Lied to a physician

[mehc012]

What kind of schools do you people go to where you can just walk out of the room?
I had one professor with a cell phone policy. You couldn't leave to go to the restroom without handing in your cell phone. Didn't have one? Too bad.
Another professor where you turn in the exam and that's it. You're done. You don't get to come back and finish.
One professor where he just fails you.
Of course if there were dire circumstances they'd accommodate. But you're an adult and can pee before you go take a 1 hr exam. Bet you didn't get up and go in the middle of MCAT sections.

My profs weren't even in the rooms during exams. Some were closed note, timed take homes. And yeah, I almost did get up in the middle of my MCAT section, not to pee, but to take a break because I finished each section about 15 minutes early and if you finish it and THEN take your break, you lose that time, but if you take a break mid section, you get that extra fifteen minutes AND the inter section breaks.

Ended up not cuz the security line made it a waste of time...more fun to just get out 45+ min early!

So yeah...each school and each student is different. No sense judging them by your school's policies when it may be normal at theirs.

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[efle]

Isn't it possible that say more talented and motivated kids at prestigious places could just need less time to get ready for classes than kids at state schools?

And this explains the MCAT vs GPA disparity how? I've been there. It's not like high school any more where a big brain gets you A's with little effort. If anything putting a ton of type-A tryhards together and telling them 1 in 3 gets an A makes for more intense work environment than State. See: U Chicago, "where fun goes to die", or Hopkins which has miserable grades in student happiness surveys.

I meant absolute # of applicants that get accepted.

The absolute # accepted doesn't change unless the yield does, and rather than the yield changing the schools are just able to progressively admit more and more qualified populations

 

[efle]

Thanks for the info! The math geek in me would like to know what factors the algorithm considers, but I can see how that info would be proprietary.

I suspect different schools also use different ways to figure it out. I'm pretty sure gyngyn is at one of the top three or so UCs if that's interesting to you too

 

[Gandyy]

My profs weren't even in the rooms during exams. Some were closed note, timed take homes. And yeah, I almost did get up in the middle of my MCAT section, not to pee, but to take a break because I finished each section about 15 minutes early and if you finish it and THEN take your break, you lose that time, but if you take a break mid section, you get that extra fifteen minutes AND the inter section breaks.

Ended up not cuz the security line made it a waste of time...more fun to just get out 45+ min early!

So yeah...each school and each student is different. No sense judging them by your school's policies when it may be normal at theirs.

Timed take home exams in college?

 

[efle]

Timed take home exams in college?

Yeah, mehc's college had an honor code that mehc is convinced everyone obeyed...but for anyone who wanted to they could cheat their asses off

 

[samac]

Yeah, mehc's college had an honor code that mehc is convinced everyone obeyed...but for anyone who wanted to they could cheat their asses off

Let's be real, I never once cheated ing undergrad. Never once thought about it. Never cheated in high school, just not something I would do.
But if it was that easy to do so I don't know what I would have done.
A take home exam? I'd probably have my book out.
Edit: actually I'd probably not even bother with the book. Google.

 

[Gandyy]

Yeah, mehc's college had an honor code that mehc is convinced everyone obeyed...but for anyone who wanted to they could cheat their asses off

But my Organic Professor.....................................

 

[Gandyy]

Let's be real, I never once cheated ing undergrad. Never once thought about it. Never cheated in high school, just not something I would do.
But if it was that easy to do so I don't know what I would have done.
A take home exam? I'd probably have my book out.
Edit: actually I'd probably not even bother with the book. Google.

Yea, I made a post on this thread about the typical pre med "honor" code..

 

[mehc012]

Yeah, mehc's college had an honor code that mehc is convinced everyone obeyed...but for anyone who wanted to they could cheat their asses off

Not just mine...there was another thread recently with a Smith grad who said their school had a similar policy. They had a similar opinion of the cheating level there. I guess it's a small school thing. There's no impression that your classmates are doing it, so the whole "everyone does it, you are at a disadvantage if you don't" thing goes out the window.

I'm telling you, it's not something you can really judge without experiencing it.

Let's be real, I never once cheated ing undergrad. Never once thought about it. Never cheated in high school, just not something I would do.
But if it was that easy to do so I don't know what I would have done.
A take home exam? I'd probably have my book out.
Edit: actually I'd probably not even bother with the book. Google.

You may feel differently when you know your prof well enough that they invite you to Thanksgiving dinner with their kids cuz they know you can't make it home. Then, it's nearly inconceivable to spit in their face by cheating. Plus, if there are <6 students in the class, your prof would probably notice if you performance was highly incongruous with your comprehension. If you can't discuss it intelligently before OR after the exam, and you can't get an A on the problem sets (which allow collaboration, Googling, and plenty of time), it will look weird if you suddenly pull a 98 on the exam with 2hrs and no resources.

I guess it's something you can't understand unless you go to a school like that. My big-school friends on SDN always scoff, but my fellow liberal arts kids seem to feel similarly to me.

It goes both ways...I can't picture seeing my fellow students as competition or worrying about a curve. You only truly understand what you've seen yourself.

