Cost of attendance limit that’s worth it

[Ohsnap23]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hey everyone,

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on what point you consider the cost of dental education to be worth it/doable to pay back in a timely manner. I’m hoping my school cost will be about 250-300k (most likely prior to interest). Is this an amount that is acceptable? This is my dream job, but the loans just worry me. I’m a guy who likes to save and not spend much, so this kills me to think about haha. Would love to hear some responses!

 

[Roy Williams]

$200k

 

[free wifi]

I think good amount including the living expense would be 300~350k? But some schools like ASDOH, Midwestern, USC, NYU are 400K just by tuition itself. So be careful where you apply to.

 

[princeafrica]

It’s good you are thinking of this now. Just apply to schools with reasonable COL and don’t be that person that comes on SDN after to tell everyone that they will be rejecting their only acceptance because it will cost them 400k. I think that $300k is reasonable. Beyond that I’d would re-evaluate if this is really what I wanna do and if that’s your only acceptance go for it

 

[Crown95]

Just like you I also worry about paying off loans. For someone like me, I'm hoping to pay off loans quickly so that I can get get financially stability sooner. This isn't to say I want to rush anything and jump straight into my own practice (I just want to be in a place where I can support my parents and help my siblings not worry about money).

Assuming the average salary and raise per year fresh out of school. The after federal income tax is roughly 85-90k a year. Depending on how much you borrowed you will either live a decent life or be beyond broke. As your salary increases then your life becomes more and more manageable*
In my eyes it would be much harder to get your own practice (unless you made friends in the right circles) with any loan amount >325k. This is all do-able there is no one size fits all as everyones situation is different.

The advice I got from my cousin who graduated in 2009 with around 170k in loans was to go cheap and be aggressive with the pay off. She has been debt free for the last 4 years and is saving towards her own practice.

I myself have been blessed with the opportunity to stay in Texas where COA is cheaper than most places (Before acceptance my limit was 250k for OOS). Im projecting a similar debt as my cousin (maybe plus 30k for rising tuition and rent) and I will also plan to pay aggressively. My parents supported 5 kids on a 45k income for years so living below my means is no shock to me. I am going to try my best to pay off my debt within the first 6-7 years of graduating.

6-7 years of paying loans vs 15+ .

While there is the argument that certain more expensive schools better your chances of specializing I would like to counter.

• There is no guarantee you will get to specialize even with the supposed "boost"
• It is a mental game, not everyone can go to school for the extra years (there are instances where students get exhausted and just want to finish). -If you do not end up specializing, you just paid double for pretty much the same thing.
• While schools like midwestern offer more clinic requirements (extra practice) you can complete post grad training for much cheaper for just one extra year.
• The debt builds quickly so the extra income you make is negated with the extra debt and growing interest.

That isn't to say no one should ever go to these schools with outrageous costs. If you have the ability and the patience to do so then by all means. The choice is ultimately up to the individual.

 

[allantois]

White Coat Investor would say 2x of starting salary

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

I second the 300K. My list of schools will only include in state and the cheaper OOS schools that give IS tuition after one year. The most I can reasonably justify paying would be 350K but I feel like that is a stretch.


Be careful not to drink the ivy school kool-aid. Some users here would have you believe Penn is a good deal at $470,000.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

$200k-$250k is a great investment. When you hit $300k it begins to blur the line of if it's financially worth it, $350k is where you really need to have a solid plan and be ready to move anywhere. $400k and up is going to be a very long and tough road.
No, it's not all about money, but going to dental school at over $300k makes the next 10 years of your life about the money

@princeafrica hit the nail on the head. Super smart to be looking into this now and not in December after you get an acceptance. My advice would be to not apply to schools that will cost over $350k that don't give out scholarships regularly, unfortunately that removes the majority of dental schools. If dentistry is your one true "dream", then I guess go for it over $350k, just be ready to accept the consequences that come with that route

Living frugally like everyone says sounds like a great plan now since we're all college kids or early/mid 20s. Once you hit your 30s, get married, have kids, have a car, have a house, pay for all insurances etc. living frugally doesn't really become possible anymore, and that $65k a year in loan repayment really become cement shoes

