Med student posing nude on reddit

[Anastomoses]

I'd fap to it. Medicine is very conservative. We may debate whether or not it should be this way, but as of right now (and for the forseeable future), it will be like this. But she will have a difficult time finding a residency if this becomes recognizable. Even if she does, she opens herself up to unnecessary sexual advances by superiors/co-workers. Her career advancement may be put in jeapordy until return of a sexual favor (whether intended or not, some guys read into this as a promiscuous nature and try to take advantage. Is it wrong? Yes. Does still happen? Absolutely.) Finally, Nina runs the risk of just not being taken seriously by her colleagues or patients. People do in fact judge books by their covers; it is just fact we have deal with. It's one of the lessons I had to learn, when I went from dressing like a slob to dressing very professionally at my job prior to med school.

This. Totally. I can't respect someone dumb enough to put herself in that position...like she doesn't know there are leery people out there. It happened on this thread like 20 times...guys feeling more inclined to talk about whether she's "fap worthy" should clue her in. Wake up, chick. Reality is calling.

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[Anastomoses]

You comments are pretty pathetic dude. Nina seems to be a lot more well versed, and overall a more intelligent/ cool headed person compare to you. You just sound like a troll who runs his mouth on the internet right now

yeah! Nina for president! lol

 

[ebbandflow83]

This. Totally. I can't respect someone dumb enough to put herself in that position...like she doesn't know there are leery people out there. It happened on this thread like 20 times...guys feeling more inclined to talk about whether she's "fap worthy" should clue her in. Wake up, chick. Reality is calling.

This is an issue for the guys making those statements and not Nina. Just as it would be wrong to blame the victim of a sexual assault, citing how she was dressed for instance, this is a form of blaming the victim. And this is not something that is perpetuated individually. Our society supports such dangerous framing of the situation. As an example, rape prevention classes on campuses are taught by and large to women, covering things that they should do, instead of being aimed at men, the overwhelming perpetrators of such crimes. This article sums up the argument for teaching men instead of (or in addition to) women, and switching the burden of prevention from women to men. Not only does it make sense to reframe the discussion this way from a sociological standpoint, but research shows that putting the onus on males makes them less likely to commit rape themselves and more likely to prevent it should they see it occurring.

This TED Talk by Jackson Katz also makes the argument that gender equality and violence against women is ostensibly a male issue.

 

[NickNaylor]

Since Nina is apparently checking this thread: do YOU have any concerns about being able to interact with patients in the future? GW isn't the smallest medium in the world with a small audience - not only are these being broadcast to a large audience, but you have absolutely no idea what happens to those pictures afterwards. I've read MANY stories of pictures like this ultimately finding their way into seedy porn advertising networks. Do you care about that at all?

I guess that at the end of the day I get that you're essentially sticking it to the man and adopting the whole "it's my body, this isn't abnormal, I do what I want, yadda yadda" attitude, but do you really have zero concerns about how/if this will affect you? I don't think the question of how things SHOULD be - e.g., people shouldn't care about nudes, America should loosen up and distance itself from its Puritan past, etc. - is really all that important.

I think it's great that you're comfortable doing this. I just have to question the wisdom of doing so when it could come back to bite you in the ass in a very real, direct way, and all for... what? It's one things to show boobs without a face. It's quite another to essentially identify yourself. Sure, your exact name isn't out yet, but frankly all it takes is a little effort to find out who you are, and from there all of your personal info is now linked to those pics. Is that not a concern for you? I don't mean to ask that in an accusatory way - I'm genuinely curious.

 

[ajh1983]

Nina, thank you for the 17 seconds of intrigue. Unfortunately, you will not be looked upon in a professional light by your colleagues or patients if you continue to "express" yourself in this way. I see this as attention seeking behavior, not art. You are very cute, but this isn't an undergrad frat party, this is professional school.

Can we close this thread already? Mod? Bueller?

 

[ebbandflow83]

Since Nina is apparently checking this thread: do YOU have any concerns about being able to interact with patients in the future? GW isn't the smallest medium in the world with a small audience - not only are these being broadcast to a large audience, but you have absolutely no idea what happens to those pictures afterwards. I've read MANY stories of pictures like this ultimately finding their way into seedy porn advertising networks. Do you care about that at all?

I guess that at the end of the day I get that you're essentially sticking it to the man and adopting the whole "it's my body, this isn't abnormal, I do what I want, yadda yadda" attitude, but do you really have zero concerns about how/if this will affect you? I don't think the question of how things SHOULD be - e.g., people shouldn't care about nudes, America should loosen up and distance itself from its Puritan past, etc. - is really all that important.

I think it's great that you're comfortable doing this. I just have to question the wisdom of doing so when it could come back to bite you in the ass in a very real, direct way, and all for... what? It's one things to show boobs without a face. It's quite another to essentially identify yourself. Sure, your exact name isn't out yet, but frankly all it takes is a little effort to find out who you are, and from there all of your personal info is now linked to those pics. Is that not a concern for you? I don't mean to ask that in an accusatory way - I'm genuinely curious.

Thanks for bringing up some good counterpoints respectfully. I'll let Nina respond to your specific questions but just wanted to make a point. I think the should question is so much more important then the would question (what will happen/is happening right now) as it is the only thing that we really have that much control over. We do have an influence on how the world is, now and in the future. The discussion is important so that those who think things should be different will not be passive bystanders when they are presented with situations where they may be able to step in and make a difference. Some people (myself included) think that it is unacceptable for something like this to affect someone's career. So stand up for your classmate who is being ridiculed for something in her personal life. Speak out at the admissions committee when it comes up. As you move along in your career, and hold more positions of power, make sure that you set a clear example of treating both colleagues and patients respectfully, regardless of details of their personal life that you may find offensive. It is important to realize that we do not have to accept the status quo.

