Annoyed

[no-see-um]

I went to an Ivy League school, where seemingly everyone I knew went on to become doctors and successful in business, etc. It really does help in terms of having contacts at some of the best hospitals in the country and with some of the best businesses (biotech), there are. Some of my friends were sons and daughters of politicians, high ranking officers, etc. It really does make a difference when you have a network. Granted, that could happen at other schools, but I ascribe my success in pharmacy school to my college education. And it does make a difference even in finding interesting pharmacy gigs... It may or may not mean higher earnings, but there's job satisfaction there. It's all what you make of it...

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[evilolive]

Oh well... I guess that's why I haven't made it very far... I didn't go to Michigan..

I never said that's why you are the way you are or made any other personal attribution. I'm saying it's why I am the way I am.

 

[pharmacogenomic]

I never said that's why you are the way you are or made any other personal attribution. I'm saying it's why I am the way I am.

Ignore him! He's probably stuck in some god-forsaken city sorting out the financials of why some hospital has ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin & moxifloxacin all on the formulary and trying to figure out why there is no ID pharmacist on staff......

That would make anybody short-tempered.

And, remember - he's an SC grad - you've got to give him some slack..

j/king

 

[soyroger]

BTW, George W. Bush went to Yale.

You just proved that going to a prestigious school and having great contacts can get you into great places despite being a bumbling idiot. Here's my favorite quote from the native English speaker who should be taking language lessons from my Austrian born governor:

"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised.

Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.

Okay, better? I'll keep working on it." Accessed at The White House website.


What happened next was obvious...laughter, but I'm sure plenty of people were crying too.

Anyway, back to the OP's original topic, it's still annoying when people try to brag or put themselves above their peers b/c of where they went to school. Letting your elitism shine through is a great way to distance yourself from those who would otherwise enjoy your company. But...maybe that's what you're going for in life. I did have a roommate at UCD like that (now a UOP dental student whose heart was set on UCSF).

 

[rphchase]

[

 

[rphchase]

This may seem like a pretentious defense, but I feel compelled to provide an alternative perspective to what many of you have written.

The notion of the "best schools" comes from having one of the most competitive applicants compiled together with the credo and resources of a major research institution. A lot schools have different focuses and visions of pharmacy - some schools treat students as a mill for retail, while others focus greatly on patient care and other various clinical applications; it's no secret. The resources that one can get at a major research university naturally shapes the types of students that the school selects for, as well as what the students can utilize during while under that program's tutelage. Some of our professors are of the very best minds and the actual creators of many ideas and concepts laid forth in academia. To be able to peak through and see how they have helped to change the profession and science is something that often draws them to universities to do research and find other like-minded individuals. To sit down with them and have coffee or even get an internship by getting to know these well connected individuals is invaluable. Again, this brings up the ubiquitous theme of resource access.

While it may not matter where you went to school when applying for a job at CVS, when it comes down to applying for highly desirable residency programs, academia, or perhaps industry experience - the name provides the much needed foot in the door to applicants. This is not to say that students from so-called "lower" universities cannot achieve the same result and that no students of comparable quality attend these institutions, but the point I'm trying to make lies in highlighting the fact that the average quality of students from "higher" schools tends to be more visible.

I can only guess that you attend one of these "higher" schools - maybe not but, really, who cares? When/if you graduate in 2011, and when/if you ever get to actually practice pharmacy, I am sure that you will find that regardless of where you went to school, you will be humbled many times over during the course of your career. I've known many pharmacists from all ranks of schools who have been very successful in research, academia and other types of pharmacy practice. As far as residencies go....I have been privy to the selection process for some programs and can tell you first hand that it is much like the selection for entrance into pharmacy school. A lot of it is based upon grades, extracurriculars, motivation, and letters of recommend. Things that can/have been achieved across the board at institutions of all rankings. So, riding the coat tails of an institution's good name does not make for a quality individual or professional. It does not make someone more of a creator, or more competent. Hopefully you will figure this out before 2011 and not be too distraught if you don't get accepted into a residency program, or get passed up for that really prestigious position even though you are one of those students from a "higher" school with more visibilty.

 

[PharmDstudent]

This may seem like a pretentious defense, but I feel compelled to provide an alternative perspective to what many of you have written.

The notion of the "best schools" comes from having one of the most competitive applicants compiled together with the credo and resources of a major research institution. A lot schools have different focuses and visions of pharmacy - some schools treat students as a mill for retail, while others focus greatly on patient care and other various clinical applications; it's no secret. The resources that one can get at a major research university naturally shapes the types of students that the school selects for, as well as what the students can utilize during while under that program's tutelage. Some of our professors are of the very best minds and the actual creators of many ideas and concepts laid forth in academia. To be able to peak through and see how they have helped to change the profession and science is something that often draws them to universities to do research and find other like-minded individuals. To sit down with them and have coffee or even get an internship by getting to know these well connected individuals is invaluable. Again, this brings up the ubiquitous theme of resource access.

While it may not matter where you went to school when applying for a job at CVS, when it comes down to applying for highly desirable residency programs, academia, or perhaps industry experience - the name provides the much needed foot in the door to applicants. This is not to say that students from so-called "lower" universities cannot achieve the same result and that no students of comparable quality attend these institutions, but the point I'm trying to make lies in highlighting the fact that the average quality of students from "higher" schools tends to be more visible.

I think you have a very limited perspective. It would in your best interest to speak to different residency programs before you make these assertions.

When I called about a PGY2 residency in pharmacy administration, one of the first questions the coordinator asked me was, "What kind of experience do you have in hospital pharmacy?". I told him that I had worked at a hospital for a while until I became an intern. He wanted to know what type of system the pharmacy was using. I told him it was Cerner. He replies, "Oh, they were the first hospital to implement that system." I had no idea, so that was news to me.
He also wanted to know why I was interested in a residency in that particular state. After he asked me where I went to school, we never talked about schools again! I don't even know where he got his BS or PharmD.

I have since decided that I don't want to do a residency after I graduate. I want to pursue an additional advanced degree, perhaps a MHA or DDS, but of course, it will all depend on how the GRE and the DAT go. My future also depends on the state of New Orleans. It has nothing to do with the ranking of my pharmacy school.

 

[PharmDstudent]

This may seem like a pretentious defense, but I feel compelled to provide an alternative perspective to what many of you have written.

