Is it worth paying 80k more to go to non-pbl school?

[mrpearce]

Hello. I've been a long time lurker on sdn, but this is my first thread because I need some advice from someone who has been in a similar situation.

I'm trying to decide between going to Touro-NV and Lecom-B. The closest threads I found to my question is the Nova vs Lecom-B thread. My understanding is that Nova is way more established and provide better opportunities (research, rotations, etc.) than Touro-NV, so I'm still undecided.

With regards to PBL vs non-PBL, I think that I will be successful with either curriculum, but I prefer the lecture-based curriculum more (I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, and without a structured curriculum, I'd never stop studying). I saw a PBL session during my interview at Lecom-B and was very impressed but found it to be a little inefficient. I was also given a PBL demo during my interview at Lecom-SH and found it to not be friendly towards non-bio majors, which I am.

I'm from Florida, but location is not important to me. The only thing stopping me from choosing Touro-NV is the tuition, which is 51k vs 29k at Lecom-B. I'm a very frugal person. I worked to put myself through undergrad and graduated debt-free. I'm aware that the difference in loan repayment will only be about 1k if I choose standard 10-year plan (the amount of total repayment works out to be similar with PAYE but you have to pay a huge income tax at year 20). I'm just afraid that if I choose Touro-NV, I'd be thinking about how much more money I'm taking out in loans the entire time I'm in school.

I'm sorry for a long post. I'm just freaking out because I have to make a decision soon. Thank you for your replies in advance!

Edited: I forgot to include that I'm interested in IM sub-specialties.

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[0dee]

You know yourself better than anyone else. If you feel that PBL won't work for you, then go to the school that will increase your maximum potential. Yes money is important but making the best out of your education should matter more. With that being said, I say choose the non PBL school.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Hello. I've been a long time lurker on sdn, but this is my first thread because I need some advice from someone who has been in a similar situation.

I'm trying to decide between going to Touro-NV and Lecom-B. The closest threads I found to my question is the Nova vs Lecom-B thread. My understanding is that Nova is way more established and provide better opportunities (research, rotations, etc.) than Touro-NV, so I'm still undecided.

With regards to PBL vs non-PBL, I think that I will be successful with either curriculum, but I prefer the lecture-based curriculum more (I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, and without a structured curriculum, I'd never stop studying). I saw a PBL session during my interview at Lecom-B and was very impressed but found it to be a little inefficient. I was also given a PBL demo during my interview at Lecom-SH and found it to not be friendly towards non-bio majors, which I am.

I'm from Florida, but location is not important to me. The only thing stopping me from choosing Touro-NV is the tuition, which is 51k vs 29k at Lecom-B. I'm a very frugal person. I worked to put myself through undergrad and graduated debt-free. I'm aware that the difference in loan repayment will only be about 1k if I choose standard 10-year plan (the amount of total repayment works out to be similar with PAYE but you have to pay a huge income tax at year 20). I'm just afraid that if I choose Touro-NV, I'd be thinking about how much more money I'm taking out in loans the entire time I'm in school.

I'm sorry for a long post. I'm just freaking out because I have to make a decision soon. Thank you for your replies in advance!

Edited: I forgot to include that I'm interested in IM sub-specialties.

I think only you can answer that question. Touro Nevada is worth its asking price if you went that route. However I cant tell you how you learn best. I generally don't think LECOM is worth it despite the low tuition due to quality of rotations 3rd and 4th year. I know some people who put together 3rd and 4th year at Touro nv and they have problems also so I don't think Touro Nevada in general is worth it over lecom-b. However if the curriculum suits you much better it is worth it.


If you go to LECOM be prepared to follow rules!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

@j4pac

 

[Mad Jack]

I thought PBL would not be for me. I thought I'd want to go to lectures. That I'd learn so much more in the classroom.

Oh my holy **** was I wrong. Live lecture material is basically worthless. Recorded lectures are often fantastic- double speed them at home, crunch the info, then hit First Aid, Sketchy, and Pathoma to fill in the gaps with all that time you saved. But mandatory lecture is so inefficient and painful I'd probably rather drop out than go to a school with 100% mandatory lecture like LECOM's LDP pathway, ugh...

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I thought PBL would not be for me. I thought I'd want to go to lectures. That I'd learn so much more in the classroom.

Oh my holy **** was I wrong. Live lecture material is basically worthless. Recorded lectures are often fantastic- double speed them at home, crunch the info, then hit First Aid, Sketchy, and Pathoma to fill in the gaps with all that time you saved. But mandatory lecture is so inefficient and painful I'd probably rather drop out than go to a school with 100% mandatory lecture like LECOM's LDP pathway, ugh...

You think PBL is better?

 

[Mad Jack]

You think PBL is better?

