HMS vs. Penn

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tenniseagle92

tenniseagle92

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Hey everyone! I had a thread before comparing three awesome schools (back in the old, shoved aside 2014 School Specific Threads), and due to some awesome advice coupled with a great Preview weekend I ended up choosing Penn. However, I was accepted off of the wait list at HMS this past weekend, and I now I am genuinely very confused about what to do. A quick disclaimer: I know both are amazing schools, and I feel incredibly honored to be in this position. At the start of the cycle, I never could have imagined being in this position...which is why this decision is becoming so tough. Also, @breakintheroof has given me some awesome advice so far, I just want some additional advice (especially from current med students/residents).

Harvard
+++ I've been in Boston my entire life, and my whole support system is here. I have college friends and high school friends all around the city, my family is based here, and my significant other is also here. My boyfriend and I are long-term, but not to the point where I'm sure we're getting married or anything (I know that's often asked in these threads). For the sake of my own sanity, I'm not trying to factor in my relationship much. My family and friends are the bigger anchors I feel holding me down here.
+ I'm slightly sick of Boston, but I do love it as a city (diehard Boston sports fan) and I know how much of a medical mecca it is.
+ Pass/Fail with no AOA appeals to me a lot
+ I have worked at MGH and BWH and have connections there, including one long-term research mentor in a field of interest.
+/- New curriculum (Pathways) seems enticing and I really love the idea of front-loading medical education to be able to focus the last two years (or 19 months, specifically) to do research, electives, etc. to prepare for your residency of choice. That said, it will be the first year of the new curriculum, and we'll be testing it out...that could lead to quite a few bumps in the road.
+ Mentors here have told me that HMS might open some doors that "other schools could not," but I couldn't exactly explain what those doors would be. I honestly don't care at all about prestige, particularly at this level of school. I'm not someone who will get kicks out of saying "I go to Harvard" enough to go...it's just a school, and this process is random enough for me to know not to let my head get too big about it.
+/- Compared to Penn, there will be much less certainty around how this new curriculum will affect board scores/the match. That said, I was planning to try to match to BWH/MGH anyway, and HMS is obviously the best place to go for that.
---I didn't get a chance to go to revisit, so I have no idea what my classmates will be like...and I really loved the kids at Penn. They have the work hard, play hard mentality that got me through college and that I think would be great to have in med school (though obviously more work and less play). The problem is, I just don't know what HMS kids are like...they could be some potential great friends, or I might not click with them. For what it's worth, I know three current HMS students that I get along with well (though I've heard classes always have different "flavors").
--Don't have HMS' financial aid package yet (will update when I do), but my EFC is 0 and family combined income is under $100,000, which says I should get HMS' highest possible package (which will be less than Penn's, as I'll get to below).

Penn
++ The classmates at Penn were awesome. I clicked well with almost everyone I met, and have stayed in touch with 10+ people since revisit.
+ Great financial aid. Scholarship + financial aid = About 4k over full tuition, so I'd be in debt about 18k per year (Harvard's would probably be more like 30k per year).
+ Curriculum is tried and true, with awesome matching and board scores. With my ties to Boston, I think I'd have a solid chance of matching back in Boston.
+ Don't know too much about Philadelphia, but it seems like a cool, fun city. I think I'd have a good four years there.
- Do not like Penn's H/P/F, though I don't think it'll be too significant.
-- No family/friends support in the area, but I'm an outgoing person and would heading to local bars to meet some people my age that were outside of the med school bubble. (if I have time..). Would also either be doing long-distance or breaking up with my bf, who is getting his PhD at Harvard.

Overall, I know I'm incredibly fortunate to be in this position, and some honest introspection has shown me that I prefer Penn slightly as an institution and school, but everything else points HMS. Also, HMS is shrouded in uncertainty, which makes choosing it very unsettling. I didn't meet potential classmates, and I also didn't hear all their (I'm sure very well-rehearsed) spiels about the new curriculum. It feels like a bigger risk academically, and I don't want to go in blindly thinking it'll be fine just because it's HMS.

Lastly, I didn't create a poll because I want to avoid the HMS spam that would invariably happen. I don't care about going to Harvard because "it's Harvard," so that's shouldn't be a reason in my opinion.

