Georgetown distaste on this site?

[sasukeuchiha33]

Hey all,

This is something I've been wondering about for a while that his piqued my intrigue and slight confusion. I'm sure (like with most things) it's my naivete, but I can't help but notice that this site really does not look on Georgetown too favorably. I've been searching through some Georgetown threads from years past recently, and I seriously I don't think I've found more than 2-3 positive comments about it, almost every single one talks about how it's overrated because 1) it has layman's prestige but a significantly weaker name in the medical world 2) it has outdated facilities (they're majorly expanding their hospital though?) and 3) it is too expensive.

I'll admit I can see there's some truth to this, but I think it's overblown here on SDN. I've been talking to physician mentors who work in the DC area (not Georgetown affiliated) and when I told them about what I've come across on here, they literally laughed in my face. They said that Georgetown has a fantastic regional and national reputation and is considered a very prestigious school by almost everyone in the medical community, and that going there (even if I could somehow get a II and get in lol) would open doors for landing residencies at many top-tier institutions. I was shocked when I heard this, primarily because it is in stark contrast to what I've seen on here, but I don't really know what to think. Their match lists seem very impressive and better than many other schools that "outrank" by USNWR metrics, but like I said, maybe I'm missing something. Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this? Thanks!

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[doomer_md]

I'd say their reputation on SDN lies with their school's admission process rather than their actual school. Some things I distinctly remember from applying to their school a couple months ago:

• Secondary fee is $130
• Their secondary requires a 1 page love letter in PDF format about how great their school is
• "Cura personalis" is plastered on what seems like every page paragraph of their website
• One of the few (maybe only) school that encourages thank you notes

On top of all that they are a "low-yield" school therefore a massive number of people get rejected, so they get memed.

 

[sasukeuchiha33]

I'd say their reputation on SDN lies with their school's admission process rather than their actual school. Some things I distinctly remember from applying to their school a couple months ago:

• Secondary fee is $130
• Their secondary requires a 1 page love letter in PDF format about how great their school is
• "Cura personalis" is plastered on what seems like every page paragraph of their website
• One of the few (maybe only) school that encourages thank you notes

On top of all that they are a "low-yield" school therefore a massive number of people get rejected, so they get memed.

Hahaha, love it, thanks for sharing I definitely get what you're talking about, I see their admissions process talked about and memed as well, but what I'm more curious about is to why SDN thinks lowly of Georgetown as a reputable institution. I've been very surprised with how often I've seen posts on here saying that Georgetown is not that good of a school and is comparable (or in some cases even inferior) to your standard mid-tier MD school, while the perception of them in the real world seems to contradict that- almost everyone I've talked to in the medical community (including people in academic medicine) thinks of Georgetown as a prestigious and reputable institution that has a strong name (certainly stronger than schools like OSU, IU, Iowa, U of I, etc.) that can open a lot of doors. I'm curious as to where this discrepancy comes from and would be curious to hear your thoughts on that as well.

EDIT: I will also admit, this trend I'm describing does not seem to be monolithic, especially among adcoms on here. I remember @LizzyM making a post on here a while back encouraging an applicant to choose Georgetown over U of Alabama if they wanted to keep their options open, saying that she's never met a Georgetown Med grad who was not impressive and that residency directors will view Georgetown as more prestigious despite Alabama's numerical ranking advantage over Georgetown in USNWR. Maybe this negative perception is just shared by applicants/current med students while adcoms and other people truly in the know about how prestige factors into things feel differently about Georgetown.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Georgetown seems to care a lot less about stats/research than schools that are usually regarded as prestigious while caring a lot more about service hours.

What accounts for Georgetown not caring as much about academic metrics?

 

[sasukeuchiha33]

Georgetown seems to care a lot less about stats/research than schools that are usually regarded as prestigious while caring a lot more about service hours.

What accounts for Georgetown not caring as much about academic metrics?

My guess would be their Jesuit values and philosophy; from my admittedly limited understanding, Jesuit values place a big emphasis on servant leadership and community work, so it doesn't surprise me that Georgetown is a school that prioritizes mission fit over stats (to a degree).

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

They do have the worst admissions staff in the country

 

[wholeheartedly]

They do have the worst admissions staff in the country

at least attribute your quotes, lol

 

[Stoppingtheworld]

They do have the worst admissions staff in the country

I interacted with someone on the admissions staff a few years ago and they came across a little too snarky and full of themselves - wanting to be addressed as “Dean/president/assistant director/director/etc (for discretion) when their position didn’t warrant it. I understand that this was only one person, but they represent the institution.

 

[LizzyM]

When you have as many applications as Georgetown has, and reject as many applicants as Georgetown does, it is not surprising that there appears to be a vocal group that is negative toward Georgetown... there are just so many disappointed applicants!