 

[PrideNeverDie]

is exhibitionism normal?

or is it, in this case, part of being histrionic

SHOTS FIRED!!!

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Thanks for bringing up some good counterpoints respectfully. I'll let Nina respond to your specific questions but just wanted to make a point. I think the should question is so much more important then the would question (what will happen/is happening right now) as it is the only thing that we really have that much control over. We do have an influence on how the world is, now and in the future. The discussion is important so that those who think things should be different will not be passive bystanders when they are presented with situations where they may be able to step in and make a difference. Some people (myself included) think that it is unacceptable for something like this to affect someone's career. So stand up for your classmate who is being ridiculed for something in her personal life. Speak out at the admissions committee when it comes up. As you move along in your career, and hold more positions of power, make sure that you set a clear example of treating both colleagues and patients respectfully, regardless of details of their personal life that you may find offensive. It is important to realize that we do not have to accept the status quo.

Yo thanks for the life advice. Definitely one of the most important issues of our day.
brb wasting my time defending girls posting nudies online.

 

[NickNaylor]

By the way, to prove my point, it took me about 10 minutes for me to figure out your real name and find you on Facebook. I'm by no means the best internet detective, and fortunately I'm not an ******* interested in making someone have a bad day just for the sake of doing so. With the understanding that this is clearly possible, does this bother you at all? Do you have any worries about the professional ramifications of this?

For obvious reasons, no, I will not be sharing this info nor will I tell you how to find it.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I rubbed one out earlier in honor of you babe. Ty for material. Triple A rating. Would invest in your government bonds any day.

I promise you none of your comments are worse than the ones she probably gets on reddit, even though it seems like you're really trying hard here.

There is a subreddit for creepy PMs. It is very disturbing.

 

[NickNaylor]

Thanks for bringing up some good counterpoints respectfully. I'll let Nina respond to your specific questions but just wanted to make a point. I think the should question is so much more important then the would question (what will happen/is happening right now) as it is the only thing that we really have that much control over. We do have an influence on how the world is, now and in the future. The discussion is important so that those who think things should be different will not be passive bystanders when they are presented with situations where they may be able to step in and make a difference. Some people (myself included) think that it is unacceptable for something like this to affect someone's career. So stand up for your classmate who is being ridiculed for something in her personal life. Speak out at the admissions committee when it comes up. As you move along in your career, and hold more positions of power, make sure that you set a clear example of treating both colleagues and patients respectfully, regardless of details of their personal life that you may find offensive. It is important to realize that we do not have to accept the status quo.

Acting strictly based on how things "should be" is only important for martyrs IMO. While your points are well-taken, they have absolutely no impact on what will actually happen to Nina or anyone else, nor will they make them feel better when they're dealing with the consequences of those actions. I think it's good to have these discussions so that we have something to aspire to and identify ways in which we can improve, but that does nothing for the people actually getting the short end of the stick in these situations.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[ebbandflow83]

Yo thanks for the life advice. Definitely one of the most important issues of our day.
brb wasting my time defending girls posting nudies online.

Issues rarely exist in a vacuum. This one is related to larger issues such as gender equality, prejudice, and what is or isn't professional conduct in medicine. Something hopefully many on this board are interested in (decent participation in this thread).

One of the most dangerous things is letting the "little" things slide. Probably the most insidious support of gender inequality in our society is when groups of guys tell sexist jokes amongst themselves. Or talk about women in demeaning ways when no women are around (or are around for that matter). Some of the guys in those groups know it's wrong, and feel uncomfortable.

It's time to start saying something. It's not ok to talk about women like that. It's not ok to continue to subject women to conflicting expectations and then penalize them when they aren't able to walk the line. It's not ok to passively (or actively) support a system that is not allowing us to take full advantage of the contributions that women have to offer. I agree with your sarcastic comment. It is one of the most important issues of our day. And the kicker is that men will do better when women are allowed to fully realize their potential. It's not a zero sum game.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Issues rarely exist in a vacuum. This one is related to larger issues such as gender equality, prejudice, and what is or isn't professional conduct in medicine. Something hopefully many on this board are interested in (decent participation in this thread).

One of the most dangerous things is letting the "little" things slide. Probably the most insidious support of gender inequality in our society is when groups of guys tell sexist jokes amongst themselves. Or talk about women in demeaning ways when no women are around (or are around for that matter). Some of the guys in those groups know it's wrong, and feel uncomfortable.

It's time to start saying something. It's not ok to talk about women like that. It's not ok to continue to subject women to conflicting expectations and then penalize them when they aren't able to walk the line. It's not ok to passively (or actively) support a system that is not allowing us to take full advantage of the contributions that women have to offer. I agree with your sarcastic comment. It is one of the most important issues of our day. And the kicker is that men will do better when women are allowed to fully realize their potential. It's not a zero sum game.

Wut? Bro I'd expect people to react the same way if I was posting a bunch of dick pics online and I'd expect the same possible consequences if I was posting nudes online. Now would I get the same kind of traffic and possible exposure? Probably not (mostly because the amount of gw viewers are like 100/1 M/F).

This isn't a "woman" thing it's a "not great choices" thing. It's not anyone else's fault way less guys feel the need to attention-***** themselves out online by posting naked pictures of themselves.

 

[ebbandflow83]

Wut? Bro I'd expect people to react the same way if I was posting a bunch of dick pics online and I'd expect the same possible consequences if I was posting nudes online. Now would I get the same kind of traffic and possible exposure? Probably not.