The notion of the "best schools" comes from having one of the most competitive applicants compiled together with the credo and resources of a major research institution. A lot schools have different focuses and visions of pharmacy - some schools treat students as a mill for retail, while others focus greatly on patient care and other various clinical applications; it's no secret. The resources that one can get at a major research university naturally shapes the types of students that the school selects for, as well as what the students can utilize during while under that program's tutelage. Some of our professors are of the very best minds and the actual creators of many ideas and concepts laid forth in academia. To be able to peak through and see how they have helped to change the profession and science is something that often draws them to universities to do research and find other like-minded individuals. To sit down with them and have coffee or even get an internship by getting to know these well connected individuals is invaluable. Again, this brings up the ubiquitous theme of resource access.

While it may not matter where you went to school when applying for a job at CVS, when it comes down to applying for highly desirable residency programs, academia, or perhaps industry experience - the name provides the much needed foot in the door to applicants. This is not to say that students from so-called "lower" universities cannot achieve the same result and that no students of comparable quality attend these institutions, but the point I'm trying to make lies in highlighting the fact that the average quality of students from "higher" schools tends to be more visible.

I think you have a very limited perspective. It would in your best interest to speak to the coordinators of different residency programs before you make these assertions.

When I called about a PGY2 residency in pharmacy administration, one of the first questions the coordinator asked me was, "What kind of experience do you have in hospital pharmacy?". I told him that I had worked at a hospital for a while until I became an intern. He wanted to know what type of system the pharmacy was using. I told him it was Cerner. He replies, "Oh, they were the first hospital to implement that system." I had no idea, so that was news to me.
He also wanted to know why I was interested in a residency in that particular state. After he asked me where I went to school, we never talked about schools again! I don't even know where he got his BS or PharmD.

I have since decided that I don't want to do a residency after I graduate. I want to pursue an additional advanced degree, perhaps a MHA or DDS, but of course, it will all depend on how the GRE and the DAT go. My future also depends on the state of New Orleans. It has nothing to do with the ranking of my pharmacy school.

 

[Hels2007]

If I were getting an artificial heart or neurosurgery, I would want my doctor to have gone to Harvard

Then, for your family's sake, I hope you don't need that for a long long time and hopefully get more mature by that point. I would want someone who does them very often, and with a good track record, regardless of where they went to school. A surgeon who is stellar and went to the greatest school but who has only done this procedure once or twice has a far lesser probability of good outcome.

And yes, I do, and I will get far. The same goes with my collegiate network. I will eventually be a fantastic clinician, but I know where to pay my dues. The reason why I say this is because I see it happen all the time.

You know, it's rather amusing to read your posts in this thread - coming from a first-year pharmacy student, that sounds precocious, to say the least.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

It's like that time I went to the Dave and Busters in Philadelphia and beat the living **** out of this group MIT students at trivia. They looked at the hick with a funny accent in a green John Deere "Country Boy" hoodie and a "West Virginia" cap and thought they had some automatic tickets coming their way. Ha. It' was *I* that walked away with the customized "D&B Philly" coffee cups and t-shirt bought with the 2000+ tickets I took them for.

Through my wife, I have run into several Ivy League students (there's about 4 bazillion of them in the NJ/Philly area...). I've never really been able to tell the difference between them and the typical (serious) WVU student from an intellectual angle. Maybe my friends around Mo'town are just smarter than they should be.

 

[evilolive]

I would want someone who does them very often, and with a good track record, regardless of where they went to school. A surgeon who is stellar and went to the greatest school but who has only done this procedure once or twice has a far lesser probability of good outcome.

You know, it's rather amusing to read your posts in this thread - coming from a first-year pharmacy student, that sounds precocious, to say the least.

Honestly, that's a very naive comparison/hypothetical. Anyone who went to the very best medical schools with the best surgical residencies will be very qualified. If you had the choice between getting experimental or highly risky heart surgery at your local hospital or at Johns Hopkins, would you place your faith on this principle? Also, a perspective to the wisdom is best argument: it is your intellect and your ingenuity that gives you the ability to build your experience, not the other way around.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

Honestly, that's a very naive comparison/hypothetical. Anyone who went to the very best medical schools with the best surgical residencies will be very qualified. If you had the choice between getting experimental or highly risky heart surgery at your local hospital or at Johns Hopkins, would you place your faith on this principle?

If I had time to spare, I would do the legwork for you, but I am sure your Ivy-League caliber brain is capable of doing Medline and Cochrane review on its own to see that the outcomes are better at the places that do procedures regularly rather than at places that do one or two a year - REGARDLESS of the overall caliber of the institution. Hint: look for cardiac procedures. Another hint: eosinophilic esophagitis.

Kid, do some research before kissing the ground labeled with some big name, will ya? Though after reading you, I think I can understand better where my students' off the wall answers in drug lit evaluation came from...

 

[evilolive]

If I had time to spare, I would do the legwork for you, but I am sure your Ivy-League caliber brain is capable of doing Medline and Cochrane review on its own to see that the outcomes are better at the places that do procedures regularly rather than at places that do one or two a year - REGARDLESS of the overall caliber of the institution. Hint: look for cardiac procedures. Another hint: eosinophilic esophagitis.

Kid, do some research before kissing the ground labeled with some big name, will ya? Though after reading you, I think I can understand better where my students' off the wall answers in drug lit evaluation came from...

I never disputed the fact that experience isn't valuable - in fact, I agree with you completely. I would be an idiot to believe otherwise; it's the fact that you build your OWN experiences from your own abilities. If you aren't very capable to begin with, your experience means nothing. Idiots don't become the best cardiologists in the world at Johns Hopkins. The institution inherently gives that ability to test its residents to obtain this experience and become world class physicians.

 

[Hels2007]

Honestly, that's a very naive comparison/hypothetical. Anyone who went to the very best medical schools with the best surgical residencies will be very qualified. If you had the choice between getting experimental or highly risky heart surgery at your local hospital or at Johns Hopkins, would you place your faith on this principle? Also, a perspective to the wisdom is best argument: it is your intellect and your ingenuity that gives you the ability to build your experience, not the other way around.

Seeing as a few of my friends are surgeons, it's experience that counts. Yeah, you may have been trained a few years/decades back - but if you haven't done that surgery since, it doesn't mean a thing. You've already been pointed towards meta-analyses and systematic reviews on subject.

But believe that you will. Just drop me a note when your crystal world crashes on the hard ass of reality. Thanks, bye.

