Gap year vs acceptance to very expensive school

[maybeapedsdoc22]

I was accepted to Midwestern University AZ, which although I am happy about, I also am not happy with their >$110,000 COA per year. That is an INSANE tuition amount and id easily be in $500,000 in debt coming out of school.

That being said, should I try to retake the DAT and maybe hope for a post December interview or maybe even take a gap year instead of going to Midwestern? My family even suggested taking a year off in another state, getting residency, and reapplying to a state school.

What do you all think?

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[ListerineGuy]

I wouldn’t worry just yet! There’s still plenty of post-dec interviews coming! Where did you apply to and have you interviewed at any of them yet?

 

[maybeapedsdoc22]

I wouldn’t worry just yet! There’s still plenty of post-dec interviews coming! Where did you apply to and have you interviewed at any of them yet?

I appreciate tour positivity!! I applied to VCU, U Tennessee, Boston, temple, and Marquette. I was rejected after interview (ugh) from LECOM UF and Nova. I honestly think it is because I got a 17 on gen chem on my DAT that I’m having so much trouble )))

 

[predent2151]

If you don’t get in next time to a school that costs under 300k then no it probably wouldn’t be worth waiting given opportunity cost. Good luck with your decision.

 

[princeafrica]

The application asks you if you got accepted the previous cycle.

You will get a lot of rejections once they find out you were accepted the previous cycle and rejected it. Michigan and Colorado have told me this.

The question will be why did you apply there? You knew the costs before applying

 

[maybeapedsdoc22]

The question will be why did you apply there? You knew the costs before applying

It’s easy to assume if you haven’t been in the position. I applied because I liked the program, and although the cost of attendance was high I would not hate to go there. I think once I was accepted the reality of post dental school debt settled in. I would go happily, I think I just need help realizing paying off that much debt could be done in a decent amount of time.

 

[deleted942432]

The question will be why did you apply there? You knew the costs before applying

To be honest, that a stupid argument. That like saying why did you drop out of dental school, you knew what you was getting into before applying. Things happen. Maybe it's just wasnt a good fit. Think long term op, there are many people that take gap year, and was accepted to a cheaper school next cycle.

 

[predent2151]

It’s easy to assume if you haven’t been in the position. I applied because I liked the program, and although the cost of attendance was high I would not hate to go there. I think once I was accepted the reality of post dental school debt settled in. I would go happily, I think I just need help realizing paying off that much debt could be done in a decent amount of time.

Think about what waiting a year actually does though. All else held constant, you’re either going to retire a year later or you’re going to lose the money from your last year of practice which could be anywhere from 200k-millions. If you want to go to dental school you should go now.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

I've done a lot of research on this on here, DentalTown as well as talking to dentists.
Paying $500k in student debt off is near crippling for a long time. On a 10 year repayment plan at 7% interest you will pay nearly 6000 dollars a month, $72,000 a year for 10 years and pay ~$700k total with interest. On a starting associate salary in the ballpark of 90-120k, I would say that's nearly impossible unless you're living at home and have nearly 0 expenses. You'll need to be making over $150k to make that somewhat comfortable. Getting a mortgage will be impossible, and a loan for a practice I assume would also be very, very difficult until you have a number of years with good production under your belt.

You could opt for the repayment options, it is fairly risky if they will be around in 25 years, it's also somewhat taking advantage of a government program that makes tax payers pay off your debt that you chose to take on and it's a system created for low earners with high student debt, not dentists who make six figures. Also you're shackled to debt for 25 years, and you will be taxed on the forgiven amount after those 25 years. Better have close to half a million saved up for that

You also have two options HPSP or NHSC and have them pay for your debt in return for years of service to either.
Or network in school and go rural, middle of nowhere Texas that has a demand for dentistry, really anywhere, go anywhere that has demand for a dentist

I agree, I don't think turning down an acceptance then reapplying is a very good option. If you really want to be a dentist, you have to make the decision of taking on this debt and becoming one, waiting for another acceptance this cycle or choosing a different career.
I'm also currently in your shoes so I know how it feels

 

[coldicecream]

I had an interview with USC, realized that I don't think the cost is worth it, and decided to decline the interview. I applied thinking what if I get some type of scholarship, but even then it would have to be a huge amount.

Have you tried calling the schools you were rejected from? This might help you with your decision. I think ultimately I would accept the offer and try the HPSP/NHSC. Imagine another year of waiting and maybe even retaking the DAT just to get rejected. Good luck on your decision though

 

[BasicG]

Even though they are top tier schools, I personally would not attend a Midwestern school without a military or NHSC scholarship. With that being said, you are guaranteed a spot at the school right now. You could reapply next cycle, but you aren't guaranteed to get into a sub 350k school to make up for the gap year.