 

[321931]

$200k-$250k is a great investment. When you hit $300k it begins to blur the line of if it's financially worth it, $350k is where you really need to have a solid plan and be ready to move anywhere. $400k and up is going to be a very long and tough road.
No, it's not all about money, but going to dental school at over $300k makes the next 10 years of your life about the money

@princeafrica hit the nail on the head. Super smart to be looking into this now and not in December after you get an acceptance. My advice would be to not apply to schools that will cost over $350k that don't give out scholarships regularly, unfortunately that removes the majority of dental schools. If dentistry is your one true "dream", then I guess go for it over $350k, just be ready to accept the consequences that come with that route

Living frugally like everyone says sounds like a great plan now since we're all college kids or early/mid 20s. Once you hit your 30s, get married, have kids, have a car, have a house, pay for all insurances etc. living frugally doesn't really become possible anymore, and that $65k a year in loan repayment really become cement shoes

Life changes drastically when you have a home mortgage...kids to feed...a wife who may or may not work...and you are the sole breadwinner.

The problem with being young is being shortsighted and almost selfish in a sense that you don't think ahead. You aren't going to be living in a dorm and making 125k eating taco bell everyday and playing fortnite with the friendos on xbox.

You will be paying 3000$ in mortgage, 2000-4000$ for student loans, socking 1-2k into your retirement fund, paying for kids tuition and clothes, and wifes whatever blah blah blah. 10k a month which equates to 120k a year amounts to nothing when you have big loans. You would be better off debt free collecting trash for Waste Management.

The difference between 100k of tuition is enormous. Simply put, it is YEARS of difference to make up.

 

[princeafrica]

Be careful not to drink the ivy school kool-aid. Some users here would have you believe Penn is a good deal at $470,000.

Oh man, I know everyone who will be commenting soon

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

Oh man, I know everyone who will be commenting

 

[Advance]

Lmao I can’t with y’all 😆

 

[Ohsnap23]

Thank you everyone for all the thoughtful responses. I actually am already accepted to MUSC (in state). It’s shown as 400k, but they absolutely overpriced a lot of things. I will also most likely get some help from my parents for the rent and live simply. So hopefully 300k is the top. It’s just crazy to think this is the price of a house haha.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

Thank you everyone for all the thoughtful responses. I actually am already accepted to MUSC (in state). It’s shown as 400k, but they absolutely overpriced a lot of things. I will also most likely get some help from my parents for the rent and live simply. So hopefully 300k is the top. It’s just crazy to think this is the price of a house haha.

If you took loans only for tuition and fees, MUSC will cost $335k with interest and without accounting for tuition hikes that will happen in those 4 years.

Full COA with cost of living is around $400k-$425k. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into

 

[AEZDent]

You would be better off debt free collecting trash for Waste Management.

I really have a hard time believing this

 

[macsak]

I really have a hard time believing this

it takes a long, long time to pass someone who graduates high school and goes to work for the city hauling trash
they get paid vacation and sick leave too...

 

[princeafrica]

I really have a hard time believing this

My trash man is the happiest dude I have ever seen lmao

 

[AEZDent]

it takes a long, long time to pass someone who graduates high school and goes to work for the city hauling trash
they get paid vacation and sick leave too...

You're going to making what like $38,000? That's still gonna be really tough to live a quality life. As a dentist I would say you have better hours, more flexibility and would be able to live a better life style even if you have a lot of student debt.

 

[Ohsnap23]

If you took loans only for tuition and fees, MUSC will cost $335k with interest and without accounting for tuition hikes that will happen in those 4 years.

Full COA with cost of living is around $400k-$425k. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into

I’ve got the printout of estimated costs from 2017-2018 (they’ve done a good job of not hiking it up) and the tuition and fees comes out to be 256k before interest. I’m currently looking at interest rates etc. but would it really push it to 335k? Sheesh.

 

[AEZDent]

My trash man is the happiest dude I have ever seen lmao

Maybe he's perfectly happy with that? I doubt most people probably would be. Either way you gotta make the most out of any situation that you're in!

