Midwestern University - leader in predatory education

[allantois]

While there is much debate about student loans and the responsibility that colleges themselves bear on the cost of education, I thought it would be interesting to look at which DO school in the nation is the most expensive.

And the most expensive DO school in the nation award goes to Midwestern University: CCOM campus $71,376 (1st year tuition and fees) and AZCOM $69,253. With the way it is going, the tuition is very well on track to reach $100,000 within the next 10 years (Of course, their dental school is already pushing that number).

Whereas, many schools have not increased their tuition from previous years, Midwestern increased their tuition by over 4% every year for the past 10 years (as far back as the data goes). No only is their medical school the most expensive in the nation, but their other programs are some of the most expensive as well.

One must wonder what is fueling the explosion of educational costs. Is it the quality of education the school is investing in? Well, according to public tax disclosures, the president of MWU made close to $2.3 million! (among a number of other highly-paid administrators) in the year 2018.

One day, we will look back at these leaders in education and recognize them for what they are - leaders in predatory education.

Tuition- Fees- and Financial Aid

Tuition, Fees, and Financial Aid

www.aacom.org

Midwestern University Properties Corp, Form 990 - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

projects.propublica.org

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[Splenda88]

Is Midwestern more expensive than Tuffs, USC?

 

[Mimosas]

Is MSUCOM not the most expensive osteopathic medical school?

 

[allantois]

Tufts seems to be $63k and USC is $64k. As they are MD schools, I suspect they give out a fair amount of scholarships.
MSUCOM is more expensive for OOS students

 

[Rapsidy]

You have to keep in mind at least for CCOM, the state that it’s placed in. Illinois in terms in fiscal responsibility is horrendous, one of the worst in the country pretty much only behind California. We literally were only one step above junk bond status in terms of credit rating until 2 days ago.

The state is 215 billion dollars in debt to unfunded pensions and our politicians from Crook County only ever raise taxes. So the cost of going to school here will be higher because the cost of everything in Illinois is higher.

Then put that together with the fact that we have Chicago nearby with about 6 different MD schools, and CCOM is the only DO school in the state. If you aren’t competitive enough for MD, CCOM is your only option for DO in Illinois, so it’s not really surprising that they price at what they want. People will pay it if they have family ties or want to be near a big city without being in the city. I’m not saying it’s right, but I absolutely don’t blame them either. They know their worth and they know what people will pay, and they still get over 7000 applicants a year regardless of cost.

TLDR: you don’t like it don’t apply, but we’re all big boys and girls here and if people don’t look up tuition before they apply when the information is right there, that’s on them.

 

[Osminog]

CCOM certainly isn't a pioneer in the realm of health graduate program price gouging. USC's dental school has $94K/year tuition. You read that right. $94K/year in only tuition.

Anyway, I guess some people are willing to become perpetual debt slaves for a chance to live on the outskirts of Chicago for a few years while in medical school. It sure must suck to enter a primary care specialty while carrying almost half a million dollars in debt.

 

[Lardy Boy]

RIP me. After 2 years of unsuccessful MD cycles, I’ll take what I can get. :/ will be interviewing at both campuses soon so I’ll pretend I don’t know about the tuition ^.^

 

[Goro]

While there is much debate about student loans and the responsibility that colleges themselves bear on the cost of education, I thought it would be interesting to look at which DO school in the nation is the most expensive.

And the most expensive DO school in the nation award goes to Midwestern University: CCOM campus $71,376 (1st year tuition and fees) and AZCOM $69,253. With the way it is going, the tuition is very well on track to reach $100,000 within the next 10 years (Of course, their dental school is already pushing that number).

Whereas, many schools have not increased their tuition from previous years, Midwestern increased their tuition by over 4% every year for the past 10 years (as far back as the data goes). No only is their medical school the most expensive in the nation, but their other programs are some of the most expensive as well.

