Is Organic Ruining My Chances for Vet School? Do I Take The Fail or a W?

[npag456]

I went to SUNY Oswego for 2 years as a Zoology major, and I have transferred to SUNY Stony Brook in Fall 2016. Since Stony Brook only accepts C and higher, my organic chemistry 2 grade did not get transferred over. So, as a result, I am retaking it and struggling very badly. Here are my chem grades:

Oswego:
Overall GPA: 2.95

• Gen Chem 1: B-
• Gen Chem 2: B
• Organic Chemistry: B-
• Organic Chemistry Lab: B+
• Organic Chemistry 2: C-
• Organic Chemistry 2 Lab: B

Stony Brook:
Overall GPA: 3.25

• Organic Chemistry 2: Currently failing (got a 31 on my first test ). Not grasping any concepts no matter how long I spend doing practice problems with TA's.

I know I have performed sub-par with my chemistry grades, which can be seen because I have received B's throughout my college career. I really can't afford to fail this organic chemistry 2 class. I am considering withdrawing from my course before it is too late, and then retaking organic chemistry 2 at a community college near me during the summer where the course work won't be as difficult.

My question is, would it look worse to fail the class, get it factored into my gpa and then retake the class? Or would it look worse to take a W, but do good in the class at a community college?

Foot note: At my college, they do not replace my grade if I repeat a course. For example, If I get a C-, then somehow retake it and get an A, they average the 2 together and give me a B.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Hopeful_DVM]

Obviously it is going to be worse to fail the course because an F has an eternal impact on your gpa while a W does not. Keep in mind that only one F or D will take a serious toll on your GPA that is extremely difficult to recover from.

 

[Shelby1207]

You should check with your school and see how retaking a course is calculated into your GPA. Some schools will completely erase the old grade and replace it with the new one after you retake it. Other schools will average the two grades together and make the appropriate adjustment on your transcript. The university I attended for undergrad completely replaces the old grade when you retake a class, but it HAS to be before you graduate. Also, they would not replace the grade for a class if the original status was withdrawn. I'm sure all schools are different, but I went through this struggle with Biochem.

 

[Shelby1207]

You should check with your school and see how retaking a course is calculated into your GPA. Some schools will completely erase the old grade and replace it with the new one after you retake it. Other schools will average the two grades together and make the appropriate adjustment on your transcript. The university I attended for undergrad completely replaces the old grade when you retake a class, but it HAS to be before you graduate. Also, they would not replace the grade for a class if the original status was withdrawn. I'm sure all schools are different, but I went through this struggle with Biochem.

Ignore me, I just noticed you said your school won't replace the grade.

 

[npag456]

It's okay! Thanks for the advice still

 

[npag456]

Obviously it is going to be worse to fail the course because an F has an eternal impact on your gpa while a W does not. Keep in mind that only one F or D will take a serious toll on your GPA that is extremely difficult to recover from.

Yeah that is what I am worried about. A 3.25 isn't that great and I want to bring it up. But I am doing not so good in my other classes because I spend all my time trying to improve on my orgo 2 which is sort of a lost cause at this point. My thought process is that it might be better to take a W, get my other class grades up to improve my gpa, then take orgo 2 at a community college where I will do better because I can just stress about that class and not other ones too.

 

[deleted676737]

It'd look much worse to fail the class than it would to drop and retake down the line. Your GPA is also already a little on the low end and an F would simply cause even more damage, especially because most vet schools (and VMCAS itself iirc) do not utilize grade replacement in their academic evaluations. Take the W.

 

[TrashPanda]

Others have already answered your question about the F vs. W but I want to address a few things:

I am considering withdrawing from my course before it is too late, and then retaking organic chemistry 2 at a community college near me during the summer where the course work won't be as difficult.

Don't assume Organic II will be easier at a community college. It might be, or it might not. You'll still be learning the same material and using the same/similar textbook. A lot will also depend on the quality and teaching style of the professor.

