Future of Anesthesiologists

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There are not enough anesthesiologists in the United States to staff every anesthetic 1:1, not even close

I bet you we could staff all the necessary anesthetics provided in the US... Everyone (random hospital "providers" and the public) expects GA/anesthesia to be available for all manner of things for which it is not necessary. I've reluctantly taken part in all manner of absurd things like GA for MRIs on patients who can't stay still or who are so fat they need to be bundled up so that they'll fit... and then there're all the dental procedures and even colonoscopies and such which really don't need our involvement (midazolam/fentanyl isn't unheard of for C-scopes after all). If GA weren't available for these things, people would figure out who to get them done without us.

The rest of the world manages to provide necessary anesthetics to their population after all - without midlevels!!!
 
I think a great academic job will soon be the white whale everyone wants.


--
Il Destriero

By age 50-55 I'd like to ease in to a 50% PP job or an academic job that is heavy on teaching and not research without a ton of call.
 
I totally agree. I don't understand how it can be so hard to solve this problem. Stop training them, don't hire them and keep our place in the OR. We have all the education and the experience so why is the asa acting so impotent? Hey let's try to be a surgical np and do all the surgeon's work outside of the OR for free while giving up what people go into the field to do in the OR. I went into anesthesiology to be the surgeon's handmaiden in the or, not on the floors or in clinic

No balls, like FFP said.
Passive to surgeons, passive to RNs, passive to administration because administration is feeding them a stipend and business.
 
Yes but the answer is NOT eliminate physician involvement and grant full autonomy to nurses everywhere. That is just down crazy and dangerous. It undermines medical education everywhere. Write letters to your congressman, senators and the president. Unfortunately, to raise awareness to the the problem there needs to be more high profile deaths and major organizations need to be held accountable in the form of billion dollar payments.

They don't care. The nursing PACs are strong. The AANA's PAC is the strongest nursing PAC out there. The nursing PACs are even funding Bernie's campaign.
 
there are crnas in europe. same model as here. I think in great britain they are called oda. Operating department assistant
 
There are some amazing opportunities out there and the ones i'm referring to are not in academics.
 
Anaesthetic stage[edit]
During this stage of a patient's care, ODPs prepare the drugs and equipment needed for the patient to undergo anaesthesia. This involves preparing and checking ventilation equipment, anaesthetic machines, intravenous drugs / fluids, devices to facilitate breathing (laryngeal mask airways, endotracheal tubes,...). ODPs must also be able to assist Anaesthetists during emergency situations.[4] ODPs also conduct pre-surgery check lists, to ensure that the right patient is receiving the right treatment, and has given informed consent. These last "barrier" checks can sometimes discover important information that no-one else has picked up on, such as allergies and fasting status for example. They assist the anaesthetist with the planned anaesthetic. They stay with the patient throughout their surgical intervention and alongside the anaesthetist help to maintain the "triad of anaesthesia" which consists of:

  • Analgesia (pain control — opioid and non-opioid analgesics etc.)
  • Muscle Relaxation (to minimise patient movement during surgery and/or facilitate ventilation)
  • Hypnosis(drug induced sleep)
In some hospitals ODPs are members of "in-hospital" cardiac arrest teams, they work closely with anaesthetists to maintain the patient's airway. They also attend "trauma calls" normally in the hospital's resuscitation area where they can deal with anything from babies with respiratory difficulties to major road traffic accident victims with polytrauma.

In some NHS Trusts, ODPs are also an important resource used during emergency inter-hospital transfers, mainly to Neurosurgical hospitals, decompression chambers and intensive care units. ODPs prepare and facilitate transfers arranging drugs, equipment, emergency airway apparatus. The anaesthetist, ODP and two paramedics usually make up the transfer team.
 
