BCOM vs LUCOM vs Caribbean

[LA1004]

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patients familiar with liberty will assume LUCOM is ranked just above Bob Jones University College of Osteopathic Biblical Healing & Medicine.

It is unlikely that a patient will be asking their doctor what school they attended. Unless you attended Harvard or Oxford they will probably not even know where your particular school ranks.

 

[mathnerd88]

It is unlikely that a patient will be asking their doctor what school they attended. Unless you attended Harvard or Oxford they will probably not even know where your particular school ranks.

I shadowed my doctor for over 120 hours. In that time period, I've never heard one patient asking her what medical school she graduated from.

 

[drsmpc]

Wait a second, accepted students right now..before the schoo is even completely built are being required to start their course work right now?? How does that even work?

BCOM won't be terrible and I believe it. But it sure isn't going to be God's gift to NM. It just gets on my nerves when I see posts that act as if BCOM is just this innovative and cutting edge medical school meant to impact the world. virtual anatomy isn't new. Their curriculum isn't new. A simulation lab isn't new (UCSD has an entire sim dedicated for cutting edge surgery, and every medical school has SP's and sim dolls). Their research isn't new (they aren't bringing in faculty with NIH grants, they are hitching a ride on NMSU for research), their clinical rotations aren't new or "amazing"...it's hospitals are community hospitals (so you probably won't be seeing a variety of pathology and you won't experience working in a level I trauma medical center). It's tbh, like any other new DO school that's come up and hell, even the MD side is taking up on it with Cal NorthState (which when you google map the school, is literally in a industrial/commercial area. It's a white early 2000's commercial buiding).

Do you know what's impressive? An extension campus of OUHCOM of 50 students from the region of Ohio whose school is WITHIN Cleveland Clinic South Pointe where their clinical training starts (with academic faculty and residents fy) the first week they arrive.

Yes! They're starting some "pre-matriculation" courses now. But yeah, I completely agree with you. It's super annoying when ppl post like BCOM is "at the top" lol. My post was intended to reassure the OP that BCOM wont be as bad a situation as SDN may lead you to believe. They don't need to feel bad about being stuck with BCOM.

 

[samac]

When asked why LUCOM, I wonder what the grads will answer (other than "it was the only school I got into"), because patients familiar with liberty will assume LUCOM is ranked just above Bob Jones University College of Osteopathic Biblical Healing & Medicine.

Most patients won't be familiar with LUCOM or ask where you went to school.

 

[AlteredScale]

Yes! They're starting some "pre-matriculation" courses now. But yeah, I completely agree with you. It's super annoying when ppl post like BCOM is "at the top" lol. My post was intended to reassure the OP that BCOM wont be as bad a situation as SDN may lead you to believe. They don't need to feel bad about being stuck with BCOM.

Wow interesting! I mean it's def better for the school but I kinda feel bad for the student ts haha.I agree with you, BCOM isn't going to be bad. I think alot of the animosity and reservation is revolving around the same things as RVU when it first came about.

 

[FBurnaby]

My statement was tongue-in-cheek...

 

[IslandStyle808]

You make a couple great points. Although RVUCOM is a relatively new, for profit school, I believe it is one of the best in the business. Board scores, its curriculum, and the preparedness of its students are all through the roof and only the most ignorant posters out there will continue to pick at it for its for-profit status.

With that being said, I'm still a bit confused about DO clinical clerkships in years 3 and 4; hopefully you can help explain. Because DO schools are not affiliated with major hospitals, it is my understanding that its students have to more or less "scramble" for rotations. I keep hearing that you can either rotate with residents through a teaching hospital (the ideal setting), rotate at a community hospital?, or rotate with preceptors? (are these physicians that don't mind having you tag along in their private practice or something?) All of the aforementioned might be wrong. What are the various options one has for rotations and which are the best/worst scenarios hierarchically?

You would be amazed at all the different types of rotation scenarios I have heard for DO schools. 1) The one that most MD schools achieve is a ward based rotations with attending, residents, and medical students. Only some DO schools offer the majority of their rotations in this format, which is ideal. 2) The second one I have heard of is an intern based team where it is attending, intern, and medical students in a ward based setting. 3) The third that I have also heard of is a kind of "ward based" with medical students and attending (you round with patients in a hospital and do presentations etc.), it is kind of on the border of preceptor and ward based learning. 4) The fourth is a preceptor based learning where it is usually one/several students that follow one attending. This can be in a hospital, clinical, or even a physician's office. There are so many variations that you will see, but the main thing is to have SOME rotations as close to scenario 1) as possible.