Another thing to consider is that although you'll only have one class to focus on, it will be much faster paced. Most summer classes are 8 weeks, so twice as fast as what you're doing now (some are 12 weeks but that's still quite a bit faster). This means you'll need to pick up concepts more quickly and also that by the time you get your first exam or two back, it might be too late to drop.

Also don't forget that in vet school, retaking classes, taking one class at a time, and taking classes someplace "easier" will not be possible. You will be taking multiple difficult science classes every single semester.

I'm not saying any of this to discourage you. Many vet schools include all classes you've ever taken, but some only look at your most recent semesters or replace grades. My transcript was less than perfect (plenty of Bs, Cs, and Ws) and I was accepted. I also took some time after college to take more classes, really work on my study skills and 1) figure out why I hadn't done so well before and 2) fix those issues. If you bring your grades up you can definitely still be accepted, but I strongly encourage you to figure out what's going on with your grades and fix those issues before applying using whatever resources are available (tutors, professors' office hours, etc.) Best of luck!

 

[battie]

I was too proud to drop organic when I took it and got an F. Took out the following summer for a B. Had to go through three application cycles cause I kept getting wait listed. I always wonder if my wait list position would have been an acceptance had I just taken the W.

With that being said, it might help us to steer you if you give since info in the what are my chances thread. It may be that you just have to work harder in chemistry. Or you may need to re-evaluate how you study overall. A 3.25 will make getting in harder on you than it needs to be

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Always take a W over an F. A single W (or two...just don't make it a super common occurrence) is a lot easier for adcoms to look past than a F (especially because the later drastically affects your GPA and the former doesn't touch it). I had one W on my transcripts, got into my top choice school, and no one ever asked me about it (ya know, for whatever that is worth).

Orgo II is not an easy class, but I definitely think you need to reevaluate how you are studying before you retake.

 

[Lupin21]

I went to SUNY Oswego for 2 years as a Zoology major, and I have transferred to SUNY Stony Brook in Fall 2016. Since Stony Brook only accepts C and higher, my organic chemistry 2 grade did not get transferred over. So, as a result, I am retaking it and struggling very badly. Here are my chem grades:

Oswego:
Overall GPA: 2.95

• Gen Chem 1: B-
• Gen Chem 2: B
• Organic Chemistry: B-
• Organic Chemistry Lab: B+
• Organic Chemistry 2: C-
• Organic Chemistry 2 Lab: B

Stony Brook:
Overall GPA: 3.25

• Organic Chemistry 2: Currently failing (got a 31 on my first test ). Not grasping any concepts no matter how long I spend doing practice problems with TA's.

I know I have performed sub-par with my chemistry grades, which can be seen because I have received B's throughout my college career. I really can't afford to fail this organic chemistry 2 class. I am considering withdrawing from my course before it is too late, and then retaking organic chemistry 2 at a community college near me during the summer where the course work won't be as difficult.

My question is, would it look worse to fail the class, get it factored into my gpa and then retake the class? Or would it look worse to take a W, but do good in the class at a community college?

Foot note: At my college, they do not replace my grade if I repeat a course. For example, If I get a C-, then somehow retake it and get an A, they average the 2 together and give me a B.

Something else to consider is that some schools require upper division courses to be taken at 4 year university. Check with the schools you will be applying to for credits that cannot be taken at two-year/ community college.

 

[npag456]

Something else to consider is that some schools require upper division courses to be taken at 4 year university. Check with the schools you will be applying to for credits that cannot be taken at two-year/ community college.

I haven't even thought of that, thank you for bringing this up!

 

[npag456]

I was too proud to drop organic when I took it and got an F. Took out the following summer for a B. Had to go through three application cycles cause I kept getting wait listed. I always wonder if my wait list position would have been an acceptance had I just taken the W.

