Difficulty of Getting a Spot in: Residency vs MD/DO Program vs PhD Program vs JD Program

[Alienman52]

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Hi All,

Purely for curiosity, how would you rank the difficulty of say:

• Matching into a medical residency program
• Getting into Medical School (MD/DO)
• Getting into a PhD Program (Science Related)
• Getting into Law School (JD)

For the sake of putting everything on a level playing field, let's say each program was of the same caliber in each respective field.

It's important to be said that ANY of these programs are EXTREMELY difficult to get into, but which would you say is, "less hard" than the other?

Haha I hope this doesn't make people nuts. It's purely for curiosity. What do you guys think?

 

[Palmyra]

IMO.. easiest would be PhD, then JD, then medical residency, then medical school.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Well it depends. If you are just talking about any program then it goes

-MD



-DO



-JD
-PhD

I don't think residency can be included because basically every MD/DO graduate gets a residency of some sort. It also isn't a degree.

Edit: I also want to add that no these aren't all EXTREMELY difficult to get. Like I said almost every medical graduate gets a residency and JD and PhD programs really aren't hard to get into if you are just aiming for any program. I know JD students with sub-3.0 GPAs and PhD students that literally had 2.0 type GPAs.

 

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

Hi All,

Purely for curiosity, how would you rank the difficulty of say:

• Matching into a medical residency program
• Getting into Medical School (MD/DO)
• Getting into a PhD Program (Science Related)
• Getting into Law School (JD)

For the sake of putting everything on a level playing field, let's say each program was of the same caliber in each respective field.

It's important to be said that ANY of these programs are EXTREMELY difficult to get into, but which would you say is, "less hard" than the other?

Haha I hope this doesn't make people nuts. It's purely for curiosity. What do you guys think?

Well Penguin Man, you know, to really rank the difficulty of the following choices we have to differentiate between MD and DO. And even then, we'd have to further rank the MD schools and the DO schools as well. You see, there are tiers, and tiers are to be ranked. But the DO schools...you see the DO schools may not have tiers or ranks but they definitely have their pecking order.

And I believe our first task of greatest importance is to determine the pecking order of the DO schools.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Well Penguin Man, you know, to really rank the difficulty of the following choices we have to differentiate between MD and DO. And even then, we'd have to further rank the MD schools and the DO schools as well. You see, there are tiers, and tiers are to be ranked. But the DO schools...you see the DO schools may not have tiers or ranks but they definitely have their pecking order.

And I believe our first task of greatest importance is to determine the pecking order of the DO schools.

:troll:

 

[Alienman52]

Well it depends. If you are just talking about any program then it goes

-MD



-DO



-JD
-PhD

I don't think residency can be included because basically every MD/DO graduate gets a residency of some sort. It also isn't a degree.

Edit: I also want to add that no these aren't all EXTREMELY difficult to get. Like I said almost every medical graduate gets a residency and JD and PhD programs really aren't hard to get into if you are just aiming for any program. I know JD students with sub-3.0 GPAs and PhD students that literally had 2.0 type GPAs.

A great, well thought out response. I wasn't aware people could get into JD's and PhD's with those GPAs. I'm sure they're the outliers though.

:troll:

Hahaha he REALLY wants a DO school ranking....

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

A great, well thought out response. I wasn't aware people could get into JD's and PhD's with those GPAs. I'm sure they're the outliers though.

They aren't as outlier as you would think. The quality of education at those types of programs is extremely variable. It ranges from extremely elite to podunk. Not all post-graduate education is as carefully regulated as MD/DO. Not to mention there are far more PhD and JD seats than MD/DO

 

[Alienman52]

They aren't as outlier as you would think. The quality of education at those types of programs is extremely variable. It ranges from extremely elite to podunk. Not all post-graduate education is as carefully regulated as MD/DO. Not to mention there are far more PhD and JD seats than MD/DO

I really don't know a lot about PhD and JD programs myself as I'm a future med student, but I really can't imagine that PhD and JD programs are THAT easy to get into. Maybe they don't require 3.6+ GPAs and high MCATs like med schools do, but I'm sure they have their own levels of difficulty in admission...