This isn't a "woman" thing it's a "not great choices" thing.

I think it is impossible to view this situation without taking sex into account. Just my opinion though. I expect the reaction would be completely different. But I guess we won't know until you do it.

Not to go over the entire thread again, but if we start chastising people for making "not great choices" that have no effect on patient care, we won't have many doctors left. Especially depending on who is making those moral decisions. And if you did post pics of that nature, I would defend your right to do so if you were facing repercussions or moral outrage for it.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think it is impossible to view this situation without taking sex into account. Just my opinion though. I expect the reaction would be completely different. But I guess we won't know until you do it.

Not to go over the entire thread again, but if we start chastising people for making "not great choices" that have no effect on patient care, we won't have many doctors left. Especially depending on who is making those moral decisions. And if you did post pics of that nature, I would defend your right to do so if you were facing repercussions or moral outrage for it.

That point is debatable. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that many patients would be off-put by seeing their doctor naked - especially in a sexually provocative way - or knowing that they do that. Now you might disagree, but you are not everyone. tantacles brushed this point off, but I don't know how you could possibly believe that this has no impact on professionalism or the doctor-patient relationship. As I mentioned previously, no, something like this doesn't affect your knowledge base or your ability to diagnose disease, but it is a very real possibility that it will affect how your patient feels around you. That DOES affect your patient care, albeit in a very indirect way.

No one is saying that this is morally wrong. What some people are arguing is that this is an immature, unwise decision that - whether you want to acknowledge it or not - has a high chance of affecting her professional life in the future.

 

[ebbandflow83]

Acting strictly based on how things "should be" is only important for martyrs IMO. While your points are well-taken, they have absolutely no impact on what will actually happen to Nina or anyone else, nor will they make them feel better when they're dealing with the consequences of those actions. I think it's good to have these discussions so that we have something to aspire to and identify ways in which we can improve, but that does nothing for the people actually getting the short end of the stick in these situations.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

If any of Nina's classmates stand up for her, it could make a difference. If any faculty or admins stand up for her, it could make a difference. I think assuming that we can have no impact on the state of our current affairs is overly cynical. I agree that it is very difficult to see any merit in putting your neck out for someone else, especially with unclear returns (what I'm assuming you mean when you say martyr). It's of course much easier to do anonymously on an internet forum, so I claim no heroism here. And I agree that acting strictly on the way things should be would be foolish. I think we are agreeing in saying that you should be aware of how things are, think about how things should be, and then act on a case-by-case basis.

That point is debatable. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that many patients would be off-put by seeing their doctor naked - especially in a sexually provocative way - or knowing that they do that. Now you might disagree, but you are not everyone. tantacles brushed this point off, but I don't know how you could possibly believe that this has no impact on professionalism or the doctor-patient relationship. As I mentioned previously, no, something like this doesn't affect your knowledge base or your ability to diagnose disease, but it is a very real possibility that it will affect how your patient feels around you. That DOES affect your patient care, albeit in a very indirect way.

No one is saying that this is morally wrong. What some people are arguing is that this is an immature, unwise decision that - whether you want to acknowledge it or not - has a high chance of affecting her professional life in the future.

Well I think that many people are arguing many different things. A few people have explicitly argued it is morally wrong, and I believe that most others who are saying it will affect patient care through the docpat relationship are implicitly arguing that it is morally wrong. Side note, I agree that it will probably have ramifications in her professional life. Tantacles used the gay example (it didn't feel to me like he brushed it off) but let's try it with race. If a patient or community of patients feels uncomfortable around black people (say in some racist area of the US), should it be the responsibility of a hospital, residency director or med school to protect those prejudices and not hire black doctors/admit black students? If so, then I think your argument is logically consistent. But at some point if you support that judgment by patients under the auspices of the doctor-patient relationship, you are at the very least tacitly supporting the moral judgment that is being made. We decide to honor some patient hang ups, and not others. What we choose is not without meaning.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Well I think that many people are arguing many different things. A few people have explicitly argued it is morally wrong, and I believe that most others who are saying it will affect patient care through the docpat relationship are implicitly arguing that it is morally wrong. Side note, I agree that it will probably have ramifications in her professional life. Tantacles used the gay example (it didn't feel to me like he brushed it off) but let's try it with race. If a patient or community of patients feels uncomfortable around black people (say in some racist area of the US), should it be the responsibility of a hospital, residency director or med school to protect those prejudices and not hire black doctors/admit black students? If so, then I think your argument is logically consistent. But at some point if you support that judgment by patients under the auspices of the doctor-patient relationship, you are at the very least tacitly supporting the moral judgment that is being made. We decide to honor some patient hang ups, and not others. What we choose is not without meaning.

Yes because choosing to put naked pictures of yourself online is the same thing as being black. Try again.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

A lot of decent points made by both sides, however it seems as though Nina is well aware of the gravity of her decision. She seems to be ready and mature enough to deal with the consequences whether they are disciplinary or come in the form of mistrust from patients. However a VAST majority of patients don't go to their Dr. Or ER to judge people or be judged. Since I started med school (fall 09) every single professor and physician I have worked with have had one thing in common, which is an open mind. Anything can show up in your examination room and you could end up working along side anybody. We have to adjust to the times because people will always need us and vice-versa.

