COVID-19 and impact on school

[SnowJ]

There are rumors that we are going to start the Fall semester online. Our Fall selectives, which are a week before classes start, have been cancelled. Also, we just received an email recommending appropriate computer and internet specifications for "summer 2020 and into the 2020-2021 academic year".

That's honestly my worst fear at this point. There's so much hands-on for us in third year that I know a lot of my classmates would try and take a leave of absence if we had to do this whole online thing for another semester.
Trying not to worry about it since there's nothing I can do, but... it's at the back of my mind

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[supershorty]

That's honestly my worst fear at this point. There's so much hands-on for us in third year that I know a lot of my classmates would try and take a leave of absence if we had to do this whole online thing for another semester.
Trying not to worry about it since there's nothing I can do, but... it's at the back of my mind

I'll be curious to see the administration's response if people actually try to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if the requests to do it are denied - it's a cruddy situation, but a mass leave-of-absence would really screw over the class below you guys too and would make scheduling clinics a nightmare the next year.

 

[Coopah]

That's honestly my worst fear at this point. There's so much hands-on for us in third year that I know a lot of my classmates would try and take a leave of absence if we had to do this whole online thing for another semester.
Trying not to worry about it since there's nothing I can do, but... it's at the back of my mind

I kinda doubt it, because a leave of absence would put student loans into repayment, and not very many people can just casually pay student loans working whatever they can. Finding a job in a pandemic is probably also going to be difficult. I don't doubt some people could do all of the above, but not enough to make a difference. Just my two cents.

 

[cohen2000]

Davis officially made May 25-June 5 virtual. 20 deaths out of a population of 220,500, 14 of which were in a nursing home not even in Davis. So pissed right now. House arrest needs to end.

 

[Caiter92]

Davis officially made May 25-June 5 virtual. 20 deaths out of a population of 220,500, 14 of which were in a nursing home not even in Davis. So pissed right now. House arrest needs to end.

You do realize that death toll would have been far higher if stay home orders hadn’t been issued?

I’m sure you’d feel differently if you were someone who had lost a family member.

 

[cohen2000]

You do realize that death toll would have been far higher if stay home orders hadn’t been issued?

I’m sure you’d feel differently if you were someone who had lost a family member.

I lost a family member living in a nursing home back in January after she was put on a ventilator. I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it. We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

 

[JustPaws]

I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it.

I'm so sorry that you lost your grandmother.
On a different note that is not the name of this virus

 

[Caiter92]

I lost a family member living in a nursing home back in January after she was put on a ventilator. I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it. We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

Wuhan virus? Wow.

I’m sorry you lost your grandmother.

 

[amsweeney]

Purdue has told the c/o 2024 to secure housing for the fall because as of right now they plan to do the in-person onboarding in August.

 

[Caiter92]

I just gotta say though, I would far rather be starting online clinics right now than missing my graduation and hooding tomorrow.

 

[cbucks]

We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

Ignoring the other parts that people have already mentioned, what about those of us who work in the field that are immunocompromised, or live with someone who is, or who just want to take all precautions necessary? It's true that we can't remain locked up forever, but we also can't just open up everything at once unless we want to put many people at risk.
I'm sorry you lost someone in your family, and I know it's frustrating to have plans change. But the limits that are being put out are being established for a reason.

 

[vetmedhead]

We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work

These two things are mutually exclusive.

Not to mention there are all sorts of things that are considered high risk factors for hospitalization and death from coronavirus that aren't necessarily immunocompromise or being elderly. People who are obese are more than twice as likely to need hospitalization and also more likely to die of COVID. More than 40% of the US population is obese, so it's not like this is an insignificant issue. The most recent studies are suggesting that obesity alone (with no comorbidities) is a bigger risk factor than diabetes, high blood pressure, coronary artery disease, cancer, kidney disease, and even pre-existing pulmonary disease.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

I lost a family member living in a nursing home back in January after she was put on a ventilator. I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it. We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

this is the general strategy Sweden took and they're regretting it as their death toll is climbing

 

[AuburnVet]

Just putting this out there. I really don’t get the political correctness piece with this virus. How is saying “Chinese virus” and saying “covid-19 originated in China” any different.

 

[Caiter92]

Just putting this out there. I really don’t get the political correctness piece with this virus. How is saying “Chinese virus” and saying “covid-19 originated in China” any different.

One is racist, one is factual.

 

[AuburnVet]

One is racist, one is factual.

And the countless other diseases that are named after places are racist too?

