Marian's Master's of Biomedical Sciences (2018-2019)

[Pediatrics-Cas]

I wanted to make this thread to give anyone thinking of coming to Marian's MBS program a chance to know the truth beforehand.

Overall: Would I recommend the program to anyone? No.

I attended Marian's BMS program, like many students in the class, to better prepare my application for medical school. I didn't do great in undergrad, and I wanted a chance to redeem myself, particularly my GPA.... I applied pretty late in spring semester to many master's/post bacs and ultimately settled on Marian as it was the only program with direct linkage to accept me. I chose Marian among other Master's programs without linkage because they at least guaranteed an interview for people who achieved a 3.5+ GPA the fall semester. I had spoke with a friend of a friend who attended their program when it was still a post-bacc, only certificate granting. Their results were impressive. Out of their less than 60 students, 24 interviewed and 21 were accepted. They went down to GPA’s as low as 3.22 for that semester, and as low as 495 MCAT. For ACCEPTED students!! I mean I was sold, I went in thinking I just had to be top 3rd of my class in order to get in. But there were so many changes for my incoming class that the program I had heard of was indeed not the one I attended. Marians BMS program is a chicken scratch make shift program only looking for your money. The education we are receiving is not worth it, and for an academic enhancing program, nearly half of the class shouldn’t be on academic probation.

First, the class before me when it was still a post bac only had 3 classes. Fall = medical Microbiology, medical Biochemistry, and physio/pharm and for spring: medical immunology, molecular bio/genetics, and physio/pharm. Each class coming in at 4 credits. I’m not sure how much their tuition was but I imagine it was still relatively pricey. For the master’s now, we had 5 classes + seminar for a total of 16 credits each semester, and a capstone project for the summer which is basically a literature review. Tuition for fall and spring is 15k each, ( each credit hour is about 940$), summer is an additional ~6k. So we are already at ~36k just for tuition not including living expenses and such which easily adds to 50,000 dollars total. Considering Marian is a relatively new DO program, and thus considered “lower tier,” I would recommend taking your money elsewhere.

Anyways, the price isn’t even part of why I don’t recommend it. It’s what you get for the price. In order to make it the program a Master’s, (and thus take more of your money) they added in a seminar and an “Anatomy/Histology/Embryology”(I and II) and “Biostatistics” and “Epidemiology” classes. It is clear that the program doesn’t care about their students and just hired whatever professor was available. Anatomy class is canceled often or goes on for a short amount of time. Students are trying to learn new material, to expand our medical knowledge and have a real taste of what medical school is. We don’t have any assigned books for these classes and We have about 6 different professors for this class depending on material. Half are engaging, brilliant awesome professors. The other half talk so much nonsense and fast that it is nearly impossible to catch up in class. The slides are pointless…. Sporadic, filled with nothing but images and most that aren’t even covered or mentioned or acknowledged. In addition to non teaching, the questions some professors put on the exam are completely medical school level without the medical school instruction. I know what you’re thinking. Maybe students aren’t studying or paying attention. Wrong. Considering most students this is their last final shot at medical school and have a hefty 50K loan taken out for this program, students are studying. Its the lack of organization and expectations in the class that make it impossible to do well. Granted they do curve, however, do we really want a grade based on how many people fail or what we earn? Or do we want to develop the critical thinking and study skills to do well in medical school in the future.

Then there is biostatistics and epidemiology. These would be the easy” classes of the program as they are not hard sciences. But it’s anything but that. The professor doesn’t even teach, he just reads crap off his slides and does random “discussion active learning” sessions where no one pays attention and its not relevant to his exams what so ever. I wouldn’t have a problem if this was an easy class but the exams are ridiculous. They have so many grammar and spelling and contexts errors, some problems are unsolvable due to professor error in writing and not proofreading. Even math problems are wrong in answers and calculations. EXAMS. THAT THE PROFESSORS WRITES. Not to mention, averages are below 60 and he curves 30 points. be prepared to learn absolutely nothing. This semester he decided not to curve, and the average was a 66%. (a failing average as Marian only has A , B , C and <70% is an F) not to mention, that attendance is mandatory for this class. If the professor I am learning from can’t even correctly make an answer key for specificity and sensitivity or at least spell “learned instead of learnt” then I’m not sure what program I’m attending.

Then there’s seminar, on a Friday afternoon. We have guest lecturers come in and I won’t lie, some are pretty captivating. However, many people just talking about their research, or how to write a personal statement (months after we should have submitted), how to study effectively (in the second semester….), and other things that just aren’t worth spending an hour on. (in my opinion) Be prepared to just doodle on your phone the entire time. In addition, lecturers often go way beyond over class time, I’m talking 10-20 minutes.

The only good thing about this program would be the biochemistry/molecular bio professor and the physio/pharmacology professor. They actually care about our learning. They facilitate the complexity of the course, they have clear powerpoints, activities, no attendance required. They are total sweet hearts and I 100% feel comfortable asking them questions and would recommend them to anyone i know. Granted they do talk a little fast but you can always refer to recorded lectures instead. But for these classes, if you study and know you’re stuff you will get an A. My favorite 2 courses probably of all my academic career, I have learned so much from them, so so so much. I am honored and privileged to have learned and been challenged by these professors!

For immunology/ microbiology, the only reason people passed microbiology was because of sketchy micro- a series of videos using mnemonics and pictures to help you remember different bacteria, viruses, fungi etc. The professor decided to do student presentations every lecture after the first exam, so we were basically being taught by ourselves. It was tragic. The book is so long and dense and boring and she only tested on sketchy micro (a resource she didn’t explicitly say to study until people caught on). For immunology, the material is fun, however she goes out of her way to make learning harder by cropping out images and captions on her powerpoints. Sure, it could be active learning by making us take notes but don’t block out half of pictures and words. In addition to going to class, now I have to spend another 2 hours going back and trying to write down everything that was said. its a shame because the professor is a great lecturer but she makes the course more difficult than it has to be.

Overall, this program is a hot mess. We only have a certain amount of time a week to study, shower, and sleep- you can forget about having a life. That’s fine though, as future physicians we signed up for that commitment. But go take your money elsewhere to a program thats well structured. We, the guinea pig class got screwed over. And for those who want to know about the stats so far, I think 17 people interviewed the first day, a few more throughout. I would say no more than 25 out of our starting class of about 70. Many people dropped out of the program either throughout fall semester and even more so spring semester. So far I think 7 got in?? not including some people who legit got 4.0 the fall semester. People who are brilliant, funny, accomplished, (they got waitlisted the year before and did this program to increase their chances). our idea is that they will likely accept a handful more so the stats are reasonable, because they know that no one will attend their program afterwards if no one gets in. The problem is that they are making it impossible for other students to attend different medical schools, if half the class is failing epidemiology and other easy classes (while Acing the hard sciences like biochem and immunology and pharmacology). This is supposed to be an academic enhancing program, and nearly half the class is on academic probation (below a 3.0).

So sorry this rant is sporadic and unorganized, but it really resembles the chicken scratch program Marian has going on. Seriously, save your money and go to a well established program.

ALSO i think the stats they have on their website is misleading. they will claim other people’s success attributed to their program, like people who got interviews and accepted before the fall semester even ended, so whatever stats are posted online about students attending other medical schools, they are misleading. in addition, they state 85% of students went on to medical, PROFESSIONAL, OR GRADUATE SCHOOL. i overlooked this initially. many of my peers will be attending different graduate programs for a second chance in a different program, or continuing onto the thesis-research track at Marian, thus, "85% success rate" . i only know about 1/6 of the class who got accepted into medical school, either at marian or other places, and they had great stats prior. I only know of 1 person from my class who was accepted into marian with having a "low" undergrad and "low" mcat score.

so if you were thinking of coming here, please look into other options. there are better structured and reputable programs with sufficient resources and experience to enhance your medical school application. if i could turn back time i would have waited for another program to accept me. don't take this 50k risk until changes are made to the program. it is sad really, because there is so much potential, but students have brought up concerns, and nothing has been done.

SO RUN. THE OTHER DIRECTION. AS FAST AS YOU CAN. WITH YOUR 50,000.

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[go_hoosiers94]

I would not recommend this program whatsoever. I am a current student and the level of unprofessionalism and lack of organization by some of the professors is appalling.

Personally, the statistics and anatomy courses were put together so last minute, there is little to no resources to back student understanding and learning.

The stats professor has changed our syllabus 4 different times in one semester thus far. FOUR syllabus changes in one semester. Changes included addition of student presentations halfway through the semester and alteration of an attendance policy from non-mandatory to mandatory with administered quizzes. This changed the grading scale as well.

The level of retaliatory behavior displayed by some professors hinders students from voicing their concerns. Many students, including myself, fear being black-listed or threatened with professionalism violations placed on their records. Two of the 5 professors teaching in the program are not receptive to student feedback. At the beginning of this spring semester, one professor presented to the entire class copied and pasted student course comments from fall course evaluations. The professor then preceded to dissect, dismiss, and criticize the student comments and told these students that they were wrong for making these statements. Many of these students who made these comments for the fall course were all in sitting in the classroom for this spring course as well. This was by far the one of the most demoralizing educational experiences I have ever had. Lowest standards of professionalism and respect for student privacy.