The reason I say this is because the faster you can show you are ready to function as an intern, the more likely you will impress the residency program you want to enter. They want to know you have the basic skills needed to function in a residency such as making patient notes, presenting on patients, and working with the team (correct me if I am wrong medical students/residents). Being able to do procedures is a plus, but not nearly as important to PDs as what was mentioned previously. However, that is not to say that you don't learn anything useful in preceptor based rotations. There will be those that love to be first assist on a surgery or help with an intubation (remember though that the procedures are things that are also taught in residency).

Now as for rotations being dropped. This happens mainly to those who travel afar for their rotations. This is because the hospitals can allocate only so much space for medical students. The ones with first dibs will be the students from the local medical school or ones from medical schools that had strong past affiliations. If you go to BCOM and do your rotations in Las Cruces for instance, you won't have to worry about the "being dropped" scenario for two reasons. The first is that it is the only medical school for miles in the region. The second is that it is right next door (figure of speech) to BCOM (it is the "local school"). This gives the students a great level of protection for their rotation sites.

 

[RTchill]

Wow interesting! I mean it's def better for the school but I kinda feel bad for the student ts haha.I agree with you, BCOM isn't going to be bad. I think alot of the animosity and reservation is revolving around the same things as RVU when it first came about.

These "pre-matriculation" courses aren't really actual medical school course work, and we aren't starting them right now, just sometime between now and August. The courses are things like "the culture and people of New Mexico", "Ethics and leadership", and making sure you have your BLS certification. Basically just like an introduction to med school and new mexico type of thing, something that should be pretty helpful. Many of my medical student friends have had to do stuff like this in the couple of months before they matriculated so I don't think its that abnormal or something to feel bad for the students about.

I think when you attend the interview day it becomes obvious why BCOM is going to be such a good thing for the state of New Mexico and why they really needed another medical school sooner rather than later. I do think BCOM will end up being really important in the state, I don't think it being a for-profit school is as big of a deal as a lot of people want to make it seem, and the faculty and staff are all very sincere and passionate (even the Dean that some people think is slimy). I do think it is weird though when people talk about it being "at the top" etc. b/c that is just obviously not the case and can never be the case for a new school.

I think it will be a pretty interesting, unique, and fun place. What draws me to it most is how focused on the humanitarian side of medicine the school seems. @SailorMoon1991 maybe try thinking of how important mission and service is to you. I think BCOM is a good fit for those people who are really drawn to serve certain populations and want to be surrounded by other passionate humanitarians.
(PS-not sure if I'll be attending BCOM yet bc I have some options, but I def think a lot of the criticism stems from misunderstanding/misinformation)

I would personally never be able to choose LUCOM even if it was my only option (which it would never be b/c I never even considered applying), but that is just b/c I have a big issue with that kind of conservative religiosity and know that it would make life very uncomfortable for me. But that is obviously not an issue for everyone, even if they aren't religious.

sorry for the long post, good luck with your choice and let us know what you land on 🙂

 

[AlteredScale]

These "pre-matriculation" courses aren't really actual medical school course work, and we aren't starting them right now, just sometime between now and August. The courses are things like "the culture and people of New Mexico", "Ethics and leadership", and making sure you have your BLS certification. Basically just like an introduction to med school and new mexico type of thing, something that should be pretty helpful. Many of my medical student friends have had to do stuff like this in the couple of months before they matriculated so I don't think its that abnormal or something to feel bad for the students about.

I think when you attend the interview day it becomes obvious why BCOM is going to be such a good thing for the state of New Mexico and why they really needed another medical school sooner rather than later. I do think BCOM will end up being really important in the state, I don't think it being a for-profit school is as big of a deal as a lot of people want to make it seem, and the faculty and staff are all very sincere and passionate (even the Dean that some people think is slimy). I do think it is weird though when people talk about it being "at the top" etc. b/c that is just obviously not the case and can never be the case for a new school.

