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DrStephenStrange

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      There are med schools in America that don't require the MCAT if you link from certain post-bac programs.
      UMKC (my undergraduate institution) have a 6 year program. You get into it straight from High school, do a 2 year accelerated bachelor, then straight into medical school without the MCAT.

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      Matthew9Thirtyfive

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        which med schools are these? I know there is one program at Sinai that does something like that, but that is from UG not post bac.

        If you have a high enough GPA and SAT/ACT scores, LECOM will let you apply without an MCAT.
         
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        Stagg737

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          which med schools are these? I know there is one program at Sinai that does something like that, but that is from UG not post bac.

          Northwestern University used to accept a select number of individuals from their pre-med honors program straight into medical school before having an MCAT score (MCAT was needed, but score literally didn't matter). A friend's ex (who I went to hs with) got into Feinberg before he had an MCAT through that program. Last I heard he was #1 in his class and is now a Derm resident. I also know this because I accidentally applied to NW's pre-med honors program for UG instead of their general admissions and the individual I'm talking about and I had a good laugh about it later.
           

          libertyyne

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            Northwestern University used to accept a select number of individuals from their pre-med honors program straight into medical school before having an MCAT score (MCAT was needed, but score literally didn't matter). A friend's ex (who I went to hs with) got into Feinberg before he had an MCAT through that program. Last I heard he was #1 in his class and is now a Derm resident. I also know this because I accidentally applied to NW's pre-med honors program for UG instead of their general admissions and the individual I'm talking about and I had a good laugh about it later.
            its never too late to start afresh.
             
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            3toedsloth

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              If your school loses accreditation, you should be able to get out of federal student loans. Call your fed loan provider right away. I hope you weren't paying cash.

              Take the MCAT and go to school in the US at an MD or DO school before going anywhere in the Caribbean.
               
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              WingedOx

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                Northwestern University used to accept a select number of individuals from their pre-med honors program straight into medical school before having an MCAT score (MCAT was needed, but score literally didn't matter). A friend's ex (who I went to hs with) got into Feinberg before he had an MCAT through that program. Last I heard he was #1 in his class and is now a Derm resident. I also know this because I accidentally applied to NW's pre-med honors program for UG instead of their general admissions and the individual I'm talking about and I had a good laugh about it later.

                Was that part of their interflex or whatever the hell it was called program, or something different?
                 
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                Stagg737

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                  Was that part of their interflex or whatever the hell it was called program, or something different?

                  So after some quick research I'm pretty sure this is the program: Undergraduate Premedical Scholars Program (NUPSP): MD Admissions: Feinberg School of Medicine: Northwestern University

                  If you look through the application requirements, no MCAT is required. So this may be another true path that does not require the MCAT to enter medical school. When my acquaintance got accepted, he said that he had to take the MCAT, but the only requirement was that he hit a very low minimal score (I think it was 24, but I don't remember) sometime before he matriculated. Idk if that's still the case, but I know it wasn't required to gain the initial acceptance.
                   

                  WingedOx

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                    So after some quick research I'm pretty sure this is the program: Undergraduate Premedical Scholars Program (NUPSP): MD Admissions: Feinberg School of Medicine: Northwestern University

                    If you look through the application requirements, no MCAT is required. So this may be another true path that does not require the MCAT to enter medical school. When my acquaintance got accepted, he said that he had to take the MCAT, but the only requirement was that he hit a very low minimal score (I think it was 24, but I don't remember) sometime before he matriculated. Idk if that's still the case, but I know it wasn't required to gain the initial acceptance.

                    Interesting.

                    The question of why this actually exists is what stands out in my mind.
                     

                    Stagg737

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                      Interesting.

                      The question of why this actually exists is what stands out in my mind.

                      Not sure, my guess is either extrinsic motivation for pre-med individuals to do better as a whole or possibly for individuals who the school felt had a strong work ethic and were intelligent enough but were concerned about their test-taking abilities outside of science (the person I knew was an outstanding UG applicant in every area except ACT score, which was still good but far from stellar). Could also just be an attempt to keep the most promising students from their UG class at NW for med school as opposed to letting them go to other elite programs.
                       

                      newsubstancep

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                        OP. Do not stay in your school and do not follow the owner trying to open a new school. Your options are either to move to a more reputable carib program (start from the top of the Big 4 list and call your way through all better known carib schools until someone accepts you)... or to completely start over and abandon carib medicine.

