Help Me Decide! DMU, KCUMB or CCOM?

[AutumnChild]

So these are my top three choices and I'm trying to figure out which to put my deposit on by the Dec. 14/15th deadline. I've been trying to narrow it down for the past few weeks and I still haven't been able to . Mainly because I haven't heard from any current KCUMB students yet (in response to some questions I asked over e-mail). So in addition to getting current student opinions through e-mail, I was thinking I could get some on here as well and also get some opinions from fellow applicants. Maybe this will also help others trying to make a decision too!

So, which should I put my money on?

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[mmikey]

So these are my top three choices and I'm trying to figure out which to put my deposit on by the Dec. 14/15th deadline. I've been trying to narrow it down for the past few weeks and I still haven't been able to . Mainly because I haven't heard from any current KCUMB students yet (in response to some questions I asked over e-mail). So in addition to getting current student opinions through e-mail, I was thinking I could get some on here as well and also get some opinions from fellow applicants. Maybe this will also help others trying to make a decision too!

So, which should I put my money on?

Having acceptances at KCUMB and DMU I understand your situation. I don't know much about CCOM. First thing to think about is location, which one do you like better? Then think about the program, graduate and pass data, match etc. Then think about how you felt during the day. All else being equal reread the pamphlets they gave you and go with what feels right.

 

[DbDan]

For me the choice would be an easy one; CCOM. Thats just me though having lived in big city high population areas all my life. CCOMs rotations seem second to none and they are so well established and known I would have loved to have had the opportunity there. Sadly though, its my one DO rejection thus far.

 

[DoctorJDO]

Pros: DMU: Medical school
CCOM: Medical school
KCUMB: Medical school
Tuition (Directly from websites)
DMU: $37600
CCOM: $49000
KCUMB: $41000

hmmmm....


edit: We had the same interview at DMU. You talked about being from the chicago area a lot, and mentioned CCOM a few times. it sounds like you would be happy there. ccom might help you stay in the area, but look at DMU's match list (it's from 2009 but I'm just proving a point):
http://www.dmu.edu/com/do/strengths/resmatch_list/2009state.cfm
plenty of people match to residencies in chicago. I'm sure that goes for KCUMB also.

maybe people from NSU, for example, don't match in the chicago area often, but think who goes to NSU...about half the class are people from FL who want to stay in the area. so why would they apply to residencies in chicago if they want to be in FL? Of course nobody is going to match in chicago.

for that same reason, of course people from chicago who want to stay in the area will go to CCOM, and then want to get a residency there. so naturally more people match where more people apply, and CCOM's match lists are going to be full of people staying in chicago.

my point is that just because a lot of people do residencies in a certain location, doesn't mean it will be "easier" for you or anyone else, it could just be that more people apply there. at many schools, including DMU, you have free rotations, that can be done ANYWHERE, not just at their affiliated sites. so you could get some face-time in a chicago roation even if you don't go to school in the area.

hell...I did a search for AZCOM and they had someone do a residency in chicago...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...100745,-88.286133&spn=11.124826,23.225098&z=6

you can do a residency anywhere. CCOM might make it a little easier, but if you are a good student, do well, and get some face time, you can get do your residency where you want.

 

[Aspiring1]

Pros: DMU- surgical lab, strong international program/global health - predetermined sites so you don't have to worry about the details
CCOM - Rotations close by, no need to relocate, Larger campus than DMU (both new however) Location is conveniently close to places of interest (30min to 2-3 hr drive)

Cons: DMU - small campus. really small library - seems like everything happens in ONE building?! Location-landlocked by corn!
CCOM- Loosely organized international programs done mostly through individual connections, higher cost of living near the city, no surgical lab? Oh, more diversity in student body/community.

I think DMU is very well aware of it's short comings and that is why they try so hard and prepare so well to convince interviewers. I wish CCOM would have tried harder or showed us more about the school than just a superficial tour/talk by the dean.

 

[Aspiring1]

oops, meant to up diversity as a pro for CCOM - sorry.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

As I think all 3 are excellent programs, I would really say between the three locations, determine where you would be happy:
KCUMB -- urban
CCOM -- suburban
DMU -- rural (I believe?)

I interviewed at KCUMB and CCOM, and KCUMB won hands down for me as the DO school I would attend. I very much enjoy urban campuses. The students also seemed happier there and I really liked their curriculum set up (genesis) more than CCOM's traditional program. CCOM's campus was additionally too suburban for me with it's mansion-surrounded neighborhood and it's gated community campus and their locked doors everywhere (what are they so afraid of?)... so I wouldn't have even been happy learning in that type of environment... but people seem to really like CCOM and it's clinical rotations might be alot better (though I didn't like that you would be changing locations every month or two... where KCUMB you had one location for the entire year... so that's another factor to keep in mind.)

 

[sideways]

I wouldn't touch KCUMB with your ****... the following is just a sampling. A little research on here reveals scores more dirt on KCUMB. I would tread cautiously if I were you.

So I guess no one can write one for KCUMB?

We cant. They are listening/watching you.

Is that a joke? Do they monitor SDN or something?

Yup.



It's no joke, bub. The administration/student affairs office is "big brother" and they wield "professionalism" as their hammer.

Anyway, here's something to chew on:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8161159&postcount=43

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8164200&postcount=55

...
Administration: Honestly, I think this is a big problem. The bottom line is money, and that's fine if you're getting what you pay for. There was a very paternalistic attitude towards the students, and this I think is secondary to ensuring the KCUMB brand is not tarnished so the tuition money will keep coming in.

...