If you're going with mandatory lecture versus pure PBL, PBL is the way to go. Personally, I really like my school's hybrid curriculum- cases two days a week, optional lecture most days, can watch the lectures when needed. But if I was given a choice between no lectures at all and mandatory attendance, I'll take the no lectures all day every day.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

If you're going with mandatory lecture versus pure PBL, PBL is the way to go. Personally, I really like my school's hybrid curriculum- cases two days a week, optional lecture most days, can watch the lectures when needed. But if I was given a choice between no lectures at all and mandatory attendance, I'll take the no lectures all day every day.

What about non mandatory lecture versus pure pbl?

 

[Mad Jack]

What about non mandatory lecture versus pure pbl?

Non-mandatory lecture for sure.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Non-mandatory lecture for sure.

I'm kind of curious if I would have liked pbl

 

[mrpearce]

@Tr1LL @DoctorSynthesis Thank you so much for your replies. I'm actually leaning towards Touro-NV, but the cost is keeping me from committing.

@Mad Jack Thank you for your reply also. When I was at Lecom-B, I was actually impressed by the knowledge and discussions by the M1s. However, I felt like the session was somewhat inefficient. During the session, they wrapped up a case and was starting a new one. I saw that everyone had note cards with TONS of words written on them. Then they all stood up, and one guy read off of the note card (it's supposed to be like presenting the case?). After the guy finished reading, everyone sat down and put their note cards away. I couldn't stop thinking about how much time other students who didn't present wasted writing the case down on note cards. During the session, everyone also spent a considerable amount of time flipping through textbooks just to try to assign chapters. It's good to know that you'd choose non-mandatory lecture over pbl.

 

[ortnakas]

I'm in PBL and I like it, but it's definitely not for everyone. If it's not a good fit for you, go with a lecture-based program.

 

[DO2015CA]

I'm with @Mad Jack on thinking I needed lectures as a crutch. It's god awful, but having a didactic curriculum does offer something PBL doesn't and that's targeted power points that tell you what will be on the test. In the beginning you will be confused on PBL as to what is important and what is just unnecessary details. It wouldn't be the pbl vs lectures that should be your choice but rather rotations. I wouldn't want the uncertainty of lecoms. From what I've seen around here (take it with a grain of salt) some of the lecom-B hospitals have cancelled on them, leaving them without rotation spots for their students. I think they're going to send them up north. Also, with nova opening the MD school then that might put even more pressure on rotations in FL. Paired with lecom not paying for rotations leads me to believe that they will be on the losing end of rotation sites.

 

[anktheonc]

I'm with @Mad Jack on thinking I needed lectures as a crutch. It's god awful, but having a didactic curriculum does offer something PBL doesn't and that's targeted power points that tell you what will be on the test. In the beginning you will be confused on PBL as to what is important and what is just unnecessary details. It wouldn't be the pbl vs lectures that should be your choice but rather rotations. I wouldn't want the uncertainty of lecoms. From what I've seen around here (take it with a grain of salt) some of the lecom-B hospitals have cancelled on them, leaving them without rotation spots for their students. I think they're going to send them up north. Also, with nova opening the MD school then that might put even more pressure on rotations in FL. Paired with lecom not paying for rotations leads me to believe that they will be on the losing end of rotation sites.

this is the kicker. You've worked so hard and put so much into getting yourself an acceptance or two. Why would you want to leave anything up to chance about your future?

 

[mrpearce]

Thank you again everyone!

@DO2015CA @anktheonc I think that's what I needed to hear. Thank you so much. I've made up my mind and decided to go with Touro-NV

 

[DO2015CA]

Thank you again everyone!

@DO2015CA @anktheonc I think that's what I needed to hear. Thank you so much. I've made up my mind and decided to go with Touro-NV

Lucky you! Two words.. One name... Dr. Preddy.

 

[bahdahboom]

Hello. I've been a long time lurker on sdn, but this is my first thread because I need some advice from someone who has been in a similar situation.

I'm trying to decide between going to Touro-NV and Lecom-B. The closest threads I found to my question is the Nova vs Lecom-B thread. My understanding is that Nova is way more established and provide better opportunities (research, rotations, etc.) than Touro-NV, so I'm still undecided.

With regards to PBL vs non-PBL, I think that I will be successful with either curriculum, but I prefer the lecture-based curriculum more (I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, and without a structured curriculum, I'd never stop studying). I saw a PBL session during my interview at Lecom-B and was very impressed but found it to be a little inefficient. I was also given a PBL demo during my interview at Lecom-SH and found it to not be friendly towards non-bio majors, which I am.

I'm from Florida, but location is not important to me. The only thing stopping me from choosing Touro-NV is the tuition, which is 51k vs 29k at Lecom-B. I'm a very frugal person. I worked to put myself through undergrad and graduated debt-free. I'm aware that the difference in loan repayment will only be about 1k if I choose standard 10-year plan (the amount of total repayment works out to be similar with PAYE but you have to pay a huge income tax at year 20). I'm just afraid that if I choose Touro-NV, I'd be thinking about how much more money I'm taking out in loans the entire time I'm in school.