 

[cbucks]

And the countless other diseases that are named after places are racist too?

The WHO guidelines for naming diseases like that changed in 2015.

 

[Caiter92]

And the countless other diseases that are named after places are racist too?

This virus has a name. That name is not after a country it originated in. Calling it the wuhan virus, China virus, China man virus, Chinese virus, and all the other various names it’s been called is incorrect and is in fact racist.

 

[AuburnVet]

The WHO guidelines for naming diseases like that changed in 2015.

Sorry but the WHO is also a CCP mouthpiece. China is not innocent in this. They, and more specifically the Chinese communist party, are directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands.

Agree with Bill Maher 100% on this one.

"Sorry Americans, we're going to have to ask you to keep two ideas in your head at the same time: This has nothing to do with Asian-Americans and it has everything to do with China. We can't afford the luxury anymore of non-judginess towards a country with habits that kill millions of people everywhere. Because this isn't the first time. SARS came from China. And the bird flu. And the Hong Kong flu. The Asian flu. Viruses come from China just like shortstops come from the Dominican Republic. If they were selling nuclear suitcases at these wet markets, would we be so non-judgmental?"

 

[Coopah]

I lost a family member living in a nursing home back in January after she was put on a ventilator. I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it. We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

Hey man, I hope you know that I respect you as a person, but I also disagree with this. I am also upset about our clinics date being pushed back, but ultimately to prevent spread it's probably better safe than sorry. I personally know multiple people in our class who are immunocompromised or have immunocompromised dependents at home. If they went back that puts those people at risk. This happens as an extrapolation for the entire population. Not all the elderly are in nursing homes. We still need to keep the flood of patients to the ER and hospitals down below what they can handle. Not to mention when combining that hospital load in conjunction with other normal ER caseload that are currently down right now such as traffic accidents. I would hate for you to become injured on your way to clinics and needing advanced care and the hospital being too overwhelmed to treat you properly. Or in another scenario, you get the care you need but contract COVID in the hospital and potentially you're compromised at that point. I understand those scenarios are unlikely to happen to you personally but I think it's likely to happen to someone.

In addition, I know you're a very respectful person in general. I don't think calling COVID the Wuhan virus is as respectful as we could be.

You also know the testing limitations of this particular virus, and our numbers are likely higher than reported. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Just putting this out there. I really don’t get the political correctness piece with this virus. How is saying “Chinese virus” and saying “covid-19 originated in China” any different.

I agree and disagree.
I agree in that there are numerous viruses/other historically named after regions and it seems to be those instances have not been contended.
Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu, Russian Flu, Spanish Flu.. Sure, even the Hong Kong Flu was 60 years ago, but we have MERS, which is definitely modern. I didn't see a problem calling it Wuhan Virus, but there was perceivable racism arising across the world against Chinese people, and the name change was their attempt to mitigate this. I still remember a story about a bridal shop having problems because people didn't want to get their wedding dresses from China. Did the name change work? Probably not, because racist people will be racist no matter what

I disagree in that the name of the virus has explicitly been changed. It was called Wuhan Virus at the very beginning. It was NEVER called the Chinese virus, so there is 100% no reason to call it that. As far as referring to it as Wuhan virus, it's outdated, it's not the name of the virus, there's no going back, so why? What's the point of calling it that?

That being said, I am definitely upset by the name change because it is isn't unique.. as in, SARS refers to a different virus, so you can't shorthand it, but SARS-COV-2 is an obnoxious mouthful. COVID-19 is technically the disease, not the virus, so it is not an acceptable alternative (you can *get* COVID-19, but you can't *catch* COVID-19). And many people end up calling it simply "coronavirus" which is also not appropriate. If they wanted to change it, they should've picked a better name

 

[AuburnVet]

I agree and disagree.
I agree in that there are numerous viruses/other historically named after regions and it seems to be those instances have not been contended.
Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu, Russian Flu, Spanish Flu.. Sure, even the Hong Kong Flu was 60 years ago, but we have MERS, which is definitely modern. I didn't see a problem calling it Wuhan Virus, but there was perceivable racism arising across the world against Chinese people, and the name change was their attempt to mitigate this. I still remember a story about a bridal shop having problems because people didn't want to get their wedding dresses from China. Did the name change work? Probably not, because racist people will be racist no matter what

I disagree in that the name of the virus has explicitly been changed. It was called Wuhan Virus at the very beginning. It was NEVER called the Chinese virus, so there is 100% no reason to call it that. As far as referring to it as Wuhan virus, it's outdated, it's not the name of the virus, there's no going back, so why? What's the point of calling it that?