 

[NickNaylor]

Well I think that many people are arguing many different things. A few people have explicitly argued it is morally wrong, and I believe that most others who are saying it will affect patient care through the docpat relationship are implicitly arguing that it is morally wrong. Side note, I agree that it will probably have ramifications in her professional life. Tantacles used the gay example (it didn't feel to me like he brushed it off) but let's try it with race. If a patient or community of patients feels uncomfortable around black people (say in some racist area of the US), should it be the responsibility of a hospital, residency director or med school to protect those prejudices and not hire black doctors/admit black students? If so, then I think your argument is logically consistent. But at some point if you support that judgment by patients under the auspices of the doctor-patient relationship, you are at the very least tacitly supporting the moral judgment that is being made. We decide to honor some patient hang ups, and not others. What we choose is not without meaning.

Weak argument - they aren't even the same thing. You have no ability to change your race. You absolutely have an ability to not post nude pictures of yourself, including your likeness, on the web for everyone to see.

 

[ebbandflow83]

Yes because choosing to put naked pictures of yourself online is the same thing as being black. Try again.

Weak argument - they aren't even the same thing. You have no ability to change your race. You absolutely have an ability to not post nude pictures of yourself, including your likeness, on the web for everyone to see.

Could you elaborate? What is the reason they are not the same thing? If it is the choice aspect, then you are making a moral judgment that choosing to post nudes on the internet is wrong. I feel by admitting they are different things, you are proving my point. Am I missing something? My viewpoint would be that being black is (obviously) ok and also posting nude photos of yourself on the internet is also ok. Neither should be used as an excuse, via the doctor-patient relationship, to deny someone's worth in the medical community.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

Could you elaborate? What is the reason they are not the same thing? If it is the choice aspect, then you are making a moral judgment that choosing to post nudes on the internet is wrong. I feel by admitting they are different things, you are proving my point. Am I missing something? My viewpoint would be that being black is (obviously) ok and also posting nude photos of yourself on the internet is also ok. Neither should be used as an excuse, via the doctor-patient relationship, to deny someone's worth in the medical community.

A sad truth in 2013

 

[NickNaylor]

Could you elaborate? What is the reason they are not the same thing? If it is the choice aspect, then you are making a moral judgment that choosing to post nudes on the internet is wrong. I feel by admitting they are different things, you are proving my point. Am I missing something? My viewpoint would be that being black is (obviously) ok and also posting nude photos of yourself on the internet is also ok. Neither should be used as an excuse, via the doctor-patient relationship, to deny someone's worth in the medical community.

I am not making a moral judgment. What I am saying is that you made a voluntary choice and now you must suffer any and all consequences of that choice, both good and bad. It's unreasonable for someone to suffer consequences for something they have no way to change and which is intrinsic to their being.

This really isn't thay hard. If this is a difficult concept, pre-allo is a few links up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[spartanmd2015]

Well I think that many people are arguing many different things. A few people have explicitly argued it is morally wrong, and I believe that most others who are saying it will affect patient care through the docpat relationship are implicitly arguing that it is morally wrong. Side note, I agree that it will probably have ramifications in her professional life. Tantacles used the gay example (it didn't feel to me like he brushed it off) but let's try it with race. If a patient or community of patients feels uncomfortable around black people (say in some racist area of the US), should it be the responsibility of a hospital, residency director or med school to protect those prejudices and not hire black doctors/admit black students? If so, then I think your argument is logically consistent. But at some point if you support that judgment by patients under the auspices of the doctor-patient relationship, you are at the very least tacitly supporting the moral judgment that is being made. We decide to honor some patient hang ups, and not others. What we choose is not without meaning.

Couldn't you counter this with proposing that 'if a patient or community of patients feels uncomfortable around homicidal murderers (say in any murder-fearing region in the US), should it be the responsibility of a hospital, residency director or med school to protect those fears, and not hire a homicidal murderer?'

By no means am I trying to equate murder with posting nude selfies. This metaphor is meant to illustrate that one's past can/does affect one's future. Specifically, as NickNaylor pointed out earlier, how these actions may affect her future candidacy as a resident.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

Nothing that she didn't seem prepared for already. She seems mature enough to handle the consequences and hold herself accountable should this come back to haunt her. Which I believe it SHOULD NOT, however practice and theory can be polar opposites.

 

[ebbandflow83]

I am not making a moral judgment. What I am saying is that you made a voluntary choice and now you must suffer any and all consequences of that choice, both good and bad. It's unreasonable for someone to suffer consequences for something they have no way to change and which is intrinsic to their being.

This really isn't thay hard. If this is a difficult concept, pre-allo is a few links up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

Ouch. The amicable nature of our exchanges went sour. If it was easy I think this thread might be shorter, but I digress.

All I was saying is don't hide behind the doctor-patient relationship to mask your own disapproval. And bringing the discussion back to consequences is circular, in that we have settled and passed that point.

I think I can let our arguments stand next to each other without further elaboration. It seems to me like you are side stepping the issue that I brought up, but it's equally probable that I am missing something.

All in all, good job team. Ebbout!

 

[NickNaylor]

Nothing that she didn't seem prepared for already. She seems mature enough to handle the consequences and hold herself accountable should this come back to haunt her. Which I believe it SHOULD NOT, however practice and theory can be polar opposites.

She admitted herself on reddit that she didn't expect this to be such a story, nor did she think that other news outlets would pick up the story. It seems like she misjudged what exactly would happen here, though maybe she'll come back and clear it up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[scarshapedstar]

The "medicine is a conservative profession" canard was started by a bunch of stuffy old squares in the hopes of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by scaring away all the free spirits. I say we let our freak flags fly and Nina can be our queen.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

She admitted herself on reddit that she didn't expect this to be such a story, nor did she think that other news outlets would pick up the story. It seems like she misjudged what exactly would happen here, though maybe she'll come back and clear it up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

If something bad does come of the situation, I would hope that she holds herself accountable. We have no reason to believe that she is going to blame others for an oversight on her part. But as people that don't matter (or SDN at large), we should not pass judgement and let her school admins do what they feel is appropriate.