Clinical Rotations: People, people, people. This is what matters the most, regardless of what medical school you go to. There are many sites, scattered all over the country, as well as in Kansas City. They are hit and miss. Preceptors are not paid (when they are disgruntled enough with the school, you, or your peers, they will tell you this). This school places your education in the hands of your preceptor. Your education is at the discretion of your preceptor. Why? Because they volunteer to do this for CME. They are not paid faculty. This matters, because this is where you learn medicine. (There are a few in Kansas City that work for the school, but the majority are adjunct faculty which means you may have some trouble if you want to go to a program that wants letter of recommendation from full-time faculty that know you.) This is where you learn to make life and death decisions. In other words, this is where you learn to be a doctor. Now, some preceptors are great, and others are not so great. With such a large class, some are bound to have not so great preceptors. This is an awful lot of money to pay for a gamble. Worst case scenario: you realize that you got a poor clinical education in your third year and spend your fourth year making up the deficit during elective time. Now that I am a resident, I realized that this is a flawed system because you don't know what you're getting, and medicine is learned on the wards, period. My third year medical students are way ahead of the ball compared to where I was when I was in their place. During the 4th year, we had to do ER, cardio, and rural/underserved medicine at a core site; it may have changed since then. Don't be fooled by the nice campus, because this is not where you learn medicine-the hospital is.

...

I don't have much to add, allopurinol, except to say that my class may have had similar experiences, perhaps to an even greater extent in some cases. I won't and probably can't say more since I am still in attendance at the school.

The only other thing I think I will add is to advise people looking at schools to look beyond your initial experiences from the interview, because it can be tweaked. I'm saying this as general advice. Some schools focus on marketing more than others and are good at impression-management. For example, a very pretty wrapper for a candy might make you think that the candy is particularly sweet or tasty. Open the wrapper and take a look at what you are going to be getting. Look for VALUE.

Also, a lot of docs seem to take advantage of KCUMB's need for preceptors. I am not sure, someone else would have to say, but I believe the school either pays its preceptors or those docs get CME credit. Anyway, I had several "preceptors" who seemed to be doing it for the benefits, because they didn't make any attempt to teach, they treated me like a burden, they didn't give me any responsibility, and they gave me subpar reviews despite my performance being equal to other months where I got great evaluations.

What I'm trying to say is, if you attend KCUMB and stay in town for rotations, they're real hit or miss. And the school doesn't seem to get rid of docs known for being poor preceptors; I've heard of some receiving multiple complaints from students this past year yet still get students this coming year.

 

[AutumnChild]

@DoctorJDO - Did I talk a lot about being from Chicago? haha, I don't even remember. Though, I think I remember you But yes, as of right now I would like to end up in Chicago for residency and CCOM would seem to be the best choice. However, for some reason it didn't jump out to me as I was hoping it would. Though, the more I think about it, the more I am open to being somewhere else for residency depending where life takes me, lol.

@sideways - thanks so much for directing me to that thread! I actually didn't much care for KCUMB initially during my interview day, but as the day progressed the school grew on me. It might be the work of the admin and student ambassadors though because I found it odd that no other students tried to interact with us that day, I mean like NONE. Whereas compared to other schools, random students in the hallway or on campus would come up and say hi and chat. I've also been trying to get in touch with a student at KCUMB but they don't give out a list of student contacts and I get the feeling that they do that so they can choose who you talk too - big brother style i guess...lol

Some ramblings about DMU - I actually had a good feeling about DMU, I liked it a lot and the interaction with other students contributed to this favorably, like getting turned around in the building while trying to leave and having some random guy notice and ask if I needed help. I didn't see DMU as being rural as avoidthetiger mentioned, just more small city? Now, Kirksville is my definition of rural and I don't think you could pay me any amount of money to live & study there...I think I would go mad.

I may be leaning towards DMU right now, but I still don't really know. It seemed like DMU had a lot of students married or with families and being someone who isn't in those categories makes me wonder if i'd have the the social experience there that I would like. Anyway, Sideways' post kind of pulled me away from KCUMB. Anybody have info on any skeletons in DMU's closet?

 

[rtm903]

@DoctorJDO - Did I talk a lot about being from Chicago? haha, I don't even remember. Though, I think I remember you But yes, as of right now I would like to end up in Chicago for residency and CCOM would seem to be the best choice. However, for some reason it didn't jump out to me as I was hoping it would. Though, the more I think about it, the more I am open to being somewhere else for residency depending where life takes me, lol.

@sideways - thanks so much for directing me to that thread! I actually didn't much care for KCUMB initially during my interview day, but as the day progressed the school grew on me. It might be the work of the admin and student ambassadors though because I found it odd that no other students tried to interact with us that day, I mean like NONE. Whereas compared to other schools, random students in the hallway or on campus would come up and say hi and chat. I've also been trying to get in touch with a student at KCUMB but they don't give out a list of student contacts and I get the feeling that they do that so they can choose who you talk too - big brother style i guess...lol

Some ramblings about DMU - I actually had a good feeling about DMU, I liked it a lot and the interaction with other students contributed to this favorably, like getting turned around in the building while trying to leave and having some random guy notice and ask if I needed help. I didn't see DMU as being rural as avoidthetiger mentioned, just more small city? Now, Kirksville is my definition of rural and I don't think you could pay me any amount of money to live & study there...I think I would go mad.

I may be leaning towards DMU right now, but I still don't really know. It seemed like DMU had a lot of students married or with families and being someone who isn't in those categories makes me wonder if i'd have the the social experience there that I would like. Anyway, Sideways' post kind of pulled me away from KCUMB. Anybody have info on any skeletons in DMU's closet?

