Lied to a physician

[mehc012]

Seriously it's everywhere. And there's essentially zero chance of getting caught. They can't check if students have cell phones in their pocket at the exam room. They can't stop you from going to the bath room. They certainly can't catch you looking **** up in your stall. Such a basic thing, but how would they ever get you?

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[Gandyy]

I mean how can you possibly feel good about a high gpa if you cheated to get there.

I may not have a 4.0 but I feel good that I could get a 3.7+ by being honest and putting in the work.

Unlike many other pre-meds who will find any means necessary to cheat the system.

In my eyes using labs from last year so that you can just copy paste them to save a ton of time and still get an in A in the lab portion of a science class is still cheating.

Even some "study groups" are cheating.

Edit: I remember during my genetics 2200 class sophmore year, apparently students were using old tests for the final since the professor had a track record of using the same final over and over every single year. This was a cumulative genetics final in a pre-med weed out course.

Well I actually studied and knew the material. Well this year he changed the test apparently. I got almost a perfect score and an A+ in genetics. Almost half the class failed the final ( I'm assuming it was the same *****s who try to find the easy way out), and the teacher sent out an announcement letting everyone know about what he thought about using old tests.

 

[efle]

Actually, at my university you are not allowed to leave the exam room unless you are finished with the exam. There are also 4-6 people monitoring exams from all parts of the lecture hall. It would be pretty difficult to pull it off, though not impossible. This isn't the point of this thread, though.

Wow, pretty sure those policies were done away with at my campus years ago due to a lawsuit or something. Cheating IN the exam room is insane tho, nobody does that unless theyre a *****

 

[Gandyy]

I'm not here to comment on this situation. I just noticed I few comments I want to address.

A 33 is a significantly better score than a 30. Saying it's a trivial difference is not true. If a school's median is a 33 and you have a 30, you have a small chance of getting in.

READ: I am on no way saying this lie was justified. Just that the difference between a 30 and a 33 is pretty darn significant. It's the difference between the 78th and the 90th percentile.

I dont know if you can really go by percentiles here. Someone who got a 33 got 4-5 more questions right than the guy who got a 30 on a 146 Question Test.

According to AAMC practice test scales anyways. I remember these discrpencies because I took the last "Old Mcat" and still remember scales from practice tests.

 

[nRomaleos]

I mean how can you possibly feel good about a high gpa if you cheated to get there.

I may not have a 4.0 but I feel good that I could get a 3.7+ by being honest and putting in the work.

Unlike many other pre-meds who will find any means necessary to cheat the system.

In my eyes using labs from last year so that you can just copy paste them to save a ton of time and still get an in A in the lab portion of a science class is still cheating.

Even some "study groups" are cheating.

Edit: I remember during my genetics 2200 class sophmore year, apparently students were using old tests for the final since the professor had a track record of using the same final over and over every single year. This was a cumulative genetics final in a pre-med weed out course.

Well I actually studied and knew the material. Well this year he changed the test apparently. I got almost a perfect score and an A+ in genetics. Almost half the class failed the final ( I'm assuming it was the same *****s who try to find the easy way out), and the teacher sent out an announcement letting everyone know about what he thought about using old tests.

How can one not study out of paranoia that the professor would catch on.

 

[HCHopeful]

I dont know if you can really go by percentiles here. Someone who got a 33 got 4-5 more questions right than the guy who got a 30 on a 146 Question Test.

According to AAMC practice test scales anyways. I remember these discrpencies because I took the last "Old Mcat" and still remember scales from practice tests.

It doesn't matter how many questions it is. It matters how it is perceived by an admissions committee. It is pretty evident that a 33 has more pull than a 30. Heck. If nothing else, one is below the median for matriculants, and one is above it by 2 points.

And just for the record, I too took the "Old MCAT."

 

[gyngyn]

I dont know if you can really go by percentiles here. Someone who got a 33 got 4-5 more questions right than the guy who got a 30 on a 146 Question Test.

According to AAMC practice test scales anyways. I remember these discrpencies because I took the last "Old Mcat" and still remember scales from practice tests.

There is a big difference between a 30 and a 33 (in terms of correct answers).
The area where 3 points make little difference is at the margins.
There is very little difference between a 3 and a 6, for example, or 40 and 43.