You guy have helped me so much throughout this process, and I'm excited to finally be done. Any advice is incredibly appreciated, particularly as I have less than a week to decide. Thank you all in advance 🙂
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Both are at the pinnacle of medical education. Reading what you've written here and having followed your previous thread, I think that Penn would be the best decision by a small margin (particularly the cost and that it is more of a known quantity), though honestly you absolutely cannot go wrong with either. Congratulations on your choices and no matter where you go I'm sure you will succeed!
 
WedgeDawg said:
Both are at the pinnacle of medical education. Reading what you've written here and having followed your previous thread, I think that Penn would be the best decision by a small margin (particularly the cost and that it is more of a known quantity), though honestly you absolutely cannot go wrong with either. Congratulations on your choices and no matter where you go I'm sure you will succeed!
Click to expand...

Thanks so much @WedgeDawg . I agree, HMS is a much more opaque option...but it could also have more return on investment if I do like my classmates/the new curriculum, especially given that I would like to be in Boston for residency. Financial aid will be a big determinant (hopefully getting this today or tomorrow, and I'll update when I do).

My biggest inquiry is how much I should be weighing specific factors about the school vs. intangibles (meaning my support system in Boston), especially when the education at both will be top-notch.

EDIT: Also huge congrats on making that applicant rating system, it's super impressive.
 
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My vote is for Penn.

1. Your family/support system won't be too far away since both HMS and Penn are in the northeast. It wouldn't be as much distance as, say, California person stuck in the Midwest or east coast.
2. I know 2 people from my school going to Penn, one of them is MTSP and a very close friend of mine, the other was a freshman floormate. Both of them were well-liked and highly respected within my school's community, which seems to be indicative of the class as a whole, as my MTSP friend said she loved meeting all of her future classmates at second look. I think you'd be much happier at Penn because you clicked well with your future classmates as well.
3. Everyone I've talked to about Penn has said nothing but good things about it. I have not heard anyone not praise Penn, but I have heard people not praise HMS. IMO, Penn is a "stronger" medical school overall than HMS. Since both places are basically on par with each other, I think it would do you best to go to the school with the best fit, which I perceive for you to be Penn after reading your pros and cons.
4. Dat Penn matchlist doe. "Holy **** so good" was everyone's impression after seeing it. Even though you said you wanted to match at BWH/MGH, going to Penn would not hinder you, and you'd be able to match into other top-notch places if BWH/MGH didn't work out.

I hope you make the best decision for yourself! I share your sentiment that "It's Harvard" is the absolute dumbest reason to pick HMS; it doesn't mean sh**.
 
You'll be fine either way. I think you should pick Penn for the personal growth. There's a whole world outside Boston, and even though Philly is super close I think it could only help you to spend some time in another place. The fact that you are concerned about matching at a Harvard program from Penn makes me think you need some time outside the Boston bubble.
 
I agree with @WedgeDawg. Your posts indicate a preference for Penn. In addition, you'll have the opportunity to take on those Philly sports fans! I say go to Penn and don't look back!
 
You seem way more excited about Penn. Don't let FOMO with HMS lead you astray.

Cyberdyne 101 said:
In addition, you'll have the opportunity to take on those Philly sports fans!
Click to expand...
Given Philly fans' reputation and Philly's general...lack of success in professional sports, I dunno about that.
 
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I don't think you'd end up regretting your choice either way. A couple things though..

If your support system is in Boston, that would be nice to take advantage of while in school. However, if you're looking for a new place then Philly may be a nice place to get away but still close enough for visits? (I'm not from New England so don't jump on me for lack of geographical knowledge).

I wasn't at the Penn revisit but I would venture to say that there are amazing people at Harvard too. (I wouldn't let that strongly influence my decision)

Also, I don't think that being at Harvard necessarily means you'd have a better shot at matching there when compared to Penn. If you do away rotations at BWH/MGH etc. you will still have the chance to wow them like you would at HMS.

Harvard has better "branding" but how much does this really matter to you ? (sounds like not that much)


I think your decision comes down to things completely non-school related given that both places are off-the-charts awesome and you will do exceptionally well coming from either.

Do you want to stay in Boston another 4 years or do you want to try out Philly?

Disclaimer: I'm on the WL at Penn, (although if i was in your situation I think I would pick Harvard for the sake of boston)
 
Go to Penn! It seems like you strongly prefer it and you would graduate with less debt (although it seems both schools offer decent financial aid packages, but could matter if you have undergrad debt!). Boston isn't that far if you feel like you need to go home for any reason. It's a $10 and 7 hour mega bus ride and you could get work done 🙂

I would choose Penn since I think it's important to leave your comfort zone. Spread your wings and fly! (I did not interview at either school so I have no underlying personal biases.)
 