 

[lnguyen1412]

Additionally, I believe get into medical school in the USA is harder than any other countries in the world (beside Canada, I heard Canadian has a very hard time too). In my own country, the medical doctor degree is = bachelor of medicine, which typically a 6 years.
I believe phD and JD is hard, but there are many factors contribute to getting into graduate school. Research must be a very important factors.

 

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

:troll:

Not a troll dude.

Shut your face. You just mad and trying to beat up on others.
You're not an authority. Please keep your opinion to yourself.

 

[Marrowist]

Its turtles all the way down folks.

 

[AlteredScale]

Keep it civil please.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I really don't know a lot about PhD and JD programs myself as I'm a future med student, but I really can't imagine that PhD and JD programs are THAT easy to get into. Maybe they don't require 3.6+ GPAs and high MCATs like med schools do, but I'm sure they have their own levels of difficulty in admission...

That's what I'm trying to tell you, some of them will take anybody. Some programs are harder than medical school admissions and some of them will accept basically anyone. That's why JD is so over saturated, and getting a PhD isn't that difficult if you are just aiming for any program. With PhDs it really depends on the field.

 

[kelminak]

Well Penguin Man, you know, to really rank the difficulty of the following choices we have to differentiate between MD and DO. And even then, we'd have to further rank the MD schools and the DO schools as well. You see, there are tiers, and tiers are to be ranked. But the DO schools...you see the DO schools may not have tiers or ranks but they definitely have their pecking order.

And I believe our first task of greatest importance is to determine the pecking order of the DO schools.

Your "pecking order" "definitely not a tier list" "whoops it's a tier list" thread was one of the worst threads I've seen posted on the DO forums to be honest. You seem like you have good intentions but come on friendo.

 

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

tpen

Your "pecking order" "definitely not a tier list" "whoops it's a tier list" thread was one of the worst threads I've seen posted on the DO forums to be honest. You seem like you have good intentions but come on friendo.

Did you not read @AlteredScale 's post about keeping it civil.

@kelminak , I'm all about subtlety.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm all about subtlety.

And he wonders why I think he's a troll 🙄

 

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

And he wonders why I think he's a troll 🙄

@AnatomyGrey12 , that's enough trolling out of you for one day 😱

 

[kj8210]

AnatomyGrey12 is right. JD programs are not that challenging to get into. I personally know people who had barely above a 3.0 gpa and got into law schools. The challenge comes when trying to find a decent job. You can go to any law school but that law school will define your career; if its not Harvard or Columbia, your job search will be limited. Unlike physicians who can even go out of the country and come back to the US and make a very healthy salary.

 

[Alienman52]

AnatomyGrey12 is right. JD programs are not that challenging to get into. I personally know people who had barely above a 3.0 gpa and got into law schools. The challenge comes when trying to find a decent job. You can go to any law school but that law school will define your career; if its not Harvard or Columbia, your job search will be limited. Unlike physicians who can even go out of the country and come back to the US and make a very healthy salary.

I mean I'm sure we're going to have some response bias because the thread is posted on a pre medical forum, but I definitely see what you're saying. I would also agree in that I think getting into an MD/DO program is the hardest.


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[kelminak]

tpen


Did you not read @AlteredScale 's post about keeping it civil.

@kelminak , I'm all about subtlety.

I said nothing against your personally and even said it sounds like you have good intentions. Your thread was objectively not a contribution to the DO forums.

In regards to this post, the MD > DO > JD/PhD difficulty scale seems fine.

Here's my question: Why are we asking this question in the first place?

 

[Alienman52]

I said nothing against your personally and even said it sounds like you have good intentions. Your thread was objectively not a contribution to the DO forums.

In regards to this post, the MD > DO > JD/PhD difficulty scale seems fine.

Here's my question: Why are we asking this question in the first place?

It was purely for curiosity, as mentioned in my first post.


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[SpaceHamsterBoo]

I said nothing against your personally and even said it sounds like you have good intentions. Your thread was objectively not a contribution to the DO forums.

In regards to this post, the MD > DO > JD/PhD difficulty scale seems fine.

Here's my question: Why are we asking this question in the first place?

I do have good intentions. And I thank you for recognizing them in the heated discussions that are common in this forum. It's my passion to help the community and lift members with my good intentions 🙂

Let's all do well this application cycle!

 

[kelminak]

It was purely for curiosity, as mentioned in my first post.


