MD Cheating allegations engulf Dartmouth medical school

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Jeez the entire first half of the article are the students whining about how the school hasn't supported them during the pandemic - which has nothing to do with cheating - then the latter half is basically all of the interviewed students not taking responsibility or claiming they were coerced when they did take responsibility. Is personal accountability just out the window these days?? Why would one's personal laptop ping another website without prompt, coincidentally for only 17 students btw? There is literally no reason for that, Canvas is not a live feed type website where it is updating your status to others continuously. Further, they already eliminated cases where students were allowed to use their course material.. literally supporting that they successfully caught students using it to access course material.

It is not an unfathomable idea that M1s are cheating a lot more this year. They easily can. If you have a second laptop, it doesn't matter if you have kill switch test software or not. I've already had classmates admit to me they've been looking stuff up on their second laptop and I can easily believe certain students doing so in our more challenging exams. It's sad, but not sure why these students are acting as though it is a totally alien concept.

People these days just cannot take personal accountability and must blame their poor choices on others. "COVID made me do it" "I have no emotional support" "Dartmouth is too aggressive about the claims" OK???? If you cheated, you cheated. Everyone understands that's a death sentence in medical school. Own up.

Side note, I also disagree with Dartmouth's censorship of their students by disallowing disparaging expression. That is pretty concerning. Any federal funds should be cut immediately if they're receiving it/actively enforcing censorship.
Is it so unfathomable that a bunch of older docs in admin had barely a layman's understanding of how their technology works then made sweeping accusations based on incomplete information? First, it wasn't only 17 but a total of 40 students in the first cohort - a little less than half of the M1 class. There are tons of good reasons why not everyone is generating these pings - for example, only a certain %age of students could be logged into canvas on multiple devices at a certain point in time. If your laptop looks anything like mine I'm logged into a ton of different websites through multiple tabs and minimized windows I'm not actively using.

You mention the part where they eliminated cases where students were allowed to use their course material - that narrowed down the initial 40 down to 17. However, it would appears a minimum of 7 additional students out of that 17 were quietly exonerated after making arguments similar to the one I'm making (and not to mention after calling in pricey consultants and lawyers).

I agree with you that it isn't such a crazy idea that students are cheating this year but for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread the whole cheating through Canvas thing has to be the stupidest way in the world to cheat, so stupid that it defies credulity to think 10%+ of the class is cheating this way.

You also recognize that cheating is a death sentence in medical school and yet it appears Dartmouth jumped at the opportunity to accuse 40 students of cheating - not "hey we're looking into some suspicious activity we wanted to discuss further with you" but YOU CHEATED, NOW YOU HAVE 48 HOURS TO TALK TO OUR STUDENT CONDUCT COMMITTEE, CHEATER - and a minimum of 75% of those students have since been exonerated. How ham-handed is that? It's astonishing to me that so many accomplished people could act so recklessly and it doesn't appear anyone was around to pump the brakes.

Glad we're on the same page re: the censorship part of this which is really just the icing on the cake.

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Jeez the entire first half of the article are the students whining about how the school hasn't supported them during the pandemic - which has nothing to do with cheating - then the latter half is basically all of the interviewed students not taking responsibility or claiming they were coerced when they did take responsibility. Is personal accountability just out the window these days?? Why would one's personal laptop ping another website without prompt, coincidentally for only 17 students btw? There is literally no reason for that, Canvas is not a live feed type website where it is updating your status to others continuously. Further, they already eliminated cases where students were allowed to use their course material.. literally supporting that they successfully caught students using it to access course material.

It is not an unfathomable idea that M1s are cheating a lot more this year. They easily can. If you have a second laptop, it doesn't matter if you have kill switch test software or not. I've already had classmates admit to me they've been looking stuff up on their second laptop and I can easily believe certain students doing so in our more challenging exams. It's sad, but not sure why these students are acting as though it is a totally alien concept.

People these days just cannot take personal accountability and must blame their poor choices on others. "COVID made me do it" "I have no emotional support" "Dartmouth is too aggressive about the claims" OK???? If you cheated, you cheated. Everyone understands that's a death sentence in medical school. Own up.

Side note, I also disagree with Dartmouth's censorship of their students by disallowing disparaging expression. That is pretty concerning. Any federal funds should be cut immediately if they're receiving it/actively enforcing censorship.
What a masterclass in missing the point.

If it was proven anyone cheated, that would be one thing. But it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt, not even close. Read through prior posts on this thread.

This case is about students being dismissed without decent evidence of wrongdoing.
 
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Couldn't students download the lecture material when they viewed it originally, then access that during an exam without pining Canvas?

