Neurology or Neurosurgery? (San Diego)

[Inquisitive Idiot]

Hiya,

I apologize in advance if this thread is in the wrong place. If it is, please move it or let me know where I can ask instead...

I'm a premed student and fascinated with the brain and nervous system, and interested in both Neurology and Neurosurgery, but need some help deciding.

I know these questions are sort of crass, and many people have asked them before, (on this forum and others), but answers are always extremely varied, and also depend on where you work.

Because of that, I would appreciate answers from anyone who works for UCSD Medical Center (or any of the UC Medical Centers in CA), or Scripps in San Diego. Preferrably in non-teaching, non-research positions.



Questions...

1. How many hours per week (on average) does a Neurologist work? How about a Neurosurgeon (both post-residency)? What kind of rotations does each one do? What's your home life like? (If any)

2. What is the approximate salary of a Neurologist or a Neurosurgeon in the San Diego area? How about UCSD vs Scripps? (The averages listed on various websites don't distinguish between where you work).

3. Anyone know the difference between working for UCSD Med Center and Scripps? (Especially as it relates to shifts/money?).

4. Sort of unrelated to the previous questions, but I'd like to know what sorts of doctors work together the most (on the same rotations). In other words, do two neurosurgeons work together, or is it just one in the OR? What about two neurologists? Or a neurologist and a neurosurgeon? What about a neurosurgeon and an anesthesiologist? Not that I'm trying to plan anything out, just curious as to what two doctors might collaborate the most and see the most of each other on the same shift rotations week after week. Or does every different doctor sort of do their own thing?



Anyone?

To be clear, I already know that any residency is going to be a nightmare timewise, and I know neurosurgery is also very time intensive pre or post residency, so my main interest is what happens afterwards. i.e. Mid-career. Any mid-career Neurologists or Neurosurgeons out there care to share?

If anyone has answers to any of these, I welcome and thank you for any input!

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[Danny L]

Dude you're a pre med. Just get into the best med school you can and then you can decide later

Also you should probably spend some time shadowing both but don't think too much about it. There's a possibility you might not even qualify for those specialties if you don't do well enough on the USMLE.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

Dude you're a pre med. Just get into the best med school you can and then you can decide later

Also you should probably spend some time shadowing both but don't think too much about it. There's a possibility you might not even qualify for those specialties if you don't do well enough on the USMLE.

True, but there's no harm in long-term planning, or just asking around. If I don't get into either, (or even med-school) then I'll cross those bridges as I come to them.

 

[Danny L]

True, but there's no harm in long-term planning, or just asking around. If I don't get into either, (or even med-school) then I'll cross those bridges as I come to them.

Fair, although I think most people here recommend you don't get too attached to any specialties too early

Anyway I'm guessing you go to school in/are from the SD area, and if so I'd try to shadow a neurologist/neurosurgeon at those clinics you're interested in and ask them those questions. Most med schools expect shadowing anyway so you could kill two birds with one stone there

 

[Thama]

The fact that you are considering both neurology and neurosurgery simply means you aren't even close to being ready to begin considering what specialty you actually want to do. Most people who choose neurology were either considering medicine or psych, occasionally radiology. Most people who go into neurosurgery were considering other surgical specialties like ENT or ortho. Outside of the neuro ICU setting there is very little overlap in what you actually do day to day between the two specialties and even there it's not that much overlap.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

Fair, although I think most people here recommend you don't get too attached to any specialties too early

Anyway I'm guessing you go to school in/are from the SD area, and if so I'd try to shadow a neurologist/neurosurgeon at those clinics you're interested in and ask them those questions. Most med schools expect shadowing anyway so you could kill two birds with one stone there

I think beyond the general salary/hours questions, I'm more interested in Questions #3 and #4.
i.e. Is there a difference between a university Medical Center and an actual Hospital? In other words, if you're a doctor at a university med center, are you "expected" to teach and/or do research, or can you just be there to work?

