Applying IM with USMLE Above but COMLEX Below Program Cutoff

[Mad Jack]

So, given the constant recalibration of the COMLEX (every few years they reset a 500 to be average to reduce score creep, something the USMLE doesn't do), it's looking like I'm probably going to have an average COMLEX score (500ish). The COMLEX is an absolute crapshoot of an exam that is poorly written, and many people's scores vary by over 100 points from their predicted, so I could get anything. My USMLE score is probably going to be between 220-230 (unless I do as well as the fluke 253 I pulled the other day). A lot of programs I'm looking at have minimums that look something like this:

Step 1: 200
COMLEX: 540 (60th percentile)

Would I be wasting my time applying to programs with a USMLE in the 220s that is over their Step 1 bar, but a COMLEX that is below their minimum? Or is the USMLE a much more widely accepted and more standardized exam that will allow them to do an apples-to-apples comparison so they won't care about the COMLEX results in regard to minimum scores?

Trying not to freak out too much about my COMLEX on Friday, hoping it ultimately matters less than an acceptable USMLE score.

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[gutonc]

Why don't you take the exams and get back to us in a year or so.

To sort of answer your question, when I reviewed apps for a fellowship program, a DO that had USMLE scores had their COMLEX completely ignored, regardless of how (in)congruent the scores were. Since none of us really knew what to do with them, we were instructed by the PD that COMLEX scores (for those without USMLE) were to be scored on our 5 point scale (this was one of 7 or 8 different aspects of the app that were rated) as <500=1; 500-600=3; >600=5.

 

[deleted392989]

So, given the constant recalibration of the COMLEX (every few years they reset a 500 to be average to reduce score creep, something the USMLE doesn't do), it's looking like I'm probably going to have an average COMLEX score (500ish). The COMLEX is an absolute crapshoot of an exam that is poorly written, and many people's scores vary by over 100 points from their predicted, so I could get anything. My USMLE score is probably going to be between 220-230 (unless I do as well as the fluke 253 I pulled the other day). A lot of programs I'm looking at have minimums that look something like this:

Step 1: 200
COMLEX: 540 (60th percentile)

Would I be wasting my time applying to programs with a USMLE in the 220s that is over their Step 1 bar, but a COMLEX that is below their minimum? Or is the USMLE a much more widely accepted and more standardized exam that will allow them to do an apples-to-apples comparison so they won't care about the COMLEX results in regard to minimum scores?

Trying not to freak out too much about my COMLEX on Friday, hoping it ultimately matters less than an acceptable USMLE score.

Most programs use board score cut-offs when they filter applications to give interviews to. Yes, this also includes COMLEX scores. You can have a kick-ass USMLE score but a **** COMLEX score (not sure how, but I had a friend in this situation...) and SOME programs will automatically filter you out because of the COMLEX scores.

Meeting FREIDA score cutoffs doesn't mean guaranteed interviews either. There were several university programs where I exceeded both USMLE & COMLEX cutoffs but didn't get interviews from them. So in general, the cutoffs should give you an idea of the program's competitiveness vs. other programs.

Do your best to score well on the USMLE and average on the COMLEX. Most university program cutoffs for COMLEX were in the 500-600 range. The ones closer to 600s tend to be less DO friendly and/or look more heavily at USMLE scores. BTW, the COMLEX practice exams are a crapshoot so don't beat yourself for scoring lower than expected. Most people tend to score higher on the real COMLEX.

 

[Mad Jack]

Why don't you take the exams and get back to us in a year or so.

To sort of answer your question, when I reviewed apps for a fellowship program, a DO that had USMLE scores had their COMLEX completely ignored, regardless of how (in)congruent the scores were. Since none of us really knew what to do with them, we were instructed by the PD that COMLEX scores (for those without USMLE) were to be scored on our 5 point scale (this was one of 7 or 8 different aspects of the app that were rated) as <500=1; 500-600=3; >600=5.

I'm just trying to keep myself from panicking before the nightmare that is the COMLEX. Knowing that I've got a month to redeem myself in regard to the USMLE (I've got a two week gap right now, but can extend it if needed) takes some of the anxiety out of the equation. Thanks a lot, I know it's only n=1, but the input really helps!