Inspect what you expect. If you don't want students to access lecture material during exams then give in-person exams. Anything else is fraught with unfairness or misunderstanding. I get 'honor codes' blah blah but if you don't make any reasonable effort to enforce closed book-exams then you put every other student into some weird prisoners dilemma where they have to weigh the value of their integrity versus the certain knowledge that many of their classmates are cheating.
 
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Couldn't students download the lecture material when they viewed it originally, then access that during an exam without pining Canvas?

Inspect what you expect. If you don't want students to access lecture material during exams then give in-person exams. Anything else is fraught with unfairness or misunderstanding. I get 'honor codes' blah blah but if you don't make any reasonable effort to enforce closed book-exams then you put every other student into some weird prisoners dilemma where they have to weigh the value of their integrity versus the certain knowledge that many of their classmates are cheating.
I don't condone cheating during exams and don't want to excuse it but to extend your point here it seems like the school also robbed students of the opportunity to exonerate themselves with these at-home, non-proctored exams. It's a lot easier to prove someone's innocence when there's video evidence of the student not leafing through course materials or looking at a separate device during the exam. Essentially, students are not getting the benefit of the doubt because administrators couldn't get it together.
 
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What a masterclass in missing the point.

If it was proven anyone cheated, that would be one thing. But it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt, not even close. Read through prior posts on this thread.

This case is about students being dismissed without decent evidence of wrongdoing.

I believe your missed point was my case to state that it'd be impossible to ping academic sites while they were in the middle of the test unless they were actively using it. I believe that was the school's evidence and first notion to reach out to these students in the first place. My other point was that if they charged some students, following use of this same piece of evidence, to then dismiss those charges because it was found - yes, they were using the site during their exam, but it was actually allowed in those circumstances - then that to me confirms a sensitive and specific method for seeking out evidence and should likewise be used against those who accessed the site when they weren't allowed to, aka cheated.

Couldn't students download the lecture material when they viewed it originally, then access that during an exam without pining Canvas?

Inspect what you expect. If you don't want students to access lecture material during exams then give in-person exams. Anything else is fraught with unfairness or misunderstanding. I get 'honor codes' blah blah but if you don't make any reasonable effort to enforce closed book-exams then you put every other student into some weird prisoners dilemma where they have to weigh the value of their integrity versus the certain knowledge that many of their classmates are cheating.

This is laughable. The school is not responsible for teaching adult individuals integrity and self-control; especially individuals who are pursuing a career which requires a lot of integrity and discretion. If a student cannot make the right decision that cheating is never okay, despite other classmates doing it, that is on them and them only. Like I said, I have plenty of classmates around me that have cheated. I understand the lack of integrity it would require for me to hop on that train, ergo I don't do it, even if I score a bit below them maintaining my value in not cheating on a test. I've never had the temptation to do it aside from an amusing daydream. I don't have to have someone over my shoulder to enforce that, and blaming the school because "they can't help themselves" is the kind of lack of personal accountability that is so riddled in our generation.
 
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I believe your missed point was my case to state that it'd be impossible to ping academic sites while they were in the middle of the test unless they were actively using it. I believe that was the school's evidence and first notion to reach out to these students in the first place. My other point was that if they charged some students, following use of this same piece of evidence, to then dismiss those charges because it was found - yes, they were using the site during their exam, but it was actually allowed in those circumstances - then that to me confirms a sensitive and specific method for seeking out evidence and should likewise be used against those who accessed the site when they weren't allowed to, aka cheated.



This is laughable. The school is not responsible for teaching adult individuals integrity and self-control; especially individuals who are pursuing a career which requires a lot of integrity and discretion. If a student cannot make the right decision that cheating is never okay, despite other classmates doing it, that is on them and them only. Like I said, I have plenty of classmates around me that have cheated. I understand the lack of integrity it would require for me to hop on that train, ergo I don't do it, even if I score a bit below them maintaining my value in not cheating on a test. I've never had the temptation to do it aside from an amusing daydream. I don't have to have someone over my shoulder to enforce that, and blaming the school because "they can't help themselves" is the kind of lack of personal accountability that is so riddled in our generation.
Please read prior posts in this thread about how Canvas technology works, how it actively pings the website, the probabilistic case that false positives are extremely likely, and how Dartmouth has refused to release the full data.

The fact that you think “Canvas being pinged = human use” means you clearly are out of the loop.

You’re as ignorant at the admins that caused this mess. No one here is condoning cheating. We are refusing to condone punishment without fair and due process.
 
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Jeez the entire first half of the article are the students whining about how the school hasn't supported them during the pandemic - which has nothing to do with cheating - then the latter half is basically all of the interviewed students not taking responsibility or claiming they were coerced when they did take responsibility. Is personal accountability just out the window these days?? Why would one's personal laptop ping another website without prompt, coincidentally for only 17 students btw? There is literally no reason for that, Canvas is not a live feed type website where it is updating your status to others continuously. Further, they already eliminated cases where students were allowed to use their course material.. literally supporting that they successfully caught students using it to access course material.