I think it will be a pretty interesting, unique, and fun place. What draws me to it most is how focused on the humanitarian side of medicine the school seems. @SailorMoon1991 maybe try thinking of how important mission and service is to you. I think BCOM is a good fit for those people who are really drawn to serve certain populations and want to be surrounded by other passionate humanitarians.
(PS-not sure if I'll be attending BCOM yet bc I have some options, but I def think a lot of the criticism stems from misunderstanding/misinformation)

I would personally never be able to choose LUCOM even if it was my only option (which it would never be b/c I never even considered applying), but that is just b/c I have a big issue with that kind of conservative religiosity and know that it would make life very uncomfortable for me. But that is obviously not an issue for everyone, even if they aren't religious.

sorry for the long post, good luck with your choice and let us know what you land on 🙂

I think I've been overtly harsh to Bcom and that just comes more or less again with this thing of having students say it will be Gods gift to to NM. Obv it will bring more jobs to Las Cruces, it'll produce physicians that will hopefully stay in that region. It will (hopefully) make some discoveries through research.

While I don't expect it to have the same impact Weill Cornell Medical College had through their off shore but LCME accredited satellite school in Qatar, I am now expecting them to do what everyone is raving about in regards to residencies and research. This school has big shoes to fill and that just comes with a healthy dose of skepticism from the academic medical community which isn't a bad thing! Hopefully it's a driving factor.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

BCOM> LUCOM >Carib

One of the things I didnt like about BCOM; you also have learn spanish......

 

[darkeon]

BCOM> LUCOM >Carib

One of the things I didnt like about BCOM; you also have learn spanish......

😕Que?

Spanish speaking population might be present there but their website says nothing about knowing Spanish nor requiring Undergrad courses in Spanish.

 

[RTchill]

😕Que?

Spanish speaking population might be present there but their website says nothing about knowing Spanish nor requiring Undergrad courses in Spanish.

You don't need to know any spanish before matriculating, but you have to take a medical spanish course as part of the pre-clinical years, and before you start rotations you need to pass a standardized patient encounter in spanish.

Requiring a medical spanish course was another reason I got excited about BCOM! So much of the country speaks spanish, and it will be SO useful if you plan to practice in the South (southwest, southeast, TX) or in any major city.

 

[darkeon]

You don't need to know any spanish before matriculating, but you have to take a medical spanish course as part of the pre-clinical years, and before you start rotations you need to pass a standardized patient encounter in spanish.

Requiring a medical spanish course was another reason I got excited about BCOM! So much of the country speaks spanish, and it will be SO useful if you plan to practice in the South (southwest, southeast, TX) or in any major city.

Ah. I did not know that. Thanks for informing me.

 

[edgerock24]

You don't need to know any spanish before matriculating, but you have to take a medical spanish course as part of the pre-clinical years, and before you start rotations you need to pass a standardized patient encounter in spanish.

Requiring a medical spanish course was another reason I got excited about BCOM! So much of the country speaks spanish, and it will be SO useful if you plan to practice in the South (southwest, southeast, TX) or in any major city.

That doesn't sound like an appropriate reason to get excited about a school. Medical school is hard enough to get through (in English); forcing students to pass a course in Spanish seems unnecessary and unhelpful. The time spent in this class/studying for this class could be used to study relevant, board tested material.

If students want to learn Spanish, it should be done on their own time.

 

[mathnerd88]

That doesn't sound like an appropriate reason to get excited about a school. Medical school is hard enough to get through (in English); forcing students to pass a course in Spanish seems unnecessary and unhelpful. The time spent in this class/studying for this class could be used to study relevant, board tested material.

If students want to learn Spanish, it should be done on their own time.

BCOM also requires research. This may be good/not good depending on the student. Some students don't like/want to do research.

From BCOM's website:
"Research and scholarly activity is of paramount importance in the academic realms of the biomedical sciences, clinical sciences, and educational sciences. BCOM supports and encourages the active pursuit of research in the biomedical and clinical sciences, in Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine, and in medical education. Over the course of the four-year curriculum, all students will be expected to complete a student-developed project to be published/presented prior to graduation. To accomplish this, students will receive didactic instruction in research methods and biostatistics, participate in article reviews and discussion, and will be partnered with a faculty member who will serve as a research mentor. Areas of research may vary from basic biomedical (bench) work, to clinical studies, to epidemiology and public health, and to advances in medical education."

The school does sound very ambitious.

 

[Dustbowl12]

demanding excellence is a good thing.

 

[SailorMoon1991]

Thank you everybody for their responses. Do you think I am right in currently believe that rotations at LUCOM seem to be in more rural areas? Also forgive me in asking this, but does the student body of LUCOM seem to be less diverse than other schools? In my opinion, while it seemed predominately people of similar background(white, with families, and christian) to me, I am afraid I am letting the SDN stigma has unfortunately swayed me to one opinion.

