AOA vs Class rank

[Phrasing]

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My school ranks students as top 10, top 10 percent, top 25 percent and everyone else. My question is, if a student is top ten or ten percent but doesn’t make AOA, will being near the top count for anything? (AOA is super political at my school and top ten students miss AOA all the time)

 

[GoldenFish]

It will reflect in your class quartile in your MSPE.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

This is a question that only you as an applicant would think of and not a PD.

 

[Anicetus]

AOA is a more convenient measure to sort thousands of applicants because it literally is a checkbox. Not every school puts it into percentiles. Some do top 1/5, top 1/3, which takes more time.

 

[Phrasing]

AOA is a more convenient measure to sort thousands of applicants because it literally is a checkbox. Not every school puts it into percentiles. Some do top 1/5, top 1/3, which takes more time.

That makes sense. I’m coming from a mid tier or so school so I am hoping to stand out beyond the other normal stuff (USMLE, letters, clinical grades) because I would like to go to a research heavy program.

 

[Redpancreas]

My school ranks students as top 10, top 10 percent, top 25 percent and everyone else. My question is, if a student is top ten or ten percent but doesn’t make AOA, will being near the top count for anything? (AOA is super political at my school and top ten students miss AOA all the time)

Your ranking will be taken at face value. If you are top 20, you will be seen as top 20.

 

[Phrasing]

Your ranking will be taken at face value. If you are top 20, you will be seen as top 20.

Right, but what is the value of that relative to AOA?

 

[Eyeronic]

Do recognize that AOA almost always implies a person works well with others and plays well with others, in addition to having the grades and work ethic. This does not mean that someone with great grades and without AOA is automatically a jerk. BUT there is no denying that having AOA can only help.

As IM as a specialty is very dependent on interpersonal relationships, the elite IM programs will favor someone with AOA, all other things being equal.

 

[Redpancreas]

Right, but what is the value of that relative to AOA?

You can’t compare the two. AOA will unfortunately always have a brand to it that some places choose to value. Top X% is just what it means, you won’t find any magical answers like AOA = top 10% = 230 at top tier school = 240 at mid tier school = 250 at low tier school.

I also echo what Anicetus says. It’s a lazy way to stratify applicants and people justify it by saying that those who earn it deserve it for more reasons than just their stats. At my school, stats were 90% of it.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Do recognize that AOA almost always implies a person works well with others and plays well with others, in addition to having the grades and work ethic. This does not mean that someone with great grades and without AOA is automatically a jerk. BUT there is no denying that having AOA can only help.

As IM as a specialty is very dependent on interpersonal relationships, the elite IM programs will favor someone with AOA, all other things being equal.

Ha - AOA at my medical school was purely a reflection of grades and class rank. Nothing else was taken into account. It said nothing about the personality or social skills of those folks

 

[Anicetus]

Ha - AOA at my medical school was purely a reflection of grades and class rank. Nothing else was taken into account. It said nothing about the personality or social skills of those folks

Did the third year grades say nothing about the personality or social skills of those folks?

 

[IMreshopeful]

Did the third year grades say nothing about the personality or social skills of those folks?

Third year grades are by and large a nebulous, subjective ordeal which reflects some degree of luck (who your attendings are), how much ass kissing you do, and whether you get pimp questions right. Some rotations weight your shelf exam higher than the clinical evals. Etc etc. let’s not pretend they’re some objective measure of what a person is like socially

 

[Anicetus]

Third year grades are by and large a nebulous, subjective ordeal which reflects some degree of luck (who your attendings are), how much ass kissing you do, and whether you get pimp questions right. Some rotations weight your shelf exam higher than the clinical evals. Etc etc. let’s not pretend they’re some objective measure of what a person is like socially

I found the number of times you made the attending and residents laugh positively correlated with the eval grades. Quiet people got shafted.