One must wonder what is fueling the explosion of educational costs. Is it the quality of education the school is investing in? Well, according to public tax disclosures, the president of MWU made close to $2.3 million! (among a number of other highly-paid administrators) in the year 2018.

One day, we will look back at these leaders in education and recognize them for what they are - leaders in predatory education.

Tuition- Fees- and Financial Aid

Tuition, Fees, and Financial Aid

www.aacom.org

Midwestern University Properties Corp, Form 990 - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

projects.propublica.org

Can you show me the gun that was placed to the heads of CCOM students that forced them to attend there?

Look at what U ILL charges OOS students.

 

[allantois]

Can you show me the gun that was placed to the heads of CCOM students that forced them to attend there?

Look at what U ILL charges OOS students.

Certainly people are free to attend whatever the school they get into. I just think there is a lot of attention here on SDN to for-profit schools which in-fact charge less than some of these "non-profits" as well as to LECOM, which is in fact the most fiscally responsible school out there.

It is this sort of logic that has gotten us into the 1.6 trillion dollar in student loans mess and growing by 100 billion every year. These figures will impact everyone even if they didn't go to college if the government in fact tries to bail out those students. In my opinion there is not enough discussion about the role that colleges themselves play on preying on desperate students.

 

[Rapsidy]

It is this sort of logic that has gotten us into the 1.6 trillion dollar in student loans mess and growing by 100 billion every year. These figures will impact everyone even if they didn't go to college if the government in fact tries to bail out those students. In my opinion there is not enough discussion about the role that colleges themselves play on preying on desperate students.

I beg to differ. What got us into 1.6 trillion dollars in student loan debt is government taking over student loan and guaranteeing 100% safe loans to colleges no matter what they charged. And then 18 year olds being told that if they follow their dreams and got PhD’s in gender studies they would have jobs waiting for them that justified the 100k in debt they put off for later. The bailout has already happened.

I sir will link a video and encourage everyone to immerse themselves that is the wisdom of Dave Ramsey.



Capitalism is the worst system ever made....except for every other system on the planet. Midwestern doesn’t charge a penny more or a penny less than what people are willing to pay. As soon as it gets to high and people aren’t willing to pay, then they go down but until then, we have free choice and many schools to apply to.

 

[allantois]

The crooks will charge as much as they can get away with. For MWU this means 4% yearly increases. It is nice to blame such an abstract entity as the government. If the government were to completely pull out of students loans, these schools would all collapse under their own weight pretty fast.

 

[Cornfed101]

CCOM certainly isn't a pioneer in the realm of health graduate program price gouging. USC's dental school has $94K/year tuition. You read that right. $94K/year in only tuition.

Anyway, I guess some people are willing to become perpetual debt slaves for a chance to live on the outskirts of Chicago for a few years while in medical school. It sure must suck to enter a primary care specialty while carrying almost half a million dollars in debt.

And living in California... Man, that is a hefty amount of debt on a dentist's salary. My brother in law just graduated from dental school a few years ago with about $500k in debt and he is barely making 6 figures. I feel bad for them.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Here is a link to all osteopathic medical schools revenue and expenses for 2016:

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/fy2016-revenues-and-expenditures-by-osteopathic-medical-college.pdf?sfvrsn=fa392597_10

You will note that CCOM's tuition revenues are four times as great as its cost of instruction. These students are getting taken.

 

[Wjldenver]

Anyone who chooses to attend either one of the Midwestern campuses should learn how to do a return on investment calculation. The tuition at both the Chicago and Arizona campuses is simply outrageous and the career outcomes are average at best. Note that the majority of their graduating class goes into FM/IM/Peds. Yawn, ANY DO school will give you a comparable outcome for much less tuition $'s.

Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine

Steeped in the osteopathic tradition and based on the most current scientific research, your education at CCOM provides the skills you need for success.

www.midwestern.edu

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Anyone who chooses to attend either one of the Midwestern campuses should learn how to do a return on investment calculation. The tuition at both the Chicago and Arizona campuses is simply outrageous and the career outcomes are average at best. Note that the majority of their graduating class goes into FM/IM/Peds. Yawn, ANY DO school will give you a comparable outcome for much less tuition $'s.

Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine

Steeped in the osteopathic tradition and based on the most current scientific research, your education at CCOM provides the skills you need for success.

www.midwestern.edu

This!!

I can't believe that anybody would choose CCOM or AZCOM over LECOM. The professional outcomes are equivalent but the debt at CCOM, after a four year residency, is about twice as great as the debt from a LECOM education. It's crazy.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

This business of charging medical students vastly more than the actual cost of their education is symptomatic of a wider problem in American health care. In a reasonably rational market, the price of a good or service should approximate the provider's total cost including the provider's cost of capital. However, in American health care and medical education prices are predicated on whatever the traffic will bear in a highly irrational market. The health care establishment is able to get away with this because of entry barriers (e.g. the LCME putting Baylor medical school on probation) and the utter lack of cost transparency.

 

[Nugester]

Thanks, I am applying to these schools and this is good information.

 

[Lardy Boy]

Tuition 71k. Predicted COA is 104k for first year. Yikes.

 

[Nugester]

Tuition 71k. Predicted COA is 104k for first year. Yikes.

Ridiculous!

 

[deleted480308]

This business of charging medical students vastly more than the actual cost of their education is symptomatic of a wider problem in American health care. In a reasonably rational market, the price of a good or service should approximate the provider's total cost including the provider's cost of capital. However, in American health care and medical education prices are predicated on whatever the traffic will bear in a highly irrational market. The health care establishment is able to get away with this because of entry barriers (e.g. the LCME putting Baylor medical school on probation) and the utter lack of cost transparency.

Please, elaborate on how you refuse to charge more than actual cost in your medical practice

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Please, elaborate on how you refuse to charge more than actual cost in your medical practice

I'm not a physician. I'm a CPA. I work in a competitive market place with few entry barriers. In my state with 150 semester hours, a passing grade on the CPA exam and 1 year of professional experience you can hang out a CPA shingle. In the case of CCOM, the institution and the fat cats who run it benefit from a market that has extreme entry barriers and little competition.

On average we cover our costs including market based salaries. There is no monopoly or even oligopoly. Clients can come and go. I had a guy drop me because I raised his fee by $50. I was glad to see him go. His stuff was always a mess.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm not a physician. I'm a CPA. I work in a competitive market place with few entry barriers. In my state with 150 semester hours, a passing grade on the CPA exam and 1 year of professional experience you can hang out a CPA shingle. In the case of CCOM, the institution and the fat cats who run it benefit from a market that has extreme entry barriers and little competition.

On average we cover our costs including market based salaries. There is no monopoly or even oligopoly. Clients can come and go. I had a guy drop me because I raised his fee by $50. I was glad to see him go. His stuff was always a mess.

I’m with you on barriers to entry but you still charge more than “things cost” because you as a person want to profit from your skills. I’m not saying that’s bad at all. Go make your profit. I just find it silly to pretend health care shouldn’t

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I’m with you on barriers to entry but you still charge more than “things cost” because you as a person want to profit from your skills. I’m not saying that’s bad at all. Go make your profit. I just find it silly to pretend health care shouldn’t

Charging people profit maximizing prices in a competitive market is one thing. Charging people prices, that are 4 times as great as the underlying cost in an irrational market whose regulation is overseen by the people supposedly being regulated is something else. Face it. In every healthcare profession, from pharmacy to nursing to medicine, the people who run those professions have done their best to stifle competition to drive up wages and ultimately prices. See Milton Friedman

Milton Friedman Told Us The Answer Decades Ago - Now It'll Probably Be IBM's Watson

The US system is expensive because of a monopoly exerting market power. All monopolies come to an end as a result of changes in technology. We're on the cusp of exactly such a change in medical technology. Health care is going to become cheaper a a result of breaking the monopoly.

