Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

[ognart]

Hi @Goro,

A new poster here, but I needed some advice on what to do and your advice is much appreciated. I am trying to decide what I should do next semester as well as next fall.

I am a NV resident going to UNLV as a DIY postbacc student trying to get into DO school or potentially NV state MD programs. As you have probably guessed, I am trying to reinvent myself by taking more upper division science classes. My undergraduate overall GPA wasn't too great: cGPA: 2.98; sGPA: 2.66. So far in the postbacc, I have taken 24 credits: ≈ 3.9 sGPA.

Human Anatomy: A
Anatomy lab: A
Immunology: A
Microbiology: A
Neurobiology: A
Adv Biochem: A
Mol Genetics: A
Pathogenesis: B+

Spring 21 semester:

Histology
Genetics: human disease

With these new grades, I will have an overall cGPA of 3.1 and sGPA of 2.98 (potentially 3.05 sGPA after spring semester taking 7 credits). I am planning on taking more science classes in the spring, but I have a dilemma. Should I take a smaller course load and study for the May MCAT (and maybe apply to a couple DO schools in June) or should I forget about the May MCAT and focus more on 3 or 4 classes and take it during the summer instead? I am wanting to apply to SMP programs for the fall as well. I think it might be a better option rather than staying at UNLV taking more undergraduate biology classes? You think this is the right move? I know they are expensive, but its definitely worth it in the end and I am willing to do this. I am planning on applying to these SMP programs:

AZCOM
RVU (St George or Colorado location)
TUNCOM
VCOM
CSU Colorado
KCU
(maybe a few others including UNRs post bacc)

Volunteer work ≈ 800 hours caregiving
Shadowing experience ≈ 150 hours
Community service at homeless shelter ≈ 100 hours
(I want to get more hours in, but covid is preventing me from doing so)

One more thing: I was actually interested in dental school last year and took the DAT, but then decided I really do not want dental school. I received a 19AA. My point being is that most SMPs require the MCAT or DAT score to apply. I want to apply earlier than May, so could I actually use my DAT score to apply to SMPs in December even though I want DO (and take MCAT later)? Thanks Goro!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro,

A new poster here, but I needed some advice on what to do and your advice is much appreciated. I am trying to decide what I should do next semester as well as next fall.

I am a NV resident going to UNLV as a DIY postbacc student trying to get into DO school or potentially NV state MD programs. As you have probably guessed, I am trying to reinvent myself by taking more upper division science classes. My undergraduate overall GPA wasn't too great: cGPA: 2.98; sGPA: 2.66. So far in the postbacc, I have taken 24 credits: ≈ 3.9 sGPA.

Human Anatomy: A
Anatomy lab: A
Immunology: A
Microbiology: A
Neurobiology: A
Adv Biochem: A
Mol Genetics: A
Pathogenesis: B+

Spring 21 semester:

Histology
Genetics: human disease

With these new grades, I will have an overall cGPA of 3.1 and sGPA of 2.98 (potentially 3.05 sGPA after spring semester taking 7 credits). I am planning on taking more science classes in the spring, but I have a dilemma. Should I take a smaller course load and study for the May MCAT (and maybe apply to a couple DO schools in June) or should I forget about the May MCAT and focus more on 3 or 4 classes and take it during the summer instead? I am wanting to apply to SMP programs for the fall as well. I think it might be a better option rather than staying at UNLV taking more undergraduate biology classes? You think this is the right move? I know they are expensive, but its definitely worth it in the end and I am willing to do this. I am planning on applying to these SMP programs:

AZCOM
RVU (St George or Colorado location)
TUNCOM
VCOM
CSU Colorado
KCU
(maybe a few others including UNRs post bacc)

Volunteer work ≈ 800 hours caregiving
Shadowing experience ≈ 150 hours
Community service at homeless shelter ≈ 100 hours
(I want to get more hours in, but covid is preventing me from doing so)

One more thing: I was actually interested in dental school last year and took the DAT, but then decided I really do not want dental school. I received a 19AA. My point being is that most SMPs require the MCAT or DAT score to apply. I want to apply earlier than May, so could I actually use my DAT score to apply to SMPs in December even though I want DO (and take MCAT later)? Thanks Goro!

You have plenty of time to take the MCAT, and you have done a great job of Reinventing yourself! Take three to four courses in the spring, and then take the MCAT in June or July. Then apply for the 2021 cycle

 

[ognart]

Perfect! Thank you for your advice @Goro. Much appreciated. I will take a heavier load in the spring and take the MCAT this summer. I will apply to a few SMPs as a backup as well. I will keep you updated.

 

[mddoc]

Hi @Goro,


My back story:
I was a pre-med in college, tried to get into med school, had lower stats, did a DIY post-bacc for about 1.5 yrs and did relatively well. Took the MCAT over the years many times (long story, but at the time there was no lifetime limit and I was encouraged to take as many times until I got a good score), got really low scores. After that and other life things, I went into another a career for 10+ years.
I started studying again for the MCAT on and off starting in 2015, then in late 2017 started full-time studying for until late 2019. I got a 501 when I took it in Sept. 2019. I have taken 2 sci classes, Anatomy and Physiology I & II, got As in both.
I took the MCAT again this past summer, got a 502.
Current story:
I am a current applicant to medical school in TX. I applied after I took the MCAT in October and submitted/transmitted then.
My stats as of today (according to TMDSAS):
cGPA: 3.06
sGPA: 3.03
post-bacc GPA: 3.56

I have ~3000 hrs volunteer hours, ~2000 hrs of clinical experience as I worked at a Patient Care Assitant and Ophthalmic Assistant. I am currently a Patient Aide Assistant for a family member.

