Just a small rant

[ZMalek111]

I may get some hatred for this and frankly I will take it, I simply don't care. This is in response to a Dentist who talked to me in a very condescending manner because he/she is already a Dentist. Listen, if you went from High School to College to Dental School without working a full time job anywhere else, I don't think you can relay life lessons to aspiring Dentists. You can give all the advice you want about your profession, but you just won't be able to build that rapport with some of us. Why is that? Well me personally, I have busted my ass for years in the Restaurant Management field working 60-70+ hours a week. I have also held various other jobs, and the one thing I see common in a lot of these jobs is people who are much older who wished they would have gotten a degree or worked in a more respected/higher-paying/happy career. So you can see my bewilderment coming here and seeing some of these whiny Dentists who never really held other positions and went straight from school to school. I mean I can't really blame them, they knew what they wanted to do right after High School and they achieved it. Good on them! I just can't relate to them, because they are just professional students who became Dentists.

I have already been through the school of hard knocks and I know what I want. A lot of non-traditional students can relate to me. Another thing that grinds my gears is the "Dentistry is over-saturated" bandwagon. There are people with masters degrees earning 10 dollars an hour right now, my best friend with a law degree is working at Starbucks. This one Dentist I saw was complaining about making 120k a year. I am not assuming anything at all, I know that Dentists have a big debt and it takes a huge amount of time and hard work to become one. I know what I want, I have the business skills, the sales skills and life lessons to know that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. As a father with 2 kids, yes I want to be a Dentist and I don't want to hear miserable Dentists who chose the wrong careers b**ch about their life, cause life is HARSH everywhere.

If you made it through this rant, thanks. If you read this and rolled your eyes at every point, thanks. Good luck my fellow Students and a big thank you to the Dentists that have provided excellent, motivating and practical advice about the field. May your careers and offices reach new heights!

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[Advance]

It just takes perspective (which many people seem to lack these days). I even find myself doing the same thing with my job. I moan and complain, but when I sit and think about it... I have it pretty good. I'm not homeless or starving. I'm healthy. I spent over 3000$ just to apply to dental school. There are many people that don't have this luxury and are struggling to make ends meet.

First world problems.

 

[NonTraDentalStudent]

I totally understand. As a non-traditional applicant, I had a previous career as a middle school teacher. I've worked in several places over the course of my lifetime and have learned an immense amount about myself in the process (strengths, weaknesses, what I like, what I don't like etc). I have never had an income even remotely resembling anything a dentist makes, and I am not unfamiliar with financial struggles...but I know that there are SO many more out there who suffer significantly more than me (like, their water/electricity has been cut off so they can't shower or wash their clothes, they can't afford untattered clothes or even basic school supplies...I've seen it so much in my students and it broke my heart). I understand the debt is high, the work can be grueling, and we will have to work with less than ideal patients (this is NOT unique to dentistry). Informed financial decisions and an understanding of what life in the real world is truly like should lessen the blow of "real life" hitting as a newbie practicing dentist.

Fun fact...I kept hearing that as a resident you make peanuts, "practically nothing," and that it would be impossible to live off that amount realistically. After some research I realized that the average dental resident income is significantly higher than what I ever made as a teacher...perspective guys. It's about learning to live within (or even below) your means.

It can sometimes be difficult to relate to the young pre-dent or dental student that has never had a career, but I do appreciate the conversation. Us non-trads just have to take everything we read here with a grain of salt.

 

[Mhines24]

I may get some hatred for this and frankly I will take it, I simply don't care. This is in response to a Dentist who talked to me in a very condescending manner because he/she is already a Dentist. Listen, if you went from High School to College to Dental School without working a full time job anywhere else, I don't think you can relay life lessons to aspiring Dentists. You can give all the advice you want about your profession, but you just won't be able to build that rapport with some of us. Why is that? Well me personally, I have busted my ass for years in the Restaurant Management field working 60-70+ hours a week. I have also held various other jobs, and the one thing I see common in a lot of these jobs is people who are much older who wished they would have gotten a degree or worked in a more respected/higher-paying/happy career. So you can see my bewilderment coming here and seeing some of these whiny Dentists who never really held other positions and went straight from school to school. I mean I can't really blame them, they knew what they wanted to do right after High School and they achieved it. Good on them! I just can't relate to them, because they are just professional students who became Dentists.