 

[SailorMoon1991]

also do you think the attrition rate of BCOM will be similar to that of LUCOMS when it first started? it was around ~10%

 

[drsmpc]

also do you think the attrition rate of BCOM will be similar to that of LUCOMS when it first started? it was around ~10%

I don't think their attrition rate will be higher than usual. Mind you, that statistic can be kind of misleading. The class has normal stats, there are DO schools with worser profiles that do fine.

 

[RTchill]

That doesn't sound like an appropriate reason to get excited about a school. Medical school is hard enough to get through (in English); forcing students to pass a course in Spanish seems unnecessary and unhelpful. The time spent in this class/studying for this class could be used to study relevant, board tested material.

If students want to learn Spanish, it should be done on their own time.

Lol not an appropriate reason to get excited? Different people are excited by different aspects of curriculums...
Re-learning Spanish happens to be important to me and many other people, and a burden for others who I guess should choose a different school.

All they're trying to do is create culturally competent students and physicians, which would probably be harder (for me, ymmv) if I were just trying to use duo lingo in my spare time or whatever. I'd much rather learn medical Spanish before rotations and be able to communicate with a significant portion of my patients...but again, health disparities and the like are very important to me and may not be to other people.

 

[RurouniKarly]

That doesn't sound like an appropriate reason to get excited about a school. Medical school is hard enough to get through (in English); forcing students to pass a course in Spanish seems unnecessary and unhelpful. The time spent in this class/studying for this class could be used to study relevant, board tested material.

If students want to learn Spanish, it should be done on their own time.

The school is heavily mission oriented towards serving New Mexico and the border region. In this area, a sizable chunk of all hospital encounters are with patients who only speak Spanish. When you're doing your medical education and possibly residency in a place where Spanish is heavily used, and your school is specifically trying to train physicians to serve that area, Medical Spanish as a class makes perfect sense. Why would it be "unnecessary and unhelpful" for a school to teach its students how to get through a medical encounter in a language that is used heavily by the local populace?

 

[Ho0v-man]

also do you think the attrition rate of BCOM will be similar to that of LUCOMS when it first started? it was around ~10%

I don't think there's any true way to know that for sure. It very well could be the case since any startup does end up taking some lower stats folks. I don't personally think so, but I liked what I saw at BCOM so I don't think you'll get a very unbiased answer. Do you think you're going to fail out if you go to one vs. the other?

OP, I think from reading this thread one can probably say that BCOM is better on paper (with the exception of the loans). That in mind, if you're going to be miserable there, then it isn't better FOR YOU. I understand being nervous about a new school, but it's not like LUCOM has an alumni base either. I don't think you should have to be talked into you're acceptance. Go where you'll be able to succeed. Good luck!


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[Booster_Gold]

Hey OP,

As someone who has to make a similar choice to yours, I wish you all the best luck. In my opinion, as long as you kill boards and get good grades, I feel like you'll be fine no matter what.

Also shoutouts for the posters to having pretty good discussion in this thread.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Think about the loans. Private loans are scary. I think these loans should only be used as a last resort. You may like something but can't afford does that mean you wouldn't go for the other options which you can financial afford. It really matters, Sdn tries to downplay this but in the real world you can't.

 

[mathnerd88]

Think about the loans. Private loans are scary. I think these loans should only be used as a last resort. You may like something but can't afford does that mean you wouldn't go for the other options which you can financial afford. It really matters, Sdn tries to downplay this but in the real world you can't.

Quite true. I have no idea how people can find private loans with lower interest rate than federal loans. How can private banks make money when they're charging less interest than the feds? If they are charging lower interest than feds, it is most likely variable interest, not fixed. At my financial aid talk in my interviews, all of them warned about this. The financial aid advisor told us that she's seen many instances where students believed they had a lower interest rate, but then the rate skyrocketed later.

No IBR, no loan forgiveness with a generally higher interest rate. I would be scared to take on that much debt at least for the first two years having around $100k in private loans just for tuition. It doesn't include living costs.

BCOM's tuition is:
Tuition: $46,650
BCOM Student Fees (health center, activities center, campus tutoring, information technology, campus transit, etc.) $1,350
Fully comprehensive computer with E-books, E-material and COMLEX/USMLE Test Prep, including Kaplan and Firecracker $1,900

Adding all of these=$49,900.