If I were you, I would put down the $200 deposit and talk with recruiters about the 3 year HPSP.

 

[Likkriue]

I would just go

 

[sobertiger]

You will be losing out on an extra year of income. The opportunity cost is too great. Just go.

 

[dent_wannabe]

Hopefully, you have other options later, but I definitely would not turn this down due to cost of attendance. There are acceptable reasons for not attending the schools you got accepted to, and then reapplying in a future cycle. But they must be very compelling, and being scared of the debt is not one of them. You will be obliged to disclose past applications and acceptances, and schools may see this as a lack of commitment because you were given the opportunity (whereas many others don't get it each year) but didn't take it. Keep in mind that getting an acceptance to some school this cycle does not guarantee even an interview at any school (including the school you currently have an acceptance to) in future cycles.

 

[dent_wannabe]

To be honest, that a stupid argument. That like saying why did you drop out of dental school, you knew what you was getting into before applying. Things happen. Maybe it's just wasnt a good fit. Think long term op, there are many people that take gap year, and was accepted to a cheaper school next cycle.

I agree that things happen. But deciding what cost of attendance is acceptable to you is something within your control. I was always told to only apply to schools that you would attend if that were your only acceptance. There must be an extenuating circumstance out of your control in order to not attend the schools accepted to, but not have it look bad.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

It’s a hard choice, but the reality is that 500k in debt is crippling. You will be living a less than satisfactory lifestyle for some time after school assuming that your first years of practice are in the 120-140k salary range. If you’re lucky or willing to move somewhere less than ideal, then you can make more which will make repayment bearable but still a massive, pain in the ass chore. Your other option is to try for a 3 year HPSP scholarship. There’s no guarantee that you will be accepted though and you won’t find out until half way through your first year of dental school, so it is also risky. If you can secure an HPSP, 3 years goes quick and it’s a fast way to cover 75% of that tuition.

 

[allantois]

People are throwing around HPSP and NHSC as if everyone who applies gets it. Both put total amount of commitment on your life for the next 8 years and there are no guarantees of getting it.

 

[BasicG]

People are throwing around HPSP and NHSC as if everyone who applies gets it. Both put total amount of commitment on your life for the next 8 years and there are no guarantees of getting it.

Just letting the guy know there are options out there to significantly reduce that 500k debt. While there’s no guarantee he’d get a scholarship, it’s better to at least try to get one than forgoe the process and become uncle sam’s b**** for the next 15-25 years.

NHSC has a max payback of 4 years while HPSP is 4 years of active duty and 4 years in the reserve. From all my research, not a single dentist has been called back from the reserve in over 50 years.

 

[allantois]

Just letting the guy know there are options out there to significantly reduce that 500k debt. While there’s no guarantee he’d get a scholarship, it’s better to at least try to get one than forgoe the process and become uncle sam’s b**** for the next 15-25 years.

NHSC has a max payback of 4 years while HPSP is 4 years of active duty and 4 years in the reserve. From all my research, not a single dentist has been called back from the reserve in over 50 years.

I'm just saying not to discount your student loans on the hopes that you will get HPSP or NHSC, until you actually get it. 8 year calculation was from 4 years of D school plus 4 years of service, at which point one might as well pursue medicine.

And really, joining the military solely for financial purposes?

 

[macsak]

People are throwing around HPSP and NHSC as if everyone who applies gets it. Both put total amount of commitment on your life for the next 8 years and there are no guarantees of getting it.

I've thought this for a while
people post, "just do HPSP" like it's something you just sign up for and get automatically

 

[allantois]

I've thought this for a while
people post, "just do HPSP" like it's something you just sign up for and get automatically

I don't know about HPSP, but NHSC awarded less than 100 people last year, and that is across all disciplines (MD, DMD, PA, NP). I know about not counting on those programs first hand, as I applied for it myself.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

People are throwing around HPSP and NHSC as if everyone who applies gets it. Both put total amount of commitment on your life for the next 8 years and there are no guarantees of getting it.

I've thought this for a while
people post, "just do HPSP" like it's something you just sign up for and get automatically

The HPSP is a great option but unfortunately even Uncle Sam seems to be realizing the absurd cost of dental school and there are signs of eventually discontinuing the program, or at least massively downsizing it. Specialties are already downsizing (the total amount of Endo resident slots dropped this year) and specialty residencies that are not focused solely on soldier readiness such as ortho, pedo and oral path are already hinted to be completely discontinued in a few years. The truth is that with high dental school tuition it is actually becoming cheaper to outsource dentists and hire contractors / GS employees to perform the dental work instead of fronting 400K of tuition for a green suit dentist who is only going to stay in for the minimally required 4 years, and paying that soldier ~90k for the 4 years on top of that. Actual action on changing from HPSP to hiring civilians hasn't happened yet, but there is evidence that it will be happening from our command.