I have already been through the school of hard knocks and I know what I want. A lot of non-traditional students can relate to me. Another thing that grinds my gears is the "Dentistry is over-saturated" bandwagon. There are people with masters degrees earning 10 dollars an hour right now, my best friend with a law degree is working at Starbucks. This one Dentist I saw was complaining about making 120k a year. I am not assuming anything at all, I know that Dentists have a big debt and it takes a huge amount of time and hard work to become one. I know what I want, I have the business skills, the sales skills and life lessons to know that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. As a father with 2 kids, yes I want to be a Dentist and I don't want to hear miserable Dentists who chose the wrong careers b**ch about their life, cause life is HARSH everywhere.

If you made it through this rant, thanks. If you read this and rolled your eyes at every point, thanks. Good luck my fellow Students and a big thank you to the Dentists that have provided excellent, motivating and practical advice about the field. May your careers and offices reach new heights!

All you can do is focus on your career and let others do them coming from the bottom and being a hard worker will only benefit you in the long run. Some people have a lot eaisier road to dentistry than others but in the end all that matters is that your happy with YOUR carrer!

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Having a career before dental school is not an achievement and you should stop treating it like one. Working a ****ty job doesn't give you special life insight.

There seems to be a common theme to all of your posts where you basically say "if you're a dentist and you complain about the profession you need to stop because I worked a different job and it sucked so much more so don't complain"...which is ridiculous. Should you not complain about working a stressful job because there are unemployed people with no jobs? Or not complain about anything because you live in a first world country with running water, food, and electricity? People are simply voicing their criticisms of what they have had to deal with in dentistry (that you have yet to) - that doesn't get undermined by your own negative experiences in other careers.

 

[A Pre-dent]

I just can't relate to them, because they are just professional students who became Dentists.

You'll have a tough time with that attitude. You might not relate to them now, but you probably should learn how since these are the large majority of your future colleagues. It's good to have the perspective though. I mean, you will be employing a staff of assistants and hygienists, and not all of them are working their 'dream jobs.'

 

[deleted630732]

There are people with masters degrees earning 10 dollars an hour right now, my best friend with a law degree is working at Starbucks. This one Dentist I saw was complaining about making 120k a year. I am not assuming anything at all, I know that Dentists have a big debt and it takes a huge amount of time and hard work to become one.

I think you bring an interesting perspective to the table as someone who has struggled and really been through hard times, however, I think you also lack the perspective of full fledged dentists and what it is like in a highly skilled field. Yes 120k is good money and people can live very comfortably off of that. However after spending 200k+ on school and dedicating 8 years of their life to training post high school, I can see exactly why 120k would be something to complain about. A four year engineering degree will get you to 100k pretty quickly if not more, flight attendants make 70k with no training and advanced nurse practitioners in certain fields are making as much or more than him. Again, its about perspective. It's like a Ph.D that complains about making 65k a year teaching. I think its sad that someone who worked so hard and spent so much time on their education is making so little compared to what others in their field are making.

I think dentists work really hard and go through a lot of school, and to come out making 120k a year definitely can seem like a slap in the face.

 

[ZMalek111]

I think you bring an interesting perspective to the table as someone who has struggled and really been through hard times, however, I think you also lack the perspective of full fledged dentists and what it is like in a highly skilled field. Yes 120k is good money and people can live very comfortably off of that. However after spending 200k+ on school and dedicating 8 years of their life to training post high school, I can see exactly why 120k would be something to complain about. A four year engineering degree will get you to 100k pretty quickly if not more, flight attendants make 70k with no training and advanced nurse practitioners in certain fields are making as much or more than him. Again, its about perspective. It's like a Ph.D that complains about making 65k a year teaching. I think its sad that someone who worked so hard and spent so much time on their education is making so little compared to what others in their field are making.