BTW, if anyone has interviewed at Georgetown in the recent past, is the infamous Mrs. Sullivan still there?

 

[Goro]

Hahaha, love it, thanks for sharing I definitely get what you're talking about, I see their admissions process talked about and memed as well, but what I'm more curious about is to why SDN thinks lowly of Georgetown as a reputable institution. I've been very surprised with how often I've seen posts on here saying that Georgetown is not that good of a school and is comparable (or in some cases even inferior) to your standard mid-tier MD school, while the perception of them in the real world seems to contradict that- almost everyone I've talked to in the medical community (including people in academic medicine) thinks of Georgetown as a prestigious and reputable institution that has a strong name (certainly stronger than schools like OSU, IU, Iowa, U of I, etc.) that can open a lot of doors. I'm curious as to where this discrepancy comes from and would be curious to hear your thoughts on that as well.

EDIT: I will also admit, this trend I'm describing does not seem to be monolithic, especially among adcoms on here. I remember @LizzyM making a post on here a while back encouraging an applicant to choose Georgetown over U of Alabama if they wanted to keep their options open, saying that she's never met a Georgetown Med grad who was not impressive and that residency directors will view Georgetown as more prestigious despite Alabama's numerical ranking advantage over Georgetown in USNWR. Maybe this negative perception is just shared by applicants/current med students while adcoms and other people truly in the know about how prestige factors into things feel differently about Georgetown.

USNWR rankings only have meaning to status-conscious pre-meds and medical school Deans.

I always include Gtown on my school lists. Over the years I've seen less distaste of G Town in these forums.

 

[deleted1114112]

Georgetown seems to care a lot less about stats/research than schools that are usually regarded as prestigious while caring a lot more about service hours.

What accounts for Georgetown not caring as much about academic metrics?

You could say the same thing for Pitt or UCSF though.

 

[DoctorFate]

I think a lot of it comes down to its religious nature too. I've never seen a single positive thing about Loma Linda or LUCOM on this site. Schools like Creighton and Georgetown aren't nearly as bad, but that religious side can still be a bit of a turnoff for many. Personally, I chose not to apply to either because of it. I do think in general schools that have a great name outside of medicine tend to receive some level of an internal boost even within medicine beyond their USNWR rankings, such as UVA, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Brown.

 

[KnightDoc]

I think a lot of it comes down to its religious nature too. I've never seen a single positive thing about Loma Linda or LUCOM on this site. Schools like Creighton and Georgetown aren't nearly as bad, but that religious side can still be a bit of a turnoff for many. Personally, I chose not to apply to either because of it. I do think in general schools that have a great name outside of medicine tend to receive some level of an internal boost even within medicine beyond their USNWR rankings, such as UVA, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Brown.

True, but OP specifically referenced people in medicine laughing in their face. I think @LizzyM got it exactly right. GTown is one of the most popular schools in the country to apply to, due to its accessible stats and great location. That leads to a disproportionate number of unhappy customers.

Beyond that, it's worth remembering that mid tier schools are all very fine institutions. People crapping all over them are maybe comparing them to the tippy top school at the very top of the pyramid, and there probably is something to that, but it's generally unfair. Schools like GTown, Jefferson, Rush, etc. are insanely difficult to get into in relation to their ranking, prestige, etc., but they are still great schools.

Bottom line, GTown is a great school, but it's not Harvard, even if some people in the DC area think of of it as the Harvard of DC. A lot of people apply because they'd love to go and think they have a decent shot, and then feel compelled to poop all over it if they are unsuccessful. Human nature. Not much more to it than that.

If you apply, go in with your eyes wide open. Even with very attainable 3.79/513 median stats, you are competing with over 14,000 people for 200 seats, and that was before last year's surge in applications, so you can probably add over 2,000 to that number.

 

[MyOdyssey]

You could say the same thing for Pitt or UCSF though.

Aren’t Pitt and UCSF more research oriented?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

I think a lot of it comes down to its religious nature too. I've never seen a single positive thing about Loma Linda or LUCOM on this site. Schools like Creighton and Georgetown aren't nearly as bad, but that religious side can still be a bit of a turnoff for many. Personally, I chose not to apply to either because of it. I do think in general schools that have a great name outside of medicine tend to receive some level of an internal boost even within medicine beyond their USNWR rankings, such as UVA, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Brown.

Honestly having attended a Jesuit school, religious things aren’t in your face that much outside of the typical Jesuit stuff which is far more service than religious focused.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I had a handful of interactions with Georgetown’s admissions office when I was applying, and every single one was characterized by unnecessary rudeness and brusqueness. I have no opinion on the greater institution of Georgetown, I’m sure it’s a fine school overall.

