Buying a house, a practice, and paying off school debt — losing sleep. How?

[thelazyvaca]

Optimistically please,

How does a future pediatric dentist pay for a home, a practice, and pay off $500,000 worth of school loans in Texas? Is it doable? What am I missing here? No family and young. Will I ever be able to have the lifestyle where I am able to have financial independence? The thought is scaring me, will I ever be profitable? Is buying a ranch off the table? 😔

Please give me some hope here folks.

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[emma_m]

Optimistically please,

How does a future pediatric dentist pay for a home, a practice, and pay off $500,000 worth of school loans in Texas? Is it doable? What am I missing here? No family and young. Will I ever be able to have the lifestyle where I am able to have financial independence? The thought is scaring me, will I ever be profitable? Is buying a ranch off the table? 😔

Please give me some hope here folks.

Pediatric dentists earn a good income so while your debt is quite high, I assume you can manage it in the end. Properties and practices in TX are significantly cheaper than in other states although property taxes are high I would say. You can easily purchase a house in TX under $500k, so just make a 20% down payment (or take a loan for dentists) and your mortgage will be similar to paying rent. Prices of properties in TX started to decrease although they are still like 40-45% more compared to 2019. You have no family and you are young so you can make some sacrifices to make it happen. Work longer hours, maybe more days than other dentists, buy a starter home so you don’t feel too much financial pressure and live a modest life in the beginning. Treat yourself once in a while, you deserve it!

 

[thelazyvaca]

Pediatric dentists earn a good income so while your debt is quite high, I assume you can manage it in the end. Properties and practices in TX are significantly cheaper than in other states although property taxes are high I would say. You can easily purchase a house in TX under $500k, so just make a 20% down payment (or take a loan for dentists) and your mortgage will be similar to paying rent. Prices of properties in TX started to decrease although they are still like 40-45% more compared to 2019. You have no family and you are young so you can make some sacrifices to make it happen. Work longer hours, maybe more days than other dentists, buy a starter home so you don’t feel too much financial pressure and live a modest life in the beginning. Treat yourself once in a while, you deserve it!

Thank you for the response! I get overwhelmed thinking about it all, and my goals just seem so much harder to achieve.

 

[allDAT]

You’ll be fine but 500k in student loans is pretty high for pedo and will take some delayed gratification to pay off.

Use REPAYE for now and get yourself a home and practice. Then deal with the student loans once the practice is humming. Student loans simple interest accumulation, possible forgiveness, and interest subsidy through REPAYE should put them last on the priority list.

 

[allDAT]

And find someone to spend your life with who has a job….that helps a lot LOL.

 

[charlestweed]

It depends on your income (how hard you are willing to work) and your spending habit. The more money you make and the less you spend, the faster you will pay off debt and become financially independent.

If you are still single, there’s no reason to buy a house now. You should focus on paying off the student loan debt ASAP. When you meet someone (and plan to marry that person), you can impress him/her by showing him/her that you are not a broke dentist. Financial problems and stress are one of the most significant factors that can lead to divorce. It’s also better to buy a house when there are 2 incomes in a household…..less stressful on your part. My wife’s best friend is an endodontist. When she was still single, she told my wife that the reason she didn’t want to buy a house (despite making a lot of money) was she didn’t want to be tied to one place. She wanted to have the freedom to move to wherever both her future husband and she want to live. She finally found the love of her life...and got married when she was in her mid 40s. They bought a house (a very nice one...nicer than mine) together.

If you plan to stay single and don’t plan to have any kids for the rest of your life, I don’t think you have any problem paying back the $500k student loan debt and buy a nice house with your pedo income. If you can’t do that, there must be something wrong with your clinical skills or your work ethic.

Pay off the student loan debt ASAP (if you don't know how to invest your hard earned money) and you will sleep better at night.

 

[thelazyvaca]

You’ll be fine but 500k in student loans is pretty high for pedo and will take some delayed gratification to pay off.

Use REPAYE for now and get yourself a home and practice. Then deal with the student loans once the practice is humming. Student loans simple interest accumulation, possible forgiveness, and interest subsidy through REPAYE should put them last on the priority list.

Thank you for the response! Forgiveness programs sure do help me not stress as much!

 

[thelazyvaca]

It depends on your income (how hard you are willing to work) and your spending habit. The more money you make and the less you spend, the faster you will pay off debt and become financially independent.