It is not an unfathomable idea that M1s are cheating a lot more this year. They easily can. If you have a second laptop, it doesn't matter if you have kill switch test software or not. I've already had classmates admit to me they've been looking stuff up on their second laptop and I can easily believe certain students doing so in our more challenging exams. It's sad, but not sure why these students are acting as though it is a totally alien concept.

People these days just cannot take personal accountability and must blame their poor choices on others. "COVID made me do it" "I have no emotional support" "Dartmouth is too aggressive about the claims" OK???? If you cheated, you cheated. Everyone understands that's a death sentence in medical school. Own up.

Side note, I also disagree with Dartmouth's censorship of their students by disallowing disparaging expression. That is pretty concerning. Any federal funds should be cut immediately if they're receiving it/actively enforcing censorship.

boomer alert.

Tell you what, download wireshark and see how many things are pinged each day without your knowledge.
 
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I believe your missed point was my case to state that it'd be impossible to ping academic sites while they were in the middle of the test unless they were actively using it. I believe that was the school's evidence and first notion to reach out to these students in the first place. My other point was that if they charged some students, following use of this same piece of evidence, to then dismiss those charges because it was found - yes, they were using the site during their exam, but it was actually allowed in those circumstances - then that to me confirms a sensitive and specific method for seeking out evidence and should likewise be used against those who accessed the site when they weren't allowed to, aka cheated.



This is laughable. The school is not responsible for teaching adult individuals integrity and self-control; especially individuals who are pursuing a career which requires a lot of integrity and discretion. If a student cannot make the right decision that cheating is never okay, despite other classmates doing it, that is on them and them only. Like I said, I have plenty of classmates around me that have cheated. I understand the lack of integrity it would require for me to hop on that train, ergo I don't do it, even if I score a bit below them maintaining my value in not cheating on a test. I've never had the temptation to do it aside from an amusing daydream. I don't have to have someone over my shoulder to enforce that, and blaming the school because "they can't help themselves" is the kind of lack of personal accountability that is so riddled in our generation.



Okay check it out I'm most likely not in your generation, first of all.


Second of all, your school is doing *you* a disservice if they are unwilling to enforce testing policy with your fellow classmates.

I'm not condoning cheating, however as a system this is completely stupid. You are going to have classes where a significant amount of people cheat and you are going to fry a handful of them because they got caught. Meantime everyone is in a situation where they have to rely on the fact that no one is cheating in order for it to be fair to them, except they have no reasonable expectation of that.
 
I’m not an IT guy but how would you reconcile the fact that Canvas logs you out after a certain period of time, so any activity at all essentially means you logged in during the test. I don’t know if it’s universal but at my school we were auto logged after 20 minutes of inactivity whether it was a PC, iPhone, iPad, Android, etc.

My schools IT department isn’t exactly the cream of the crop so I doubt they set it up that way themselves.

I’m skeptical about all these people being innocent because I’ve proctored preclinical exams including anatomy and neuro practicals, quizzes, and exams in-person and have caught 5 people blatantly cheating.

That's definitely not universal. I can stay logged into Canvas for a week if not longer on my Windows 10 PC or MacBook. I've never been automatically logged out of the Canvas app on my Android phone either.
 
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I’m not an IT guy but how would you reconcile the fact that Canvas logs you out after a certain period of time, so any activity at all essentially means you logged in during the test. I don’t know if it’s universal but at my school we were auto logged after 20 minutes of inactivity whether it was a PC, iPhone, iPad, Android, etc.

My schools IT department isn’t exactly the cream of the crop so I doubt they set it up that way themselves.

I’m skeptical about all these people being innocent because I’ve proctored preclinical exams including anatomy and neuro practicals, quizzes, and exams in-person and have caught 5 people blatantly cheating.
I think the last time I logged into Canvas on my iPad or smartphone was the last time I changed my password - which had to be at least a month ago, I think. Maybe longer. It just automatically pulls up every time.
 
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I’m not an IT guy but how would you reconcile the fact that Canvas logs you out after a certain period of time, so any activity at all essentially means you logged in during the test. I don’t know if it’s universal but at my school we were auto logged after 20 minutes of inactivity whether it was a PC, iPhone, iPad, Android, etc.

My schools IT department isn’t exactly the cream of the crop so I doubt they set it up that way themselves.

I’m skeptical about all these people being innocent because I’ve proctored preclinical exams including anatomy and neuro practicals, quizzes, and exams in-person and have caught 5 people blatantly cheating.
At least at my school, I don't get autologged out of Canvas on my laptop unless its been more than 24 hours since I did anything. On my phone, I don't think I've had to log in since downloading the app.
 