I think dentists work really hard and go through a lot of school, and to come out making 120k a year definitely can seem like a slap in the face.

I agree with your stance on perspective, and I did mention that Dentists go through so much debt and time/hard-work to get to where they are at. I was speaking more for the people who haven't earned anything elsewhere and consider 120k ****ty. Also median salary for a flight attendant is 20 dollars an hour, engineering students still have to fight to get that job and most are taking positions that pay much lower to be employed, with the surplus of engineering students from other Countries flooding the job market here, it is pretty rough for everyone.

 

[ZMalek111]

Having a career before dental school is not an achievement and you should stop treating like one. Working a ****ty job doesn't give you special life insight.

There seems to be a common theme to all of your posts where you basically say "if you're a dentist and you complain about the profession you need to stop because I worked a different job and it sucked so much more so don't complain"...which is ridiculous. Should you not complain about working a stressful job because there are unemployed people with no jobs? Or not complain about anything because you live in a first world country with running water, food, and electricity? People are simply voicing their criticisms of what they have had to deal with in dentistry (that you have yet to) - that doesn't get undermined by your own negative experiences in other careers.

There seems to be a common theme to people like you who don't understand what I am saying though. Where did I say it was an achievement? Why are you putting words in my mouth? I just relayed the fact I have worked these other jobs and it has provided me with experience other Dental Students or career Dentists could not relate too. I have been getting messages from Non-Traditional students and others agreeing with me on this post and showing their support. I never said they shouldn't complain, as they are voicing their opinion, so am I. You are over simplifying my rant, "if you're a dentist and you complain about the profession you need to stop because I worked a different job and it sucked so much more so don't complain", these are YOUR words. My whole point wasn't their complaining about the job but the complaining that causes them to tell others not to join the field or makes them talk condescendingly to others who are on the journey! Yeah I am ready to deal with whatever I deal with in dentistry ( THAT I HAVE YET TO).

 

[ZMalek111]

You'll have a tough time with that attitude. You might not relate to them now, but you probably should learn how since these are the large majority of your future colleagues. It's good to have the perspective though. I mean, you will be employing a staff of assistants and hygienists, and not all of them are working their 'dream jobs.'

No I won't have a tough time with that attitude, I have management experience, dealing with people from all walks of life. You think the waiters and FOH staff I managed weren't older and not in their "dream" career? Some of you make it seem I am angry at all Dentists, even though I thanked the ones I needed too at the end of my rant.

 

[ZMalek111]

All you can do is focus on your career and let others do them coming from the bottom and being a hard worker will only benefit you in the long run. Some people have a lot eaisier road to dentistry than others but in the end all that matters is that your happy with YOUR carrer!

I agree, thank you.

 

[ZMalek111]

I totally understand. As a non-traditional applicant, I had a previous career as a middle school teacher. I've worked in several places over the course of my lifetime and have learned an immense amount about myself in the process (strengths, weaknesses, what I like, what I don't like etc). I have never had an income even remotely resembling anything a dentist makes, and I am not unfamiliar with financial struggles...but I know that there are SO many more out there who suffer significantly more than me (like, their water/electricity has been cut off so they can't shower or wash their clothes, they can't afford untattered clothes or even basic school supplies...I've seen it so much in my students and it broke my heart). I understand the debt is high, the work can be grueling, and we will have to work with less than ideal patients (this is NOT unique to dentistry). Informed financial decisions and an understanding of what life in the real world is truly like should lessen the blow of "real life" hitting as a newbie practicing dentist.

Fun fact...I kept hearing that as a resident you make peanuts, "practically nothing," and that it would be impossible to live off that amount realistically. After some research I realized that the average dental resident income is significantly higher than what I ever made as a teacher...perspective guys. It's about learning to live within (or even below) your means.

It can sometimes be difficult to relate to the young pre-dent or dental student that has never had a career, but I do appreciate the conversation. Us non-trads just have to take everything we read here with a grain of salt.