 

[deleted942432]

If you took loans only for tuition and fees, MUSC will cost $335k with interest and without accounting for tuition hikes that will happen in those 4 years.

Full COA with cost of living is around $400k-$425k. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into

MUSC is just ridiculous. How the hell are they a public school and charge instate just as much as most private schools? 20k just for equipment fee alone is pure BS.

 

[macsak]

You're going to making what like $38,000? That's still gonna be really tough to live a quality life. As a dentist I would say you have better hours, more flexibility and would be able to live a better life style even if you have a lot of student debt.

you obviously need to research what union refuse drivers make in big/small cities
they also do not have to pay for undergrad, applications/interviews, and dental schools
they also have paid benefits from when they are 18 years old, your parents are paying for your health insurance while you are in school, and you are not accumulating retirement pay (I already mentioned vacation and sick leave)

 

[Ohsnap23]

MUSC is just ridiculous. How the hell are they a public school and charge instate just as much as most private schools? 20k just for equipment fee alone is pure BS.

Yeah it sucks man, it all comes down to not enough public funding :/

 

[AEZDent]

you obviously need to research what union refuse drivers make in big/small cities
they also do not have to pay for undergrad, applications/interviews, and dental schools
they also have paid benefits from when they are 18 years old, your parents are paying for your health insurance while you are in school, and you are not accumulating retirement pay (I already mentioned vacation and sick leave)

Look man I read the article, Sure they are some people making 100,000+ being drivers but the national average is still 40,000. That's like saying "Why wouldn't you be a dentist? They make 500,000 in large cities!" Plus I would never want to live in a big city like that. But I'm not going to argue with you any more. All I'm saying is that I think people really overreact to "debt" on this site. Life's not all about money. Dentistry is a great field to be in.

 

[vm26]

Hey everyone,

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on what point you consider the cost of dental education to be worth it/doable to pay back in a timely manner. I’m hoping my school cost will be about 250-300k (most likely prior to interest). Is this an amount that is acceptable? This is my dream job, but the loans just worry me. I’m a guy who likes to save and not spend much, so this kills me to think about haha. Would love to hear some responses!

Rule of thumb is that one's loans should not exceed one's expected 1st year income after training

 

[deleted942432]

Rule of thumb is that one's loans should not exceed one's expected 1st year income after training

They need to shut this $hit down then.

 

[Ohsnap23]

Rule of thumb is that one's loans should not exceed one's expected 1st year income after training

Do schools that cheap still exist?

 

[AEZDent]

Rule of thumb is that one's loans should not exceed one's expected 1st year income after training

That's nearly impossible to do

 

[Ohsnap23]

They need to shut this $hit down then.

Haha forreal...

 

[Cthuluhoop]

I’ve got the printout of estimated costs from 2017-2018 (they’ve done a good job of not hiking it up) and the tuition and fees comes out to be 256k before interest. I’m currently looking at interest rates etc. but would it really push it to 335k? Sheesh.

At current interest rates of 7-8% on Fed Grad Plus loans, for sure it'll get there. Just use the compound interest formula to do it yourself if you'd like. I did it based on the tuition listed on their website and their mandatory book and instrument fees.

Look man I read the article, Sure they are some people making 100,000+ being drivers but the national average is still 40,000. That's like saying "Why wouldn't you be a dentist? They make 500,000 in large cities!" Plus I would never want to live in a big city like that. But I'm not going to argue with you any more. All I'm saying is that I think people really overreact to "debt" on this site. Life's not all about money. Dentistry is a great field to be in.

Honestly, 95% of people on this website don't react enough to what the implications of this massive debt will be on their future lives. They're all just young and think they'll be racking in $175k+ as a fresh grad and that 175-60= 115 and that's a ton of money.
When you're spending $60k+ a year on student debt repayment alone, life is ALL about money.