I've only heard really positive things about DMU. It's in Des Moines, so while Chicago is definitely a cooler city, you need to remember that CCOM will be more than an hour drive during peak times to get into the city.

 

[seap3]

AutumnChild - what made you rule out AZCOM? Right now I'm trying to decide between DMU & AZCOM.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

AutumnChild -- I have also heard great things about DMU. It was the one place I was recommend to apply to from Chicago Docs that I know -- though I didn't have one of the LORs they required, so I couldn't apply.

I guess I should be happy now that I am not attending KCUMB. It looked like such a great school.

AutumnChild - what made you rule out AZCOM? Right now I'm trying to decide between DMU & AZCOM.

AZCOM has had a bad rep regarding clinical rotation experiences and placement the past few years. Considering that these two years are very important, you don't want to attend a school with a reputation of not placing students in good sites.

When I found out about this, I decided to not even interview at AZCOM.

 

[PlayUltimate15]

So these are my top three choices and I'm trying to figure out which to put my deposit on by the Dec. 14/15th deadline. I've been trying to narrow it down for the past few weeks and I still haven't been able to . Mainly because I haven't heard from any current KCUMB students yet (in response to some questions I asked over e-mail). So in addition to getting current student opinions through e-mail, I was thinking I could get some on here as well and also get some opinions from fellow applicants. Maybe this will also help others trying to make a decision too!

So, which should I put my money on?

Congrats on your acceptances! I'm trying to decide between MSU-COM and CCOM right now. It's tough, but I'm grateful that I have the choice to make. Right now I'm studying for a midterm which I have in 2 hours. Later tonight I'll come back and discuss my thought process. I'm trying to figure out what should be the most important factors in my choice, and maybe that will help you as well!

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

AZCOM has had a bad rep regarding clinical rotation experiences and placement the past few years. Considering that these two years are very important, you don't want to attend a school with a reputation of not placing students in good sites.

When I found out about this, I decided to not even interview at AZCOM.

While this was very true in recent years, like you stated. More recently, they've acquired more Arizona sites (160) for their class of 250 and they have done a better job of making sure it's someone close to MWU that is guiding students. Not to mention that these rotation sites are assigned early on in an MWU matriculant's life, and not JUST prior to third-year the way it is at other places. And it's certainly not the lottery system that KCUMB uses. I have interviews lined up at AutumnChild's other schools but I can't say how excited I am for them after getting AZCOM And MSU-COM's acceptances.

EDIT: I'm also kind of leaning towards AZCOM because of their board scores and things of that nature and it's closer to home.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

So these are my top three choices and I'm trying to figure out which to put my deposit on by the Dec. 14/15th deadline. I've been trying to narrow it down for the past few weeks and I still haven't been able to . Mainly because I haven't heard from any current KCUMB students yet (in response to some questions I asked over e-mail). So in addition to getting current student opinions through e-mail, I was thinking I could get some on here as well and also get some opinions from fellow applicants. Maybe this will also help others trying to make a decision too!

So, which should I put my money on?

But to answer YOUR question, I would say:

CCOM because you're from there. You know the place - I feel there is such a thing as a homefield advantage and you have it in a way because it's your environment!

KCUMB appears to have a really cool curriculum that few to none of the DO schools enjoy. I know a lot of the MD schools have this style of teaching. And from pictures, the campus looks nice. We'll see in a month or so.

I can't comment on DMU because although I've been invited to interview, I don't know anything about it. Listen to these guys, though, they seem to know!

Good luck deciding, but I'd go to CCOM. If I lived in Chicago, I'd love to go to a Chicago school!

 

[AutumnChild]

I've only heard really positive things about DMU. It's in Des Moines, so while Chicago is definitely a cooler city, you need to remember that CCOM will be more than an hour drive during peak times to get into the city.

The whole driving to Chicago thing isn't really an issue for me. I'm a native of the chi-suburbs so i'm used to the scary driving times if i want to go into the city-city.

AutumnChild - what made you rule out AZCOM? Right now I'm trying to decide between DMU & AZCOM.

Well, I kind of had my heart set on DMU, CCOM and KCUMB after my interviews and I figured since I have an acceptance at CCOM there really isn't a point for me to go to AZCOM. I know they're both run differently, and AZCOM did wow me with board scores, but CCOM is closer to home and has a very solid rep as well. So pretty much, just location. I think if I was from the west coast, I would choose AZCOM over CCOM. Unless Chicago is where I wanted to end up.

Congrats on your acceptances! I'm trying to decide between MSU-COM and CCOM right now. It's tough, but I'm grateful that I have the choice to make. Right now I'm studying for a midterm which I have in 2 hours. Later tonight I'll come back and discuss my thought process. I'm trying to figure out what should be the most important factors in my choice, and maybe that will help you as well!

Yeah, this is definitely a good problem to have! Good luck on your midterm, I look forward to reading about how you are going about deciding. It's nice to see other people's perspectives and approaches to this little dilemma

But to answer YOUR question, I would say:
CCOM because you're from there. You know the place - I feel there is such a thing as a homefield advantage and you have it in a way because it's your environment!
Good luck deciding, but I'd go to CCOM. If I lived in Chicago, I'd love to go to a Chicago school!

It seems like the obvious choice, doesn't it? Chicago is really an amazing city, I absolutely love it - aside from the abysmal traffic! But when I interviewed at CCOM, it didn't grab me and wow me like I hoped it would

 

[MightyMoose]

I wouldn't touch KCUMB with your ****... the following is just a sampling. A little research on here reveals scores more dirt on KCUMB. I would tread cautiously if I were you.

