csu grading

[gracietiger]

I apologize if this seems like an obvious question, but I swear I searched here and the internet and cannot find an answer!

From what I understand, CSU does not have grades, correct? Do they have a class ranking? How are students distinguished for internships/residencies?

Again, I apologize if I am asking something discussed a million times before!


On the same note, can anyone share what you think are the benefits of a pass/fail system vs the benefits of a traditional grading system?

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[GellaBella]

I don't go to CSU, so perhaps someone from there will pop in to fully describe how it works but my understanding is that students are still ranked in their class based on their exam scores.

I'm not sure that I think having a pass/fail system vs a traditional grade based system really matters (someone feel free to correct me if I'm blatantly missing something!) ... because it seems like either system in the end is pass/fail really...if you get above a C you pass. If you get below a C you fail. The letters just give you an idea of how well you really did, but if a pass/fail school is ranking you anyways then it should all work out the same way in the end...does that make sense?

 

[EveyG]

Hi Gracietiger,
Here is a pdf link, I don't know if you have found it yet-
http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/ns/_docs/students/dvm_policy_class_standings.pdf
There is a blurb at the bottom about internships/residencies and the class standing system, but as far as I know, I think it doesn't make much of a difference.
From my friends who are currently in the CSU PVM program, class ranking hasn't affected thier abilities to find internships and residencies. I don't want to sound like a CSU snot, but the feeling I get from people is that CSU graduates enjoy the reputation of being very well prepared after graduating so many places gladly accept them. If you are looking into some very hard to get into internships, ranking may play a role, but then again, maybe not. My current veterinarian graduated from CSU in 2006, and he had no troubles getting jobs, and his fiancee graduated with him, and she took an internship in Washington and is now doing a surgical residency at CSU. I think both of them were in the upper middle tier of their class. He keeps telling me not to stress about every little point once I start school, because with the class ranking system it doesn't matter anymore. I think the idea is to get rid of the "oh I need every little point available" stress that I know a lot of us pre-vet students are used to 😛
I hope that helps. That's about all I have seen about the ranking system that has been useful. 🙂
By the way, did you/are you applying to CSU?

 

[LetItSnow]

because it seems like either system in the end is pass/fail really...if you get above a C you pass. If you get below a C you fail.

So a C isn't considered a passing grade? I'm confused.

 

[RatherBEventing]

By CSU Im assuming you mean Colorado State right? They don't have grades. It's either Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory.

 

[gracietiger]

Thanks so much, everyone, and Evey, that link was great - thank you!

I am glad to know they call it Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory b/c I was only searching for Pass/Fail. No wonder I couldn't find any information!


I am contemplating a move to Colorado to gain IS residency. Right now, I am in Philly and it's not for me. So, the world is my oyster and I am debating between returning to CA or trying something new in CO.

It does sound like the non-grading system all balances out with the grading system. Though I do think I like the idea of S/U b/c I tend to be one who worries about little points (and I hate that I do that).

 

[GellaBella]

So a C isn't considered a passing grade? I'm confused.

A C is a passing grade. I just meant if you get 70 or above (C and above) you pass. If you get a 69 or below, here at Penn at least, that is a failing grade.

 

[LetItSnow]

A C is a passing grade. I just meant if you get 70 or above (C and above) you pass. If you get a 69 or below, here at Penn at least, that is a failing grade.

Duh. Sorry. Sometimes I can be too literal, and I just couldn't quite figure out what you meant. Makes sense now.

 

[Minnerbelle]

So the way it works:

Usually, 70+ equals passing. 65-69 is unsatisfactory. 64 - is failing. If you get a U, you can remediate and try to pass it. You can have upto 9 U's (that's 9 credits, so if you get a U for anatomy which is 7-8 credits, you're pretty much f-ed). On your 10th U, you get kicked out. If you have an F, you get kicked out. If you fail out sometimes they'll let you come back and let you join the next year's class, but that's not guaranteed.

Students are evaluated by class rank (though they're thinking about perhaps overhauling that). When you have like ~10 who get 100% on like every exam, and the class average for exams are in the 90s, it doesn't make too much sense, but that's the way it is. Apparently, class rank doesn't seem to affect internship matching very much (as in, someone with a very low class rank still match into internships/residencies).

This is great for many people because all you need to do is PASS, and it's pretty hard to fail. I have to say, I have not felt stressed at all about my grades, but at the same time, i don't think I would have been stressed any more with a GPA system. I also don't see the point in the ranking thing either, since it doesn't say anything about a student's abilities.

 

[gracietiger]

Thanks minnerbelle!

Another question: Are the decisions for internships/residencies placements even more heavily dependent upon recommendations for students who come from schools like CSU that don't offer grades versus students who do have a GPA?

I'm a bit worried about that b/c I think I lack a lot of clinical skills in comparison to other students going to vet school. I can rock the classes, but I'm worried that I'll be far behind my classmates come time for the clinics. Not that I can't learn, but I believe I'll still be learning to draw blood while everyone else is ready to spay! I really like the idea of not having grades, but if it is the case that internship acceptances are more dependent on clinical aptitude, I wonder if a student who is more successful with grades would gain better post-graduate options on a graded system?

 

[GellaBella]

I think that they will be very highly dependent on recommendations whether you go to a school that grades by S/U or conventional grades.

I have zero clinical experience and I'm almost done with my first year. They will teach you what you need to know. That is what school is all about.

 

[eringobraugh]

Thanks minnerbelle!

Another question: Are the decisions for internships/residencies placements even more heavily dependent upon recommendations for students who come from schools like CSU that don't offer grades versus students who do have a GPA?

I think it's hard to tell. I have heard (from some of our residents) that your letters or recommendation are SUPER important and that some residency/internship programs will actually try and calculate your GPA (you submit a spreadsheet with your actual number grades to them). Whether or not this is how it really works I don't know.

I do know that at CSU if you have the exact same grade as a bunch of other people (i.e. you are ALL #15 or whatever) they will rank you alphabetically because they do not want multiple people with the same rank. So, you can see it is a bit of a controversy here.

And to add to what Minner said, we DO get grades, they are just not posted as a number on our final transcript. You get number grades for pretty much every test, guiz, homework assignment you do and the teachers all post your final number grade online as well as throughout the semester.

So yes, it is pass/fail but you still know that if you "pass" what your number grade actually is.

 

[squeegee]

I think it's hard to tell. I have heard (from some of our residents) that your letters or recommendation are SUPER important and that some residency/internship programs will actually try and calculate your GPA (you submit a spreadsheet with your actual number grades to them). Whether or not this is how it really works I don't know.

And to add to what Minner said, we DO get grades, they are just not posted as a number on our final transcript. You get number grades for pretty much every test, guiz, homework assignment you do and the teachers all post your final number grade online as well as throughout the semester.

yes you do get grades but then after the semester is over and they change ramct so that you can't access your past class blackboards any more, how are you supposed to submit that spreadsheet? unless you meticulously keep track of your grades throughout four years, in which case i guess i'm already in trouble 😛

 

[eringobraugh]

yes you do get grades but then after the semester is over and they change ramct so that you can't access your past class blackboards any more, how are you supposed to submit that spreadsheet? unless you meticulously keep track of your grades throughout four years, in which case i guess i'm already in trouble 😛

I dunno, like I said, I'm not sure if that's what "really" happens. I have just heard from several people that some programs try and calculate your GPA.

I, on the other hand, do have all my grades in a spreadsheet, but that's just because I like to calculate how well I have to do to get a decent grade. And by that I mean how bad I can do and still pass 🙂