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Found it on reddit too.



Here are the contents of the article:

HANOVER, N.H. — Sirey Zhang, a first-year student at Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine, was on spring break in March when he received an email from administrators accusing him of cheating.

Dartmouth had reviewed Mr. Zhang’s online activity on Canvas, its learning management system, during three remote exams, the email said. The data indicated that he had looked up course material related to one question during each test, honor code violations that could lead to expulsion, the email said.

Mr. Zhang, 22, said he had not cheated. But when the school’s student affairs office suggested he would have a better outcome if he expressed remorse and pleaded guilty, he said he felt he had little choice but to agree. Now he faces suspension and a misconduct mark on his academic record that could derail his dream of becoming a pediatrician. “What has happened to me in the last month, despite not cheating, has resulted in one of the most terrifying, isolating experiences of my life,” said Mr. Zhang, who has filed an appeal.

He is one of 17 medical students whom Dartmouth recently accused of cheating on remote tests while in-person exams were shut down because of the coronavirus. The allegations have prompted an on-campus protest, letters of concern to school administrators from more than two dozen faculty members and complaints of unfair treatment from the student government, turning the pastoral Ivy League campus into a national battleground over escalating school surveillance during the pandemic.

At the heart of the accusations is Dartmouth’s use of the Canvas system to retroactively track student activity during remote exams without their knowledge. In the process, the medical school may have overstepped by using certain online activity data to try to pinpoint cheating, leading to some erroneous accusations, according to independent technology experts, a review of the software code and school documents obtained by The New York Times.

Dartmouth’s drive to root out cheating provides a sobering case study of how the coronavirus has accelerated colleges’ reliance on technology, normalizing student tracking in ways that are likely to endure after the pandemic.

While universities have long used anti-plagiarism software and other anti-cheating apps, the pandemic has pushed hundreds of schools that switched to remote learning to embrace more invasive tools. Over the last year, many have required students to download software that can take over their computers during remote exams or use webcams to monitor their eye movements for possibly suspicious activity, even as technology experts have warned that such tools can be invasive, insecure, unfair and inaccurate.

Some universities are now facing a backlash over the technology. A few, including the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, recently said they would cease using the exam-monitoring tools.

“These kinds of technical solutions to academic misconduct seem like a magic bullet,” said Shaanan Cohney, a cybersecurity lecturer at the University of Melbourne who researches remote learning software. But “universities which lack some of the structure or the expertise to understand these issues on a deeper level end up running into really significant trouble.”
At Dartmouth, the use of Canvas in the cheating investigation was unusual because the software was not designed as a forensic tool. Instead, professors post assignments on it and students submit their homework through it. That has raised questions about Dartmouth’s methodology. While some students may have cheated, technology experts said, it would be difficult for a disciplinary committee to distinguish cheating from noncheating based on the data snapshots that Dartmouth provided to accused students. And in an analysis of the Canvas software code, The Times found instances in which the system automatically generated activity data even when no one was using a device. “If other schools follow the precedent that Dartmouth is setting here, any student can be accused based on the flimsiest technical evidence,” said Cooper Quintin, senior staff technologist at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights organization, who analyzed Dartmouth’s methodology.

Seven of the 17 accused students have had their cases dismissed. In at least one of those cases, administrators said, “automated Canvas processes are likely to have created the data that was seen rather than deliberate activity by the user,” according to a school email that students made public.

The 10 others have been expelled, suspended or received course failures and unprofessional-conduct marks on their records that could curtail their medical careers. Nine pleaded guilty, including Mr. Zhang, according to school documents; some have filed appeals.

Some accused students said Dartmouth had hamstrung their ability to defend themselves. They said they had less than 48 hours to respond to the charges, were not provided complete data logs for the exams, were advised to plead guilty though they denied cheating or were given just two minutes to make their case in online hearings, according to six of the students and a review of documents.

Five of the students declined to be named for fear of reprisals by Dartmouth.

Duane A. Compton, the dean of the Geisel School, said in an interview that its methods for identifying possible cheating cases were fair and valid. Administrators investigated carefully, he said, and provided accused students with all the data on which the cheating charges were based. He denied that the student affairs office had advised those who said they had not cheated to plead guilty.

Dr. Compton acknowledged that the investigation had caused distress on campus. But he said Geisel, founded in 1797 and one of the nation’s oldest medical schools, was obligated to hold its students accountable. “We take academic integrity very seriously,” he said. “We wouldn’t want people to be able to be eligible for a medical license without really having the appropriate training.”

Instructure, the company that owns Canvas, did not return requests for comment.

A Hunt Begins

In January, a faculty member reported possible cheating during remote exams, Dr. Compton said. Geisel opened an investigation.