That being said, I am definitely upset by the name change because it is isn't unique.. as in, SARS refers to a different virus, so you can't shorthand it, but SARS-COV-2 is an obnoxious mouthful. COVID-19 is technically the disease, not the virus, so it is not an acceptable alternative (you can *get* COVID-19, but you can't *catch* COVID-19). And many people end up calling it simply "coronavirus" which is also not appropriate. If they wanted to change it, they should've picked a better name

Fair. And to be clear, all racism is bad. Also to be clear, China is not our friend in this. They spewed propaganda during the critical timeframe where controlling this virus was feasible. They used this time when they were downplaying the virus to buy up the worlds PPE supply. They demanded the WHO stifle accurate reports from Taiwan and elsewhere, and the WHO gladly repeated their party lines. Not to mention the dozens of physicians and researchers that tried to tell the world what was coming that China has disappeared.

 

[prevet04]

I wanted to see if any students who have just started 4th year have gotten any recent updates on their clinical rotations.

Here's an update about how the Ontario Veterinary College (aka the University of Guelph) in Canada is handling their clinical rotations. All in-person externships, external rotations, and internal rotations have been canceled until August 17th (which were supposed to start May 11th). A few online rotations (like Radiology) will begin on July 6th. In-person rotations are set to begin again on August 17th. We are being told that we may need to cancel any future international rotations that we have already booked due to travel restrictions and self-isolation protocols.

(I just completed 3rd-year last week, and from March 13th until now, our lectures and final exams were all moved into an online format.)

Have any of your schools canceled face-to-face classes for September to December 2020? If so, how is this impacting your clinical rotations?

 

[battie]

Have any of your schools canceled face-to-face classes for September to December 2020? If so, how is this impacting your clinical rotations?

Illinois was told by our chancellor that this decision will come out mid-June either way. If in person instruction *is* canceled for fall, then we would have to graduate late in order to meet the AVMA COE requirements for amount of time spent in clinics since we start in person clinics on Aug 3rd (been on forced vacay for 6 weeks of clinics thus far).

 

[PippyPony]

That being said, I am definitely upset by the name change because it is isn't unique.. as in, SARS refers to a different virus, so you can't shorthand it, but SARS-COV-2 is an obnoxious mouthful. COVID-19 is technically the disease, not the virus, so it is not an acceptable alternative (you can *get* COVID-19, but you can't *catch* COVID-19). And many people end up calling it simply "coronavirus" which is also not appropriate. If they wanted to change it, they should've picked a better name

This is what I've been saying all along. If they took the approach of large animal peeps and picked a dramatic name like "winter dysentery," THEN the world would know we should be afraid.

I'm like, 50% kidding.

 

[PippyPony]

Fair. And to be clear, all racism is bad. Also to be clear, China is not our friend in this. They spewed propaganda during the critical timeframe where controlling this virus was feasible. They used this time when they were downplaying the virus to buy up the worlds PPE supply. They demanded the WHO stifle accurate reports from Taiwan and elsewhere, and the WHO gladly repeated their party lines. Not to mention the dozens of physicians and researchers that tried to tell the world what was coming that China has disappeared.

They also make most of the world's PPE supply, so. I would consider what you think the US would do if the positions had been reversed. "New virus affecting tens of thousands of our citizens, let's send all of our manufactured goods to the healthy people overseas?" Nah.

And this might just be my own personal interpretation, but if you need to clarify that all racism is bad before making a statement, then it kinda-sorta makes me want to disregard the rest of that statement.

 

[Caiter92]

And this might just be my own personal interpretation, but if you need to clarify that all racism is bad before making a statement, then it kinda-sorta makes me want to disregard the rest of that statement.

"All racism is bad but let me continue to make racist statements."

 

[AuburnVet]

They also make most of the world's PPE supply, so. I would consider what you think the US would do if the positions had been reversed. "New virus affecting tens of thousands of our citizens, let's send all of our manufactured goods to the healthy people overseas?" Nah.

And this might just be my own personal interpretation, but if you need to clarify that all racism is bad before making a statement, then it kinda-sorta makes me want to disregard the rest of that statement.

They were buying up that PPE at a time they were telling the world that community spread wasn’t possible. It was dishonest and unethical.

You are welcome to occupy whatever high horse you wish. Keep the faith.

 

[AuburnVet]

"All racism is bad but let me continue to make racist statements."

what part of that was racist. Please clarify

Edit: None of it was. It’s facts. You’re welcome to feel offended. But facts don’t care about your feelings.