From everything I can tell, the first and second years at KCUMB are much happier than they used to be. Not to mention, you are forming an opinion about a school on 3 posters who aren't experiencing the same curriculum that is currently in place.

 

[sideways]

From everything I can tell, the first and second years at KCUMB are much happier than they used to be. Not to mention, you are forming an opinion about a school on 3 posters who aren't experiencing the same curriculum that is currently in place.

First and second years haven't taken boards nor rotated yet. My opinion isn't based solely on those posts.

 

[MightyMoose]

First and second years haven't taken boards nor rotated yet. My opinion isn't based solely on those posts.

Their board pass rate for step 1 varies between 92-94%... Step 2 ~92% and step 3 ~98%.

So, I'm not sure what you are saying. Do you feel like those pass rates are low?


With a school that has >240 students per class, I'm not going to rest my opinion on <5 students (who didn't even go through the same current curriculum, they experienced the shift... Which admittedly would not be fun). I met more than 5 students on interview day that were very happy, so I guess it just depends on the individuals. Some people like to stir up trouble and complain, others just get their work done. I fall into the latter category. I'm going to med school to compete for a residency spot. If my peers want to bicker with administration about whether they get this or that, more power to them. They give you all the resources to succeed, have excellent alumni connections, and a very strong match list year after year in both AOA and ACGME residencies. This is what I think a medical school needs to provide and they seem to provide it.

 

[WDeagle]

I wouldn't touch KCUMB with your ****... the following is just a sampling. A little research on here reveals scores more dirt on KCUMB. I would tread cautiously if I were you.

That conversation is from 3-4 years ago and most of the points are moot. The administration at the school is new and i think most students are really happy with them. I was unsure initially if i had made the right choice with KCUMB but im very glad i did. I honestly think its one of the best DO schools out there. The only other DO schools i would have gone to would be PCOM or maybe DMU. Maybe NOVA because of the weather.

As far as KCUMB vs CCOM vs DMU its really a personal decision. I think those are 3 of the best DO schools. I am currently at a clinical rotation site that is shared by KCUMB and DMU students with students from other schools interspersed. The consensus from attendings and the people in medical education is that KCUMB students are better prepared for rotations. Either way the DMU kids seem like they know what they are doing and any perceived difference is probably not a big deal after a few rotations. I would look at tuition cost and location as a big factor in this case.

 

[WDeagle]

First and second years haven't taken boards nor rotated yet. My opinion isn't based solely on those posts.

Most 3rd and 4th years are pretty happy. I was happy with boards as well. The only complaint i have is that 3rd years who dont stay in KC dont have much contact from the school. There is alot of disorganization and its not very clear what we are supposed to be doing. This is something the students from other schools at my site go through too. This is the problem when schools dont have their own hospital and send students hundreds of miles away for rotations. At least KCUMB(and DMU) have good clinical sites that make up for the disorganization.

Look im no KCUMB apologist. There are plenty of things about the school that piss me off. All im saying is not to make a decision on some stupid thread from 4 years ago in which most of what was being said is from a few disgruntled students. Im overall very happy with the school and would choose to go there again. Most of the problems i have the school are organizational which unfortunately is pretty much a given in the world of medical education. As far as education i think the school is definately better than most. Im not sure where Sideways's agenda against KCUMB is coming from. I just think it would be smarter to listen to advice from current students of the school rather than someone who goes to another school.

 

[sideways]

Most 3rd and 4th years are pretty happy. I was happy with boards as well. The only complaint i have is that 3rd years who dont stay in KC dont have much contact from the school. There is alot of disorganization and its not very clear what we are supposed to be doing. This is something the students from other schools at my site go through too. This is the problem when schools dont have their own hospital and send students hundreds of miles away for rotations. At least KCUMB(and DMU) have good clinical sites that make up for the disorganization.

Look im no KCUMB apologist. There are plenty of things about the school that piss me off. All im saying is not to make a decision on some stupid thread from 4 years ago in which most of what was being said is from a few disgruntled students. Im overall very happy with the school and would choose to go there again. Most of the problems i have the school are organizational which unfortunately is pretty much a given in the world of medical education. As far as education i think the school is definately better than most. Im not sure where Sideways's agenda against KCUMB is coming from. I just think it would be smarter to listen to advice from current students of the school rather than someone who goes to another school.

The posts I referenced are from 2009. The last post I referenced is from Thursday.

 

[AutumnChild]

I haven't ruled out KCUMB just because of those few posts. It's still in the running until I dig up some more info and see how I feel. However, those disgruntled posts ARE pretty current as they were posted in 2009 and as recently as Thursday.

 

[DoctorJDO]

@autumnchild: don't worry, you didn't mention Chicago too much! Also, you were worried about the social life. DMU has 220 students in each class. Even if 1/4 of the class is married or has kids, there are still 165 other people to hang out with.

 

[WDeagle]

I haven't ruled out KCUMB just because of those few posts. It's still in the running until I dig up some more info and see how I feel. However, those disgruntled posts ARE pretty current as they were posted in 2009 and as recently as Thursday.

I guess it comes down to this: if you do well on boards and get the residency you want you love your school but if you didnt you hate your school. There are several people in my class who are disgruntled with our school. These people also failed or did poorly on boards. Im pretty happy with my school right now but ive done well so far. If something goes wrong ill definately be on SDN complaining about how much i hate KCUMB.