With that being said, it might help us to steer you if you give since info in the what are my chances thread. It may be that you just have to work harder in chemistry. Or you may need to re-evaluate how you study overall. A 3.25 will make getting in harder on you than it needs to be

Yeah I will get to doing that, I am curious how I stand with my chances anyway. Yeah my brother is a chemistry genius and he keeps telling me I will "eventually get the hang of it" but honestly I have been going to my TA's and doing the homework and practice problems and nothing is sticking. Makes me wonder if the W is worth it.

 

[npag456]

Others have already answered your question about the F vs. W but I want to address a few things:



Don't assume Organic II will be easier at a community college. It might be, or it might not. You'll still be learning the same material and using the same/similar textbook. A lot will also depend on the quality and teaching style of the professor.

Another thing to consider is that although you'll only have one class to focus on, it will be much faster paced. Most summer classes are 8 weeks, so twice as fast as what you're doing now (some are 12 weeks but that's still quite a bit faster). This means you'll need to pick up concepts more quickly and also that by the time you get your first exam or two back, it might be too late to drop.

Also don't forget that in vet school, retaking classes, taking one class at a time, and taking classes someplace "easier" will not be possible. You will be taking multiple difficult science classes every single semester.

I'm not saying any of this to discourage you. Many vet schools include all classes you've ever taken, but some only look at your most recent semesters or replace grades. My transcript was less than perfect (plenty of Bs, Cs, and Ws) and I was accepted. I also took some time after college to take more classes, really work on my study skills and 1) figure out why I hadn't done so well before and 2) fix those issues. If you bring your grades up you can definitely still be accepted, but I strongly encourage you to figure out what's going on with your grades and fix those issues before applying using whatever resources are available (tutors, professors' office hours, etc.) Best of luck!

I am by no means trying to downplay the rigor of community colleges if that is what you are thinking. I apologize if I am coming off that way. The reason why I think it would be easier is because it would be my only class I could focus on. But you do have a point that it will be similar material, just taught at a faster pace.
My only thing I want to explain is this: When I took Orgo 2 at Oswego, it was MUCH less rigorous material than what I am being expected to know at Stony Brook for the same class. I did not do so well at Oswego because I was stubborn and took a lot of major classes at the same time that I definitely could have taken at a later point and gained a better grade in.

I guess what I am getting at is that while I understand some basics of orgo 2, I am just not comprehending it at the Stony Brook level. I go to my Chemistry Learning Center and talk with TA's for hours a day (literally, I will be there for around 5 hours 2 times a week). I have 3, 10 question home works due MWF, a 20 question pre-workshop quiz every W, and then an in workshop quiz (similar question number) on W. I attend the lecture and I re-watch the lectures. I really don't know how much more I can do.

If anyone has any tips I would love to hear some because I really just want to make myself as competitive as possible!

 

[LetItSnow]

Once you get this whole Organic Chem thing figured out - and I'm in the "take the W over the F" crowd - you need to get some perspective on the bigger picture: Your GPA is low, you need to do better, and you CAN do better.

Figure out why your grades are sub-par. If you're serious about vet school, you want to improve now rather than squeak your way into vet school and then be in over your head.

I know that sounds harsh. It's meant as honest feedback. I'm sure you can do it. But do yourself a favor and get serious about your grades.

 

[LabLuv004]

So I failed (well a D+) orgo 2 once and took a W in in the semester before and I would 100% agree the W is way better, not just for your GPA due to that class but for all the others. The semester I failed orgo 2 I did worse in the other classes because I was so stressed about orgo. I know in vet school you won't have the luxury of taking one 'hard' class at a time, but right now you do! Take advantage of it and give yourself time to muddle through.