It's rather cute when newbies realize that world isn't quite like their teachers told them. Observing that is my guilty pleasure.

 

[evilolive]

Seeing as a few of my friends are surgeons, it's experience that counts. Yeah, you may have been trained a few years/decades back - but if you haven't done that surgery since, it doesn't mean a thing. You've already been pointed towards meta-analyses and systematic reviews on subject.

But believe that you will. Just drop me a note when your crystal world crashes on the hard ass of reality. Thanks, bye.

It's rather cute when newbies realize that world isn't quite like their teachers told them. Observing that is my guilty pleasure.

I am believing in what I will, and I do agree with you! I just didn't agree with your surgery analogy because I thought it was absurd in premise.

I can only guess that you attend one of these "higher" schools - maybe not but, really, who cares? When/if you graduate in 2011, and when/if you ever get to actually practice pharmacy

I hope your school does not teach its students that everyone will kiss the ground they walk on because they went to U of M. Adjust the attitude before you get out of school and that will get you far.

If you think being a U of M alumni is going to get you far because of your network... oh never mind.

And when you die and people come to mourn you. Is it really important they say:

We come to mourn evilolive, Phi Bet kappa at an Elite University. I think they will talk about the kind of person you were, the life you lived and things you accomplished. Were you a good person? Did you love? Were you loved. This is what is really important in life.

Oh well... I guess that's why I haven't made it very far... I didn't go to Michigan..


Hopefully you will figure this out before 2011 and not be too distraught if you don't get accepted into a residency program, or get passed up for that really prestigious position even though you are one of those students from a "higher" school with more visibilty.

Upon further rereading of all the posts in this thread, everyone has made only personal attacks without any legitimate counter arguments. One after another you all sink your teeth into my persona because I'm defending an unpopular opinion - is there any reasoning or direct response to my arguments, or do you all have to make ill-fated predictions about how I will fail miserably in the future? There are many disagreements, but every response has been a red herring or some referral to an irrational or irrelevent example. If you cannot separate your personal beliefs from hypotheticals and supposition (or understand quite frankly what I'm writing), that's not my fault. Don't attack me because you can't defend yourself. I realize the tone of my posts are harshly analytical with the flare of arrogance, but they are well thought out, logical points. I do not allow my feelings to cloud my analysis in the debate. I would ask you seasoned "professionals" to do the same. There, I said it - my first personal attribution in this thread.

 

[rphchase]

I am believing in what I will, and I do agree with you! I just didn't agree with your surgery analogy because I thought it was absurd in premise.




Upon further rereading of all the posts in this thread, everyone has made only personal attacks without any legitimate counter arguments. One after another you all sink your teeth into my persona because I'm defending an unpopular opinion - is there any reasoning or direct response to my arguments, or do you all have to make ill-fated predictions about how I will fail miserably in the future? There are many disagreements, but every response has been a red herring or some referral to an irrational or irrelevent example. If you cannot separate your personal beliefs from hypotheticals and supposition (or understand quite frankly what I'm writing), that's not my fault. Don't attack me because you can't defend yourself. I realize the tone of my posts are harshly analytical with the flare of arrogance, but they are well thought out, logical points. I do not allow my feelings to cloud my analysis in the debate. I would ask you seasoned "professionals" to do the same. There, I said it - my first personal attribution in this thread.

Compared to you - we are seasoned professionals. And....to imply that we do not understand what you are writing is quite arrogant and insulting. In spite of what you may believe, you are not the only intelligent person in these forums. You, my dear, are in for a very rude awakening because it is quite obvious you have no people skills and, therefore, will fail miserably in the world of pharmacy. It takes much more than well thought out, logical points, and big words, to be successful in this business - regardless of which type of pharmacy you hope to pursue. I am sure that you think your posts are quite impressive - believe what you want - but based upon everyone else's posts it should be quite clear to you that the only thing that is impressive is how big of an idiot you really are. So, in the middle of all your higher life form thinking try to find, and use, some common sense when you are trying to figure out why it is that people are "attacking" you. It shouldn't be that difficult if you are as smart as you think you are.

 

[rphchase]

Oh well... I guess that's why I haven't made it very far... I didn't go to Michigan..

You crack me up! Well said Epic.

 

[Old Timer]

Upon further rereading of all the posts in this thread, everyone has made only personal attacks without any legitimate counter arguments. One after another you all sink your teeth into my persona because I'm defending an unpopular opinion - is there any reasoning or direct response to my arguments, or do you all have to make ill-fated predictions about how I will fail miserably in the future?

The attacks should not be personal. If you feel that when you sum up your life it is less important to be a good person who was loved and gave love in return rather than a Phi Beta Kappa at an elite university, than our core values are different and readers can decide for themselves what is more important for them.

You however, demean others, by implication, who do not attend elite universities because they could not possibly have the intellect or the training to match you. Think about what you are saying. You also demean those who work for CVS or in retail, because you must be less of a pharmacist to work retail. Community pharmacists interact with their patients and make their lives better every day, regardless of where they went to school.

I maintain, you are not defined by where you go to college. You are defined only by the limits of your abilities and your determination to succeed and make the most of the ability God gave you....

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This thread is hilarious.

 

[pharmacogenomic]

The attacks should not be personal. If you feel that when you sum up your life it is less important to be a good person who was loved and gave love in return rather than a Phi Beta Kappa at an elite university, than our core values are different and readers can decide for themselves what is more important for them.

You however, demean others, by implication, who do not attend elite universities because they could not possibly have the intellect or the training to match you. Think about what you are saying. You also demean those who work for CVS or in retail, because you must be less of a pharmacist to work retail. Community pharmacists interact with their patients and make their lives better every day, regardless of where they went to school.

I maintain, you are not defined by where you go to college. You are defined only by the limits of your abilities and your determination to succeed and make the most of the ability God gave you....

I've been reading this thread for a few days & found this one to be particularly absurd & a moment to stop & pause.

First, Old Timer, you indicate rightly so the attacks should not be personal. However, you go on to make them so by indicating eviolive has demeaned others - particularly your own personal sensitivity to CVS & retail in general.

She is did nothing more than I did - & I'm about as seasoned as they come!

I stand behind her assertions, however narrow they might be in her career. I've expanded on them in broader terms.

However, when I read back, she has been very inclusive of all students of pharmacy. She indicated that students of "average" schools tend to be less visible, although they can acheive the same results.

That was exactly my point a page or two ago.

rpchase - calling someone an idiot is nonproductive & unprofessional. You lost any point you were trying to make right there.