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On a scale of bored to bored, how bored have you become now that you've gotten an acceptance? 😉

 

[Alienman52]

On a scale of bored to bored, how bored have you become now that you've gotten an acceptance? 😉

LOL it's actually a feeling that you wouldn't expect....
It's like more of a feeing of anxiety like I'm constantly nervous and I have no idea why I'm having it. I guess it's just the pressure of finally being accepted after I've worked for it for so long uk...


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[235009]

Top MD = Top JD
Other MD
DO = mid-tier JD
PhD
low-tier JD

I'm not going to comment on where to draw the "extremely difficult" line and that will depend on your interpretation of what that constitutes.

Hard to fit residency into this....getting any spot would be at the very bottom of the list but if you want to include the range of specialties and programs they would be anywhere from first to last.

 

[Alienman52]

Top MD = Top JD
Other MD
DO = mid-tier JD
PhD
low-tier JD

I'm not going to comment on where to draw the "extremely difficult" line and that will depend on your interpretation of what that constitutes.

Hard to fit residency into this....getting any spot would be at the very bottom of the list but if you want to include the range of specialties and programs they would be anywhere from first to last.

Hm, interesting way of putting it...


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Hm, interesting way of putting it...


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This is what I was trying to convey but in a much less clear manner! With those other fields it depends on what tier of program you are talking about

 

[Peach Newport]

Additionally, I believe get into medical school in the USA is harder than any other countries in the world (beside Canada, I heard Canadian has a very hard time too). In my own country, the medical doctor degree is = bachelor of medicine, which typically a 6 years.
I believe phD and JD is hard, but there are many factors contribute to getting into graduate school. Research must be a very important factors.

A friend once told me that getting into an MBBS program in India is substantially harder than getting into an MD program in the USA, but for very different reasons.

In India, there are very clear tiers of medical school. The best tier is Government-sponsored programs, which are taken seriously. Getting into any of these is about as hard as getting into Upenn. There are relatively few of them and India has a ginormous population. Also, you often need to have the right "connections" to get into a government school.

The next tier are private schools, which are considered kind of crappy. Going to them will hurt your chances for employment. They're nowhere near as well regarded in India as DO schools are in the USA, and easier to get into. They're comparable to Caribbean schools.

I invite anyone with more knowledge of Indian medical schools to correct me or add to this.

 

[lnguyen1412]

A friend once told me that getting into an MBBS program in India is substantially harder than getting into an MD program in the USA, but for very different reasons.

In India, there are very clear tiers of medical school. The best tier is Government-sponsored programs, which are taken seriously. Getting into any of these is about as hard as getting into Upenn. There are relatively few of them and India has a ginormous population. Also, you often need to have the right "connections" to get into a government school.

The next tier are private schools, which are considered kind of crappy. Going to them will hurt your chances for employment. They're nowhere near as well regarded in India as DO schools are in the USA, and easier to get into. They're comparable to Caribbean schools.

I invite anyone with more knowledge of Indian medical schools to correct me or add to this.

To add to your information, going to medical school in Vietnam is essentially the same thing. However, there are no government sponsor or private. All schools belong to the government. There are classified as: city-school, and country-school.

Whoever has a right connection can get into city-school with ease, while the others hold true for country-school.

Residency training are also depended on where the government place you. If you are going to city school, you have best chance (just chance) to get into high regard residency program at big hospitals in the city. Otherwise, they will send you to countryside to be what we call "town doctors". Then your career stick to where you did your residency training.

Also, the paid is very bad no matter where you practiced.

 

[Alienman52]

This is what I was trying to convey but in a much less clear manner! With those other fields it depends on what tier of program you are talking about

Well to be fair I said originally to picture each program to be on the same tier. So the question would be

Which is hardest?
Mid tier MD
Mid tier PhD
Mid tier JD
Mid tier DO


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Well to be fair I said originally to picture each program to be on the same tier. So the question would be

Which is hardest?
Mid tier MD
Mid tier PhD
Mid tier JD
Mid tier DO


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MD and it isn't really that close

 

[Alienman52]

MD and it isn't really that close

So is the consensus

Mid tier MD
Mid tier DO
Mid tier JD
Mid tier PhD?


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[Peach Newport]

Top MD = Top JD
Other MD
DO = mid-tier JD
PhD
low-tier JD

I'm not going to comment on where to draw the "extremely difficult" line and that will depend on your interpretation of what that constitutes.