 

[Life of Pablo]

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to do general dentistry, go to the cheapest school. If you know for a fact that you want to specialize, go to the school that will help with that. When 16/18 students from columbia match to OMFS and 33/35 (with the only 2 not matching being international) from Penn match to Peds, it’s not simply a matter of “oh the students at those schools just work harder.” If 35 students from a state school applied to Peds, there would not be anywhere near those same numbers accepted. I understand loans suck, but personally, I’d rather be in 400k worth of debt as an omfs/ortho/peds than be in 300k debt and face the very really reality that my hard work may not be enough to achieve my goals. Dental school is really really hard (like if you want to specialize and *try to be* at the top of your class, you’ll probably putting in 9-12 hours of work a day), and even then it’s not guaranteed. It’s a myth that hard work = you will become whatever specialist you want. In some cases it’s true, in about 80% of cases it’s not.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Rule of thumb is that one's loans should not exceed one's expected 1st year income after training

That's nearly impossible to do

Become an oral surgeon *ta-da*

Be careful not to drink the ivy school kool-aid. Some users here would have you believe Penn is a good deal at $470,000.

It’s a good thing a majority of my class got scholarships to Penn ranging anywhere from 40k to 160k.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

Do schools that cheap still exist?

Texas A&M in Dallas has a COA of $220,000. This probably exceeds what you can make as an associate in the city but at a fee for service practice run in a rural area I'd be surprised if that was all I'd make as a first year.

Become an oral surgeon *ta-da*

Welcome to the thread 😉 Pablo is correct on this one. I've seen corporate offers for OMS fresh out at 750k just pulling teeth.

 

[thisismyacct]

I think it depends on your personal "risk tolerance", finances/family finances, and how business savvy you are.

Personally, I'm willing to spend 600k on a dental education. However, I intend to have 2 rental properties by the time I apply (my GPA is on the low side so I need 1yr of post-bacc plus masters). The first one I intend to buy will net me 1k/month and the second will bring in 850/mo. this would be a huge help in reducing the COA. Also, I know a guy that does private financing so after graduation from dental school (assuming I get accepted) I'm gonna buy an apartment building for the extra income. this should amount to like 4k/mo more income.

Also, I know my family would be fine with me living at home after graduation from dental school so that would save me more money when I work.

The business savvy part is pretty self explanatory. Also, another thing that can be done is work at 2 dental practices (although idk if this would be legal per se). Maybe work at a corp from 8-3 then at a private practice for a couple hours.

but to answer your question OP: past 350k for most people, 600k for me would be the limits.

edit: 600k, not 500k

 

[princeafrica]

I think it depends on your personal "risk tolerance", finances/family finances, and how business savvy you are.

Personally, I'm willing to spend 500k on a dental education. However, I intend to have 2 rental properties by the time I apply (my GPA is on the low side so I need 1yr of post-bacc plus masters). The first one I intend to buy will net me 1k/month and the second will bring in 850/mo. this would be a huge help in reducing the COA. Also, I know a guy that does private financing so after graduation from dental school (assuming I get accepted) I'm gonna buy an apartment building for the extra income. this should amount to like 4k/mo more income.

Also, I know my family would be fine with me living at home after graduation from dental school so that would save me more money when I work.

The business savvy part is pretty self explanatory. Also, another thing that can be done is work at 2 dental practices (although idk if this would be legal per se). Maybe work at a corp from 8-3 then at a private practice for a couple hours.

but to answer your question OP: past 350k for most people, 500k for me would be the limits.

Confused. You are saying that 500k is your limit but in this thread (go-to-nyu-interview-or-take-a-gap-year.1365324) you find it crazy that someone would not attend an interview for a school that will cost them above 550k

 

[thisismyacct]

Confused. You are saying that 500k is your limit but in this thread (go-to-nyu-interview-or-take-a-gap-year.1365324) you find it crazy that someone would not attend an interview for a school that will cost them above 550k

that was a typo, I meant 600k. the comment has been edited. thank you.

 

[GoDental101]

Dang I didn’t realize the loans from dental school were going to be such a burden..:good thing I just applied to 20 job positions as a garbage man. Thanks SDN for opening my eyes. Can’t wait to spend the next 40 years picking up people’s garbage.

 

[321931]

Dang I didn’t realize the loans from dental school were going to be such a burden..:good thing I just applied to 20 job positions as a garbage man. Thanks SDN for opening my eyes. Can’t wait to spend the next 40 years picking up people’s garbage.