 

[PippyPony]

You are welcome to occupy whatever high horse you wish. Keep the faith.

Thanks! I like ponies best though. Better fit since I'm roughly the size of a large child.

 

[Caiter92]

Thanks! I like ponies best though. Better fit since I'm roughly the size of a large child.

But bigger is suppose to be better I thought

 

[PippyPony]

But bigger is suppose to be better I thought

Well, I suppose drafts are ok too.

 

[PippyPony]

I wanted to see if any students who have just started 4th year have gotten any recent updates on their clinical rotations.

Here's an update about how the Ontario Veterinary College (aka the University of Guelph) in Canada is handling their clinical rotations. All in-person externships, external rotations, and internal rotations have been canceled until August 17th (which were supposed to start May 11th). A few online rotations (like Radiology) will begin on July 6th. In-person rotations are set to begin again on August 17th. We are being told that we may need to cancel any future international rotations that we have already booked due to travel restrictions and self-isolation protocols.

(I just completed 3rd-year last week, and from March 13th until now, our lectures and final exams were all moved into an online format.)

Have any of your schools canceled face-to-face classes for September to December 2020? If so, how is this impacting your clinical rotations?

If you read back through this thread, you'll see a lot of information about what's going on at various schools.

Not too much to update here -- we haven't had any formal cancellations extended through fall beyond events/large gatherings, but the last communication from the higher ups was a couple weeks ago and the new daily case rate was still rising here as of very recently, so it's not looking like it will be back to normal anytime soon.

 

[vetmedhead]

This is what I've been saying all along. If they took the approach of large animal peeps and picked a dramatic name like "winter dysentery," THEN the world would know we should be afraid.

I'm like, 50% kidding.

SARS 2: Electric Boogaloo

 

[DVMDream]

I lost a family member living in a nursing home back in January after she was put on a ventilator. I've been wondering if Wuhan virus had something to do with it. We should be protecting nursing homes and the immunosuppressed, while the rest of us get back to work. This virus isn't going away anytime soon, and we can't remain locked up forever.

1. No one anywhere, ever, has suggested people remain "locked up" forever. The suggestion is to wait until we are on the downward part of the curve and then slowly reopen with appropriate testing and contact tracing of positive people. Given that no state has wide-spread testing and our government is showing ZERO interest in facilitating making this a possibility is why we are going to be stuck doing this for a long ass time. Want to complain about something... that's what to be angry about. Especially since the WHO offered the US more than enough tests back in February but our government refused them.
2. If you think this is "locked up".... you need a bigger world view on what lock up really is. Because this isn't being locked up. Not even remotely close.
3. The Wuhan part has been addressed, so I will let that be, other than I am going to point out that Spanish flu was never actually found to originate in Spain, actually, they think it originated here in the US but since that was during the time of World War I and military people were being shipped all over it was damn impossible for them to pin an origin. It got called the Spanish flu as it affected them the worst. Viruses can and do appear anywhere in the world. America isn't immune to one developing here.
4. I am sorry you lost a family member.
5. Do you think people in nursing homes live in a bubble? I mean, it might seem that way, but they don't. The employees of that nursing home have lives and families outside of said nursing home. You can't just "send out the rest of the world that are healthy" and not expect it to get back to the nursing home. Those employees will pick up the virus from their SO or roommate or whomever they live with who you are saying should be "out and about because they are healthy" and will then bring it to the nursing home, unknowingly because they will be spreading the virus before any signs develop and you will have WORSE nursing home outbreaks if you let the "rest of the healthy world" go out and about.
6. Suggesting that people should sacrifice themselves because "they are healthy" is ridiculous. Plenty of healthy and fit people have died from this virus, but glad you are ok being cavalier with other peoples' lives.
7. You ever think that not all old people live in nursing homes? Some live with their younger, "healthy" family members?
8. You demand everyone should be ok to go back to work, you remove the financial support that is currently being offered to those who want to stay home to protect their at risk family members.
9. Yes, this sucks. This sucks for everyone. We ALL want to get back to a more "normal" existence. I want to hug my parents. I want to see my grandfather. But no one should be requesting to go back at the risk of other peoples' lives. Life>>>>>>>missing out on certain things. Every time. All the time.
10. The things that should be pissing people off: -That a vast majority of Americans quite literally can't afford to miss two paychecks and still be ok. That is absurd. Everyone should be able to miss a paycheck or two and not be financially destitute. --That Americans can't get healthcare that they need now because they are out of jobs. Insurance should never be attached to one's employment. It is an insanely flawed system. -- Our government should care about those who actually keep society moving. ---That higher education and the loans associated are actually crippling people financially. So many more things. But staying inside to stay safe doesn't remotely make the list of what should make people angry. Our government should be supporting its people in what is imperative we do in order for everyone to remain safe.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