If you are still single, there’s no reason to buy a house now. You should focus on paying off the student loan debt ASAP. When you meet someone (and plan to marry that person), you can impress him/her by showing him/her that you are not a broke dentist. Financial problems and stress are one of the most significant factors that can lead to divorce. It’s also better to buy a house when there are 2 incomes in a household…..less stressful on your part. My wife’s best friend is an endodontist. When she was still single, she told my wife that the reason she didn’t want to buy a house (despite making a lot of money) was she didn’t want to be tied to one place. She wanted to have the freedom to move to wherever both her future husband and she want to live. She finally found the love of her life...and got married when she was in her mid 40s. They bought a house (a very nice one...nicer than mine) together.

If you plan to stay single and don’t plan to have any kids for the rest of your life, I don’t think you have any problem paying back the $500k student loan debt and buy a nice house with your pedo income. If you can’t do that, there must be something wrong with your clinical skills or your work ethic.

Pay off the student loan debt ASAP (if you don't know how to invest your hard earned money) and you will sleep better at night.

Thank you for making me feel better! It’s easy to become overwhelmed and forget that there is so much potential in this field! Hopefully I can pay aggressively early and still get to the point of financial independence early on!

 

[Cold Front]

Optimistically please,

How does a future pediatric dentist pay for a home, a practice, and pay off $500,000 worth of school loans in Texas? Is it doable? What am I missing here? No family and young. Will I ever be able to have the lifestyle where I am able to have financial independence? The thought is scaring me, will I ever be profitable? Is buying a ranch off the table?

Please give me some hope here folks.

Very valid fear. You should be worried. Yes, people will tell you that the debt can easily be managed. Some will tell you to just work hard to crush that insane debt. Did you choose the field to work “very hard”? The reality is, even as a pediatric dentist in 2020’s, you will be working harder to make the same income as pediatric dentists in the same shoes from the last 3 decades. The world of dentistry has become more challenging in general, specially in the area of finance. Some would tell you to accept that you arrived the game in a period beyond the golden and glory years of the profession, and that’s very true in many ways financially. Not to discourage you in anyway, but be very informed about the path ahead - as income to debt ratio is very important to any big financial decision.

 

[charlestweed]

Thank you for making me feel better! It’s easy to become overwhelmed and forget that there is so much potential in this field! Hopefully I can pay aggressively early and still get to the point of financial independence early on!

With the mentality of trying to get the debt out of the way ASAP, you will be fine. Being 51 and having lived through all the ups and downs of the US economy since 1986, the year I came to the US, I can tell you that dentistry is a solid recession proof career. A lot of people are facing hardships right now because of inflation and poor economy. You should feel very lucky that you pick the right profession. And pedodontics is a great specialty.

Working hard (especially now when you are still young, single and have no kids) is the best way to become financially independent early. You don’t to have to impress anyone with a big house or a ranch right now. Don’t be a slave to banks. Working hard in dentistry is nothing in comparison to other careers. Don't be a spoiled dentist. I had worked as a busboy and as a newspaper boy during my HS and college years. Those jobs were 100x harder than practicing dentistry. I also do gardening works in my backyard on my days off a few times a year and I was dead tired at the end of the day. I don’t know how my gardener can handle this type of work every single day. Every time I come to visit my sister, I always see her husband, who is a MD (internal medicine), works in front of his computer at home. Today is New Year's Eve and her husband still has to see patients until 5pm at his office. I am glad I am a dentist.

 

[D1Bound]

You need to be completely okay with living dirt cheap for a few years into practice. I’m talking $1000-1500 rent, food, gas for driving your used honda civic, everything. This will be extremely difficult being in your late 20s from what I’ve seen. Your future will solely rest on how much dentistry you can efficiently and ethically produce with your own two hands to pay for the stuff you want. It’s a tough road, but possible. If you don’t want to labor it isn’t the right path.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

How does a future pediatric dentist pay for a home, a practice, and pay off $500,000 worth of school loans in Texas?

Based on your post history, it appears you’re a D1 at Roseman who just wrapped up their first semester. You need to approach this one step at a time. To me, you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. There’s a lot of uncertainty ahead for you, so plan to be flexible. What if you end up not applying to peds? What if you apply to peds, but you don’t Match? What if you don’t end up practicing in Texas?

