Addressing PE

  • Thread starter Thread starter AnatomyGrey12
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Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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If you thought they don’t care about you guys (they don’t), they REALLY don’t care about us.
 
They just put out a survey. I’m hoping it will yield some results.

forums.studentdoctor.net

USMLE Step 2 CS cancelled for 12-18 months

USMLE Step 2 CS was suspended/cancelled. DO students are petitioning to get COMLEX Level 2 PE cancelled. Has there been any discussion about Part II CSPE? Addressing PE NBOME SUCKS they need to cancel COMLEX PE like NBME did for CS USMLE Suspending Step 2 Clinical Skills Examination Posted...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
 
call1800doctorb said:
They just put out a survey. I’m hoping it will yield some results.

forums.studentdoctor.net

USMLE Step 2 CS cancelled for 12-18 months

USMLE Step 2 CS was suspended/cancelled. DO students are petitioning to get COMLEX Level 2 PE cancelled. Has there been any discussion about Part II CSPE? Addressing PE NBOME SUCKS they need to cancel COMLEX PE like NBME did for CS USMLE Suspending Step 2 Clinical Skills Examination Posted...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
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Based on my experience with such surveys, you will likely never see the results lol.
 
call1800doctorb said:
If you thought they don’t care about you guys (they don’t), they REALLY don’t care about us.
Click to expand...
Tell us more about this exam... what do they make yall do? Do you have to look at peoples feet?
 
They’re going to have to cancel it. If you look at the cases across the country they’re getting worse nearly everywhere all due to opening up. People have returned to similiar activity by the fall this thing will be a mess. Cancel the stupid exam and don’t put us at risk.
 
This is a weird time to be alive. I hope, for the sake of humanity, that the second wave never comes or if it does, is quite mild. I am feeling more and more like this is the case as 1) we are finding out the virus wasn't really that deadly and 2) all those protests happened like 2 weeks ago (at least in my state) and we had not only no rise in cases, but still a continual drop. And I sure didn't see anyone wearing masks or social distancing there so....

But yeah. If the great thing for our country happens (no more virus) then God knows Gimpel will be on cloud 9 and this thing is 100% happening. So then you say ok well if it DOES continue to be a major public heath threat then yay! PE is cancelled but like so much of our lives and even medical education is disrupted in a way no one could have hoped for. Not to mention more people die, which is horrible. So this is all a weird catch 22 where I feel bad for hoping one thing and then I feel defeated for hoping for another. And tbh it's all Gimpel's fault and I hope he goes utterly bankrupt bc of all this
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
This is a weird time to be alive. I hope, for the sake of humanity, that the second wave never comes or if it does, is quite mild. I am feeling more and more like this is the case as 1) we are finding out the virus wasn't really that deadly and 2) all those protests happened like 2 weeks ago (at least in my state) and we had not only no rise in cases, but still a continual drop. And I sure didn't see anyone wearing masks or social distancing there so....

But yeah. If the great thing for our country happens (no more virus) then God knows Gimpel will be on cloud 9 and this thing is 100% happening. So then you say ok well if it DOES continue to be a major public heath threat then yay! PE is cancelled but like so much of our lives and even medical education is disrupted in a way no one could have hoped for. Not to mention more people die, which is horrible. So this is all a weird catch 22 where I feel bad for hoping one thing and then I feel defeated for hoping for another. And tbh it's all Gimpel's fault and I hope he goes utterly bankrupt bc of all this
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unfortunately the numbers are starting to rise again. We had 222 new cases yesterday which was the largest single day jump we had seen. This was largely due to our governors push to reopen way to soon.we believe this is the spike from Memorial Day weekend/ full reopening of our state.
 
MLNS said:
Increase in cases is most likely due to more widespread testing, increase in testing, and those with mild symptoms/ asymptotic being tested/ counted

Daily deaths, which is really the only metric that has much merit continues to drop
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Maybe in your state things are getting better but certainly not everywhere. My state and county have seen a real rise in cases, not accounted for the increased testing. Take a look at the numbers in Florida, Texas, same story. So yeah , it's hit or miss I believe

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StudentDr.A said:
unfortunately the numbers are starting to rise again. We had 222 new cases yesterday which was the largest single day jump we had seen. This was largely due to our governors push to reopen way to soon.we believe this is the spike from Memorial Day weekend/ full reopening of our state.
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I read the CDC guidelines a while back and they said there as a mean 5-day post-exposure with up to a 14-day post-exposure onset of symptoms / likelihood to become tested positive. A spike in your state now would be the result of the protests that happened 5-14 days ago, not memorial day weekend which was 3 weeks ago. This is what I was referring to, that even with the protests in my state, we still didn't get a spike and we are now 14 days post-exposure. Also deaths have been steadily decreasing to the point that you cannot really call this a public health crisis anymore, at least in my state.
 