I don't believe BCOM's tuition should be this high, especially in an area like New Mexico. PCOM's tuition is even lower than this, and located near a major city where land is more expensive and space is limited.

 

[RTchill]

Quite true. I have no idea how people can find private loans with lower interest rate than federal loans. How can private banks make money when they're charging less interest than the feds? If they are charging lower interest than feds, it is most likely variable interest, not fixed. At my financial aid talk in my interviews, all of them warned about this. The financial aid advisor told us that she's seen many instances where students believed they had a lower interest rate, but then the rate skyrocketed later.

No IBR, no loan forgiveness with a generally higher interest rate. I would be scared to take on that much debt at least for the first two years having around $100k in private loans just for tuition. It doesn't include living costs.

BCOM's tuition is:
Tuition: $46,650
BCOM Student Fees (health center, activities center, campus tutoring, information technology, campus transit, etc.) $1,350
Fully comprehensive computer with E-books, E-material and COMLEX/USMLE Test Prep, including Kaplan and Firecracker $1,900

Adding all of these=$49,900.

I don't believe BCOM's tuition should be this high, especially in an area like New Mexico. PCOM's tuition is even lower than this.

yah it is definitely scary to think about private loans, especially when you're as financially ignorant as I am lol. I'm still trying to figure all that stuff out, but I think BCOM has made some moves with wells fargo and maybe another bank that would include IBR. Whatever school you decide to go to, definitely form a close relationship with the financial aid advisors, they really do want you to be as successful as possible and not get swindled. I thought BCOM's tuition was pretty on par with most other DO schools, and it is always going to hurt to pay that much; at least you'll get the benefit of dirt cheap living in Las Cruces (might be the same in Virginia, no idea).

This is one of the reasons I am crossing my fingers so hard for a good result in the TX match in February, that sweet sweet in-state tuition.

 

[IslandStyle808]

BCOM's tuition is:
Tuition: $46,650
BCOM Student Fees (health center, activities center, campus tutoring, information technology, campus transit, etc.) $1,350
Fully comprehensive computer with E-books, E-material and COMLEX/USMLE Test Prep, including Kaplan and Firecracker $1,900

Adding all of these=$49,900.

I don't believe BCOM's tuition should be this high, especially in an area like New Mexico. PCOM's tuition is even lower than this, and located near a major city where land is more expensive and space is limited.

It's high? I can give you another example that is worse.

WVSOM tuition (OOS)
Tuition: $50,200
Books and Supplies: $5272

Total=$55,472

Now here is the kicker. The town population is around 4,000 and the nearest city is 2 hours away (rent is probably slight less than Las Cruces). DO school finances don't drive supply and demand as much as people think, because it hasn't reached a point where it does.

I can't argue with the private loans, that is a worrisome situation. I don't know how the students in RVU done it for four years when the school first opened.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It's high? I can give you another example that is worse.

WVSOM tuition (OOS)
Tuition: $50,200
Books and Supplies: $5272

Total=$55,472

Now here is the kicker. The town population is around 4,000 and the nearest city is 2 hours away (rent is probably slight less than Las Cruces). DO school finances don't drive supply and demand as much as people think, because it hasn't reached a point where it does.

I can't argue with the private loans, that is a worrisome situation. I don't know how the students in RVU done it for four years when the school first opened.

That's how I felt about KCOM, too. You def get a great education and awesome clinical rotations along with a huge alumni base, but tuition is nuts!

So with private loans the first two years, and you can't do IBR, what are your options? Are you in just straight deferment during residency?


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[mathnerd88]

It's high? I can give you another example that is worse.

WVSOM tuition (OOS)
Tuition: $50,200
Books and Supplies: $5272

Total=$55,472

Now here is the kicker. The town population is around 4,000 and the nearest city is 2 hours away (rent is probably slight less than Las Cruces). DO school finances don't drive supply and demand as much as people think, because it hasn't reached a point where it does.

I can't argue with the private loans, that is a worrisome situation. I don't know how the students in RVU done it for four years when the school first opened.

You can say the same for OOS for any state school. They have a duty to accept IS, so I don't believe that's a good example. At these schools, most of the students (around 90%) are from that state to get IS tuition.

Another ridiculous school is CCOM, but they have a good reputation and established itself. Its location is in a wealthy suburb of Chicago.

Other new schools similar to BCOM would be CUSOM, and even CUSOM's tuition is lower, and gives out $40k and $80k scholarships to many of its students. I was able to get my CUSOM tuition down to $34k a year. BCOM could follow suit.