The only certainty here is that you’re attending a school that costs more than most, so it’s going to take more work to pay it off than most. Just be prepared for that.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

Based on your post history, it appears you’re a D1 at Roseman who just wrapped up their first semester. You need to approach this one step at a time. To me, you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. There’s a lot of uncertainty ahead for you, so plan to be flexible. What if you end up not applying to peds? What if you apply to peds, but you don’t Match? What if you don’t end up practicing in Texas?

The only certainty here is that you’re attending a school that costs more than most, so it’s going to take more work to pay it off than most. Just be prepared for that.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Big Hoss

One bite at a time while living in your car to save money

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Is buying a ranch off the table?

Aren’t ranches like millions of dollars? Probably off the table to most people tbh

 

[juniordentist]

Yes, it is daunting. Dental schools have completely taken advantage of us charging 500k for a dental degree.
You will pay it off, but you're not going to be living a baller dentist lifestyle (that everyone probably led you to believe) for 10 years after grad. You'll spend those years living the same lifestyle as basically any university graduate.
After 10 years when your debt is gone it becomes worth it.

 

[charlestweed]

Aren’t ranches like millions of dollars? Probably off the table to most people tbh

Lands in Texas are not very expensive. There are plenty of ranches (10+ acres) that are listed for sale in TX for under $1 million.

| Texas Homes and Land For Sale

www.texashomesandlandforsale.com

 

[Chief's Pineapple]

Lands in Texas are not very expensive. There are plenty of ranches (10+ acres) that are listed for sale in TX for under $1 million.

| Texas Homes and Land For Sale

www.texashomesandlandforsale.com

Until you see the property taxes.

Anecdotally, I have heard of some people who moved here from CA because of the cheaper cost of housing, but are now looking to move back. Why? Because of lower wages in their respective field and the property taxes. They basically do not come out on top. Not to mention the (arguably) worse quality of life here compared to CA. And that's not including leaving friends and family behind.

Like you have said in previous threads, you just can't beat the SoCal lifestyle, my friend.

 

[thelazyvaca]

With the mentality of trying to get the debt out of the way ASAP, you will be fine. Being 51 and having lived through all the ups and downs of the US economy since 1986, the year I came to the US, I can tell you that dentistry is a solid recession proof career. A lot of people are facing hardships right now because of inflation and poor economy. You should feel very lucky that you pick the right profession. And pedodontics is a great specialty.

Working hard (especially now when you are still young, single and have no kids) is the best way to become financially independent early. You don’t to have to impress anyone with a big house or a ranch right now. Don’t be a slave to banks. Working hard in dentistry is nothing in comparison to other careers. Don't be a spoiled dentist. I had worked as a busboy and as a newspaper boy during my HS and college years. Those jobs were 100x harder than practicing dentistry. I also do gardening works in my backyard on my days off a few times a year and I was dead tired at the end of the day. I don’t know how my gardener can handle this type of work every single day. Every time I come to visit my sister, I always see her husband, who is a MD (internal medicine), works in front of his computer at home. Today is New Year's Eve and her husband still has to see patients until 5pm at his office. I am glad I am a dentist.

Thanks again for the thoughtful response. Super grateful to be where I am right now. Going to take it day by day and enjoy my time learning.

 

[emma_m]

Aren’t salaries of dentists very low in CA compared to other states? $650-$750 minimum daily guarantee for GPs doesn’t sound too good to me.

 

[charlestweed]

Until you see the property taxes.

Yeah, property taxes in TX are very high. It’s probably better to rent if you don’t plan to live there for a long time. I’ve heard that you can get a huge tax break (almost no tax) if you raise certain number of farm animals in your ranch.

Anecdotally, I have heard of some people who moved here from CA because of the cheaper cost of housing, but are now looking to move back. Why? Because of lower wages in their respective field and the property taxes. They basically do not come out on top. Not to mention the (arguably) worse quality of life here compared to CA. And that's not including leaving friends and family behind.

Like you have said in previous threads, you just can't beat the SoCal lifestyle, my friend.