I scraped by on the third attempt, and I know I'm not alone. When I was at an interview I used orgo as an example of a time I failed at something and the interviewer started laughing hysterically. Apparently she had interviewed 12 people that day and 10 used orgo as an example. Also interview advice: don't use orgo for that question if you want to stand out

 

[Tulojow]

I agree with much of what has been said here, but wanted to add in a related thought. I completely agree that the professor/school can make a huge difference in a subject - especially when it comes to OChem. I took one semester about a decade ago and got a C+. So, not a fail grade but it was a disappointment (I'd easily aced inorganic). Part of it was the instructor - he seemed bored and uncommitted to the material. Part of it was the circumstance (it was one of a few classes that was impacted by Hurricane Katrina). I retook it when I returned to the prevet path and not only faired better, but surprised myself by enjoying the class. That I owe completely to the instructor.

So, it is possible that a different school and instructor may make a significant difference. However, if you do go that route, I would recommend connecting with someone at the new school and taking a look at their course information and notes from OChem 1. While the material covered in the first year of OChem should be the same, the order the material is presented may not be. Both of my instructors took very different approaches to the material and introduced concepts in different orders. It would be a shame to invest more money into a new class that may be taught in a more student-friendly way only to not do well simply because you didn't cover what they assume you covered in OChem 1.

 

[skyyy]

Hi... I hear Organic Chemistry is hard, yet I am trying to prevent myself from having a gap year when I apply to vet school. Has anyone taken Organic Chemistry 1 in summer A and Organic Chemistry in summer B? If I do this I only plan to take this class only, plus organic chemistry lab.

 

[RadagastTheBrown]

I failed Anatomy and Physiology II once (after earning an A in A&P I!), then withdrew my second attempt as I was heading toward another failing grade. Retook it yet again, and got a B. And I got into vet school this year, so it is possible to recover!
I will say, though, that retaking it at a community college did not make the material any easier.
Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using SDN mobile

 

[ResoluteMike]

I would recommend checking around at different schools. There was a huge difference in the quality of the chemistry program between the 3 different schools I attended for undergrad. If I had taken it at the college I graduated from, I would have failed. I helped TA organic after completing the classes at a different college and it was very clear that UNO's program would not have been a good fit for me.

I also had a number of science classes at the community college level. Due to articulation agreements, my in-state had to accept them. The caveat is community college is not as rigorous (anecdotal, personal experience). The four year courses generally had higher expectations, covered more material and will better prepare you for veterinary school.

 

[that redhead]

Hi... I hear Organic Chemistry is hard, yet I am trying to prevent myself from having a gap year when I apply to vet school. Has anyone taken Organic Chemistry 1 in summer A and Organic Chemistry in summer B? If I do this I only plan to take this class only, plus organic chemistry lab.

I took organic chem II (lecture and lab) over the summer. It is a face-paced course and the hours are long but it's totally do-able. I even worked heavy part-time, too. I wouldn't add any other courses though, like you've planned.

 

[ResoluteMike]

Hi... I hear Organic Chemistry is hard, yet I am trying to prevent myself from having a gap year when I apply to vet school. Has anyone taken Organic Chemistry 1 in summer A and Organic Chemistry in summer B? If I do this I only plan to take this class only, plus organic chemistry lab.

I did this and completed Org 1 and 2 with labs over the summer. It sucked and pretty much consumed my life, but it was so nice to just get it done.

 

[MDB74]

To OP, as others have said you have to take the W here. You can imagine how bad a C- and an F on the same class looks on a transcript. Overall your GPA is low and just basing off your chemistry scores your science GPA is almost certainly pretty low. At this point you should be targeting vet schools that don't care about sGPA and allow grade replacement. If you do drop the class then I encourage you to basically pretend like you're still in class. Run flashcards, read over the material that gave you trouble, review quizzes. Use this time wisely as your 3rd try is your last chance to nail this class and doing poorly (even a C) will negatively impact your application.

Hi... I hear Organic Chemistry is hard, yet I am trying to prevent myself from having a gap year when I apply to vet school. Has anyone taken Organic Chemistry 1 in summer A and Organic Chemistry in summer B? If I do this I only plan to take this class only, plus organic chemistry lab.