If you really want to match back to MGH Harvard no question about it. Harvard is EXTREMELY incestuous. It is what it is. Yes people from all sorts of medical schools match to mass gen, but none comes remotely close to Harvard.

If you think you'd be fine not matching into Harvard then Penn seems like a better fit, but honestly Penn isn't the only school with a work hard play hard feel, and they draw from the same pool of top tier applicants (hence you being accepted to both).

The support system in Boston is another huge perk, but my recommendation for Harvard is largely because matching into MGH is really damn hard from any school, except Harvard. If that's your goal, there is no need to handicap yourself going elsewhere imo. I know it seems ridiculous to say that because Penn has a great match list, but Harvard loves people from Harvard, and some doors are closed to all but their own. There's the way the world ought to work, and the way it actually works. Just look at Harvard's 2015 match list. If your goal is MGH then Harvard offers an absolutely massive leg up toward achieving that goal.

If you don't want to match into MGH then penn is a solid alternative.

Edit: I generally advise people not to go to Harvard (because they often have families near their other choice, or hate the cold (and are looking at Stanford)). That being said the absolute #1 legit reason to go to HMS is to go to MGH, the family stuff is just a bonus.
 
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Philly's a great city with a lot to offer. You'll get copious opportunities at Penn. You're not that far away from your support system and could easily spend a weekend at home if you needed it (flights are cheap in advance) and you'd still save money!

I'm not on the HMS waitlist, but I think you should go to Penn. Those mentors you have at MGH/BWH will be able to help you get away rotations there if you want to match at MGH for anything.

Also, you seem to be way more excited about Penn. I think the flip side is that at HMS you'll get stuck between the med school bubble and your old friends bubble and won't meet many people outside of that. In philly, I'm sure you'll be able to expand way more. That's one of the things I've heard from friends in philly med schools. It's a pretty friendly city.
 
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the only thing i would say is not to put too much stock into your perception of the student body at penn vs harvard. 95% of people who get accepted to penn also applied to harvard, and vice versa (you're evidence of this!). it's the same group of people
 
I appreciate what everyone is saying! My only concern is that I feel like my excitement for Penn is coming purely out of the fact that I was able to attend second look but I wasn't for HMS. I had a ton of questions/hesitances about Penn, but they answered them during preview weekend well.

I have a gut feeling that HMS might be the better option for me overall, but I unfortunately haven't had the chance to assuage my fears yet. That said, I did arrange a mini-second look for myself for tomorrow, so that will hopefully bring some clarity to the situation! Thanks again everyone!
 
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tenniseagle92 said:
Hey everyone! I had a thread before comparing three awesome schools (back in the old, shoved aside 2014 School Specific Threads), and due to some awesome advice coupled with a great Preview weekend I ended up choosing Penn. However, I was accepted off of the wait list at HMS this past weekend, and I now I am genuinely very confused about what to do. A quick disclaimer: I know both are amazing schools, and I feel incredibly honored to be in this position. At the start of the cycle, I never could have imagined being in this position...which is why this decision is becoming so tough. Also, @breakintheroof has given me some awesome advice so far, I just want some additional advice (especially from current med students/residents).

Harvard
+++ I've been in Boston my entire life, and my whole support system is here. I have college friends and high school friends all around the city, my family is based here, and my significant other is also here. My boyfriend and I are long-term, but not to the point where I'm sure we're getting married or anything (I know that's often asked in these threads). For the sake of my own sanity, I'm not trying to factor in my relationship much. My family and friends are the bigger anchors I feel holding me down here.
+ I'm slightly sick of Boston, but I do love it as a city (diehard Boston sports fan) and I know how much of a medical mecca it is.
+ Pass/Fail with no AOA appeals to me a lot
+ I have worked at MGH and BWH and have connections there, including one long-term research mentor in a field of interest.
+/- New curriculum (Pathways) seems enticing and I really love the idea of front-loading medical education to be able to focus the last two years (or 19 months, specifically) to do research, electives, etc. to prepare for your residency of choice. That said, it will be the first year of the new curriculum, and we'll be testing it out...that could lead to quite a few bumps in the road.
+ Mentors here have told me that HMS might open some doors that "other schools could not," but I couldn't exactly explain what those doors would be. I honestly don't care at all about prestige, particularly at this level of school. I'm not someone who will get kicks out of saying "I go to Harvard" enough to go...it's just a school, and this process is random enough for me to know not to let my head get too big about it.
+/- Compared to Penn, there will be much less certainty around how this new curriculum will affect board scores/the match. That said, I was planning to try to match to BWH/MGH anyway, and HMS is obviously the best place to go for that.
---I didn't get a chance to go to revisit, so I have no idea what my classmates will be like...and I really loved the kids at Penn. They have the work hard, play hard mentality that got me through college and that I think would be great to have in med school (though obviously more work and less play). The problem is, I just don't know what HMS kids are like...they could be some potential great friends, or I might not click with them. For what it's worth, I know three current HMS students that I get along with well (though I've heard classes always have different "flavors").
--Don't have HMS' financial aid package yet (will update when I do), but my EFC is 0 and family combined income is under $100,000, which says I should get HMS' highest possible package (which will be less than Penn's, as I'll get to below).