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

The fact that you are considering both neurology and neurosurgery simply means you aren't even close to being ready to begin considering what specialty you actually want to do. Most people who choose neurology were either considering medicine or psych, occasionally radiology. Most people who go into neurosurgery were considering other surgical specialties like ENT or ortho. Outside of the neuro ICU setting there is very little overlap in what you actually do day to day between the two specialties and even there it's not that much overlap.

Thank you, I know full well the differences between diagnostic work and surgery positions. I'm aware there's essentially no overlap with the exception of consultation before surgery. Since I'm not far along in the process, and just trying to get a feel for the work/life balance of each (and the differences between a university med center and a private hospital), I'm focused less on deciding right now and more on just getting ideas from the answers to my four questions.

 

[Amygdarya]

Thank you, I know full well the differences between diagnostic work and surgery positions. I'm aware there's essentially no overlap with the exception of consultation before surgery. Since I'm not far along in the process, and just trying to get a feel for the work/life balance of each (and the differences between a university med center and a private hospital), I'm focused less on deciding right now and more on just getting ideas from the answers to my four questions.

"Full well", "diagnostic work" and "consultation before surgery", huh?
Your questions and comments betray how little you know about either of these specialties (as is, basically nothing at all). While most people won't deny that work environment/salary/life style are important considerations for choosing a specialty, you're getting waaaaay ahead of yourself. As was already suggested, start by shadowing. Then get into medical school. Chances are, your interests and geographic priorities will change, not to mention that you really can't appreciate how hard and competitive medical training is unless you're in it. Most people he to match at a good program in the specialty of their choice in their desired region; thinking that you - at a pre-med stage! - can choose which specialty to go into based on the assumption that you will end up working at Scripps is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, and by the way, getting to work at such strong academic medical centers as UCSD and Scripps takes a solid research CV, whether you like it or not. Because cutting edge research is precisely why these institutions are so prestigious. If you're not interested in research and teaching, your best bet is to stay away from prestigious academic institutions regardless of which specialty you go into.

 

[Thama]

In that case you should focus on those questions as they apply to neurology here and go to the neurosurgery forum for their perspective, as most of us are roughly as qualified to answer them as they apply to neurosurgery as we are as they apply to OB-GYN.

But for neurology:

1) That depends wildly on subspecialty. Could be anywhere from ~40-50 in the case of a very laid back job in sleep or EEG, to ~80 (but with weeks off) for a neurointensivist or stroke with heavy call burden. Most neurologists focus on the outpatient setting and average in the 50-60 range. You don't do "rotations" after residency, you do your job.
2) Can't help you for that specific area but nationally averages are in the ~200-220 range. Much more for private practice in terrible places (300+). Much less for highly competitive academic centers (often less than 140).
3) Sorry.
4) Neurologists will generally see others within their own practice especially their own specialty. Neurointensivists will work with neurosurgeons and stroke docs. Movement docs will work with functional neurosurgeons for DBS. Sleep docs will often have pulmonologists in their practice. The list is probably too long to complete.

 

[Nymphicus]

I have worked on various neurology services throughout San Diego. Additionally, I have worked at UCSD and Scripps. Briefly, UCSD is a much larger academic center.

However,

I'm a premed student and fascinated with the brain and nervous system, and interested in both Neurology and Neurosurgery, but need some help deciding.

Once you get to a point in medical school where the above question is worth asking, you will realize that the above are wildly different in approach, training, and lifestyle. Also, psychiatry is another speciality that deals with the brain, with a specific interest in behavior.

 

[Ismet]

Moving to pre-medical forum

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

Moving to pre-medical forum

Thank you!