P.S. I see nothing wrong and don't feel that anything bad should come of this but I am just an avatar with an opinion.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

The "medicine is a conservative profession" canard was started by a bunch of stuffy old squares in the hopes of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by scaring away all the free spirits. I say we let our freak flags fly and Nina can be our queen.

I feel like THIS is what makes our profession so great. Our ability to keep our minds open and treat our patients without judging them. And to work with other intelligent colleagues from all walks of life for the betterment of others. Not some academic notion of elitism and "prestige"

My statement was mad corny but its true.

 

[throwaway2evry1]

Yeah, there's absolutely no connection between her history of childhood sexual abuse, episode of date rape, and subsequent aberrant sexual behavior.

She ain't right in the head.

The funniest part about the date rape is that it took place at Columbia Med School party. No one helped me or stuck their neck out for me. I still receive apologies from men who are currently residents who didn't have the courage to make a rape accusation for what was then a helpless girl who had no memory of the night. I love how a date-rapist is likely an Ivy league graduated physician today, someone who most of you would have the utmost respect for! And I suppose because he only rapes girls in private and doesn't post videos of his attacks on the internet that makes it okay? What a joke. Doctors aren't perfect people. The overwhelming majority of posters on SDN seem the think that the acceptability of "deviant" behavior is measured by whether or not one gets caught. This is absurd. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether displayed in public or performed in private. The debate here is whether being nude in a photograph on the internet is inherently wrong and deserving of punishment. Of course that is something for each person to decide on his own, but in the grand scheme things, is it really so bad? Really?

And while I shouldn't have to defend my sanity, I'll put it to you this way. I often fantasized about going insane so that I wouldn't have to deal with my day-to-day reality. Unfortunately, my sanity is steadfast. You don't have to worry about me. I make conscious decisions and understand the potential consequences of my actions regardless of whether I believe they're unjust.

 

[tco]

Wonder how many people would be defending her if she was an ugly, hairy dude?

 

[beBrave]

You know life is really difficult. Those of you bashing Nina are some miserable SOB's. I'm enjoying every bit of your frustration and your anger. Nina is happy, most of you aren't. With all the other issues we have to worry about in life, some naked girl on a subreddit shouldn't even be on the list. Some of you are so sexually frustrated that literally everything out of your mouth relates these pictures to sexual acts in some way or another. Even when attempting to divert to other subjects, you still resist and link these pics to promiscuity, masturbation or porn. I'm sorry you guys/girls can't have her. Work hard; clean yourselves up; stop projecting so much onto others and learn to act like decent human beings, put yourselves out there a bit and I'm sure you'll find someone. The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem and the next is know confronting it. Good luck haters.

 

[scarshapedstar]

The overwhelming majority of posters on SDN seem the think that the acceptability of "deviant" behavior is measured by whether or not one gets caught. This is absurd. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether displayed in public or performed in private. The debate here is whether being nude in a photograph on the internet is inherently wrong and deserving of punishment. Of course that is something for each person to decide on his own, but in the grand scheme things, is it really so bad? Really?

Moreover, I'm fairly sure that a French doctor could walk around topless on a beach and run into a patient and the patient wouldn't be all like OMG YOU HAVE TO QUIT YOUR JOB NOW AHHHHH

All this talk about "consequences" as if they're some law of the universe - they're just a childish American preoccupation, and if people didn't expect them, they wouldn't happen anymore, because they would be considered weird and unfair. If you're truly concerned that "other people" will do bad things to Nina's career, change your own mind for starters.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You know life is really difficult. Those of you bashing Nina are some miserable SOB's. I'm enjoying every bit of your frustration and your anger. Nina is happy, most of you aren't. With all the other issues we have to worry about in life, some naked girl on a subreddit shouldn't even be on the list. Some of you are so sexually frustrated that literally everything out of your mouth relates these pictures to sexual acts in some way or another. Even when attempting to divert to other subjects, you still resist and link these pics to promiscuity, masturbation or porn. I'm sorry you guys/girls can't have her. Work hard; clean yourselves up; stop projecting so much onto others and learn act like decent human beings, put yourselves out there a bit and I'm sure you'll find someone. The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem and the next is know confronting it. Good luck haters.

Man I'm sure glad I found this thread for all the life advice.

 

[olecranon4]

You know life is really difficult. Those of you bashing Nina are some miserable SOB's. I'm enjoying every bit of your frustration and your anger. Nina is happy, most of you aren't. With all the other issues we have to worry about in life, some naked girl on a subreddit shouldn't even be on the list. Some of you are so sexually frustrated that literally everything out of your mouth relates these pictures to sexual acts in some way or another. Even when attempting to divert to other subjects, you still resist and link these pics to promiscuity, masturbation or porn. I'm sorry you guys/girls can't have her. Work hard; clean yourselves up; stop projecting so much onto others and learn act like decent human beings, put yourselves out there a bit and I'm sure you'll find someone. The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem and the next is know confronting it. Good luck haters.

You sound frustrated.