Penn
++ The classmates at Penn were awesome. I clicked well with almost everyone I met, and have stayed in touch with 10+ people since revisit.
+ Great financial aid. Scholarship + financial aid = About 4k over full tuition, so I'd be in debt about 18k per year (Harvard's would probably be more like 30k per year).
+ Curriculum is tried and true, with awesome matching and board scores. With my ties to Boston, I think I'd have a solid chance of matching back in Boston.
+ Don't know too much about Philadelphia, but it seems like a cool, fun city. I think I'd have a good four years there.
- Do not like Penn's H/P/F, though I don't think it'll be too significant.
-- No family/friends support in the area, but I'm an outgoing person and would heading to local bars to meet some people my age that were outside of the med school bubble. (if I have time..). Would also either be doing long-distance or breaking up with my bf, who is getting his PhD at Harvard.

Overall, I know I'm incredibly fortunate to be in this position, and some honest introspection has shown me that I prefer Penn slightly as an institution and school, but everything else points HMS. Also, HMS is shrouded in uncertainty, which makes choosing it very unsettling. I didn't meet potential classmates, and I also didn't hear all their (I'm sure very well-rehearsed) spiels about the new curriculum. It feels like a bigger risk academically, and I don't want to go in blindly thinking it'll be fine just because it's HMS.

Lastly, I didn't create a poll because I want to avoid the HMS spam that would invariably happen. I don't care about going to Harvard because "it's Harvard," so that's shouldn't be a reason in my opinion.

You guy have helped me so much throughout this process, and I'm excited to finally be done. Any advice is incredibly appreciated, particularly as I have less than a week to decide. Thank you all in advance 🙂
Click to expand...

Go to Harvard. You're from here and you want to stay here for residency. Unless you REALLY want to see what Philly is like for 4 years (it is a great city, quite different from Boston), you're better off sticking around and going to HMS. Either way you're in a good position, but if the goal is MGH/BWH, you'll have a way better chance if you can do work with attendings and get letters from the people in that program than trying to match as an outsider.
 
I second the post above. Simply rotating for a month (alongside a million other super eager, gunner students) wouldn't come even remotely close to developing professional and personal relationships with faculty over the span of 4 or in the case of a research year, 5 years. If your goal is to match at MGH/BWH, especially if your field if interest is competitive as it is, you should definitely attend HMS.
 
tenniseagle92 said:
The Super Bowl rings make the rationalization process a little easier
Click to expand...

You'd better go to HMS. Given Eagles' fans, you may be more likely to be a patient than a student in Philly. They're nuts.

eagles.jpg
 
First of all, congrats! Just thought I would chime in here for a little about HMS. The interview day was impressive...but more so because it was freaking Harvard. I was actually disappointed with how unwelcoming the day felt (almost every applicant and student I talked to said the same thing), and had pretty serious concerns about attending. However, after visiting second look I was sold. The faculty and support were incredible, but my future classmates were even more incredible. I think that "work hard, play hard" perfectly described current HMS students and the potential students I met during revisit.... Well, with either choice you will be stuck with some truly terrible NFL choices 😉
 
peyton91 said:
You'd better go to HMS. Given Eagles' fans, you may be more likely to be a patient than a student in Philly. They're nuts.

View attachment 191905
Click to expand...
I love how the people in the foreground are just watching the game like nothing is happening. Just another day at an eagles game haha
 
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