Industry - you don't have a clue what kind of stuff comes from your posts which borders on "disclosure" & if you are indeed teaching pharmaceutical lit eval. you would see she is not talking about outcomes - she is talking about qualifications. If YOU did the research, you would indeed know that high positive outcomes correlate with variables far beyond physician background. You & I could debate medical education, but I must admit I'm learning about it since it extends far, far beyond residency & involves funding which is entirely different from that which supports pharmaceutical industry funding. I'm curious how you got so qualified.......I live within 30 miles of 2 transplant hospitals & the funding is complicated, intricate & based on numbers, professional "ties, university records & support, etc. I also have a child in the medical education field & their evaluatory experiences are far, far different from ours. Acceptances as FELLOWS (not residents) is based on where the individual did their training & who they trained under, among other things. We are speaking of medical education here - none of which any of us know well. However, as an advisor, mentor or whatever else they call you now....being demeaning to a first year student who really does not probably know literature research techniques very well does not speak highly of you - particulary if your own students say the same thing even after you teaching it.

Same for you Hels - outcomes is an entirely differerent story from qualifications. The real life reality is the individuals with good qualifications will gravitate to places with good money (NIH, etc) which will promote a program with high n's so they get good outcomes. One does indeed follow another. Your points also follow with a bit of a "dig" to a first year student - is that really what you want as an advisor/mentor???

I'd challenge either of you to give me an example of having to have a significant & serious procedure done without knowing exactly who & where your physician trained. I have - with my husband who underwent a surgery which had only been done by 3 surgeons in the US. The surgery had only been done 24 times before. Two neurorsurgeons recommended the 3 & gave us their credentials - yep - all the way back to where they went to medical school. Outcomes, from a surgery are as much dependent on the facility as on the surgeon. However, technique is dependent on the skill of the surgeon.

Why do you think there is a Genentech bulding on the UCSF campus & not at Tuoruo? Qualified professors, bring in high quality research, brings in big money, brings in large research, brings in big opportunities for students, attracts students who are interested - technique & the possibility of what can be done with that technique. Now, what they do with that technique is indeed based on the individual.

Evilolive may have not expressed it very well & may have stepped on a few toes along the way. But, frankly, some of you have embarrassed me with your admonishments to her. She is indeed idealistic. Welll - that is exactly what we need. Idealism.

Frankly, Old Timer, I don't need your thoughts on love & being loved. And - I'm really getting tired of your references to God. They may be significant to you in your career, but your concept of it is not in mine & frankly, I choose not to share my personal thoughts on that here.

I feel it should be kept to a minimum & only addressed when moral or ethical situations are brought up. Beyond that, they becomer offensive to me.

The reality is - evilolive & I disagree with the rest of you. Some of you have gone on & done very well with the education provided to you or the one you sought. Some of you haven't. The same holds true for some of my own classmates & I come from one of the very best schools in the nation. Yep - I'll say it again - I come from one of the best. I'm proud of that, have a whole load of accomplishments & history to look back on. But, I've also had the pleasure of working with lots of people from all over the country - so I know mine is not the only one of the best. I do know there are a lot who are not one of the best, however! That only makes it harder for the student who might want to go farther - as was said by evilolive & myself.

But, it would improve the entire tone & course of this thread if you all agreed to disagree. Be the best pharmacist you can or want to be. Beyond that, leave the first year student alone, particularly with the negative comments to her &/or her lack of experience. I feel this first hand since a few months ago I want put in my place time & again because I have lots & lots of experience - which all the advisors/moderators/mentors - whomever spoke up & said my experiencre meant nothing. That was as ridiculous now as it was then.

I have to agree with WVU - this thread is hilarious - if only it weren't so sad......

 

[All4MyDaughter]

This thread is hilarious.

I have to agree. The hubris (on both sides of the debate) is quite striking (and funny)!

 

[evilolive]

You, my dear, are in for a very rude awakening because it is quite obvious you have no people skills and, therefore, will fail miserably in the world of pharmacy. It takes much more than well thought out, logical points, and big words, to be successful in this business - regardless of which type of pharmacy you hope to pursue. I am sure that you think your posts are quite impressive - believe what you want - but based upon everyone else's posts it should be quite clear to you that the only thing that is impressive is how big of an idiot you really are. So, in the middle of all your higher life form thinking try to find, and use, some common sense when you are trying to figure out why it is that people are "attacking" you. It shouldn't be that difficult if you are as smart as you think you are.

*laugh* Well then, what else do I need? I've got my smarts and my education, but I have something else that is so much more important. If you met me in real life you would find that I have an extremely strong sense of loyalty and devotion to those I care about and empathy to those that are suffering. Why would I spend so much time in a profession dedicated to helping others if all i cared about was myself and my superior plane of existence? I strive to seek the very best schools and mentors because I believe that the heart of these institutions can help me be a better clinician so I can save lives. Believing in this cause must make me and others like me at UCSF and friendly institutions idiots. And yes, I dare say that my posts ARE impressive because I objectively uphold and defend my beliefs without being reasonably convinced by any arguments that you and your compatriots have brought forth. I am proud of what I say and represent, and I make no concessions thus far.

In response to the general opposition: I am not a supporter of maintaining status quo, especially if I have the ability to help bring change to the profession. I'm an idealist; please don't shatter my dreams just yet. You appeal to the majority opinion of other angry opinions here, but I reject that argument because I strongly stand by my convictions - not that I dare to say that I'm anywhere near the stature of Rosa Parks, but I refuse to sit at the back of the bus because everyone told me to or because someone told me that's the way things are and that they'll never change; the profession of Pharmacy is conservative in nature until a small group of progressives manage to convince the field as a whole to make change. I had a small taste of this at the Midyear Regional Meeting with APhA-ASP and found the experience to be disheartening as to how powerful opposition voices are to clinically progressive legislation and how politics is (are?) always involved.

To practice what I am currently learning in pharmacy care 101, it appears to me that you are very upset because of what I am saying to you. And to that, I'm sorry that you are upset. I understand why you are attacking me, as you are confused as to the overall message of what I am trying to convey. Please reread my posts while not mad.

You however, demean others, by implication, who do not attend elite universities because they could not possibly have the intellect or the training to match you. Think about what you are saying. You also demean those who work for CVS or in retail, because you must be less of a pharmacist to work retail. Community pharmacists interact with their patients and make their lives better every day, regardless of where they went to school.

