Is medical school worth it? A physicians perspective.

[occams_razor]

He's actually quite right.

With a professional degree that is 11 years [minimum] in the making post-HS Diploma, or 7 years post-Bachelor's, making only $50,000 post-taxes puts you far behind even the most moderately successful of those employed. Now when you're thinking about the capabilities of those going into medicine, usually those people whom are most devoted, intelligent, and independent, making a salary like that is pretty dismal.

While I'm getting acceptances to medical schools and sealing my fate to hundreds of thousands of more dollars in debt, I have two friends who have already locked in $75,000 pre-tax jobs in a locale that mansions sell in just the $300-500k range. If they were to relocate to New York, they'd likely be making $130-150k starting salary with just a bachelor's. Being in business, and with the more experience they get over the next few years, they will likely be making salaries in specialty range by the time I get out of my residency, yet they will be debt-free and have hundreds of thousands of dollars locked away in savings accruing interest.

I've actually never heard of any physician making $50,000 post-taxes.

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[notbobtrustme]

Just wanted to add that larryboy's assessment is pretty darn spot on. At least, his original post was exactly what I've encountered with my finances as a new attending.

Larryboy was being very generous when he dished out a starting salary of $160,000. I have friends in Pediatrics, for example, who started off $90,000 to $120,000. Ouch. Please keep this in mind. Some RARE individuals in Family Practice had starting salaries in the $240,00 range -- they were in unattractive, rural areas though, but if this is for you, then there you go. I would have probably done this had I gone into primary care.

As far as loans, just to give some perspective, I had no undergrad loans (full scholarship), but I accrued $240,000 in med loans (Subsidized, Unsubsidized, and Perkins). I currently pay $1600/month in loans. It's approximately 25% of my paycheck. It's tough. I'm still living rather inexpensively similar to med school (i.e. not using A/C or heat that much, bicycling to and from work). It does help to live less-than-modestly, yet there are just other little things here and there that you don't think about that cut into your income. For example, I got a $404 bill this morning for professional membership in an organization and a $200 invoice for another organization (yes, these are essentially required in my field or I wouldn't do it). Another example, I was required to take 3 board exams to practice ($1800 each, plus traveling expenses because board certification in my specialty only occurs in FL so you must travel there). Oh, I also need to pay for my 35 annual CME credits that are required to hold onto my board certifications. I also have to budget for furlough days (yes, you read it right), so I'm not really making the salary on the contract that I signed. Obviously, this is not a comprehensive list -- just a very tiny few examples.

Like larryboy, I'm not trying to deter anyone from medicine -- I just wanted to provide some numbers and food for thought for those interested. I think it's good to know what you are potentially getting yourself into, regardless of career choice.

Just curious as to what your specialty is. 6400-8000/month (eg 20-25% of your loan payment) seems really low, even for some of the lower paying specialties.

 

[occams_razor]

You don't need an accountant. All you need is Paycheck City.



It's actually ~27.5%, which leaves a single person with 116K after federal/payroll taxes, not the 100K you had previously stated. That is assuming zero deductions. Forgive me, but an error of $1,333/month in post-tax income is not insignificant in these calculations.

Also, 160K may be a good estimate of the staring salary, but most physicians see their incomes creep up significantly after 3-5 years of practice. You should take that into account.

And don't forget the long-term effects of inflation.

I think 160k is a conservative estimate, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics/U.S. Department of Labor, physicians practicing primary care received total median annual compensation of $202,392
Median income for Family practice (without obstetrics) is $189,402

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5

 

[Dawn1980]

Just curious as to what your specialty is. 6400-8000/month (eg 20-25% of your loan payment) seems really low, even for some of the lower paying specialties.

I am a forensic pathologist.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You guys fail at reading comprehension. Go back and read OP's post (or even mine). OP's calculations of $50,000/year to live off of already took out the money for loan payments and taxes (both federal and state). So, no, that $50,000 is not the same as the family earning $50,000 pre-tax. It is, in fact, $50,000 of net income. Yes, there will be costs for car payments, mortgage, etc. but you have control over that and thus those things can be as expensive or cheap as you make them. As for college, there are scholarships and state schools for a reason.