Ah you summed it up really good!

 

[ZMalek111]

Having a career before dental school is not an achievement and you should stop treating like one. Working a ****ty job doesn't give you special life insight.

There seems to be a common theme to all of your posts where you basically say "if you're a dentist and you complain about the profession you need to stop because I worked a different job and it sucked so much more so don't complain"...which is ridiculous. Should you not complain about working a stressful job because there are unemployed people with no jobs? Or not complain about anything because you live in a first world country with running water, food, and electricity? People are simply voicing their criticisms of what they have had to deal with in dentistry (that you have yet to) - that doesn't get undermined by your own negative experiences in other careers.

Ah I see now, you are one of these career students and that is why you are so butt-hurt. Leave your College for a bit, experience the real world and then come back and give me your BS talk.

 

[AwfulEverything]

I would just ignore the golden-children that roam around and complain that 120 K is not enough. Give me a break I've been living under 30 K before tax. I'd gladly take that.

 

[ZMalek111]

I would just ignore the golden-children that roam around and complain that 120 K is not enough. Give me a break I've been living under 30 K before tax. I'd gladly take that.

And you have some of these professional Students coming on here trying to attack me because I actually had to work a day in my life, while simultaneously praising every Dentist they come across.

 

[darknightzzz]

SDN is so interesting. soapy drama.

 

[Carbohydrates]

SDN is so interesting. soapy drama.

Hey havent seen you a while!!! How's life?

 

[tombradyschin]

Although I am only 22, I have worked in a managerial position for many summers in between college years. I agree some of what OP says about people being ungrateful by being with "only" 120k salary is kind of obnoxious. However, I don't think he is being very compassionate with what he calls "professional students." Some people are lucky enough (and smart enough) to have not gone out into the real world until they have achieved Doctor status. I think OP may be a little jealous of this, because he has had to deal with such a high stress job, and wishes he was equally as lucky to be 21-22 going into dental school. Either way let's all have respect for each other, even as anonymous talking heads on the computer, because one day we will need to work side by side to make it work!

 

[FeralisExtremum]

My whole point wasn't their complaining about the job but the complaining that causes them to tell others not to join the field or makes them talk condescendingly to others who are on the journey! Yeah I am ready to deal with whatever I deal with in dentistry ( THAT I HAVE YET TO).

You seem to have difficulty dealing with the critical opinions of people experienced in a profession that you haven't actually worked a single day as. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe dentistry isn't completely perfect as a profession, or that they actually know what they're talking about when they offer insights into its negative aspects?

Ah I see now, you are one of these career students and that is why you are so butt-hurt. Leave your College for a bit, experience the real world and then come back and give me your BS talk.

I worked for several years after graduating college before getting into dental school but sure, whatever fits your desperate narrative. I'm sorry you think having a job makes you special.

 

[ZMalek111]

Although I am only 22, I have worked in a managerial position for many summers in between college years. I agree some of what OP says about people being ungrateful by being with "only" 120k salary is kind of obnoxious. However, I don't think he is being very compassionate with what he calls "professional students." Some people are lucky enough (and smart enough) to have not gone out into the real world until they have achieved Doctor status. I think OP may be a little jealous of this, because he has had to deal with such a high stress job, and wishes he was equally as lucky to be 21-22 going into dental school. Either way let's all have respect for each other, even as anonymous talking heads on the computer, because one day we will need to work side by side to make it work!

My rant wasn't a dig at traditional Students, I even acknowledged the fact that it is awesome that they knew what they were going to do and did it. You all just skim over my rant and add your input. I have respect for people, what made you think otherwise? My point was Dentists who haven't had other experience trying to give life advice to us Non-Traditional students. Oh you worked only in summers, see this is the type of stuff I am talking about, you are really trying to build rapport by stating you worked Summers? LOL, Did you handle any P&L? You assume I am jealous, I don't give a flying ****, I am happy that I got these experiences or else I would have been just like most of you trying to get at me right now. Stop coming at my neck because you like assuming.