I a planning to retake 3 pre-req. classes which I received C- (Gen Chem I, Gen Bio I, Org. Chem I) in this upcoming Spring semester to further increase my gpas.

I know that my late applications have may have hurt, also my low MCAT scores, but I have worked to bring my gpa up with an upward trend. I am feeling kind of despondent b/c I don't know how this application cycle will work out and I have yet to ever receive an interview. In fact, I've never received an interview invite in all the times I've applied. I am ambivalent about taking the MCAT since I've taken it so many times, and even though the last MCAT is the highest I have ever scored, I am not sure of how to improve my score again. And I most recently have spent nearly 2 years studying for it, even with tutoring help I still only managed a 502.

So...what should I do next? My main question is, what do you think will take fore me to get an interview in TX? Thank you!

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro,


My back story:
I was a pre-med in college, tried to get into med school, had lower stats, did a DIY post-bacc for about 1.5 yrs and did relatively well. Took the MCAT over the years many times (long story, but at the time there was no lifetime limit and I was encouraged to take as many times until I got a good score), got really low scores. After that and other life things, I went into another a career for 10+ years.
I started studying again for the MCAT on and off starting in 2015, then in late 2017 started full-time studying for until late 2019. I got a 501 when I took it in Sept. 2019. I have taken 2 sci classes, Anatomy and Physiology I & II, got As in both.
I took the MCAT again this past summer, got a 502.
Current story:
I am a current applicant to medical school in TX. I applied after I took the MCAT in October and submitted/transmitted then.
My stats as of today (according to TMDSAS):
cGPA: 3.06
sGPA: 3.03
post-bacc GPA: 3.56

I have ~3000 hrs volunteer hours, ~2000 hrs of clinical experience as I worked at a Patient Care Assitant and Ophthalmic Assistant. I am currently a Patient Aide Assistant for a family member.

I a planning to retake 3 pre-req. classes which I received C- (Gen Chem I, Gen Bio I, Org. Chem I) in this upcoming Spring semester to further increase my gpas.

I know that my late applications have may have hurt, also my low MCAT scores, but I have worked to bring my gpa up with an upward trend. I am feeling kind of despondent b/c I don't know how this application cycle will work out and I have yet to ever receive an interview. In fact, I've never received an interview invite in all the times I've applied. I am ambivalent about taking the MCAT since I've taken it so many times, and even though the last MCAT is the highest I have ever scored, I am not sure of how to improve my score again. And I most recently have spent nearly 2 years studying for it, even with tutoring help I still only managed a 502.

So...what should I do next? My main question is, what do you think will take fore me to get an interview in TX? Thank you!

I think that you're DOA for TX MD schools, but you should be applying broadly to DO school, inside and outside of TX. Don't bother with retaking the MCAT; you've hit your plateau.

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro,

I’m a current junior trying to reinvent myself after a subpar freshmen year/summer and am looking to apply to schools either this summer or next, but I’m unsure if I’ve demonstrated adequate improvement in my grades to be able to apply in 2021. Just looking at my last two years, my GPAs average out to ~3.7 for both cGPA and sGPA, and that’s significantly dragged down by my orgo grades the summer before sophomore year. I have so many credits that another year of good grades would probably only bring my GPAs to ~3.6 overall, so that’s a lot of time and effort for a marginal increase. Should I wait until 2022 to apply so I can continue to improve my GPA? If I were to apply in 2021, what should my school list look like/what GPA do I use when deciding what schools to apply to? What if I applied in 2022 with another two semesters of 3.8-3.9 GPAs, what GPA would I use to decide what schools to apply to then? Thanks in advance for the help, details are below!

ORM
Undergrad: T20 school
Majors: Computational Biology and Finance, minor in Mathematics
MCAT: 521 (131/132/127/131)
Solid/kinda unique ECs but nothing too crazy (don't have thousands of hours in any category unlike some of the other applicants I see on here)

Here are my GPAs each year:
Freshman (35 credits total, 24 BCPM): cGPA 3.21, sGPA 3.08
Sophomore (44.5 credits total, 30 BCPM): cGPA 3.52, sGPA 3.36
Expected Junior (52 credits total, 40 BCPM): cGPA 3.83, sGPA 3.98
Total at time of app (131.5 credits total, 94 BCPM): cGPA 3.56, sGPA 3.55

When you're ready to apply, ask me for a list. I don't do hypotheticals.

 

[Goro]

Perhaps I could have phrased my question better. I'm not asking for an entire school list (I'll go to WAMC next spring for that); rather, I want to better understand how to interpret my GPA trend.

Apply as is your GPAs are of the last two years, not the entire cGPA.

 

[ndcpjf]

Hi @Goro, also looking for some thoughts.

Graduated in 2018 with a 2.9x sGPA, 3.2x cGPA w/ sGPA trend 2.3x->2.8x->3.1x->4.0 and cGPA trend 2.5x->3.0x->3.2x->3.8x. Since then I've taken 31 credits of Post-bacc @ 4.0 and my current sGPA is a 3.2 and cGPA a 3.3. My last 60 BCPM credits is 3.7 and my last 90 cumulative credits is a 3.8. Also scored a 514 on the MCAT. I have 2 questions.