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

"Full well", "diagnostic work" and "consultation before surgery", huh?
Your questions and comments betray how little you know about either of these specialties (as is, basically nothing at all). While most people won't deny that work environment/salary/life style are important considerations for choosing a specialty, you're getting waaaaay ahead of yourself. As was already suggested, start by shadowing. Then get into medical school. Chances are, your interests and geographic priorities will change, not to mention that you really can't appreciate how hard and competitive medical training is unless you're in it. Most people he to match at a good program in the specialty of their choice in their desired region; thinking that you - at a pre-med stage! - can choose which specialty to go into based on the assumption that you will end up working at Scripps is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, and by the way, getting to work at such strong academic medical centers as UCSD and Scripps takes a solid research CV, whether you like it or not. Because cutting edge research is precisely why these institutions are so prestigious. If you're not interested in research and teaching, your best bet is to stay away from prestigious academic institutions regardless of which specialty you go into.

I was trying to be polite and avoid a confrontation. But the laws of Internet Forums seem to prevent that, even on a forum designed to help answer questions. This isn't a reddit thread. Rather than focusing on my backstory, or how little I know, I'd appreciate it if people who responded to my thread were genuinely helpful instead of condescending and rude. As Dr. Lecter would say, "Now you're being rude, and I hate rude people."

If I don't know something, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. I admit I have no experience in any of this whatsoever, and am only basing what I write on things I've read in other forums/threads. I admit these are the very early days. And as far as "thinking I can choose which specialty" I go into, I'd appreciate if you toned down your own presumptuousness. I haven't a clue what will happen to me as the years go on or where I will end up. This thread isn't about that. AT ALL.

This thread is nothing more than hypothetical questions and fantasy. It's to help me get an idea of what's what's what. Capisce?

That in mind... got any actual answers to the 4 questions I posted?

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

In that case you should focus on those questions as they apply to neurology here and go to the neurosurgery forum for their perspective, as most of us are roughly as qualified to answer them as they apply to neurosurgery as we are as they apply to OB-GYN.

But for neurology:

1) That depends wildly on subspecialty. Could be anywhere from ~40-50 in the case of a very laid back job in sleep or EEG, to ~80 (but with weeks off) for a neurointensivist or stroke with heavy call burden. Most neurologists focus on the outpatient setting and average in the 50-60 range. You don't do "rotations" after residency, you do your job.
2) Can't help you for that specific area but nationally averages are in the ~200-220 range. Much more for private practice in terrible places (300+). Much less for highly competitive academic centers (often less than 140).
3) Sorry.
4) Neurologists will generally see others within their own practice especially their own specialty. Neurointensivists will work with neurosurgeons and stroke docs. Movement docs will work with functional neurosurgeons for DBS. Sleep docs will often have pulmonologists in their practice. The list is probably too long to complete.

Gotchya. Since most of the things I've read seem to be from residents talking about their schedules, I'm not sure how life works after one is finished with residency. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how life works across the different types of medical establishments anyway (hospital vs outpatient clinic vs university medical center etc). I was wondering about the different settings. Does an outpatient clinic mean that mean they're not "on call" and that most all patients are scheduled? Or are there still times when doctors at outpatient clinics will be called in (sort of like a dentist with a patient who has a tooth emergency)?

Also, as far as your answer to #4, why do neurologists work together? Compare notes?

Thank you again.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

I have worked on various neurology services throughout San Diego. Additionally, I have worked at UCSD and Scripps. Briefly, UCSD is a much larger academic center.

However,


Once you get to a point in medical school where the above question is worth asking, you will realize that the above are wildly different in approach, training, and lifestyle. Also, psychiatry is another speciality that deals with the brain, with a specific interest in behavior.

Ehh... I'm less interested in behavior and more in physical things like tumors, intracranial aneurysms, etc, although perhaps that falls more under radiology(?). Do psychiatrists deal with such things?

 

[candbgirl]

How far along in your education are you? M1? PreMed? HS? Have you done any shadowing? If so in what areas?
All doctors work with others at some point usually on a daily basis! Some patients require a team of specialists and the docs can't be operating independently. And it's always good to get a different perspective on some patients. I think you have a preconceived notion of how doctors work. And that can cause problems as you progress. I'm also getting the feeling you don't want to work with anyone. Is that right? Maybe try spending time shadowing at UCSD and Scripps and any other local
hospital that has your two specialities of interest. Unless you are finishing M3 and getting ready to apply to residencies you have time to figure stuff out. But then again if that's the case, you would have a better understanding how the practice of medicine works. Good luck as you try to work your way through this.