I also find it funny how out of touch you guys are in regards to income. $50,000/year of post-tax, post-loan payment income is nothing to sneeze at. I grew up in a family (2 kids) making $50,000 per year pre-tax and we could still afford a nice three story house in the suburbs, electronic gadgets, vacations, and private school (hey wait a sec, isn't that the description I gave earlier? Oh gee what a coincidence!) The same was true for virtually everyone else I knew (actually, no it wasn't; most people I knew at school made due with a lot less and were hardly poor). If you think you need a six figure income just to have a decent lifestyle then you're really out of touch.

Now obviously if you live in a city like NYC then $50,000k/year to live off of won't cut it, but if you made the decision to go live in a big city in such a situation then you're either an idiot or someone who cares more about some greater purpose (ex: caring for underserved inner city populations) than money.

I'd also like to point out that this thread is only about PCPs. As we all know, PCP is one of the lowest paid specialties. If you're going into PCP for the money, well...yeah...

I think his calculations are actually wrong personally and you'll be making more like 70K post-tax and repayments (depending on where you live maybe more). However, you obviously didn't read my post. If you had a guy with a post tax income of 50K and a guy with a pre-tax income of 50K who both have 3 kids, they both have the SAME FINAL INCOME. Go put the numbers into turbotax for a family making 50K with 3 kids under 17 and tell me I'm wrong. In fact, the family with 50K pre-tax income gets a federal TAX REFUND of $1,236. Even if they get hit with some state taxes they can basically pay it off for the most part with the refund.

This is assuming no mortgage for either of them but that doesn't matter unless you choose to itemize deductions which will make this way more complicated than I'm willing to calculate here.

 

[Dawn1980]

Also, for what it's worth, my salary is slightly higher than the average starting forensic pathologist.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I think 160k is a conservative estimate, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics/U.S. Department of Labor, physicians practicing primary care received total median annual compensation of $202,392
Median income for Family practice (without obstetrics) is $189,402

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5

Those are MGMA numbers. MGMA numbers tend to run pretty high.

 

[Frazier]

I live in Boston, eat out almost once a day, and I don't spend 25k per year. This number is HUGE, and would reflect irresponsible spending.

That is excellent! However, unfortunately, your response means absolutely nothing in regards to the context of which I was replying...

So, again, I repeat:

Lol at people thinking 25k in coa automatically equates to "living in a mansion and eating lobster and crab every night".

 

[occams_razor]

I am a forensic pathologist.

if you are comfortable and don't mind sharing, could you tell us what your net income is after taxes and the $240k loan payments? I will probably end up taking out that much in loans if I don't get into a state school that's why I'm curious. I completely understand if you're not comfortable posting that info though

 

[notbobtrustme]

I am a forensic pathologist.

welp, crossing that one off the list.

 

[allcle4r]

Does any of this matter if you match, say, rads or ophtho?

 

[Dawn1980]

Hi swimmer125,

You are right. I'm uncomfortable posting that detail of information. I was even uncomfortable posting the other numbers I did, but I think it's extremely important to get at least some grasp as a premed what you may be paying in the future. To "sort of" answer your question though, if you take my $1600/month loan payment and multiply that by 4, then you are in my ballpark salary AFTER taxes but NOT AFTER loans. As mentioned, it's just a ballpark.

Having said that, I vote for in-state school all the way.

 

[circulus vitios]

Does any of this matter if you match, say, rads or ophtho?

Not really but that's like saying "does any of this matter if I win the lottery?"

 

[Dawn1980]

welp, crossing that one off the list.

I totally understand it's not for everybody. Personally, I get to do "surgery" and have my 40-hour work week. You will come to value your free time as your medical career progresses -- I strongly assure you.

 

[Fivo]

Not really but that's like saying "does any of this matter if I win the lottery?"

Bro, you keep posting in here like you know you're going to make chump change for a living as doc, being in poverty. In most every thread you're in, you cry and complain about having to volunteer or do anything remotely connected to working in a hospital and with patients. You haven't even applied to medical school yet. You're at a point where you can pretty much do what you want. After all of your complaining and supposed realistic view of the medical profession, why are you still pursuing it? You are seriously on par to be the next Nilf (if you even make it that far) and you don't even know it.

 

[allcle4r]

Not really but that's like saying "does any of this matter if I win the lottery?"

