Goldman Sachs Internship Vs. Research Junior Summer

[BRepublic]

Hey, this is a throwaway account and I am in no means trying to brag, I'm just really confused.

A little bit of background: I am a student concentrating in Applied Mathematics-Biology and Chemistry or Computer Science (figuring it out still) at Ivy League (Non HYP). I received an offer from Goldman Sachs to be an intern in Risk Division. The amount of money I would be making is nice and it would really help next summer. My GPA is 3.75-4.00 , and I do clinical volunteering at the pediatrics triage center, and serve on student gov, among other things (for the sake of anonymity)

However, I know junior year research is really important. So, I am really unsure of what to do here, if I should apply to Rockefeller/Mayo/Stanford research programs. I don't plan on taking a year or two off before going to med school, but would consider it if it meant taking GS full time, and I plan on taking the MCAT my junior spring, beginning of spring semester and apply for class of 22 admission. Any tips, advice, help on what I should do? Please offer some words of wisdom! Thanks guys!

Would this be a turn off for admissions, ie) selling your soul to the financial cogs of the world? I'm wondering if this is opening up more problems than it solves.

Happy to further elaborate if need be, just don't wanna overshare!

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[deleted1054719]

Take the internship imo. You won't get that kind of opportunity often and it'll be a good way to triple check you want medicine above other fields!

 

[KnightDoc]

Hey, this is a throwaway account and I am in no means trying to brag, I'm just really confused.

A little bit of background: I am a student concentrating in Applied Mathematics-Biology and Chemistry or Computer Science (figuring it out still) at Ivy League (Non HYP). I received an offer from Goldman Sachs to be an intern in Risk Division. The amount of money I would be making is nice and it would really help next summer. My GPA is 3.75-4.00 , and I do clinical volunteering at the pediatrics triage center, and serve on student gov, among other things (for the sake of anonymity)

However, I know junior year research is really important. So, I am really unsure of what to do here, if I should apply to Rockefeller/Mayo/Stanford research programs. I don't plan on taking a year or two off before going to med school, but would consider it if it meant taking GS full time, and I plan on taking the MCAT my junior spring, beginning of spring semester and apply for class of 22 admission. Any tips, advice, help on what I should do? Please offer some words of wisdom! Thanks guys!

Would this be a turn off for admissions, ie) selling your soul to the financial cogs of the world? I'm wondering if this is opening up more problems than it solves.

Happy to further elaborate if need be, just don't wanna overshare!

It honestly sounds like a great opportunity, and there is really no need to overshare. I don't think it's a question of selling your soul.

It would, however, call into question the altruistic motives behind all of your box checking ECs that we all engage in, signal to the schools that your commitment to medicine is not unwavering, and demonstrate that you really are in it for the money. As true as that might be for many people, few have an opportunity like this to shove it in adcoms' faces.

Tough call, because I'm sure it's a significant amount of money. If you pursue this path (medicine), however, it will be the first of many such tough calls. (I.e., if things go well as GS, you'll be giving up a helluva lot more than one summer's worth of an intern's salary to attend med school.) Good luck!!!

 

[zeddd78893]

If this internship makes as much money as I've heard I would definitely take it. Why would anyone question your commitment to medicine because you spent ONE SUMMER pursuing an interest @KnightDoc ??? I see you right now writing your diversity essay about being one of the few pre meds with a financial / business background and how that'll help you add to the diversity of your class. It is good to be unique no matter what the cookie cutters in this sub will tell you

Just do research during school. I highly doubt those summer research programs make you more competitive than a productive research experience through the year would

 

[KnightDoc]

If this internship makes as much money as I've heard I would definitely take it. Why would anyone question your commitment to medicine because you spent ONE SUMMER pursuing an interest @KnightDoc ??? I see you right now writing your diversity essay about being one of the few pre meds with a financial / business background and how that'll help you add to the diversity of your class. It is good to be unique no matter what the cookie cutters in this sub will tell you

Just do research during school. I highly doubt those summer research programs make you more competitive than a productive research experience through the year would

I dunno. Maybe because that interest happens to be very well paid, and isn't medicine?