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[lickerwhicker]

Hi! I agree with what a lot of people have said here, but I think it's better if you think about those questions later on in your career. I think you should be more open to other specialties besides neurosurgery and neurology because once you enter medical school, you may realize that you're more interested in another specialty! A lot of people don't really figure out what specialty they want to go in until after medical school. My friend is a neuroscience major and she has only done neuroscience research and shadowing, and looking back, she kind of regrets it because she feels that she didn't expand her horizons more as a pre-med. I think you should shadow both neurosurgeons and neurologists to see which specialty would suit you better, but also be open to primary care and other specialties.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Ehh... I'm less interested in behavior and more in physical things like tumors, intracranial aneurysms, etc, although perhaps that falls more under radiology(?). Do psychiatrists deal with such things?

Those things are essentially entirely within neurosurgeries domain except for the medical aspects of neuro oncology. That being said most neurosurgeons fo a lot more spine than aneurysms or brain tumors. Neurosurgery is sexy but it comes at a high cost that most people will only appreciate later in life. You dont get a coupon to relive nearly a decade of training so I woulf argue that ignoring residency lifestyle during your decision making is a bad choice because youre giving up the prime years of your life. Go shadow a neurosurgeon then come back and revise your questions.

 

[GnothiSeauton]

I was trying to be polite and avoid a confrontation. But the laws of Internet Forums seem to prevent that, even on a forum designed to help answer questions. This isn't a reddit thread. Rather than focusing on my backstory, or how little I know, I'd appreciate it if people who responded to my thread were genuinely helpful instead of condescending and rude. As Dr. Lecter would say, "Now you're being rude, and I hate rude people."

If I don't know something, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. I admit I have no experience in any of this whatsoever, and am only basing what I write on things I've read in other forums/threads. I admit these are the very early days. And as far as "thinking I can choose which specialty" I go into, I'd appreciate if you toned down your own presumptuousness. I haven't a clue what will happen to me as the years go on or where I will end up. This thread isn't about that. AT ALL.

This thread is nothing more than hypothetical questions and fantasy. It's to help me get an idea of what's what's what. Capisce?

That in mind... got any actual answers to the 4 questions I posted?

I don't have answers to your questions, but in the name of all that is holy, the gate-keeping that happens when less experienced individuals come to these forums looking for some perspective is insufferable. You asked perfectly reasonable questions in a perfectly reasonable fashion and along come these condescending ego-strokers telling you that you don't rate. I've got your back, for what it's worth.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

I don't have answers to your questions, but in the name of all that is holy, the gate-keeping that happens when less experienced individuals come to these forums looking for some perspective is insufferable. You asked perfectly reasonable questions in a perfectly reasonable fashion and along come these condescending ego-strokers telling you that you don't rate. I've got your back, for what it's worth.

I don't have answers to your questions, but in the name of all that is holy, the gate-keeping that happens when less experienced individuals come to these forums looking for some perspective is insufferable. You asked perfectly reasonable questions in a perfectly reasonable fashion and along come these condescending ego-strokers telling you that you don't rate. I've got your back, for what it's worth.

Thank you. Yeah, to be fair, I’m also getting a bit tired of people saying I should shadow, or not think about xyz specialty until xyz point during med school, etc. I know that. I get it. Someone already said it. It was good advice the first time. Don’t repeat it. Moving on. I know I need to shadow certain doctors to get an idea of what’s what within each specialty. I know there’s no telling what I may or may not be interested in down the road, but that wasn't the point of my post. So for anyone else reading this post… let me spell it out for them:
I’M OBVIOUSLY NOT MAKING (RE: CAN’T MAKE) ANY DECISIONS AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME!!! STOP COMMENTING ON IT! I’M JUST ASKING SOME QUESTIONS!!!
Not sure if I was clear enough on that point, but there you go. The problem is that apart from face-to-face communication (shadowing), I’m finding it hard to get direct hold of a doctor to answer questions online. Which is why I came here. Although now, I’m starting to regret it. But thank you again.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