Furthermore, the stats exams for last semester and this semester have all had failing class exam averages. This past midterm exam had an average of 67%. The exam in question had numerous spelling, grammatical, and syntax errors and mis-guided questions asking for answers to incorrect formulas. There were no corrections for these mistakes made by the professor. At the end of the exam, only 2 out of 75 or so students had finished the exam itself. To my knowledge, no one else was able to complete the exam, leaving several questions unanswered and negatively affecting our grades.

When I inquired as to why these exams were not proofread before exam administration, I was told that this professor is the only one in the department, therefore there is no one else to proofread exams. I said the exams should be taken to the undergraduate math department for clarifications and proofreading but no such raparations have occurred.

Some professors abuse the concept of “active adult learning” and assign additional lectures/podcasts outside of class time. These classes are 3 credit hours each for presenting 3 credit hours worth of class material WITHIN THE TIME OF THE CLASS. Many classes are closer to 4-5 credit hours worth of work instead of their assigned 3. During one stats lecture the professor told us that if we read the book we can do “active learning” outside of class time for an 80 slide lecture, which he would not be presenting in his allotted lecture time. Instead, this the professor decided to use 50 minutes of classtime for an ungraded “active learning in-class discussion”.

Overall, at $940 PER CREDIT HOUR this program is pricey and NOT worth the value you pay for and we’re promised. This is a classic bait and switch program where they prey on vulnerable students and laugh all the way to the bank while doing it. Take your money elesewhere to another program that has the resources to support and facilitate student learning with professors that will treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve.

 

[MedGurlJSK]

I came to the Marian University BMS Program with the expectation that I will be given resources, mentors and the education to prepare me to do well in medical school, and that if I did well in the program, I would matriculate into the medical school. There are less than 15 students who have been accepted, out of our class of 75 people as of now. Many students have dropped the program and many dropped multiple courses because it is impossible to do well in all these classes with the amount of direction/ resources we have.

The biggest thing for me was that they stress professionalism so much, but how is it professional for a professor to sit in class on his phone while students are giving presentations? While the medical school may be treated and taught differently, I feel it speaks volumes about the school if they cannot treat their BMS students with the same level of respect and care they give their students in these professional programs. I have not felt that the BMS program was a priority for them. When asked why they took such few students from the BMS program into the medical school they said that there were a lot of good candidates that applied from outside the program. In that case, I do not understand what the point of having this program is… Unless they simply created this program for the money?!

That being said, physiology/ pharmacology and biochemistry/ molecular genetics are taught by two great professors who really seem to care about your well being and are the light in this place. These courses give you the resources you need to succeed and also challenge you to become a better learner. Microbiology/ immunology has potential, but the powerpoints are uninformative. The professor boxes out words on images, she has whole slides with no information… Just a blank slide. So when you’re trying to sit in class and pay attention/ take notes, you are distracted by the fact that there is nothing to take notes on. You have to spend at least an hour and a half outside of class time unboxing things and screenshotting her powerpoint to add onto your own just for it to make sense. There were random syllabus changes in a few classes well into the semester. These changes were not minor, but in fact required us to take pop-quizzes and give presentations. I have learned absolutely nothing in the epidemiology/ statistics course. The exam averages were well below failing. He refuses to curve the 67% average for the last exam. Anatomy also has so little direction I feel I have learned minimal anatomy that will be helpful in medical school. Both epidemiology and anatomy have been a huge waste of money.

Before you 100% commit, ask the university questions like how many BMS students matriculated into Marian’s medical school, how many students dropped the program, how many students dropped courses, etc. Also realize they may inflate their numbers by taking credit for students who got into OTHER medical schools on their own merits.

So in complete fairness, do I think I am better prepared for medical school after this program? Yes, because I learned how to study myself. If I had the chance to do this over again, would I? No. There are many other places that can teach you the same, while still allowing you to keep your mental and physical health… and your $50,000. Still after reading all these posts (and look at RateMyProfessors while you’re at it), you decide to come here, I wish you the best. Get ready to learn by yourself, it’s a good time.

 

[Batman23]

I am also a current first year BMS student and thought that I would contribute my two cents on the program for what it's worth:


So there are several students in the program who, for whatever reasons/extenuating circumstances, need to improve their GPA in order to become a better med school applicant. Students who are in this category find some source of hope in master’s programs such as this one to get a sort of second chance. We all have reasons in our personal lives that could prevent us from performing well - it's not always just because we were “immature” or “partied all the time” like the admissions committees would like to label us. I’m not going to get into that right now but the point that I’m trying to make is that for a category of students, these programs, theoretically, provide a “way out” of sorts. There are some students in the program that I know of who moved from all over the country, uprooted their lives, left jobs, family, etc. and made a huge investment (i.e. took out a 50k loan) in their future to work hard to become a better applicant. In short, I will prove to you in the points discussed below why this program should NOT be your first choice for a second chance type masters program if you fall into the category that I mentioned above - or, lets just be honest, any category of medical school applicant.

1. I will start of by mentioning the GOOD aspects of this program. The physio/pharm course taught in this program is, by far, the best aspect. The instructor, first and foremost, genuinely cares about both the success and well-being of the student body. Her door is literally and figuratively always open for students to get help with content, ask advice, just chat with, or simply to get some coffee. Aside from that, she is an amazing lecturer and is a well-respected researcher in her field and this is proven by the fact that she actually also lectures in the D.O. program. Secondly, the biochem/MBG instructor is the second-best aspect of the program. Although he can be somewhat disorganized at times, I feel that it is just a reflection of his scattered personality and extreme enthusiasm for his field. He is EXTREMELY receptive to criticism and is very open to suggestions. In fact, there have been instances in which he will move an entire exam or a quiz just because we asked him to because it would make our lives easier. Both of the instructors that I just mentioned are also lecturers in the D.O. program and genuinely care about the program - in fact, both of them helped start the program in the beginning. I must note that the reason that I didn’t mention the physio/pharm instructor being open to criticism is because there is literally nothing to criticize - she runs her course perfectly and I don’t think there is even a way to do it better than she does. Thirdly, the program director, although he doesn’t lecture us a whole lot, is also extremely open to criticism and I believe that he also genuinely cares about both the success and well-being of his student body.

Okay, now for the bad stuff…

1. I’ll start with the LEAST bad aspect (but still pretty bad honestly…), in my opinion. This revolves around the microbiology/immunology course. First of all, the most unprofessional thing about this course and its instructor is that if she doesn’t like you (for whatever reason), you are doomed. Period. Doesn’t matter your merit as a student. If she finds a reason to not like you, good luck you will need it. Secondly, as if her subject wasn’t difficult and convoluted enough, she goes literally out of her way to make it even more complicated than it should be and she, for whatever reason, does this under the guise of “this is how it's done in medical school.”I’m not sure how she would know that if she has never even taught in a medical school class before but I digress…. Our first semester was taught entirely from student presentations, as my colleagues above noted. She allowed the students to make their own objectives and literally sat in the back of the room and didn't say a word. In fact, there were several times that I saw her actually making notes for immunology the next semester during these presentations. There were several presentations in which the students taught and she just stood up at the end, didn’t say a word, and left without providing any feedback like, you know, “yeah the students gave you correct info” and other stuff that I guess was just unimportant. In fact, the most that she ever said after a presentation was regarding the optimal temperature at which to cook a steak….She also would periodically ask for feedback but then would be completely non-receptive of it….in fact, I would daresay she even retaliated against the student body in passive aggressive ways such as making questions that you would only get by watching sketchy micro and then once we started using that as a resource, she changed again.
   