www.forbes.com

See the demise of hospital based diploma nursing programs:

My Diploma of Nursing School Experience

I am a diploma-prepared Registered Nurse. People often ask what a diploma is and how does it differ from a Bachelor's or Associate Degree. I'll explain the pros and cons and include a few stories.

owlcation.com

This article on pharmacy education really says it all. Back in the early 1990s to become a licensed pharmacist you needed to get a bachelor's degree. It took five years. Now to be a licensed pharmacist you need a Pharm D which usually takes eight years. This guy is warning that reducing the training time to seven years will be devastating to the profession:
"What colleges of pharmacy should think about if they make this shift en masse is the economic impact on the profession. The move to the all-PharmD led to an exponential increase in pharmacy salaries. Rapidly shifting a large number of schools to a 3-year program is good for schools individually, allowing them to gain a year’s worth of tuition a year earlier and 95 students get to enter the workforce a year earlier. But adding a large wave of pharmacists to a challenging job market could be catastrophic."

Is the 3-Year PharmD the Best Program for the Future?

Why did a top college of pharmacy switch to a 3-year program from a 4-year one?

www.pharmacytimes.com

 

[deleted480308]

Charging people profit maximizing prices in a competitive market is one thing. Charging people prices, that are 4 times as great as the underlying cost in an irrational market whose regulation is overseen by the people supposedly being regulated is something else. Face it. In every healthcare profession, from pharmacy to nursing to medicine, the people who run those professions have done their best to stifle competition to drive up wages and ultimately prices. See Milton Friedman

Milton Friedman Told Us The Answer Decades Ago - Now It'll Probably Be IBM's Watson

The US system is expensive because of a monopoly exerting market power. All monopolies come to an end as a result of changes in technology. We're on the cusp of exactly such a change in medical technology. Health care is going to become cheaper a a result of breaking the monopoly.

www.forbes.com

See the demise of hospital based diploma nursing programs:

My Diploma of Nursing School Experience

I am a diploma-prepared Registered Nurse. People often ask what a diploma is and how does it differ from a Bachelor's or Associate Degree. I'll explain the pros and cons and include a few stories.

owlcation.com

This article on pharmacy education really says it all. Back in the early 1990s to become a licensed pharmacist you needed to get a bachelor's degree. It took five years. Now to be a licensed pharmacist you need a Pharm D which usually takes eight years. This guy is warning that reducing the training time to seven years will be devastating to the profession:
"What colleges of pharmacy should think about if they make this shift en masse is the economic impact on the profession. The move to the all-PharmD led to an exponential increase in pharmacy salaries. Rapidly shifting a large number of schools to a 3-year program is good for schools individually, allowing them to gain a year’s worth of tuition a year earlier and 95 students get to enter the workforce a year earlier. But adding a large wave of pharmacists to a challenging job market could be catastrophic."

Is the 3-Year PharmD the Best Program for the Future?

Why did a top college of pharmacy switch to a 3-year program from a 4-year one?

www.pharmacytimes.com

I like friedman and dislike degree creep but those “blantantly inflated” prices are because those same systems are forced by govt to see tons of unreimbursed care. Let the hospitals kick out non-payers and then start telling me how evil they are for charging extra to cover their losses

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I like friedman and dislike degree creep but those “blantantly inflated” prices are because those same systems are forced by govt to see tons of unreimbursed care. Let the hospitals kick out non-payers and then start telling me how evil they are for charging extra to cover their losses

CCOM doesn't face unreimbursed care. CCOM doesn't own a hospital. CCOM is simply gouging students.

 

[deleted480308]

CCOM doesn't face unreimbursed care. CCOM doesn't own a hospital. CCOM is simply gouging students.

"gouging" doesn't exist. if people pay it, it's the market rate

 

[Cornfed101]

CCOM doesn't face unreimbursed care. CCOM doesn't own a hospital. CCOM is simply gouging students.

Yeah, but this is true of all professional school, not just CCOM

 

[Kardio]

"gouging" doesn't exist.