How far along in your education are you? M1? PreMed? HS? Have you done any shadowing? If so in what areas?
All doctors work with others at some point usually on a daily basis! Some patients require a team of specialists and the docs can't be operating independently. And it's always good to get a different perspective on some patients. I think you have a preconceived notion of how doctors work. And that can cause problems as you progress. I'm also getting the feeling you don't want to work with anyone. Is that right? Maybe try spending time shadowing at UCSD and Scripps and any other local
hospital that has your two specialities of interest. Unless you are finishing M3 and getting ready to apply to residencies you have time to figure stuff out. But then again if that's the case, you would have a better understanding how the practice of medicine works. Good luck as you try to work your way through this.


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I have a bachelor’s degree (History) and am now pursuing the prerequisites needed to apply to medical school (teaching/librarianship wasn’t my thing). No, no shadowing yet, as I said, these are the early days and I haven't had much spare time recently. I’m still finishing O-Chem, etc.

No, no, that’s not it at all! I’m perfectly happy to work with others, I’m just curious as to what kinds of doctors generally work together more frequently (be they of different specialties or the same specialty), and which are sort of ships passing on the ocean, who never seem to see the same other doctors twice, sort of thing. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

In the same vein, perhaps you might know… let’s say you have an Imaging center full of Radiologists. Do they generally work together (same hours, etc), or does each one sort of do their own thing? A previous post stated that Neurologists generally work together. Does the same apply here?

 

[candbgirl]

Well let's see. I have a whole team of docs that consult with each other about me. I started with a rheumatologist because I have SLE and other autoimmune issues. I've had these issues for many years. A few years back I developed a skin infection. My rheumatologist (who I consider my PCP) referred me to dermatology. After several months of biopsies and cultures they found I had an extremely rare infection that earned me a trip to Infectious diseases. After several months in experimental antibiotics I saw a Plastic Surgeon who eventually cut the infection out. These four docs are in frequent communication with each other about me and my issues. When I see my ID tomorrow she will know everything that has happened with me since I last saw her. She will have talked to the others or read their notes. I see one of these docs at least once a month. I see other docs too but only a couple of times a year or as needed. I know if I can't reach my rheumatologist I can reach one of the others and they will know what is going on with me. I also know I'm very lucky that I have docs that are concerned about me and are great at follow up.

As to Radiologists I have no idea how they work. It's been my experience that a tech takes the image and sends it on to a doc to read and report. I go to a very large University Hospital that has many residents. I've seen X-ray reports that are written/signed by a resident and them read and signed by an attending. And I know for sure that Radiology is open 24/7.


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[ReneeM]

In the same vein, perhaps you might know… let’s say you have an Imaging center full of Radiologists. Do they generally work together (same hours, etc), or does each one sort of do their own thing? A previous post stated that Neurologists generally work together. Does the same apply here?

At the hospital where I work (large community facility) the radiologists work in the same room and seem to socialize a lot among themselves. Usually they work the same 10-12 hours together and a few rotate to cover nights alone. They also rotate through IR where they work with techs and nurse to preform procedures. They'll consult other physicians (like EM), but they try to avoid contact with non-rad docs around here.

IR is pretty cool to shadow. I also liked shadowing a hospitalist. Since I was with her for a few 12 shifts, I got to meet a lot of specialists, interns/residents, and sit in on some administrative meetings. Even if you aren't interested in IM I think it was a great way to make connections.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Ok, so I am a resident about to finish, and let me give you some primer about medical training.

Medical training is a story of sacrifice.

Be prepared to leave your hometown and never come back, or if you do comeback, much later in life (if that's San Diego).

Be prepared to leave any speciality you desire if you just aren't competitive enough for it (for example, neurosurgery)

Be prepare to never be able to work at a certain hospital. UCSD and Scripps are places where there is no guarantees.