We all spend hundreds if not thousands of hours volunteering to demonstrate that we are motivated by more than money, and then it turns out that our outside interest is Wall Street finance.

I agree it's an extremely attractive opportunity that most of us would never have, and would be very difficult to turn down. On the other hand, it is nothing compared to the future financial opportunities OP will be forgoing if medicine is pursued. Maybe it makes for a great diversity essay. Maybe it's a vivid demonstration of a viable Plan B that demonstrates how much OP is motivated by money, not serving humanity. What do the adcoms have to say? @gyngyn? @LizzyM?

 

[zeddd78893]

I dunno. Maybe because that interest happens to be very well paid, and isn't medicine?

We all spend hundreds if not thousands of hours volunteering to demonstrate that we are motivated by more than money, and then it turns out that our outside interest is Wall Street finance.

I agree it's an extremely attractive opportunity that most of us would never have, and would be very difficult to turn down. On the other hand, it is nothing compared to the future financial opportunities OP will be forgoing if medicine is pursued. Maybe it makes for a great diversity essay. Maybe it's a vivid demonstration of a viable Plan B that demonstrates how much OP is motivated by money, not serving humanity. What do the adcoms have to say? @gyngyn? @LizzyM?

Honestly, I can't take your advice seriously knowing that you've never even applied to medical school yet speak as if you're a trustworthy adcom on this forum

Hey OP, you should take mine and everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, but as someone that has actually crafted an AMCAS application and interviewed, I can tell you that it is good not to be a gunner and actually do things in the real world. Every interviewer I had brought up the non-medical parts of my application and seemed more interested in that over my clinical experiences. I got asked about my role as President in a sorority more than my clinical volunteering. Same about the jobs I used to work as a server.

 

[deleted1054719]

Honestly, I can't take your advice seriously knowing that you've never even applied to medical school yet speak as if you're a trustworthy adcom on this forum

Hey OP, you should take mine and everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, but as someone that has actually crafted an AMCAS application and interviewed, I can tell you that it is good not to be a gunner and actually do things in the real world. Every interviewer I had brought up the non-medical parts of my application and seemed more interested in that over my clinical experiences. I got asked about my role as President in a sorority more than my clinical volunteering. Same about the jobs I used to work as a server.

I can second this advice as someone who has talked many many times about the engineering jobs I've done on interviews! They loved it! I was asked a total of 3 times over the course of many interviews about my clinical experiences. That's it.

 

[BRepublic]

Thanks @Sterlinyx @KnightDoc and @zeddd78893 for your insights. The main reason I'm attracted to this role is a taste of the outer world, as cliché as that might seem. In this role, the skills I've worked on would be put to the test, working with numeric's to derive conclusions. I guess it would be a matter of the "spin" on it. Part of why I'm at this crossroads is that I can't trust my peers to offer unbiased advice, as they 1) are working at the firm this summer, or 2) kind of baffled as to how i fell into this role, so this is why I'm reluctant.

compared to the typical premed, chocked full with EC's related to the medical field with countless hours from research it lends to the typical altruistic attitude, I feel like this would be almost a sharp deviation from that norm. I might set up a meeting at my career center to discuss further options. I will be working on a thesis my senior year if that matters. I guess it just matters on perspective.

 

[lanzhou_lamian]

If you're interested in the internship, go for it. Med schools like 3 dimensional candidates. Obviously, you need to check off the necessary boxed (pre-med coursework, clinical volunteering, etc.), but having unique experiences is also beneficial. GS is unique and could be fun.

I wouldn't worry about people thinking you "sold your soul." There's nothing criminal about having work experience in a lucrative field and that does not make you any more or less of an altruistic person. There are former management consultants and wall street i-bankers in my class, myself included, who worked full time in those industries before med school. Working on the business/finance side of healthcare definitely helped my application, and the time management and stress management skills that I learned through those jobs have helped me in medicine.