I did this (both Ochems + labs over 8 weeks total) for the exact same reason you're thinking about doing it. While I didn't mind it, it does take over most of your life. I only worked about 20 hours a week over that summer and I wouldn't advise going much higher than that if you want to survive. Plan on some loooong nights working on lab reports and going over reactions.

 

[Mattcj]

I went to SUNY Oswego for 2 years as a Zoology major, and I have transferred to SUNY Stony Brook in Fall 2016. Since Stony Brook only accepts C and higher, my organic chemistry 2 grade did not get transferred over. So, as a result, I am retaking it and struggling very badly. Here are my chem grades:

Oswego:
Overall GPA: 2.95

• Gen Chem 1: B-
• Gen Chem 2: B
• Organic Chemistry: B-
• Organic Chemistry Lab: B+
• Organic Chemistry 2: C-
• Organic Chemistry 2 Lab: B

Stony Brook:
Overall GPA: 3.25

• Organic Chemistry 2: Currently failing (got a 31 on my first test ). Not grasping any concepts no matter how long I spend doing practice problems with TA's.

I know I have performed sub-par with my chemistry grades, which can be seen because I have received B's throughout my college career. I really can't afford to fail this organic chemistry 2 class. I am considering withdrawing from my course before it is too late, and then retaking organic chemistry 2 at a community college near me during the summer where the course work won't be as difficult.

My question is, would it look worse to fail the class, get it factored into my gpa and then retake the class? Or would it look worse to take a W, but do good in the class at a community college?

Foot note: At my college, they do not replace my grade if I repeat a course. For example, If I get a C-, then somehow retake it and get an A, they average the 2 together and give me a B.

I got a D- in organic I then got a C+ the following year i retook it and a C in organic II. My gpa wasnt great but i still got accepted to 3 schools on my first application. Retake the class, whether you get a fail or withdraw. Most schools will factor in both grades into your GPAs.

 

[SkiOtter]

I got a D- in organic I then got a C+ the following year i retook it and a C in organic II. My gpa wasnt great but i still got accepted to 3 schools on my first application. Retake the class, whether you get a fail or withdraw. Most schools will factor in both grades into your GPAs.

Depending on the grades you get in the course both times it could hurt you a lot to not take the W. Lots of schools average the two grades, so getting a D- and then a C+ would average to a D+/C- which isn’t going to help your GPA at all. And I’m not sure if the school would count it as a pass of the course since it averaged out to lower than the C most places require (I feel like I remember seeing at least one place that did that and won’t count it as having passed if it averages out lower than a C??). Having these grades in one class, the applicant should be focusing more on schools that replace the grade versus averaging them, even if the schools do still count it as getting above a C because that D- is still being factored into your GPA and dragging it down.

 

[SportPonies]

I have not read all the responses to this thread, but if I were in your position, I absolutely would take the W. It's very possible to redeem yourself from those grades and a W! My chem grades were somewhere around the following:
Gen Chem I: W the first time because bad prof/C+ second time
Gen Chem II: C
O Chem I: B
O Chem II: B-?
O Chem Lab: B+
Biochem: B

Not my proudest set of grades, but I made up for them with my bio grades and brought myself up to a low 3.4-range GPA by graduation. I also had an additional W on my transcript from another class, and I was accepted during my first application cycle.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Just wanted to point out this thread was started last year, I would hope the OP has made a decision whether to drop the class at this point.

But while I'm here, I'm surprised I never responded to this thread before, but if anyone is feeling bad about their o-chem grades, go read my saga: Successful Applicant Stats - Class of 2020
It definitely made it harder to get accepted to vet school, but it didn't ruin my chances!

 

[SportPonies]

Just wanted to point out this thread was started last year, I would hope the OP has made a decision whether to drop the class at this point.

But while I'm here, I'm surprised I never responded to this thread before, but if anyone is feeling bad about their o-chem grades, go read my saga: Successful Applicant Stats - Class of 2020
It definitely made it harder to get accepted to vet school, but it didn't ruin my chances!

Haha well that's embarrassing... my observation skills are lacking in the last week.