SARS 2: Electric Boogaloo

That sounds like a movie title
Which btw I can't wait to find out what sort of Hollywood films are inspired by all of this

 

[PippyPony]

That sounds like a movie title
Which btw I can't wait to find out what sort of Hollywood films are inspired by all of this

I have a title idea

(Although I am actually very pro-bat. Not so much pro-bugs.)

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

I have a title idea

View attachment 305639

(Although I am actually very pro-bat. Not so much pro-bugs.)

Bats are the best. I was very sad to not see the bats when I was in Gainesville (EITHER TIME. I've been twice and never seen them)

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Thanks! I like ponies best though. Better fit since I'm roughly the size of a large child.

Ponies are...an acquired taste. lol

You only risk death every time you get on one.

 

[SkiOtter]

SARS 2: Electric Boogaloo

@SARdoghandler it ur twin

 

[battie]

Bats are the best.

Agreed.

 

[SARdoghandler]

@SARdoghandler it ur twin

Makes me sound like the not fun twin

 

[SkiOtter]

Makes me sound like the not fun twin

Maybe SARS 1 was the twin then

 

[Caiter92]

Edit: None of it was. It’s facts. You’re welcome to feel offended. But facts don’t care about your feelings.

 

[cohen2000]

1. No one anywhere, ever, has suggested people remain "locked up" forever. The suggestion is to wait until we are on the downward part of the curve and then slowly reopen with appropriate testing and contact tracing of positive people. Given that no state has wide-spread testing and our government is showing ZERO interest in facilitating making this a possibility is why we are going to be stuck doing this for a long ass time. Want to complain about something... that's what to be angry about. Especially since the WHO offered the US more than enough tests back in February but our government refused them.
2. If you think this is "locked up".... you need a bigger world view on what lock up really is. Because this isn't being locked up. Not even remotely close.
3. The Wuhan part has been addressed, so I will let that be, other than I am going to point out that Spanish flu was never actually found to originate in Spain, actually, they think it originated here in the US but since that was during the time of World War I and military people were being shipped all over it was damn impossible for them to pin an origin. It got called the Spanish flu as it affected them the worst. Viruses can and do appear anywhere in the world. America isn't immune to one developing here.
4. I am sorry you lost a family member.
5. Do you think people in nursing homes live in a bubble? I mean, it might seem that way, but they don't. The employees of that nursing home have lives and families outside of said nursing home. You can't just "send out the rest of the world that are healthy" and not expect it to get back to the nursing home. Those employees will pick up the virus from their SO or roommate or whomever they live with who you are saying should be "out and about because they are healthy" and will then bring it to the nursing home, unknowingly because they will be spreading the virus before any signs develop and you will have WORSE nursing home outbreaks if you let the "rest of the healthy world" go out and about.
6. Suggesting that people should sacrifice themselves because "they are healthy" is ridiculous. Plenty of healthy and fit people have died from this virus, but glad you are ok being cavalier with other peoples' lives.
7. You ever think that not all old people live in nursing homes? Some live with their younger, "healthy" family members?
8. You demand everyone should be ok to go back to work, you remove the financial support that is currently being offered to those who want to stay home to protect their at risk family members.
9. Yes, this sucks. This sucks for everyone. We ALL want to get back to a more "normal" existence. I want to hug my parents. I want to see my grandfather. But no one should be requesting to go back at the risk of other peoples' lives. Life>>>>>>>missing out on certain things. Every time. All the time.
10. The things that should be pissing people off: -That a vast majority of Americans quite literally can't afford to miss two paychecks and still be ok. That is absurd. Everyone should be able to miss a paycheck or two and not be financially destitute. --That Americans can't get healthcare that they need now because they are out of jobs. Insurance should never be attached to one's employment. It is an insanely flawed system. -- Our government should care about those who actually keep society moving. ---That higher education and the loans associated are actually crippling people financially. So many more things. But staying inside to stay safe doesn't remotely make the list of what should make people angry. Our government should be supporting its people in what is imperative we do in order for everyone to remain safe.