   
2. My next issue with this program was perhaps the worst experience of my academic career thus far: the stats/epidemiology/public health course and its instructor. Where to begin, I guess I’ll start in the classroom. This instructor thinks the best way to present information is to copy a paragraph from the textbook, re-phrase it in a way that doesn’t make any sense, sprinkle in a few grammatical/syntax errors to add that final layer of confusion, and then just reads it in class. He then takes that same poorly phrased/worded paragraph and puts it on an exam question. Oh but wait, there's more. He then makes the multiple choices have another changed word or phrase and you have to pick the ones that are true (all answers can be selected btw - a students favorite type of question). If you can even get past just understanding what the question is even asking and what the answer choices are even saying, you can do better than pretty much the entire class. After that you then have to be able to recall both the actual paragraph from the book AND his poorly rephrased, grammatically incorrect version from the powerpoint to get the question right. May the force be with you...Oh and then there was the final. He said he learned from his mistake from the first exam and that he made it “easier” by having a matching section...Oh but it was far from easy. Remember those convoluted paragraphs I just talked about? Yeah he picked random words from those paragraphs and we essentially just had to match them to the other part of that sentence. My biggest example of this was he simply had “interaction” and we had to match it to one of the arbitrary, loosely copied sentences from the textbook. Also, he developed a habit as the semester progressed of deciding to ridicule individuals in front of the class if they got a question wrong. He would do this by uncomfortably asking a student to go stand in the corner or do push-ups down in front of him if they got the question wrong. This made me so uncomfortable that I would dread going to class more and more as the semester went on. I’m sorry guys, but that was just the first semester…..Next semester, he decided to change it up. On the first day of class, he decided to pick thirty or so examples of course feedback comments and post them on a powerpoint. Now, of course there were a few unprofessional comments that maybe could have been presented in a more professional way, but there were even more genuine, professionally written comments that brought up legitimate concerns with the course that he simply said “ um that's not true.” Okay, so thirty people say literally the same things (and that's just the ones he put on his powerpoint) but for some reason they are all untrue? Yeah so he started off the second semester by saying “you guys had a failing average for both of my exams last semester that I had to curve upwards of thirty points on, and you all said the same comments on my review. Okay, I’m going to laugh at it, not change a thing, and in fact make your lives more difficult by retaliating against you.” A colleague of mine above mentioned that he violated his own stated course rule in his own syllabus and changed it about 3-4 times throughout the semester, I agree with my colleagues assertion in this. He not only changed his own attendance policy, he punished the people who missed the previously ALLOWED missed class days by making them present in front of the class to get the points back. Our first exam of the spring semester went about as poorly as the exams from the first semester did although this time he decided he wasn’t going to curve. Just as you would expect, the average was a 66.53% (we round to the nearest hundredth place in BMS..) which is, as you know a FAILING average. He announced to the class that he omitted two questions due to poor stats (despite the fact that 60% of his grouped objectives had a failing score) and accepted multiple answers on 4 of the multiple choice but then didn’t curve the exam. He also manually accepted answers that could be due to “errors in rounding” although did not decide that it was pertinent to reveal his formula with the class. What was interesting to me was that during the exam review, I personally had almost every question marked wrong….based on what I had as marked wrong plus what he said he corrected, I should have made an extremely worse grade on that exam than the already horrible one that was reported. But wait, I just said he didn’t curve right? That’s correct, he didn’t curve. It gets better, there were other students who revealed that they also had around the same amount of questions missed but somehow got literally 10-30 points higher than I did on the overall score just from him omitting 2 questions and changing 4 to accept multiple answers and arbitrarily accepting certain people’s numbers. To top it all off, the instructor vehemently REFUSED to reveal which questions he omitted, which ones he accepted multiple answers for and how far off your answer had to be from the correct one for him to consider it simply an error in rounding. After pondering all of these inconsistencies with this exam the only logical conclusion that would make sense to me is that he made individual adjustments for each student in the absence of any overall standardized scoring system. There are some serious potential concerns with that….and this was yet ANOTHER instructor who justified their actions under the banner of “this is how medical school does it.” - now there are two separate instructors in the BMS program who use this as an excuse to treat students poorly (the only two instructors in the masters program who do NOT teach in the D.O. program, I might add). What hurts the most about everything that I just mentioned about this course is that students were crying for help from the faculty and medical school since even the beginning of the program but nothing was done until it was too late and people’s grades, and thus futures, were sealed by making a poor grade in this course.
   
   
3. My last point is that certain instructors tried with every fiber of their being to run this program as if it were an authoritarian state with secret “professionalism police” running around and if you said anything negative about the program, you were blacklisted. This is absolutely appalling to me. Ruling through fear and hate to the point that students were too afraid to even ask for help is NOT the way to run a successful program. Especially considering the extreme amount of emotional duress that students in these types of programs are under. I would go so far as to say that it's actually rather cruel the way some instructors retaliated against the students and made their lives harder than they had to be.

I know this post was long, drawn-out and emotionally driven - I haven’t even covered everything. I apologize for this. But I decided to write all of this to give you guys a brutally honest, brief summary of my experience with the BMS program at Marian. Always remember that this is just my interpretation of my experience with the program so please, take it with a grain of salt. My goal is just to provide you with honest opinions from which you can draw your own conclusions and make your own decision. I wish you the best of luck with getting into medical school and if you need one of these programs to be a more competitive applicant, my advice to you is to look elsewhere to save yourself an exorbitant amount of undue, undeserved and unnecessary anguish.

 

[KEPT]

Damn that’s terrible. I’m sorry for what you guys had to for through.

 

[drummerphysician]

I am another first year BMS student, and I just wanted to get on here to add in my two cents as well. What people are saying above it true. Avoid this program.

Good aspects:
There are two profs in this program who are absolutely stellar. Honestly, I feel bad that they have to be associated with this mess. They were two of the originals when the program started. Note, this is the first year the program has switched to being offered as a one year masters. Previously this was a certificate program. Those two profs genuinely care about student success and seem to have firm handles on how to be good educators. They're open to feedback and do try to help students. I wish the Phys/Pharm prof would just take this trainwreck over and run it right.

Honestly...my list of good pretty much stops there.

This program is hella expensive. Including housing/food, you're looking at about $50,000. If I could turn back time, I'd rather just light $50,000 on fire than give it to this place.

Two of our professors are not only bad at their jobs as lectures, they are also genuinely unhelpful and unkind people. They have no clue what the word "professionalism" means, yet have frequently berated students for "unprofessional conduct." And in case you wonder what unprofessional conduct is - it's anything from going to office hours to ask clarifying questions, or raising concerns about questions/syllabi changes/etc. You heard that correctly - we'd had syllabi changes mid-semester. One of our profs planned an "active learning activity" over VDJ. She didn't prep the students for the activity, it was the first time she'd run the activity, and also invited COM staff to come sit in on it. It was a completely new structure to what previous ALAs had been, and was also on the day of a major exam in another class. She stumbled through explaining the activity, and obviously the COM faculty weren't impressed with how the day went. Instead of owning up to her mistakes of preparing an absolute flop of a lecture, she berated us that we didn't come prepared and proceeded to in-state pop quizzes. Sorry you looked bad in front of COM profs, but it's not our fault you failed to prepare us for that day OR prepare your lecture appropriately. She also made us redo this activity during another class time. (She posted the lecture we were supposed to have for us to do outside of class time instead.) This same prof posted three lectures over our spring break and sent an email telling our class that "adulting sucks, sometimes" referring to the work we'd have to do over break. Honestly, the work is a crappy thing to do considering that course is on supposed to be 3 credit hours, but also, I don't mind the work. I mind the way we are treated. I mind that we feel like we cant speak up about how we're being treated for fear of being black-listed from this or any COM. By the way, this same prof is also on the admissions committee here at Marian. Not only is that a gross conflict of interest, it also puts students in a very uncomfortable spot. She's been essentially abusing this position of power, and most students have been too afraid of repercussions to act.

Problem prof two is a first year teacher at our master's program. 1st year... Why on Earth is there an unsupervised 1st year professor in a master's program?! His lectures are copy and pasted from online textbooks and then just read to us as a class. Most of our exams with him last semester had failing averages, but he put gross curves on them to make them look acceptable. I'm talking 30% curves. This semester, he refused to curve our exams, even when the average on the first exam was a 67% (a failing grade in this program.) This class isn't molecular bio or genetics or phys or ANYTHING hard...it's Epidemiology. The exam was a disaster. There were actual questions on there that could not be answered or that he calculated wrong himself. He was super unclear on how he accepted answers, and honestly, I hope someone goes back to have a good hard look at those. He refuses to answer a straight-forward question about adjustments, and I want to make sure everyone is actually getting the grade they should have. Aside from that, he added students presentations part way into this semester (as in, added them to the syllabus). The first group was only given two days notice. These 30 minutes presentations are worth no grade, but he will frequently attempt to extend the groups time by asking questions so that he doesn't have to lecture his full hour and fifteen minutes. He changed the attendance policy after the course had started, and has since added a make-up assignment for people who missed class. This time feels like an awkward public shaming session, and it shouldn't be happening to begin with.

So many people have been forced to drop this program because of how poorly it is being run and what is being allowed to transpire. I keep seeing stats that say "85% placement rate in medical and professional programs" and I keep wondering "What?!" Honestly...I'd love if Marian would let people know where and how they are getting those numbers. I'd also like to know how many students started this program as intended (5 classes + seminar) in the fall and how many are still in 5 classes + seminar.

(If I had the time, I could make this post 4x as long with plenty more examples of the disaster this has been. Unfortunately, I'm still enduring this torture, and I can't afford to study less than 10-12 hours a day, so I have to get back to it.)

We're being told that not much will be able to be changed for us or for next year because that's just how academia works. Honestly, if they don't figure out this mess and do some serious damage control in the next month, I'd be shocked if they have a program at all next year. I wouldn't recommend this experience to anyone. It has been demoralizing AT BEST, but the word I'd use at this point is closer to "scam." Take your money and your sanity somewhere else. Keep in mind, this program is VERY different from what it has been in the past. If you're still thinking about doing it, talk to someone who has been in the program you'll be a part of - talk to anyone from this year's class. Those who were here the last last few years had a very different experience from us because the program was very different from what it is now. Ask questions about the stats from the admission office, and don't take "we're not sure" as an answer. There are so many good people who I know would make excellent physicians who will never see medical school because of this program. Please, please heed the advice you've read and go to any other master's program.

I apologize this post has been somewhat emotionally charged, but I am angry. I am upset. I feel lied to and cheated. Marian was my top choice medical school going into this year...now I'm doubting this whole place.