“Gouging” is sort of philosophical. Maybe this isn’t it, but presumably there’s some sale/purchase scenario where you’d agree the seller’s pricing is unethical.

if people pay it, it's the market rate

I think he is pointing out that the sale / purchase of medical education isn’t an efficient or free market.

I don’t have a strong position on this in general. There’s probably people accepted to CCOM and LECOM, and choose CCOM.

I’m reluctant to call their pricing “gouging” or their practices “predatory.” It’s still a choice to purchase their education.

 

[allantois]

“Gouging” is sort of philosophical. Maybe this isn’t it, but presumably there’s some sale/purchase scenario where you’d agree the seller’s pricing is unethical.



I think he is pointing out that the sale / purchase of medical education isn’t an efficient or free market.

I don’t have a strong position on this in general. There’s probably people accepted to CCOM and LECOM, and choose CCOM.

I’m reluctant to call their pricing “gouging” or their practices “predatory.” It’s still a choice to purchase their education.

And people make stupid choices all the time

 

[allantois]

And I disagree, I think they are scamming the federal government and ultimately the tax payer. When a large number of students attend because they are relying on loan forgiveness, then you better believe it’s not just the problem for those individual students. Free market is not a free for all predatory capitalism.

 

[Splenda88]

“Gouging” is sort of philosophical. Maybe this isn’t it, but presumably there’s some sale/purchase scenario where you’d agree the seller’s pricing is unethical.



I think he is pointing out that the sale / purchase of medical education isn’t an efficient or free market.

I don’t have a strong position on this in general. There’s probably people accepted to CCOM and LECOM, and choose CCOM.

I’m reluctant to call their pricing “gouging” or their practices “predatory.” It’s still a choice to purchase their education.

You already pointed that out... When it comes to med education, the choice is somewhat limited and schools capitalize on that. The first 2 years of medical education is on Youtube.

 

[Kardio]

And people make stupid choices all the time

We live in a society where people are free to make choices. Even if some think they’re stupid.

And I disagree, I think they are scamming the federal government and ultimately the tax payer. When a large number of students attend because they are relying on loan forgiveness, then you better believe it’s not just the problem for those individual students. Free market is not a free for all predatory capitalism.

This isn’t a school with 30% attrition or a low-paying job at the end of training. Maybe my back of the envelope numbers are wrong, but 0.5m debt is probably worth a 0.25m/yr job.

You already pointed that out... When it comes to med education, the choice is somewhat limited and schools capitalize on that. The first 2 years of medical education is in Youtube.

I’m not saying that I agree with the pricing. However, I think it’s unfair to call their practices “predatory.”

 

[deleted480308]

And I disagree, I think they are scamming the federal government and ultimately the tax payer. When a large number of students attend because they are relying on loan forgiveness, then you better believe it’s not just the problem for those individual students. Free market is not a free for all predatory capitalism.

That’s exactly what a free market is, but a system that has govt guaranteeing loans is not free market

 

[allantois]

This isn’t a school with 30% attrition or a low-paying job at the end of training. Maybe my back of the envelope numbers are wrong, but 0.5m debt is probably worth a 0.25m/yr job.

Their medical education is probably a good investment. But they have many other programs (dental, PA, etc) that are also some of the most expensive in the country and which don't pay off as much as a DO degree.

 

[Goro]

And I disagree, I think they are scamming the federal government and ultimately the tax payer. When a large number of students attend because they are relying on loan forgiveness, then you better believe it’s not just the problem for those individual students. Free market is not a free for all predatory capitalism.

A medical education isn't like insulin. You won't die if you never become a doctor. You either apply to CCOM or you don't; the choice is freely made by you.

How are they scamming the gov't when their graduates will find jobs to the tune of a minimum of $200K a year, and make more than that salary over the course of some 40 years? This isn't some Carib predator that dismisses half of the student body by OMSII and then have another 25% never, ever become doctors.