Anaesthetic stage[edit]
During this stage of a patient's care, ODPs prepare the drugs and equipment needed for the patient to undergo anaesthesia. This involves preparing and checking ventilation equipment, anaesthetic machines, intravenous drugs / fluids, devices to facilitate breathing (laryngeal mask airways, endotracheal tubes,...). ODPs must also be able to assist Anaesthetists during emergency situations.[4] ODPs also conduct pre-surgery check lists, to ensure that the right patient is receiving the right treatment, and has given informed consent. These last "barrier" checks can sometimes discover important information that no-one else has picked up on, such as allergies and fasting status for example. They assist the anaesthetist with the planned anaesthetic. They stay with the patient throughout their surgical intervention and alongside the anaesthetist help to maintain the "triad of anaesthesia" which consists of:

  • Analgesia (pain control — opioid and non-opioid analgesics etc.)
  • Muscle Relaxation (to minimise patient movement during surgery and/or facilitate ventilation)
  • Hypnosis(drug induced sleep)
In some hospitals ODPs are members of "in-hospital" cardiac arrest teams, they work closely with anaesthetists to maintain the patient's airway. They also attend "trauma calls" normally in the hospital's resuscitation area where they can deal with anything from babies with respiratory difficulties to major road traffic accident victims with polytrauma.

In some NHS Trusts, ODPs are also an important resource used during emergency inter-hospital transfers, mainly to Neurosurgical hospitals, decompression chambers and intensive care units. ODPs prepare and facilitate transfers arranging drugs, equipment, emergency airway apparatus. The anaesthetist, ODP and two paramedics usually make up the transfer team.

What I'm noticing is that it's not the docs that have to bail out the assistants who put themselves in emergencies or run through check lists. Our system is very backwards
 
They are just another set of hands, there to help the anesthetist, like you'd expect from somebody in a nursing role. I don't know why our CRNAs think it's the other way round. Maybe because of all the lazy attendings who haven't done a solo anesthetic in years, let CRNAs intubate and do everything. All an assistant should do, procedure-wise, is set up and hand me my stuff.
 
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How does nearly every other country in the modern world manage to provide enough anesthetics without midlevels then?

because (relatively speaking) they have more physicians and they ration care so they have fewer surgeries
 
How does nearly every other country in the modern world manage to provide enough anesthetics without midlevels then?

because (relatively speaking) they have more physicians and they ration care so they have fewer surgeries

Exactly. There are far fewer surgeries done in Europe vs. the USA.

In the UK, a country with about 1/5 the population of the US, there were 4.7 million inpatient surgeries in 2013-14.

In the USA, there were 53 million inpatient surgeries.

On a per-person basis, that means there are more than twice as many surgeries in America compared to the UK.

And that's just inpatient procedures. If you factor in outpatient procedures (of which there are over 50 million in the US per year), the gap between the US and UK grows even larger.
 
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I recently returned from a clinical exchange rotation in Taiwan where I spent a month in an academic anesthesiology department.

Taiwan is a single-payer country, with first-world medicine capabilities. Patients pay a very small copay for most things, the government decides what essentials they will cover, and if you want bells and whistles (like a Da Vinci robot) you have to supplement out-of-pocket. While I had a jolly good time helping out with cases and doing a ton of intubations and procedures, I couldn't help but notice the subdued enthusiasm for the field coming from the anesthesiologists. Gas is a rather unpopular specialty in Taiwan. While it's not amongst the least popular specialties there (obgyn and gen surg: "all you need is a pulse"), it's less sought after by med students compared to the US. I asked the attendings why this was the case, they gave two common reasons:

  • As an anesthesiologist, your salary is tied to a hospital. Docs who work for hospitals tend to make less than docs who open up outpatient private practice clinics (as a result, family med is more competitive than anesthesia). In Taiwan, salary is a huge driver of med student interest.
  • You supervise 4-6 nurse anesthetists at a time. Sometimes this gets up to 8 (!!!) at large, busy academic centers. Interestingly, the attendings seemed proud of their massive case volume, as many had done fellowships in the US 10-20 years ago and felt that 1:1 anesthesia (more prevalent in the US at the time obviously) was too inefficient and boring.
So that's how Taiwan does it. No CRNA independence, just massive supervision ratios. Not surprisingly, anesthesia-related complications and deaths are higher in Taiwan compared to developed western nations. However, the Taiwanese are far less litigious than Americans, as people still respect and trust physicians like in ye olde golden age of American medicine, so lawsuits are uncommon. They tolerate a higher rate of complications in exchange for universal health care.