 

[go_hoosiers94]

In light of the end of this spring semester of 2019, the Marian BMS program is still in shambles. The administration has attempted to make lackluster reparations for students who have suffered under this unorganized and unprofessional ponzi scheme of a program. On the very last day of classes (Thursday, April 25) the administration brought in an outside consultant in order to hear our experiences and frustrations with the two professors that have made this program utterly unbearable and a poor excuse for a post-bacc program. The consultant was extremely professional and receptive to the evidence students had provided about the unprofessional nature of this program and how, we the students, have been scammed and cheated.

The entire lecture hall was full of over 70 students who were willing to offer their testimonies to the consultant. The vast majority of students present were first years who had experienced the disaster of this curriculum and experienced first hand the unprofessional and retaliatory behavior of the Statistics/Epidemiology professor and the Microbiology/Immunology professor. Many of the second years were only present because they had only heard about the meeting through a secondary notice, less than a day before, that requested RSVP's from students so they could have enough pizza delivered to the meeting. This is just a small taste of the BMS program's unorganized communication and failures to facilitate student learning.

The consultant was in utter disbelief of the experiences that students had shared with him in just the matter of one hour. Reports ranged from the second years explaining how the Immunology/Microbiology professor had them sing the "Otter Song" to the professor in front of her office in order to acquire a letter of recommendation last year. This professor is still employed by the university despite her utter lack of respect and dignity for her students and for the university's principles. Other reports ranged from the Statistics/Epidemiology professor plagiarizing his own lectures from the textbook as well as John Hopkins lectures and he presented the information as his own. This professor also presented an unscheduled lecture that was not on the syllabus about plagiarism. His lecture about plagiarism was PLAGIARIZED from resources such as the Purdue OWL as well as the Indiana University Writing center. Despite this unprecedented level of unprofessionalism, this professor is still employed by the university and allowed to hold a position of power of students' grades. After the midterm several students had to drop the epidemiology course because no one could get a clear answer of whether this professor had awarded points to student exams like he said he had. During the secure review, several students were allowed to ask questions and compare answers to questions. Several students had gotten the same questions and the same number of questions incorrect, but yet their scores were different by double-digits. No student could receive a clear answer or complete assurance that this professor had in fact awarded points for the short answer math problems that we had to type in. To this day, I still have no idea whether the validity of my exam was true to what he had stated. No student in that class had any way to ensure or double check that our scores were in fact correct. No one else in administration would double check the validity of scores and the validity of the exam itself after several students complained about the discrepancies in scores.

In light of these few examples (there are so many more, that this post would take several pages) the consultant was stating how he would advise changes for next year's BMS class, but we, the current students, were all wondering how we could be helped at all. Many students said that the sheer lack of organization, professionalism, and respect for student rights, classes should be curved. Current students deserve strong reparations in the courses taught by these two professors. These two professors have absolutely no respect for students nor do they have any respect for students' rights within the classroom, rights to effective use of classroom time, or rights to one syllabus with an agreed upon attendance, grading, and course structure policies. The Epidemiology/Statistics as well as the Microbiology/Immunology professors disregard or pervert all of the principles of a learning environment centered around professionalism, respect, and dignity for the student inside and outside of the classroom.

The epidemiology/statistics professor changed the Epidemiology course syllabus FOUR DIFFERENT TIMES. These changes included adding student presentations halfway through the semester, changing the attendance policy from non-mandatory to mandatory, and adding quizzes halfway through the semester as well. The Microbiology/Immunology professor added quizzes halfway through the semester as punishment for students not being prepared for a 1 point "active learning activity" that was in the middle of a week that had 4 exams. This activity covered VDJ recombination in immunology that is perhaps one of the most confusing and difficult topics in the field of immunology. The professor retaliated because the activity did not go well in front of the Medical School professors she invited. This professor did not informat students that she had invited COM faculty. This professor made several mistakes during the activity and mostly likely blamed the students for her mistakes. We were given one lecture to prepare for an entire activity and she was angry with us that it did not go well in front of the COM faculty. In addition to the punishment quizzes she also recorded and assigned 3 different 1-hour long podcasts for us to watch, learn, and teach to ourselves over spring break. These lectures were punishment and were not was not originally scheduled on the syllabus or the university calendar. We were then given "pop-quizzes" every day of class the week after spring break. The immunology/microbiology professor intentionally covers up and hides information by blocking figure captions and labeling on her powerpoints. She also intentionally scrambles figures and images and provides students with powerpoints that are missing slides that she only presents in her version of the notes. I have never met a professor that has gone so far out of her way to hinder student access to information and learning in my entire educational career, both as a student and a teacher myself.

The list of unprofessionalism and retaliatory behavior of these professors goes on and on.

After students provided countless examples and pieces of evidence in this meeting, the consultant was understandably shocked and had no idea how to proceed in order to help current students. We strongly encouraged and pleaded that our grades be curved in order to somewhat make up for the abuse, disrespect, and utter lack of professional behavior students had to endure from these professors.

The dean and Director of the BMS program sent out an email with less than desirable "updates" about the progress of the program. They merely changed the requirements for being placed under "Academic Probation" to "Academic Warning" when students received less than a 3.0 per semester. In contrast to the previous policy, when one received a C or attained less than a 3.0, the student was automatically placed on "Academic Probation." The email also stated that the Director of the BMS program and Dean would reach out to programs in which students were on the waitlist for medical school. They stated the following: "Any BMS student that is currently on a “Wait List or Alternate List” at any medical school or other professional or graduate school may contact [Director of BMS Program] to ask that the Admissions Office of that institution be contacted to explain: The rigorous grading scale / system that we utilized during the Fall Semester 2018 that resulted in GPAs that appear low on transcripts but are in fact competitive when evaluated using MU norm-referenced criteria."

This seems absolutely ridiculous that this should have to occur. Why would Marian not design a BMS program that delivered on what they originally advertised to students? At the open house and orientation, this program was falsely sold as a GPA-building opportunity with rigorous guidance, access to resources, and instruction from competent, caring, and professional professors. There were only two professors who did their job and did it well, this would be the Biochem/Molecular Genetics professor and the Physiology/Pharmacology professor. Despite these two wonderful people, the Microbiology/Immunology professor and the Statistics/Epidemiology professor have gone out of their way to destroy students' performance in their classes and subsequently have also negatively impacted student's GPA's and their chances of success in future endeavors.

Although the regular academic year has concluded, students now have to pay for a 6-credit hour capstone in which we will write our capstone research papers. Priced at nearly $1,000 per credit hour, I now have to pay almost $6,000 to write a 15-page paper. I am fairly certain this capstone is 6 credit hours in order to charge students more money and also to meet the credit hour requirements for a graduate degree granting program.

I would not recommend this program to anyone, not even my worst enemy. The administration only started to notice/listen to students after they started posting public comments on forums such as this. Marian University BMS is a SCAM. They have incompetent professors who abuse their power over students. Avoid this place at all costs. I have hurt my chances at re-applying to medical school through this program that was falsely advertised to help build my application and chances of admittance to medical school. The two professors of the Statistics/Epidemiology and the Microbiology/Immunology courses have taken it upon themselves to weed out students and hurt their futures. Administration chose to be negligent in their oversight of these professor's abuse of power. These two retaliatory individuals abused their power over students by changing the syllabus, grading scales, attendance policies, and implementing intentional academic punishments within the classroom.

RUN THE OTHER DIRECTION LIKE YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE! I genuinely mean this with my whole heart as a lover of science, medicine, and someone who treats people with dignity and respect. If you are searching for a program that has the resources and professors to help guide you professionally and academically, this is NOT the program for you. The Epidemiology/Statistics and the Microbiology/Immunology professor ruin any decent aspect this program claims to have had. Take your $50,000 and put it towards another program.

 

[AdultLearner]

I would proceed with caution before you decide to attend Marian’s BMS program. Though the program has several good parts, I think we are all well aware of how very little it takes to keep someone out of medical school.


In this program we have two great professors. The professor for Physiology and Pharmacology works tirelessly to advocate for her students and to help them be successful. She is the true definition of what a professor should be. The professor for Biochem is also a very nice guy who really does care about his students. However, these two things begin to lose meaning when you have two professors who are actively working against their students and have egos that are so big they get in the way of any possible reparations to the problems they have created.