Be prepared to leave medicine behind, if you can't get into med school.

So let me give you the answer that you may not want but you may need.

Do you want to be a physician badly enough that you are ok with never coming back to California and settle down with someone in the midwest? To hardly ever have in and out again? To be mostly away from people who look like you? Leave most of your friends behind?

When you decide the answer to those questions, we can talk.

 

[Hyelampa_2016]

You should listen to this podcast by Dr. Ryan Gray called "specialty stories". He actually interviews physicians from different specialties and who work in different clinical settings that range from academic centers to community clinics. Some of the interviews have already had neurologists and a neurosurgeon. Your answers may be present in those episodes. Have fun!

 

[libertyyne]

 

[cactusman]

Why are you asking about UCSD and Scripps if you have no interest in teaching or research? As prestigious academic institutions, they'll probably pay you less but you will be doing work you could do at another hospital or practice.

Also, keep in mind that while the nervous systems is cool, a lot of things in the body are fascinating, and imperfectly understood, and have major effects on mental health and wellbeing. We love to fixate on ~~~the brain~~~ and the mystery around it but I think you'll find it stands out less as you learn more.

As for being tired of the gate keeping - I get where you're coming from, but there are reasons that people get annoyed. If you focus on a specialty early, you might ignore other better career fits. You might become overly stressed. And when things in your post don't really make sense (e.g. why would anyone be comparing neurosurg and neuro), it suggests that you don't want to bother with basic research or are getting ahead of yourself (again, narrowing things down too early can get unhealthy) based on weak information.

 

[Inquisitive Idiot]

Okay, so, maybe it’s the lack of patience talking at this point, but this thread has basically devolved into pretty much what I’ve seen everywhere on this site: Traumatized residents waxing philosophic about, “I seen some things maaaan, and some stuff. Wouldn’t recommend it,” and snooty, borderline sociopathic residents going on about how it’s stupid for me to have a plan or enter medical school with any sort of agenda (even though I’m really not).

Joke’s on all of you… I don’t have a plan. I don’t have expectations. The only expectation I have is that I’ll make up my mind as to what I want to do once I’ve gone through four years of medical school. I don’t care if I end up in one of the specialties I listed, or something else entirely. I don’t care if I work in San Diego, CA or Flyoverville, KS. Whatever happens, happens. Point to all of that is… IT WASN’T RELEVANT TO THIS THREAD!!!

I just wanted a few quick EASY questions answered. Instead, I was bombarded with comment after comment about how I should job shadow, or stop thinking I should do X, (despite giving no indication I planned to), or worst of all, the people who constantly ask “Why are you thinking about X?” Who cares?!?! It was just a question! Got a REAL answer? No?! DON’T RESOND! Don’t try to stitch together clues as to what you think my “motives” are for asking a few simple questions. I would have been happier with one person (or zero) commenting on this thread if it meant that the one person who responded gave me a decent answer relevant to the questions I asked. I mean, for crying out loud, if medical school itself is anything like what I’ve experienced on this site where people can’t follow simple instructions, I weep for the medical industry.

To those of you who were kind enough to SORT OF answer the four questions I posted, thank you.

To the rest of you… Since uninvited, irrelevant advice in lieu of requested answers to questions is commonplace on this site, I would recommend you don’t quit your day jobs, because advice online isn’t your strong suit. Quit while you’re ahead.

And the next time some newbie asks a question, try to answer it straightforwardly, without questioning their motives, ridiculing the question itself, or offering something you consider to be sage advice but which is completely irrelevant to the newbie’s question.

If any moderator/admin is reading this, I’d be forever grateful if you just deleted the whole thread, so maybe down the road I can start a new one (perhaps asking just one question at a time). This obviously isn’t working out the way it was intended.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Okay, so, maybe it’s the lack of patience talking at this point, but this thread has basically devolved into pretty much what I’ve seen everywhere on this site: Traumatized residents waxing philosophic about, “I seen some things maaaan, and some stuff. Wouldn’t recommend it,” and snooty, borderline sociopathic residents going on about how it’s stupid for me to have a plan or enter medical school with any sort of agenda (even though I’m really not).