People will eventually move back to CA. I’ve also met quite a few number of dentists at the Corp offices where I work at who used to work in TX, NV, AZ and other states. They all moved back to CA because of the nicer weather and better social life. My younger brother, who is a gastroenterologist, moved to Colorado Spring because of the better paid job there. He couldn’t last there more than 2 years. It’s cold. His car was destroyed by hail. His 3 kids missed their grandparents and cousins. He had to move back to CA and accepted the pay cut. He didn’t sell his home in CA because he knew that he would move back here again. My college friend, who has practiced dentistry in TX for about 15 years and has made a lot of money. He recently bought a retirement house in Huntington Beach, CA. His daughter will apply for colleges in CA. They plan to move back to CA in a couple of years. My niece gets a couple of interviews for the internal medicine residency and she will rank the UCI hospital the highest on her list because it's close to her parents' house in CA. According to my niece, UCI is not a strong program but a lot of med students want to get in because it's in Orange county, one of the best counties to live in CA.

 

[charlestweed]

Aren’t salaries of dentists very low in CA compared to other states? $650-$750 minimum daily guarantee for GPs doesn’t sound too good to me.

Salaries for GPs are not necessarily less in CA. To make up for the lower fees and higher competition, they have to see more patients (many are medicaid and HMO patients) per day and work more days per month than the dentists who practice in other states. In other words, they have to work harder....and more efficiently. I make more than many of my colleagues who practice in other states because I have a lot more patients (I travel to work at multiple offices….my own offices and corp offices). TBH, I don’t know my colleagues’ incomes but I think I make more than them because I don’t complain and think "the sky is falling" like them…..I am very happy with what I make.

Nothing in life is easy. You have to give up something in order to gain something. To enjoy the beautiful weather all year round here in CA, you have to work harder. The more nice things (house, cars, good food, vacation travels, living in a nice weather state etc) you want, the harder you have to work.

 

[LFA20]

Would you guys agree that the hardest thing to give up is GOOD location? (living in sunny california or NYC, etc).

 

[charlestweed]

Would you guys agree that the hardest thing to give up is GOOD location? (living in sunny california or NYC, etc).

If you are spoiled growing up in a good city/state and then you have to move to another state with worse weather and social life (no friend, no relative) for school or job or a different reason, it’ll be hard to give it up. One more story….My newhew is currently in his 4th year at a BS/MD program in one of the cold eastern states. He will start med school at this same program next year. But he also applied to other med schools in CA. He’ll have an interview at USC med school next week. His mom (my sister) will gladly pay for the much higher tuition at USC med school and hopes the school will accept him.

 

[thelazyvaca]

Very valid fear. You should be worried. Yes, people will tell you that the debt can easily be managed. Some will tell you to just work hard to crush that insane debt. Did you choose the field to work “very hard”? The reality is, even as a pediatric dentist in 2020’s, you will be working harder to make the same income as pediatric dentists in the same shoes from the last 3 decades. The world of dentistry has become more challenging in general, specially in the area of finance. Some would tell you to accept that you arrived the game in a period beyond the golden and glory years of the profession, and that’s very true in many ways financially. Not to discourage you in anyway, but be very informed about the path ahead - as income to debt ratio is very important to any big financial decision.

Discouraged me lol, but thank you for the response.

 

[thelazyvaca]

Based on your post history, it appears you’re a D1 at Roseman who just wrapped up their first semester. You need to approach this one step at a time. To me, you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. There’s a lot of uncertainty ahead for you, so plan to be flexible. What if you end up not applying to peds? What if you apply to peds, but you don’t Match? What if you don’t end up practicing in Texas?

The only certainty here is that you’re attending a school that costs more than most, so it’s going to take more work to pay it off than most. Just be prepared for that.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Big Hoss

You’re right, I guess it‘s easy to be overwhelmed and try to plan. Thank you for the response.

 

[yappy]

CALIFORNIA, USA — A new study released by a California-based market analyst group, released a comprehensive list of the best and worst states to live in in the US. The study is based on eight data-driven metrics weighted on their importance: affordability, crime and safety, economy, education, health care, infrastructure, opportunity and quality of life.

The study found that California ranked near the bottom of nearly every metric and overall was found to be the 48th best state to live in.

California is not a good place to live.

 

[charlestweed]

California is not a good place to live.

It’s definitely not a good place to live if you don’t make enough and can’t afford to pay rent (or buy a house)…..eat out with friends and relatives…. buy food.....fill the gas tank etc. Everything is more expensive in CA than in other states. Money can not buy happiness but you can’t be happy to live in CA if you don’t have money. Where I live (in Orange County) is nothing in comparison to much more expensive cities in the north like SF, San Jose etc.