The epidemiology professor is a first year professor, so normally I would be all about giving grace to someone who is still learning and getting into their field. However, he doesn’t seem to believe that there are any possible improvements to be made to his work and that any problems we have are caused by us. When he received his feedback via the anonymous surveys at the end of the fall semester, he elected to take that feedback, copy and past large sections from it to put on PowerPoint slides for the first day of class, where he would spend over twenty minutes talking about how the feedback was untrue or unprofessional, when in reality, they were just true pieces of feedback that may have hurt his feelings. He even went so far as to ask that the student who wrote one piece of feedback to come forward so that he would know to avoid them in the future as a physician, which is not only grossly unprofessional, but also an attempt to breach the very serious confidentiality in those evaluations. In the fall semester he was teaching Biostatistics, and that is not his field of expertise, so when he had most of his slides copied straight out of the textbook and read directly from those slides, I would chalk it up to unfamiliarity with the material, and hoped for a stronger spring semester in epidemiology. Epidemiology should have been much better, as the professor does have a Masters in Public Health, but the same thing happened again. PowerPoint slides were copied out of the book or off of some online resource, and he read them straight of the slides if he covered them at all. A couple of weeks into the spring semester, this professor decided to implement 30 minute group presentations. The first issue I want to address with this was the change in syllabus. This presentation was not for a grade, but it did end up making every single class mandatory for every student. By the end of the semester this professor had put up four different syllabi, and the final one up was also incorrect, making it difficult to understand where the grades were coming from. His exams were completely incomprehensible, the English was barely readable. The exam averages were steadily at a failing grade, and in general required somewhere around a 30 point curve to make the scores adequate. The biggest issue that I saw with this professor however, was laziness. We had several homework assignments in both stats and epidemiology, and he had students grade each other’s homework, so in addition to having the required assignment to complete, I had to grade two other students’ homework in stats and five other students’ homework in epidemiology. His first epidemiology exam was the epitome of laziness. There were almost exclusively select-all-that-apply answers for that exam, which meant that he could take four bullet points from his slides and only have to come up with one or two additional answers instead of having to write a bunch of separate answer choices. Then there were the fill-in-the-blank questions. One of which had fourteen blanks and required that you know how to do only two calculations. That meant that if you didn’t know how to do those calculations, you automatically lost over 28% of your test grade. He demonstrated no respect for students as people, exemplified when he scrolled through his phone for the entirety of one student presentation and when he was absent for nearly half of another. He was given a position of power, and was left unsupervised and clearly couldn’t handle it. I just don’t see a lot of hope for a first year professor who thinks they have no room for improvement.

The Microbiology and Immunology professor was inexcusably vindictive and went out of her way to ensure that students struggled to succeed in her course. She taught maybe six microbiology lectures, and left the rest to be student presentations. And I do get that micro is kind of hard to lecture, but she also never gave us any direction on what we should study or what was important. If we tried to ask her what was important, she would assume we didn’t care about the material and tell us that everything is important and that we were complaining too much or ‘wanted our hands held’ or needed to be ‘spoon-fed’, when in reality we just wanted some direction, because though I think everyone understands the value of the information, at the end of the day we still have to take an exam, and each exam had the potential to change our ability to get into medical school. Luckily for us, SketchyMicro exists and told us everything we needed to know, but I frankly couldn’t tell you what she did all day because she didn’t teach her class. However, the issues with micro couldn’t hold a candle to the problems that would arise spring semester in Immunology. I have genuinely never believed that a professor was actively working against me, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was working against her students in this course from day one. She provided us with one recommended reading textbook, but pulled her figures and exam questions almost exclusively from another textbook which wasn’t even on the recommended reading list. We just happened to find it just before the first exam so that we could look through things like captions on the figures. Another major issue was that she gave us slides that were completely different from the ones she used in class. There was important information that she covered up with boxes on the slides, she put essentially no text on the slides, and there were even instances where she would put the different boxes from one figure on a slide in the wrong order or with several pieces missing. It was almost like she had a fear of accidentally giving us information that would be helpful on the exam. She also had these “Active Learning Activities” or ALAs where we would work in groups to talk through the information. This would be a solid idea if she were engaged in the activities, or if we weren’t expected to have memorized every detail from the assigned text for the class. There was one particular ALA where we talked through a particularly challenging and important topic. We had an activity that we did as a class and for numerous reasons (including but not limited to: having the fourth exam of the week ten minutes after that class finished, a poorly organized activity, and no notice of what the activity was going to be prior to class) that activity did not go well. I won’t say that there was no student fault in the activity going poorly, but she didn’t assume any of the blame for it. She informed us the next class that since we came so unprepared to that class, she was going to employ the use of pop quizzes on ALA days to ensure that we came prepared for the activities. These quizzes absolutely wrecked grades until she was forced to give full credit for the ones given and stop giving them all together. There is one particular instance where on a five question quiz, two answers came from one sentence on one PowerPoint slide, so if you chose not to memorize that sentence, you lost two points (40%). She also took to recording hour long podcasts to have us listen to prior to our ALAs, making our course more like a 6 credit hour course than 3. She gave us three podcasts to watch over spring break and in the email where she informed us that we were going to have to do that work over break she said “adulting sucks sometimes” which I found to be grossly unprofessional and entirely unnecessary. She yawned countless times throughout her recorded lectures, but the one that really took the cake was when she decided to eat an entire meal while recording the lecture. For more than 30 minutes of the lecture, we had to listen to her chewing and lecturing with her mouth full. Those are some examples of how she elected to conduct her course and she decided to really go out with a bang by giving us a final that included many topics she barely touched on or didn’t touch at all. Additionally, one week prior to the final, we were informed that our ‘cumulative’ final was going to be 7 cumulative questions with 48 questions that were new material, meaning that many students wasted time preparing for a cumulative final when it was not, in reality, cumulative at all. Then, on the morning of the final, at 7:20 am we received an email that said that she would be holding office hours from 8:00 to 11:00 that day if we had any questions. If you ask me, that isn’t helpful because there is not nearly enough time to ask questions and figure things out the day of the exam.

If Marian decides to wake up and get rid of those two and find two professors who are willing to do any amount of work and who want to see their students succeed, they will have a wonderful program on their hands. But if they keep those two working in this program, it doesn’t stand a chance and neither do its students.

 

[Coffee_addict77]

Oh dear, I got accepted to the BMS program at Marian University yesterday. I just read the posts about and now I am a bit hesitant to attend there. What was it like being a student there? In your class, do you know how many students got accepted to the medical school? They are making us pay full tuition to be enrolled by next week and I am not quite sure what to do. I am between Marian and the Biomedical Masters Program at University of Pittsburgh. One of the reasons why I applied to the program is the linkage with their medical school (with 3.5 GPA and 495 MCAT, it's a guarantee interview). Is that still applicable? And despite the lack of professionalism, are they considering making any improvements? Did it hurt your medical school applications?

 

[Pediatrics-Cas]

Personally, I would not recommend this program to anyone. It's extremely expensive and they have been deceiving students with their statistics and promises. They consistently told us during orientation that if we met the requirements and did well in the program, everyone could stay "theoretically." There are people who got 3.8-3.9 in the program with MD level MCAT scores and were not accepted. The program itself, 2018-2019, lacked structure and i'm not sure what they have done to fix that. You could ask them how their program has changed, and decide on the risk of attending the program based on that, by believing the words of people who just want your paycheck. Since you already have another acceptance to a master's at a diff school...I'm not sure why would would risk coming here. Yes, it did hurt some students applications that did not do well. These special master's programs have a special "rep" since they are supposed to simulate medical/professional school levels classes and show you can succeed. If a student does not do well- they just proved they can't succeed in medical school, think about it. I'm sure there were a handful of students who generally aren't cut out for it, but like many people, the lack of structure and organization in the program and some of the professors specifically that make it seem like they're out to doom your grades- just doesn't help with the pressure of 5 grad level classes we have to take. Everyone applied to their program because of the linkage, because of the "85% of students bla bla bla", because they heard so many great things from the previous classes, and because it genuinely seems like a second chance. I think of the >70 students that attended, maybe 15 got accepted? Most which were on the waitlist from last year got accepted after doing the program. Granted, I will not be biased. I worked my butt off and I really did improve my GPA compared to my undergrad years and i am grateful for that opportunity. While I was not accepted to the program, I am hoping to re-apply this cycle to a broad range of schools and pray for the best. Would I come here again if i could turn back time? Absolutely NOT. I feel like i wasted 50,000 because i could have improved my GPA in any other program and perhaps even done better. I would go to a different program or wait for a better linkage program to accept me, like LECOM. Best of luck in your decision. (i would really go to pittsburgh though lol) feel free to message me if you have any other questions. don't ignore these red flags, unless you have 50k to burn and are willing to risk your entire medical career

 

[dochopeful1460]

Apparently good amount (like 70%+) that interviewed from the program this past year got into mu-com and the rest are on the waitlist. Anyone know a little about these students? did they already have good scores/gpa before the program? Im assuming they were the ones usually doing well in the classes you mentioned with the harsh professors? If there were 70+ ppl to start out like you mentioned, then over half of them didnt interview, but it seems that if you can get an interview, you have a good shot.

Also any updates on what they may change this upcoming year? Will the professors still be there, but maybe change their grading style?

A 3.5 is pretty high so I wonder if people can briefly speak about each class in the fall, how hard it is to get an A (specifically in each class), how many classes do you take in the fall.

Ill accept PMs as well for anyone who takes the time to answer my questions thanks

 

[Batman23]

Apparently good amount (like 70%+) that interviewed from the program this past year got into mu-com and the rest are on the waitlist. Anyone know a little about these students? did they already have good scores/gpa before the program? Im assuming they were the ones usually doing well in the classes you mentioned with the harsh professors? If there were 70+ ppl to start out like you mentioned, then over half of them didnt interview, but it seems that if you can get an interview, you have a good shot.

Also any updates on what they may change this upcoming year? Will the professors still be there, but maybe change their grading style?

A 3.5 is pretty high so I wonder if people can briefly speak about each class in the fall, how hard it is to get an A (specifically in each class), how many classes do you take in the fall.

Ill accept PMs as well for anyone who takes the time to answer my questions thanks

It's not letting me start a conversation with you for some reason...send me a message and I can answer most if not all of your questions!