Yeah. Overall the numbers as a country look better, but I think conditions are very region dependent really. Some better, some the same, and unfortunately some worse. It does feel though that we're at that tipping point where by becoming overconfident it can bring us back to square one. This time though states are not going to shut down their economies. I don't think we're can take another hit like that. Anyway, this is far from over, it will be interesting to see how this develops along with the flu season. I personally think (and hope I'm wrong) will be very bad.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using SDN mobile
 
Osworld said:
www.clickorlando.com

Florida governor says 260 Orlando airport workers tested positive for COVID-19. OIA says not quite

Gov. Ron DeSantis said 260 workers at a Central Florida airport have tested positive for the coronavirus after nearly 500 employees were tested.
www.clickorlando.com www.clickorlando.com

But sure let’s just all fly into the same location from all over the country and touch the same
People and stay in the same building
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I plan on licking all the toilet seats on the way too... If we are gonna do this. Might as well go balls to the wall.
 
So its clear the NBOME is too incompetent to act unless forced to act by other organizations. I feel like the next step is to have PE/CS blinded on residency apps in order to create a fair application cycle. Who is capable of making this happen?
 
What about a boycott of the PE? If we somehow convinced everyone to postpone their test, they would be overloaded next year if they attempted to have us all take it. I think our fight becomes even more pressing with infections beginning to flare up again.
 
DrRedstone said:
What about a boycott of the PE? If we somehow convinced everyone to postpone their test, they would be overloaded next year if they attempted to have us all take it. I think our fight becomes even more pressing with infections beginning to flare up again.
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I thought about this. If people just cancel their tests until next year then the NBOME would be in trouble. But it is probably a pipe dream, too many people would be scared of not getting licensed or something like that.

With cases increasing the September 1st start date is going to be in trouble.
 
TheDelOperator said:
COVID 19, 20, 21, 22,......... pick a year as there will be more pandemics in your life time and as doctors, you will be on the front line. Might as well start now. Yes, it is unfair, especially if you fail the test.
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Ah a pre-med rambling incoherent nonsense that is not at all applicable to the current situation or thread.
 
TheDelOperator said:
COVID 19, 20, 21, 22,......... pick a year as there will be more pandemics in your life time and as doctors, you will be on the front line. Might as well start now. Yes, it is unfair, especially if you fail the test.
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I think this post highlights your misunderstanding of the topic at hand. Taking an exam and thereby potentially infecting hundreds, if not thousands, of others is not "being on the front line." It's lunacy.
 
TheDelOperator said:
COVID 19, 20, 21, 22,......... pick a year as there will be more pandemics in your life time and as doctors, you will be on the front line. Might as well start now. Yes, it is unfair, especially if you fail the test.
Click to expand...
Would happily treat real patients, in fact a lot of my class volunteered at COVID testing spots in my state. However we would prefer not to travel cross country to infect/get infected by SPs, uber drivers, hotel staff, airport staff/patrons, and introduce the virus to new communities.

kinda the whole reason why we’re banned from OOS rotations and virtual interviews are being recommended through the next year
 
12jas said:
So its clear the NBOME is too incompetent to act unless forced to act by other organizations. I feel like the next step is to have PE/CS blinded on residency apps in order to create a fair application cycle. Who is capable of making this happen?
Click to expand...

This^
SOMA/USMLE meeting shone some light into the "we can't blind scores from ERAS" BS we were told in the FAQ on the NBOME website. I mean, yeah it would be wrong to blind scores if we were hiding something just because , I understand that. BUT i don't have to explain how the current circumstances point to blinding being one of the best solutions, even necessary for this cycle. NBME is talking about doing it, therefore NBOME can do it if they want! why the lies and half truths?

EDIT: we need blinding now for ERAS opening and to continue through NRMP ROL and MATCH!
 
TXKnight said:
This^
SOMA/USMLE meeting shone some light into the "we can't blind scores from ERAS" BS we were told in the FAQ on the NBOME website. I mean, yeah it would be wrong to blind scores if we were hiding something just because , I understand that. BUT i don't have to explain how the current circumstances point to blinding being one of the best solutions, even necessary for this cycle. NBME is talking about doing it, therefore NBOME can do it if they want! why the lies and half truths?