DENCOM used to be a thing in the army and it was a good thing because dentists operated under their own command and controlled their own protocols for the most part. Now that MEDCOM has eaten up DENCOM the dental corps is under heavy scrutiny in the way that things are done and dentistry in the army is being treated more like medicine as they try to merge dental and medical into one force. This scrutiny is worsening as the takeover from DHA gets closer to a reality. The HPSP route is still a viable option, and financially a no-brainer, but it might not be around in the next decade, when tuition for dental schools will likely be so astronomical that the only viable option of attending will be something like an HPSP scholarship unfortunately.

I kind of went on a rant, but I just wanted to point out that the slots for the HPSP are most likely going to be decreasing substantially in the future as reformation takes place in DENTAC. With DHA taking over and the changes that will come with that, the likely outcome will be a very limited number of HPSP slots for dentists that they need to deploy with units and will be slowly replacing state-side stationed dentists with civilians.

 

[tooth knockn]

Maybe dentistry is not for you!!

I was accepted to Midwestern University AZ, which although I am happy about, I also am not happy with their >$110,000 COA per year. That is an INSANE tuition amount and id easily be in $500,000 in debt coming out of school.

That being said, should I try to retake the DAT and maybe hope for a post December interview or maybe even take a gap year instead of going to Midwestern? My family even suggested taking a year off in another state, getting residency, and reapplying to a state school.

What do you all think?

If you worried about debt, Money, bills, and it hurts to even think about it ... Then don't go. . . . .Reconsider what exactly you want to do in LIFE .. . If making Bank and profits is your thing. . . Get a masters in Business and go corporate somewhere. . . .


IMO, you dont appreciate the true value of becoming a dentist and providing good honest services to the public.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

Maybe dentistry is not for you!!




If you worried about debt, Money, bills, and it hurts to even think about it ... Then don't go. . . . .Reconsider what exactly you want to do in LIFE .. . If making Bank and profits is your thing. . . Get a masters in Business and go corporate somewhere. . . .


IMO, you dont appreciate the true value of becoming a dentist and providing good honest services to the public.

I'd reckon most dentists who graduate with $500k+ in student debt aren't thinking about being good and honest, they're thinking about doing whatever it takes to pay $72k a year in student debt repayment

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Why apply if you won't go? If you get an acceptance next semester from a school with better COA I'd be pretty impressed. Then again, a year of my life taken off when I could be easily making 200,000$ plus is no where near worth it in my eyes

 

[tooth knockn]

It’s easy to assume if you haven’t been in the position. I applied because I liked the program, and although the cost of attendance was high I would not hate to go there. I think once I was accepted the reality of post dental school debt settled in. I would go happily, I think I just need help realizing paying off that much debt could be done in a decent amount of time.

Ask yourself, why do i want to become a dentist. then ask, is this worth the $50,000 to $80,000 a year in student loan payments?.. . Then ask will I be happy living with $30,000 to $60,000 a year salary .. . .

Maybe dentistry is not for you!!




If you worried about debt, Money, bills, and it hurts to even think about it ... Then don't go. . . . .Reconsider what exactly you want to do in LIFE .. . If making Bank and profits is your thing. . . Get a masters in Business and go corporate somewhere. . . .


IMO, you dont appreciate the true value of becoming a dentist and providing good honest services to the public.

I stick to my statement, there are applicants who would not think 2x.

I'd reckon most dentists who graduate with $500k+ in student debt aren't thinking about being good and honest, they're thinking about doing whatever it takes to pay $72k a year in student debt repayment

Exactly, if money is an issue, dont become a dentist which easily costs $300,000 to $600,000 to become .. . Money hungry dentists will have a rude awakening and a heavy chain around their necks for the rest of their lives ..

 

[2TH MVR]

Even though they are top tier schools

Can you define top tier schools?

 

[BasicG]

Can you define top tier schools?

Schools that allow you to do a wider scope and greater amount of procedures in the clinic than most other schools. I remember Midwestern AZ showing a graph of the average amount of procedures done at their school and some of those numbers were up to 10x greater than the requirements of other schools.

 

[allantois]

Schools that allow you to do a wider scope and greater amount of procedures in the clinic than most other schools. I remember Midwestern AZ showing a graph of the average amount of procedures done at their school and some of those numbers were up to 10x greater than the requirements of other schools.

Notion that Midwestern is a top tier school is laughable.
Leader in predatory student lending along with USC and NYU? Sounds closer to the truth

 

[Faefly]

It's past January the 3rd. What did you decide to do Op?