Move out of CA if you don’t mind living in extremely cold (or extremely hot) weather states. That’s what Dave Ramsey has always recommended his listeners to do if they want to get out of debts ASAP. This video below is one of them. Either move to a cheaper area or find ways (ie WORK HARDER) to increase your income. You can’t have both….have a work life balance and live in one of the most expensive states in the country.

Being Asian, I find CA the best state for me to live in because of the culture diversity. It gives my practice a better opportunity to thrive than in if I have to work in one of the states that has low Asian and Hispanic population. The rapid Hispanic population growth and the influx of Asian immigrants in recent years have helped maintain the success of my practice. I also love the multi-ethnic food….the Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, Mexican, Korean, Japanese food . I can enjoy the food any time I want and don’t need to travel to those countries in order to enjoy them.

 

[NITRAS]

I love it how Californians think they have the market on ethnic food. I live an relatively small Texas town and I have a ton of options within 45 minutes of where I live.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

It’s definitely not the good place to live if you don’t make enough and can’t afford to pay rent (or buy a house)…..eat out with friends and relatives…. buy food.....fill the gas tank etc.

So basically if you’re a USC dental grad. Kidding, but not kidding.

To the cabal of dental schools costing $600,000 or more, my offer still stands. This shows up in the mail, and my account gets deleted.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

So basically if you’re a USC dental grad. Kidding, but not kidding.

To the cabal of dental schools costing $600,000 or more, my offer still stands. This shows up in the mail, and my account gets deleted.

View attachment 364209

Big Hoss

Imagine signing up for 600 thow wow to learn class 2s

 

[charlestweed]

I love it how Californians think they have the market on ethnic food. I live an relatively small Texas town and I have a ton of options within 45 minutes of where I live.

California has the best Asian food hands down. We are spoiled with the good authentic food here in SoCal. But the food in Houston and NY are pretty solid as well. Seattle is getting there too. I think living in TX is a good compromise if you don’t mind the hot and humid summer. A lot of people have left CA for TX….affordable housing, no state income tax, and more business friendly etc.

 

[Roto Picante]

I'm with YAPPY. California is NOT a good place to live. The pros list is considerable, but all the things that matter IMHO are in the con column.

 

[charlestweed]

So basically if you’re a USC dental grad. Kidding, but not kidding.

To the cabal of dental schools costing $600,000 or more, my offer still stands. This shows up in the mail, and my account gets deleted.

View attachment 364209

Big Hoss

Definitely not for a USC dental grad with $600k debt. It’s still tough to live here even for a dentist with zero debt. You will never be able to buy a house in CA, if you work less than 4 days/wk as a GP….are the only income earner in your househould…..and only make $100-120k/year. The rent for a simple one-story 1200sf 3 bed 2 bath house here in Orange County easily sets you back $3000 every month. $ 4-5000 a month if you want to live in a safer upscale neighborhood like Irvine, Huntington Beach, or Fountain Valley.

 

[Thehighwind87]

Optimistically please,

How does a future pediatric dentist pay for a home, a practice, and pay off $500,000 worth of school loans in Texas? Is it doable? What am I missing here? No family and young. Will I ever be able to have the lifestyle where I am able to have financial independence? The thought is scaring me, will I ever be profitable? Is buying a ranch off the table? 😔

Please give me some hope here folks.

I graduated in 2012...and a decade of dentistry has flown by. I would say that be older doctors do not know what it's like to be a new grad now-adays. Back in their day, things were much different then they are today. I would even argue that dentistry has changed tremendously after covid and that a pre-pandemic graduate has a different perspective then a post-pandemic graduate.

If you asked me pre-pandemic- if I would advise people to go into dentistry and in addition- leave my practice to my kid....I would of said yes. Go to a school with low debt, keep expenses low, and pass on the practice to your kids...but today- after the pandemic, I would say dentistry has changed for the worse and that I do not plan on passing on the practice to the kids, but rather most likely selling in a few years and semi-retiring working in corporate clinics.

Dentistry after the pandemic has changed alot because the margins have squeezed by wage inflation, supply inflation, rent inflation. 2012-2020 I never felt this way, but today, it feels like every second invoice I get is saying "we are raising prices" and my employees are asking for raises- which in a span of a year went from 50 to 65 to 75. I remember working as a new grad and getting 50$ an hour as a dentist. Today new grad hygienists are asking 75$ starting. It's cheaper to hire a new grad dentist today- then it is to hire a hygienist.