1) Do you think this shows enough reinvention? Planning on applying both MD/DO and will ask about school list at the start of spring.
2) If I take 2 more courses it will push my sGPA into the 3.3 range and my cGPA into the 3.4 range. Do you think it's worth it to take those 2 courses or has my reinvention done enough?

Thank you!

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro, also looking for some thoughts.

Graduated in 2018 with a 2.9x sGPA, 3.2x cGPA w/ sGPA trend 2.3x->2.8x->3.1x->4.0 and cGPA trend 2.5x->3.0x->3.2x->3.8x. Since then I've taken 31 credits of Post-bacc @ 4.0 and my current sGPA is a 3.2 and cGPA a 3.3. My last 60 BCPM credits is 3.7 and my last 90 cumulative credits is a 3.8. Also scored a 514 on the MCAT. I have 2 questions.

1) Do you think this shows enough reinvention? Planning on applying both MD/DO and will ask about school list at the start of spring.
2) If I take 2 more courses it will push my sGPA into the 3.3 range and my cGPA into the 3.4 range. Do you think it's worth it to take those 2 courses or has my reinvention done enough?

Thank you!

Yup, you've done the deal!
I think that it's worth it to take the last two courses and get those GPA jumps.

 

[ndcpjf]

Yup, you've done the deal!
I think that it's worth it to take the last two courses and get those GPA jumps.

Thanks! That's what I was planning on doing. Was hoping you'd say no to those 2 classes so I could save a few bucks but I guess in the long-term it'll be a drop in the bucket. While I'm at it, here's my school list; any thoughts/schools to remove or add? Quick EC synopsis: D3 team-sport athlete, research + pubs, thousands of clinical hours in a technician role, 1000+ hours clinical volunteering, 100+ non-clinical volunteering, plenty of leadership, usual shadowing.

Miami
Albany
Tulane
Loyola
Rush (2000+ clinical hours w/ decent volunteering so figure I have a chance here)
Wayne State
Missouri (same state as undergrad)
SLU
UNLV (MAYBE - have ties)
UCSF
UC Riverside
UC Davis
UC Irvine
Drexel
IU (MAYBE)
CU Science of Medicine
Arizona (MAYBE)
Colorado(MAYBE)
Wake Forest
Tufts
TCU (MAYBE)
Medical College of Wisconsin
Eastern Virginia
Quinnipiac
Creighton
Cal North State (MAYBE)
Geisel
NOVA Southeastern Allopathic
NYMC
Jefferson
Hackensack Meridian/Seton Hall

DO:
Western University Pomona
(CCOM) (MAYBE)
PECOM
LECOM
CHSUCOM
AZCOM

 

[Goro]

I take it that you're form CA?

I suggest:

Miami
Albany
Tulane
Loyola
Rush
Wayne State
Missouri (same state as undergrad) MAYBE
SLU
UNLV (MAYBE - have ties) What exactly are these ties???
UCSF
UC Riverside (only if you're from the Inland Empire)
UC Davis
UC Irvine
Drexel
Wake Forest
Tufts
TCU (MAYBE)
Medical College of Wisconsin
Eastern Virginia
Quinnipiac
Creighton
Geisel
NOVA Southeastern Allopathic
NYMC
Jefferson
Hackensack Meridian/Seton Hall

ADD: Hofstra, GWU, Gtown, Mayo (yes, Mayo), Emory

DO:
Western University Pomona (ADD OR)

(CCOM) (MAYBE)
PCOM
LECOM
AZCOM

ADD: KCU, TUNCOM, Touro-CA, DMU, MUCOM, CUSOM, NYITCOM, KCOM

 

[ndcpjf]

ADD: Hofstra, GWU, Gtown, Mayo (yes, Mayo), Emory


ADD: KCU, TUNCOM, Touro-CA, DMU, MUCOM, CUSOM, NYITCOM, KCOM

Thanks for the suggestions! And yes, from CA. I went to school out of state but returned after graduation.

 

[MarE2Med]

Hi Goro
Wanted to check back here and see how my progress has been.
The following image was taken from the GPA calculator found on r/premed

I’ve aced the last 30 hours worth of classes. Have I done enough? I’m Currently planning on taking 15 hours more, because I don’t have anything else to do, and apply in May.

Have a 518 MCAT and a veteran of the marine corps. I’ve been told by a few sources that being a vet can help my chances but IDK how much stock I should put in that?

 

[Calizboosted76]

Hi Goro
Wanted to check back here and see how my progress has been.
The following image was taken from the GPA calculator found on r/premed

I’ve aced the last 30 hours worth of classes. Have I done enough? I’m Currently planning on taking 15 hours more, because I don’t have anything else to do, and apply in May.

Have a 518 MCAT and a veteran of the marine corps. I’ve been told by a few sources that being a vet can help my chances but IDK how much stock I should put in that?

View attachment 325435

Im not Goro, but I am a fellow reinvention applicant. You have done a great job and an awesome MCAT.
Thank you for your service as well.

 

[Goro]

Im not Goro, but I am a fellow reinvention applicant. You have done a great job and an awesome MCAT.
Thank you for your service as well.

Ditto this!!!! You will be ready to apply in this coming cycle

Semper Fi!!!