Please show me exactly where I said or implied this, because I can't find it.

I have to agree. The hubris (on both sides of the debate) is quite striking (and funny)!

I'm glad you're enjoying yourselves! Anything to bring more readers and opinions to constructive discussion and trading of ideas.


Pharmacogenomic, I owe you a big hug. Being a huge target gets lonely sometimes.

 

[Ndcyciv]

Well I guess I opened a big cans of worms with my original rant here. I apologize, but I was getting frustrated. I didn't realize that in other parts of the country, where you go means alot. Here in my little state of only 2 pharmacy schools, it really doesn't matter. But on the other hand, we are not up to the 21st century in how far advance pharmacy is. (Hey my hospital just barely went to the floors to be "clinical")

Maybe I'm gluten for punishment, but what makes a prestigious, "ivy league caliber" education? I went to a school with a year-round curriculum and usually runs about 1500 applicants per year for 140 seats. However, I'm totally in the dark at what a prestigious school is. I just went to school as a matter of convenience and that it was 10 miles from my house.

Sorry if I'm opening another can of worms.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Here's your problem....you're dealing with, like, way too many people that think they are the most brilliant sons of bitches to ever walk the Earth. You are going to get the most biased-assed responses possible by asking something along these lines. All we need now is that one JPHazelton douchebag to come on here and ramble on about how unprestigious every school is - then we will have officially have created the most pompous pissing match in the history of mankind, apekind, alienkind, ****ing whateverkind......ever.

This thread is so stupid that it's entertaining. It really isn't that far off of Jerry Springer. Next thing you know, we're going to find out that Old Timer is pissed at evilolive for cheating on his quadriplegic brother with a circus midget or something.

 

[evilolive]

Here's your problem....you're dealing with, like, way too many people that think they are the most brilliant sons of bitches to ever walk the Earth. You are going to get the most biased-assed responses possible by asking something along these lines. All we need now is that one JPHazelton douchebag to come on here and ramble on about how unprestigious every school is - then we will have officially have created the most pompous pissing match in the history of mankind, apekind, alienkind, ****ing whateverkind......ever.

This thread is so stupid that it's entertaining. It really isn't that far off of Jerry Springer. Next thing you know, we're going to find out that Old Timer is pissed at evilolive for cheating on his quadriplegic brother with a circus midget or something.

haha

Well I guess I opened a big cans of worms with my original rant here. I apologize, but I was getting frustrated. I didn't realize that in other parts of the country, where you go means alot. Here in my little state of only 2 pharmacy schools, it really doesn't matter. But on the other hand, we are not up to the 21st century in how far advance pharmacy is. (Hey my hospital just barely went to the floors to be "clinical")

Maybe I'm gluten for punishment, but what makes a prestigious, "ivy league caliber" education? I went to a school with a year-round curriculum and usually runs about 1500 applicants per year for 140 seats. However, I'm totally in the dark at what a prestigious school is. I just went to school as a matter of convenience and that it was 10 miles from my house.

Sorry if I'm opening another can of worms.

The ivy league itself is a historical sports conference of private universities that have become extremely selective for undergraduate and graduate programs. There are various other public and private colleges of similar quality that are also a part of this academic circle, most of which pride themselves on having strong research programs that have a lot of research money, professors, and students trailing behind high power academics. In terms of a "good" pharmacy school, it's all highly subjective in what you're looking for, but any major research oriented institution that has a lot of grants and famous professors typically would be categorized as such. There is a ranking by US news, but it only tracks research dollars and is meaningless in microscopic analysis; it only gives you an idea of how respected the institutions are from research and perceptual strength of graduates coming out of the institution as measured by deans from other pharmacy institutions.

 

[Epic]

Oh what the hell...

So I fly around the country first class..consulting on some prestigious medical centers and some not so prestigious.. And I have power lunches and dinners with hospital administrators and drug companies. And when I talk..people listen..and drug reps lose jobs.. How dare you students and pharmists look directly at me..or dare talk to me.

I'm mightier than thou! And I will only hire pharmacists with IVY league education!! There are pharmist schools in Ivy league..right?

Now I gotta get dressed...I have a power dinner with someone important. I can't keep the limo driver waiting too long.. I hear his brother in law's neighbor's childhood friend went to Darmouth pharmacy school...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm glad you're enjoying yourselves! Anything to bring more readers and opinions to constructive discussion and trading of ideas.

I like a good discussion as well as the next person. I just think that the preening and puffing in this thread is hilarious.

Oh what the hell...

So I fly around the country first class..consulting on some prestigious medical centers and some not so prestigious.. And I have power lunches and dinners with hospital administrators and drug companies. And when I talk..people listen..and drug reps lose jobs.. How dare you students and pharmists look directly at me..or dare talk to me.

I'm mightier than thou! And I will only hire pharmacists with IVY league education!! There are pharmist schools in Ivy league..right?

Now I gotta get dressed...I have a power dinner with someone important. I can't keep the limo driver waiting too long.. I hear his brother in law's neighbor's childhood friend went to Darmouth pharmacy school...

Pssht. That's nothing. My daughter already has an acceptance to Princeton Medical School and she's not even 4 yet.

 

[Epic]

You crack me up! Well said Epic.

How am I funny to you...

Not Work Safe - Language

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twW_riHWz_4[/youtube]

 

[WVUPharm2007]

My wife had Princeton begging her to come to their school, but she went to WVU instead....ha.....

 

[rphchase]

I've been reading this thread for a few days & found this one to be particularly absurd & a moment to stop & pause.

First, Old Timer, you indicate rightly so the attacks should not be personal. However, you go on to make them so by indicating eviolive has demeaned others - particularly your own personal sensitivity to CVS & retail in general.

She is did nothing more than I did - & I'm about as seasoned as they come!

I stand behind her assertions, however narrow they might be in her career. I've expanded on them in broader terms.

However, when I read back, she has been very inclusive of all students of pharmacy. She indicated that students of "average" schools tend to be less visible, although they can acheive the same results.

That was exactly my point a page or two ago.

rpchase - calling someone an idiot is nonproductive & unprofessional. You lost any point you were trying to make right there.