 

[Gandyy]

Actually, at my university you are not allowed to leave the exam room unless you are finished with the exam. There are also 4-6 people monitoring exams from all parts of the lecture hall. It would be pretty difficult to pull it off, though not impossible. This isn't the point of this thread, though.

Yea, Most of my science classes had the same thing. Its one of the biggest state Public schools in my state if not the biggest. Especially Physics and Organic Tests.

My god they had 2-3 TAs walking around and in the Organic 2 Class the Professor would walk up and down the aisles constantly.

In physics you couldnt take the test unless you had your student ID card out and they had to check you off for attending there as well.

If you didnt check in and didnt have an ID card out at all times, you failed. No matter what.

 

[Gandyy]

How can one not study out of paranoia that the professor would catch on.

Pre-Med insanity. who knows.

 

[Gandyy]

It doesn't matter how many questions it is. It matters how it is perceived by an admissions committee. It is pretty evident that a 33 has more pull than a 30. Heck. If nothing else, one is below the median for matriculants, and one is above it by 2 points.

And just for the record, I too took the "Old MCAT."

I'll give you that. A 33 does look better.

 

[efle]

I mean how can you possibly feel good about a high gpa if you cheated to get there.

I may not have a 4.0 but I feel good that I could get a 3.7+ by being honest and putting in the work.

Unlike many other pre-meds who will find any means necessary to cheat the system.

In my eyes using labs from last year so that you can just copy paste them to save a ton of time and still get an in A in the lab portion of a science class is still cheating.

Even some "study groups" are cheating.

Edit: I remember during my genetics 2200 class sophmore year, apparently students were using old tests for the final since the professor had a track record of using the same final over and over every single year. This was a cumulative genetics final in a pre-med weed out course.

Well I actually studied and knew the material. Well this year he changed the test apparently. I got almost a perfect score and an A+ in genetics. Almost half the class failed the final ( I'm assuming it was the same *****s who try to find the easy way out), and the teacher sent out an announcement letting everyone know about what he thought about using old tests.

Now you may want to sit down.

Some people want a high gpa as a means to get in to med school, and view it as having no intrinsic value.

Drink water. Breath slow.

 

[Gandyy]

Now you may want to sit down.

Some people want a high gpa as a means to get in to med school, and view it as having no intrinsic value.

Drink water. Breath slow.

Im sorry I just had to rant

 

[efle]

There is a big difference between a 30 and a 33 (in terms of correct answers).
The area where 3 points make little difference is at the margins.
There is very little difference between a 3 and a 6, for example, or 40 and 43.

Although I bet the relative increase in rarity from 40 to 43 beats any lower three point shift, so that's actually the most impressive gain to make!

 

[efle]

Honestly mehc I love your positive energy but I bet some people abuse the freedoms at your school a lot :/

 

[gyngyn]

Although I bet the relative increase in rarity from 40 to 43 beats any lower three point shift, so that's actually the most impressive gain to make!

Actually, 40 and 43 are statistically identical and thus equally impressive..

 

[Gandyy]

There is a big difference between a 30 and a 33 (in terms of correct answers).
The area where 3 points make little difference is at the margins.
There is very little difference between a 3 and a 6, for example, or 40 and 43.

maybe im mistaken then

 

[Deranged Medic]

"He is the first student I have ever met to score a 99 on the MCAT."

Your posts are always like a breath of fresh air.

 

[efle]

Actually, 40 and 43 are statistically identical and thus equally impressive..

The luckiest then! It's at least the most significant bump in specialness

Also how do they even know it's identical? Last I saw only a single 38+ retook their score in the last MCAT info guide. Like I can't imagine enough 43s retake to show if they're significantly different from 40's

 

[mehc012]

Honestly mehc I love your positive energy but I bet some people abuse the freedoms at your school a lot :/

I'd take that bet, and I'd win your money!!

 

[Goro]

Congratulations on being correct, but totally irrelevant to the thread. This is what I call a insipid truth.

A 3.9 GPA is also better than a 3.6 as well.

I'm not here to comment on this situation. I just noticed I few comments I want to address.

A 33 is a significantly better score than a 30. Saying it's a trivial difference is not true. If a school's median is a 33 and you have a 30, you have a small chance of getting in.

READ: I am on no way saying this lie was justified. Just that the difference between a 30 and a 33 is pretty darn significant. It's the difference between the 78th and the 90th percentile.