If you are going to be the "average" dentist who is 300-500k in debt making the "average" income of 150k. Then yes you would be better off picking up other people's garbage.

As stated many times before, you guys have no understanding the magnitude of debt and income. But it's ok, I didn't understand either until I started paying taxes.

That being said, the gig is good if you can open/buy a good practice and make the cash flow work. Majority of my friends from 2014 graduates are in "average" jobs and have zero net worth and barely getting by on payments. But there are few, me included, that are killing it. I always tell my friends to go after ownership, but I guess it's easier said then done, and honestly, the thought of making a leap and going into ownership scares the average individual.

So yes, sarcasm aside from your post. Garbage truck drivers would be way better off then your "average" dentist now.

 

[deleted942432]

100% agreed. I don't understand why people would want to pay off their loan as soon as possible. They should do a long term payment plan and use the extra cash flow to make investment. If your goal is to live off the 150k average dentist salary then your ambition is too low.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Be careful not to drink the ivy school kool-aid. Some users here would have you believe Penn is a good deal at $470,000.

Lots of things in life seem like a good idea at first, then reality hits you in the face.

Big Hoss

 

[Wingie]

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to do general dentistry, go to the cheapest school. If you know for a fact that you want to specialize, go to the school that will help with that. When 16/18 students from columbia match to OMFS and 33/35 (with the only 2 not matching being international) from Penn match to Peds, it’s not simply a matter of “oh the students at those schools just work harder.” If 35 students from a state school applied to Peds, there would not be anywhere near those same numbers accepted. I understand loans suck, but personally, I’d rather be in 400k worth of debt as an omfs/ortho/peds than be in 300k debt and face the very really reality that my hard work may not be enough to achieve my goals. Dental school is really really hard (like if you want to specialize and *try to be* at the top of your class, you’ll probably putting in 9-12 hours of work a day), and even then it’s not guaranteed. It’s a myth that hard work = you will become whatever specialist you want. In some cases it’s true, in about 80% of cases it’s not.

I think you have it backwards. You should encourage people who want to specialize to go to cheap schools. If someone graduates from a dental school with COA of 400K before interest and then does a 6 yr OS residency, the principal would have been accumulating interest for 10 years (dental school + residency) before he/she could start paying it off. Moreover, if he/she decides to attend a residency that requires him/her to pay for medical school for 2-3 yrs (i.e 99% of 6 yr programs), that's another 100-200K to the principal. After 4 yrs of dental school (400K principal) and 6 yrs of residency (200K principal), that grad will owe approximately 1.2 Million with a 7% interest rate. Now, some people will say:
"Hey Wingie, can't the grad pay on the loans during residency?" Yes, but that's not likely because many residencies do not allow moonlighting and the 50K pre-tax stipend isn't enough to cover living expenses, family expenses and your loans.
"Well, I'm going to make 750K as an oral surgeon so who cares if I owe 1.2 mill?" The most recent ADA survey on salaries states that the median OS salary is approximately 330K.
"Well, I'll just do 4-yr residency, so I won't pay anymore tuition" You'll still owe at least 800K because of interest.

If someone graduates from a dental school with a COA of 400-500K and then ends up in a tuition based Peds residency (+100 to 200K), he/she will end up owing 800-900K after interest is compounded. And he/she will likely make a median salary of 240K, which is not much more than a GP.

The point is compound interest is a real thing, so the lower the principal the better.

(Edited to indicate that Cost of Attendance only includes Principal borrowed. COA does not include the interest)

 

[321931]

I think you have it backwards. You should encourage people who want to specialize to go to cheap schools. If someone graduates with 400K and then does a 6 yr OS residency, the principal would have been accumulating interest for 10 years (dental school + residency) before he/she could start paying it off. Moreover, if he/she decides to attend a residency that requires him/her to pay for medical school for 2-3 yrs (i.e 99% of 6 yr programs), that's another 100-200K to the principal. After 4 yrs of dental school (400K principal) and 6 yrs of residency (200K principal), that grad will owe approximately 1.2 Million with a 7% interest rate. Now, some people will say:
"Hey Wingie, can't the grad pay on the loans during residency?" Yes, but that's not likely because many residencies do not allow moonlighting and the 50K pre-tax stipend isn't enough to cover living expenses, family expenses and your loans.
"Well, I'm going to make 750K as an oral surgeon so who cares if I owe 1.2 mill?" The most recent ADA survey on salaries states that the median is approximately 330K.
"Well, I'll just do 4-yr residency, so I won't pay anymore tuition" You'll still owe at least 800K because of interest.