 

[predent2151]

450k. Top tier? Nah.

 

[BasicG]

Notion that Midwestern is a top tier school is laughable.
Leader in predatory student lending along with USC and NYU? Sounds closer to the truth

450k. Top tier? Nah.

Lol i never said their price was reasonable. Anyone who interviewed there will tell you they have a damn good clinical program. Is it worth 500k of debt? Nah, but it’s OP’s only acceptance so he has to weigh his options

 

[maybeapedsdoc22]

Some of you escalate this discussion so quick LOL

1. I LOVE dentistry. I love how detailed and how pleasing it can be for the patient and I love getting to know people. So this isn’t even a question.

2. I am going to the school — after thinking long and hard, my only issue was cost. This was an issue because I hope I will have a family one day and the last thing I want is for that to strain my relationship/family and have it hang over my head. I just want to be happy and be with my loved ones, and i realized I can do that by pursuing what I love and working hard!!

3. I do plan to specialize. I worked with an ortho and a pediatric dentist so probably down that route, which will most likely have me earning more than a general ( I am not just doing it for money, I love working with that age range) so maybe debt won’t be so bad.

Thank you all who gave me solid, good advice! To those who like making people feel worse about their decisions, I hope you won’t do that to your future patients lmaoooo. thank you all!!!!

 

[dentistspec123]

Some of you escalate this discussion so quick LOL

1. I LOVE dentistry. I love how detailed and how pleasing it can be for the patient and I love getting to know people. So this isn’t even a question.

2. I am going to the school — after thinking long and hard, my only issue was cost. This was an issue because I hope I will have a family one day and the last thing I want is for that to strain my relationship/family and have it hang over my head. I just want to be happy and be with my loved ones, and i realized I can do that by pursuing what I love and working hard!!

3. I do plan to specialize. I worked with an ortho and a pediatric dentist so probably down that route, which will most likely have me earning more than a general ( I am not just doing it for money, I love working with that age range) so maybe debt won’t be so bad.

Thank you all who gave me solid, good advice! To those who like making people feel worse about their decisions, I hope you won’t do that to your future patients lmaoooo. thank you all!!!!

Congratulations on your decision.

I know I may sound like a broken record here but just be very careful with this amount of debt. Trust me I was there once as a predental wide eyed about dentistry, and thought I will just work hard and "wont be so bad." However, as a newish pediatric grad (I have been working 2.5 years now) with also large dental school debt (but not nearly 500,000 when I finished, I was maybe 300,000 when I finished specialty) I just want you to go into dental school with a game plan. 500k debt is crippling. If you think you are going to associate for a couple of years and pay off this debt, even as a specialist, I am telling you to know it will be difficult and your quality of life will be very modest for quite a few years. Please consider as a dentist everything is on you. You can't just "work hard" and expect a high salary. Working as an associate will have a lot of fluctuations. Basically, the more procedures you do the more you get paid, the less procedures you do the less you get paid, and clinical dentistry will wear on you. Also note that because you are not necessarily a salaried employee of a large corporation or hospital like a doctor or nurse, you must pay your way through everything that other careers would provide i.e. you will most likely have to pay your own health, disability, malpractice insurance, IRA (no matching 401ks for majority of jobs), life ins, etc this is very important if you do want to start a family. Other professions as a salaried employee will provide these benefits, this is most likely not the case in dentistry since as an associate you will be working for someone elses small business and as an owner you must provide yourself with your own benefits. This will take away from your earnings.

I am not trying to convince you away from this career as your decision is made, I just want you to be practical in your decision making.

I know I may be rambling but with this debt please have a game plan.
1) Be dedicated to a plan for ownership (the highest and fastest way you can be profitable). School will not teach you this. Pick brains of faculty to see how you can manage opening or buying with your debt. Utilize financial advisors you may have at school so you can utilize the best payment plan for your loans (i.e. REPAYE vs PAYE vs 20 yr plan etc.)
2) Figure a place where you will be comfortable moving that is more rural/suburban that has a higher demand for dentistry. If you are considering NY or California metros, please reconsider as the job markets are not good especially for this amount of debt.
3) Consider military or HPSP scholarships as mentioned (dont bank on this)
4) Loan money is not FREE MONEY. Every 1$ you spend which you have borrowed is basically 2$. If your school makes you buy or rent instruments, see if you can get them cheaper (ebay amazon etc) or ask to not buy them if you really don't need it. 500k is high but you can cut costs on living I am sure to lower this estimated total.

Good luck!! sorry I threw a lot of info on you. Dont stress too much.

 

[maybeapedsdoc22]

SO helpful ^^. Thank you and best of luck to you