Let me know if I'm out of my mind?

[kayology]

I'm going to try to keep this as concise as possible despite having, what I feel, is a unique non-trad background (I'm sure everyone does 😉).

Every year or so, I get stuck on the idea of going to med school. Near the end of HS, I dismissed the entire idea because I so strongly believed I was not a "math or science person." Long story short, I ended up graduating from a top public research university with a B.S. in Psychology and a B.A. in Sociology (3.7 GPA), and am currently working on an MA/PhD program in Community Health Research with a concentration in underserved health.

In hindsight, I feel that my former doubts were a little unfounded because I aced all of my stats and upper-level psych courses (I say 'a little' because I haven't completed my BCP pre-reqs yet) with 2+ years of research experience and a first-authored pub. To put it plainly, I love health research but I want to make more of an applied impact, and am unsure if I want to complete the PhD.

This could be just another whim (albeit, one I've taken more seriously, for a longer period than others) or it could be my chance to finally pursue what my brain has been bugging me about for years. Whatever the case may be, I'm beginning to wonder if my MA might put me in a good position to apply to med schools if I complete pre-reqs along the way. Being 22, I'm willing to spend the next 2-3 years gathering clinical and volunteer experience while studying for the MCAT.

Here are my stats, some of which I hope will help my applications:

• Psych/Soc - 3.7 GPA
• Middle Eastern, First-Gen
• 1 of 2 "student marshals" selected by psych and soc departments to lead uni-wide graduation ceremony
• President of a student research org and one of the directors of our TED chapter
• 2+ years of research experience in psych (underserved health) with 2 grants from my departments
• TA for 2 upper-level psych classes
• Currently co-leading a youth council for at-risk behavior at a children's hospital

I'm hoping with more health research in my MA/PhD program, along with pre-reqs and clinical + volunteering experience, I'll have a chance to get into med school - but I'd hate to waste the time if I'm out of my depth. So my questions are: how will my background look to a committee, how long and what specific types of clinical and volunteering experiences would look superb considering my non-trad application (feel free to name drop some orgs if you can - I'm willing to travel and devote summers), and what grades are considered "cut-offs" for BCP classes, specifically in terms of different tiered schools including Caribbean schools (which I'm not totally against, unless you can change my mind from what little research I've done).

Please include any other thoughts I may be leaving out here! Thanks a bunch.

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[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Well, for starters, your research background looks great. If you're interested in continuing with research, you may choose to apply to some research-heavy schools but ultimately, your school list will depend on your stats. Obviously, no one can really say much about your chances when you haven't taken any prereqs or the MCAT. But from what you've written, it sounds like you have a very strong background without any red flags whatsoever up until this point. This means you're starting in a great position and you don't have to worry about addressing any flaws from the past.

The average MD matriculant cumulative GPA is ~3.7 and science GPA is ~3.6. There aren't really any hard cutoffs. You want the best grades you can possibly muster in everything. But if you're interested in seeing what the average GPA and MCAT scores are for schools you might consider applying to, I recommend purchasing access to MSAR. It's extremely useful for picking a school list that is a good mix of "target" and "reach" schools. Don't even think about the Caribbean at this point. There are literally a squillion posts on this site about the serious dangers of going Carib so I'm not going to repeat them here. Buyer beware for real.

As for EC's, again, there is no magic recipe that's going to look great to adcoms. Find something you're passionate about. It sounds like you're interested in working with the underserved. So maybe you choose to volunteer at a free clinic or a homeless shelter. If there's a safety net hospital in your area, maybe you can find a paid or volunteer position there. You could try your local Planned Parenthood/nursing home/hospice facility/needle exchange/domestic violence agency. Not everything you do needs to be directly medically-related but adcoms do want to see that you have exposure to both patients and providers. You want to show that you've taken the time to explore this career path to be sure that it's right for you.

I think all nontrads should give "Why medicine?" some extra thought since many of us are coming to medicine after pursuing another career or area of study. In general, I think your background is more likely to help than hurt you but I think you should still expect that adcoms will want to hear specifically why you chose medicine after starting a PhD. Be sure to have concrete and thoughtful answers to this question (both for yourself and for adcoms!).

I hear you on not feeling like a "math and science" person. But there's a lot more to medicine than that and you may surprise yourself. I would start with 1 or 2 prereqs and see how they go! Start shadowing a few docs in different specialties to get a feel for whether you like the day to day work of being a doctor.

 

[JD13]

At 22 you're only slightly non-trad. Focus on your pre-requisites and another publication would be great. I'm a lawyer but my wife went to med school after 9 years of nursing and is now an orthopaedic surgeon. If it's what you want then go for it and don't look back. You have a long road ahead of you (2-3 years prereq, 4 yrs med school, 4-6 years residency, 1 yr fellowship) about 11 to 14 years total, but in the end being a doctor appears to be worth the effort. The previous post has given you some great advice. The only thing I can ad is that if there is an interview then your personality does count. This is especially true for residency. Pick up a book or two on how to make people like you, especially in short periods of time. You want to be likeable, not boisterous or a braggart.

 

[kayology]

Hey guys, thanks for your reply. I do have some follow up questions so if anyone could provide some feedback that would be helpful.

As far as Caribbean schools go - does the buyer beware rule apply to all Carib schools, like St. George's for example? I've read some stats on their students being pretty successful at finding residency positions. It's anecdotal, but my uncle is an MD in internal medicine and went to a Carib school because he had a low GPA graduating from college, but that was 30 years ago, so I'm wary of whatever he has to say. And how do DO schools compare to Carib schools?

As far as EC's go, I've read some contradicting opinions on here. My understanding is that when you fill out the application, you'll want to be able to write about volunteer AND clinical experiences. This is the part where it gets confusing for me - I've read that you should have non-clinical volunteer experience along with clinical experiences (involving patient and provider interactions). I'm assuming it's best to be able to check all of those boxes? In other words - is it terrible for all of your volunteering to be clinical?

I ask because I just shadowed a therapy session with a substance abuse/domestic violence/homeless/sex work population and they mentioned a respite care facility for the homeless around here. I dropped in, but they're not in huge need for volunteers right now other than people who can bring in meals. My next biggest interest would be volunteering or applying for a case manager job at this agency that deals with substance abuse/mental illness/domestic violence, but I'm not sure how clinical an adcom would deem this? Some of the duties include: symptom monitoring, crisis intervention, housing, medication, budgeting, vocational, and other specialty services - meet with clients individually or in a group to assess needs; collaborate with clients, families and other case managers and clinicians.

What do you think?

 

[Goro]

The only thing you should consider Caribbean for is a vacation. If any of them were on the mainland, they'd be shut down by the accreditors and sued.

 

[DrMikeP]

Caribbean Med schools are known for high drop/kick out rates, huge tuition and expenses , and challenges with getting a US residency. It's just not worth it!

Clinical volunteer work with the underserved is fine, but having some other work like volunteering at like a homeless shelter can help to round out your app.

Good luck

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

@kayology, Just my two cents but I think it's more important that you have some type of volunteer experience--whether it's clinical or non-clinical. Some schools place more of an emphasis on service than others but by and large, most adcoms will want to see that you're generous with your time and willing to give back to those in need. The case management position that you mentioned sounds great! It probably wouldn't be considered clinical since it sounds like your clients aren't really patients per se. But that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. I think if it shows adcoms what your interests are and what types of populations you might interested in serving later on, then you should go for it.

Just make sure you get some exposure to actual patients. You can do this through volunteer work or through clinical jobs like scribing, being a patient care tech, or even some medical assistant-type work (non-certified, usually).