 

[IslandStyle808]

That's how I felt about KCOM, too. You def get a great education and awesome clinical rotations along with a huge alumni base, but tuition is nuts!

So with private loans the first two years, and you can't do IBR, what are your options? Are you in just straight deferment during residency?


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Not really familiar with private loans to give a good answer. I would think you start paying them during residency, not sure how deferment works after school is completed. The real killer is that the interest starts incurring will in school, unlike subsidized federal loans.

 

[bshap000]

When asked why LUCOM, I wonder what the grads will answer (other than "it was the only school I got into"), because patients familiar with liberty will assume LUCOM is ranked just above Bob Jones University College of Osteopathic Biblical Healing & Medicine.

this post made me laugh

But seriously don't go Carib. Just. Don't. Do. It.

 

[mathnerd88]

Not really familiar with private loans to give a good answer. I would think you start paying them during residency, not sure how deferment works after school is completed. The real killer is that the interest starts incurring will in school, unlike subsidized federal loans.

They don't do subsidized federal loans anymore for graduate/medical school. You accrue interest while still in school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

You can say the same for OOS for any state school. They have a duty to accept IS, so I don't believe that's a good example.

Another ridiculous school is CCOM, but they have a good reputation and established itself.

I guess your point is more because BCOM is a new school and because it is in a rather small city, the tuition should be lower. I don't believe those to be driving forces for tuition.

For instance, KCU's tuition is $43,000 and ATSU-KCOM is $48,000. KCU is in a moderately large city and ATSU-KCOM is small town. The research opportunities are also greater at KCU. Another example are the sister schools that charge the same price. ATSU-SOMA was the same price as ATSU-KCOM even from the opening of the school. This is also true for the new NYIT-Arkansas school, which will charge the exact same tuition as the original NYIT, $52,000.

 

[IslandStyle808]

They don't do subsidized federal loans anymore for graduate/medical school. You accrue interest while still in school.

You're correct forgot about that.

 

[mathnerd88]

I guess your point is more because BCOM is a new school and because it is in a rather small city, the tuition should be lower. I don't believe those to be driving forces for tuition.

For instance, KCU's tuition is $43,000 and ATSU-KCOM is $48,000. KCU is in a moderately large city and ATSU-KCOM is small town. The research opportunities are also greater at KCU. Another example are the sister schools that charge the same price. ATSU-SOMA was the same price as ATSU-KCOM even from the opening of the school. This is also true for the new NYIT-Arkansas school, which will charge the exact same tuition as the original NYIT, $52,000.

My thoughts for BCOM would be similar for these other schools. NYIT-Arkansas should not have to cost $52k for tuition. Perhaps I'm the type of person who believes state schools are generally the best schools to attend because of their relatively cheap(er) tuition compared to these private schools and just as good, if not better quality of rotations/ curriculum.

Many MD schools are cheaper than DO schools and have much better resources/quality of rotations. Why should DO schools be more expensive than MD schools?

 

[Dustbowl12]

bcom incoming class stats are 3.5 and 25 average, their tuition is lower than the average tuition of DO schools, and their student body is really diverse, I read online (someone post link I can't find it) that they have like X times more minority students than the national average

 

[Dustbowl12]

My thoughts for BCOM would be similar for these other schools. NYIT-Arkansas should not have to cost $52k for tuition. Perhaps I'm the type of person who believes state schools are generally the best schools to attend because of their relatively cheap(er) tuition compared to these private schools and just as good, if not better quality of rotations/ curriculum.

Most MD schools are cheaper than DO schools. Why should DO schools be generally more expensive than MD schools?

alot aren't backed by major unis and are usually independant.

 

[IslandStyle808]

My thoughts for BCOM would be similar for these other schools. NYIT-Arkansas should not have to cost $52k for tuition. Perhaps I'm the type of person who believes state schools are generally the best schools to attend because of their relatively cheap(er) tuition compared to these private schools and just as good, if not better quality of rotations/ curriculum.

Many MD schools are cheaper than DO schools. Why should DO schools be more expensive than MD schools?

It's because most MD school are under/affiliated with universities, this is why they are usually cheaper. If you look at a lost of private MD schools, they are just as expensive as DO school. The reason why the cost of a state school is cheaper is because they get their backing from the university and state tax payers.

 

[mathnerd88]

bcom incoming class stats are 3.5 and 25 average, their tuition is lower than the average tuition of DO schools, and their student body is really diverse, I read online (someone post link I can't find it) that they have like X times more minority students than the national average

Just wondering, is that 3.5 just cGPA, or sGPA?