 

[HCHopeful]

Meep.

 

[Axes]

Haha I really don't think I have an optimistic view on life at all (I'm notoriously pessimistic, actually). I've been out of school for a few years, so perhaps I just naively expect a certain level of maturity and professionalism from future colleagues.

In high school, sure. Hell, I had physics formulas stashed in my calculator for almost every test back then. In college? Absolutely not. I'm aware that it occurs in college, but I personally wasn't willing to risk a permanent mark on my academic career while I was living on loans to get me to a higher degree. Same principle for medical school- you're hugely investing in your career, why risk it?

The point is that lying is unnecessary and potentially hugely damaging. Trust is a big deal in any career, but especially in medicine.

lol you discuss my morality while the only barrier between you and cheating is an upgraded consequence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the same as you, but let's not be hypocritical

 

[Affiche]

False assumption. Don't take shortcuts in logical reasoning...

I was a snot-nosed brat in high school who was perfectly content receiving grades I didn't fully earn. I had to do a lot of growing up between high school and college due to personal circumstances, and I realized quickly that I needed to put in honest effort into my academic career.

Your assumption is that I didn't cheat in college because of the magnitude of consequences if caught (relative to high school), when actually it was because I gained something called maturity, which I believe you have yet to become acquainted with....

 

[ChrisMack390]

They like to emphasize the applicant's strengths.
Depending on the amount of OP's exaggeration, the lie may be the centerpiece of the letter!

To Whom It May Concern:

This student got a 44 on the MCAT. Do I really need to say any more?

Kindest Regards,
Dr. Dingle

 

[Affiche]

My point is that regardless of your reasons for not cheating or for cheating, it isn't worth the risk.

 

[efle]

Back in the day, the top verbal score was sometimes recorded as "13-15". I hated that, because I never knew what to say when asked my MCAT score. If I told them the way it was actually recorded, it sounded like I was giving them a range and didn't want to give my exact number.

Hah! Just be like "good". They recently combined all 99.5-99.9 percentile into 100 percentile which I hate too

My point is that regardless of your reasons for not cheating or for cheating, it isn't worth the risk.

At places where you can go to the rest room during exams (which is every uni i've heard of) there is no risk

 

[efle]

Nah, because then you sound like one of those d-bags who says thongs like, "Sorry, I have a rule that never tell anyone my score." I just wanted a number like everyone else.

Fortunately they don't do that crap on the steps.

I hope it's not a d-bag thing to say "well, I'm happy with the score" when people ask how you did/how it went. Most of the time they're premed too and the last thing you want to do is mention directly comparable things like grades in classes you both took

 

[Gandyy]

I hope it's not a d-bag thing to say "well, I'm happy with the score" when people ask how you did/how it went. Most of the time they're premed too and the last thing you want to do is mention directly comparable things like grades in classes you both took

Idk, during college me and other pre-meds who stuck it through from freshman year did compare grades and stuff at times. But we werent the dog eat dog pre-med type. Thats the type you dont want to tell your grades to indeed.

Of course if you dont know them well, then its probably better to just say "i'm happy with the score"

 

[Gandyy]

Hah! Just be like "good". They recently combined all 99.5-99.9 percentile into 100 percentile which I hate too


At places where you can go to the rest room during exams (which is every uni i've heard of) there is no risk

What if you have an Organic 2 Teacher that says "You've probably heard that my tests are Really Hard. In this case they were right" on the first day of class, how far do you think going to the bathroom is going to get

the cheaters in the class?

 

[Axes]

False assumption. Don't take shortcuts in logical reasoning...

I was a snot-nosed brat in high school who was perfectly content receiving grades I didn't fully earn. I had to do a lot of growing up between high school and college due to personal circumstances, and I realized quickly that I needed to put in honest effort into my academic career.

Your assumption is that I didn't cheat in college because of the magnitude of consequences if caught (relative to high school), when actually it was because I gained something called maturity, which I believe you have yet to become acquainted with....

Oh ok for sure. That said, It wasn't really an assumption-- the second paragraph of your last post explicitly states that you didn't cheat in college because of the consequences.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Don't use the letter - most schools don't ask for physician letters, so they barely read them when they get them.

Don't lie anymore, but that's been beaten to death in this thread.