My opinion on Georgetown admissions has nothing to do with my disappointment about being rejected because I was rejected from a lot of schools but I only walked away with bad feelings about Georgetown. It’s like their staff goes out of their way to be dismissive, curt, and discourteous. I had heard some talk about their unprofessionalism prior to applying, but I had to experience it myself to believe it.

I learned to say “please” and “thank you” when I was three. It is not that hard to train your staff on basic professional courtesy.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hey all,

This is something I've been wondering about for a while that his piqued my intrigue and slight confusion. I'm sure (like with most things) it's my naivete, but I can't help but notice that this site really does not look on Georgetown too favorably. I've been searching through some Georgetown threads from years past recently, and I seriously I don't think I've found more than 2-3 positive comments about it, almost every single one talks about how it's overrated because 1) it has layman's prestige but a significantly weaker name in the medical world 2) it has outdated facilities (they're majorly expanding their hospital though?) and 3) it is too expensive.

I'll admit I can see there's some truth to this, but I think it's overblown here on SDN. I've been talking to physician mentors who work in the DC area (not Georgetown affiliated) and when I told them about what I've come across on here, they literally laughed in my face. They said that Georgetown has a fantastic regional and national reputation and is considered a very prestigious school by almost everyone in the medical community, and that going there (even if I could somehow get a II and get in lol) would open doors for landing residencies at many top-tier institutions. I was shocked when I heard this, primarily because it is in stark contrast to what I've seen on here, but I don't really know what to think. Their match lists seem very impressive and better than many other schools that "outrank" by USNWR metrics, but like I said, maybe I'm missing something. Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this? Thanks!

Perhaps Georgetown lacks relative prestige in the world of academic medicine due to its relative lack of emphasis on research. That would explain its ranking.

 

[KnightDoc]

I had a handful of interactions with Georgetown’s admissions office when I was applying, and every single one was characterized by unnecessary rudeness and brusqueness. I have no opinion on the greater institution of Georgetown, I’m sure it’s a fine school overall.

My opinion on Georgetown admissions has nothing to do with my disappointment about being rejected because I was rejected from a lot of schools but I only walked away with bad feelings about Georgetown. It’s like their staff goes out of their way to be dismissive, curt, and discourteous. I had heard some talk about their unprofessionalism prior to applying, but I had to experience it myself to believe it.

I learned to say “please” and “thank you” when I was three. It is not that hard to train your staff on basic professional courtesy.

Yup, and they are not the only school that acts this way. It's the ultimate manifestation of @Goro and @gonnif's so-called "sellers' market." They do it because they can, not because it's right. 62,000 people chasing 22,000 slots are forced to tolerate a lot of BS that they wouldn't under different circumstances, and this allows staff to get away with things that would cost their employers money and cause them to lose their jobs in different environments.

 

[doomer_md]

Also who could possibly forget this SDN classic

Worst admissions staff in the country.

I'm a little bit pissed right now. I hate Georgetown. I'm nominating them for the worst admissions committee in the nation. I got the invite for an interview a month ago and it told me I had to schedual by october 1st and interview by the 28th. We'll I teach a class in California every...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Lifeblood_20]

I personally did not apply to Georgetown so I cannot add information about them to the discussion... but I want to offer my perspective that a school's admissions personnel most definitely represents the school, and if the adcoms are rude/unprofessional/unreasonable, they and their institution absolutely deserve to be called out.

At my medical school, the admissions personnel are some of the nicest people I have met. The admissions office is across the street from our lecture halls and I would stop by the office to say hi to the staff all the time because they not only do admissions but also are very invested in the success of the med students. During the application cycle, they were also the most pleasant adcoms I have communicated with. I knew I chose the right school because they represented the culture of support at this school.

Yes, premeds and applicants (and medical trainees in general) may have very little power to make an impact, but we should not perpetuate the idea that just because there are more applicants than med school seats, we would tolerate any unprofessional behavior on the behalf of adcoms and by extension the med schools. I can see this only permeates the toxic hierarchical structures in medicine even before entering the gate.

 

[KnightDoc]

Also who could possibly forget this SDN classic

Worst admissions staff in the country.

I'm a little bit pissed right now. I hate Georgetown. I'm nominating them for the worst admissions committee in the nation. I got the invite for an interview a month ago and it told me I had to schedual by october 1st and interview by the 28th. We'll I teach a class in California every...

forums.studentdoctor.net

That is awesome!!! Not so much for validation that the admission office has historically been difficult to deal with, but as a time capsule in how things changed over the past 20 years.

Can you imagine someone receiving an II today and not dropping everything? Can you further imagine someone asking for an exception and being told what steps to take to be considered reacting by saying "yeah, whatever, maybe if I get around to it"? And then going bonkers two full weeks later when he did not do what he was told to do, upon letting a deadline to act pass and being informed that he would not be receiving an exception and his II was gone?

As surprising as that is the fact that no one pointed this out, at least not in the beginning of the thread! (I haven't made it through all 20 pages to see if anyone ever did point this out!)