The nurse anesthetists (NAs) there are less trained than their American counterparts. The vast majority do not intubate or extubate. They could do the occasional A-line if the attending's hands were tied up, but seeing as they were wowed by my med student A-line skills and asked me for advice on placing them... yeah they don't do them often. Their job is to keep vitals stable when the attending is not in the room, and lighten the anesthetic in time for the attending to come back for extubation. If something weird happened intraop, the NAs called the attending back into the room-- sometimes even for minor desats.

Given their limited level of training, the NAs obviously knew their place and would never dream of independence. A few came up to me and asked me wide-eyed why American CRNAs were clamoring for independence. I had to explain that we've trained CRNAs to manage much wider scope of practice than theirs, which led to such high confidence.

So yes, we kind of screwed the pooch in letting CRNAs do so much. We really ought to take back our own intubations and extubations, and stop teaching CRNAs more advanced things like regional. My experience in Taiwan was a little sobering, as I could totally envision how anesthesia in the US might look like Taiwan's if single-payer happens. Lower pay, more supervision. But you know, I can't imagine myself doing anything else than anesthesia. Except pain. Maybe I'll just escape to pain medicine.
 
Their job is to keep vitals stable when the attending is not in the room, and lighten the anesthetic in time for the attending to come back for extubation. If something weird happened intraop, the NAs called the attending back into the room-- sometimes even for minor desats.
thats the way it should be
 
I recently returned from a clinical exchange rotation in Taiwan where I spent a month in an academic anesthesiology department.

Taiwan is a single-payer country, with first-world medicine capabilities. Patients pay a very small copay for most things, the government decides what essentials they will cover, and if you want bells and whistles (like a Da Vinci robot) you have to supplement out-of-pocket. While I had a jolly good time helping out with cases and doing a ton of intubations and procedures, I couldn't help but notice the subdued enthusiasm for the field coming from the anesthesiologists. Gas is a rather unpopular specialty in Taiwan. While it's not amongst the least popular specialties there (obgyn and gen surg: "all you need is a pulse"), it's less sought after by med students compared to the US. I asked the attendings why this was the case, they gave two common reasons:

  • As an anesthesiologist, your salary is tied to a hospital. Docs who work for hospitals tend to make less than docs who open up outpatient private practice clinics (as a result, family med is more competitive than anesthesia). In Taiwan, salary is a huge driver of med student interest.
  • You supervise 4-6 nurse anesthetists at a time. Sometimes this gets up to 8 (!!!) at large, busy academic centers. Interestingly, the attendings seemed proud of their massive case volume, as many had done fellowships in the US 10-20 years ago and felt that 1:1 anesthesia (more prevalent in the US at the time obviously) was too inefficient and boring.
So that's how Taiwan does it. No CRNA independence, just massive supervision ratios. Not surprisingly, anesthesia-related complications and deaths are higher in Taiwan compared to developed western nations. However, the Taiwanese are far less litigious than Americans, as people still respect and trust physicians like in ye olde golden age of American medicine, so lawsuits are uncommon. They tolerate a higher rate of complications in exchange for universal health care.

The nurse anesthetists (NAs) there are less trained than their American counterparts. The vast majority do not intubate or extubate. They could do the occasional A-line if the attending's hands were tied up, but seeing as they were wowed by my med student A-line skills and asked me for advice on placing them... yeah they don't do them often. Their job is to keep vitals stable when the attending is not in the room, and lighten the anesthetic in time for the attending to come back for extubation. If something weird happened intraop, the NAs called the attending back into the room-- sometimes even for minor desats.

Given their limited level of training, the NAs obviously knew their place and would never dream of independence. A few came up to me and asked me wide-eyed why American CRNAs were clamoring for independence. I had to explain that we've trained CRNAs to manage much wider scope of practice than theirs, which led to such high confidence.

So yes, we kind of screwed the pooch in letting CRNAs do so much. We really ought to take back our own intubations and extubations, and stop teaching CRNAs more advanced things like regional. My experience in Taiwan was a little sobering, as I could totally envision how anesthesia in the US might look like Taiwan's if single-payer happens. Lower pay, more supervision. But you know, I can't imagine myself doing anything else than anesthesia. Except pain. Maybe I'll just escape to pain medicine.