I'm pretty sure there are more more med students who match rads or ophtho than lottery winners.

 

[Nuel]

I think the days of physicians making big bucks are gone, and it's going to get worse until the market crashes and the economic structure will need reconstruction. I was talking to family friend (a physican) who said his physician relative can't afford to buy a house on her $130K income due to her student loans. Her husband also makes about $60K. It's much better to get a PhD in economics/business/finance these days.

 

[Gut Shot]

I am a forensic pathologist.

Wow, and the county (or whomever your employer is) doesn't even pick up your professional dues and CME? That's quite unusual, and not in a good way.

Do you have a pension?

 

[circulus vitios]

Bro, you keep posting in here like you know you're going to make chump change for a living as doc, being in poverty. In most every thread you're in, you cry and complain about having to volunteer or do anything remotely connected to working in a hospital and with patients. You haven't even applied to medical school yet. You're at a point where you can pretty much do what you want. After all of your complaining and supposed realistic view of the medical profession, why are you still pursuing it? You are seriously on par to be the next Nilf (if you even make it that far) and you don't even know it.

I want to be a physician because it's a cool job. In the worst case scenario I look at it like this: if you make smart choices and you hate your job, well, at least you have money.

It's irritating to listen to pre-meds who spout off "I don't care about money." Great. Go ahead and take out $320,000 in loans so you can go to the school that fits you the best and makes you happiest. Go ahead and train to be a primary care physician, too. I can't wait to see the altruism fade away and you're left with absolutely nothing: no desire to help people and because of your poor choices, no money.

I'm pretty sure there are more more med students who match rads or ophtho than lottery winners.

You're assuming that you actually like rads or optho, have the step I score/pre-clinical grades/letters of recommendation/connections/etc. to match, and that you actually match.

 

[Dawn1980]

Wow, and the county (or whomever your employer is) doesn't even pick up your professional dues and CME? That's quite unusual, and not in a good way.

Do you have a pension?

Most places (public or private) do not cover your professional dues and CME. I've never heard of it. Again, I can only speak for my specialty.

Pension -- Yes. A rather good one.

Loan Forgiveness -- I'm currently in the application process as this is one of the few subspecialties that qualifies. This may be an option for some of you.


Good luck to all of you as you make the decision of medicine as a career. It is rewarding -- however (you know there's always a caveat), you will most likely financially and emotionally put more into it than you will get out of it. This is the common complaint around my medical circle of friends (anesthesia, peds, rads, path). Good luck and good fortune!

 

[ExtremeTruth]

Let's say cost is not an issue then can you say it it would be 100% worth it ? Personally I'm in it cause I can't see myself doing anything else but at the same time I have no problem with the tuition.

 

[allcle4r]

You're assuming that you actually like rads or optho, have the step I score/pre-clinical grades/letters of recommendation/connections/etc. to match, and that you actually match.

My point is, there are ways to avoid the "predicament" outlined in OP. It's not hopeless.

 

[Fivo]

Let's say cost is not an issue then can you say it it would be 100% worth it ? Personally I'm in it cause I can't see myself doing anything else but at the same time I have no problem with the tuition.

Strong pic brah

 

[ExtremeTruth]

Strong pic brah

Haha I don't even know why that happened

 

[Praefectus]

I live in Boston, eat out almost once a day, and I don't spend 25k per year. This number is HUGE, and would reflect irresponsible spending.

I expect my med school spending to stay in line with my college spending, which is roughly $5-6k a year for an apartment, utilities, gas, and groceries. I could be wrong, but last time I checked I don't spend $20k on vacations over the course of a year.

 

[circulus vitios]

I expect my med school spending to stay in line with my college spending, which is roughly $5-6k a year for an apartment, utilities, gas, and groceries. I could be wrong, but last time I checked I don't spend $20k on vacations over the course of a year.

Where do you live where you can spend $500 a month on rent, utilities, gas, and groceries?

 

[Frazier]

I expect my med school spending to stay in line with my college spending, which is roughly $5-6k a year for an apartment, utilities, gas, and groceries. I could be wrong, but last time I checked I don't spend $20k on vacations over the course of a year.

...so you plan on living on ~$5500 (ie, 460/month), all-inclusive, per year, for the majority of your twenties? Do you live with your parents?