1. Take a look at the US daily cumulative totals on the COVID Tracking Project (US Historical Data), specifically the total positive cases out of the total number of tests. When increased testing is accounted for, positive cases reached a peak in mid-April and has been trending down ever since. The whole point of flattening the curve was to avoid overwhelming our medical capacity. Hospitals have not been overwhelmed. In fact, Army Corps field hospitals designed to manage overflow haven’t treated a single patient (), and the USS Comfort left NYC after treating 176 patients in 3 weeks (The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks). The CDC had an existing protocol for test development during pandemics, and the US did not “refuse” tests from the WHO (Did US 'Refuse' COVID-19 Testing Kits from the World Health Organization?).
2. You’re right, police aren’t literally welding our doors shut to prevent us from leaving (Sealed in: Chinese trapped at home by coronavirus feel the strain). But businesses are being forced to lock up under penalty of fine and imprisonment. The mayor of LA threatened to shut off utilities to non-compliant “non-essential” businesses. Protests are being "banned" in New York (De Blasio, NYPD commissioner: No protests allowed in NYC). Our constitutional rights are being violated, and more and more Americans are getting fed up.
3. Lyme disease, Ebola, Zika, West Nile Virus, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, etc. etc. Toponymic naming of diseases is not a new concept. Should we rename all of these diseases to be politically correct? Call it COVID if you want, but don’t call anyone racist simply for using a term the media and governments used for weeks. Media Called Coronavirus "Wuhan" Or "Chinese Coronavirus" Dozens Of Times
4. Thanks
5. I don’t think nursing home residents live in a bubble, but employees at nursing homes are already working. They’re “essential”. That won’t change if the rest of the economy opens. Part of the reason the outbreak at nursing homes is so high is because governors are forcing them to take COVID-positive patients (At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died).
6. What an absurd accusation. Suggesting that people be allowed to provide for their families is not being “cavalier with other peoples’ lives”. Do you consider medical workers, grocery store clerks, and nursing home employees to be worthy of sacrifice? Because allowing them to work certainly increases their risk. The answer is no because that's ridiculous. I think forcing businesses to remain closed is being cavalier with peoples’ livelihoods. Realize that after this is over, many businesses will not reopen, which means many people will be jobless. Unemployment is now at 15% (Record 20.5 million American jobs lost in April. Unemployment rate soars to 14.7%). That’s Great Depression level. How many people will die from poverty? From suicide (Mental Health an Emerging Crisis of COVID Pandemic)? From drug addiction ('Deaths of despair': Coronavirus pandemic could push suicide, drug deaths as high as 150k, study says)? How many will die from not getting their banned “elective” medical procedures (Elective doesn't mean non-essential. Skip sweeping coronavirus bans, let doctors decide.)? Flattening the curve does not change the area under it. This virus will still spread. It’s just a matter of how much economic devastation we allow to come with it.
7. I’m sure many elderly people live with younger family members. Is anyone in the household going to the grocery store? To the pharmacy? To the gas station? If so, they’re being exposed. People are already taking precautions, wearing masks and gloves, using hand sanitizer, and socially distancing.
8. This virus is never going to disappear. There will always be an added risk unless an effective vaccine is developed, which is no guarantee. Keeping the entire country shut down indefinitely and printing trillions in cash to send $2500 checks to some people is not a solution. It inflates the currency. That didn’t work out so well for the Weimar Republic. Don’t be surprised when prices become significantly higher.
9. Public policy is multifactorial. The choice is not between keeping everyone locked at home vs. completely reversing to life as usual and “letting grandma die”. I encourage you to read this editorial about the impact this lockdown is having on our country. Opinion | The Economic Lockdown Catastrophe

You’re welcome to disagree with me, but please don’t accuse me of wanting to “sacrifice” people for my own benefit. It’s a lazy argument, and it’s untrue. And in no way am I criticizing our school's administration. Davis has done a great job in terms of communicating with us, providing several different options to accommodate the alterations in our clinical schedule, and setting up virtual rotations. They don't want to risk defying a government order, which is understandable. I'm criticizing the heavy handed responses of local and state governments, as well as the incompetence and reckless monetary policies being employed by the federal government.

 

[Caiter92]

You’re welcome to disagree with me, but please don’t accuse me of wanting to “sacrifice” people for my own benefit. It’s a lazy argument, and it’s untrue. And in no way am I criticizing our school's administration. Davis has done a great job in terms of communicating with us, providing several different options to accommodate the alterations in our clinical schedule, and setting up virtual rotations. They don't want to risk defying a government order, which is understandable. I'm criticizing the heavy handed responses of local and state governments, as well as the incompetence and reckless monetary policies being employed by the federal government.