Things is we live in the United States of America, rooted in capitalism and NOT socialist commie philosophies
 
It's okay. At least he's not confusing Taiwan for Thailand. I don't expect everyone to know the complex geopolitics separating Taiwan's capitalist democracy from China's communism.
 
As informed as most Trump voters. You did note the mention of Taiwan, right?

Taiwan isnt a "true" democracy, hence it can never be a truly capitalist economy. Sure its a besutiful sovereign country, but Chinese reps not only have a seat in their parliment but run things behind the scene. They'd love to ration healthcare as much as other socialist european healthcare models.
 
I recently returned from a clinical exchange rotation in Taiwan where I spent a month in an academic anesthesiology department.

Taiwan is a single-payer country, with first-world medicine capabilities. Patients pay a very small copay for most things, the government decides what essentials they will cover, and if you want bells and whistles (like a Da Vinci robot) you have to supplement out-of-pocket. While I had a jolly good time helping out with cases and doing a ton of intubations and procedures, I couldn't help but notice the subdued enthusiasm for the field coming from the anesthesiologists. Gas is a rather unpopular specialty in Taiwan. While it's not amongst the least popular specialties there (obgyn and gen surg: "all you need is a pulse"), it's less sought after by med students compared to the US. I asked the attendings why this was the case, they gave two common reasons:

  • As an anesthesiologist, your salary is tied to a hospital. Docs who work for hospitals tend to make less than docs who open up outpatient private practice clinics (as a result, family med is more competitive than anesthesia). In Taiwan, salary is a huge driver of med student interest.
  • You supervise 4-6 nurse anesthetists at a time. Sometimes this gets up to 8 (!!!) at large, busy academic centers. Interestingly, the attendings seemed proud of their massive case volume, as many had done fellowships in the US 10-20 years ago and felt that 1:1 anesthesia (more prevalent in the US at the time obviously) was too inefficient and boring.
So that's how Taiwan does it. No CRNA independence, just massive supervision ratios. Not surprisingly, anesthesia-related complications and deaths are higher in Taiwan compared to developed western nations. However, the Taiwanese are far less litigious than Americans, as people still respect and trust physicians like in ye olde golden age of American medicine, so lawsuits are uncommon. They tolerate a higher rate of complications in exchange for universal health care.

The nurse anesthetists (NAs) there are less trained than their American counterparts. The vast majority do not intubate or extubate. They could do the occasional A-line if the attending's hands were tied up, but seeing as they were wowed by my med student A-line skills and asked me for advice on placing them... yeah they don't do them often. Their job is to keep vitals stable when the attending is not in the room, and lighten the anesthetic in time for the attending to come back for extubation. If something weird happened intraop, the NAs called the attending back into the room-- sometimes even for minor desats.

Given their limited level of training, the NAs obviously knew their place and would never dream of independence. A few came up to me and asked me wide-eyed why American CRNAs were clamoring for independence. I had to explain that we've trained CRNAs to manage much wider scope of practice than theirs, which led to such high confidence.

So yes, we kind of screwed the pooch in letting CRNAs do so much. We really ought to take back our own intubations and extubations, and stop teaching CRNAs more advanced things like regional. My experience in Taiwan was a little sobering, as I could totally envision how anesthesia in the US might look like Taiwan's if single-payer happens. Lower pay, more supervision. But you know, I can't imagine myself doing anything else than anesthesia. Except pain. Maybe I'll just escape to pain medicine.

That sounds like exactly how it should be except 6 to 8 sounds like too many. I have no idea why attendings here teach the crnas how to do so much. They shouldn't do lines, blocks, epidurals, etc.
 
Things is we live in the United States of America, rooted in capitalism and NOT socialist commie philosophies
Please go and look up the history of Taiwan. I think you are confusing it with Hong Kong...
 