I don't see how that budget is possible for an independent person even in the cheapest of regions.

With a budget like that, I'm positive you don't purchase much fruits and vegetables for groceries. Let alone that for $150 in rent your living conditions much be. Well... I'm sorry.

 

[HughMyron]

Hmm...it is the equivalent of a $70,000 a year job (pre-taxes). I hardly consider that NOTHING. I think 99% of people on "planet" Earth would be happy with that. Is it what everyone hopes for after all the hard work required becoming a physician? No. There are a few things you can do to make sure these (overly pessimistic IMO) numbers don't become a reality.

1. Go to your state school. MD=MD=MD. For most people this is the cheapest option and your education will be widely the same as the expensive private schools.

2. Work your butt off to get best board scores and clinical grades possible, and then best residency possible. However pick the specialty where you could be happy making sub-6-figures (gross). I would rather be a happy PC doc than an unhappy, more compensated specialist.

3. Live like a pauper during medical school, residency, and as a young doctor. There is no reason to buy a house or a new car as soon as you get your first pay-check. Live the same life-style you did as a student for a couple more years and devote more/most of your money to loan repayments.

I think a lot of people expect being a doctor to suddenly open up a plethora of riches along with a feeling of importance/meaning to life. It is a great field and I love what I went into. But I am realistic that medicine is a job (and a high calling IMO but nevertheless still a job). I would say that most Americans feel they should be paid more for their work. However, if you want to get compensated you have to hustle.

I'm trying to go to my state school, but it may not be an option for everyone

And one does not simply get the best board scores possible, otherwise everyone would do Derm or NeuSu.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Where do you live where you can spend $500 a month on rent, utilities, gas, and groceries?

I would be curious about this as well... I live in a suburban area (<50,000 in my "city") and I pay >$5,000 on rent alone for a 1 bed 1 bath apartment. I find it hard to believe that a grown human's tab for rent+utilities+groceries can be less than 5 grand.

 

[Frazier]

I would be curious about this as well... I live in a suburban area ($5,000 on rent alone for a 1 bed 1 bath apartment. I find it hard to believe that a grown human's tab for rent+utilities+groceries can be less than 5 grand.

Don't forget gas, man...that was included too.

Oh, one full tank of gas is 50 bucks? No worries that's 1/10 of my life's budget -- for the entire year.

 

[HughMyron]

Sorry to argue by quoting myself, but I do understand that, and I've said as much already. I was responding to a specific statement that was hilariously exaggerated.

I don't have a whole ton to add to the real debate here; I've lived with a whole spectrum of income levels, from food stamps to upper middle class, many of my college friends were just disgustingly loaded, and I'm pretty comfortable with letting salary concerns take a back seat.

More money is better than less money, but as long as I don't end up with NO money, I'll be fine. Different people are comfortable with different levels I'm not gonna try to convince you that $50k take-home would be enough for you.

The money's not for me you derpbag, I could live without much money for a very long time. Its for my family. I want my kids to go to a good school, I want us to go to London for a vacation, I want us to help them go to college, and I want to make sure they don't worry about what to eat. And I can't do that on 50K.

 

[circulus vitios]

The money's not for me you derpbag, I could live without much money for a very long time. Its for my family. I want my kids to go to a good school, I want us to go to London for a vacation, I want us to help them go to college, and I want to make sure they don't worry about what to eat. And I can't do that on 50K.

The $50k figure is kind of unrealistic. You'll take home a lot more than $50k if you make good decisions. Go to a cheap medical school, try your hardest to match into a high-paying specialty, run some numbers on IBR repayment vs aggressive repayment after residency, etc.

 

[chipper10]

heres an interesting video of the economics behind becoming a physician

https://www.aamc.org/video/first/mdeconomics.htm

 

[occams_razor]

Hi swimmer125,

You are right. I'm uncomfortable posting that detail of information. I was even uncomfortable posting the other numbers I did, but I think it's extremely important to get at least some grasp as a premed what you may be paying in the future. To "sort of" answer your question though, if you take my $1600/month loan payment and multiply that by 4, then you are in my ballpark salary AFTER taxes but NOT AFTER loans. As mentioned, it's just a ballpark.

Having said that, I vote for in-state school all the way.

thanks for your responses, as a pre-med it is very helpful to hear all this!