Hard to fit residency into this....getting any spot would be at the very bottom of the list but if you want to include the range of specialties and programs they would be anywhere from first to last.

Disagree.
I know ALOT of people who got SCHOLARSHIPS to great JD programs who wouldn't even have gotten an interview at DO schools. Top 20-30 JD programs have admissions rates over 20-30%, with some nearly 40%. Even Harvard Law has a 15% acceptance rate. The highest admission rate at a DO school is what, 6%?

 

[Alienman52]

Disagree.
I know ALOT of people who got SCHOLARSHIPS to great JD programs who wouldn't even have gotten an interview at DO schools. Top 20-30 JD programs have admissions rates over 20-30%, with some nearly 40%. Even Harvard Law has a 15% acceptance rate. The highest admission rate at a DO school is what, 6%?

That acceptance rate is so surprising, and you're right I just verified that. Wow. Even the newest DO schools have acceptance rates under 8%

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That acceptance rate is so surprising, and you're right I just verified that. Wow. Even the newest DO schools have acceptance rates under 8%

Another thing to consider is that even at top law programs the admissions process is hugely weighted towards stats and less (none?) about ECs. The people with a top GPA and LSAT are the ones who get the spots. It's not that way with MD admissions.

Therefore the people without the greatest stats aren't even going to apply to Harvard law because they know they have no chance. With MD people often throw an app at top school "just in case"

Graduate admissions is definitely an interesting game

 

[tony101]

Amount of dedication, difficulty, gpa,tests requirement, EC's required, Letters of rec, all this I would say difficulty ranking is
-MD
-DO
-Law
-PhD
Simply because you can get into law school with a 2.5 gpa(Good luck in med school with that) and PhD, you can also get in with sub 3.0 gpa and you don't even need half the amount of things med school need.

 

[235009]

Disagree.
I know ALOT of people who got SCHOLARSHIPS to great JD programs who wouldn't even have gotten an interview at DO schools. Top 20-30 JD programs have admissions rates over 20-30%, with some nearly 40%. Even Harvard Law has a 15% acceptance rate. The highest admission rate at a DO school is what, 6%?

As stated above there is much more self selection in law school applications than med school. It's more clear cut what GPA and LSAT score you need to go to a top school whereas even @Goro admits that half the people applying to his med school have no business filling out the application. I'm sure the number of students who have no chance but apply anyway increases to encompass the majority when it comes to many top schools. This is further encouraged through a more "subjective" process than with law school. Also the "top" law schools are only the top 10 or 15 ....the competitiveness takes a nose-dive after that.

EDIT: if you look at http://law-schools.startclass.com/ you'll see that the average GPA and LSAT scores for the top programs are fairly similar to MD programs (according to google LSAT ranges from 120-180 with average score of 150). You'd have to go pretty deep into the list to find average GPAs < 3.5 and LSAT in the 155-160 range which is more or less DO-caliber stats (~27-29 MCAT and 3.0+ will get you a DO acceptance). It's true that the acceptance rates seem high but the self selection is a lot stronger than in med school with WAY fewer applications per student (median of 7 apps per student in the highest demographic http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlaw...-applicants-are-getting-older-not-dumber.html) whereas most med school applicants apply to 20, 30, 40, or even 50+ schools which massively waters down the acceptance rate!

 

[tony101]

As stated above there is much more self selection in law school applications than med school. It's more clear cut what GPA and LSAT score you need to go to a top school whereas even @Goro admits that half the people applying to his med school have no business filling out the application. I'm sure the number of students who have no chance but apply anyway increases to encompass the majority when it comes to many top schools. This is further encouraged through a more "subjective" process than with law school. Also the "top" law schools are only the top 10 or 15 ....the competitiveness takes a nose-dive after that.

EDIT: if you look at http://law-schools.startclass.com/ you'll see that the average GPA and LSAT scores for the top programs are fairly similar to MD programs (according to google LSAT ranges from 120-180 with average score of 150). You'd have to go pretty deep into the list to find average GPAs < 3.5 and LSAT in the 155-160 range which is more or less DO-caliber stats (~27-29 MCAT and 3.0+ will get you a DO acceptance). It's true that the acceptance rates seem high but the self selection is a lot stronger than in med school with WAY fewer applications per student (median of 7 apps per student in the highest demographic http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlaw...-applicants-are-getting-older-not-dumber.html) whereas most med school applicants apply to 20, 30, 40, or even 50+ schools which massively waters down the acceptance rate!