If you graduate with 400-500K in DS loans and then end up in a tuition based Peds residency (+100 to 200K), you'll end up owing 800-900K after interest is compounded. And you'll make a median of 240K, which is not much more than a GP.

The point is compound interest is a real thing, so the lower the principal the better.

Take notes: Albert Einstein called compound interest the “eighth wonder of the world”, adding: “He who understands it earns it; he who doesn't pays it.”

To not add to the doom and gloom, I will say this. Business really evens out the playing field. You can easily be a GP and make more then a specialist and a specialist can easily make more then a GP by the virtue of BUSINESS.

As an employee dentist, a specialist will always earn more...but no dentist goes into profession without yearning for business. Many dentists want their own place not to be an employee.

So that being said, ownership really evens out the playing field regardless of specialty versus GP. That's why I always recommend students to really specialize for the love of the job over the $ aspect because you can easily make the same amount as a GP running a decent practice.

 

[AEZDent]

If you are going to be the "average" dentist who is 300-500k in debt making the "average" income of 150k. Then yes you would be better off picking up other people's garbage.

As stated many times before, you guys have no understanding the magnitude of debt and income. But it's ok, I didn't understand either until I started paying taxes.

That being said, the gig is good if you can open/buy a good practice and make the cash flow work. Majority of my friends from 2014 graduates are in "average" jobs and have zero net worth and barely getting by on payments. But there are few, me included, that are killing it. I always tell my friends to go after ownership, but I guess it's easier said then done, and honestly, the thought of making a leap and going into ownership scares the average individual.

So yes, sarcasm aside from your post. Garbage truck drivers would be way better off then your "average" dentist now.

So just trying to understand, but what am I missing? Based off of my current residency, based on a $150,000 starting salary you'd take home 105,000. Let's say you pay 60,000 in student loans per year that leaves you with $45,000 to do whatever with. This is compared to the Garbage truck driver who lets say has a salary of 40,000 and would take home after taxes about $32,000. If your final loan amount ends up being around 400,000 it would take you about 7 years to pay that off. 10 years after graduation you would pass the Garbage truck drive in lifetime earnings.

 

[321931]

So just trying to understand, but what am I missing? Based off of my current residency, based on a $150,000 starting salary you'd take home 105,000. Let's say you pay 60,000 in student loans per year that leaves you with $45,000 to do whatever with. This is compared to the Garbage truck driver who lets say has a salary of 40,000 and would take home after taxes about $32,000. If your final loan amount ends up being around 400,000 it would take you about 7 years to pay that off. 10 years after graduation you would pass the Garbage truck drive in lifetime earnings.

There's nothing much to really understand.

Graduate high school. Go get your trucking License. Go do garbage collecting. If you wanted to, you could always move up the chain. Truckers in large cities make way more then 40k. Some 50, 60k or more. In some rare cases you have truckers making 100k The $100,000 job: Garbage workers

So lets see, you are 18, debt free, driving around a truck, have benefits, just making cold hard cash. What you do with that cash is up to them. Invest it? Buy a house. Who knows. All I know is that they are debt free and a decade ahead of you before you start earning one dime.

4 years of expensive schooling + 4 more years of expensive graduate schooling + buying a 500k-1 mil dollar practice...and the cash flow comes in your middle 30. If everything goes ideally well and you graduate 26-28, buy a practice and on the right track by 30....you could probably be debt free by 40's. This is ideal. Some do it much quicker and some don't get debt free until their 50's.

There are much easier routes in life if you want to talk about money. Dentistry is a good gig, but you are missing the point that you are paying a huge price for time effort and opportunity cost by investing into dentistry.