Industry - you don't have a clue what kind of stuff comes from your posts which borders on "disclosure" & if you are indeed teaching pharmaceutical lit eval. you would see she is not talking about outcomes - she is talking about qualifications. If YOU did the research, you would indeed know that high positive outcomes correlate with variables far beyond physician background. You & I could debate medical education, but I must admit I'm learning about it since it extends far, far beyond residency & involves funding which is entirely different from that which supports pharmaceutical industry funding. I'm curious how you got so qualified.......I live within 30 miles of 2 transplant hospitals & the funding is complicated, intricate & based on numbers, professional "ties, university records & support, etc. I also have a child in the medical education field & their evaluatory experiences are far, far different from ours. Acceptances as FELLOWS (not residents) is based on where the individual did their training & who they trained under, among other things. We are speaking of medical education here - none of which any of us know well. However, as an advisor, mentor or whatever else they call you now....being demeaning to a first year student who really does not probably know literature research techniques very well does not speak highly of you - particulary if your own students say the same thing even after you teaching it.

Same for you Hels - outcomes is an entirely differerent story from qualifications. The real life reality is the individuals with good qualifications will gravitate to places with good money (NIH, etc) which will promote a program with high n's so they get good outcomes. One does indeed follow another. Your points also follow with a bit of a "dig" to a first year student - is that really what you want as an advisor/mentor???

I'd challenge either of you to give me an example of having to have a significant & serious procedure done without knowing exactly who & where your physician trained. I have - with my husband who underwent a surgery which had only been done by 3 surgeons in the US. The surgery had only been done 24 times before. Two neurorsurgeons recommended the 3 & gave us their credentials - yep - all the way back to where they went to medical school. Outcomes, from a surgery are as much dependent on the facility as on the surgeon. However, technique is dependent on the skill of the surgeon.

Why do you think there is a Genentech bulding on the UCSF campus & not at Tuoruo? Qualified professors, bring in high quality research, brings in big money, brings in large research, brings in big opportunities for students, attracts students who are interested - technique & the possibility of what can be done with that technique. Now, what they do with that technique is indeed based on the individual.

Evilolive may have not expressed it very well & may have stepped on a few toes along the way. But, frankly, some of you have embarrassed me with your admonishments to her. She is indeed idealistic. Welll - that is exactly what we need. Idealism.

Frankly, Old Timer, I don't need your thoughts on love & being loved. And - I'm really getting tired of your references to God. They may be significant to you in your career, but your concept of it is not in mine & frankly, I choose not to share my personal thoughts on that here.

I feel it should be kept to a minimum & only addressed when moral or ethical situations are brought up. Beyond that, they becomer offensive to me.

The reality is - evilolive & I disagree with the rest of you. Some of you have gone on & done very well with the education provided to you or the one you sought. Some of you haven't. The same holds true for some of my own classmates & I come from one of the very best schools in the nation. Yep - I'll say it again - I come from one of the best. I'm proud of that, have a whole load of accomplishments & history to look back on. But, I've also had the pleasure of working with lots of people from all over the country - so I know mine is not the only one of the best. I do know there are a lot who are not one of the best, however! That only makes it harder for the student who might want to go farther - as was said by evilolive & myself.

But, it would improve the entire tone & course of this thread if you all agreed to disagree. Be the best pharmacist you can or want to be. Beyond that, leave the first year student alone, particularly with the negative comments to her &/or her lack of experience. I feel this first hand since a few months ago I want put in my place time & again because I have lots & lots of experience - which all the advisors/moderators/mentors - whomever spoke up & said my experiencre meant nothing. That was as ridiculous now as it was then.

I have to agree with WVU - this thread is hilarious - if only it weren't so sad......

It is a sad thread - and it's sad because eviloive has elected to insult others in her profession. Does not matter that she is a first year student - she is a first year student in a professional program and should know better than as to insult possible/future colleagues. Pharmacy is a very small world and you shouldn't burn bridges before you even get there. I would venture to guess that some of the instructors that are teaching her are not from elite schools. Does that mean that they are bad instructors, or bad clinicians?? Does that mean that they are not creators, that they don't have valuable ideas or information to pass along? Does that mean that they are not idealistic or make valuable contributions to pharmacy? The answer to those questions is NO. I am sure that if she were to approach her professors in the same manner she has posted to this thread she would be humbled - maybe in a manner that is not quite as vile as this - but it would get the point across. The bottom line is that it does not matter what school you go to - it's the person and professional you become during school that dictates how far you go in pharmacy and how significant your accomplishments and contributions are. There are some bad clinicians out there - from all ranks of schools.

 

[evilolive]

It is a sad thread - and it's sad because eviloive has elected to insult others in her profession. Does not matter that she is a first year student - she is a first year student in a professional program and should know better than as to insult possible/future colleagues. Pharmacy is a very small world and you shouldn't burn bridges before you even get there. I would venture to guess that some of the instructors that are teaching her are not from elite schools. Does that mean that they are bad instructors, or bad clinicians?? Does that mean that they are not creators, that they don't have valuable ideas or information to pass along? Does that mean that they are not idealistic or make valuable contributions to pharmacy? The answer to those questions is NO. I am sure that if she were to approach her professors in the same manner she has posted to this thread she would be humbled - maybe in a manner that is not quite as vile as this - but it would get the point across. The bottom line is that it does not matter what school you go to - it's the person and professional you become during school that dictates how far you go in pharmacy and how significant your accomplishments and contributions are. There are some bad clinicians out there - from all ranks of schools.

You seem so intent on humbling me yet you fail to understand my arguments. If you would so please: tell me what I am stating? Please show me EXACTLY where I am demeaning and insulting others in the profession (as I have requested several times throughout the thread). That might save us some grief; be sure to include quotations too, because what you wrote in this past paragraph does not represent my position in any shape or form - essentially, you are forming a fictitious enemy and sacking her/me mercilessly. Deflecting blame through my perceived lack of professionalism is hardly a defense for your own attacks or misinterpretation of my own arguments, not to mention hypocritical.

 

[Caverject]

this thread is utterly ridiculous on both sides....and thats coming from ME of all people...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I go to a Top 10 (per US News - at least previously - haven't seen recent #'s) school but I don't think it is my school's ranking that will matter most in my career. What will matter more than anything if I stay in this area is that 90% of the pharmacists in this state attended my school. That built-in professional network is far more important than any arbitrary ranking system, IMO.