 

[MarE2Med]

Thank you Calizboosted76 and Goro. It’s been a long and emotional roller coaster getting to this point.
One thing that constantly, CONSTANTLY comes to my mind is that if I’d just tried hard enough to get Bs or Cs in the classes that I got Fs in I would be in such a better place right now. Hindsight is a B-word.

Goro, do you mind hitting me up with a school list?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thank you Calizboosted76 and Goro. It’s been a long and emotional roller coaster getting to this point.
One thing that constantly, CONSTANTLY comes to my mind is that if I’d just tried hard enough to get Bs or Cs in the classes that I got Fs in I would be in such a better place right now. Hindsight is a B-word.

Goro, do you mind hitting me up with a school list?

You'll be fine. Mine was worse than that, and your ultimate GPA is only a little under what mine was.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Thank you Calizboosted76 and Goro. It’s been a long and emotional roller coaster getting to this point.
One thing that constantly, CONSTANTLY comes to my mind is that if I’d just tried hard enough to get Bs or Cs in the classes that I got Fs in I would be in such a better place right now. Hindsight is a B-word.

Goro, do you mind hitting me up with a school list?

No problem! I know the struggle all to well. It does no good looking in the past at the grades you "could have" gotten to have made your journey easier. You have done very well.

Edit: Before gaining an acceptance I did the same thing (looking back and beating myself up because of how poorly I did). Now that I have an acceptance I realize that I went through all of these "trials" for a reason. I am way more mature now than I was before. haha. Good luck!

 

[MarE2Med]

No problem! I know the struggle all to well. It does no good looking in the past at the grades you "could have" gotten to have made your journey easier. You have done very well.

Edit: Before gaining an acceptance I did the same thing (looking back and beating myself up because of how poorly I did). Now that I have an acceptance I realize that I went through all of these "trials" for a reason. I am way more mature now than I was before. haha. Good luck!

Thanks! I‘ve started to feel this way. It’s weird because I used to think that the military prepared me for anything but it didn’t prepare me for my own ego and work ethic.

Very happy for you on the acceptance!

 

[Calizboosted76]

Thanks! I‘ve started to feel this way. It’s weird because I used to think that the military prepared me for anything but it didn’t prepare me for my own ego and work ethic.

Very happy for you on the acceptance!

Appreciate that! Like you know, it is a long road. You will get there!
A piece of advice I was given was, "If this is the career you know you want to do, bust your ass and make it happen. The time is going to pass any way you look at it."

 

[Calizboosted76]

@MarE2Med AMAZING!! It's so inspiring to go on these forums and see people like you... rock on

I used the same GPA calc as MarE2Med, and you can see my stats below... do y'all think I should do a post-bacc? I have a decent upward trend, but obv a 3.9+ for 24 units could never hurt... only thing is I have a lot of catching up to do on the volunteering side of things.

A little bit about me: URM (Mexican, fluent), no MCAT (plan to take after first gap year), UCLA/UC Berkeley, 1000 hrs+ research (addictions/children), 0 hrs clinical experience (gonna be scribing @ the VA in Jan tho), 25 hrs non-clinical volunteering; Residency: Florida. I still have a lot of work to do becoming engaged w my community, which is why I'm not sure if I should continue the academic grind as well... appreciate your input <3

Cumulative GPA	3.42
AMCAS sGPA	3.34
AACOMAS sGPA	3.34

	QP	Sem. Hours	GPA	cum GPA
Freshman	67.4	22	3.064	3.064
Sophomore	106.2	31	3.426	3.275
Junior	83	24	3.458	3.332
Senior	88.7	24	3.696	3.419
Post-bacc	0	0

	QP	Sem. Hours	sGPA	cum sGPA
Freshman	32.3	11	2.936	2.936
Sophomore	62.2	19	3.274	3.150
Junior	35.6	10	3.560	3.253
Senior	53.6	15	3.573	3.340
Post-bacc	0	0

I cant comment because this is close territory and you don't have an MCAT. Your upward trend isn't super impressive (not being rude, I reread this ten times and it just sounded rude to me). I think @Goro would be better to advise.

 

[elevatormusic]

I cant comment because this is close territory and you don't have an MCAT. Your upward trend isn't super impressive (not being rude, I reread this ten times and it just sounded rude to me). I think @Goro would be better to advise.

Not rude, it's honest -- I appreciate the feedback

 

[Calizboosted76]

Not rude, it's honest -- I appreciate the feedback

With that being said, Im not sure you actually need a Post bacc. Your GPA isn't terrible for DO.

 

[MarE2Med]

Yeah I agree with what Calizboosted said. I think you’d be okay for DO.
What I’ve been told in the past is to come back once I’d taken the MCAT and the pros on here will be able to give you a better sitrep.

 

[Goro]

Thank you Calizboosted76 and Goro. It’s been a long and emotional roller coaster getting to this point.
One thing that constantly, CONSTANTLY comes to my mind is that if I’d just tried hard enough to get Bs or Cs in the classes that I got Fs in I would be in such a better place right now. Hindsight is a B-word.

Goro, do you mind hitting me up with a school list?

Pm me

 

[Goro]

@MarE2Med AMAZING!! It's so inspiring to go on these forums and see people like you... rock on

I used the same GPA calc as MarE2Med, and you can see my stats below... do y'all think I should do a post-bacc? I have a decent upward trend, but obv a 3.9+ for 24 units could never hurt... only thing is I have a lot of catching up to do on the volunteering side of things.