 

[deleted1054719]

Thanks @Sterlinyx @KnightDoc and @zeddd78893 for your insights. The main reason I'm attracted to this role is a taste of the outer world, as cliché as that might seem. In this role, the skills I've worked on would be put to the test, working with numeric's to derive conclusions. I guess it would be a matter of the "spin" on it. Part of why I'm at this crossroads is that I can't trust my peers to offer unbiased advice, as they 1) are working at the firm this summer, or 2) kind of baffled as to how i fell into this role, so this is why I'm reluctant.

compared to the typical premed, chocked full with EC's related to the medical field with countless hours from research it lends to the typical altruistic attitude, I feel like this would be almost a sharp deviation from that norm. I might set up a meeting at my career center to discuss further options. I will be working on a thesis my senior year if that matters. I guess it just matters on perspective.

You do not need to have an AMCAS full of medical/altruistic ECs to be accepted! Deviating from the norm into other interests and fields can be a refreshing change of scenary and give you a leg up on diversity of experiences. Some things don't require you to spin it into being a part of your journey to medicine - it's okay to have fun, do other things, and explore!

 

[zeddd78893]

Here's a med student at Case Western talking about her experience interning at JP Morgan during undergrad:

TL;DR is that she took it to explore a non-medical interest; learned a lot; was able to connect this back to "Why Medicine"; gathered interest at interviews

 

[Moko]

As others have mentioned, you should pursue whatever makes you happy. This is a great opportunity and the optics can always be addressed later in the application and interview. It's important to remember that there is a diversity of opinions within each admissions committee. Behind closed doors, some adcom members may question your altruism and motivations for pursuing medicine.. but there will also be other adcom members who see the value of these non-medical pursuits for your personal growth and contribution to a class's diversity. Ultimately, the rest of your extracurricular activities and how you present yourself and your narrative will determine your outcome. I've seen adcom members similarly fault applicants for being "too entrepreneurial", wanting to pursue a MBA or a lucrative specialty, being interested in administration, being too into research and medical device development, and for not having enough pursuits outside of medicine. You can't please everyone. There is something to be said for authenticity, and clearly, plenty of students with banking and consulting backgrounds get in each and every year. So it's not a deal breaker. Just my thoughts.

 

[LizzyM]

The mention of "Risk Division" reminded me that I watched Margin Call on Netflix the other day. You don't need to know anything about markets to follow the film and see what happens when someone in the risk division sees something hinky at the dawn of the 2008 banking meltdown and raises an alert... there are some moral issues that are very interesting in this film that takes place over just 24 hours and features a really stellar cast.

I agree that a summer internship in i-banking is a good way to make some cash and really see if there is something other than medicine that will make you happy. People are always saying, "if there is something other than medicine that will make you happy, go for it." This is your chance to check out an alternative career, learn something about people you might not otherwise interact with (people who might someday be your patients) and have something somewhat novel to talk about at interviews.

BTW, as I've said before, interviewers prefer to ask questions about things that are novel rather than what was most decisive in getting you the interview. It keeps things interesting for us rather than talking about your shadowing and hospital volunteering.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It would, however, call into question the altruistic motives behind all of your box checking ECs that we all engage in, signal to the schools that your commitment to medicine is not unwavering, and demonstrate that you really are in it for the money.

I have N=1 with 10+ IIs (from current cycle) for this and not my kid

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Hey, this is a throwaway account and I am in no means trying to brag, I'm just really confused.

A little bit of background: I am a student concentrating in Applied Mathematics-Biology and Chemistry or Computer Science (figuring it out still) at Ivy League (Non HYP). I received an offer from Goldman Sachs to be an intern in Risk Division. The amount of money I would be making is nice and it would really help next summer. My GPA is 3.75-4.00 , and I do clinical volunteering at the pediatrics triage center, and serve on student gov, among other things (for the sake of anonymity)

However, I know junior year research is really important. So, I am really unsure of what to do here, if I should apply to Rockefeller/Mayo/Stanford research programs. I don't plan on taking a year or two off before going to med school, but would consider it if it meant taking GS full time, and I plan on taking the MCAT my junior spring, beginning of spring semester and apply for class of 22 admission. Any tips, advice, help on what I should do? Please offer some words of wisdom! Thanks guys!

