Co 22’ application season thread

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Steve_Zissou said:
I’m not doing any away rotations for radiology. I was advised to not do one unless it was specifically IR at a reach program, and I’m not gonna go after IR. I just set up locally so I can get letters of rec.
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Funny how everywhere the advice is different from different advisors/mentors ... I was specifically told that aways are super helpful and to do one LOL
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Are aways worthwhile if trying to match on opposite side of country? I'm already rotating DR and IR at home institution and I've heard that matching radiology outside of home state is not as difficult compared to other specialties. 3 rads rotations seems like a lot.
 
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cybermed2424 said:
Are aways worthwhile if trying to match on opposite side of country? I'm already rotating DR and IR at home institution and I've heard that matching radiology outside of home state is not as difficult compared to other specialties. 3 rads rotations seems like a lot.
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Not for DR. If you want to catch a program's attention, sending a personalized PS with your ERAS app or a letter of interest early in the interview season.
 
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Mnowledge said:
Not for DR. If you want to catch a program's attention, sending a personalized PS with your ERAS app or a letter of interest early in the interview season can catch their attention.
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How early would you recommend letter of interest be sent out? I have no ties to the northern New England area but I'm hoping to end up there for residency (Maine, Vermont, NH) so I figured I would send out a letter of interest in the first few weeks of October maybe? I have no idea tbh.
 
Steve_Zissou said:
How early would you recommend letter of interest be sent out? I have no ties to the northern New England area but I'm hoping to end up there for residency (Maine, Vermont, NH) so I figured I would send out a letter of interest in the first few weeks of October maybe? I have no idea tbh.
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I’m not sure if you have the same timeline that we did last year but I started sending LOIs around 3-4 weeks after programs were able to review our apps.
 
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redsox93 said:
I’m not sure if you have the same timeline that we did last year but I started sending LOIs around 3-4 weeks after programs were able to review our apps.
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It looks like September 29th is the day programs can start reviewing our applications, so 3rd or 4th week of October?

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2025 ERAS® Residency Timeline

Review a timeline for applying for residency positions using ERAS for the 2023 application season.
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Mnowledge said:
Not for DR. If you want to catch a program's attention, sending a personalized PS with your ERAS app or a letter of interest early in the interview season can catch their attention.
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Would it be a waste of time/money/effort to do an away in an area someone wants to end up if they have no ties to the area? I'm trying to match somewhere in the NE for my wife's family, but I have no demonstrated ties to the area myself. I was planning on doing 1-2 aways, but it would be a strain on us for me to go and do that.
 
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Steve_Zissou said:
It looks like September 29th is the day programs can start reviewing our applications, so 3rd or 4th week of October?

students-residents.aamc.org

2025 ERAS® Residency Timeline

Review a timeline for applying for residency positions using ERAS for the 2023 application season.
students-residents.aamc.org students-residents.aamc.org
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The latest you should send an LOI is within a few days of the program's initial or first wave of interview invites.
 
Hippocrates II said:
Would it be a waste of time/money/effort to do an away in an area someone wants to end up if they have no ties to the area? I'm trying to match somewhere in the NE for my wife's family, but I have no demonstrated ties to the area myself. I was planning on doing 1-2 aways, but it would be a strain on us for me to go and do that.
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The problem with DR aways is that you don't really get a lot of facetime with the attending physicians. You work mostly with the residents. Do IR away rotations if you have to - you get more facetime and clinical work with the attendings, which can result in an LoR. I would also focus on institutions where IR faculty serve as DR APD (eg. Hofstra Northshore LIJ).
 
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Let's say I'm from the West Coast (lived there, went to undergrad/med school there) and given the extreme competitiveness of in-state residency programs they basically aren't an option. And other regions of the country think people from the West Coast want to stay on the West Coast.

If I wanted to do one or two aways (DR) in the Midwest or East Coast in August/September to show programs I would be totally open to those regions how would other programs in the region know I even did those rotations? I'm confused about how this info would get relayed to programs.
 
Scrubb said:
Let's say I'm from the West Coast (lived there, went to undergrad/med school there) and given the extreme competitiveness of in-state residency programs they basically aren't an option. And other regions of the country think people from the West Coast want to stay on the West Coast.

If I wanted to do one or two aways (DR) in the Midwest or East Coast in August/September to show programs I would be totally open to those regions how would other programs in the region know I even did those rotations? I'm confused about how this info would get relayed to programs.
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If you did the rotation before you submit ERAS it would show up in your application. If it’s after they will never have any idea. You could send a loi stating you’d done an away in the region if it was after ERAS I suppose
 
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After speaking with residents from my home program, I decided not to do an away DR rotation. They re-iterated the 'may hurt more than it helps' and 'it's hard to impress as a med student' aspect. Instead, I'll do a MICU acting internship at my home institution to get at least some critical care experience before being thrown into the fire as an intern o_O
 
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Generally speaking, the stronger you are on paper, the more likely an away rotation will hurt your application.