To hinder online cheating, Geisel requires students to turn on ExamSoft — a separate tool that prevents them from looking up study materials during tests — on the laptop or tablet on which they take exams. The school also requires students to keep a backup device nearby. The faculty member’s report made administrators concerned that some students may have used their backup device to look at course material on Canvas while taking tests on their primary device.

Geisel’s Committee on Student Performance and Conduct, a faculty group with student members that investigates academic integrity cases, then asked the school’s technology staff to audit Canvas activity during 18 remote exams that all first- and second-year students had taken during the academic year. The review looked at more than 3,000 exams since last fall.

The tech staff then developed a system to recognize online activity patterns that might signal cheating, said Sean McNamara, Dartmouth’s senior director of information security. The pattern typically showed activity on a Canvas course home page — on, say, neurology — during an exam followed by activity on a Canvas study page, like a practice quiz, related to the test question.

“You see that pattern of essentially a human reading the content and selecting where they’re going on the page,” Mr. McNamara said. “The data is very clear in describing that behavior.”

The audit identified 38 potential cheating cases. But the committee quickly eliminated some of those because one professor had directed students to use Canvas, Dr. Compton said.

In emails sent in mid-March, the committee told the 17 accused students that an analysis showed they had been active on relevant Canvas pages during one or more exams. The emails contained spreadsheets with the exam’s name, the test question number, time stamps and the names of Canvas pages that showed online activity.

Questions Arise
Almost immediately, questions emerged over whether the committee had mistaken automated activity on Canvas for human activity, based on a limited subset of exam data.

Geisel students said they often had dozens of course pages open on Canvas, which they rarely logged out of. Those pages can automatically generate activity data even when no one is looking at them, according to The Times’s analysis and technology experts.

School officials said that their analysis, which they hired a legal consulting firm to validate, discounted automated activity and that accused students had been given all necessary data in their cases.

But at least two students told the committee in March that the audit had misinterpreted automated Canvas activity as human cheating. The committee dismissed the charges against them.

In another case, a professor notified the committee that the Canvas pages used as evidence contained no information related to the exam questions his student was accused of cheating on, according to an analysis submitted to the committee. The student has appealed.

The committee has also not provided students with the wording of the exam questions they were accused of cheating on, complete Canvas activity logs for the exams, the amount of time spent on each Canvas page and data on whether the system flagged their page activity as automated or user-initiated, according to documents.

Dartmouth declined to comment on the data issues, citing the appeals. Mr. Quintin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation compared Dartmouth’s methods to accusing someone of stealing a piece of fruit in a grocery store by presenting a snapshot of that person touching an orange, but not releasing video footage showing whether the person later put back the orange, bought it or pocketed it without paying.

Dr. Compton said the committee’s dismissal of cases over time validated its methodology.

“The fact that we had a large number of students and we were very deliberate about eliminating a large, large fraction or majority of those students from consideration,” he said, “I think actually makes the case well for us trying to be really careful about this.”

Campus Tensions

Tensions flared in early April when an anonymous student account on Instagram posted about the cheating charges. Soon after, Dartmouth issued a social media policy warning that students’ anonymous posts “may still be traced back” to them.

Around the same time, Geisel administrators held a virtual forum and were barraged with questions about the investigation. The conduct review committee then issued decisions in 10 of the cases, telling several students that they would be expelled, suspending others and requiring some to retake courses or repeat a year of school at a cost of nearly $70,000.

Many on campus were outraged. On April 21, dozens of students in white lab coats gathered in the rain in front of Dr. Compton’s office to protest. Some held signs that said “BELIEVE YOUR STUDENTS” and “DUE PROCESS FOR ALL” in indigo letters, which dissolved in the rain into blue splotches. Several students said they were now so afraid of being unfairly targeted in a data-mining dragnet that they had pushed the medical school to offer in-person exams with human proctors. Others said they had advised prospective medical students against coming to Dartmouth.

“Some students have built their whole lives around medical school and now they’re being thrown out like they’re worthless,” said Meredith Ryan, a fourth-year medical student not connected to the investigation.

That same day, more than two dozen members of Dartmouth’s faculty wrote a letter to Dr. Compton saying that the cheating inquiry had created “deep mistrust” on campus and that the school should “make amends with the students falsely accused.”

In an email to students and faculty a week later, Dr. Compton apologized that Geisel’s handling of the cases had “added to the already high levels of stress and alienation” of the pandemic and said the school was working to improve its procedures.

The medical school has already made one change that could reduce the risk of false cheating allegations. For remote exams, new guidelines said, students are now “expected to log out of Canvas on all devices prior to testing.”

Mr. Zhang, the first-year student, said the investigation had shaken his faith in an institution he loves. He had decided to become a doctor, he said, to address disparities in health care access after he won a fellowship as a Dartmouth undergraduate to study medicine in Tanzania.