The reason the death toll is so low here is because of the "heavy handed" response states and local governments have had. How are you not getting this? Would you rather we had waited until the US was like Italy every where? or NY? The reason hospitals haven't been over whelmed in most states is because of the "heavy handed" response of state governments, not in spite of.

 

[Minnerbelle]

This is what I've been saying all along. If they took the approach of large animal peeps and picked a dramatic name like "winter dysentery," THEN the world would know we should be afraid.

I'm like, 50% kidding.

This reminds me of when I learned very recently that campylobacter induced diarrhea when traveling in South America is called Montezuma’s Revenge.

 

[battie]

1. Take a look at the US daily cumulative totals on the COVID Tracking Project (US Historical Data), specifically the total positive cases out of the total number of tests. When increased testing is accounted for, positive cases reached a peak in mid-April and has been trending down ever since. The whole point of flattening the curve was to avoid overwhelming our medical capacity. Hospitals have not been overwhelmed. In fact, Army Corps field hospitals designed to manage overflow haven’t treated a single patient (), and the USS Comfort left NYC after treating 176 patients in 3 weeks (The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks). The CDC had an existing protocol for test development during pandemics, and the US did not “refuse” tests from the WHO (Did US 'Refuse' COVID-19 Testing Kits from the World Health Organization?).
2. You’re right, police aren’t literally welding our doors shut to prevent us from leaving (Sealed in: Chinese trapped at home by coronavirus feel the strain). But businesses are being forced to lock up under penalty of fine and imprisonment. The mayor of LA threatened to shut off utilities to non-compliant “non-essential” businesses. Protests are being "banned" in New York (De Blasio, NYPD commissioner: No protests allowed in NYC). Our constitutional rights are being violated, and more and more Americans are getting fed up.
3. Lyme disease, Ebola, Zika, West Nile Virus, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, etc. etc. Toponymic naming of diseases is not a new concept. Should we rename all of these diseases to be politically correct? Call it COVID if you want, but don’t call anyone racist simply for using a term the media and governments used for weeks. Media Called Coronavirus "Wuhan" Or "Chinese Coronavirus" Dozens Of Times
4. Thanks
5. I don’t think nursing home residents live in a bubble, but employees at nursing homes are already working. They’re “essential”. That won’t change if the rest of the economy opens. Part of the reason the outbreak at nursing homes is so high is because governors are forcing them to take COVID-positive patients (At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died).
6. What an absurd accusation. Suggesting that people be allowed to provide for their families is not being “cavalier with other peoples’ lives”. Do you consider medical workers, grocery store clerks, and nursing home employees to be worthy of sacrifice? Because allowing them to work certainly increases their risk. The answer is no because that's ridiculous. I think forcing businesses to remain closed is being cavalier with peoples’ livelihoods. Realize that after this is over, many businesses will not reopen, which means many people will be jobless. Unemployment is now at 15% (Record 20.5 million American jobs lost in April. Unemployment rate soars to 14.7%). That’s Great Depression level. How many people will die from poverty? From suicide (Mental Health an Emerging Crisis of COVID Pandemic)? From drug addiction ('Deaths of despair': Coronavirus pandemic could push suicide, drug deaths as high as 150k, study says)? How many will die from not getting their banned “elective” medical procedures (Elective doesn't mean non-essential. Skip sweeping coronavirus bans, let doctors decide.)? Flattening the curve does not change the area under it. This virus will still spread. It’s just a matter of how much economic devastation we allow to come with it.
7. I’m sure many elderly people live with younger family members. Is anyone in the household going to the grocery store? To the pharmacy? To the gas station? If so, they’re being exposed. People are already taking precautions, wearing masks and gloves, using hand sanitizer, and socially distancing.
8. This virus is never going to disappear. There will always be an added risk unless an effective vaccine is developed, which is no guarantee. Keeping the entire country shut down indefinitely and printing trillions in cash to send $2500 checks to some people is not a solution. It inflates the currency. That didn’t work out so well for the Weimar Republic. Don’t be surprised when prices become significantly higher.
9. Public policy is multifactorial. The choice is not between keeping everyone locked at home vs. completely reversing to life as usual and “letting grandma die”. I encourage you to read this editorial about the impact this lockdown is having on our country. Opinion | The Economic Lockdown Catastrophe

You’re welcome to disagree with me, but please don’t accuse me of wanting to “sacrifice” people for my own benefit. It’s a lazy argument, and it’s untrue. And in no way am I criticizing our school's administration. Davis has done a great job in terms of communicating with us, providing several different options to accommodate the alterations in our clinical schedule, and setting up virtual rotations. They don't want to risk defying a government order, which is understandable. I'm criticizing the heavy handed responses of local and state governments, as well as the incompetence and reckless monetary policies being employed by the federal government.