Do you think that it would be worth it for someone to take a gap year or 2 to beef up their application (whether it be taking some post-bacc courses to increase GPA, or doing something impressive like research or more clinical volunteer work) to increase the chance of getting into a state school?

 

[Frazier]

Do you think that it would be worth it for someone to take a gap year or 2 to beef up their application (whether it be taking some post-bacc courses to increase GPA, or doing something impressive like research or more clinical volunteer work) to increase the chance of getting into a state school?

2-year "gap year" solely in aim of getting into a state school?

...Without hard debt numbers available, there is a thing called "opportunity cost" that likely throws a wrench into your, otherwise reasonable, idea...

 

[Fivo]

thanks for your responses, as a pre-med it is very helpful to hear all this!

Do you think that it would be worth it for someone to take a gap year or 2 to beef up their application (whether it be taking some post-bacc courses to increase GPA, or doing something impressive like research or more clinical volunteer work) to increase the chance of getting into a state school?

Aside from wanting to have a break before applying, people take gap years (especially 2 gap years) to get into top schools, not state schools.

 

[Praefectus]

Where do you live where you can spend $500 a month on rent, utilities, gas, and groceries?

This might sound a little dumb, but I estimated that just from the school year (not including summers). I'm not at 100% today haha

...so you plan on living on ~$5500 (ie, 460/month), all-inclusive, per year, for the majority of your twenties? Do you live with your parents?

I don't see how that budget is possible for an independent person even in the cheapest of regions.

With a budget like that, I'm positive you don't purchase much fruits and vegetables for groceries. Let alone that for $150 in rent your living conditions much be. Well... I'm sorry.

I live in a 4br/2.5ba in a Southern college town. I spend about $120/month on groceries and I have a dinner rotation going with my roommates and my gf. When you buy food in bulk, the only things that you buy every week are fresh fruits/veggies and any pantry/frozen items you're running low on. Like I said before, I forgot to extrapolate my expenses for summer costs.

 

[HuskerHopefulMD]

I would be curious about this as well... I live in a suburban area (<50,000 in my "city") and I pay >$5,000 on rent alone for a 1 bed 1 bath apartment. I find it hard to believe that a grown human's tab for rent+utilities+groceries can be less than 5 grand.

I attended school in the Midwest, in a city with >500,000 people and I'm probably not too far off of this. 5k-7.5k a year I would say for me.

 

[TipToad]

This is the scariest thread.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I think the days of physicians making big bucks are gone, and it's going to get worse until the market crashes and the economic structure will need reconstruction. I was talking to family friend (a physican) who said his physician relative can't afford to buy a house on her $130K income due to her student loans. Her husband also makes about $60K. It's much better to get a PhD in economics/business/finance these days.

Okay, it's not all gloom and doom.

First off, specialty pay is still extremely lucrative and more than off-sets the student loans you'll take out.

As per Medscape, here are the top earners:

Radiology
Ortho
Cards
Gas
Uro
GI

All of those are over 300k. Yes, they are competitive (although radiology and anesthesiology has been declining over the years). Other reports can peg certain specialties well into the 400k range (MGMA).

Does it make financial sense to go 200k+ into debt and then pursue a career in peds/family medicine/internal medicine (~160k/year, give or take)? Most likely no. But this notion that physicians are doomed to a life of poverty is missing the point. The point isn't that physicians will be poor, it's that primary care physicians are going the way of the dinosaur due to the way reimbursements are paid out.

 

[Geebeejay]

That is excellent! However, unfortunately, your response means absolutely nothing in regards to the context of which I was replying...

So, again, I repeat:

Lol at people thinking 25k in coa automatically equates to "living in a mansion and eating lobster and crab every night".

I actually wasn't responding to your specific post (can't say I read it at all actually), but I think I understand your sentiment. I still believe if you're spending more than 25k per year as a med student, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Osteoth]

I'm going into medicine for reasons other than finances.

I still want to make more than 50K/year.


Its much too late for me to back out now, but medicine is looking like a truly horrible place to be. The time I'm not studying, I spend it wishing that I would have done CompSci.

But really though

 

[HughMyron]

Okay, it's not all gloom and doom.

First off, specialty pay is still extremely lucrative and more than off-sets the student loans you'll take out.