That is, a superstar paper applicant is unlikely to benefit much from away rotations.

Conversely, if you are a below average paper applicant, developing connections at a program by getting FaceTime and doing research can be helpful.

The known devil is better than the unknown angel.
 
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How mandatory is a decent amount of research necessary to match into academic programs?
I know for MIR and BWH a good amount is prolly needed for applicants, but what about the mid/low tier academic programs (Cincinnati, LSU, Tulane, Maryland, etc..) I am not currently involved in research and only have one research experience in ortho between year 1 and 2 of med school (luckily ended in publication), but that’s it. Could I still match at one of the latter institutions with little research?
 
eartwj said:
How mandatory is a decent amount of research necessary to match into academic programs?
I know for MIR and BWH a good amount is prolly needed for applicants, but what about the mid/low tier academic programs (Cincinnati, LSU, Tulane, Maryland, etc..) I am not currently involved in research and only have one research experience in ortho between year 1 and 2 of med school (luckily ended in publication), but that’s it. Could I still match at one of the latter institutions with little research?
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I had 0 pubs and a few poster/oral presentations all in unrelated fields. I only applied academic programs. Got interviews from a couple top 20 and the rest of my interviews were mid/high tier academics. You should be fine as long as the rest of your app is solid.
 
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redsox93 said:
I had 0 pubs and a few poster/oral presentations all in unrelated fields. I only applied academic programs. Got interviews from a couple top 20 and the rest of my interviews were mid/high tier academics. You should be fine as long as the rest of your app is solid.
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In your experience applying this past year, do you mean "solid" as in 250+ steps, mix of honors/high pass?
 
eartwj said:
How mandatory is a decent amount of research necessary to match into academic programs?
I know for MIR and BWH a good amount is prolly needed for applicants, but what about the mid/low tier academic programs (Cincinnati, LSU, Tulane, Maryland, etc..) I am not currently involved in research and only have one research experience in ortho between year 1 and 2 of med school (luckily ended in publication), but that’s it. Could I still match at one of the latter institutions with little research?
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Can’t speak for the others but I’m a DO with zero pubs who interviewed at Cincy. Pretty good program that doesn’t mind slummin’ it with the likes of me I guess lol. If you’re an MD with average scores for the field I think it’d be hard to not end up at a university program.
 
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dllsl7 said:
In your experience applying this past year, do you mean "solid" as in 250+ steps, mix of honors/high pass?
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Yeah I think that’d even be above average. I had 235-240/255-260 and 5/7 honors and ended up doing pretty well.
 
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Is an IM LOR necessary for prelims/TY? I have LOR for other core rotations but not from IM or FM
 
If anyone’s a PD or on an interview committee, I’d appreciate advice.

My school has no home rotations, so I’m doing my entire fourth year as aways. Obviously I’m violating the coalition recommendations for only one away because I have to. The coalition also says to only do one rotation per specialty of interest, and this is where things get tricky. Obviously I don’t want to do a whole lot of random aways in fields I’m not interested in.

Do DR, abdominal imaging, msk imaging, and ultrasound rotations have too much overlap? Some students at my school are saying they won’t do a DR subspecialty like msk or ultrasound and DR both because that’s doing more than one rotation per specialty and they don’t want to risk getting called out on it. Is anyone at a program that would crack down hard on this?
 
Throwing my hat in the ring!

For anyone who is applying, here is a nice document that goes over the application process:

Application Guide
 
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Does anyone know which programs won't interview rads applicants without a step 2 ck score? Considering delaying until October as some things have come up delaying my studying and I'm thinking I'll score worse than I did on step 1 (around 260).
 
Caddyologist said:
Hi everyone, I have a few Qs about aways/audition rotations.

1. How late is too late to apply for aways?
I had heard a lot of people saying DR aways aren't very helpful and may be harmful-- but now I am considering applying for aways, to help make connections to a different region. I go to a small unranked USMD school in a different region from where I want to end up for residency.

Is it even worth looking for aways at this point, over a month after many other people have applied? I have a home program... I had previously thought my home program LOR and other strategies like a personalized PS and Letter of Interest would help me get into the region I want to be in. But maybe an away/audition rotation is really the best way...

2. Do aways "open up"/make connections to just the program you do it at? Or, do they also "open up" the region?
Basically, do other programs in the region see that you did an away? Would this helps build a connection to other programs in the region? (not just the specific program you did the away at?)