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That sounds like exactly how it should be except 6 to 8 sounds like too many. I have no idea why attendings here teach the crnas how to do so much. They shouldn't do lines, blocks, epidurals, etc.
Because it's expected. The CRNAs will complain if you take away "their" procedures and "micromanage" them. They are not there to assist you, it's the other way round. And after twenty years of ASA cock up, good luck explaining your corporate employer that "your CRNA colleagues" are the ones who are wrong.

The solution is to work solo, or ACT in a small PP group where you get to decide who does what.
 
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It's okay. At least he's not confusing Taiwan for Thailand. I don't expect everyone to know the complex geopolitics separating Taiwan's capitalist democracy from China's communism.
Complex? This is world history 101. This is redneck-level ignorance.
 
Because it's expected. The CRNAs will complain if you take away "their" procedures and "micromanage" them. They are not there to assist you, it's the other way round. And after twenty years of ASA cock up, good luck explaining your corporate employer that "your CRNA colleagues" are the ones who are wrong.

The solution is to work solo, or ACT in a small PP group where you get to decide who does what.
FFP, for those of us who haven't committed yet, do you recommend taking the IM sub-specialty route such as Cardiology over Anesthesiology for one who does not possess the prototype surgical personality? Do you regret not taking that route yourself? I recall you mentioning that you had that opportunity yourself once upon a time and that you like IM. Thanks for educating us, as always.
 
I did not really have the opportunity. It's hard to get cardiology as a foreigner who doesn't know the system and has visa issues. It would have been a huge bet for me; there was a good chance to end up with a different or no fellowship. But personally that's the road I would have taken with what I know today. IM or surgery, whatever tickles your fancy, just own your patients. Don't become just another (No)Body MD, just another cog in the assembly lane.

You are welcome. I am sorry if people feel I have a personal agenda, I don't. I am more pessimistic than the average person and that shows, but if my gut feeling is half as good as my diagnostic one, anesthesia is in deep trouble.
 
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I did not really have the opportunity. It's hard to get cardiology as a foreigner who doesn't know the system and has visa issues. It would have been a huge bet for me; there was a good chance to end up with a different or no fellowship. But personally that's the road I would have taken with what I know today. IM or surgery, whatever tickles your fancy, just own your patients. Don't become just another (No)Body MD, just another cog in the assembly lane.

You are welcome. I am sorry if people feel I have a personal agenda, I don't. I am more pessimistic than the average person and that shows, but if my gut feeling is half as good as my diagnostic one, anesthesia is in deep trouble.

Would you give the same advice to an applicant who is competitive for some of the stronger academic anesthesiology programs? Are job opportunities better if you do residency at a place like UAB vs. a low-ranked academic or a community anesthesia program?
 
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Taiwan isnt a "true" democracy, hence it can never be a truly capitalist economy. Sure its a besutiful sovereign country, but Chinese reps not only have a seat in their parliment but run things behind the scene. They'd love to ration healthcare as much as other socialist european healthcare models.
The thing that really sucks in Western European socialism are taxes. Otherwise, they are generally more democratic countries than the U.S., with less poverty, less societal polarization, and a better average lifestyle. How do you think they get to work only 40 hours/week?

Go travel, get educated, and don't allow other people to just brainwash you into their thinking.
 
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The thing that really sucks in Western European socialism are taxes. Otherwise, they are generally more democratic countries than the U.S., with less poverty, less societal polarization, and a better average lifestyle. How do you think they get to work only 40 hours/week?

Go travel, get educated, and don't allow other people to just brainwash you into their thinking.

@FFP ,

Here is an article that challenges your notion of lower poverty in Europe. What is your opinion on it, considering your experience abroad?

thanks

https://fee.org/articles/most-of-europe-is-a-lot-poorer-than-most-of-the-united-states/
 
The job listings on gas work are definitely getting more depressing. Pay is getting lower, and I see more and more "10% own case supervise 4-5 CRNAs." Seeing more and more CRNA starting 200k+ no call no weekends. The thing that worries me about a lot of hospital based specialties - rads, gas, pathology if **** hits the fan you can't just go and hang a shingle(maybe for rads) , but you always have to work in, around, or for a hospital./


Then again, as a specialist- cards, GI, etc don't you have to get patients referred to you? Ive honestly thought about just saying f it all and setting up a direct primary care practice in the middle of nowhere.
 