I'm sorry for a long post. I'm just freaking out because I have to make a decision soon. Thank you for your replies in advance!

Edited: I forgot to include that I'm interested in IM sub-specialties.

I think it's important to understand how entirely self learning LECOM B's PBL is. It is not PBL incorporated with lectures or notes with guides. It is 100% self directed study with a group. That to me is enough to give me a headache and completely stress me out. I can't afford any additional stress in medical school.

I watched a PBL session in person. A student was discussing his differential diagnoses and explaining each one. He then asked a question to the group, a small detail he forgot the answer to, and then directed his question to the facilitator. The facilitator literally sat there with a smug grin and told him to look it up. That moment I knew I couldn't be there. I may get a better board score (they have one of the top COMLEX scores), but being miserable the entire 4 years to me is not worth it.

That being said, they do have one of the cheapest tuitions out there, but there are reasons: Self directed curriculum plus shaky rotations.

I don't know much about Touro-NY, but be realistic, not idealistic. Do you really see yourself doing PBL when you are a lecture/notes person?

 

[sylvanthus]

Hello. I've been a long time lurker on sdn, but this is my first thread because I need some advice from someone who has been in a similar situation.

I'm trying to decide between going to Touro-NV and Lecom-B. The closest threads I found to my question is the Nova vs Lecom-B thread. My understanding is that Nova is way more established and provide better opportunities (research, rotations, etc.) than Touro-NV, so I'm still undecided.

With regards to PBL vs non-PBL, I think that I will be successful with either curriculum, but I prefer the lecture-based curriculum more (I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, and without a structured curriculum, I'd never stop studying). I saw a PBL session during my interview at Lecom-B and was very impressed but found it to be a little inefficient. I was also given a PBL demo during my interview at Lecom-SH and found it to not be friendly towards non-bio majors, which I am.

I'm from Florida, but location is not important to me. The only thing stopping me from choosing Touro-NV is the tuition, which is 51k vs 29k at Lecom-B. I'm a very frugal person. I worked to put myself through undergrad and graduated debt-free. I'm aware that the difference in loan repayment will only be about 1k if I choose standard 10-year plan (the amount of total repayment works out to be similar with PAYE but you have to pay a huge income tax at year 20). I'm just afraid that if I choose Touro-NV, I'd be thinking about how much more money I'm taking out in loans the entire time I'm in school.

I'm sorry for a long post. I'm just freaking out because I have to make a decision soon. Thank you for your replies in advance!

Edited: I forgot to include that I'm interested in IM sub-specialties.

Go to the cheapest school.

 

[ortnakas]

I think it's important to understand how entirely self learning LECOM B's PBL is. It is not PBL incorporated with lectures or notes with guides. It is 100% self directed study with a group. That to me is enough to give me a headache and completely stress me out. I can't afford any additional stress in medical school.

I watched a PBL session in person. A student was discussing his differential diagnoses and explaining each one. He then asked a question to the group, a small detail he forgot the answer to, and then directed his question to the facilitator. The facilitator literally sat there with a smug grin and told him to look it up. That moment I knew I couldn't be there. I may get a better board score (they have one of the top COMLEX scores), but being miserable the entire 4 years to me is not worth it.

I repeatedly state on these forums that PBL is not for everyone, but I just wanted to address a couple of points here. (I'm not at Bradenton, but I can comment on the curriculum in general).

PBL is "100% self directed study," but other than the ~6 hours a week you're actually in PBL, you can study with whoever you want. Once reading ("final learning issues") are assigned, you can study them alone or with whoever you want. You're not forced to group study, if that's a concern.

I can also add that facilitators just telling us to look things up isn't exactly common; the vast majority are willing to point you in the right direction, especially during first year. The PBL sessions Bradenton has you watch during interviews are of second years, and telling us to "look it up" is pretty much fair game at this point, even if the smug grin isn't warranted. All the facilitators seem to have different styles, too, so you may have run into an unfortunately caustic one.

To address one of OP's comments-- I have several friends who weren't science majors in undergrad, and they adapted to PBL just fine. It might have been a little harder on them in the beginning, but after the initial med school trial by fire adjustment period, they didn't struggle more than anyone else.

That said, I'll reiterate that PBL is not for everyone. If you (or OP, or whoever) are not comfortable with the learning style, or feel like you'd learn better with lectures or study guides, that is 100% understandable-- you'll get no absolutely judgment from me. But I haven't been miserable in PBL, and for me it was a great learning experience and a solid foundation for boards studying, so I don't want people to jump to the conclusion it's going to be terrible for everyone.

 

[sylvanthus]

I'm not even sure why this is a discussuin. Who cares if its PBL, non-pbl, taught by naked instructors from sweden, largely online, whatever, its bloody 80,000 and most medical students teach themselves the first few years. Take the cheaper school.