 

[mathnerd88]

It's because most MD school are under/affiliated with universities, this is why they are usually cheaper. If you look at a lost of private MD schools, they are just as expensive as DO school. The reason why the cost of a state school is cheaper is because they get their backing from the university and state tax payers.

I agree, but imagine if the schools were "non-profit," its tuition costs would decrease. Correct me if I'm wrong. If the tuition didn't increase, at least the extra money could be used to improve facilities, better education, improve research, etc. instead of returning its profits back to its investors.

For profit medical schools are akin to the ones in the Caribbean, according to the Dean of BCOM.
http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2093567

"For-profit medical education is an anathema to the larger medical community. Most for-profit medical schools exist in impoverished, legally permissive locales, such as the Caribbean region, to exploit the desires of individuals who are willing to pay a premium in tuition—and sacrifice education quality and personal credibility—to become physicians. Certainly, many students who graduate from Caribbean for-profit schools become qualified and respected physicians in the US medical community—but such results happen in spite of, rather than because of, their medical schools. The graduates of foreign for-profit medical schools typically struggle to gain acceptance into US residency training programs, and they frequently must settle for less desirable or unwanted residency slots.4 Considering these realities, I am concerned for the graduates of RVUCOM, the first for-profit medical school in the United States since 1930."

It looks like the Dean has changed his mind about "for-profit" medical education.

Are BCOM and RVU the only "for-profit" medical schools in the nation?

 

[IslandStyle808]

I agree, but imagine if the schools were "non-profit," its tuition costs would decrease. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Are BCOM and RVU the only "for-profit" medical schools in the nation?

As it stands BCOM, RVU, and CNU are the only schools that are for-profit. I am not sure that the non-profit status would decrease tuition. It is amazing enough to know that BCOM, a for profit, will cost $48k while NYIT-Arkansas, a non-profit, will cost $52k. So it will be all a matter of how the school decides to charge and how the money is distributed (this topic is a little beyond me). What I know for sure would is if the school were a public school, this would happen (it would also mean charging OOS tuition for out of state applicants). As mentioned by a faculty member at my local MD school, that state taxes pay a 10% part of tuition for each student (the university its probably play a large part too, but not sure how much).

 

[mathnerd88]

As it stands BCOM, RVU, and CNU are the only schools that are for-profit. I am not sure that the non-profit status would decrease tuition. It is amazing enough to know that BCOM, a for profit, will cost $48k while NYIT-Arkansas, a non-profit, will cost $52k. So it will be all a matter of how the school decides to charge and how the money is distributed (this topic is a little beyond me). What I know for sure would is if the school were a public school, this would happen (it would also mean charging OOS tuition for out of state applicants). As mentioned by a faculty member at my local MD school, that state taxes pay a 10% part of tuition for each student (the university its probably play a large part too, but not sure how much).

True. I find NYIT-Arkansas's tuition ridiculous. Perhaps I'm just worried about medical school tuition, because I crunched numbers again. For a single person, the tuition is outrageous without any sort of scholarship/family help.

With a PCP salary, and after taxes, you're only taking home $7-8k per year. If you try to pay $5000 in loans per month in hopes of paying off your tuition in about 5 years, you'll only have $2-3k per month to spend on mortgage, family, car, etc. It's definitely doable with a spouse, but as a single person, it would be kind of difficult. You'll be debt free possibly, without taking any gap years, 13 years after graduating college (mid-late thirties.) I think most premeds don't actually consider this, because they're focused on getting into medical school.

 

[RTchill]

Just wondering, is that 3.5 just cGPA, or sGPA?

here is the link with some interesting info, it does not specify if the gpa is cumulative or science, so I'm assuming cumulative. the average gpa and mcat will probably change a bit with waitlist movement, but I imagine it would hover around the same.

http://www.burrellgroupmtpfs.org/BCOMatNMSU.pdf

I'm impressed by how diverse the accepted student pool is (also evidenced by the FB group), that is something that a lot of schools just pay lip service to.

 

[mathnerd88]

here is the link with some interesting info, it does not specify if the gpa is cumulative or science, so I'm assuming cumulative. the average gpa and mcat will probably change a bit with waitlist movement, but I imagine it would hover around the same.

http://www.burrellgroupmtpfs.org/BCOMatNMSU.pdf

I'm impressed by how diverse the accepted student pool is (also evidenced by the FB group), that is something that a lot of schools just pay lip service to.