I really hate to defend my school because honestly i dont care what people think about the school or if pre-meds choose to go elsewhere. The class will be filled no matter what. I really dont like it that much. I just dont want people to go to a school thats actually worse because they happened to read the bad KCUMB thread. I remember discovering those above threads after i had already sent in my deposit and freaking out. I thought i had just made the worse decision and had ruined my career before it even started. In the end i had a really good experience in my pre-clinical years. I would have been regretful if i had chosen to go my other DO options.

 

[AutumnChild]

I guess it comes down to this: if you do well on boards and get the residency you want you love your school but if you didnt you hate your school. There are several people in my class who are disgruntled with our school. These people also failed or did poorly on boards. Im pretty happy with my school right now but ive done well so far. If something goes wrong ill definately be on SDN complaining about how much i hate KCUMB.

I really hate to defend my school because honestly i dont care what people think about the school or if pre-meds choose to go elsewhere. The class will be filled no matter what. I really dont like it that much. I just dont want people to go to a school thats actually worse because they happened to read the bad KCUMB thread. I remember discovering those above threads after i had already sent in my deposit and freaking out. I thought i had just made the worse decision and had ruined my career before it even started. In the end i had a really good experience in my pre-clinical years. I would have been regretful if i had chosen to go my other DO options.

Well, I'm more interested in what current students think of the school and i'm not going to make a decision purely based off of a couple SDN posts. Do you mind PM'ing me your opinions about the school? Like why you don't like it all that much and maybe some things you do like?

 

[megathunder]

Well it goes without saying that the word of a few should not be taken to represent the feelings of the majority. It is very provincial to base a decision off of 4-5 negative students on here (which no doubt were posted because they needed an outlet to vent). I'm sure the students that are over there having a blast and enjoying their time don't feel the need to come on here and defend their school (I sure as heck won't be back on here wherever I am in a year). I'm sure the plethora of students matching into surgical residencies (more than DMU and CCOM) and other specialties found KCUMB's education, reputation, and alumni network just fine to achieve the success they had.

There are bad things written about every school, and I am not surprised such was the sentiment with KCUMB when the school was changing a lot of its administration. You only have to look to its dedication to upgrading every part of the campus (brand new auditorium, library, and student center) to see the seriousness with which the staff is concerned with student quality of life/education.

Regardless of all this, Autumn, it seems like you'll be most happy at DMU. It seems like you're looking mainly for reasons to disqualify the other schools to make yourself most content with the decision to attend DMU. If that's the case you should just go ahead and stick with your gut as that gives you the highest likelihood of being happy. I, on the other hand, thought KCUMB was an amazing school with beautiful historic architecture, a fantastic curriculum, highly-regarded professors, an ideal location 5 minutes from a major downtown, abundant research opportunities rare for osteopathic schools, and a reputation amongst osteopaths that precedes itself all across the U.S. I'll most likely be choosing it over AZCOM, KCOM, NSU, and Western.

Ps. Anybody can cherry pick a few good/bad posts to make a school out to be the best or the worst.

I'm biased because I go to KCUMB, but I'll tell you the reason that KCUMB has a good match list has more to do with the training the students get the first two years. The reason I say that is because students are on a systems curriculum which focuses almost entirely on clinical presentations.

Pathology lab is morning report. The class is split up into groups and we show up for our lab and what happens is that one of our classmates presents a case just as they would do for their attending on rotations, complete with X-rays, histo, gross pictures, lab values, etc. The rest of the class has to diagnose (individually write down a diagnosis). This is what our path lab is and we do this from the fourth week of school on for the entire two years, so we learn how to read all these tests, how to play detective and rule things in and out based on the labs, and how to come up with differentials and a diagnosis (even though half the time, we clearly have no clue what we're doing, but I'm told that over time, practice makes us much, much better).

We had our first patient simulator interaction on the second day of school and our first standardized patient interaction on the 6th week of school. We learned how to write a SOAP note the second week of school (and were tested on it). I have friends at other schools who haven't done any of that yet. We also have opportunities to do sports physicals in the city with our professors on the weekends, so we actually do interact with real non-standardized patients. We also have a program called Score 1, where we go out to the elementary schools around the area and do physicals for the kids. We get to screen them for vision, hearing, dental, and the actual physical assessments. I got to do a full physical -- heart and lung sounds, ears, eyes, reflexes, spine, etc., etc. a month after school began.

Because of all this, from what I've been told by current third and fourth years both at KCUMB and at one of the MD schools here in town, when third years hit the wards, they're doing things they've done a 100 times over (and been graded on), so they shine. Their clinical grades are good and they walk away with good LORs to apply for residency.

I interviewed at both and chose KCUMB over DMU. I liked them both very much, but felt the professors and students at KCUMB made it a better fit for me. I think you should go to both your interviews and make a decision on which is better for you personally and not which is better for anyone else. I had several interviews around the country (I understand the expense involved, however this is a big decision!) You can tell which school is the right one for you. It is then just a matter of them choosing you! Best of Luck!

i chose KCUMB out of the 4 DO schools I got accepted to because I felt they provided one of the best medical school educations out there. The patient simulators are brand new, a lot of the facilities are very new as well and their match lists are also outstanding. I also like kcumb's wide selection of rotation sites so I can basically go anywhere in the country I want for rotations. Some people dont like that, but to me that was a plus.

See how I did that?

 

[sideways]

See how I did that?

Yeah, except your examples are from pre-clinical students giving praise to completely irrelevant things like Patient Simulators and the structure of Morning Report in their path class.

I understand KCUMB has a nice lawn. But you might want to look into how the school's curriculum forces you to focus on board irrelevant material at a time when you severely need to be studying board relevant material, and that you may be doing your Psych rotation at the 7-11 across the street - playing hackey-sack with the local vagrants while sucking on a Slurpee and asking them "how they feel."