I am an average applicant for DR. Thank you for the advice!
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There are a couple similar reddit threads addressing this. Coming from a small unranked MD school doesn’t necessarily mean you are not competitive. If the home region you are hoping to match in is highly competitive like NYC/Any part of CA, that is different. In that case, letters of intent and/or an audition could be helpful.

It really depends on your personality. Are you able to look interested (but not be so chatty/engaging that it’s distracting), seem smart, be nice to everyone (but not annoying) for a whole month? Its a lot harder to shine on a rads rotation compared to ICU/IM, and very easy to get on people’s nerves. For most who applied rads, one rotation was enough. FWIW I matched at a program I didn’t audition at.
 
Disclaimer: I just matched rads this past cycle and I am not involved in the resident selection committee. Obviously take everything below w/ a grain of salt. Just doing an away rotation may not open up a region. You need to come off with something more.

I see three broad ways of making an impression at other (out of region) institutions.

1) LoR from audition/research rotation at another institution: As alluded by @km93 , its difficult to make an impression during DR aways. If I was in your boat, I would actually do an IR away, where you can will be far more involved with patient care. If you work hard, you can come off with multiple strong LoRs. However, it is important your LoRs mention that (i) you are primarily interested in DR, and (ii) you are motivated to move to XYZ region. Anecdotally, one of my friends who only applied DR matched at a "top 25" institution and all of his rads letters were from IR faculty. I suspect you can come off with a similarly personalized LoR from a research audition, although it may be difficult to get meaningful research published in the span of a few months.

2) Radiology mentor calling the program and advocating your behalf: Per RadTwitter, this will probably yield the best results. If you perform well in your aways or research auditions, strongly consider this.

3) Specific personal statement, letter of interest: Mostly within your control, although results are variable.
 
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Hey guys not sure if im stupid or not but I cannot seem to find a list of prelim-medicine programs online anywhere. Does every categorical internal medicine program have a prelim program as well?
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
Hey guys not sure if im stupid or not but I cannot seem to find a list of prelim-medicine programs online anywhere. Does every categorical internal medicine program have a prelim program as well?
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Easiest way is from MyERAS portal (Service Temporarily Unavailable - AAMC). Programs --> Search Programs --> internal medicine --> filter by training type --> preliminary.

Note that MyERAS is currently down until June 9, 2021
 
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An update regarding interviews
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I know that before I begin , I will get a lot of comments saying I am not competitive, go to FM, etc. I understand. I appreciate the thought. I know my school also thinks that i'm being unrealistic etc.

happily-single female in 30s. URM type. Interesting life story of overcoming hardships, etc. Engineering at prestigious undergrad, was a TFA secondary school teacher prior to marticulating DO school.

Pretty on DR, but know that it will be a choppy path. Hometown (were I want to live) has 4 radiology programs in its vicinity, 3 academic, 1 community.

--
Didn't do great in med school, bottom quartile. Took a LOA btw 2nd and 3rd year of med school in order to hone in and work on my weak content areas. Im strong in that now, did 25,000 anki cards during that time, et.c

Clinical grades have been high-end of average, good performance so Honoring in most rotations.

Just finishing 3rd year. (6 weeks left)
I haven't taken Step 1 yet and it also means no audition rotation for me.

~ ~ ~ ~ Option 1:
Don't take any LOA, take some easy online 4th year fall electives and take Step 1 by Nov/Dec latest.
Spring 2022: School's radiology elective with an outstanding faculty, and then apply audition rotation and 1 MICU rotation too (for good LOR)
Graduate, take Step2 in the summer (at DO school so step2 isn't required for grad )
apply boardly in Fall 2022.

Leaning towards this option b.c another LOA can raise doubt in mind of PDs if I can complete or meet the demands of residency, etc. Mentally prepared to not match first time (depending on Step1 score of course) and an uphill battle, maybe a research job after graduating.

~ ~ ~ ~ Option 2:
Take LOA in Fall, it's likely that my school will require me to take an entire year (so Im not off cycle) but I will ask anyways.
So take LOA: take step 1 in fall 2021, spring 2022: take step2, research at either of those places with radiology residencies at my school, apply for lots of away rotations in April when VSAS opens

July 2022: Start away rotations which I would have lined up with a decent / good Step 1 score
Sept 2022: Apply broadly
 
KeepCalm11 said:
I know that before I begin , I will get a lot of comments saying I am not competitive, go to FM, etc. I understand. I appreciate the thought. I know my school also thinks that i'm being unrealistic etc.

happily-single female in 30s. URM type. Interesting life story of overcoming hardships, etc. Engineering at prestigious undergrad, was a TFA secondary school teacher prior to marticulating DO school.