If you wanted to make a better argument you could argue computer science versus dentistry. My brother in law is making 250k at 24 years of age working for one of the big tech firms with stock options that matures in 4 years that would push his net worth to 1 mil at 26. Oh and he graduated with 50k of debt.

But that's comparing apples to oranges which makes no sense...but don't look down on those garbage truck collectors, they are doing a great job, and some are making some big dough. I love dentistry and I would def do it again even with the debt...the only thing I wish I tried was computer science. Oh well maybe next life time.

 

[free wifi]

Also, you need to count the technological advancement in this world. Almost half of the jobs in the nation will be automated with AI, which includes truck drivers, garbage truckers, cashier, etc. In less than 10 years, we won't see these jobs.

 

[macsak]

There's nothing much to really understand.

Graduate high school. Go get your trucking License. Go do garbage collecting. If you wanted to, you could always move up the chain. Truckers in large cities make way more then 40k. Some 50, 60k or more. In some rare cases you have truckers making 100k The $100,000 job: Garbage workers

So lets see, you are 18, debt free, driving around a truck, have benefits, just making cold hard cash. What you do with that cash is up to them. Invest it? Buy a house. Who knows. All I know is that they are debt free and a decade ahead of you before you start earning one dime.

4 years of expensive schooling + 4 more years of expensive graduate schooling + buying a 500k-1 mil dollar practice...and the cash flow comes in your middle 30. If everything goes ideally well and you graduate 26-28, buy a practice and on the right track by 30....you could probably be debt free by 40's. This is ideal. Some do it much quicker and some don't get debt free until their 50's.

There are much easier routes in life if you want to talk about money. Dentistry is a good gig, but you are missing the point that you are paying a huge price for time effort and opportunity cost by investing into dentistry.

If you wanted to make a better argument you could argue computer science versus dentistry. My brother in law is making 250k at 24 years of age working for one of the big tech firms with stock options that matures in 4 years that would push his net worth to 1 mil at 26. Oh and he graduated with 50k of debt.

But that's comparing apples to oranges which makes no sense...but don't look down on those garbage truck collectors, they are doing a great job, and some are making some big dough. I love dentistry and I would def do it again even with the debt...the only thing I wish I tried was computer science. Oh well maybe next life time.

exactly
you left out some smaller (and larger) things like costs to apply to dental school, value of time shadowing and volunteering, costs of mission trips, etc
and also retirement contributions from when you are 18, and paid vacation, sick leave, and disability

 

[macsak]

Let's say you pay 60,000 in student loans per year... If your final loan amount ends up being around 400,000 it would take you about 7 years to pay that off.

that doesn't take into account the compounded interest that begins the minute you borrow the money, only the principal

 

[ucd2018]

out of curiosity does anyone have a way to calculate how much debt we will actually graduate with? For example I will pay 100k for year 1, 60K for year 2 and 3 (60k each of those 2 years) and then 40K for year four. So this is 260K total but with interest how much will this actually be?

 

[AEZDent]

that doesn't take into account the compounded interest that begins the minute you borrow the money, only the principal

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear on that. I was looking at that number as total cost of the loan. Obviously interest would accrue and the total cost would be more if you just borrowed 400,000 outright.

 

[321931]

Also, you need to count the technological advancement in this world. Almost half of the jobs in the nation will be automated with AI, which includes truck drivers, garbage truckers, cashier, etc. In less than 10 years, we won't see these jobs.

And yet dentists have not have a raise ever since PPO's came out....and reimbursement rates have been cut time and time again.

By the time you are cutting crowns, it will probably be less then 2019 rates, and with more and more dentists coming out and corporate encroachment, the fees aren't going to get better.

We haven't kept up with the 2% inflation either...

So at the end of the day, everyone is getting squeezed either way. Oh well, that's capitalism for ya.

I still love my job, but I want to be financially independent before 40, so that if theres ever anything drastic change in this job like "universal dental care" or "amazon dental for all" that I can walk away and just go drive a garbage truck as the dental industry will not be worth the squeeze.

I would not plan to "pay off the tax bomb" in 25 years plan. Way to much headwinds coming to healthcare, industry, and gov that may really ruffle up some plans.