A little bit about me: URM (Mexican, fluent), no MCAT (plan to take after first gap year), UCLA/UC Berkeley, 1000 hrs+ research (addictions/children), 0 hrs clinical experience (gonna be scribing @ the VA in Jan tho), 25 hrs non-clinical volunteering; Residency: Florida. I still have a lot of work to do becoming engaged w my community, which is why I'm not sure if I should continue the academic grind as well... appreciate your input <3

Cumulative GPA	3.42
AMCAS sGPA	3.34
AACOMAS sGPA	3.34

	QP	Sem. Hours	GPA	cum GPA
Freshman	67.4	22	3.064	3.064
Sophomore	106.2	31	3.426	3.275
Junior	83	24	3.458	3.332
Senior	88.7	24	3.696	3.419
Post-bacc	0	0

	QP	Sem. Hours	sGPA	cum sGPA
Freshman	32.3	11	2.936	2.936
Sophomore	62.2	19	3.274	3.150
Junior	35.6	10	3.560	3.253
Senior	53.6	15	3.573	3.340
Post-bacc	0	0

As a URM, you don't need a postbac or SMP

 

[ognart]

Hi @Goro,

A new poster here, but I needed some advice on what to do and your advice is much appreciated. I am trying to decide what I should do next semester as well as next fall.

I am a NV resident going to UNLV as a DIY postbacc student trying to get into DO school or potentially NV state MD programs. As you have probably guessed, I am trying to reinvent myself by taking more upper division science classes. My undergraduate overall GPA wasn't too great: cGPA: 2.98; sGPA: 2.66. So far in the postbacc, I have taken 24 credits: ≈ 3.9 sGPA.

Human Anatomy: A
Anatomy lab: A
Immunology: A
Microbiology: A
Neurobiology: A
Adv Biochem: A
Mol Genetics: A
Pathogenesis: B+

Spring 21 semester:

Histology
Genetics: human disease

With these new grades, I will have an overall cGPA of 3.1 and sGPA of 2.98 (potentially 3.05 sGPA after spring semester taking 7 credits). I am planning on taking more science classes in the spring, but I have a dilemma. Should I take a smaller course load and study for the May MCAT (and maybe apply to a couple DO schools in June) or should I forget about the May MCAT and focus more on 3 or 4 classes and take it during the summer instead? I am wanting to apply to SMP programs for the fall as well. I think it might be a better option rather than staying at UNLV taking more undergraduate biology classes? You think this is the right move? I know they are expensive, but its definitely worth it in the end and I am willing to do this. I am planning on applying to these SMP programs:

AZCOM
RVU (St George or Colorado location)
TUNCOM
VCOM
CSU Colorado
KCU
(maybe a few others including UNRs post bacc)

Volunteer work ≈ 800 hours caregiving
Shadowing experience ≈ 150 hours
Community service at homeless shelter ≈ 100 hours
(I want to get more hours in, but covid is preventing me from doing so)

One more thing: I was actually interested in dental school last year and took the DAT, but then decided I really do not want dental school. I received a 19AA. My point being is that most SMPs require the MCAT or DAT score to apply. I want to apply earlier than May, so could I actually use my DAT score to apply to SMPs in December even though I want DO (and take MCAT later)? Thanks Goro!

Hey @Goro, I hope this isn't a bad question, but I am having trouble picking out classes for the spring semester. There aren't many options at my school (since I have taken most already) and I want to make sure to take the best ones possible before I apply. I am in my early 30's and I have not taken physics (my weakest subject) in over 15 years. I received a B and a C in my 2 semesters (not too good) but decent. Would you recommend me retaking physics after so many years (for MCAT help alone) or should I only look at upper division biology courses? I want to take 3 classes while I study a bit for the June/July MCAT (as you recommended). Out of the classes listed, which 3 would you recommend (that would look good to adcoms) while studying for the MCAT?

Physics
Ecology
Biogeography
Molecular Biotechnology
Microbial Physiology
Genetics of Human Disease
Mammalian physiology
(not teaching human physio unfortunately)

Thanks for all your help and its much appreciated!

 

[Doctoscope]

Hey @Goro, I hope this isn't a bad question, but I am having trouble picking out classes for the spring semester. There aren't many options at my school (since I have taken most already) and I want to make sure to take the best ones possible before I apply. I am in my early 30's and I have not taken physics in over 15 years. I received a B and a C in my 2 semesters (not too good) but decent. Would you recommend me retaking physics after so long (for MCAT help alone) or should I only look at upper division biology courses? I want to take 3 classes while I study a bit for the June/July MCAT (as you recommended). Out of the classes listed, which 3 would you recommend (that would look good to adcoms) while studying for the MCAT?

Physics
Ecology
Biogeography
Molecular Biotechnology
Microbial Physiology
Genetics of Human Disease
Mammalian physiology
(not teaching human physio unfortunately)

Thanks for all your help and its much appreciated!

If you’re in the CA area, or if you don’t mind online classes, UCLA Extension is offering cell bio this coming winter quarter, and a bunch more upper divs in the Spring quarter. That could be an option if you’re in need of units.