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The job listings on gas work are definitely getting more depressing. Pay is getting lower, and I see more and more "10% own case supervise 4-5 CRNAs." Seeing more and more CRNA starting 200k+ no call no weekends. The thing that worries me about a lot of hospital based specialties - rads, gas, pathology if **** hits the fan you can't just go and hang a shingle(maybe for rads) , but you always have to work in, around, or for a hospital./


Then again, as a specialist- cards, GI, etc don't you have to get patients referred to you? Ive honestly thought about just saying f it all and setting up a direct primary care practice in the middle of nowhere.

Pick a specialty based on what you enjoy doing, and what you could see yourself doing for a long time. Many specialties go up and down in cycles. Anesthesiology is no exception. The rads job market is starting to recover a bit and this year's rads match has already gotten more difficult.

It would not be wise to pick a specialty based on somebody else's guesswork about the future.
 
The job listings on gas work are definitely getting more depressing. Pay is getting lower, and I see more and more "10% own case supervise 4-5 CRNAs." Seeing more and more CRNA starting 200k+ no call no weekends. The thing that worries me about a lot of hospital based specialties - rads, gas, pathology if **** hits the fan you can't just go and hang a shingle(maybe for rads) , but you always have to work in, around, or for a hospital./


Then again, as a specialist- cards, GI, etc don't you have to get patients referred to you? Ive honestly thought about just saying f it all and setting up a direct primary care practice in the middle of nowhere.
This.
Hospital based specialties are riding the gravy train now, but when the pain comes down on these large hospital systems that systematically price gouge the general public, then these exact same specialties will get wrecked. The more dependent you are on a hospital, then less flexibility you will have. That is the bottom line.
 
Pick a specialty based on what you enjoy doing, and what you could see yourself doing for a long time. Many specialties go up and down in cycles. Anesthesiology is no exception. The rads job market is starting to recover a bit and this year's rads match has already gotten more difficult.

It would not be wise to pick a specialty based on somebody else's guesswork about the future.
Don't rely on somebody else's guess work. Look at the practicing landscape for different specialties, talk to people, look at data - do whatever you can do to get a good picture of the current environment and make your own predictions. The truth of the matter is that MOST people aren't passionate about one particular field, and after 5 years in practice, whatever "interest" or "calling" you have will likely fade, and you'll be left with the nitty gritty. When that happens, the big question is whether or not you are being compensated well for the nitty gritty.
 
@FFP ,

Here is an article that challenges your notion of lower poverty in Europe. What is your opinion on it, considering your experience abroad?

thanks

https://fee.org/articles/most-of-europe-is-a-lot-poorer-than-most-of-the-united-states/
First, I was talking about Western Europe only, and even there we should exclude some Mediterranean countries, which are poorer.

Second, you cannot compare incomes to compare lifestyle. Because of high taxes, a lot of free/cheap services the average European gets (higher education, healthcare, public transportation, retirement) are way more expensive in the US, if they exist at all (our public transportation system is a joke). Then the average American works 25-50% more than the average European (who works 40 hours). There is a much better social safety net in Europe. They seem to have a better work-life balance. I might be wrong, but we seem to have more poor people than they do.

I am not pleading for the superiority of the European model (I moved here, didn't I), I just don't consider it inferior. Only different. Young people should be more open-minded when judging other societies, not take everything they have been taught as gospel.
 
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This.
Hospital based specialties are riding the gravy train now, but when the pain comes down on these large hospital systems that systematically price gouge the general public, then these exact same specialties will get wrecked. The more dependent you are on a hospital, then less flexibility you will have. That is the bottom line.

Meh, I still feel that anesthesiology has more exit routes than other hospital-based specialties like rads or pathology. There will always be a demand for intensivists in the ICU, and with the CC fellowship being only 1 year long, it's a small price to pay to ensure job security in the future even if drastic changes happen to the OR side of anesthesiology.

Don't rely on somebody else's guess work. Look at the practicing landscape for different specialties, talk to people, look at data - do whatever you can do to get a good picture of the current environment and make your own predictions. The truth of the matter is that MOST people aren't passionate about one particular field, and after 5 years in practice, whatever "interest" or "calling" you have will likely fade, and you'll be left with the nitty gritty. When that happens, the big question is whether or not you are being compensated well for the nitty gritty.