Interesting, because RowanSOM claims to be #1 in diversity. I'm not sure if that's something to be super impressed about. Yes, diversity is good, but it isn't going to affect my medical education, or anyone else's, for that matter, when most of it is independent study. What I care about, (and most students would) is what can the school offer me that other schools cannot? That's the key difference for those who are comparing schools.

http://www.rowan.edu/som/about/

RowanSOM is ranked #1 of all U.S. osteopathic medical schools in diversity.

• Underrepresented minority student enrollment (18%)
• Total minority student enrollment (56%)
• Pipeline and articulation programs support the school’s diversity commitment

 

[AwayFromReality]

True. I find NYIT-Arkansas's tuition ridiculous. Perhaps I'm just worried about medical school tuition, because I crunched numbers again. For a single person, the tuition is outrageous without any sort of scholarship/family help.

With a PCP salary, and after taxes, you're only taking home $7-8k per year. If you try to pay $5000 in loans per month in hopes of paying off your tuition in about 5 years, you'll only have $2-3k per month to spend on mortgage, family, car, etc. It's definitely doable with a spouse, but as a single person, it would be kind of difficult. You'll be debt free possibly, without taking any gap years, 13 years after graduating college (mid-late thirties.) I think most premeds don't actually consider this, because they're focused on getting into medical school.

That number seems awfully low. Do you have a breakdown of that? I'm not well versed in finances but a bit of research I did showed the average salary for a Family Physician is around $190,000. Assuming you're practicing in California, your take home pay after taxes is about $118,000. Even if you pay $5000 a month for loans that leaves you with $58,000 in yearly salary.

 

[mathnerd88]

That number seems awfully low. Do you have a breakdown of that? I'm not well versed in finances but a bit of research I did showed the average salary for a Family Physician is around $190,000. Assuming you're practicing in california, your take home pay after taxes is about $118,000. Even if you pay $5000 a month for loans that leaves you with $58,000 in yearly salary.

Can you show your source? Because in my research, average median for FP is $158k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Family_Physician_/_Doctor/Salary

$190k looks to be around the 90th percentile of all FP salaries reported on there.

 

[RurouniKarly]

Interesting, because RowanSOM claims to be #1 in diversity. I'm not sure if that's something to be super impressed about. Yes, diversity is good, but it isn't going to affect my medical education, or anyone else's, for that matter, when most of it is independent-study.

http://www.rowan.edu/som/about/

RowanSOM is ranked #1 of all U.S. osteopathic medical schools in diversity.

• Underrepresented minority student enrollment (18%)
• Total minority student enrollment (56%)
• Pipeline and articulation programs support the school’s diversity commitment

The numbers are still coming in for this year, so I imagine Rowan will have to evaluate if they still hold the #1 spot after the 2016 classes matriculate.

While having a high number of minority students might not impact the curriculum, I think it says a lot about the values of an institution and I believe it's something that contributes to the culture of the class.

 

[AwayFromReality]

Can you show your source? Because in my research, average median for FP is $158k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Family_Physician_/_Doctor/Salary

$190k looks to be around the 90th percentile of all FP salaries reported on there.

http://www1.salary.com/family-physician-salary.html

$186,573 is the median FP salary reported here. I guess I overestimated a bit in my calculations but not by much.

Edit:
http://www.aafp.org/news/practice-professional-issues/20150513salaryreport.html
Here is the most up to date figure I could find, straight from AAFP. Average (not median) salary of 195,000 for FP

 

[mathnerd88]

http://www1.salary.com/family-physician-salary.html

$186,573 is the median FP salary reported here. I guess I overestimated a bit in my calculations but not by much.

Hmm, in NYC, I see listings for FP that are being paid at $90/hour, which translates to $163,800 annually. I guess we can never really know. Salaries fluctuate depending on the area.

 

[Booster_Gold]

The numbers are still coming in for this year, so I imagine Rowan will have to evaluate if they still hold the #1 spot after the 2016 classes matriculate.

While having a high number of minority students might not impact the curriculum, I think it says a lot about the values of an institution and I believe it's something that contributes to the culture of the class.

I agree 100%. I think student diversity is really important because it brings you in contact with people from different cultures and upbringings than you. I feel that having a diverse student class will help you deal with diverse patients. Diversity is important for me personally and one of the biggest factors in helping me choose a school