 

[ognart]

@DoctoOcto thank you for the suggestion, but I actually live in NV going to UNLV and would prefer taking classes here. I have taken cell physiology already, but I will still look into UCLA ext classes to see what they have to offer. You never know though, it could be an option! Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro, I hope this isn't a bad question, but I am having trouble picking out classes for the spring semester. There aren't many options at my school (since I have taken most already) and I want to make sure to take the best ones possible before I apply. I am in my early 30's and I have not taken physics (my weakest subject) in over 15 years. I received a B and a C in my 2 semesters (not too good) but decent. Would you recommend me retaking physics after so many years (for MCAT help alone) or should I only look at upper division biology courses? I want to take 3 classes while I study a bit for the June/July MCAT (as you recommended). Out of the classes listed, which 3 would you recommend (that would look good to adcoms) while studying for the MCAT?

Physics
Ecology
Biogeography
Molecular Biotechnology
Microbial Physiology
Genetics of Human Disease
Mammalian physiology
(not teaching human physio unfortunately)

Thanks for all your help and its much appreciated!

Retaking classes to help with knowledge decay is fine. Many med schools have expiration dates on pre-reqs anyway.

I like these:

Physics
Microbial Physiology
Genetics of Human Disease
Mammalian physiology

 

[ognart]

Sounds good, thanks again for the help @Goro! I will most likely take physics, microbial physio, and mammalian physio

 

[AnotherCatProfile]

Oh Goro, I seek thee wisdom. I've been using this thread as my bible the last few years. But, after a (presumably) failed cycle, I'm looking for a bit of advice on where to go from here.

Background: Straight B/C student (+2 W's) for the first 5 semesters of university. Slapped myself. Did another 5 packed semesters maintaining mostly A's (and no more C's). Took the MCAT and made a 515. Did an SMP and made a 4.0. [undergrad cGPA/sGPA = 3.46/3.26]. Tunnel-visioned on remediating my grades and only racked up ~200 hours of volunteering (mostly cookie cutter stuff, with half being clinical) and 50 hours of shadowing. On the flip side I had 1000+ hours of research (part of my undergrad degree).

I'm a Texas resident and applied to all the TMDSAS schools with the above, while finishing a bonus research year at my SMP school. Radio silence so far. Would I be correct in assuming my lack of EC's, especially clinical hours, tanked my application?

My current plan is to spend a year scribing (full time if I can) while continuing with some community volunteering/shadowing. After that I'll apply TMDSAS again for 2022-2023 (I'll be limited to the Texas schools mostly, because my MCAT is from 2018). Does this sound like an okay plan? Will hundreds of clinical hours over a year fix my app? Will a 26-year-old with a masters come off weird for scribing? Should I risk an MCAT retake in order to apply more broadly to DO & OOS schools next time around? The research year I'm completing now will also let me add a couple TA-ing experiences, a pub or two, and some new/stronger letters from med school faculty to my re-app.

Sorry for the wall of text. Really appreciate any advice/stories/musings/tough love from anyone hanging around this thread.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Oh Goro, I seek thee wisdom. I've been using this thread as my bible the last few years. But, after a (presumably) failed cycle, I'm looking for a bit of advice on where to go from here.

Background: Straight B/C student (+2 W's) for the first 5 semesters of university. Slapped myself. Did another 5 packed semesters maintaining mostly A's (and no more C's). Took the MCAT and made a 515. Did an SMP and made a 4.0. [undergrad cGPA/sGPA = 3.46/3.26]. Tunnel-visioned on remediating my grades and only racked up ~200 hours of volunteering (mostly cookie cutter stuff, with half being clinical) and 50 hours of shadowing. On the flip side I had 1000+ hours of research (part of my undergrad degree).

I'm a Texas resident and applied to all the TMDSAS schools with the above, while finishing a bonus research year at my SMP school. Radio silence so far. Would I be correct in assuming my lack of EC's, especially clinical hours, tanked my application?

My current plan is to spend a year scribing (full time if I can) while continuing with some community volunteering/shadowing. After that I'll apply TMDSAS again for 2022-2023 (I'll be limited to the Texas schools mostly, because my MCAT is from 2018). Does this sound like an okay plan? Will hundreds of clinical hours over a year fix my app? Will a 26-year-old with a masters come off weird for scribing? Should I risk an MCAT retake in order to apply more broadly to DO & OOS schools next time around? The research year I'm completing now will also let me add a couple TA-ing experiences, a pub or two, and some new/stronger letters from med school faculty to my re-app.

Sorry for the wall of text. Really appreciate any advice/stories/musings/tough love from anyone hanging around this thread.

Absolutely do not retake the MCAT.

What other schools did you apply to aside from TMDAS?

Edit: Unless it expires.

 

[AnotherCatProfile]

Absolutely do not retake the MCAT.

What other schools did you apply to aside from TMDAS?

Edit: Unless it expires.

Unfortunately, only TMDSAS this cycle - leaving Texas isn't an option for me for the next 2 years-ish. I know applying broadly would be a big boost, and I'm open to that for the next try, but my poor old MCAT

Edit: Congrats on your recent success

 

[Calizboosted76]

Unfortunately, only TMDSAS this cycle - leaving Texas isn't an option for me for the next 2 years-ish. I know applying broadly would be a big boost, and I'm open to that for the next try, but my poor old MCAT

Edit: Congrats on your recent success

Yea that was my next snippet of advice was to apply super broadly!
Thank you! I am sure you will have great luck as well!

 

[Goro]

Oh Goro, I seek thee wisdom. I've been using this thread as my bible the last few years. But, after a (presumably) failed cycle, I'm looking for a bit of advice on where to go from here.