While the admissions rate is inflated due to many people applying. I do believe the amount of EC's, test difficulty(MCAT vs LSAT), letters of rec, and overall requirement of classes, secondaries shows the school required does show a stark difference in schools and application chances.
The reason so many people apply to med school is because it just seems far more difficult to get in because it just isn't as clear cut what school will take you.

Also half the applicants shouldn't be applying? Even then, some schools get 10 thousand applicants, that would mean even taking an extreme 50% cut, that would be 5000 applicants, so still 150/5000 = 3%
Even taking some of the lower school applicants(I think the lowest was a school getting 3500 applicants? I don't recall the chart), getting half of that(50%)
That would still be 1750/150 = ~9% which is still drastically lower then most law school chances. I don't know, just doesn't seem to work out in difficulty but just my 2 cents.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

While the admissions rate is inflated due to many people applying. I do believe the amount of EC's, test difficulty(MCAT vs LSAT), letters of rec, and overall requirement of classes, secondaries shows the school required does show a stark difference in schools and application chances.
The reason so many people apply to med school is because it just seems far more difficult to get in because it just isn't as clear cut what school will take you.

Also half the applicants shouldn't be applying? Even then, some schools get 10 thousand applicants, that would mean even taking an extreme 50% cut, that would be 5000 applicants, so still 150/5000 = 3%
Even taking some of the lower school applicants(I think the lowest was a school getting 3500 applicants? I don't recall the chart), getting half of that(50%)
That would still be 1750/150 = ~9% which is still drastically lower then most law school chances. I don't know, just doesn't seem to work out in difficulty but just my 2 cents.

Your confusing acceptance rate with matriculation rate. The schools will accept double or more the size of their class usually.

No, a top law school isn't as difficult to get into IF you have the numbers. Without the numbers you have no chance, not even a Hail Mary. The LSAT is not an easy exam, it's just different from the MCAT.

 

[Peach Newport]

As stated above there is much more self selection in law school applications than med school. It's more clear cut what GPA and LSAT score you need to go to a top school whereas even @Goro admits that half the people applying to his med school have no business filling out the application. I'm sure the number of students who have no chance but apply anyway increases to encompass the majority when it comes to many top schools. This is further encouraged through a more "subjective" process than with law school. Also the "top" law schools are only the top 10 or 15 ....the competitiveness takes a nose-dive after that.

EDIT: if you look at http://law-schools.startclass.com/ you'll see that the average GPA and LSAT scores for the top programs are fairly similar to MD programs (according to google LSAT ranges from 120-180 with average score of 150). You'd have to go pretty deep into the list to find average GPAs < 3.5 and LSAT in the 155-160 range which is more or less DO-caliber stats (~27-29 MCAT and 3.0+ will get you a DO acceptance). It's true that the acceptance rates seem high but the self selection is a lot stronger than in med school with WAY fewer applications per student (median of 7 apps per student in the highest demographic http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlaw...-applicants-are-getting-older-not-dumber.html) whereas most med school applicants apply to 20, 30, 40, or even 50+ schools which massively waters down the acceptance rate!

You might have a point about top law schools, but a few comments...

- I've found many StartClass stats to be incredibly unreliable, many of them are 10 years out of date or more. I'd never trust StartClass as a source.

-You will NOT get into a DO school with a 3.0 and a 27. If you have a 27 MCAT, I'd say you need at least a 3.5 GPA. You might get into with a 3.0 and a 36 if everything else is stellar.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You will NOT get into a DO school with a 3.0 and a 27. If you have a 27 MCAT, I'd say you need at least a 3.5 GPA. You might get into with a 3.0 and a 36 if everything else is stellar

This just flat out isn't true... If you have a 3.0/503(27) you actually have a decent chance at newer and mission based schools. Many people do it every year. 3.5/27 is the matriculant AVERAGE. There are a lot of people below that mark. If we are being totally honest then a stat line of 3.0/500 is a decent chance at a newer school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The total amount of energy I used to get into medical school pales in comparison to the amount I've put into just a semester of medical school. Multiply that by 8, press and steam with energy put into doing well in boards, doing research, auditions, etc and you'll find that just becoming residency ready is far beyond what getting into medical school ever was.