Joke’s on all of you… I don’t have a plan. I don’t have expectations. The only expectation I have is that I’ll make up my mind as to what I want to do once I’ve gone through four years of medical school. I don’t care if I end up in one of the specialties I listed, or something else entirely. I don’t care if I work in San Diego, CA or Flyoverville, KS. Whatever happens, happens. Point to all of that is… IT WASN’T RELEVANT TO THIS THREAD!!!

I just wanted a few quick EASY questions answered. Instead, I was bombarded with comment after comment about how I should job shadow, or stop thinking I should do X, (despite giving no indication I planned to), or worst of all, the people who constantly ask “Why are you thinking about X?” Who cares?!?! It was just a question! Got a REAL answer? No?! DON’T RESOND! Don’t try to stitch together clues as to what you think my “motives” are for asking a few simple questions. I would have been happier with one person (or zero) commenting on this thread if it meant that the one person who responded gave me a decent answer relevant to the questions I asked. I mean, for crying out loud, if medical school itself is anything like what I’ve experienced on this site where people can’t follow simple instructions, I weep for the medical industry.

To those of you who were kind enough to SORT OF answer the four questions I posted, thank you.

To the rest of you… Since uninvited, irrelevant advice in lieu of requested answers to questions is commonplace on this site, I would recommend you don’t quit your day jobs, because advice online isn’t your strong suit. Quit while you’re ahead.

And the next time some newbie asks a question, try to answer it straightforwardly, without questioning their motives, ridiculing the question itself, or offering something you consider to be sage advice but which is completely irrelevant to the newbie’s question.

If any moderator/admin is reading this, I’d be forever grateful if you just deleted the whole thread, so maybe down the road I can start a new one (perhaps asking just one question at a time). This obviously isn’t working out the way it was intended.

K, here's more shell shocked ramblings, precisely written in an autobiographical format, with questions you are likely to ask each step of the way.

Myself, age 21
"How much does working as a liver transplant surgeon at Stanford or UCSF pay"
Amount of transplant surgeon at stanford plus UCSF: less than 5
Possibilities of achiving this goal: less than 5 percent

Age 23
"How to get into a med school in California?"
Chance of getting to a california med school: 15 percent, chancing of getting into UCSF or Stanford: less than 20% as I already did not have a 3.9 to go with my 97 percentile MCAT. My GPA was less than 3.7.

Age 26
"Maybe I can go back for fellowship"
Chance of getting into a California residency: nil. Had a Harvard interview but "too many applicants applied here, cant interview you" from Santa Clara Valley Medical Center. You read that right. SCMC is more competitive than one of the Harvard program because again, everything happened in a chain and surprising amount of people want to return to California.

Age 30: "I'll come back, I promise".
Coming back to the midwest, of course. I have met my wife, who is also Californian. You see, I wanted to come back HOME so badly, that I basically only would date someone who didn't grow up in the midwest. But life throw you in pesky directions, like the fact that your SO maybe stuck in the midwest like you for another 6 years due to say...neurosurgery. So despite how badly you wanted to go HOME, you are now finalizing your rank list, putting all the California programs on the bottom.

That is, assuming you did what I did. If you did what most of coresident did and settle down with a local, you will NEVER leave.

Age 37: ?? Not sure, maybe tag along with her to come back to Cali and hope to ride the neurosurgery thing since it's gonna be a bit hard coming back to Cali after practing in the BFE for a few years while waiting for her to finish.

The real answer to your question

The only way you can guarantee the meaningfulness of the questions you asked, is to ensure that you get into UCSD for med school, and never, never, never fall off the chain. Stay a lifer in that institution. How to do that / how to get into UCSD is outside of scope of this answer.

 

[mmmcdowe]

you cannot have wisdom without knowledge. closing thread.