Mr. Zhang said he felt compelled to speak publicly to help reform a process he found traumatizing.

“I’m terrified,” he said. “But if me speaking up means that there’s at least one student in the future who doesn’t have to feel the way that I did, then it’s all worthwhile.”
 
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If this ever gets litigated, Netflix should make it into an original series: Making A Cheater. Seems like it would be a hit here. Am I the only one who doesn't find this topic interesting? They either cheated or they didn't. (To be fair, I rant on plenty of things people don't find interesting).
 
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If this ever gets litigated, Netflix should make it into an original series: Making A Cheater. Seems like it would be a hit here. Am I the only one who doesn't find this topic interesting? They either cheated or they didn't. (To be fair, I rant on plenty of things people don't find interesting).
I find the mishandling of the response much more interesting than the crime

And the severity of the consequence- a premature end to like a dozen ivy students medical careers - heightens the drama a lot
 
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I find the mishandling of the response much more interesting than the crime

And the severity of the consequence- a premature end to like a dozen ivy students medical careers - heightens the drama a lot
That's fair. I do agree. Dartmouth kind of messed up their response. Just been skimming this thread without reading the articles, but basically they expelled students (pre-emptively without due process or technical understanding) and then cracked down on social media posts? Seems very authoritarian.
 
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These medical school admins know they can destroy a life if they want. We sign so many BS forms that say we will act in certain ways and not engage in certain things that if the medical school has it out for you, they can find a way to suspend/expel probably 80-90% of students. It's all such a horsesh** game. Luckily my med school admin are not vindictive and are generally supportive but I know that is not the case in general.
 
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These medical school admins know they can destroy a life if they want. We sign so many BS forms that say we will act in certain ways and not engage in certain things that if the medical school has it out for you, they can find a way to suspend/expel probably 80-90% of students. It's all such a horsesh** game. Luckily my med school admin are not vindictive and are generally supportive but I know that is not the case in general.
Applies to life in general (as you probably know).
 
Applies to life in general (as you probably know).
Sorry, actually I am not allowed to know things and all knowing of things should be deferred to the medical school admin according to page 32 of the student conduct code which I signed 3 years ago after matriculating to my medical school.
 
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I don’t know how Dartmouth can come out of this looking like anything but a monster, and they shouldn’t. They accused completely innocent students of cheating without having done their due diligence before making the accusation. It doesn’t appear they made any sort of appropriate apology either. Maybe those 3 who were expelled deserved it, maybe they didn’t, but the school was irresponsible and cruel to students at a time when they need support the most. This should cost people their jobs at the very least.

Agreed. The worst part of it is, I wouldn't even call what the students did cheating. The difference is the students in this case cheated negligently, at worst. If they had known how not to get caught the school would've been none the wiser. Most cheating such as stealing exams, having someone take the exam for you, or bringing in a cheat sheet to an exam a proctored exam is purposeful. You knew what you were doing, you know what the consequences were and you did it anyway.

Someone could "cheat" but not have gotten caught so long as they didn't access Canvas materials. They can use literally everything else. So a student might have cheated by looking at Canvas materials on a second device, and the school had a valid means of gathering evidence. Its fine if they took issue with students doing that, but instead of raising the issue immediately they chose to spend months gathering evidence against people who were doing exactly what administrators were the positions were reversed. I'd liken it to sending someone to jail for shoplifting because the cashier threw an item in the bag and ringing it up, and the person noticed but didn't saying anything. Sure the right thing to do would be to say something, but can you really blame someone for taking the free Doritos?
 
If this ever gets litigated, Netflix should make it into an original series: Making A Cheater. Seems like it would be a hit here. Am I the only one who doesn't find this topic interesting? They either cheated or they didn't. (To be fair, I rant on plenty of things people don't find interesting).
It absolutely will be litigated. And I don’t see a way for Dartmouth to win. Even if the 3 people expelled are 100% guilty and deserved it, the way in which the whole process was handled, data was reportedly manipulated, many were accused, etc. any decent lawyer would have a field day poking holes in Dartmouth’s argument.

sadly though we won’t hear about it, as it will end up in a settlement with NDAs on all sides. And it will be a pricey one. Like suing for 400k/year of lost earnings x 30 years plus punitives pricey, though setter value will obviously be less.
 
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Even though Darmouth loses and the students win the damage is done. How long will it take to win? It will be a black mark on application to residences and Darmouth holds all the power. Residences have so many choices I'm sure they will pass on this drama. That student who named themselves in the article is a fool.
A lot of $$$ could be won, and the 20 something year old could move on with their life in a different direction. Administrators can be accountable as well, likely jobs would be lost. Not what the student was aiming for certainly, but may walk away from one year of med school with beaucoup bucks.
 