 

[efle]

Not just mine...there was another thread recently with a Smith grad who said their school had a similar policy. They had a similar opinion of the cheating level there. I guess it's a small school thing. There's no impression that your classmates are doing it, so the whole "everyone does it, you are at a disadvantage if you don't" thing goes out the window.

I'm telling you, it's not something you can really judge without experiencing it.

You may feel differently when you know your prof well enough that they invite you to Thanksgiving dinner with their kids cuz they know you can't make it home. Then, it's nearly inconceivable to spit in their face by cheating. Plus, if there are <6 students in the class, your prof would probably notice if you performance was highly incongruous with your comprehension. If you can't discuss it intelligently before OR after the exam, and you can't get an A on the problem sets (which allow collaboration, Googling, and plenty of time), it will look weird if you suddenly pull a 98 on the exam with 2hrs and no resources.

I guess it's something you can't understand unless you go to a school like that. My big-school friends on SDN always scoff, but my fellow liberal arts kids seem to feel similarly to me.

It goes both ways...I can't picture seeing my fellow students as competition or worrying about a curve. You only truly understand what you've seen yourself.

Just odd that there's such a dichotomy. Why arent small LAC premeds gunning just as hard? Do you guys not have the same 2/3rds attrition rate?

 

[Gandyy]

Not just mine...there was another thread recently with a Smith grad who said their school had a similar policy. They had a similar opinion of the cheating level there. I guess it's a small school thing. There's no impression that your classmates are doing it, so the whole "everyone does it, you are at a disadvantage if you don't" thing goes out the window.

I'm telling you, it's not something you can really judge without experiencing it.

You may feel differently when you know your prof well enough that they invite you to Thanksgiving dinner with their kids cuz they know you can't make it home. Then, it's nearly inconceivable to spit in their face by cheating. Plus, if there are <6 students in the class, your prof would probably notice if you performance was highly incongruous with your comprehension. If you can't discuss it intelligently before OR after the exam, and you can't get an A on the problem sets (which allow collaboration, Googling, and plenty of time), it will look weird if you suddenly pull a 98 on the exam with 2hrs and no resources.

I guess it's something you can't understand unless you go to a school like that. My big-school friends on SDN always scoff, but my fellow liberal arts kids seem to feel similarly to me.

It goes both ways...I can't picture seeing my fellow students as competition or worrying about a curve. You only truly understand what you've seen yourself.

Man that does sound special. Meanwhile at my local state school our organic professor won't round up my 89.5 to a 90. Ok ill stop being bitter about organic 2 now.


No really I've wondered what it would be like to go to a very small 4 year as a pre med. we didn't have relationships like that with our professors. Not with 400 to 600 class sizes in one auditorium

 

[northernlights15]

Did you go to a LAC? @mehc012

Kids there really do obey the honor code. If the professors tell you to give yourself a 2 hr time limit for a take home exam, most kids do indeed follow it.

 

[mehc012]

Man that does sound special. Meanwhile at my local state school our organic professor won't round up my 89.5 to a 90. Ok ill stop being bitter about organic 2 now.


No really I've wondered what it would be like to go to a very small 4 year as a pre med. we didn't have relationships like that with our professors. Not with 400 to 600 class sizes in one auditorium

600? That's more than my entire graduating class! I suppose it's hardly surprising that the experience is different, huh? There are definite advantages to each, of course!

Just odd that there's such a dichotomy. Why arent small LAC premeds gunning just as hard? Do you guys not have the same 2/3rds attrition rate?

Wouldn't know. I didn't even know many of my classmates were premed until they would suddenly post "Got into UCSF/Harvard!" or some other crazy good school that I would usually associate with the gunner/neurotic type. I have no clue which of my classmates were A/B/C students, and only knew a few premeds who openly identified as such. Coursework was something you guys did collaboratively (at least in the same room for study breaks/morale) or helped your friend out with ("she has a 24-hr take-home right now, so let's go get food from the late night counter and bring it back so she can take a break")...or else it was something you did by yourself. But the back end? Grades? Never mentioned. Maybe it's because there was no curve?

So, yeah...I don't know who started out as premed, nor how they did on their courses. I know we have a great acceptance rate, and most of the alums I see in med school are in excellent programs! Perhaps cutthroat gunning isn't necessary for going into medicine?

 

[efle]

Perhaps cutthroat gunning isn't necessary for going into medicine?

lies

 

[moisne]

I answer truthfully, but vaguely. If they don't wanna know more, they won't ask. My most common response to this question is actually 'meh'.
I'm not sure anyone has asked me this since high school (other than the MCAT...premeds go crazy asking about the MCAT). And again, I see no reason not to simply be honest. If they can't respond in a mature manner to a question they asked me, that's something I'd like to know about them and will affect our future interactions.
Again, not a common question...and again, why would I lie?
This may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You actually make up fake names to give to people? There's this great feature on Facebook where you can...not accept friend requests if you don't want to. It's like the whole phone number thing: you can just say 'no' when someone asks. No need to give them a fake unless you actually fear a violent reaction...and I strongly recommend not asking for LORs from people who you have lied to in order to avoid a violent reaction!