Simply put this whole the hard part is getting in thing is really not true. Getting in only shows that you can put yourself through a beating and get back up. That's what medical school is, an awe inspiring and wondrous beat down that you enjoy.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

As stated above there is much more self selection in law school applications than med school. It's more clear cut what GPA and LSAT score you need to go to a top school whereas even @Goro admits that half the people applying to his med school have no business filling out the application. I'm sure the number of students who have no chance but apply anyway increases to encompass the majority when it comes to many top schools. This is further encouraged through a more "subjective" process than with law school. Also the "top" law schools are only the top 10 or 15 ....the competitiveness takes a nose-dive after that.

EDIT: if you look at http://law-schools.startclass.com/ you'll see that the average GPA and LSAT scores for the top programs are fairly similar to MD programs (according to google LSAT ranges from 120-180 with average score of 150). You'd have to go pretty deep into the list to find average GPAs < 3.5 and LSAT in the 155-160 range which is more or less DO-caliber stats (~27-29 MCAT and 3.0+ will get you a DO acceptance). It's true that the acceptance rates seem high but the self selection is a lot stronger than in med school with WAY fewer applications per student (median of 7 apps per student in the highest demographic http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlaw...-applicants-are-getting-older-not-dumber.html) whereas most med school applicants apply to 20, 30, 40, or even 50+ schools which massively waters down the acceptance rate!

Lets be entirely fair, an LSAT of 155 is probably closer to a 24 on the mcat. It's not an extremely hard test nor does it require anywhere near the amount of time dedication to do well. Though being entirely frank, it does test logic, which some med students are pretty lacking in....

 

[tony101]

Your confusing acceptance rate with matriculation rate. The schools will accept double or more the size of their class usually.

No, a top law school isn't as difficult to get into IF you have the numbers. Without the numbers you have no chance, not even a Hail Mary. The LSAT is not an easy exam, it's just different from the MCAT.

Well I have to disagree, speaking to multiple Kaplan test advisors. They have told me the tests pale in comparison because not only does the MCAT require critical thinking(Which is what the LSAT only has), it also requires extensive knowledge of the biological field. Of course I only spoke to around 10 Kaplan test advisors about it(I don't have a sample size of 1000 or something), but they all pretty much agreed that the Mcat is more difficult on the ideology that one is critical thinking and the other is Critical thinking + extensive knowledge in multiple fields of biology and chemistry.

Literally the LSAT requires NO knowledge of law to take. It doesn't require anything, all you need to do is be good at critical thinking and you will pass and do well. Good luck trying to not know anything of Chem,physics, organic chem, biochem, biology for the MCAT.

While I understand every test is different, I think you can indeed see the difference in difficulty. I can see many people who think the GRE is a difficult test BUT I would be hard pressed to say that the GRE and MCAT are just different and one is not more difficult then the other.

Of course the numbers matter a ton for medical school as well and the chance of getting in with super low stats are extremely rare. Its not like in Med school, I can apply with a 495 and get in. I mean I guess you can argue, theres an extremely slim chance in the medical field but no chance in law school but you were referencing top law schools. I doubt I will have ANY chance getting into harvard medical school with a 495. It's pretty much impossible(Almost NEVER happens) unless you have some ridiculous advantage(like faculty is family) which in Law school will help just as much.

I mean the scores you mention occur for brand new DO schools, even for new MD schools, a 27 is a stretch(503) to even have a chance.

Also there are just so many law schools, and I know law schools that accept people with sub 3.0 gpa's which is unheard here in the medical field.

 

[tony101]

This just flat out isn't true... If you have a 3.0/503(27) you actually have a decent chance at newer and mission based schools. Many people do it every year. 3.5/27 is the matriculant AVERAGE. There are a lot of people below that mark. If we are being totally honest then a stat line of 3.0/500 is a decent chance at a newer school.