 

[wannabeadoc9]

Apparently good amount (like 70%+) that interviewed from the program this past year got into mu-com and the rest are on the waitlist. Anyone know a little about these students? did they already have good scores/gpa before the program? Im assuming they were the ones usually doing well in the classes you mentioned with the harsh professors? If there were 70+ ppl to start out like you mentioned, then over half of them didnt interview, but it seems that if you can get an interview, you have a good shot.

Also any updates on what they may change this upcoming year? Will the professors still be there, but maybe change their grading style?

A 3.5 is pretty high so I wonder if people can briefly speak about each class in the fall, how hard it is to get an A (specifically in each class), how many classes do you take in the fall.

Ill accept PMs as well for anyone who takes the time to answer my questions thanks

Just wondering if you heard anything about this post because I was also admitted and interested in hearing the response.. thanks so much!

 

[hoosiers4life]

Hello, I am currently enrolled in this program and I can vouch for the fact that many changes have been made. That being said, there are some changes that still need to occur. Starting with the micro/immunology prof. I still do not understand how she kept her job after everything that happened and how she still has a job now. She began fall semester with someone who would basically "babysit" her each lecture and sit in and observe. That has changed this semester, and while she is not the course director, she should be removed from this program completely. Her exams consistently have the lowest average simply because she likes to make the exams so difficult and completely blindside her students. Even now she adds in fill in the blanks to rebel back against the fact that she lost her course director privileges and this is rather evident by the way she speaks about things. Even though someone is overseeing her, she still remains to be the only professor who puts fill in the blanks on her exams. For a program that is advertising how much they want to prepare you for BOARDS style exam questions, this should be fixed. She is not friendly and is not a resource there to help students. A student asked in lecture if some of the material presented in the giant table was testable or more as a resource and she couldn't even give a straight answer. I do not understand how she is still teaching in this program.

The anatomy program has completely changed with a wonderful addition of a new professor. She is kind, compassionate, and truly does her best to make sure everyone understands the material and has the tools they need to succeed. As the other posts have mentioned, the Phys/Pharm prof and the Molecular/Biochem prof are absolutely amazing and continue to be bright lights within this program along with the new anatomy professor. The statistics professor also lost the ability to be the course director which lead to a vast improvement in the cirriculum and the exams. Very easy to get an A if you put in the effort for this class. A new addition this year has been nutritional biochemistry which is still a work in progress. The class got off to a rough start but the professor admitted that was his issue and has committed himself to making sure we understand the material and slowing things down a bit. If only the immunology/micro prof could take lessons from him and learn some accountability.

Overall I have found the program helpful, however there is still a lot of work to be done. It would almost be worth doing the two year route simply to avoid mico/immunology altogether.

 

[Premed_2020!]

Oh dear, I got accepted to the BMS program at Marian University yesterday. I just read the posts about and now I am a bit hesitant to attend there. What was it like being a student there? In your class, do you know how many students got accepted to the medical school? They are making us pay full tuition to be enrolled by next week and I am not quite sure what to do. I am between Marian and the Biomedical Masters Program at University of Pittsburgh. One of the reasons why I applied to the program is the linkage with their medical school (with 3.5 GPA and 495 MCAT, it's a guarantee interview). Is that still applicable? And despite the lack of professionalism, are they considering making any improvements? Did it hurt your medical school applications?

Do you mind sharing your stats?

 

[Startingover123]

Just wondering if you heard anything about this post because I was also admitted and interested in hearing the response.. thanks so much!

How strong is the linkage??

 

[Coffee_addict77]

Do you mind sharing your stats?

yea! 3.4 gpa, 3.2 sgpa, 160 GRE. no MCAT

 

[Kakashi2016]

Reviews from current student in the BMS program ?

 

[medicalgal3]

Hello everyone, I am also a current student in Marian's BMS program. I agree in saying that many changes have been made this year for this program, but there is still a lot of work to be done. I feel that this program has given students a head start when it comes to study techniques and biomedical knowledge for medical school, but I would honestly recommend picking a different school/BMS program.

The profs/directors try their best to make it known that they care about student input and complaints, but changes were not often taken into consideration this year. The biochem, genetics, pharm, and anatomy professors are all wonderful and TRULY care about each and every student, but the program and school itself felt like a complete money grab. I believe this was mostly due to the fact that the communication here is absolutely horrendous. Which is not good for a school that is supposed to be training future medical professionals. One of my classmates was misguided multiple times about financial things by multiple different people, exam review structure was constantly changing (prior to Covid), and communication between directors and exam proctors was terrible all year.

Another FYI is that A LOT of students ended up switching to the 2-year option due to awful teaching in Micro (although she is now leaving) or due to low GPA, a couple dropped the program, and some decided to switch to pursuing PA over medical school. BMS professors were also shocked to learn that certain students in our BMS cohort either didn't receive an interview for MU-COM or were put on the waitlist with a good GPA/MCAT. One student mentioned that Marian may decide to turn down students that were already accepted elsewhere so their stats look better for the BMS program getting students into med school. I really hope that's not the case.

 

[yikes!]

Hey guys! I was in the BMS program this year. I agree with my fellow classmates that there were some effective changes this year, but for the amount of money you pay to go to this school, I don't think they've done nearly enough yet.

Most of the professors are wonderful people that truly want their students to succeed; however, I am so disappointed that the university knew how bad things were with the immunology/microbiology professor and continued to allow her to teach us with little changes to her curriculum. She intentionally misled students multiple times, telling us we would not be tested over something and then making that particular thing be the majority of our exam. She has blamed the exam questions on other people, even though she is the one writing them. The person overseeing her class this past semester, while an incredible professor herself, was not an expert in immunology so there was no way for her to know if something we were being tested on was unfair or not in line with our learning objectives. It's to be expected that there should be a lot of independent learning outside of class in a graduate program; that said, this particular professor sent out a message that she didn't want us emailing her clarifying questions anymore, and that as grad students we should be capable of referring to the literature for answers. Referring to literature is fine if I need a deeper understanding of a concept, but it isn't going to clear up any of the misleading things written directly on her slides. This created a really uncomfortable environment, in my opinion. Although that immunology professor will not be teaching here in the future, I am still disheartened by the fact that things could remain so consistently bad for so long, and I feel their lack of action is representative of deeper communication issues. I truly hope the school makes a better effort in the future to address these serious curriculum/faculty issues as they arise, because doing poorly in even one class can affect your chances of getting into medical school. I know a lot of people who had to switch to the two year track because of their performance in her class, so even though it might not seem bad for there to be just one awful class, it has a huge financial and academic impact.

The program itself has the potential to be great and I do think it's on its way, but it remains incredibly unorganized. Our exam review structure was constantly changing, and it felt like none of the faculty and directors were speaking to each other, because they all would say different things. For any university, especially one charging that much in tuition, I expected the highest level of professionalism and education, and was continuously let down. I also know several people who are still trying to get financial things sorted out from the fall semester, so it seems like these major gaps in communication are on all fronts and that is unacceptable.

I didn't see the SDN posts until after I enrolled at Marian, and was very nervous to attend. I did learn a lot this year, got the grades I wanted after some very long nights, am on track to achieve my professional goals, and am grateful for the support of most of my professors. The new anatomy professor is one of the sweetest, most caring people I have had the pleasure of learning from. She provided us with all of the resources we would need to do well in her class, and made immediate positive changes after receiving feedback. Our pharm professor has personally made my experience at this school worthwhile. She has been so supportive of my academic and professional journey, and is someone that I know will continue to be supportive even after I graduate. The biochem and genetics professor is challenging, but he genuinely wants us to succeed. I don't love the way he writes some of his questions (they're all paragraphs long), but anything he tests on is explicitly covered in class and can be found in his notes, which I appreciate. The statistics/epidemiology professor made a lot of changes after last year's feedback, and I enjoyed learning from him as well. He is funny and does his best to keep us engaged. You still have to work hard and study, but it is relatively easy to get a high A or B in his class. Almost everyone seems to want the best for us, but the ones who don't are going to prevent this program from adequately preparing students for medical or other professional schools.

They did make a lot of changes and improvements since last year and I have to applaud them on that. I probably would not recommend this program to my friends in its current state, but if the BMS faculty make a better effort to communicate with each other, the medical school admissions board, and with the students, I am hopeful that future classes will have a more positive experience. That said, if you do decide to go here, it won't be the worst thing in the world. You will obviously have to work hard, like in any grad program, you just might have a few more frustrating roadblocks to overcome. Hopefully each successive class will have fewer and fewer of these roadblocks as the program continues to evolve. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

 

[ItsDOCseason]

Hey guys! I was in the BMS program this year. I agree with my fellow classmates that there were some effective changes this year, but for the amount of money you pay to go to this school, I don't think they've done nearly enough yet.