Seriously, why go through the effort of lying on such simple, meaningless questions? If you don't want to socialize, don't go out. If you do, why be so weird about talking to people?

And in a professional context, there's no reason to be lying at all. It's perfectly legitimate to keep some things private, but making up a response is inappropriate. If you don't want to answer, it's perfectly socially acceptable to hedge: "oh, I got the score I wanted," or "I didn't score as well as I was hoping, but I think I did well enough to get in" or even just "fine." The funny thing is, odds are most docs couldn't tell you whether a 30 or a 33 was a particularly good score anyway...all of mine have seemed incredibly out of touch on the matter, and they're not particularly old!

I guess you have never been pestered (they don't settle for "oh I did ok") by gunners or have a guy you met at a bar show up at your work the next day. Or have a stalker track you down - even with a fake name. What a lucky person.

It's a good thing you don't have that experience and you never said a white lie.

 

[mehc012]

I guess you have never been pestered (they don't settle for "oh I did ok") by gunners or have a guy you met at a bar show up at your work the next day. Or have a stalker track you down - even with a fake name. What a lucky person.

It's a good thing you don't have that experience and you never said a white lie.

If they ask again, I tell them. I don't have anything to hide. If I hedge, it's to protect their ego, not mine. If I do poorly, I tell them the first time they ask...most people like to hear that you did worse than them.
I checked my SAT scores with my entire 30 person Comp Sci course crowded around my computer in high school, because I went to school with nosy gunners back then. I chose a college without that atmosphere, so it hasn't been an issue in the past several years.

You're right, I've never had a guy show up at my work the next day. I don't see how they could...if they ask for my name, they get it. If they ask for my address, they don't get it. I don't have to lie, I just decline to give them that information. It's not that hard. If they try to friend me on facebook (necessary to see my work), I can reject it. And if they somehow still show up in the lobby, well, they were a) very lucky to catch me on a day I was working there, and b) very stupid to try and approach me at a place full of my colleagues who support me. I've been followed by people, but in that case what I said to them wasn't what helped them track me.

All of my real stalkers/harassers have been people who already know me, and a few people I mistakenly gave my phone number to (you can block calls though, so after a day or so I just do that). I guess I'm just not drop-dead gorgeous enough to compel total strangers to jump through hoops to track me down

I'm not saying I've never told a white lie, but if you're routinely lying during common small-talk, on things as dead-stupid-simple as your friggin name, that sounds very atypical and problematic.

 

[moisne]

If they ask again, I tell them. I don't have anything to hide. If I hedge, it's to protect their ego, not mine. If I do poorly, I tell them the first time they ask...most people like to hear that you did worse than them.
I checked my SAT scores with my entire 30 person Comp Sci course crowded around my computer in high school, because I went to school with nosy gunners back then. I chose a college without that atmosphere, so it hasn't been an issue in the past several years.

You're right, I've never had a guy show up at my work the next day. I don't see how they could...if they ask for my name, they get it. If they ask for my address, they don't get it. I don't have to lie, I just decline to give them that information. It's not that hard. If they try to friend me on facebook (necessary to see my work), I can reject it. And if they somehow still show up in the lobby, well, they were a) very lucky to catch me on a day I was working there, and b) very stupid to try and approach me at a place full of my colleagues who support me. I've been followed by people, but in that case what I said to them wasn't what helped them track me.

All of my real stalkers/harassers have been people who already know me, and a few people I mistakenly gave my phone number to (you can block calls though, so after a day or so I just do that). I guess I'm just not drop-dead gorgeous enough to compel total strangers to jump through hoops to track me down

I'm not saying I've never told a white lie, but if you're routinely lying during common small-talk, on things as dead-stupid-simple as your friggin name, that sounds very atypical and problematic.

OP and I are not as great as you.

 

[mehc012]

OP and I are not as great as you.

You're the one being tracked down with great effort by complete strangers who know you only by a fake name. Are you secretly a Hollywood movie star? There's got to be something wondrous to inspire such passion after only cursory interactions!

 

[moisne]

You're the one being tracked down with great effort by complete strangers who know you only by a fake name. Are you secretly a Hollywood movie star? There's got to be something wondrous to inspire such passion after only cursory interactions!

No I live in a shi**y city... There are creepers :/ I can't afford to live in nicer place

 

[mehc012]

No I live in a shi**y city... There are creepers :/ I can't afford to live in nicer place

Fair enough. FWIW, I totally understand that creepers be creepin'. I just figure they'll do their thing either way so I just do my usual anyway. Also, I'm a boring shut-in, so I don't go to bars unless someone has dragged me out I get my socialization with a few close friends (they have kids, so any places we go are typically pre-vetted for sketch) and sports.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Not just mine...there was another thread recently with a Smith grad who said their school had a similar policy. They had a similar opinion of the cheating level there. I guess it's a small school thing. There's no impression that your classmates are doing it, so the whole "everyone does it, you are at a disadvantage if you don't" thing goes out the window.

I'm telling you, it's not something you can really judge without experiencing it.

I'm at a private school with a similar code and most people follow it. I know some people who work with testing services and they say they do catch people cheating but not a whole lot. There isn't a feeling like you're behind the curve if you don't cheat.