Pretty on DR, but know that it will be a choppy path. Hometown (were I want to live) has 4 radiology programs in its vicinity, 3 academic, 1 community.

--
Didn't do great in med school, bottom quartile. Took a LOA btw 2nd and 3rd year of med school in order to hone in and work on my weak content areas. Im strong in that now, did 25,000 anki cards during that time, et.c

Clinical grades have been high-end of average, good performance so Honoring in most rotations.

Just finishing 3rd year. (6 weeks left)
I haven't taken Step 1 yet and it also means no audition rotation for me.

~ ~ ~ ~ Option 1:
Don't take any LOA, take some easy online 4th year fall electives and take Step 1 by Nov/Dec latest.
Spring 2022: School's radiology elective with an outstanding faculty, and then apply audition rotation and 1 MICU rotation too (for good LOR)
Graduate, take Step2 in the summer (at DO school so step2 isn't required for grad )
apply boardly in Fall 2022.

Leaning towards this option b.c another LOA can raise doubt in mind of PDs if I can complete or meet the demands of residency, etc. Mentally prepared to not match first time (depending on Step1 score of course) and an uphill battle, maybe a research job after graduating.

~ ~ ~ ~ Option 2:
Take LOA in Fall, it's likely that my school will require me to take an entire year (so Im not off cycle) but I will ask anyways.
So take LOA: take step 1 in fall 2021, spring 2022: take step2, research at either of those places with radiology residencies at my school, apply for lots of away rotations in April when VSAS opens

July 2022: Start away rotations which I would have lined up with a decent / good Step 1 score
Sept 2022: Apply broadly
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Neither option makes any sense. The best option is no LOA, have step 1 score by the time apps go out, get step 2 knocked out by December. You could spin it as realizing you wanted DR late and didn’t plan on taking step 1 but then decided to work on them both now.

I don’t mean this as condescending or anything like people usually do on this site. But why did your school approve a LOA in the first place? Surely you didn’t just say that you wanted to take a year off to do flash cards but not take any board exams. Do you have a good reason for the first one? Anecdotally, I know of a usmd who had 260 step scores but ended up at a community program. His only red flag was taking a LOA for a family death.

Even if you have amazing step scores, I’m doubtful that anyone will be too impressed if you needed two years of uninterrupted studying to get them.

I think we’ve all worked too hard to not go for what we want. So please do apply DR. But please apply to a realistic backup too.
 
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Ho0v-man said:
Neither option makes any sense. The best option is no LOA, have step 1 score by the time apps go out, get step 2 knocked out by December. You could spin it as realizing you wanted DR late and didn’t plan on taking step 1 but then decided to work on them both now.

I don’t mean this as condescending or anything like people usually do on this site. But why did your school approve a LOA in the first place? Surely you didn’t just say that you wanted to take a year off to do flash cards but not take any board exams. Do you have a good reason for the first one? Anecdotally, I know of a usmd who had 260 step scores but ended up at a community program. His only red flag was taking a LOA for a family death.

Even if you have amazing step scores, I’m doubtful that anyone will be too impressed if you needed two years of uninterrupted studying to get them.

I think we’ve all worked too hard to not go for what we want. So please do apply DR. But please apply to a realistic backup too.
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Agree. Take step 1 (preferably within next month) and get back to us. Would not recommend another LOA. You will likely need an audition at a community program known to take rotators and get them to love you
 
For everyone applying IR/DR, are you applying DR at every program you’re applying to for IR as well? I’m debating doing this just because they obviously have an in-house IR fellowship. There are likely going to be many DR programs without associated IR fellowships that I like better than some of the places that have IR, though… how are you all planning on tackling this?

Also, is this typically one interview or two if you are applying IR/DR at the same program?
 
Second question, sorry for two in a row - but my preceptor was asking me if we still take physics boards after R1. Is that still a thing? I had no clue.
 
Hey guys, anybody have a list of radiology programs that if you match into them, youre automatically put into their prelim med/trans program? I could've sworn there was one being formed on this site but I cant find it.
 
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Hi all currently in PGY1 IM but this wasn't my desired specialty. Not so thrilled about IM, but wondering if its worth it and if I have a good chance to match into Diagnostic radiology when applying to Advanced PGY2 Radiology positions? I know Rad make more and I feel its more intune with my post residency desires, easibility to work from home, better lifestyle, etc.
I have a 230/237, low comlexes, doing well so far in residency, have good EC, research from my last 2 years of medical school. I Could get a good radiology LOR, and IM recs.
Please advise. Thanks!
 
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