 

[npage148]

It is a sad thread - and it's sad because eviloive has elected to insult others in her profession. Does not matter that she is a first year student - she is a first year student in a professional program and should know better than as to insult possible/future colleagues. Pharmacy is a very small world and you shouldn't burn bridges before you even get there. I would venture to guess that some of the instructors that are teaching her are not from elite schools. Does that mean that they are bad instructors, or bad clinicians?? Does that mean that they are not creators, that they don't have valuable ideas or information to pass along? Does that mean that they are not idealistic or make valuable contributions to pharmacy? The answer to those questions is NO. I am sure that if she were to approach her professors in the same manner she has posted to this thread she would be humbled - maybe in a manner that is not quite as vile as this - but it would get the point across. The bottom line is that it does not matter what school you go to - it's the person and professional you become during school that dictates how far you go in pharmacy and how significant your accomplishments and contributions are. There are some bad clinicians out there - from all ranks of schools.

eviloive has not insulted anyone in this thread. If anyone has, its you. Multiple times you have insulted her and made threats about her burning her bridges like you are some all masterful god that controls all pharmacists lives. I agree with what she says, the school does matter. Everyone knows which school turns out barely competent pharmacists and which ones turns out much more prepared ones. you get connections at good school and people are less likely to question your knowledge at a well known school. Your tone is extremely aggressive which shows nothing about you other than your unspecified anger and angsts. You keep saying how her opinion is useless cause shes just a student and yours is absolutely correct because you are some work hardened pharmacist that sees all. But the way it appears to me is that you spout BS with anger in between while she makes valid points in a civil tone.

 

[evilolive]

I've thought about what many of you said, and I think most misunderstandings behind the principles lay fundamentally in the choice of perception. Most of the time, we tend to center our viewpoints in arguments for what we consider to be the truth, and bend data to support our viewpoints; everyone is guilty of this, which is inherent bias. Most people who disagree with me tend to cite those that deviate from the norm in order to support their position and ignore evidence that supports the contrary. In effect, the obvious becomes ignored while the exception to the rules are amplified and heralded as proof. Case in point: many students go to college and drop out in public students/JCs all across the US, while most that go to ivy league universities become successful in some manner and complete their degrees. Consider the proportions and magnitude of each (students and number), and my point should become more clear. The same can be applied to pharmacy schools, though not nearly to the same extreme comparisons given the standards that the NAPLEX ensures, validating the necessity of the exam to provide a reliable knowledge basis of all practitioners.

 

[acetyl]

I think the big issue is that Michigan sucks....

...at least in Football. I mean they couldn't even beat a little school in the great state of NC!

 

[evilolive]

Our fans > yours. We can't help it if we're better than everyone else.

 

[acetyl]

Our fans > yours. We can't help it if we're better than everyone else.

Except in basketball....and pharmacy education

 

[evilolive]

How is UNC by the way? what am I missing?

 

[acetyl]

Memorizing stuff...mostly pointless facts, basic science stuff, little bit of pharmacy stuff. Lab is fun. It's good overall, though.

What about Michigan...you met Dean Perry? White coat ceremony was in October, right?

 

[evilolive]

A lot of interesting but useless facts and absolutely - long - labs - that i thought were done with after undergrad Ya Dean Perry is a hoot, and we had our white coat ceremony. The weather is very inconsistent here; one day it's 65 and the next it's 40 There are times I wish it was uniformly warm like at UNC..

 

[acetyl]

Seriously, one of the reasons I decided to go where I did was because the weather in Ann Arbor is really cold, relative to NC. Is Ann Arbor a cool town?

It's not all rosey and peachy here...it was really really hot here this summer...and dry...but it was like that everywhere.

But, you're used to that 70 degree, 0 humidity, Cal weather so you're probably spoiled...

 

[goldenRetriever]

I've thought about what many of you said, and I think most misunderstandings behind the principles lay fundamentally in the choice of perception. Most of the time, we tend to center our viewpoints in arguments for what we consider to be the truth, and bend data to support our viewpoints; everyone is guilty of this, which is inherent bias. Most people who disagree with me tend to cite those that deviate from the norm in order to support their position and ignore evidence that supports the contrary. In effect, the obvious becomes ignored while the exception to the rules are amplified and heralded as proof. Case in point: many students go to college and drop out in public students/JCs all across the US, while most that go to ivy league universities become successful in some manner and complete their degrees. Consider the proportions and magnitude of each (students and number), and my point should become more clear. The same can be applied to pharmacy schools, though not nearly to the same extreme comparisons given the standards that the NAPLEX ensures, validating the necessity of the exam to provide a reliable knowledge basis of all practitioners.

if you are that great, then why aren't you at my school? Did you get rejected?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

if you are that great, then why aren't you at my school? Did you get rejected?

Here is another one insulting evilolive. I wonder if half the people even read his posts.

 

[goldenRetriever]

I've been reading this thread for a few days & found this one to be particularly absurd & a moment to stop & pause.

First, Old Timer, you indicate rightly so the attacks should not be personal. However, you go on to make them so by indicating eviolive has demeaned others - particularly your own personal sensitivity to CVS & retail in general.

She is did nothing more than I did - & I'm about as seasoned as they come!

I stand behind her assertions, however narrow they might be in her career. I've expanded on them in broader terms.

However, when I read back, she has been very inclusive of all students of pharmacy. She indicated that students of "average" schools tend to be less visible, although they can acheive the same results.

That was exactly my point a page or two ago.

rpchase - calling someone an idiot is nonproductive & unprofessional. You lost any point you were trying to make right there.

Industry - you don't have a clue what kind of stuff comes from your posts which borders on "disclosure" & if you are indeed teaching pharmaceutical lit eval. you would see she is not talking about outcomes - she is talking about qualifications. If YOU did the research, you would indeed know that high positive outcomes correlate with variables far beyond physician background. You & I could debate medical education, but I must admit I'm learning about it since it extends far, far beyond residency & involves funding which is entirely different from that which supports pharmaceutical industry funding. I'm curious how you got so qualified.......I live within 30 miles of 2 transplant hospitals & the funding is complicated, intricate & based on numbers, professional "ties, university records & support, etc. I also have a child in the medical education field & their evaluatory experiences are far, far different from ours. Acceptances as FELLOWS (not residents) is based on where the individual did their training & who they trained under, among other things. We are speaking of medical education here - none of which any of us know well. However, as an advisor, mentor or whatever else they call you now....being demeaning to a first year student who really does not probably know literature research techniques very well does not speak highly of you - particulary if your own students say the same thing even after you teaching it.