 

[JP2740]

You know life is really difficult. Those of you bashing Nina are some miserable SOB's. I'm enjoying every bit of your frustration and your anger. Nina is happy, most of you aren't. With all the other issues we have to worry about in life, some naked girl on a subreddit shouldn't even be on the list. Some of you are so sexually frustrated that literally everything out of your mouth relates these pictures to sexual acts in some way or another. Even when attempting to divert to other subjects, you still resist and link these pics to promiscuity, masturbation or porn. I'm sorry you guys/girls can't have her. Work hard; clean yourselves up; stop projecting so much onto others and learn to act like decent human beings, put yourselves out there a bit and I'm sure you'll find someone. The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem and the next is know confronting it. Good luck haters.

Lol what? The only source of unhappiness/miserable in my life is Step 1. I don't think any of us are sexually frustrated. I doubt either of us even want her considering she's not that good looking and you can pick up any bait at the bar that looks like her on any given night. What is this "you can't have her"? Why are you so interested in defending her lol, you sound sexually frustrated to be talking like that how much ass do you get dude?

 

[throwaway2evry1]

Lol what? The only source of unhappiness/miserable in my life is Step 1. I don't think any of us are sexually frustrated. I doubt either of us even want her considering she's not that good looking and you can pick up any bait at the bar that looks like her on any given night. What is this "you can't have her"? Why are you so interested in defending her lol, you sound sexually frustrated to be talking like that how much ass do you get dude?

From my life experience the men who get the most women tend to be the least judgmental because they've seen it all, whereas men who get very few women tend to create sexual fantasies in their minds and have absurdly high standards. Just sayin'.

 

[tantacles]

The funniest part about the date rape is that it took place at Columbia Med School party. No one helped me or stuck their neck out for me. I still receive apologies from men who are currently residents who didn't have the courage to make a rape accusation for what was then a helpless girl who had no memory of the night. I love how a date-rapist is likely an Ivy league graduated physician today, someone who most of you would have the utmost respect for! And I suppose because he only rapes girls in private and doesn't post videos of his attacks on the internet that makes it okay? What a joke. Doctors aren't perfect people. The overwhelming majority of posters on SDN seem the think that the acceptability of "deviant" behavior is measured by whether or not one gets caught. This is absurd. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether displayed in public or performed in private. The debate here is whether being nude in a photograph on the internet is inherently wrong and deserving of punishment. Of course that is something for each person to decide on his own, but in the grand scheme things, is it really so bad? Really?

And while I shouldn't have to defend my sanity, I'll put it to you this way. I often fantasized about going insane so that I wouldn't have to deal with my day-to-day reality. Unfortunately, my sanity is steadfast. You don't have to worry about me. I make conscious decisions and understand the potential consequences of my actions regardless of whether I believe they're unjust.

This is what people aren't seeing. The murderer at BU was a murderer before he was caught, and he was punished because he was caught doing something bad, not only because he did something bad.

I've yet to see a compelling argument that posting nude pictures online is deserving of punishment, mainly because the only potentially compelling argument that's been brought up is that it might affect the doctor-patient relationship, a relationship that can be affected by myriad factors: Sexual orientation, race, political views, business affiliations, sexual attraction (patient to doctor or doctor to patient), and others. Some of these factors can be changed, but some can not, but I don't think anyone's objecting to any of these points. Potential damage to the doctor-patient relationship is not enough of a compelling reason.

So what compelling reason is there?

 

[JP2740]

From my life experience the men who get the most women tend to be the least judgmental because they've seen it all, whereas men who get very few women tend to create sexual fantasies in their minds and have absurdly high standards. Just sayin'.

lol no.

 

[NickNaylor]

Moreover, I'm fairly sure that a French doctor could walk around topless on a beach and run into a patient and the patient wouldn't be all like OMG YOU HAVE TO QUIT YOUR JOB NOW AHHHHH

All this talk about "consequences" as if they're some law of the universe - they're just a childish American preoccupation, and if people didn't expect them, they wouldn't happen anymore, because they would be considered weird and unfair. If you're truly concerned that "other people" will do bad things to Nina's career, change your own mind for starters.

You do understand that different cultures have different sensibilities, right? A hypothetical French doctor has nothing to do with American cultural preferences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[John Lannister]

 

[NickNaylor]

This is what people aren't seeing. The murderer at BU was a murderer before he was caught, and he was punished because he was caught doing something bad, not only because he did something bad.

I've yet to see a compelling argument that posting nude pictures online is deserving of punishment, mainly because the only potentially compelling argument that's been brought up is that it might affect the doctor-patient relationship, a relationship that can be affected by myriad factors: Sexual orientation, race, political views, business affiliations, sexual attraction (patient to doctor or doctor to patient), and others. Some of these factors can be changed, but some can not, but I don't think anyone's objecting to any of these points. Potential damage to the doctor-patient relationship is not enough of a compelling reason.

So what compelling reason is there?

The last sentence of your second paragraph is 100% opinion. You think it isn't, I think it might worthy of consideration. What I don't think is acceptable is plugging one's ears, screaming "LA LA LA," and pretending that public behavior which she herself made public is entirely divorced from her (future) public work as a physician. It's not as if she's being persecuted for being LGBT or something. The fact that someone would post nude pictures of themselves that includes their face says many things about them. That's what she is being judged on. I think it's important to remember that these are all actions she performed VOLUNTARILY.

Again, I want to reiterate that I really dont care and don't think this is some kind of moral outrage. I do think it exhibits questionable judgment given that she's going into a profession in which others' perception of and comfort around you is critical. Not everyone is going to be bothered by this. My guess is that most people won't care. That said, if it just so happens that residency directors, patients, colleagues, etc. see these pictures and are less than impressed, well... bummer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

 

[oncall78]

Hello everyone. This is the OP, oncall77. I had to make a new account. I am willing to accept it if you don’t believe me. Yes, the post is long… but I do make a point if you actually take the time to read it.