 

[ZMalek111]

You seem to have difficulty dealing with the critical opinions of people experienced in a profession that you haven't actually worked a single day as. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe dentistry isn't completely perfect as a profession, or that they actually know what they're talking about when they offer insights into its negative aspects?



I worked for several years after graduating college before getting into dental school but sure, whatever fits your desperate narrative. I'm sorry you think having a job makes you special.

Who said working a job makes me special? Do you just not read and start assuming? I don't have a difficulty dealing with critical opinions, once again you didn't read my thank you at the end of my letter to the Dentists who have provided me with valuable information negative or positive. Has it ever occurred to you that all your responses are BS because you don't understand what I am saying? Hop off.

 

[ZMalek111]

SDN is so interesting. soapy drama.

I love all this butt hurt, getting at me without realizing what I am ranting about.

 

[Mhines24]

Although I am only 22, I have worked in a managerial position for many summers in between college years. I agree some of what OP says about people being ungrateful by being with "only" 120k salary is kind of obnoxious. However, I don't think he is being very compassionate with what he calls "professional students." Some people are lucky enough (and smart enough) to have not gone out into the real world until they have achieved Doctor status. I think OP may be a little jealous of this, because he has had to deal with such a high stress job, and wishes he was equally as lucky to be 21-22 going into dental school. Either way let's all have respect for each other, even as anonymous talking heads on the computer, because one day we will need to work side by side to make it work!

Agreed as competitive as the dentistry field is it's easy to get jealous of our peers. SDN is here to help those people wanting to pursue dentistry and answer thier questions.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

I don't have a difficulty dealing with critical opinions

Literally every single comment you make suggests otherwise. I hope you develop better social skills before interviews come around.

 

[darknightzzz]

Hey havent seen you a while!!! How's life?

im still reading SDN every day like i have to eat but i limit my comments . life is kinda good so far on the other side of admission spectrum

 

[ZMalek111]

Maybe I should have gone in to law because I constantly have to clear points for your assumptions

- Not taking a dig at traditional students or Dentists
- Not saying Dentistry is easy
- No I am not jealous, I am extremely happy to have the life experiences I have had
- I am thankful for this forum and all the Dentists who have provided extremely valuable information when they did not have too
- I do respect all Dentists
- Stop assuming
- Having work experience does not make me special or more important
- I don't mind critical opinions, but believe I am going to counter, I don't care who you are

 

[ZMalek111]

Literally every single comment you make suggests otherwise. I hope you develop better social skills before interviews come around.

My social skills are on point, I am not going to bow to everyone online, I am also voicing my opinions. I'm not going to sit here and just take it. Just because people use your Bio notes doesn't mean they have to get on their knees for you, or inflate your head even more.

 

[Advance]

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Just because people use your Bio notes doesn't mean they have to get on their knees for you, or inflate your head even more.

Actually, they do. It's a disclaimer written into using my notes.

You wouldn't happen to be Frank22, would you? His social skills were similarly 'on point'.

 

[ZMalek111]

Literally every single comment you make suggests otherwise. I hope you develop better social skills before interviews come around.

And your first reply on this thread was talking ****. So understand I am not going to reply to you in a civilized manner.

 

[ZMalek111]

Actually, they do. It's a disclaimer written into using my notes.

You wouldn't happen to be Frank22, would you? His social skills were similarly 'on point'.

Hur dur dur, shut up you are corny as hell.

 

[Carbohydrates]

Actually, they do. It's a disclaimer written into using my notes.

You wouldn't happen to be Frank22, would you? His social skills were similarly 'on point'.

I shall do it the day I meet you sir, or dude, or sir-dude. Or Dr. Dude-sir (whatever you prefer)

 

[FeralisExtremum]

My social skills are on point

Hur dur dur, shut up you are corny as hell.

 

[Carbohydrates]

You want a corn dog? I got extras?

 

[ZMalek111]

Good luck in your career and life.