So my thoughts today is to save money, invest wisely, and have goals. The bottom line is that 4 days a week, Tesla, big house, and big practice going on vacation every other month- those days are gone. I would argue- it's been gone a long long long time. Prepare to work hard and to have a gameplan to tackle your debt. Here in washington alone: a decent practice would cost 800k, a starter home 800k. That's 1.6 mil in loans with 500k student loans, 2.1 mil in loans and that's not including kids. That's tough for anyone. Best of luck.

So where is the optimism? The optimism is that if you BUDGET and live FRUGAL and are SMART with finances- maybe you can be out of debt in mid 30's? and maybe retire early? The pessimism in me says that there are alot of older docs 50+ that just overstretched their budgets and have to keep working to keep up with their lifestyle and can't retire early. So with your current debt and if you don't budget well, you will have a mountain to climb by 50-60. So don't be like that.

 

[charlestweed]

I graduated in 2012...and a decade of dentistry has flown by. I would say that be older doctors do not know what it's like to be a new grad now-adays. Back in their day, things were much different then they are today. I would even argue that dentistry has changed tremendously after covid and that a pre-pandemic graduate has a different perspective then a post-pandemic graduate.

If you asked me pre-pandemic- if I would advise people to go into dentistry and in addition- leave my practice to my kid....I would of said yes. Go to a school with low debt, keep expenses low, and pass on the practice to your kids...but today- after the pandemic, I would say dentistry has changed for the worse and that I do not plan on passing on the practice to the kids, but rather most likely selling in a few years and semi-retiring working in corporate clinics.

Dentistry after the pandemic has changed alot because the margins have squeezed by wage inflation, supply inflation, rent inflation. 2012-2020 I never felt this way, but today, it feels like every second invoice I get is saying "we are raising prices" and my employees are asking for raises- which in a span of a year went from 50 to 65 to 75. I remember working as a new grad and getting 50$ an hour as a dentist. Today new grad hygienists are asking 75$ starting. It's cheaper to hire a new grad dentist today- then it is to hire a hygienist.

So my thoughts today is to save money, invest wisely, and have goals. The bottom line is that 4 days a week, Tesla, big house, and big practice going on vacation every other month- those days are gone. I would argue- it's been gone a long long long time. Prepare to work hard and to have a gameplan to tackle your debt. Here in washington alone: a decent practice would cost 800k, a starter home 800k. That's 1.6 mil in loans with 500k student loans, 2.1 mil in loans and that's not including kids. That's tough for anyone. Best of luck.

So where is the optimism? The optimism is that if you BUDGET and live FRUGAL and are SMART with finances- maybe you can be out of debt in mid 30's? and maybe retire early? The pessimism in me says that there are alot of older docs 50+ that just overstretched their budgets and have to keep working to keep up with their lifestyle and can't retire early. So with your current debt and if you don't budget well, you will have a mountain to climb by 50-60. So don't be like that.

At least we, dentist owners, got the PPP money to pay our staff while our practices were closed due to Covid. That was the best 2 month vacation, I've ever had. And everything was paid for. It’s great to live in this country, isn’t it?

Even with the higher cost of hiring a hygienist post-covid era, it’s still a passive income for you. You get paid while your hygienist does all the work. At least your practice is busy enough to hire a hygienist. Here in CA, many dentists have to do their own hygiene because there are not enough patients. Instead of sitting around doing nothing, these dentists clean their patients’ teeth to keep themselves busy. My wife is a periodontist and she doesn't have a hygienist.

$800k for a practice is ridiculously high. One can build one for under $200k. I spent $55k to convert a medical office to an ortho office. And this was in 2018….not 20 years ago. I highly recommend the new grads to work for busy corp offices and learn how to work more efficiently with less staff….and learn how keep the overhead low. So when they are ready set up their own office, they don’t waste money on unnecessary stuff.

The 4 day work week for dentists has been gone a long time ago....long before I graduated and I graduated 20 years ago. I am 51 yo. Not only did I pay off my home mortgage, I also paid off my other rental investment properties. Even being 100% debt-free, I still have to work 19 days a month, which is a full time work schedule. There are a lot of things that still have to be paid for. Property Taxes, HOA, utility bills, home/car/life/business/health/disability insurances (heath insurance a lone $1400 a month for a family of 4), 401k contribution etc. My monthly living budget is still around $17k….or $200k a year. Nothing in life is easy. You want nice things. You have to work hard to earn them. Even with his billion dollar fortune, Elon Musk still works 80 hours a week.