 

[megathunder]

To continue the cherry-picking fun some more...

CCOM:

they have probably one of the worst testing systems...essentially you have 1-2 tests a week on average...not counting the first few weeks of course....usually on mondays and fridays.

so ..it all sounds nice and dandy.....that is until you start just studying for one class for the exam coming up...and then you neglect your other work...so by midterms...you are in a vicious cycle of just studying for the test coming up instead of keeping up with all course work and that is never a good thing.....

also they have individual tests...1 test for anatomy, 1 for physio, etc, while other schools just combine the tests into 1 big test

of course then another a system is blocks..where you have individual exams for all ure classes...but at one time

CCOM also has a reputation of having one of the most rigorous basic science years...in terms of the number of tests...the number of lecture hours, and of course, the testing schedule.

Yeah, the frequent testing is the biggest problem, imo. While most students supposedly don't go to class there, I have heard they have a very old school approach to lecture hours and labs, where you would be stuck in school all day if you did want to go to lecture and you have lab (not just anatomy or OMM) frequently.

yeah thats why i didnt even apply to ccom, i didnt like their structure at all.

i did get interviewed and accepted by both kcumb and western, i felt kcumb was the superior of those two for pretty much every category except location

I was also surprized that CCOM has only like 78% first and second choice match. Also. 92% step I pass rate is not as impressive as KCUMB's 98%. At KCUMB, director of admissions told us their students get 88-90% match into their first choice. That was impressive.

[About CCOM]Even their lectures are old schooled.....they give you a packet..and you are expected to memorize it....but there's no organization..for example, anatomy...the lectures are literally a whole page with no indents, paragraphs or any sort of organization..just a jumble mumble of words....i've seen it my self.

Also, for some classes, it is almost impossible to find out how you did on the test....so much for learning from mistakes.

To fill in where you are guessing - KCUMB sends a large majority of its students into specialties... typically about 3/4 of the class.

I really know nothing about CCOM (don't even know if the information in this thread is accurate), and I'm certainly not trying to be negative about the school, but why would you want to go somewhere that has a more rigorous lecture and exam schedule and yet doesn't prepare you as well for the boards? I'd rather be a little more relaxed and a little better prepared. Something to think about.

Just FYI, to my knowledge, there is no notetaking service at CCOM.

When searching through old stuff on SDN you get misinformation, unhappy students, outdated data, etc etc etc. You must be careful to filter things for yourself and not get swayed by singular opinions.

And Ps. It seems like most of the negative info being spread on SDN is by this one user named 'spicedmanna'. The funny thing is if you look in his/her post history he/she was totally stoked about going to KCUMB before he/she got there. Then a couple years later he/she started being completely negative toward the school. Maybe its just me but it seems like the poor thing just had a bad experience with the school and proceeded to vent left and right on the boards. Definitely not a source I would take too seriously, or base my decision on, but thats just me.

 

[MightyMoose]

^LOL

brb getting a shovel bro


Your own example is supporting my point. Because all you posted about CCOM is accurate too. It's well-known for being incredibly rigorous. They test your balls off.

Dude, I don't understand why you hate KCUMB so much? What amazingly perfect medical school did you end up at?

 

[megathunder]

^LOL

brb getting a shovel bro


Your own example is supporting my point. Because all you posted about CCOM is accurate too. It's well-known for being incredibly rigorous. They test your balls off.

First, I'm not your bro. Second, I'm not gonna argue with you here as I've already made a point that's obvious for everyone to see.

It's a shame, I actually thought you were funny in the thread about how to go DO->MD, but I guess you're just childish and purposefully antagonistic. Some people just gotta have that abrasive online persona to feel cool.

 

[sideways]

Dude, I don't understand why you hate KCUMB so bad? What amazingly perfect medical school did you end up at?

I'm a Capitalist Pig. As such I appreciate free markets. When schools **** over their students and take advantage of them, I enjoy relaying that fact to prospective students so they can pre-emptively **** them back by not attending the institution. It's really the only way you're ever going to see change - by word of mouth and consequence. If these schools that are ****ing over their students have a reputation of doing so, they won't be able to continue to get away with it.

SDN is the perfect place to discuss these realities and get word of mouth going so these schools won't be able to get away with their smoke and mirrors.

My school (which I'm not naming) isn't perfect either. But if a bunch of students from my school came on here exposing its imperfections, as long as they were truthful, what's the problem? Information is power my man.

 

[DbDan]

Groan. Such hostility.

Yes, you have to take any review you read on SDN with a grain of salt. There are going to be students happy and unhappy at every school. There are going to be people who have dissenting opinions about anything, med school is no different.

I guess my point is to make your decision based upon what is best for you and where you feel that you will receive the best education tailored to your own strengths. If weekly testing and systems based approach isn't for you, maybe CCOM wouldn't be right (just guessing based on AZCOM's cirriculum). Maybe KC isn't somewhere you'd be entirely comfortable... Don't go. Same goes for PBL cirriculums, Western's unique cirriculum, etc. It's obviously not as simple as that but if you listen to online opinions of 1,000 people, chances are they are just going to pull you in 1,000 different directions. You have 6 weeks before the check is due at this point. Take a step back and look at each school objectively. Personally, I'll be weighing everything I know about each school once I have my options and deciding on my own based on what is best for me and my future. If you make the decision with where you are most comfortable, you have a much higher chance of being happy once you get there.