Anyway I said I was disengaging from this thread but then I saw the student in question, supposedly (I didn't actually bother to read all the posts I missed so I'm unsure if you guys verified her or whatever), posted. I also saw that this thread was still going so I figured I should comment one last time...

To Nina1987:

I do not know you. I do not go to your school and have already graduated from my own school. And even if I did personally know you, I would not report you. Why? Well most likely because I'd find it to be too much of a hassle to be quite honest.

However I do have a word of advice that sort of combines what others have said on this very thread. What you do in your private life is private and what you do in your public life is public. Posting nude pics on the internet is public.

I think that your actions are not wise to take and would suggest you remove the pics and stop with the interviews and whatnot asap. I say this because often times when these types of things are found out the female in question is chastised. Look at all the teachers who do similar things and are subsequently fired. A simple google search will reveal this. Another example is beauty pageant winners. As soon as nude photos or videos of them are found their careers are essentially ruined (examples include Melissa King, Miss Teen Delaware, and Carrie Prejean, Miss USA 2009). Politicians run into the same problems (Anthony Weiner, former U.S. rep forced to resign).

Now as a physician you are held to a higher moral standard whether you like it or not. Why you may ask? Well you are treating patients and people's family members. Patients open up their secrets and bodies to you. They look to you for advice and comfort in good and bad times. Being a physician is not "just a job" but is essentially a profession that becomes part of your life. I think people should look at the profession as a religious leader looks at his/hers because lots of people view them in analogous ways. As such professionalism in all aspects of life is extremely important. People are generally very very judgmental of what would generally be considered amoral. These people generally don't post on internet forums which is usually dominated by young liberal atheists. If patients and/or their family members were ever to see these pictures it would change your relationship with them.

And because of this high moral standard physicians are held to, these pictures you have chosen to post may harm your career. I am relatively certain just based on listening to my deans and professors talk about professionalism ad nausem that this would not be acceptable at my school. However, that being said it probably wouldn't be grounds for expulsion, at my school anyway, unless the student refused to take down the photos. Why would the school care? Because the attitude that you seem to express (or at least how I read it) is one of nonchalance toward the whole affair and how you can't seem to see how other people would view these actions or how patients may react to them. It is a sign of immaturity and may in the future be associated with other actions that would be equally unprofessional. An example of how seemingly unrelated actions are related: teens who text and drive are more likely to try recreational drugs as the personality trait of "risk-taking" is associated with multiple different actions (http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/na...likely-to-develop-other-bad-habits-in-the-car).

And I honestly would not expect anything long lastingly bad to come from your actions. At worse your school may ask to speak with you and strong arm you to get you to remove the pictures. I know from hearing from an assistant program director of a well known program of some weird and worse things residents have done that have not resulted in any drastically bad actions when I thought it would have.

Finally I understand physicians are people and need to have a life outside of work as well. And we all should. Unfortunately the job follows us everywhere and it is generally a good attitude to be careful and conservative about what is said/done in public. I would actually have the same exact advice for any person who does any job outside of being a porn actor/actress or celebrity. It’s just the way society and people are.

Anyway I hope for the best in your future endeavors and wish you no ill. I am sincerely sorry if anything negative comes of this and will pray everything turns out for the best. My intention was not to discuss you personally but more the fact of a "medical student" posting nude pics. I did not actually know you were a medical student nor that this thread would be this long.

 

[oncall78]

Now…

To all the other posters and especially the ones who hated on me after I departed from the thread:

I am not judging Nina1987 as a person/human being. I do not know her. I do not know if she is a good or bad person. I was placing judgment on the actions alone. Yes, it is possible to separate the two. Good people can do bad things.

The rest of this is partly influenced by my religious views. We are all sinners and no one is perfect. Because I do not know her and I am not God, I do not judge her. I do think the actions she took were not wise. I know this may anger some atheists out there… but I do not think God created humans to flagrantly show off their bodies for the world to see. God created humans in His image and wanted humans to treat their body as a temple of His spirit. Those are my fundamental beliefs and I see actions that are not in line with that as sinful. However as I said we are all sinners and you don’t necessarily judge a person by his/her sins alone. We all make mistakes. We all have not times not treated our bodies as God would have wanted. But a sin does not make a person and person cannot judge another person since we are all sinners. Only God can judge people ultimately.

I’m sure even the angry atheists know the story of the adulteress brought before Jesus by a crowd seeking to test him (John 8:1-11):

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, [a]Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

So as I said I am not judging her as a person. It is very frustrating how for some reason all of you people accusing me of judging her, calling me all sorts of things (thus hypocritically judging me… note that I am not in fact a being a hypocrite in this case), questioning my character and commitment, etc could not see that you can separate the action from the person and judge each separately as I was trying to do. Was I as eloquent as maybe another could be? Probably not. But I was taken aback by the vitriol spewed forth at me for my views (which are really not controversial… yeah, maybe conservative but hateful like the responses of those who “disagree” with me?) from people who say they accept all…


Finally, I will restate the overall point of the whole entire reason as to why I wanted to discuss this topic…

It is important for a society to have definitions of what is right and what is wrong. There are many many many people advocating for societal relativism where what is right and wrong is determined by society and not by God. This is in fact dangerous for everyone. Society in the past has deemed child molestation to be acceptable (ancient Rome). Society in the past has chosen that not believing in God to be an offense that could be condemned by death (medieval times). Some societies in today’s world deem in ok for maltreatment of women and children. Some societies deem it ok to treat social classes as different types of people. There are many more examples as I am sure you all know. As such what is right and what is wrong should not be determined by society but by a higher power as is essentially already defined by many religions which are, in fact, in general agreement.