Honestly, there is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome going on here on SDN. I've talked to lots of attendings in various IM sub-specialties, and quite a few have told me straight up to not do IM. It's easy to think the grass is greener in another specialty when you aren't immersed in it on a day to day basis.
 
Meh, I still feel that anesthesiology has more exit routes than other hospital-based specialties like rads or pathology. There will always be a demand for intensivists in the ICU, and with the CC fellowship being only 1 year long, it's a small price to pay to ensure job security in the future even if drastic changes happen to the OR side of anesthesiology.



Honestly, there is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome going on here on SDN. I've talked to lots of attendings in various IM sub-specialties, and quite a few have told me straight up to not do IM. It's easy to think the grass is greener in another specialty when you aren't immersed in it on a day to day basis.
You have to learn how to take information at face value process it and make decisions based on how you process it. Nobody can make a decision for you. I had a hard time myself and everyone on this board did as well. believe it or not we have been in your exact s hoes. except you have access to a huge board and unlimited people to talk to. I had none of that since there was no widespread internet when i was deciding.. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
Meh, I still feel that anesthesiology has more exit routes than other hospital-based specialties like rads or pathology. There will always be a demand for intensivists in the ICU, and with the CC fellowship being only 1 year long, it's a small price to pay to ensure job security in the future even if drastic changes happen to the OR side of anesthesiology.

Honestly, there is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome going on here on SDN. I've talked to lots of attendings in various IM sub-specialties, and quite a few have told me straight up to not do IM. It's easy to think the grass is greener in another specialty when you aren't immersed in it on a day to day basis.
I have yet to speak to a single IM (including specialty) doc that regrets going into IM. I'm IM myself so I talk to my colleagues about this all the time. Yes, certain IM subspecialties lament from time to time that they should have done GI instead, but that's about it. IM is so diverse that telling someone not to go into it truly makes little sense.
 
I have yet to speak to a single IM (including specialty) doc that regrets going into IM. I'm IM myself so I talk to my colleagues about this all the time. Yes, certain IM subspecialties lament from time to time that they should have done GI instead, but that's about it. IM is so diverse that telling someone not to go into it truly makes little sense.
Starting salary for IM (55 hrs + call + paperwork + malpractice stress) < CRNA (4o hrs w/o call or final responsibility). A hard pill to swallow for those considering IM as securing a fellowship requires hard work and luck.
 
I have yet to speak to a single IM (including specialty) doc that regrets going into IM. .
Lol.
Also, literally your post just prior to this one stated how the vast majority of people end up losing interest and passion in their field. You shoulda gone into politics
 
I have yet to speak to a single IM (including specialty) doc that regrets going into IM. I'm IM myself so I talk to my colleagues about this all the time. Yes, certain IM subspecialties lament from time to time that they should have done GI instead, but that's about it. IM is so diverse that telling someone not to go into it truly makes little sense.
Starting salary for IM (55 hrs + call + paperwork + malpractice stress) < CRNA (4o hrs w/o call or final responsibility). A hard pill to swallow for those considering IM as securing a fellowship requires hard work and luck.

Securing a fellowship is easy, if you don't care which fellowship. I think for the last few years there have been more fellowship spots in nephrology than applicants. Endo and ID are also quite easy to get fellowship spots in as well.

Unfortunately, fellowships in the desirable IM subspecialties (like GI) are less easy to come by, and even if you do get a fellowship, that's a total of 6 years of training, or even 7 years if you choose to do a chief year before fellowship. And even GI has its own share of problems. Reimbursements for colonoscopies (the bread & butter of GI) have dropped significantly in recent years and are slated to receive more cuts in 2016.

I remember speaking with an endocrinologist last year who said that his outpatient work week was M-F from 8-5, with an additional 4 hours of working at home every day to finish up notes/answer messages/process paperwork/review the next day's patients. That adds up to a 65-hour work week. When you do the math, that's significantly less pay per hour than most CRNAs.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.
 
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