                        As much as things seem bad for the OP, its a lot worse for his classmates who probably havent even thought of the implications of the school losing accreditation and will continue paying money to this joke school.
                         
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                        mcat_taker

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                          Interesting.

                          The question of why this actually exists is what stands out in my mind.

                          Programs like this, and I'm familiar with Sinai having/had a similar one, are designed for high achieving undergrad students to pursue outside academic interests and majors without the pressure of needing a ton of science courses in their schedule in prep for the MCAT. Since a lot of premed students have traditionally been biology majors or similar for example, it's a way to diversify the med school class and have a good mix of backgrounds. Removing the MCAT requirement helps in bringing those types of students on board.

                          But these types of programs are for amazing students who would have been successful no matter what, in other words, the school doesn't need an MCAT score to verify their abilities.
                           
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                          livelearn

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                            Hey, so my caribbean medical school recently lost its ECFMG sponsor notes and has not been able to receive them. The owner of my school decided to start another medical school and is trying to get sponsor notes at that one (hopefully this March/April). Would it be a better option for me to go there or transfer to another school?

                            Note: any other school will not accept unaccredited transfer credits therefore I would have to start over. This school does. Also, I did not take MCAT.

                            Please no hate comments bc I know I'm in a horrible situation and it's probably a lose/lose situation. But I really need some actual advice.


                            What school is this?
                            You can try to transfer but any the Caribbean school that will accept you will not be one that is reputable and you can forget being a doctor. I wouldn't bother. If you truly want to become a doctor work really hard on scoring high on your MCAT and try to get into a US medical school again. From experience most Caribbean schools screw you over in the end. Stay away from MUA and Windsor
                             

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                              2packy

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                                I'm fairly sure that the OP is referring to, Washington Medical Sciences Institute (wmsi-edu.us). I checked the schools status on World Directory of Medical Schools, and it has indeed not able to get ECFMG Certification. (search.wdoms{}org/home/SchoolDetail/F0002561)

                                Sorry, i'm unable to post a link for some reason.
                                 

                                Caribpro

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                                  I'm fairly sure that the OP is referring to, Washington Medical Sciences Institute (wmsi-edu.us). I checked the schools status on World Directory of Medical Schools, and it has indeed not able to get ECFMG Certification. (search.wdoms{}org/home/SchoolDetail/F0002561)

                                  Sorry, i'm unable to post a link for some reason.

                                  Could also be one of the many (4 or 5?) in St. Lucia
                                   

                                  GypsyHummus

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                                    Because it wasn’t the OPs fault that the school when out of business, if he were to come back stateside and do fine on the MCAT (508+), would he stand a chance at DO schools or no? I know it’s essentially a no go for people who failed out.

                                    OP, if MD/DO is a no go, look into DPM. Plenty of people from the Carribean who failed end up at podiatry school and thank their lucky stars they did.


                                    Poor research skills and an inability to delay gratification are among several negative personality traits what drive the profits for these predatory institution.
                                     
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                                    Goro

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                                      Because it wasn’t the OPs fault that the school when out of business, if he were to come back stateside and do fine on the MCAT (508+), would he stand a chance at DO schools or no? I know it’s essentially a no go for people who failed out.

                                      OP, if MD/DO is a no go, look into DPM. Plenty of people from the Carribean who failed end up at podiatry school and thank their lucky stars they did.

                                      At my school s/he would have a massive uphill battle. The OP could have gone to a DO school (and would be halfway through their journey by now ), but felt that the MD was more important.

                                      OK made his/her bed, and now has to lie in it.
                                       

                                      pwrpuff24

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                                        Hey there,
                                        I'm in the same boat as you. My school lost it's accreditation too. Trying to figure out what to do. I would love to sue the school but it's overseas in the Caribbean so I don't know what laws would be applicable. Anyway it really sucks to have lose all that money, time and energy. Have you found a solution yet? I've completed pre-med long time ago so don't remember much. Have so much in debt. I've been contemplating on what to do and the only thing I can think of is applying to medical school here in the USA, wish I did that originally, but have to find the time to do that...
                                         

                                        EmeraldDragon

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                                          ECFMG is not an accrediting body. If your school loses its ECFMG listing/recognition, you are in a world of trouble and should jump ship immediately. Your school was likely not accredited in any way, and any future schools opened by the same people are money grabs.
                                           
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                                          OliviaA