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That student who named themselves in the article is a fool.
I wonder what he thought would be gained from using his name. The article would have been equally impactful if they had reported his story anonymously. Now, even if he is exonerated, this will be the first thing that comes up if anyone searches his name.

In any case, I hope things work out for him. I can't imagine being in his shoes, especially if what he says is true and he didn't actually cheat.
 
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These medical school admins know they can destroy a life if they want. We sign so many BS forms that say we will act in certain ways and not engage in certain things that if the medical school has it out for you, they can find a way to suspend/expel probably 80-90% of students. It's all such a horsesh** game. Luckily my med school admin are not vindictive and are generally supportive but I know that is not the case in general.

Much like checking facebook at work, or the USA naturalisation form that asks you if you have ever tried to (or will try to) overthrow the government, it is all held on to until they need a reason to fire/deport you and then say “Aahaaa, you lied on a government form” which is a No-No so back you go.

The checking of FB etc gets morphed into a “professionalism” issue eventhough everyone is on it all the time
 
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Sure but the point being dartmouth doesnt care.

Trust me. They care. Med school admins job is to collect checks and move students through with minimal fuss. A NYT article bashing the school is fuss. This will effect school prestige, yield, applications/admission rate, financial aid ( Need to offer more to get equivalent students) all of which will lower rankings, which could cost some folks their jobs. Yes they will fill their class with qualified students but that is not the standard they are being measured against. This could effect fundraising, which is the Dean’s main job. There will be lawsuits, that will be expensive to defend even if they win. The Dean answers to a board of directors, who almost certainty are unhappy about the present situation.

At this point it is a toss up to see if admin sticks to their guns, which seems to be cutting off their nose to spite their face, or pulls a 180.

If I’m a dean or director of med Ed and want to have a job next year, I publicly accounce a mea culpa, that in our zealous pursuit of academic integrity amidst unprecedented circumstances we stretched the use of our IT tools beyond their reliability. While we believe our concerns were valid, in the interest of ensuring no innocents are harmed no punishments will be given as a result. We will be doing XY and Z to ensure integrity of all future exams moving forward.

PM me to purchase the license to this or any future PR statements.
 
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Trust me. They care. Med school admins job is to collect checks and move students through with minimal fuss. A NYT article bashing the school is fuss. This will effect school prestige, yield, applications/admission rate, financial aid ( Need to offer more to get equivalent students) all of which will lower rankings, which could cost some folks their jobs. Yes they will fill their class with qualified students but that is not the standard they are being measured against. This could effect fundraising, which is the Dean’s main job. There will be lawsuits, that will be expensive to defend even if they win. The Dean answers to a board of directors, who almost certainty are unhappy about the present situation.

At this point it is a toss up to see if admin sticks to their guns, which seems to be cutting off their nose to spite their face, or pulls a 180.

If I’m a dean or director of med Ed and want to have a job next year, I publicly accounce a mea culpa, that in our zealous pursuit of academic integrity amidst unprecedented circumstances we stretched the use of our IT tools beyond their reliability. While we believe our concerns were valid, in the interest of ensuring no innocents are harmed no punishments will be given as a result. We will be doing XY and Z to ensure integrity of all future exams moving forward.

PM me to purchase the license to this or any future PR statements.

this is the only course of action that makes sense

which is why I will make popcorn and watch them burn themselves when they don’t do this, and double down on their witch hunt
 
Can someone help me understand why they should change their approach aside from someone with connections had a lawyer with connections and contacted the NYTimes?
This seems like a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario, on both the students' end and the administration's end.
 
Trust me. They care. Med school admins job is to collect checks and move students through with minimal fuss. A NYT article bashing the school is fuss. This will effect school prestige, yield, applications/admission rate, financial aid ( Need to offer more to get equivalent students) all of which will lower rankings, which could cost some folks their jobs. Yes they will fill their class with qualified students but that is not the standard they are being measured against. This could effect fundraising, which is the Dean’s main job. There will be lawsuits, that will be expensive to defend even if they win. The Dean answers to a board of directors, who almost certainty are unhappy about the present situation.

At this point it is a toss up to see if admin sticks to their guns, which seems to be cutting off their nose to spite their face, or pulls a 180.

If I’m a dean or director of med Ed and want to have a job next year, I publicly accounce a mea culpa, that in our zealous pursuit of academic integrity amidst unprecedented circumstances we stretched the use of our IT tools beyond their reliability. While we believe our concerns were valid, in the interest of ensuring no innocents are harmed no punishments will be given as a result. We will be doing XY and Z to ensure integrity of all future exams moving forward.

PM me to purchase the license to this or any future PR statements.
This feels too optimistic.