Most programs use board score cut-offs when they filter applications to give interviews to. Yes, this also includes COMLEX scores. You can have a kick-ass USMLE score but a **** COMLEX score (not sure how, but I had a friend in this situation...) and SOME programs will automatically filter you out because of the COMLEX scores.

Meeting FREIDA score cutoffs doesn't mean guaranteed interviews either. There were several university programs where I exceeded both USMLE & COMLEX cutoffs but didn't get interviews from them. So in general, the cutoffs should give you an idea of the program's competitiveness vs. other programs.

Do your best to score well on the USMLE and average on the COMLEX. Most university program cutoffs for COMLEX were in the 500-600 range. The ones closer to 600s tend to be less DO friendly and/or look more heavily at USMLE scores. BTW, the COMLEX practice exams are a crapshoot so don't beat yourself for scoring lower than expected. Most people tend to score higher on the real COMLEX.

I'm doing my best in regard to studying- the COMSAEs are really all over the place, but so is the COMLEX, so it's representative in the sense that they're both completely all over the map. But I've got three days left, so at this point I'm just like, "**** it, I'd be happy to just land one of the better community programs around." Except a lot of those community programs have 540ish cutoff scores (I'm in the NE), but 200 USMLE cutoffs. The latter I'm definitely going to be way above, but the former I'm kind of hit or miss on depending on what they hit me with.

 

[tantacles]

I'm just trying to keep myself from panicking before the nightmare that is the COMLEX. Knowing that I've got a month to redeem myself in regard to the USMLE (I've got a two week gap right now, but can extend it if needed) takes some of the anxiety out of the equation. Thanks a lot, I know it's only n=1, but the input really helps!

I'm doing my best in regard to studying- the COMSAEs are really all over the place, but so is the COMLEX, so it's representative in the sense that they're both completely all over the map. But I've got three days left, so at this point I'm just like, "**** it, I'd be happy to just land one of the better community programs around." Except a lot of those community programs have 540ish cutoff scores (I'm in the NE), but 200 USMLE cutoffs. The latter I'm definitely going to be way above, but the former I'm kind of hit or miss on depending on what they hit me with.

To echo gutonc, come back when you have your scores. It's useless for us to advise you hypothetically when you don't have either score and realistically might change your mind specialty-wise AND your clinical grades and school matter.


Large dogs

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'll make it n=2. When a DO has both USMLE and COMLEX, we tend to focus on the USMLE. My experience is that the two exams do tend to track together, though (although perhaps there is a selection bias in those who apply to my program).

 

[LostinScience]

Wow I never considered this. The NBOME altered the exam last year and essentially give some students a brutal exam (no way to prepare for) and others a relatively simple one. As a result I scored 230+ on step 1 and well below 500 on level 1. I think there are a significant amount of people in this scenario. Are we simple going to be filtered out when we apply?

 

[Mad Jack]

Wow I never considered this. The NBOME altered the exam last year and essentially give some students a brutal exam (no way to prepare for) and others a relatively simple one. As a result I scored 230+ on step 1 and well below 500 on level 1. I think there are a significant amount of people in this scenario. Are we simple going to be filtered out when we apply?

Yeah, this is pretty much my experience. No Step 1 until Friday, hoping I do as well as my NBMEs... Guess I just can't worry about it until I have hard numbers.

 

[deleted392989]

Wow I never considered this. The NBOME altered the exam last year and essentially give some students a brutal exam (no way to prepare for) and others a relatively simple one. As a result I scored 230+ on step 1 and well below 500 on level 1. I think there are a significant amount of people in this scenario. Are we simple going to be filtered out when we apply?

Programs filter applicants based on board scores (COMLEX & USMLE). If you don't meet the cutoff for 1 set of scores, you're filtered out automatically. The PC would have to adjust their criteria to be OR instead of AND... but honestly, most of them won't know how to do that. And the PC is definitely not going to manually look through apps either.

tldr - yes, you will be filtered out if you do not meet criteria for both COMLEX & USMLE

 

[IslandStyle808]

This answers my questions about two score cut offs I had in the osteo section. Thank you everyone!