Most of the professors are wonderful people that truly want their students to succeed; however, I am so disappointed that the university knew how bad things were with the immunology/microbiology professor and continued to allow her to teach us with little changes to her curriculum. She intentionally misled students multiple times, telling us we would not be tested over something and then making that particular thing be the majority of our exam. She has blamed the exam questions on other people, even though she is the one writing them. The person overseeing her class this past semester, while an incredible professor herself, was not an expert in immunology so there was no way for her to know if something we were being tested on was unfair or not in line with our learning objectives. It's to be expected that there should be a lot of independent learning outside of class in a graduate program; that said, this particular professor sent out a message that she didn't want us emailing her clarifying questions anymore, and that as grad students we should be capable of referring to the literature for answers. Referring to literature is fine if I need a deeper understanding of a concept, but it isn't going to clear up any of the misleading things written directly on her slides. This created a really uncomfortable environment, in my opinion. Although that immunology professor will not be teaching here in the future, I am still disheartened by the fact that things could remain so consistently bad for so long, and I feel their lack of action is representative of deeper communication issues. I truly hope the school makes a better effort in the future to address these serious curriculum/faculty issues as they arise, because doing poorly in even one class can affect your chances of getting into medical school. I know a lot of people who had to switch to the two year track because of their performance in her class, so even though it might not seem bad for there to be just one awful class, it has a huge financial and academic impact.

The program itself has the potential to be great and I do think it's on its way, but it remains incredibly unorganized. Our exam review structure was constantly changing, and it felt like none of the faculty and directors were speaking to each other, because they all would say different things. For any university, especially one charging that much in tuition, I expected the highest level of professionalism and education, and was continuously let down. I also know several people who are still trying to get financial things sorted out from the fall semester, so it seems like these major gaps in communication are on all fronts and that is unacceptable.

I didn't see the SDN posts until after I enrolled at Marian, and was very nervous to attend. I did learn a lot this year, got the grades I wanted after some very long nights, am on track to achieve my professional goals, and am grateful for the support of most of my professors. The new anatomy professor is one of the sweetest, most caring people I have had the pleasure of learning from. She provided us with all of the resources we would need to do well in her class, and made immediate positive changes after receiving feedback. Our pharm professor has personally made my experience at this school worthwhile. She has been so supportive of my academic and professional journey, and is someone that I know will continue to be supportive even after I graduate. The biochem and genetics professor is challenging, but he genuinely wants us to succeed. I don't love the way he writes some of his questions (they're all paragraphs long), but anything he tests on is explicitly covered in class and can be found in his notes, which I appreciate. The statistics/epidemiology professor made a lot of changes after last year's feedback, and I enjoyed learning from him as well. He is funny and does his best to keep us engaged. You still have to work hard and study, but it is relatively easy to get a high A or B in his class. Almost everyone seems to want the best for us, but the ones who don't are going to prevent this program from adequately preparing students for medical or other professional schools.

They did make a lot of changes and improvements since last year and I have to applaud them on that. I probably would not recommend this program to my friends in its current state, but if the BMS faculty make a better effort to communicate with each other, the medical school admissions board, and with the students, I am hopeful that future classes will have a more positive experience. That said, if you do decide to go here, it won't be the worst thing in the world. You will obviously have to work hard, like in any grad program, you just might have a few more frustrating roadblocks to overcome. Hopefully each successive class will have fewer and fewer of these roadblocks as the program continues to evolve. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Thank you for your feedback on the program! its definitely appreciated. Would you mind sharing if there were as many students who dropped or switched from 1 to 2 year program compared to last year? I want to apply but i'm a bit nervous now.

 

[Premed_2020!]

Hey guys! I was in the BMS program this year. I agree with my fellow classmates that there were some effective changes this year, but for the amount of money you pay to go to this school, I don't think they've done nearly enough yet.

Most of the professors are wonderful people that truly want their students to succeed; however, I am so disappointed that the university knew how bad things were with the immunology/microbiology professor and continued to allow her to teach us with little changes to her curriculum. She intentionally misled students multiple times, telling us we would not be tested over something and then making that particular thing be the majority of our exam. She has blamed the exam questions on other people, even though she is the one writing them. The person overseeing her class this past semester, while an incredible professor herself, was not an expert in immunology so there was no way for her to know if something we were being tested on was unfair or not in line with our learning objectives. It's to be expected that there should be a lot of independent learning outside of class in a graduate program; that said, this particular professor sent out a message that she didn't want us emailing her clarifying questions anymore, and that as grad students we should be capable of referring to the literature for answers. Referring to literature is fine if I need a deeper understanding of a concept, but it isn't going to clear up any of the misleading things written directly on her slides. This created a really uncomfortable environment, in my opinion. Although that immunology professor will not be teaching here in the future, I am still disheartened by the fact that things could remain so consistently bad for so long, and I feel their lack of action is representative of deeper communication issues. I truly hope the school makes a better effort in the future to address these serious curriculum/faculty issues as they arise, because doing poorly in even one class can affect your chances of getting into medical school. I know a lot of people who had to switch to the two year track because of their performance in her class, so even though it might not seem bad for there to be just one awful class, it has a huge financial and academic impact.

The program itself has the potential to be great and I do think it's on its way, but it remains incredibly unorganized. Our exam review structure was constantly changing, and it felt like none of the faculty and directors were speaking to each other, because they all would say different things. For any university, especially one charging that much in tuition, I expected the highest level of professionalism and education, and was continuously let down. I also know several people who are still trying to get financial things sorted out from the fall semester, so it seems like these major gaps in communication are on all fronts and that is unacceptable.

I didn't see the SDN posts until after I enrolled at Marian, and was very nervous to attend. I did learn a lot this year, got the grades I wanted after some very long nights, am on track to achieve my professional goals, and am grateful for the support of most of my professors. The new anatomy professor is one of the sweetest, most caring people I have had the pleasure of learning from. She provided us with all of the resources we would need to do well in her class, and made immediate positive changes after receiving feedback. Our pharm professor has personally made my experience at this school worthwhile. She has been so supportive of my academic and professional journey, and is someone that I know will continue to be supportive even after I graduate. The biochem and genetics professor is challenging, but he genuinely wants us to succeed. I don't love the way he writes some of his questions (they're all paragraphs long), but anything he tests on is explicitly covered in class and can be found in his notes, which I appreciate. The statistics/epidemiology professor made a lot of changes after last year's feedback, and I enjoyed learning from him as well. He is funny and does his best to keep us engaged. You still have to work hard and study, but it is relatively easy to get a high A or B in his class. Almost everyone seems to want the best for us, but the ones who don't are going to prevent this program from adequately preparing students for medical or other professional schools.

They did make a lot of changes and improvements since last year and I have to applaud them on that. I probably would not recommend this program to my friends in its current state, but if the BMS faculty make a better effort to communicate with each other, the medical school admissions board, and with the students, I am hopeful that future classes will have a more positive experience. That said, if you do decide to go here, it won't be the worst thing in the world. You will obviously have to work hard, like in any grad program, you just might have a few more frustrating roadblocks to overcome. Hopefully each successive class will have fewer and fewer of these roadblocks as the program continues to evolve. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

After reading the feedbacks, I'm very nervous about applying. Do you know how many people matriculated into the DO program after the one year masters?

 

[Coffee_addict77]

After reading the feedbacks, I'm very nervous about applying. Do you know how many people matriculated into the DO program after the one year masters?

I was also in the same boat as you last year, and I ended up not going there. I will be going to a different program this year!

 

[yikes!]

After reading the feedbacks, I'm very nervous about applying. Do you know how many people matriculated into the DO program after the one year masters?

I don't know the exact number who have been accepted to Marian's DO program yet; people are still being pulled off the waitlist. I think a ballpark number is +/-20 at this point, just based on who I've talked to so far.

One recurring theme from the faculty that talked to us this year is that Marian is very much trying to build their stats as a medical school. It seems like the MCAT and GPA are becoming increasingly important for them, so I don't really know how strong the linkage is between the BMS program and the medical school. Most kids in the program are in BMS because of lower MCAT scores or GPAs from undergrad, and we were under the impression that if you could demonstrate your strength in a challenging graduate program like this, that's what you would be evaluated on. Unfortunately, it felt like the admissions committee still valued MCAT and GPA more than the fact that you were successful in BMS (which is another example of a major communication issue), which was constantly reinforced by us being told that "you can't raise the dead." Even if you met the 3.5 GPA and MCAT score needed for the automatic interview, if you are on the low end of those stats you will probably be waitlisted, regardless of how well you do here.

If you do decide to go to Marian for BMS, I would suggest applying to other DO programs as well. The interviewers at other DO schools seem to be well aware of how bad things have been in the BMS program in the past, and seem to appreciate successful BMS students more than the actual Marian DO admissions boards. At least that's my opinion, my other classmates may feel differently.

This is a challenging program, but you will learn a ton and will have to develop a lot of new study strategies. Classes will hopefully be much better once the immuno prof is replaced. If this is your only/top choice, it won't be nearly as bad as it was before and I do think you can take a lot of good things away from this experience. Just be careful not to put all of your eggs in their basket when applying to med schools.

 

[yikes!]

Thank you for your feedback on the program! its definitely appreciated. Would you mind sharing if there were as many students who dropped or switched from 1 to 2 year program compared to last year? I want to apply but i'm a bit nervous now.

I don't know exact numbers from last year's class or this year's class. I do know we started out with 60ish students in our class and a handful of them were on the 2 year track to start with. After like our second or third exam in the fall, another handful had to switch tracks. I am hoping that whoever they find as a replacement for immuno/micro is a better teacher and that future classes won't struggle as much.