Because Dartmouth's brand as a mid tier is very likely not going to collapse if they double down on refusing to admit wrongdoing. They can get away imposing stricter admissioms standards on top and still get their pick of good applicants
 
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Can someone help me understand why they should change their approach aside from someone with connections had a lawyer with connections and contacted the NYTimes?
This seems like a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario, on both the students' end and the administration's end.
Honestly it's more proof how wealthy and well connected the average med student is.
 
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This feels too optimistic.

Because Dartmouth's brand as a mid tier is very likely not going to collapse if they double down on refusing to admit wrongdoing. They can get away imposing stricter admissioms standards on top and still get their pick of good applicants
Agreed. I'm much more cynical. We all here are looking through the lens having gone through a decent amount of medical school. We know the pettiness behind this and how Dartmouth may have (effectively) ruined 10 lives. There are just too many competitive premeds on the other side who think getting into medical school is life or death who will see this as 10 students cheating trying to get off on a technicality and virtue signal on Dartmouth's behalf on social media if they need to to get in. This isn't the Pfizer/Moderna vs. J&J showdown in the U.S. It's in India.
 
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Agreed. I'm much more cynical. Having gone through part of or all of medical school to know life isn't set when you enter medical school, we know Dartmouth may have (effectively) ruined 10 lives. There are just too many competitive premed on the other side who think getting into medical school is life or death. Add that to the fact that it's Dartmouth, somewhere in the top 25% of schools. This isn't Pfizer vs. J&J in the U.S., it's in India.
Best thing to do is to not get into admin's bad side (or even better, get into their good sides as much as possible). It sounds manipulative af but when schools have way too much power, it's critical to be as deferential as possible until graduating. This is something i have learned very early from my K12 education
 
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“the medical school released a new social media policy that warned students against disparaging members of the medical school, adding that anonymous posters could be identified.”

I don’t like that part one bit.
An anonymous poster on Reddit was identified at my school and punished after talking about how some rotation sites during 3rd year could be better.
 
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How is it even possible to identify an anonymous poster on Reddit.
Very easy. 17 students were accused of cheating. The Reddit post could have narrowed the gender and situation to narrow it to one person. Most of on here could be easily identified if someone really wanted to.
 
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Very easy. 17 students were accused of cheating. The Reddit post could have narrowed the gender and situation to narrow it to one person. Most of on here could be easily identified if someone really wanted to.
I got doxxed with a picture of me and everything a few years ago. Theres no such thing as privacy on the internet

As far as the guy in the article, I guess if a school is already about to kick you out, you dont have much left to lose by identifying yourself and trying to garner some support from the public
 
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How is it even possible to identify an anonymous poster on Reddit.
If you've posted identifying information in the past it can be pretty easy. Or maybe you use the same user name for your SoundCloud account and your name is listed there.
 
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An anonymous poster on Reddit was identified at my school and punished after talking about how some rotation sites during 3rd year could be better.
I remember bringing up an issue like this during my second year. I said something like “people prefer these sites because they provide a more well rounded experience” to which our clinical education dean said “be careful now, ALL our rotation sites are fantastic." That’s when I learned to keep my mouth shut, because the people in charge don’t actually care about improving things.
 
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If you've posted identifying information in the past it can be pretty easy. Or maybe you use the same user name for your SoundCloud account and your name is listed there.
There are probably 4 people here who know exactly who I am (Facebook friends now), and there are likely a few more who can infer from shared Facebook friends. I try and not share super identifiable info, but that can be hard when I’m just sharing my experiences and many little details can narrow it down quite a bit. I’m just hoping I can stay anonymous through residency.
 
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There are probably 4 people here who know exactly who I am (Facebook friends now), and there are likely a few more who can infer from shared Facebook friends. I try and not share super identifiable info, but that can be hard when I’m just sharing my experiences and many little details can narrow it down quite a bit. I’m just hoping I can stay anonymous through residency.
They found me just by my college and the sport I played. And that was a school with 5000+ students. I'm sure a med school class of 80 could do it with almost nothing
 
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There are probably 4 people here who know exactly who I am (Facebook friends now), and there are likely a few more who can infer from shared Facebook friends. I try and not share super identifiable info, but that can be hard when I’m just sharing my experiences and many little details can narrow it down quite a bit. I’m just hoping I can stay anonymous through residency.

I intentionally change details when I post.
 
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How is it even possible to identify an anonymous poster on Reddit.
it is incredibly easy to identify anonymous posters on the internet, especially if they post a lot about a variety of topics. I've identified multiple people on SDN from my undergrad and med school just from some small aspect of their posts. I would be very easily identifiable if someone from my school cared to put half an ounce of effort in (I'm sure someone has IDed me at this point, though no one has ever said anything irl). This is why you should be willing to stand behind anything you put on the internet.
 
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