EDIT: we need blinding now for ERAS opening and to continue through NRMP ROL and MATCH!
Click to expand...
I am confused with your post...so is NBME blinding the PE/CS score? Obviously I did not attend the meeting....ECFMG just released an announcement today and in their FAQ, they mentioned all scores will be released.
 
Mochi2020 said:
I am confused with your post...so is NBME blinding the PE/CS score? Obviously I did not attend the meeting....
Click to expand...
Not...yet. The USMLE rep (Dr. Barone) specifically said they are considering blinding CS scores, and have not yet reached a decision. They never once said "we can't do that" or "ERAS guidelines prevent us from doing that".
 
qwertythrowaway said:
Not...yet. The USMLE rep (Dr. Barone) specifically said they are considering blinding CS scores, and have not yet reached a decision. They never once said "we can't do that" or "ERAS guidelines prevent us from doing that".
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This ^

Mochi2020 said:
I am confused with your post...so is NBME blinding the PE/CS score? Obviously I did not attend the meeting....ECFMG just released an announcement today and in their FAQ, they mentioned all scores will be released.
Click to expand...
I am not sure though about ECFMG. They're going about it differently than NBME/NBOME., maybe they will require CS or a modified PE for y'all but don't really know how that works
 
TXKnight said:
This ^


I am not sure though about ECFMG. They're going about it differently than NBME/NBOME., maybe they will require CS or a modified PE for y'all but don't really know how that works
Click to expand...

The latest I have seen (announced today) is as long as IMGs can prove English proficiency and meet a few other requirements they will be waiving CS requirements for them this application cycle.
 
StudentDr.A said:
The latest I have seen (announced today) is as long as IMGs can prove English proficiency and meet a few other requirements they will be waiving CS requirements for them this application cycle.
Click to expand...
Yes, and any attempts will still be released...maybe NBME already make their decision to not blind PE/CS?
 
www.ecfmg.org

Requirements for ECFMG Certification for 2022 Match

www.ecfmg.org www.ecfmg.org

Looks like IMGs will only need to pass an English proficiency test and "An authorized school official must attest to applicant’s clinical skills". This is the biggest acknowledgement of how little utility the CS/PE actually have. Also lmao that it was preferable to waive any actual clinical skills assessment for foreign grads than for the ECFMG to work out an arrangement with NBOME to administer something.

We definitely need to keep the pressure on NBOME and Gimpel. What does it say about DO schools and DO students if we are now the only ones required to take a BS clinical skills exam. By continuing to require PE the NBOME is admitting The American University of Antigua is better able to train and evaluate their students than any DO school. Keeping the exam now goes beyond inconveniencing students, risking public health and safety, and hurting residency chances, it is actually devaluing osteopathic medical education. This has to be an issue of financial solvency.
 
TheDelOperator said:
COVID 19, 20, 21, 22,......... pick a year as there will be more pandemics in your life time and as doctors, you will be on the front line. Might as well start now. Yes, it is unfair, especially if you fail the test.
Click to expand...
So.... paying money to examine fake patients equates to being on the front lines? This attitude is pitiful.
 
1. The CS/PE score needs to be blinded from residency applications.
2. We need to get the NBOME to waive the PE for the Class of 2021. This means keeping the pressure on Gimpel, contacting city officials, etc. It is so unfair for DO students in the class of 2021 to have to take the PE. My prediction is that COVID will keep getting worse and the NBOME won't be able to administer their exam starting September 1. Hopefully this will leave the NBOME with no choice but to waive the exam for the class of 2021.
 
dabo52 said:
1. The CS/PE score needs to be blinded from residency applications.
2. We need to get the NBOME to waive the PE for the Class of 2021. This means keeping the pressure on Gimpel, contacting city officials, etc. It is so unfair for DO students in the class of 2021 to have to take the PE. My prediction is that COVID will keep getting worse and the NBOME won't be able to administer their exam starting September 1. Hopefully this will leave the NBOME with no choice but to waive the exam for the class of 2021.
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if you say "you need to waive it", the NBOME/COCA/AOA will refer you to their joint statement and say "but we did!!!". we either cancel the frickin test or blind the scores. both will be painful for the NBOME, but if they are following the money trail, blinding the scores is the better move in the short term.
 