It's hard to make a good living nowadays. There are not a lot of good paying jobs out there, even if you have a college degree. A lot of people are struggling financially during this post covid time. We should be glad that there are still plenty of work for us, dentists, to keep ourselves busy.

 

[D1Bound]

I graduated in 2012...and a decade of dentistry has flown by. I would say that be older doctors do not know what it's like to be a new grad now-adays. Back in their day, things were much different then they are today. I would even argue that dentistry has changed tremendously after covid and that a pre-pandemic graduate has a different perspective then a post-pandemic graduate.

If you asked me pre-pandemic- if I would advise people to go into dentistry and in addition- leave my practice to my kid....I would of said yes. Go to a school with low debt, keep expenses low, and pass on the practice to your kids...but today- after the pandemic, I would say dentistry has changed for the worse and that I do not plan on passing on the practice to the kids, but rather most likely selling in a few years and semi-retiring working in corporate clinics.

Dentistry after the pandemic has changed alot because the margins have squeezed by wage inflation, supply inflation, rent inflation. 2012-2020 I never felt this way, but today, it feels like every second invoice I get is saying "we are raising prices" and my employees are asking for raises- which in a span of a year went from 50 to 65 to 75. I remember working as a new grad and getting 50$ an hour as a dentist. Today new grad hygienists are asking 75$ starting. It's cheaper to hire a new grad dentist today- then it is to hire a hygienist.

So my thoughts today is to save money, invest wisely, and have goals. The bottom line is that 4 days a week, Tesla, big house, and big practice going on vacation every other month- those days are gone. I would argue- it's been gone a long long long time. Prepare to work hard and to have a gameplan to tackle your debt. Here in washington alone: a decent practice would cost 800k, a starter home 800k. That's 1.6 mil in loans with 500k student loans, 2.1 mil in loans and that's not including kids. That's tough for anyone. Best of luck.

So where is the optimism? The optimism is that if you BUDGET and live FRUGAL and are SMART with finances- maybe you can be out of debt in mid 30's? and maybe retire early? The pessimism in me says that there are alot of older docs 50+ that just overstretched their budgets and have to keep working to keep up with their lifestyle and can't retire early. So with your current debt and if you don't budget well, you will have a mountain to climb by 50-60. So don't be like that.

Those currently in dental school I don't think realize this.

 

[yappy]

Those currently in dental school I don't think realize this.

It really all comes down to debt. It's not uncommon for associates to make 170-220k per year on four days. Assuming someone wants to be a dentist, how is that a bad situation? For reference, the median income in the US is 44k. Even post pandemic, I agree with @jst21121 pre-pandemic assessment that dentistry is okay.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Those currently in dental school I don't think realize this.

How it will feel when reality hits them or they hit reality...

Big Hoss

 

[charlestweed]

It really all comes down to debt. It's not uncommon for associates to make 170-220k per year on four days. Assuming someone wants to be a dentist, how is that a bad situation? For reference, the median income in the US is 44k. Even post pandemic, I agree with @jst21121 pre-pandemic assessment that dentistry is okay.

And if you add another work day, you can bring that income up to $250k/year. If you work 6 days/wk, your income can be close to $300k. If you work like this for the next 3-4 years, you should be able to pay off your $4-500k student loan debt….and you will be debt free before your 30th birthday, assuming that you go to school the traditional route and earn your DDS at 26. It’s not that bad. There are many jobs out there that are way harder than ours. All physicians have to do at least 3 years of low paid hard labor residencies after their med schools. And after their residencies, they continue to work 10+ hours every day for many many years. According to this article, more than half of the physicians report symptom of burnout. Doctors in distress.

Nurses also work long hours....most are females and they don't complain like us, men.

 

[LFA20]

Maybe in rural areas yes but not in most cities young dentist want to live in to socialize and find their ideal partners

It really all comes down to debt. It's not uncommon for associates to make 170-220k per year on four days. Assuming someone wants to be a dentist, how is that a bad situation? For reference, the median income in the US is 44k. Even post pandemic, I agree with @jst21121 pre-pandemic assessment that dentistry is okay.