That is a massive difference btw. 3.0 and 3.5 GPA. If I had a 3.5 cGPA and sGPA rather then a 3.0cGPA and sGPA, the interviews change dramatically. I mean just look at the chart from 2 years ago(and it's more competitive now) to get in with a 27 and a 3.0 GPA
3.0 and 27 8.17 = competitive
3.5 and 27 13.89 = highly competitive
Drastic changes in chances and also keep in mind this was a year ago. This year its going to be far more competitive especially after the MD/DO Merger happens which will make things even more difficult.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

A 3.0/27 tbh has pretty bad chances admittedly. Not to break it down, but medical schools, especially DO schools are reluctant to believe that a person with one good day can preform well throughout medical school, which is more of an endurance race than anything.

My recommendation is that if you have a low gpa to retake classes and take some higher level sciences. But otherwise a 3.0/27 is going to honestly have a rough time getting in, even a 3.0/30-33 will be getting into less places than 3.5/27.

 

[Marrowist]

MD/DO Merger!?!?! Its finally happened!! How could I have missed it!!!

That is a massive difference btw. 3.0 and 3.5 GPA. If I had a 3.5 cGPA and sGPA rather then a 3.0cGPA and sGPA, the interviews change dramatically. I mean just look at the chart from 2 years ago(and it's more competitive now) to get in with a 27 and a 3.0 GPA
3.0 and 27 8.17 = competitive
3.5 and 27 13.89 = highly competitive
Drastic changes in chances and also keep in mind this was a year ago. This year its going to be far more competitive especially after the MD/DO Merger happens which will make things even more difficult.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

MD/DO Merger!?!?! Its finally happened!! How could I have missed it!!!

It's a merger of residency programs, not degrees.

 

[tony101]

It's a merger of residency programs, not degrees.

I'm pretty sure he knows but it still pretty much will raise the ranks of DO = MD(in the sense of people seeing the degrees) and because of that, it will become more competitive.

 

[235009]

While the admissions rate is inflated due to many people applying. I do believe the amount of EC's, test difficulty(MCAT vs LSAT), letters of rec, and overall requirement of classes, secondaries shows the school required does show a stark difference in schools and application chances.
The reason so many people apply to med school is because it just seems far more difficult to get in because it just isn't as clear cut what school will take you.

Also half the applicants shouldn't be applying? Even then, some schools get 10 thousand applicants, that would mean even taking an extreme 50% cut, that would be 5000 applicants, so still 150/5000 = 3%
Even taking some of the lower school applicants(I think the lowest was a school getting 3500 applicants? I don't recall the chart), getting half of that(50%)
That would still be 1750/150 = ~9% which is still drastically lower then most law school chances. I don't know, just doesn't seem to work out in difficulty but just my 2 cents.

I encourage you to go look at the admission data for US MD schools broken down by MCAT score and GPA. You'll see that if you have decent numbers ~3.6/32 you've got a very good chance (>70 if i remember correctly). People on SDN like to dwell on the stats that make their achievement look more impressive like individual schools' admission % (which as described above is completely meaningless when even the most competitive students apply to 20 schools) and the % of applicants who matriculate (just under 50%) which misses the point that if you have competitive stats you (again 3.6/32) you actually have a very good chance of getting in.

You might have a point about top law schools, but a few comments...

- I've found many StartClass stats to be incredibly unreliable, many of them are 10 years out of date or more. I'd never trust StartClass as a source.

-You will NOT get into a DO school with a 3.0 and a 27. If you have a 27 MCAT, I'd say you need at least a 3.5 GPA. You might get into with a 3.0 and a 36 if everything else is stellar.

I just googled. If there's a website with more reliable stats feel free to share.

Go look around SDN a little and you'll see plenty of people getting in with 3.0-3.3 and 27 MCAT.

Lets be entirely fair, an LSAT of 155 is probably closer to a 24 on the mcat. It's not an extremely hard test nor does it require anywhere near the amount of time dedication to do well. Though being entirely frank, it does test logic, which some med students are pretty lacking in....

I remember trying a few LSAT questions in college when a friend was studying for it. It requires a completely different skill set and is still a difficult exam. Again people on SDN like to embellish their accomplishments. I would like to hear from someone like @Law2Doc how he thinks they stack up.

MD/DO Merger!?!?! Its finally happened!! How could I have missed it!!!

The ACGME will be taking over AOA residencies. MD and DO schools are still separate.

I'm pretty sure he knows but it still pretty much will raise the ranks of DO = MD(in the sense of people seeing the degrees) and because of that, it will become more competitive.

This is optimistic speculation which I disagree with. Won't go into details here. It's been talked about plenty.