The other thing is that with more people being out and about, that is increased number of exposures for the at risk populations, either for themselves directly or through the people they contact daily.

If a nurse that works at a nursing home is the only person leaving her home, that is a far more controlled risk for the old folks at the nursing home she works at. If her spouse and kids are also able to leave the home, that is 2+ more people potentially being exposed in the household than before. That exponentially increases her chances of being exposed and taking the virus to her nursing home. Then if every person working at the nursing home goes through the same experience, it's not a case of if the home is compromised, but when.

This applies to old folks still living independently; old folks living with relatives; immunocompromised individuals of all living situations.

As for constitutional rights, the constitution states *Congress* will not impose sanctions against peaceful protest. Unless there are clarifications in specific state constitutions, these public health orders preventing assembly are perfectly legal. If people really have an issue with it, they need to file a class action law suit against their state and let the courts determine if what the executive branch has pulled is legal or not. Moreover, these protests would have gone over a lot better and more in their favor if the leaders were willing to use some common sense. Yes, protest, absolutely. With 6 feet between everyone and not calling the virus a hoax. The moral high ground was lost when people were holding signs saying that the virus was fake or a hoax.

I sympathize. I really do. My dad has lost his job and was the only bread winner in my parents home. As macabre as this next statement is going to sound, I'm glad my younger sister isnt alive to experience this because she would not have been mentally capable of handling the isolation at all and would not have survived. I am also in 2021 and have been on forced vacation for 8 weeks (1 spring break, 1 milestone, 6 clinics). I'm missing out on 4 months of clinics, including 8 weeks of off campus stuff I scheduled literally last February. 2021, from an academic perspective, is getting more screwed than any other class.

But this is a moment in society where the value of the individual is being devalued for the value of the whole community. Countries like South Korea handled this so well because of the culture of community is so different than here. You're correct. People will die if we hunker down and let the economy rot. The epidemiologists are right that if we open too much too fast, people will die from COVID. There needs to be a balance that relies on how much we're willing to sacrifice as individuals for the community. We as a community need to truly look at what's of value as we open up. If we're going to start opening things up, theres got to be a compromise for safety. My parents had lunch in a restaurant right next to people a few days later. That's not compromise. That's the concern here. When people demand opening up while calling this a hoax, why would scientists trust people to not go hog wild?

 

[Minnerbelle]

[*]Lyme disease, Ebola, Zika, West Nile Virus, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, etc. etc. Toponymic naming of diseases is not a new concept. Should we rename all of these diseases to be politically correct? Call it COVID if you want, but don’t call anyone racist simply for using a term the media and governments used for weeks.

But I think context matters. On the international relations front, we have a strained and potentially dangerous relationship with the Chinese right now. It’s really not the time to instigate further, regardless of how ****ty we think the Chinese government did or didn’t deal with the virus and how culpable they may be. Domestically, we are living at an age where hate and racially motivated violence is not only on the rise but egged on by the president. Um... sure, I can see how people feel they have the right to protest if they feel like the stay at home orders are infringing in their rights... but somehow it comes along with swatsikas and nooses... like wtf? And it’s a ****ing scary time to be of Asian descent in this country. People are harassed openly for being Asian and being blamed for the Chinese virus by randos. These aren’t just isolated events. I personally know a number of Asian Americans who have encountered explicit harassment (and most of them aren’t even Chinese...). And even if we’re talking about just isolated events, like a whole family was stabbed including their small children by some nutjob while shopping. Given the situation, like, is it too much to at least not give the virus a name that would escalate these issues? like you can still talk about how the Chinese govt has ****ed **** up for everyone, but that can be separated from the identity of the virus itself, which is its own entity. I’m honestly about as scared of going out in public due to the risk of encountering blatant racism right now as much as I am of getting covid. Think about that.

It doesn’t matter if initially that’s what the media called it. Things have evolved, and if people refuse to accept the consequences of continuing to use these terms, then yes, they are racist.

 

[vetmedhead]

I'm just over here thinking about how Ebola is actually named after a river over 100 km away from the town that the first identified Ebola outbreak actually happened in because he didn't want the town to bear the stigma of the being associated with the virus name.