Would this be a turn off for admissions, ie) selling your soul to the financial cogs of the world? I'm wondering if this is opening up more problems than it solves.

Happy to further elaborate if need be, just don't wanna overshare!

Can't you get research experience on campus i.e. during fall and spring semesters?

 

[Select All That Apply]

@BRepublic Congratulations on getting your first foot into the lucrative door of investment banking. I have no doubt that you already know you are taking the position, because it makes no sense otherwise why you would not do your own cost-benefit analysis considering you had to apply for the internship. Your background is also potentially in applied mathematics / comp-sci so running any of the numbers or if-then scenarios would lead you to take the position as there is no tenable alternative at this time e.g. no research offers on the table per initial post (therefore sunk cost fallacy does not apply). Hard to believe that an intern for a risk asset management division would not doing their own due diligence on the risk of their own decision before commitment. Hence why I think most feedback in this thread is sort of a wash since you either have already made up your own mind or you will be making up your own mind.

 

[BRepublic]

@BRepublic Congratulations on getting your first foot into the lucrative door of investment banking. I have no doubt that you already know you are taking the position, because it makes no sense otherwise why you would not do your own cost-benefit analysis considering you had to apply for the internship. Your background is also potentially in applied mathematics / comp-sci so running any of the numbers or if-then scenarios would lead you to take the position as there is no tenable alternative at this time e.g. no research offers on the table per initial post (therefore sunk cost fallacy does not apply). Hard to believe that an intern for a risk asset management division would not doing their own due diligence on the risk of their own decision before commitment. Hence why I think most feedback in this thread is sort of a wash since you either have already made up your own mind or you will be making up your own mind.

Lol, reading your response gave me quite a chuckle +1 for that!, it reminded me of what my friends have told me, originally when I applied I did it for the what if's, but now, as you mentioned when push comes to shove I'm at this crossroads (not necessarily in life but this summer) staring down the end of a barrel of 80-90 hour work weeks and I'm wary to see if it would be a wise decision to work on my applications this summer as well as work, but I'm beginning to stray from the original question in mind. It also doesn't hurt to garner the opinions from people in this forum. This seems totally irrational, like just take the job dum dum, but I'm a person who loves to analyze.

It makes sense to further go into research during the semesters at university, but its just the deviation from the normal which was making me uneasy. The thoughts of working in this field are exciting however, and like others have mentioned would offer valuable insight on where my heart lies, so that I can confidently say Medical school is what I want, rather than saying, well i've never done anything else so it has to be med school or bust!

That being said if any of ya'll want to tackle recruiting along with pre-med course load I'll be happy to share, there are def a couple of things I wish someone would have told me.

 

[BRepublic]

Here's a med student at Case Western talking about her experience interning at JP Morgan during undergrad:

TL;DR is that she took it to explore a non-medical interest; learned a lot; was able to connect this back to "Why Medicine"; gathered interest at interviews

This is a very interesting perspective and it's something that I would really take into account!

 

[Banco]

I did something very similar during undergrad; I would go for it, you will make a lot of money and it's an interesting experience, and it made me realize that I definitely did not want to do banking lol. Plus risk management can be spun favorably (i.e. very analytical and "research" like). Also, going through recruiting season for banking made med school interviews a piece of cake.

Make sure that you don't neglect other aspects of your application though, and be sure to do some research at some point in the semester.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It makes sense to further go into research during the semesters at university, but its just the deviation from the normal which was making me uneasy.

Do you think doing research during the semesters will impact your grades or other ECs? you can do 5-10 hrs/wk research.