 

[Carbohydrates]

im still reading SDN every day like i have to eat but i limit my comments . life is kinda good so far on the other side of admission spectrum

Where are you heading?

 

[lazyindy]

lmao at this entire thread

 

[darknightzzz]

Where are you heading?

mwu az for now

 

[toothdriller2k17]

Having a career before dental school is not an achievement and you should stop treating it like one. Working a ****ty job doesn't give you special life insight.

There seems to be a common theme to all of your posts where you basically say "if you're a dentist and you complain about the profession you need to stop because I worked a different job and it sucked so much more so don't complain"...which is ridiculous. Should you not complain about working a stressful job because there are unemployed people with no jobs? Or not complain about anything because you live in a first world country with running water, food, and electricity? People are simply voicing their criticisms of what they have had to deal with in dentistry (that you have yet to) - that doesn't get undermined by your own negative experiences in other careers.

agreed.

 

[ZMalek111]

agreed.

Buthurt professional students incoming 3..2..1..

 

[toothdriller2k17]

i see where OP is coming from, but i see it like this...and i mean no offense by the way...

a dentist who has never had any other professional experience can give you advice about dentistry, because..... that person is a dentist therefore, can give you advice about dentistry. simple as that. are you a dentist? no. have you gone through dental school? no. this dentist that you're referring to isn't telling you how to build your home or raise your kids...just painting a very realistic picture of a field that you are about to enter. the dentist spoke to you in a condescending manner? sounds about right. welcome to a field where you are constantly judged and critiqued by the millimeter.

put aside your ego for a minute and take it in. it's good to have that hungry mindset, because it'll definitely help you out once you actually experience dental school...but realize that once you're immersed in school/the profession, it's a completely different ballgame.

 

[pgex2t]

im still reading SDN every day like i have to eat but i limit my comments . life is kinda good so far on the other side of admission spectrum

Oh man...must be nice on that side *envy*

Buthurt professional students incoming 3..2..1..

you're trying way too hard bro

 

[toothdriller2k17]

and it's not a matter of being 'buthurt'. just telling you how it is. i have friends who changed careers to be dentists and they're making it work...a lot of them are older, and came in with the same mindset that OP has so i totally get it.

as a side note, for most of them, their previous jobs allowed them to purchase homes...which they sold to go to dental school by the way so the whole financial thing isn't as much of an issue.

 

[Syntav]

the real problem is that there's just too many people in the world. Everyone here just don't have babies.

 

[pulltheleverkronk]

I love this thread

 

[toothdriller2k17]

I love this thread

me as well. the only thing that needs to top it off is something along the lines of 'i plan to specialize so it isn't going to be much of an issue'.

 

[A Pre-dent]

Buthurt professional students incoming 3..2..1..

Hey, at least us "professional students" have the sophisticated language skills to use upper-case letters correctly and avoid making homophobic remarks. C'mon man!

 

[ZMalek111]

i see where OP is coming from, but i see it like this...and i mean no offense by the way...

a dentist who has never had any other professional experience can give you advice about dentistry, because..... that person is a dentist therefore, can give you advice about dentistry. simple as that. are you a dentist? no. have you gone through dental school? no. this dentist that you're referring to isn't telling you how to build your home or raise your kids...just painting a very realistic picture of a field that you are about to enter. the dentist spoke to you in a condescending manner? sounds about right. welcome to a field where you are constantly judged and critiqued by the millimeter.

put aside your ego for a minute and take it in. it's good to have that hungry mindset, because it'll definitely help you out once you actually experience dental school...but realize that once you're immersed in school/the profession, it's a completely different ballgame.

Thank you for this. I agree with what you are saying, but when that Dentist compares his/her career being ****ty compared to others, I just can't relate, not because I am not yet a Dentist ; but because that person hasn't seen anything else to compare it too.

 

[ZMalek111]

Oh man...must be nice on that side *envy*



you're trying way too hard bro

How, just defending myself, none of you pay my bills so I could give two sh*ts.

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

This is now my 6th favorite thread on SDN. Can we get it to number 1? Let's try!