 

[MightyMoose]

I'm a Capitalist Pig. As such I appreciate free markets. When schools **** over their students and take advantage of them, I enjoy relaying that fact to prospective students so they can pre-emptively **** them back by not attending the institution. It's really the only way you're ever going to see change - by word of mouth and consequence. If these schools that are ****ing over their students have a reputation of doing so, they won't be able to continue to get away with it.

SDN is the perfect place to discuss these realities and get word of mouth going so these schools won't be able to get away with their smoke and mirrors.

My school (which I'm not naming) isn't perfect either. But if a bunch of students from my school came on here exposing its imperfections, as long as they were truthful, what's the problem? Information is power my man.

You don't need to preach capitalism to me. I'm a capitalist through and through, but your posts are bordering on obsessive. I completely understand your first one, that was your point, but then you kept on and on and on, but yet you have no direct experience with the school... I have friends in top notch programs that despise the ground the schools were founded on, but I know these people and they would hate any school... Some people are just naturally not going to like things, others have reasons not to like them, but you are posting based off the opinions of a few and passing them off as the end all be all, then trashing people who are posting their opinions about the school. That's not capitalism, it's bullying.

You seem to keep ignoring the posts that discuss their high board pass rates (above average year after year), the fact that many people are very well prepared for clinical years, and that there is no DO school where everyone will love every rotation they get. That's just not going to happen. Sometimes rotations you think will be great, are horrible and others you think are going to be horrible end up being your favorites or work out very well. It's a crapshoot. Someone could go to a school that has "better" rotations and still get stuck with the crap rotations, but that doesn't mean that most of them are crappy. It sometimes just comes down to chance, personality time, what attending you are paired with, and what you make of it. Here is something that is probably a surprise to you, but there are a number of people in medicine and going into medicine that have... less than amazing personalities. These people might not get along anywhere and can certainly lead attendings to distance themselves from them or give them lower grades on average. Get used to this, because when you hit residency you will be graded the same way. I don't care if you go to a top name Ivy or a bottom of the barrel no name program. You're going to meet people that use you up and don't give two ****s about you. It happens everyday and will continue to happen. You just have to roll with the punches. So, when you end up in random rotation sites, whether that's due to a lottery or choice those sites could end up as a nightmare for you, but others might do fine there. It's all in what you make of it and unfortunately, just learning to suck it up.

I am glad you like your program, but apparently capitalism only works one way for you... You will disparage other programs, but not highlight your own that is apparently better... Although, I believe I know what program you go to, I won't share it and I have heard that it has it's own set of problems, as you have already stated.

 

[dkrames1]

I go to KCUMB and really like the school for many different reasons. I chose this school over KCOM (only places I went to interviews) due to location so my advice is different than the usual "this school vs. that school." My girlfriend goes to the 6-yr MD/BS program at UMKC which is 2 miles south of KCUMB and I wanted to move in with her before we are for sure getting married. I was invited by October to interviews at AZCOM, DMU, DeBusk Lincoln, SOMA, and NYCOM (invited in March apparently forgot to cancel) but only went to the KCOM and KCUMB interview. I am generally easily impressed and the only thing that I really wanted was a place with a good gym (which compared to schools I visited randomly the year before OSU, KCOM, CCOM, DMU... its good enough that I dont have to join a gym but not preferable for me but there will be a new one by July). I have a family friend who is an almuni and living a life of luxury in retirement is an understatement with this guy. He went to KCUMB in the 50's (he's old) and was the team radiologist for the Stl Cardinals Football team, before they moved to Arizona. He bragged that he was the first DO ever accepted into the Washu residency program in St. Louis. He told me stories about the school and how when went the interview asked him one question... "Are you able to pay the $900/semester fee?." He also told me how they had 3 different presidents/CEOs during his 4 years there. Most importantly he told me that KCUMB allowed him to achieve everything he ever wanted and as a board advisor he ensured it would do the same for me.
I sit in the front of my class of 246 everyday during lecture and even though we started Aug 2, and have small group sessions I still see someone everyday that I did not know was in our class. The point is there are a lot of different personalities and opinions in every class. There are always 10 people that I know of that subconsciously love to hear themselves complain. We all know certain people have various ways of venting stress and some of us get relief by complaining to each other about this or that. I am feeling relaxed by typing this when I should be going over the Physiology/Anatomy lectures right now. My main point is when you are picking your school try to get a large sample size of reviews about various aspects about each school. For those of you SDNers that are lucky enough to have a choice in school decide what is most important to you for medical school. Then put a post in the previous class's forum (i.e. KCUMB class of 2014) or search for us in groups on Facebook (same name). Then can you get a larger sample of opinions. Again there is so much that goes into a decision for those of you on the edge of one school or another. PM me with specific concerns that might help you choose one way or another. I believe I am objective. Hold off on posting hate toward one school or another. Hate is too rampant in this thread. Good luck and remember no matter which path you end up taking will lead to your dream of becoming a doctor (unless you fail out).

 

[KStateDoc]

I'm a 2nd year at KCUMB, and am more than willing to help out if you want some insight into things here in KC. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to PM me. I don't have a ton of time to write up a huge diatribe about my feelings about the school, so just let me know if you want to know something specific. I love KCUMB and I think I'm getting a fantastic education here! Please don't let a few negative posts by a few select people dictate your feelings about the school!

 

[denco88]

Also remember that people are more likely to post when they have a bad experience... its human nature. we complain more than we praise

 

[MSUSpartan642]

First year at CCOM here. I just wanted to say that even though the testing schedule is difficult that I actually believe it helps us, there is no time to become complacent. Do you have to cram for every test? God no. But you have to keep up on your material each day, the days of taking entire weeks off are over as they should be.