 

[efle]

Idk, during college me and other pre-meds who stuck it through from freshman year did compare grades and stuff at times. But we werent the dog eat dog pre-med type. Thats the type you dont want to tell your grades to indeed.

Of course if you dont know them well, then its probably better to just say "i'm happy with the score"

What if you have an Organic 2 Teacher that says "You've probably heard that my tests are Really Hard. In this case they were right" on the first day of class, how far do you think going to the bathroom is going to get

the cheaters in the class?

I guess I live in gunnerville more than most, it's just a good blanket policy not to mention GPA/MCAT/where you're interviewing/accepted etc. Too high risk of someone feeling bad and nothing really to gain

I had such a prof. We had questions like this and exam medians in the 30s. Being able to go to the bathroom and google will get you this which I'd say helps quite a bit.

Also, you know your avatar isn't the medical staff?

 

[NeuResurgens]

Almost non existent in college

Seriously it's everywhere. And there's essentially zero chance of getting caught. They can't check if students have cell phones in their pocket at the exam room. They can't stop you from going to the bath room. They certainly can't catch you looking **** up in your stall. Such a basic thing, but how would they ever get you?

At my school you need to drop off your exam and a cellphone before you can leave to go to the bathroom. Of course you could just not give up your cellphone, but at least they thought about it.

We also treat grades and MCAT scores like asking someone about how much their salary is in the real world. We don't share except in specific circumstances

 

[efle]

At my school you need to drop off your exam and a cellphone before you can leave to go to the bathroom. Of course you could just not give up your cellphone, but at least they thought about it.

We also treat grades and MCAT scores like asking someone about how much their salary is in the real world. We don't share except in specific circumstances

Hah, what a great counter! Please give us your cell phone...or not whatever. A for effort.

That's a good analogy. I'll occasionally hear someone did well and congratulate them when I see them but the thought of asking someone what their score was, or them volunteering it, just...awkward and bad

 

[johnnytest]

Just curious, why would an MCAT score even be discussed in an LOR? Grades usually speak for themselves.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Hah, what a great counter! Please give us your cell phone...or not whatever. A for effort.

That's a good analogy. I'll occasionally hear someone did well and congratulate them when I see them but the thought of asking someone what their score was, or them volunteering it, just...awkward and bad

Yeah, I consider it sort of a personal matter since it can be construed as a measure of a person's intelligence. It's pretty rude to ask "hey, just how smart are you? Can you back it up?"

 

[Gandyy]

I guess I live in gunnerville more than most, it's just a good blanket policy not to mention GPA/MCAT/where you're interviewing/accepted etc. Too high risk of someone feeling bad and nothing really to gain

I had such a prof. We had questions like this and exam medians in the 30s. Being able to go to the bathroom and google will get you this which I'd say helps quite a bit.

Also, you know your avatar isn't the medical staff?

Alas the first two images are not popping up on this old horrid iphone. as for the avatar yea I know. I was looking for the medical staff but then I found this avatar instead. It looked cool so I was like why not


Edit. Yea I saw that question now. We had a lot of similar questions. The hardest ones he would throw on us were his critical thinking orgo ones. Definition of true terror. Imagine having to essentially make educated guesses on a long detailed complicated organic 2 mechanisms that you never studied in class! His response was " if you understand the chemistry like I do you should be able to get it right"

 

[efle]

Yeah, I consider it sort of a personal matter since it can be construed as a measure of a person's intelligence. It's pretty rude to ask "hey, just how smart are you? Can you back it up?"

This is especially true for GPA, too many people that dominated the high school scene started struggling in college. You may as well ask "hey are you still special here or like, just barely clinging to a chance at MD?"

 

[NeuResurgens]

This is especially true for GPA, too many people that dominated the high school scene started struggling in college. You may as well ask "hey are you still special here or like, just barely clinging to a chance at MD?"

I went to a pretty redneck school in Georgia.. I had a 4.0 without trying. College was the first time I realized I actually had to work. It can shake a lot of people to get to the next level. I really feel bad when I hear about people who have a low GPA just because of a dismal freshman year.

 

[efle]

I went to a pretty redneck school in Georgia.. I had a 4.0 without trying. College was the first time I realized I actually had to work. It can shake a lot of people to get to the next level. I really feel bad when I hear about people who have a low GPA just because of a dismal freshman year.