Background: Straight B/C student (+2 W's) for the first 5 semesters of university. Slapped myself. Did another 5 packed semesters maintaining mostly A's (and no more C's). Took the MCAT and made a 515. Did an SMP and made a 4.0. [undergrad cGPA/sGPA = 3.46/3.26]. Tunnel-visioned on remediating my grades and only racked up ~200 hours of volunteering (mostly cookie cutter stuff, with half being clinical) and 50 hours of shadowing. On the flip side I had 1000+ hours of research (part of my undergrad degree).

I'm a Texas resident and applied to all the TMDSAS schools with the above, while finishing a bonus research year at my SMP school. Radio silence so far. Would I be correct in assuming my lack of EC's, especially clinical hours, tanked my application?

My current plan is to spend a year scribing (full time if I can) while continuing with some community volunteering/shadowing. After that I'll apply TMDSAS again for 2022-2023 (I'll be limited to the Texas schools mostly, because my MCAT is from 2018). Does this sound like an okay plan? Will hundreds of clinical hours over a year fix my app? Will a 26-year-old with a masters come off weird for scribing? Should I risk an MCAT retake in order to apply more broadly to DO & OOS schools next time around? The research year I'm completing now will also let me add a couple TA-ing experiences, a pub or two, and some new/stronger letters from med school faculty to my re-app.

Sorry for the wall of text. Really appreciate any advice/stories/musings/tough love from anyone hanging around this thread.

Rewrite all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them

Have DO schools on your list.

Get in service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Get in more clinical exposure.

Do NOT retake the MCAT

 

[Futuredoc1997199]

What is your experience with students who get accepted following academic suspension? How do you think adcoms would react considering this trend?

I failed out college twice. Went to highly ranked SMP. I have 3 DO acceptances, 2 MD interviews I’m waiting to hear back from, and my cycle is going very well.

 

[AnotherCatProfile]

Rewrite all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them

Have DO schools on your list.

Get in service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Get in more clinical exposure.

Do NOT retake the MCAT

Thank you Goro! Sounds like the plan. Hearing it from you takes my neuroticism down a notch.

 

[11BtoMD]

[mention]Goro [/mention] or anyone else. Would previously being stationed in a state where I am applying be enough of a reason to show ties to the state. For example Fort Carson made me fall in love with Colorado and I want to go to CU. Or my time in Tennessee makes me want to stay there forever and attend Vandy? Like does is make a difference?

 

[Calizboosted76]

[mention]Goro [/mention] or anyone else. Would previously being stationed in a state where I am applying be enough of a reason to show ties to the state. For example Fort Carson made me fall in love with Colorado and I want to go to CU. Or my time in Tennessee makes me want to stay there forever and attend Vandy? Like does is make a difference?

No one can really decide or tell you why you have ties to a state. Some schools want to know if you have family in the area or aspects as such. However if you were stationed somewhere and fell in love with the area I fee that would warrant a decent “tie” to that area.

 

[11BtoMD]

Yea I’m just wondering if that would be enough to overcome some OOS bias that some programs have.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yea I’m just wondering if that would be enough to overcome some OOS bias that some programs have.

And the answer is, there is no way to know unless you try! The good news is that schools tend to love ex-military. The bad news is that schools that really care about "strong ties" are typically looking for more than "I used to live there for a few years and really liked it."

Military might be an exception since you typically don't control where you are stationed. On the other hand, if you didn't grow up there and don't have close family there, being stationed there for a few years might not be enough. Did you love it so much that you made it your domicile, changed your driver's license and voter registration, paid state taxes, etc.? Most people don't as they are moving around constantly while serving, and that makes it hard to establish "strong ties" after the fact in order to gain an admission advantage, or to overcome a bias.

Again, you won't know unless you give it a shot. Depending on the rest of your app, you might be able to overcome the bias anyway.

 

[Goro]

[mention]Goro [/mention] or anyone else. Would previously being stationed in a state where I am applying be enough of a reason to show ties to the state. For example Fort Carson made me fall in love with Colorado and I want to go to CU. Or my time in Tennessee makes me want to stay there forever and attend Vandy? Like does is make a difference?

Private schools, with the exception of a tiny few, don't care that much about residency.

But you have a good answer for "Why us?" For TN, you're better off with East TN/Quillian

 

[premed4ever]

@Goro If you saw an application that had two medical withdrawals in one year, what would you want to see after?

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro,

First of all, I want to thank you for all the advice that you have given out on this thread.

I am a career changer, and I have been in the process of reinventing myself for the past year. After finishing undergrad, I worked as an engineer in a manufacturing plant for a little over a year. At the beginning of 2020, I quit my job and moved back home and began taking classes full-time.

My Profile
ORM, current NV resident
undergrad Major: Chemical Engineering
MCAT: 519 - August 2020
uGPA: 2.97, uSGPA: 2.8 (did poorly in a lot of math classes) - senior year GPA was 3.3 so slight upward trend
After next semester, cGPA: ~3.3, sGPA: 3.5, no math sGPA 3.65

Spring 2020:
Physics II: A
Intro bio II: A
Intro psych: A
Gen Chem II: A
Biochem I: A

Fall 2020:
Biochem II: A-
Cell Phys: A
Biomath: A
Molecular Genetics: A

Spring 2021:
Anatomy
Histology
Genetics of human disease
Neurobiology
Biopsych

ECs:

Volunteering
Meals on Wheels during Covid ≈ 80 hours
Community service at local YMCA ≈ 60 hours

Shadowing experience ≈ 50 hours (currently trying to get more with a local FM doc)

Research
400+ hours in Environmental Engineering lab - no pubs

Work
2000+ hours as an engineer/project manager

Gap year plan
Work as an EMT either in an ambulance or at a casino.