Nice find! It demonstrates that GTown was never at the top of anyone's list of T10 most awesome admissions offices. Even more revealing to me, though, is how the sellers' market has developed, and how applicants have been conditioned to be much more desperate than in the past.

 

[DoctorFate]

That is awesome!!! Not so much for validation that the admission office has historically been difficult to deal with, but as a time capsule in how things changed over the past 20 years.

Can you imagine someone receiving an II today and not dropping everything? Can you further imagine someone asking for an exception and being told what steps to take to be considered reacting by saying "yeah, whatever, maybe if I get around to it"? And then going bonkers two full weeks later when he did not do what he was told to do, upon letting a deadline to act pass and being informed that he would not be receiving an exception and his II was gone?

As surprising as that is the fact that no one pointed this out, at least not in the beginning of the thread! (I haven't made it through all 20 pages to see if anyone ever did point this out!)

Nice find! It demonstrates that GTown was never at the top of anyone's list of T10 most awesome admissions offices. Even more revealing to me, though, is how the sellers' market has developed, and how applicants have been conditioned to be much more desperate than in the past.

The vast majority of replied are on the OP's side too, when it's pretty clear he was the source of the problem.

 

[KnightDoc]

The vast majority of replied are on the OP's side too, when it's pretty clear he was the source of the problem.

That's my whole point -- expectations have VASTLY changed in the past 20 years. I mean, there's no clear right and wrong, because there is honestly no reason a candidate cannot be accommodated, other than that the sellers' market does not require it, and we have been conditioned over the years to expect to be treated like crap, so now we are the source of the problem when we don't write umpteen LOIs, or letters to the dean detailing why we need an interview deadline exception, or whatever.

 

[LizzyM]

It is interesting from these recent replies that the admissions offices (separate from the adcoms) have trained applicants to hypervigilance and prioritization of the school's convenience over all else. The schools call the tune and the applicants dance.

 

[Mojotheburrito]

My stats and ECs were fairly decent for this school but the second I got the secondary I immediately decided I would never go. I will never lie and write a one page essay about Jesuit values - get the hell outta here.

 

[TehTeddy]

I assumed it was because of Jalby's epic thread 20 years ago. The tradition of dunking on Georgetown's admissions process hasn't stopped since.
Also they make you write a book expressing your love for them in their secondary.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When I was applying a few years ago, my friend interviewed at Georgetown and said in their orientation, applicants were told to make sure they write at least 5 letters of intent over the cycle.

 

[Browns99]

Hey all,

This is something I've been wondering about for a while that his piqued my intrigue and slight confusion. I'm sure (like with most things) it's my naivete, but I can't help but notice that this site really does not look on Georgetown too favorably. I've been searching through some Georgetown threads from years past recently, and I seriously I don't think I've found more than 2-3 positive comments about it, almost every single one talks about how it's overrated because 1) it has layman's prestige but a significantly weaker name in the medical world 2) it has outdated facilities (they're majorly expanding their hospital though?) and 3) it is too expensive.

I'll admit I can see there's some truth to this, but I think it's overblown here on SDN. I've been talking to physician mentors who work in the DC area (not Georgetown affiliated) and when I told them about what I've come across on here, they literally laughed in my face. They said that Georgetown has a fantastic regional and national reputation and is considered a very prestigious school by almost everyone in the medical community, and that going there (even if I could somehow get a II and get in lol) would open doors for landing residencies at many top-tier institutions. I was shocked when I heard this, primarily because it is in stark contrast to what I've seen on here, but I don't really know what to think. Their match lists seem very impressive and better than many other schools that "outrank" by USNWR metrics, but like I said, maybe I'm missing something. Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this? Thanks!

"They said that Georgetown has a fantastic regional and national reputation and is considered a very prestigious school by almost everyone in the medical community, and that going there (even if I could somehow get a II and get in lol) would open doors for landing residencies at many top-tier institutions. I was shocked when I heard this, primarily because it is in stark contrast to what I've seen on here, but I don't really know what to think."

Are you serious that you were "shocked" to hear that after talking to some physician mentors who told you that the program is well-respected and opens doors for residency because it was in contrast to what you seen on SDN? C'mon now, do you truly believe all that you read on anonymous public forums? Georgetown is a fantastic program ( No dog in the race) and please don't SOLEY base your opinion on schools because of what you heard here.

 

[YCAGA]

When I was applying a few years ago, my friend interviewed at Georgetown and said in their orientation, applicants were told to make sure they write at least 5 letters of intent over the cycle.

Georgetown out here like it’s collecting evidence for 10,000+ restraining orders per year

Edit: or a few hundred from interviewed students but regardless that is a level of neediness that I haven’t seen since people had girlfriends and boyfriends in 6th grade.