I feel worse for people who give it their all from the getgo and still get weeded out. They tried, and failed. Can't imagine anything much ****tier feeling than that

 

[Gandyy]

I feel worse for people who give it their all from the getgo and still get weeded out. They tried, and failed. Can't imagine anything much ****tier feeling than that

Believe it or not, I have a difficult time believing that is possible. I just don't think that pre med courses are so hard that if you put in 110 percent that anyone can fail. Now... The mcat is a different story

 

[NeuResurgens]

I feel worse for people who give it their all from the getgo and still get weeded out. They tried, and failed. Can't imagine anything much ****tier feeling than that

Fortunately I think this is less common. This is why I think the Caribbean schools are downright immoral - they prey on people who really don't have a chance in medicine. They provide them with false hope. Low MCAT? No problem. No GPA? No problem. But there is a problem.

 

[efle]

Fortunately I think this is less common. This is why I think the Caribbean schools are downright immoral - they prey on people who really don't have a chance in medicine. They provide them with false hope. Low MCAT? No problem. No GPA? No problem. But there is a problem.

I think it depends on the school. If you go somewhere super intense like Hopkins that's jam packed with kids from the top few percent, good chance the 2/3 people getting weeded out contains a lot of really smart hard working people. But at least DO schools offer grade replacement so nobody should have to totally give up the dream!

Well, half of Carib applicants still match, right. They don't have no chance in medicine. It's just immoral for them to lure people into hundreds of thousands in debt knowing few will even make it to residency applications and then half of them are still screwed!

 

[Gandyy]

Fortunately I think this is less common. This is why I think the Caribbean schools are downright immoral - they prey on people who really don't have a chance in medicine. They provide them with false hope. Low MCAT? No problem. No GPA? No problem. But there is a problem.

Lmao, "no GPa"

Those kids end up there because of piss poor work ethic and nothing else.

Pre med coursework is not rocket science. You don't have to be a genius to get a high GPa in it, just a hard worker

 

[NeuResurgens]

Lmao, "no GPa"

Those kids end up there because of piss poor work ethic and nothing else.

Pre med coursework is not rocket science. You don't have to be a genius to get a high GPa in it, just a hard worker

For the most part I agree - I think the biggest factor in GPA is work ethic.

 

[Gandyy]

For the most part I agree - I think the biggest factor in GPA is work ethic.

GPa is just a giant work ethic test. Mcat is a little different. For example it is probably within my range to get a 32 on the mcat given my current score but I am well aware I'm not intelligent enough to obtain a 35+. For some on these forums a 35 is easy for them. Actually I probably couldn't even get a 34 tbh

 

[NeuResurgens]

GPa is just a giant work ethic test. Mcat is a little different. For example it is probably within my range to get a 32 on the mcat given my current score but I am well aware I'm not intelligent enough to obtain a 35+. For some on these forums a 35 is easy for them

Certainly a different animal. Standardized tests can be learned to some degree, but there's a threshold when you just need to be gifted. a 40+ won't be pulled off by some people no matter their work ethic.

 

[Gandyy]

Certainly a different animal. Standardized tests can be learned to some degree, but there's a threshold when you just need to be gifted. a 40+ won't be pulled off by some people no matter their work ethic.

Hell I draw the line at a 35, I think 34 is the 90+ percentile

 

[efle]

Lmao, "no GPa"

Those kids end up there because of piss poor work ethic and nothing else.

Pre med coursework is not rocket science. You don't have to be a genius to get a high GPa in it, just a hard worker

For the most part I agree - I think the biggest factor in GPA is work ethic.

Hell I draw the line at a 35, I think 34 is the 90+ percentile

Again, depends on the school. At Wustl 36+ MCAT is more common than 3.8+ GPA. Nationally the GPA is over 3 times as common.

@Goro I see you lurking back there. You've got to admit work ethic can't make you top of your class at any school!

 

[Goro]

All I can tell you is that our weakest students have a very poor work ethic. those who fail boards tend to get called out by their preceptors as having poor work ethics in the clinic.

Good time mgt can be just as important as having a good work ethic.

Good coping skills too.

You can't pin success down to a single attribute. But i'll submit that lazy will get you no where.

Again, depends on the school. At Wustl 36+ MCAT is more common than 3.8+ GPA. Nationally the GPA is over 3 times as common.

@Goro I see you lurking back there. You've got to admit work ethic can't make you top of your class at any school!