Same for you Hels - outcomes is an entirely differerent story from qualifications. The real life reality is the individuals with good qualifications will gravitate to places with good money (NIH, etc) which will promote a program with high n's so they get good outcomes. One does indeed follow another. Your points also follow with a bit of a "dig" to a first year student - is that really what you want as an advisor/mentor???

I'd challenge either of you to give me an example of having to have a significant & serious procedure done without knowing exactly who & where your physician trained. I have - with my husband who underwent a surgery which had only been done by 3 surgeons in the US. The surgery had only been done 24 times before. Two neurorsurgeons recommended the 3 & gave us their credentials - yep - all the way back to where they went to medical school. Outcomes, from a surgery are as much dependent on the facility as on the surgeon. However, technique is dependent on the skill of the surgeon.

Why do you think there is a Genentech bulding on the UCSF campus & not at Tuoruo? Qualified professors, bring in high quality research, brings in big money, brings in large research, brings in big opportunities for students, attracts students who are interested - technique & the possibility of what can be done with that technique. Now, what they do with that technique is indeed based on the individual.

Evilolive may have not expressed it very well & may have stepped on a few toes along the way. But, frankly, some of you have embarrassed me with your admonishments to her. She is indeed idealistic. Welll - that is exactly what we need. Idealism.

Frankly, Old Timer, I don't need your thoughts on love & being loved. And - I'm really getting tired of your references to God. They may be significant to you in your career, but your concept of it is not in mine & frankly, I choose not to share my personal thoughts on that here.

I feel it should be kept to a minimum & only addressed when moral or ethical situations are brought up. Beyond that, they becomer offensive to me.

The reality is - evilolive & I disagree with the rest of you. Some of you have gone on & done very well with the education provided to you or the one you sought. Some of you haven't. The same holds true for some of my own classmates & I come from one of the very best schools in the nation. Yep - I'll say it again - I come from one of the best. I'm proud of that, have a whole load of accomplishments & history to look back on. But, I've also had the pleasure of working with lots of people from all over the country - so I know mine is not the only one of the best. I do know there are a lot who are not one of the best, however! That only makes it harder for the student who might want to go farther - as was said by evilolive & myself.

But, it would improve the entire tone & course of this thread if you all agreed to disagree. Be the best pharmacist you can or want to be. Beyond that, leave the first year student alone, particularly with the negative comments to her &/or her lack of experience. I feel this first hand since a few months ago I want put in my place time & again because I have lots & lots of experience - which all the advisors/moderators/mentors - whomever spoke up & said my experiencre meant nothing. That was as ridiculous now as it was then.

I have to agree with WVU - this thread is hilarious - if only it weren't so sad......

Touro is a very young school. The Genentech building at UCSF was planned at least a decade before Touro was conceptualized. UCSF is going to move all of its assets from the old Parnassus campus to Mission Bay. There is no specific reason why Genentech Hall was built at the UCSF Mission Bay campus and not at Touro. Just timing.

 

[goldenRetriever]

Be careful, I wouldn't burn bridges like evilolive and pharmacogenomics have done. Biggest professional mistake one can ever make. Pharmacy is a VERY small world. Remember, employers and residency/fellowship programs DO check you out on the internet. You don't want your comments online to be remembered along with your "University of Michigan Class of 2011" signature.

IndustryPharmD has actually helped me a lot in my search for the right postgraduate training program. She started the pharm industry thread and put A LOT of her time into generating valuable information that I couldn't find elsewhere. She also takes the time to respond to people's PM's. I truly appreciate her generosity with her time and knowledge.

 

[goldenRetriever]

duplicate message deleted

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Be careful, I wouldn't burn bridges like evilolive and pharmacogenomics have done. Biggest professional mistake one can ever make. Pharmacy is a VERY small world. Remember, employers and residency/fellowship programs DO check you out on the internet. You don't want your comments online to be remembered along with your "University of Michigan Class of 2011" signature.

IndustryPharmD has actually helped me a lot in my search for the right postgraduate training program. She started the pharm industry thread and put A LOT of her time into generating valuable information that I couldn't find elsewhere. She also takes the time to respond to people's PM's. I truly appreciate her generosity with her time and knowledge.

U took a crackshot at evilolve, then put pharmcogenomics, one of our most respected and experienced forum as someone burning bridges. . . . , then warning us to be careful because pharmacy is a very small world. . . and telling us what is already a known fact. I am guessing its finals week over at your school.

 

[acetyl]

if you are that great, then why aren't you at my school? Did you get rejected?

For someone so worried about burning bridges why are you trying to pick a fight?

Seriously, a public internet forum...burning bridges...you are silly!!!

And something tells me Evilolive and Pharmacogenomics have nothing to worry about....one of 'em might even have a thing or two to tell you about your great school.

 

[goldenRetriever]

Seems like pharmacogenomics and I actually come from the same pharmacy school. Did you teach BPS 122 or a similar course?

You gave good advice to someone in the pre-pharmacy thread about applying to pharm school as a person with alternative lifestyle. I also know the disabled individual that you mentioned.

If you look at our school's current pharm students and recent graduates, you might notice that almost no one talks about being in the "best pharmacy school in the country". It's the older graduates and professors who bring it up ever so often. I can't speak for every student, but I am secure enough to know that I am fortunate to have access to a good pharmacy education and I am thankful that the resources are available to me for pursuing my interests. We have students who started their education in community colleges, UC's, smaller schools, and Ivy League schools. We also have students who are affected by unexpected things such as serious illness or death in the family. There are students who must work through pharmacy school. Some people come to us with English as their second language. I know someone who deferred his admission for 2 years because he was called to war in the Middle East. So, not everyone comes from the best of life circumstances or an Ivy League college. But our school admits them because something sets them apart from other applicants (in addition to academics). These people will undoutedly graduate from one of the best pharmacy schools in the nation, but only the ones who don't brag about their education and can relate well with people will be the best clinicians. A good mentor/advisor will be fair and provide constructive feedback. To share an inexperienced first year pharmacy student's arrogance and chastise your peers (other mentors) does not speak highly of a "most recognized" senior member on this public forum in my opinion.

Some good quotes here:

Half the harm that is done in this world
Is due to people who want to feel important
They don't mean to do harm-
But the harm does not interest them.
Or they do not see it, or they justify it
Because they are absorbed in the endless struggle
To think well of themselves.
-- T.S. Eliot

If I only had a little humility, I'd be perfect.
-- Ted Turner

It's the combination of narcissism and nihilism that really defines postmodernism.
-- Al Gore