Now, look at the example of this upstanding obgyn, Kermit Gosnell: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nvicted-of-first-degree-murder?lite&GT1=43001
The story is beyond horridly shocking. But the doctor likely thought what he was doing was right… now is that a society you want to live in? Is that a physician you want treating your loved ones? Don’t sit back and think this stuff can’t happen because it has in the past.

 

[oncall78]

Finally, I’ve actually been a member of previous profiles since before my med school days but have come to the point where it is actually just annoying to discuss things with medical students on here and in person. As I said in another thread, medical students are very whiney, decadent, self-righteous, spoiled, snobby, selfish, and arrogant. I know this because I have whined a lot during my medical school days and probably will into my residency days hahaha. But I have also heard so many spoiled med students who expect all honors, AOA, and great evals and all the while doing as little as possible. I’ve seen your typical self-righteous student (as I am sure many of you think I am hahaha, and I am a little…) who preaches about how we all must live for helping the poor in the world… yet this student then lives a very decadent lifestyle going out to all the exclusive clubs at night partying it up with classy alcohol after shopping in a swanky area and getting some food at their local small posh grocery store (because God forbid they go to Walmart!!!) and then eating an expensive dinner with their equally decadent and self-righteous friends at their little snobby independent burger joint and bar only rich white people can afford… Yeah yeah not all med students are like this. But the vast majority of the ones I met were. And you know, I think I’m beginning to understand why some residents and attendings start to check out a little with med students, because I bet over the years of dealing with hundreds of them there are just so many that become annoying it’s easier to just let them all do whatever unless you get the ones who are genuinely interested and want to learn.

And with that I will again disengage from the whole of SDN. I will not reply to any further posts so have fun. I do actually wish you all good luck though.

 

[tantacles]

The last sentence of your second paragraph is 100% opinion. You think it isn't, I think it might worthy of consideration. What I don't think is acceptable is plugging one's ears, screaming "LA LA LA," and pretending that public behavior which she herself made public is entirely divorced from her (future) public work as a physician. It's not as if she's being persecuted for being LGBT or something. The fact that someone would post nude pictures of themselves that includes their face says many things about them. That's what she is being judged on. I think it's important to remember that these are all actions she performed VOLUNTARILY.

Again, I want to reiterate that I really dont care and don't think this is some kind of moral outrage. I do think it exhibits questionable judgment given that she's going into a profession in which others' perception of and comfort around you is critical. Not everyone is going to be bothered by this. My guess is that most people won't care. That said, if it just so happens that residency directors, patients, colleagues, etc. see these pictures and are less than impressed, well... bummer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

Right, but I can choose to be affiliated with a business or not, and a patient can hate me for it.

 

[tco]

From my life experience the men who get the most women tend to be the least judgmental because they've seen it all, whereas men who get very few women tend to create sexual fantasies in their minds and have absurdly high standards. Just sayin'.

Must be true.

 

[ijn]

The funniest part about the date rape is that it took place at Columbia Med School party. No one helped me or stuck their neck out for me. I still receive apologies from men who are currently residents who didn't have the courage to make a rape accusation for what was then a helpless girl who had no memory of the night. I love how a date-rapist is likely an Ivy league graduated physician today, someone who most of you would have the utmost respect for! And I suppose because he only rapes girls in private and doesn't post videos of his attacks on the internet that makes it okay? What a joke. Doctors aren't perfect people. The overwhelming majority of posters on SDN seem the think that the acceptability of "deviant" behavior is measured by whether or not one gets caught. This is absurd. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether displayed in public or performed in private. The debate here is whether being nude in a photograph on the internet is inherently wrong and deserving of punishment. Of course that is something for each person to decide on his own, but in the grand scheme things, is it really so bad? Really?

And while I shouldn't have to defend my sanity, I'll put it to you this way. I often fantasized about going insane so that I wouldn't have to deal with my day-to-day reality. Unfortunately, my sanity is steadfast. You don't have to worry about me. I make conscious decisions and understand the potential consequences of my actions regardless of whether I believe they're unjust.

Yeah, frankly a lot of deviant **** is okay so as long as it is kept private. This is how society has worked since the dawn of the public square. You can be the little freak you are so as long as you don't attach your public identity. Or just keep yo junk off the internets. You're going to be a doctor for Christ's sake. What do you think a residency program director is going to do when he types your name into Google and finds sexually explicit videos and pictures? Vibrator fellatio, really hun...? You're putting your career at risk.

 

[tantacles]

Yeah, frankly a lot of deviant **** is okay so as long as it is kept private. You can be the little freak you are without attaching your public identity. Or just keep yo junk off the internets. You're going to be a doctor for Christ's sake. What do you think a residency program director is going to do when he types your name into Google and finds sexually explicit videos and pictures? Vibrator fellatio, really hun...? You're putting your career at risk.

Dude, what is your problem? Why are you so mean? Can't you just have a discussion where you don't call names?

And how is rape ok? Rape isn't ok just because it's kept private. Don't you see that?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Now, look at the example of this upstanding obgyn, Kermit Gosnell: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nvicted-of-first-degree-murder?lite&GT1=43001
The story is beyond horridly shocking. But the doctor likely thought what he was doing was right… now is that a society you want to live in? Is that a physician you want treating your loved ones? Don't sit back and think this stuff can't happen because it has in the past.

lol wut...I'm not sure what part of that trial led you to the conclusion that "the doctor likely thought what he was doing was right".

This dude is off in a whole different world than the rest of us on here. Try not to lump him in with our responses.