Masters or PhD for eventual anatomic pathology?

[CrossCassowary]

I'm applying to vet school this cycle and am planning ahead in case I don't get in. My GPA isn't the greatest (Cumulative 3.51; Last 45 3.24; Overall Science 3.36) so I'm considering getting a graduate degree to boost my stats before reapplying. Since I'm interested in eventually specializing in anatomic pathology, I was thinking of hitting two targets in one go by doing a masters or PhD in pathology.

From what I understand, many APs have a PhD, but does anyone know whether a masters would be helpful considering the final goal?

Thanks folks of SDN!

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[LyraGardenia]

I'm applying to vet school this cycle and am planning ahead in case I don't get in. My GPA isn't the greatest (Cumulative 3.51; Last 45 3.24; Overall Science 3.36) so I'm considering getting a graduate degree to boost my stats before reapplying. Since I'm interested in eventually specializing in anatomic pathology, I was thinking of hitting two targets in one go by doing a masters or PhD in pathology.

From what I understand, many APs have a PhD, but does anyone know whether a masters would be helpful considering the final goal?

Thanks folks of SDN!

I'm just going to tag @WhtsThFrequency since she's our path guru!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I'm applying to vet school this cycle and am planning ahead in case I don't get in. My GPA isn't the greatest (Cumulative 3.51; Last 45 3.24; Overall Science 3.36) so I'm considering getting a graduate degree to boost my stats before reapplying. Since I'm interested in eventually specializing in anatomic pathology, I was thinking of hitting two targets in one go by doing a masters or PhD in pathology.

From what I understand, many APs have a PhD, but does anyone know whether a masters would be helpful considering the final goal?

Thanks folks of SDN!

Something to consider is that a large number of anatomic pathology residencies are combined programs right now (i.e. residency + PhD). Because of this, I have heard through the grapevine that some of them (not all) tend to shy away from candidates who already have a PhD because it kind of negates half the program.

Now as a caveat and YMMV - I *do* know of programs that have accepted people that already have PhDs (including my own) so it is not a hard and fast rule by any means. Just something to think about.

Personally, I would go a for a decent thesis MS that you can knock out in 2-3 years, rather than a 5-6 year PhD if your eventual goal is vet school.

 

[CrossCassowary]

Something to consider is that a large number of anatomic pathology residencies are combined programs right now (i.e. residency + PhD). Because of this, I have heard through the grapevine that some of them (not all) tend to shy away from candidates who already have a PhD because it kind of negates half the program.

Now as a caveat and YMMV - I *do* know of programs that have accepted people that already have PhDs (including my own) so it is not a hard and fast rule by any means. Just something to think about.

Personally, I would go a for a decent thesis MS that you can knock out in 2-3 years, rather than a 5-6 year PhD if your eventual goal is vet school.

Thanks WhtsThFrequency for your input! And thanks LyraGardenia for the referral. Yes, a masters is the more attractive option right now, especially given that I'm older than your average applicant. Don't want to delay too much more

Do you know whether the credit/work of the MS would transfer to the combined program (and thereby advance my progress in it or shorten the duration)? Or would I have to do the entire program whether or not I have the MS? And about certificate programs - I found some in clinical path, but are they useful or transferrable at all?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Thanks WhtsThFrequency for your input! And thanks LyraGardenia for the referral. Yes, a masters is the more attractive option right now, especially given that I'm older than your average applicant. Don't want to delay too much more

Do you know whether the credit/work of the MS would transfer to the combined program (and thereby advance my progress in it or shorten the duration)? Or would I have to do the entire program whether or not I have the MS? And about certificate programs - I found some in clinical path, but are they useful or transferrable at all?

I think it can depend. For example, I was able to transfer a certain number of classes I took in vet school into my PhD after residency, which cut down the number of graded classes I had to take and saved me some time (not much, but maybe a year).

I don't know the time limit on it though (i.e. how far back you could apply classes) that would be something that the graduate school would deal with rather than the residency program (you would be "enrolled" in both simultaneously in the combined path programs, if that makes sense).

I don't quite know what you mean by certification programs? Can you give me an example? Do you mean something like a kind of laboratory technician certification?

 

[CrossCassowary]

I don't quite know what you mean by certification programs? Can you give me an example? Do you mean something like a kind of laboratory technician certification?

Here's an example, though for clin path: http://www.umassonline.net/degrees/online-certificate-clinical-pathology

I heard of another student transferring the credits from this program towards a masters.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Huh. I suppose so, although it seems much more geared towards human stuff which wouldn't always be applicable. Perhaps good as some background, though, but I wouldn't think it is any sort of necessity.

Edit: And I wouldn't pay $2000 for it.

 

[CrossCassowary]

Huh. I suppose so, although it seems much more geared towards human stuff which wouldn't always be applicable. Perhaps good as some background, though, but I wouldn't think it is any sort of necessity.

Edit: And I wouldn't pay $2000 for it.

I see. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[starfish229]

Something to consider is that a large number of anatomic pathology residencies are combined programs right now (i.e. residency + PhD). Because of this, I have heard through the grapevine that some of them (not all) tend to shy away from candidates who already have a PhD because it kind of negates half the program.

Hey! I was searching through all the pre-vet threads for info on pathology graduate programs. I started my application for vet schools but I’m having more realistic thoughts about it with all the debt I’ll be in, and I have a hard time picturing myself being happy in vet school and afterwards if I’m already becoming depressed in just the application process. And I’m already in debt from undergrad, so a PhD seems more realistic for me. I want to go into pathology, probably clinical pathology if the program allows for a concentration. Based on your response that I quoted above, I’m wondering if that is only applicable to students who have completed their DVM? Do you know anything about going into pathology without completing a DVM degree?

 

[JaynaAli]

Clinical and anatomic pathology are separate post-DVM specialties. WTF can speak more for what might be available for anatomic path, but non-DVM positions in clinical pathology are basically limited to laboratory staff and having a Med tech degree is what is usually desired for such a position, though on the job training positions sometimes exist. You would be performing lab tests (running chemistry analyzers, evaluating blood smears, performing urinalysis, etc) though, not acting as a pathologist, which is for boarded DVMs...some clinical pathologists have PhDs also (it’s less important than it seems to be for anatomic path), but you can’t be a clinical pathologist without a DVM and residency.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

If you want to go into pathology without a DVM and residency, you'll be limited to technician and assistant positions. You can't be a pathologist without a clinical doctoral degree (i.e. a DVM) and a residency.

A PhD will also not prepare you for clinical-oriented positions. You will be 100% research with little actual veterinary pathology, or at best a working knowledge of pathology only as it relates to a handful of diseases and animal models. Do not, I repeat, do NOT go into research unless you love research and are prepared for a research career. This includes grant writing, paper writing, the one or two 3-4 year post-docs you will need to last a decent research position after your PhD, the fight for tenure, the constant battle for government funding to keep your job, whole shebang.

Source: I spent the last 5 years in a PhD program and the amount of pathology I have done has been almost nothing other than grading slides for studies and voluntary weekend call - and that is as a DACVP doing a post-residency PhD. I'm likely going to have to do some major catching up once I finish if I want to maintain a current body of knowledge from my actual clinical training.