Current School List:
Touro-NV
PNWU
Western
Rocky Vista
Burrell
UNLV
UNR
Rutgers
Wayne State
CSU

Questions:

-Is it worth applying late in the 2020 cycle to a few DO schools? (or could this hurt my chances at these schools next cycle)

-Assuming my gap year plan plays out, would that be solid enough for clinical contact hours?

-It seems that a lot of the MD schools that are receptive to reinventors are also very service-oriented. Due to my volunteering experiences being a weak point in my app, would your recommended MD school list for me be different than what you often post on here.

Thanks for all of your help!

Rutgers is a donation.

I too late in the game for more apps

 

[Goro]

@Goro If you saw an application that had two medical withdrawals in one year, what would you want to see after?

No more withdrawals.

 

[KnightDoc]

I have a question about reinvention and grades @Goro -

Which transcript would be seen as better in your eyes, assuming equal overall GPAs? Someone who had a dismal few semesters at the beginning of school and snapped out of it and ended up with excellent grades for the rest of undergrad, or someone who consistently received good (but not excellent) grades? I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both, so I'm curious. I had a pretty rough few semesters at the beginning of school (tons of medical Ws, failed intro bio...yikes) but have had a very very solid upward trend and will hopefully finish undergrad somewhere around a 3.65. I am wondering about that vs someone who has gotten a 3.6-3.7 overall every semester. Pretty sure I know the answer - someone in my position would be seen as a bigger risk and therefore would be at a disadvantage - but wanted to ask to see the perspective of an adcom.

Thanks!!

Not @Goro, but I think you would actually be at an advantage, having overcome obstacles the other person didn't, and having demonstrated a higher upside (greater potential). Either way, 3.65 is plenty good for US MD, and some adcoms have said that with such a steep upward trend, you would be viewed as your later GPAs, not your cumulative, so, congratulations!!!!!!

 

[Goro]

I have a question about reinvention and grades @Goro -

Which transcript would be seen as better in your eyes, assuming equal overall GPAs? Someone who had a dismal few semesters at the beginning of school and snapped out of it and ended up with excellent grades for the rest of undergrad, or someone who consistently received good (but not excellent) grades? I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both, so I'm curious. I had a pretty rough few semesters at the beginning of school (tons of medical Ws, failed intro bio...yikes) but have had a very very solid upward trend and will hopefully finish undergrad somewhere around a 3.65. I am wondering about that vs someone who has gotten a 3.6-3.7 overall every semester. Pretty sure I know the answer - someone in my position would be seen as a bigger risk and therefore would be at a disadvantage - but wanted to ask to see the perspective of an adcom.

Thanks!!

They're both fine; this is not an either/or competition. But my notion is that we Americans like come-from-behind stories. It's in our DNA.

So, the truthful answer to your question is that both candidates will get IIs.

The bolded is some very poor logic. We all know that not everyone is ready for college at age 18 (I sure wasn't!) The rising GPA trend proves that the person is no longer a risk. This is why some medical schools (like Wayne State) weight the latter years more that the entire GPA.

AND this is why many med schools (even Columbia, UCSF, Mayo, Pitt, Duke, and Vandy) reward reinvention.

 

[KnightDoc]

Premed advisors will really just crush your dreams for no reason

Not no reason.

Reason #1 is that they are relatively low paying jobs, and they don't always attract the best and the brightest. The people running the prehealth advising offices tend to really know what they are doing, but it's really difficult to get access to them. The rest of the "advisors" are hit or miss. Some are really into it and become really good at it. Others are just doing it until something better comes along.

Reason #2 -- other than at the tippy top schools, schools are very sensitive to their med school acceptance rates. Tippy top schools have great acceptance rates anyway because they have lots of great candidates, so they are less inclined to actively manage who applies and who doesn't. If you don't attend one of those schools (T10-20), every marginal candidate an advising office can discourage is one less person they need to worry about messing up their stats later. It's selfish and it does people like you a tremendous disservice, but it's a fact of life. Straight As from freshman year on is easy. Your situation is more nuanced, and the path of least resistance for less well informed pencil pushers is to steer candidates like you away.

 

[Goro]

Makes sense. I think I have it in my head that med schools expect absolute perfection from day 1... I've been told multiple times by my premed advisor that despite my strong upward trend, my first few semesters would completely prevent me from ever gaining admission to a US medical school because "no med school would ever take a student who couldn't hack it in intro bio the first time and almost left school". Figured she knew what she was talking about since that's .... her entire job .... but have since learned that is, in fact, not the case at all (this thread is full of people who have rebounded from so many things and reinvented themselves, so a lot of the time it is possible!!). My question was more "am I at a big disadvantage because I messed up when I was 16 but then got my s*** together in comparison to all of these applicants who have been more consistent and never screwed up like that" and it seems the answer is no, I am not, which is awesome! Plus I'm planning on taking several gap years because I know I'm not ready for medical school yet so those struggles will be far in the past by then. Premed advisors will really just crush your dreams for no reason

I appreciate your help!!

Your advisor is data point #577423432999 that most of them are idiots.

And no, med schools do not demand perfection.