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                                            Seems like I can relate to this. ECFMG recently put in red print on the world directory that "students and graduates are subject to enhanced procedures that must be met in order to be eligible to apply for ECFMG Certification"

                                            I feel as though this may mean curtains for this school. I see two options (either start all the way back and try to get into a US medical school or transfer out). Do you all think transferring out makes sense?
                                             

                                            libertyyne

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                                              Seems like I can relate to this. ECFMG recently put in red print on the world directory that "students and graduates are subject to enhanced procedures that must be met in order to be eligible to apply for ECFMG Certification"

                                              I feel as though this may mean curtains for this school. I see two options (either start all the way back and try to get into a US medical school or transfer out). Do you all think transferring out makes sense?
                                              I think that reads like enhanced checks for fmg, not us citizens.
                                               

                                              RNtoMD87

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                                                How on earth would the aamc be able to do anything to schools that are not accredited by them?
                                                If they aren’t accredited how do they lead to residencies? I’m not talking about ones that lost their accreditation. I’m saying why don’t they say after such and such date we will no longer accredit any such school? Carribean sounds like a straight up scam.
                                                 

                                                RNtoMD87

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                                                  I guess it’s confusing to me.

                                                  Let’s say you go to med school in India, and try to get into an American residency. From my understanding- isn’t gonna happen.

                                                  Why are carribean schools any different?
                                                   

                                                  dpmd

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                                                    If they aren’t accredited how do they lead to residencies? I’m not talking about ones that lost their accreditation. I’m saying why don’t they say after such and such date we will no longer accredit any such school? Carribean sounds like a straight up scam.
                                                    They are accredited by bodies outside of the US. The carribean schools are accredited by carribean accreditation organizations. Though in searching for this sort of info I discovered that the US and Canada pushed for some changes and now ecfmg will only certify students from schools who have been accredited by an organization that is certified by the world federation of medical education but that only means that the accrediting organization uses some sort of standard for evaluating schools, not that the schools meet any specific criteria so it all depends on locally run accrediting bodies which may have financial interest in ensuring a school attains or remains accredited.
                                                     
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                                                    the argus

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                                                      I guess it’s confusing to me.

                                                      Let’s say you go to med school in India, and try to get into an American residency. From my understanding- isn’t gonna happen.

                                                      Why are carribean schools any different?
                                                      You're understanding is very poor.

                                                      Literally thousands of people who go to medical school in India start residency in the US every year. In fact, >7,000 foreign medical graduates (both US citizens and non-citizens) started PGY1 positions in 2017 (most recent year for which we have complete data).
                                                      https://www.acgme.org/About-Us/Publ...Graduate-Medical-Education-Data-Resource-Book

                                                      This is because the US medical training system (i.e. residency programs) requires >7,000 more people every year than the US medical education system (MD and DO schools combined) provides. 2500-3000 of these are US-IMGs (mostly Caribbean grads) and the rest are foreign-IMGs (majority from India).

                                                      Caribbean medical schools exist because of the deficiencies of the US medical education system. Plain and simple.

                                                      It's asinine that thousands of US citizens, who are willing and able to become physicians, must go outside the US for medical education every year for no other reason than the powers that be for US MD/DO schools refuse to increase enrollment.
                                                       
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                                                      RNtoMD87

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                                                        You're understanding is very poor.

                                                        Literally thousands of people who go to medical school in India start residency in the US every year. In fact, >7,000 foreign medical graduates (both US citizens and non-citizens) started PGY1 positions in 2017 (most recent year for which we have complete data).
                                                        https://www.acgme.org/About-Us/Publ...Graduate-Medical-Education-Data-Resource-Book

                                                        This is because the US medical training system (i.e. residency programs) requires >7,000 more people every year than the US medical education system (MD and DO schools combined) provides. 2500-3000 of these are US-IMGs (mostly Caribbean grads) and the rest are foreign-IMGs (majority from India).

                                                        Caribbean medical schools exist because of the deficiencies of the US medical education system. Plain and simple.

                                                        It's asinine that thousands of US citizens, who are willing and able to become physicians, must go outside the US for medical education every year for no other reason than the powers that be for US MD/DO schools refuse to increase enrollment.
                                                        Yeah... my understanding is very poor considering my backgrounds are the military and nursing and I’ve only looked into Med for maybe 7 months and my little free time I have I focused on getting in. There’s a lot to understand. No argument there.