As for the thing that the person posted above about our notes, I don't think it is that far out of date. I mean at least they give you a note pack so you don't have to frantically write down everything that comes out of the teachers mouths. All of the departments are WONDERFUL so far at CCOM and the teachers have been nothing but helpful. The one blemish I would have to say thus far is the Biochemistry class that we have here. It is nothing at all what I was expecting and if anything I'm disappointed in the quality of the course. I have nothing to say so far about anything past all the book work though.

Good luck with your choice and if you need any help just let me know!

 

[AutumnChild]

I just wanted to thank all of you for your input (and don't mind more). I received some very thorough info from past/current students and fellow interviewees. You would think all this info would make this decision easier for me but I am still at a loss to which school to choose. Well, there's almost a month to go... i have to figure it out by then, lol.

 

[MightyMoose]

I just wanted to thank all of you for your input (and don't mind more). I received some very thorough info from past/current students and fellow interviewees. You would think all this info would make this decision easier for me but I am still at a loss to which school to choose. Well, there's almost a month to go... i have to figure it out by then, lol.

You should do a second look. Call up the schools and see if it would be okay for you to head down to each for an afternoon. You could probably do that at CCOM pretty easily and DMU wouldn't be too bad of a drive, but KCUMB might be a little rougher on the drive time. I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but whichever one you pick, you will be going to a great school. So, your decision is ultimately going to come down to feel. Let us know what you decide. I was hoping this was the "I've decided post" and I actually got a little excited for you before I read it. haha.

 

[AutumnChild]

You should do a second look. Call up the schools and see if it would be okay for you to head down to each for an afternoon. You could probably do that at CCOM pretty easily and DMU wouldn't be too bad of a drive, but KCUMB might be a little rougher on the drive time. I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but whichever one you pick, you will be going to a great school. So, your decision is ultimately going to come down to feel. Let us know what you decide. I was hoping this was the "I've decided post" and I actually got a little excited for you before I read it. haha.

That would be a good idea if I had the time and money for second looks. I'm in Virginia right now for my interview tomorrow and I have another at the end of November. I guess I should at least be comforted by the fact that all three are good schools so no matter which I choose, it probably won't be a dud. If memory serves me correctly, I think I read a post of yours that said u are pretty set on KCUMB? Kind of tempted to choose it just b/c I think you'd be a pretty cool classmate But silliness aside, I will definitely let this thread know which school I choose. Maybe i'll get an epiphany one of these days

 

[DoctorJDO]

First, I didn't go to any fancy school like dartmouth, or conduct any research on adelomorphous cadmium, but I do have opinions about your school choices that are going to disembogue from me for the next 30 seconds, possibly a rich demulcent for your anxieties. If you would like to demur my post, I assure you that I am not badmouthing any school. I simply would like to make a demisemiquaver, as the british would call it, about your choices, as disharmonious as this may read. My discomposure is not meant to discombobulate you, and my odd vocabulary is not meant to make you feel diminutive. As you catch my bolded drift, I leave the Decision Making Up to you...

 

[doctorpurple]

First, I didn't go to any fancy school like dartmouth, or conduct any research on adelomorphous cadmium, but I do have opinions about your school choices that are going to disembogue from me for the next 30 seconds, possibly a rich demulcent for your anxieties. If you would like to demur my post, I assure you that I am not badmouthing any school. I simply would like to make a demisemiquaver, as the british would call it, about your choices, as disharmonious as this may read. My discomposure is not meant to discombobulate you, and my odd vocabulary is not meant to make you feel diminutive. As you catch my bolded drift, I leave the Decision Making Up to you...

this is cool

 

[AutumnChild]

First, I didn't go to any fancy school like dartmouth, or conduct any research on adelomorphous cadmium, but I do have opinions about your school choices that are going to disembogue from me for the next 30 seconds, possibly a rich demulcent for your anxieties. If you would like to demur my post, I assure you that I am not badmouthing any school. I simply would like to make a demisemiquaver, as the british would call it, about your choices, as disharmonious as this may read. My discomposure is not meant to discombobulate you, and my odd vocabulary is not meant to make you feel diminutive. As you catch my bolded drift, I leave the Decision Making Up to you...

Looks like i'm getting many signs pointing to a distinctive midwest university, lol

 

[DoctorJDO]

Looks like i'm getting many signs pointing to a distinctive midwest university, lol

oooh, very nice! that's definitely my understanding, as well

 

[megathunder]

oooh, very nice! that's definitely my understanding, as well

Are you guys talking about that one dinky medical university?

 

[DoctorJDO]

please don't make understatements.. it has a large class of 220. is there anyone who can comment on megathunder's preference or kindly comment under my basic post setup?

 

[DoctorJDO]

KCUMB is clearly going to limit your ability to play silly word games with its name. I mean, K is like 5 points in scrabble. just saying...but they are all really cool schools

 

[AutumnChild]

For those of you still interested, I think I've finally decided! Haven't put any money down yet but i'm 90% sure I will be choosing DMU. Major factors leading to this decision include the roughly 28 weeks of elective rotation time, safety reputation of the area, distance from home and just the general vibe I got from the school at and after my interview.

Hooray for a decision! lol

 

[PunkmedGirl]

For those of you still interested, I think I've finally decided! Haven't put any money down yet but i'm 90% sure I will be choosing DMU. Major factors leading to this decision include the roughly 28 weeks of elective rotation time, safety reputation of the area, distance from home and just the general vibe I got from the school at and after my interview.

Hooray for a decision! lol

Congrats on your big decision!!!!