StudentDr.A said:
The latest I have seen (announced today) is as long as IMGs can prove English proficiency and meet a few other requirements they will be waiving CS requirements for them this application cycle.
Click to expand...
This makes the decision to keep PE even more asinine. It's literally a test invented to check foreign individuals' basic English and cultural competency/communication. And now they don't even have to do it?!?!
 
Neopolymath said:
This makes the decision to keep PE even more asinine. It's literally a test invented to check foreign individuals' basic English and cultural competency/communication. And now they don't even have to do it?!?!
Click to expand...
listen. we gotta do what we gotta do to protect the public.
 
dabo52 said:
1. The CS/PE score needs to be blinded from residency applications.
2. We need to get the NBOME to waive the PE for the Class of 2021. This means keeping the pressure on Gimpel, contacting city officials, etc. It is so unfair for DO students in the class of 2021 to have to take the PE. My prediction is that COVID will keep getting worse and the NBOME won't be able to administer their exam starting September 1. Hopefully this will leave the NBOME with no choice but to waive the exam for the class of 2021.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of the above, however, I don't think the NBOME is going to budge. I think they are realizing they are on the way out. With SOMA pushing for a unified licensing exam and already meeting with the NBME who are in full support I think its just a matter of time. Also I think regardless of the COVID situation in September they plan to push forward with exams. Look at the rhetoric they have released. We are "working with infectious disease experts to make sure we can administer the exam safely" or "if you don't feel safe you can choose to take it a later date" they are shirking all responsibility by saying oh well you can just not take it until later. They even said that they thought they could administer the exam JULY 1 (which shows a complete disconnect with the current situation) the only reason they pushed back more is because we blew up on them and landed some negative PR. The people at the NBOME are not going to be giving up their fat salaries paid for by our student loans. Bottom line they don't have the funds to survive without administering the PE which means they will continue to fight for it as if their jobs depend on it because likely they do.
 
Neopolymath said:
This makes the decision to keep PE even more asinine. It's literally a test invented to check foreign individuals' basic English and cultural competency/communication. And now they don't even have to do it?!?!
Click to expand...
Yep it’s a racist test
 
unknownDO said:
I agree for the most part. At the same time, I would NOT be surprised if they're simply too delusional/stupid to understand this situation.
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My suspicion is their stance is rooted in financial inability/greed, and they’ve convinced themselves the rest of the logistics (public health/timing/eras issues) are gonna be okay in order to feel less guilt regarding their stance. As time goes on they just dig their hole deeper and put on their “everything's okay” earmuffs and delve farther and farther from reality.
 
Scrubs101 said:
My suspicion is their stance is rooted in financial inability/greed, and they’ve convinced themselves the rest of the logistics (public health/timing/eras issues) are gonna be okay in order to feel less guilt regarding their stance. As time goes on they just dig their hole deeper and put on their “everything's okay” earmuffs and delve farther and farther from reality.
Click to expand...

With how things are going it wouldn’t surprise me if they have to push back from September anyway. They told schools they were getting approval to give the test on July 1, which obviously didn’t happen. I’m not sure that was because students complained.

The further this goes on the more and more it becomes clear that they really aren’t capable of making unbiased decisions. The SOMA resolution is a good start.

I’m convinced this is the hill they die on. Give it a few more years and they won’t exist anymore, and that will be tied directly to how they handled this.

I mean DOs are now the ONLY residency applicants that have to take a clinical skills exam lol, which basically says, “our schools are crap and we don’t think they give good clinical training.”
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
...I mean DOs are now the ONLY residency applicants that have to take a clinical skills exam lol, which basically says, “our schools are crap and we don’t think they give good clinical training.”
Click to expand...

They're afraid we'll give too much zen during CV4 and blow up the patients 4th ventricle
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
I'll post the emails again...

jgimpel@nbome.org - CEO NBOME
[email protected] - NBOME's lawyer
[email protected] - Director or Clinical Testing (i guess the PE person)

I found all these via a google search. Nothing sketchy or anything. Email them, let them know how you feel. Might not be a bad idea to use a non school email though lol.
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Proceed with caution w gimpel because I believe someone on here emailed him and it did not seem like it turned out well.
 
Mochi2020 said:
Proceed with caution w gimpel because I believe someone on here emailed him and it did not seem like it turned out well.
Click to expand...

Yeah. But i think he used his school email. Use a yahoo or gmail account with no trace back to your name or school.
 
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