Things were leaps and bounds better for us than they were for the previous year, and I hope if the university truly cares about the success of its students and its program that it will continue to improve.

 

[SHNONATO]

Hello everyone,

I did the BMS program at Marian this year. Overall, I would say that I am satisfied with the experience. However, there is still a room for improvement. I was nervous when I read this thread last year but I decided to join anyways and I don’t regret it!

The statistics class is now an elective course and you can take US Health system instead; which is an easy A class and the professor is super thoughtful and professional. My biggest problem was immunology because the professor was very unprofessional. After switching to online classes because of COVID-19, her lectures were longer, and her exams were not related to the material being taught. Her exams would go in depth and be out of scope of things she gone over in lecture. Unfortunately, the course director did not address any of these issues. However, this professor will not be teaching at Marian again. Also, if you do not have the best grades or struggling, you can always switch to two years, which is nice because you still get a chance to proof that you can handle medical school.

Regarding their medical program, many of us got automatic interviews. However, most of us were put on the waitlist. Few people who did not meet the MCAT requirement or the GPA were still offered an interview invitation. So you still have a chance to talk about yourself. While a lot of people were put on the waitlist, many got off the waitlist in early May.

I really love Marian’s philosophy and it is actually my top choice. My advice to you is to try to connect with the admissions, ask them about your stats and your chances, make connections with professors and other medical students over there. Everyone there is very helpful and wants the best for you. They care so much about you and your well-being. Best of luck to you all!

 

[threeohseven]

Hi, I am strongly considering attending this program at Marian because it's one of my best choices (I applied late in the cycle this year). However, this thread is very concerning. It does give me hope that it has improved this past year and most of the professors are good so I am still thinking about committing soon.

Could anyone who attended give me any insight on how much tuition was, and how much your living expenses were (and where you lived on campus)? Also, I'm having trouble finding a class schedule (since I haven't committed yet)--can someone please give me an idea on when I should plan to move there/when classes begin?

Or would you still say the program is so bad that I should steer clear? (My other choices so far: a similar 1 year program at Liberty University in Virginia or a 2 year program at Midwestern University in Illinois. Midwestern seems so expensive though.)

 

[Dr. Determined]

Hey, can you tell me if you filled out your med school app before joining the program or after?

Hello everyone,

I did the BMS program at Marian this year. Overall, I would say that I am satisfied with the experience. However, there is still a room for improvement. I was nervous when I read this thread last year but I decided to join anyways and I don’t regret it!

The statistics class is now an elective course and you can take US Health system instead; which is an easy A class and the professor is super thoughtful and professional. My biggest problem was immunology because the professor was very unprofessional. After switching to online classes because of COVID-19, her lectures were longer, and her exams were not related to the material being taught. Her exams would go in depth and be out of scope of things she gone over in lecture. Unfortunately, the course director did not address any of these issues. However, this professor will not be teaching at Marian again. Also, if you do not have the best grades or struggling, you can always switch to two years, which is nice because you still get a chance to proof that you can handle medical school.

Regarding their medical program, many of us got automatic interviews. However, most of us were put on the waitlist. Few people who did not meet the MCAT requirement or the GPA were still offered an interview invitation. So you still have a chance to talk about yourself. While a lot of people were put on the waitlist, many got off the waitlist in early May.

I really love Marian’s philosophy and it is actually my top choice. My advice to you is to try to connect with the admissions, ask them about your stats and your chances, make connections with professors and other medical students over there. Everyone there is very helpful and wants the best for you. They care so much about you and your well-being. Best of luck to you all!

 

[SHNONATO]

Hey, can you tell me if you filled out your med school app before joining the program or after?

No, Marian's med school application for those in the BMS to qualify for automatic interview was due Dec. 1 so I waited until I was enrolled in the program because I wrote about it in my personal statement. Dec 1 is a little late for other schools so I know some of my friends applied earlier than that.

I would suggest have everything ready during the summer and then have someone from the faculty look over your application, make any changes needed and then submit as soon as you're ready.

 

[Dr. Determined]

Thanks for responding! Did you only apply to Marian or did you apply to other DO and MD schools?

No, Marian's med school application for those in the BMS to qualify for automatic interview was due Dec. 1 so I waited until I was enrolled in the program because I wrote about it in my personal statement. Dec 1 is a little late for other schools so I know some of my friends applied earlier than that.

I would suggest have everything ready during the summer and then have someone from the faculty look over your application, make any changes needed and then submit as soon as you're ready.

 

[sana_p22]

Hi, I am strongly considering attending this program at Marian because it's one of my best choices (I applied late in the cycle this year). However, this thread is very concerning. It does give me hope that it has improved this past year and most of the professors are good so I am still thinking about committing soon.

Could anyone who attended give me any insight on how much tuition was, and how much your living expenses were (and where you lived on campus)? Also, I'm having trouble finding a class schedule (since I haven't committed yet)--can someone please give me an idea on when I should plan to move there/when classes begin?

Or would you still say the program is so bad that I should steer clear? (My other choices so far: a similar 1 year program at Liberty University in Virginia or a 2 year program at Midwestern University in Illinois. Midwestern seems so expensive though.)

Hello, I just got accepted today (6/23/2021), and I would love to have any update before I make my decision, if you can help me.

Thanks so much

 

[Marionquestion]

Hello everyone,

I did the BMS program at Marian this year. Overall, I would say that I am satisfied with the experience. However, there is still a room for improvement. I was nervous when I read this thread last year but I decided to join anyways and I don’t regret it!

The statistics class is now an elective course and you can take US Health system instead; which is an easy A class and the professor is super thoughtful and professional. My biggest problem was immunology because the professor was very unprofessional. After switching to online classes because of COVID-19, her lectures were longer, and her exams were not related to the material being taught. Her exams would go in depth and be out of scope of things she gone over in lecture. Unfortunately, the course director did not address any of these issues. However, this professor will not be teaching at Marian again. Also, if you do not have the best grades or struggling, you can always switch to two years, which is nice because you still get a chance to proof that you can handle medical school.

Regarding their medical program, many of us got automatic interviews. However, most of us were put on the waitlist. Few people who did not meet the MCAT requirement or the GPA were still offered an interview invitation. So you still have a chance to talk about yourself. While a lot of people were put on the waitlist, many got off the waitlist in early May.

I really love Marian’s philosophy and it is actually my top choice. My advice to you is to try to connect with the admissions, ask them about your stats and your chances, make connections with professors and other medical students over there. Everyone there is very helpful and wants the best for you. They care so much about you and your well-being. Best of luck to you all!

Just to be clear, you did the 1 year Master program that was completed in the spring and got of the waitlist and started the DO program 4 months later of the same year (i.e., not a gap until the following year). Please confirm. Thanks.

 

[Ballerdoctor]

Hi, I am strongly considering attending this program at Marian because it's one of my best choices (I applied late in the cycle this year). However, this thread is very concerning. It does give me hope that it has improved this past year and most of the professors are good so I am still thinking about committing soon.

Could anyone who attended give me any insight on how much tuition was, and how much your living expenses were (and where you lived on campus)? Also, I'm having trouble finding a class schedule (since I haven't committed yet)--can someone please give me an idea on when I should plan to move there/when classes begin?

Or would you still say the program is so bad that I should steer clear? (My other choices so far: a similar 1 year program at Liberty University in Virginia or a 2 year program at Midwestern University in Illinois. Midwestern seems so expensive though.)

Hey I’m also conserving attending here. Did you happen to end up going here? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Ballerdoctor]

Hello, I just got accepted today (6/23/2021), and I would love to have any update before I make my decision, if you can help me.

Thanks so much

Hey did you end up attending the program? I know the program seemed to have many concerns from the past, but they seemed to have gotten over the years. Would you be able to offer any Insight if you happened to attend?

 

[Ballerdoctor]

Hello everyone,

I did the BMS program at Marian this year. Overall, I would say that I am satisfied with the experience. However, there is still a room for improvement. I was nervous when I read this thread last year but I decided to join anyways and I don’t regret it!

The statistics class is now an elective course and you can take US Health system instead; which is an easy A class and the professor is super thoughtful and professional. My biggest problem was immunology because the professor was very unprofessional. After switching to online classes because of COVID-19, her lectures were longer, and her exams were not related to the material being taught. Her exams would go in depth and be out of scope of things she gone over in lecture. Unfortunately, the course director did not address any of these issues. However, this professor will not be teaching at Marian again. Also, if you do not have the best grades or struggling, you can always switch to two years, which is nice because you still get a chance to proof that you can handle medical school.

Regarding their medical program, many of us got automatic interviews. However, most of us were put on the waitlist. Few people who did not meet the MCAT requirement or the GPA were still offered an interview invitation. So you still have a chance to talk about yourself. While a lot of people were put on the waitlist, many got off the waitlist in early May.

I really love Marian’s philosophy and it is actually my top choice. My advice to you is to try to connect with the admissions, ask them about your stats and your chances, make connections with professors and other medical students over there. Everyone there is very helpful and wants the best for you. They care so much about you and your well-being. Best of luck to you all!

Hey, would u say most people ended up getting accepted there or other places? I’m currently interested in attending, but the price is expensive and I want to be sure the program will be rewarding if you put in the work.