                                                        Three nurses on my unit were doctors in other countries: Ukraine, China, and Germany. They said that they would’ve had to start the whole process over and they are middle aged so they chose to go to nursing school. That is partly why I thought foreign doctors were completely disregarded here.
                                                         
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                                                        the argus

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                                                          Yeah... my understanding is very poor considering my backgrounds are the military and nursing and I’ve only looked into Med for maybe 7 months and my little free time I have I focused on getting in. There’s a lot to understand. No argument there.

                                                          Three nurses on my unit were doctors in other countries: Ukraine, China, and Germany. They said that they would’ve had to start the whole process over and they are middle aged so they chose to go to nursing school. That is partly why I thought foreign doctors were completely disregarded here.
                                                          By start the whole process over they meant starting with residency. Certain states may not recognize certain foreign medical schools, but for the most part most foreign medical schools are recognized by most states.

                                                          To practice medicine in the US, you need (among other things) to do a residency in the US. To get a residency in the US, you need to have passed all the USMLEs. Most foreign physicians, especially older ones that have been practicing for years, are unwilling to study and pass all the USMLEs and then complete a residency program, where the hours are long and pay is low (comparitively).

                                                          Foreign citizens are also at a disadvantage when applying for residency as the programs must sponsor a visa, often do cultural training, etc.
                                                           
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                                                          RNtoMD87

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                                                            By start the whole process over they meant starting with residency. Certain states may not recognize certain foreign medical schools, but for the most part most foreign medical schools are recognized by most states.

                                                            To practice medicine in the US, you need (among other things) to do a residency in the US. To get a residency in the US, you need to have passed all the USMLEs. Most foreign physicians, especially older ones that have been practicing for years, are unwilling to study and pass all the USMLEs and then complete a residency program, where the hours are long and pay is low (comparitively).

                                                            Foreign citizens are also at a disadvantage when applying for residency as the programs must sponsor a visa, often do cultural training, etc.
                                                            Another experienced nurse is African born, completed a Carribean medical school and presumably couldn’t match (she’s really bitter and won’t discuss it, and scoffs at the idea of going to medical school). Isn’t there something she could have done other than choose another field?
                                                             

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                                                              Another experienced nurse is African born, completed a Carribean medical school and presumably couldn’t match (she’s really bitter and won’t discuss it, and scoffs at the idea of going to medical school). Isn’t there something she could have done other than choose another field?

                                                              "Why didn't I Match?"

                                                              -Skip
                                                               

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                                                                That would suck to be an MD and not be able to practice


                                                                I have noticed that incompetent people try to make their plight seem like the norm, so they don’t feel as useless. In nursing school I had a concerned aunt that kept telling me to have a backup plan because the boards were really hard, her husband failed the boards 3x and was SOL. So naturally I was concerned.

                                                                The nursing boards are a joke. Of the allotted six hours, it took me 45 minutes and cut off at the minimum 75 questions. (I honestly thought I had failed miserably because I doubted I could have done that well). Turns out my aunts husband was just dumb or lazy.

                                                                Hope it’s the same with medicine.
                                                                 
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                                                                RNtoMD87

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                                                                  That's funny I can picture this person in my head

                                                                  I'd say that's a big chunk of Caribbean students, entitled for no reason and unwilling or unable to do the work
                                                                  It’s hard to see though when you see her. She’s probably the best nurse on the whole ICU unit, and the one we all go to for advice. Just really keeps to herself, very private person. She passed school because my manager told me she is technically an MD.

                                                                  She’s actually quite respectable.

                                                                  Only quirk is that we have to do her male Foley’s. Dunno what religion she is but she can’t touch any penis other than her husbands. Never knew that was a thing.
                                                                   
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                                                                    That would suck to be have an MD degree and not be able to practice

                                                                    FTFY

                                                                    You can not legally call yourself "doctor" in the U.S. unless you have a license to practice. In other words, pretty much all you have is a piece of paper if you don't have a license.

                                                                    And, yeah. That would suck.

                                                                    -Skip
                                                                     
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                                                                    Caribpro

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                                                                      FTFY

                                                                      You can not legally call yourself "doctor" in the U.S. unless you have a license to practice. In other words, pretty much all you have is a piece of paper if you don't have a license.

                                                                      And, yeah. That would suck.

                                                                      -Skip


                                                                      Thats not true. Look at Dr. Phil :laugh: You can call yourself doctor all you want, but if you try to actually practice medicine without a license you will go to jail.

                                                                      Interestingly there are legally protected titles, but Dr. isn't one of them...
                                                                       
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