As per Medscape, here are the top earners:

Radiology
Ortho
Cards
Gas
Uro
GI

All of those are over 300k. Yes, they are competitive (although radiology and anesthesiology has been declining over the years). Other reports can peg certain specialties well into the 400k range (MGMA).

Does it make financial sense to go 200k+ into debt and then pursue a career in peds/family medicine/internal medicine (~160k/year, give or take)? Most likely no. But this notion that physicians are doomed to a life of poverty is missing the point. The point isn't that physicians will be poor, it's that primary care physicians are going the way of the dinosaur due to the way reimbursements are paid out.

But reimbursement for all those fields is expected to decline too. I've heard some people say that no physician will make over 250K/year soon.

 

[Renaissance Man]

I'm trying to go to my state school, but it may not be an option for everyone

And one does not simply get the best board scores possible, otherwise everyone would do Derm or NeuSu.

I misspoke, "best scores possible for you." But from someone that is actually in medical school...even given a killer Step 1 score, not everyone, not even a majority want to do dermatology or neurosurgery (especially not neurosurgery).

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I misspoke, "best scores possible for you." But from someone that is actually in medical school...even given a killer Step 1 score, not everyone, not even a majority want to do dermatology or neurosurgery (especially not neurosurgery).

For serious. Full body skin exam? No thanks.

 

[thecgrblue]

Interest payments on student loans are tax deductible.

Your numbers are very back of the envelope. I appreciate the gesture, but an argument of worth based solely on financials deserves a much more complex breakdown.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Interest payments on student loans are tax deductible.

Your numbers are very back of the envelope. I appreciate the gesture, but an argument of worth based solely on financials deserves a much more complex breakdown.

Yeah and limit is 75K filing single or 150K filing jointly so noooope. Not to mention the deduction tops off at $2500 a year...doesn't really make much of a dent anyway.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Agreed!

 

[red7]

Some cities have extremely expensive housing which can easily be $1200-1500 a month. I'm sorry to let you know not everyone lives in Alabama where you can get a single bedroom apartment for 600 bucks. You also have to pay for car insurance, car payments, food, health insurance, credit card bills you previously had, maintenance of property and vehicles, laundry, GAS!!!! and the bills keep going on..... Putting all of that together you could easily spend $2200 a month without a problem. You really need to get a reality check before you make ridiculous comments.

I live in a great neighborhood in Chicago, about 20 min. train ride from the Northwestern medical campus (which is basically downtown) for $400/month. No car necessary, food+entertainment for me is $300-400/month. I'm not saying it's that cheap for everyone, but it's not that difficult to find reasonable housing in most major cities. Having roommates is important though - 1 bedroom = money drain. As for NY, I thought that most schools in the city have subsidized student housing so you still come in under $1000/month. Don't know about the west coast though, I know it's pretty expensive.

Agree though that costs like health insurance, credit card debt, etc can add up - for most people though, you just need to be careful and live within your means.

 

[Nuel]

I wouldn't count on specialists' pay being that high in the future. By any measure, incomes for specialists, while still ok, have been dropping since the 1990s in real dollars while costs have been escalating.

Now more than ever, money is becoming a poor reason to pursue medicine, and I think time will make that conclusion even stronger and apparent. I have a 40% partial scholarship, and I have decided to live cheap, marry a working wife, and try to pay down the debt as fast as possible.

Thank God I don't have prior student debt as opposed to some of my classmates with $50K-$100K in loans already. This whole system is unsustainable, and one day it will come crashing unless we reconstruct our financial programs.

Okay, it's not all gloom and doom.

First off, specialty pay is still extremely lucrative and more than off-sets the student loans you'll take out.

As per Medscape, here are the top earners:

Radiology
Ortho
Cards
Gas
Uro
GI

All of those are over 300k. Yes, they are competitive (although radiology and anesthesiology has been declining over the years). Other reports can peg certain specialties well into the 400k range (MGMA).

Does it make financial sense to go 200k+ into debt and then pursue a career in peds/family medicine/internal medicine (~160k/year, give or take)? Most likely no. But this notion that physicians are doomed to a life of poverty is missing the point. The point isn't that physicians will be poor, it's that primary care physicians are going the way of the dinosaur due to the way reimbursements are paid out.