Non Traditional Pre Med Student-Master's, Special Master's or Post Bacc?

[blondee_12]

Hello Everyone!

I have seen that this is a continued topic of debate, and I am going to go ahead and throw myself to the wolves so to speak! (Just kidding! The information that I could get from this-pros and cons-will be incredibly helpful for me to make this decision).

This is the age old question- post bacc, master's degree, or special master's program?

The Master's Degree is free for me because I am an employee at my University, whereas I would have to move and pay a lot of money for the SMP or Post Bacc, so I want to see if it's worth it to get a free Master's, or pay the money for the other two options.

So, I want to give a little background about myself:

Cumulative GPA: 3.1
Science GPA: 2.9
MCAT: 500 first time, preparing for second time (taking prep courses this time and using more than 3 months to study)
Degree: BS Biology
(Yikes! I know! It makes me cringe too!)
Planning to apply to both allopathic and osteopathic schools

My decision to pursue medical school was not the moment I started my undergraduate degree, but the summer before my last year. I was diagnosed with multiple pulmonary emboli and a pulmonary infarction and spent some time in the hospital or at doctors' appointments during this time, which impacted my grades (which weren't great to begin with, as I was part of the "C's get degrees!" club before this decsion, Big Big Mistake on my part). This is where I decided I wanted to become a doctor, but the problem is this last year consisted of probably a third of the pre-requisites medical schools require (such as organic chemistry and lab, biochemistry, general chemistry, etc) and recovering plus the courses was not easy. My health slowly improved, I graduated, and started working as a Patient Care Associate (or Patience Care Technician) at my University's Hospital. I went through one round of applications for 10 allopathic medical schools for feedback, and not surprisingly was rejected from all 10 schools.

A little later, I was fortunate enough to be presented the opportunity with a career as a Clinical Research Assistant with my University's Abdominal Transplant Department, and have since then worked in this position after clocking 10 months of direct patient care experience as a PCA. (I also have shadowing and volunteering experiences).

So here is my dilemma:

My University allows full time employees to pursue courses part time for free-undergraduate and graduate level courses. Working night shift as a PCA, I attempted to retake an organic chemistry course (C+'s the first time for the lectures, B's for the labs) and unfortunately ended up with the exact same grade (ouch, really not good).

My new job is much more flexible with schooling, as they like to see students who want to go into medicine/nursing/pharmacy/dentistry/etc work full time and gain the education and experience they need. So I want to pursue an MS in Clinical Pharmacology in order to make myself look more competitive for both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools (this master's also can help me advance with my current position).

But is this a good idea? Will it even help?

I know there are SMPs and Post-Bacc programs that will directly increase my chances of getting into medical school-but the biggest issue here is COST-my University sadly does not offer these programs, and I prefer to do this for free. Another issue is that the other programs will not help me advance in this career if I still cannot get into medical school, whereas this program helps people in my current position receive promotions.

Here is some information on the MS in Clinical Pharmacology:

-It is online, and 6 credit hours a semester (full time is 9 credit hours a semester), all three semesters, for 2 years (I worry a bit that it is an online program, but it is the only way it is offered).

-It consists of these courses- Responsible Conduct of Research, Fundamentals of Medical Product Development and Regulation, Research Design and Methods for Clinical Research, Management of Clinical Studies, Design and Analysis of Studies in Health Sciences, General Pharmacology, Organ System Toxicology, Applied Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics, Research Applications in Clinical Pharmacology, Introduction to Pathophysiology, Introduction to Personalized Therapeutics and Pharmacogenomics and a last semester Capstone project.

I have already taken a few of the courses that do not require admission into the program, so I will start with a 4.0.

I would love to hear both pros and cons, suggestions, and if you have any another ideas, let's hear them! And if there are any questions or more clarification is needed, please don't hesitate to let me know!

I am sorry for such a long post! Thank you all!

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[gyngyn]

Is this a Master's designed for those who plan to apply to medical school?
Does this program have a history of placing its grads into medical school?
If so, will they tell you where they have been accepted?

 

[curbsideconsult]

The MS in clinical pharmacology will not help you overcome your sGPA, especially considering the classes it consists of. An SMP is the only master's program med schools will consider regarding sGPA.

Why do you think you got the same low grades when you retook orgo and bio? Was it a lack of understanding the material? Was it the style of questions you weren't used to? Regardless, just by sheer repetition alone, you should have at least gone from a C+ to a B-. Do you think maybe working nights full time and taking two science courses with labs was too much?

I think your safest bet would be to take the free classes your work is offering and don't overextend yourself. Or quit your job and do an SMP full time.

You should also be volunteering right now to build up hours.

 

[blondee_12]

Is this a Master's designed for those who plan to apply to medical school?
Does this program have a history of placing its grads into medical school?

Sadly no.

 

[gyngyn]

Sadly no.

Then, a post-bac is a better alternative. A sustained period of academic excellence will improve your gpa (slightly) and provide a strong trend.

 

[blondee_12]

The MS in clinical pharmacology will not help you overcome your sGPA, especially considering the classes it consists of. An SMP is the only master's program med schools will consider regarding sGPA.

Why do you think you got the same low grades when you retook orgo and bio? Was it a lack of understanding the material? Was it the style of questions you weren't used to? Regardless, just by sheer repetition alone, you should have at least gone from a C+ to a B-. Do you think maybe working nights full time and taking two science courses with labs was too much?

I think your safest bet would be to take the free classes your work is offering and don't overextend yourself. Or quit your job and do an SMP full time.

You should also be volunteering right now to build up hours.

The reason I didn't perform well was because I would have to miss class (early morning class right after work, that was my fault) in order to stay at work, and as a twist of fate I ended up with shingles. My job and patients came first (as it should) and if my patients were not doing well, I'd stay with them even at the expense of missing class.

Thank you for responding to my thread! Really I do appreciate it!

 

[blondee_12]

Then, a post-bac is a better alternative. A sustained period of academic excellence will improve your gpa (slightly) and provide a strong trend.

Thank you so much for your advice!!!

 

[rdyotz]

"My University allows full time employees to pursue courses part time for free-undergraduate and graduate level courses."

If you can take free undergrad courses, then you can do a DIY post-bac, no need to go to a formal one. In fact, many of the formal ones are for career changers that have not taken many science courses, or the MCAT. I would not start studying/spending money on the MCAT yet, as you will likely need to take quite a few courses to bump up your sGPA to competitive levels. If you take the MCAT soon, it could expire / be close to expiring by the time you could apply. It will probably take 2 years of DIY postbac if you are working full-time and only able to take 1-2 classes per semester, although it depends on how many science credits you currently have.

 

[blondee_12]

"My University allows full time employees to pursue courses part time for free-undergraduate and graduate level courses."

If you can take free undergrad courses, then you can do a DIY post-bac, no need to go to a formal one. In fact, many of the formal ones are for career changers that have not taken many science courses, or the MCAT. I would not start studying/spending money on the MCAT yet, as you will likely need to take quite a few courses to bump up your sGPA to competitive levels. If you take the MCAT soon, it could expire / be close to expiring by the time you could apply. It will probably take 2 years of DIY postbac if you are working full-time and only able to take 1-2 classes per semester, although it depends on how many science credits you currently have.

I want to ask a follow up question-at that point could getting a second bachelor's degree, in maybe something like Microbiology (I always loved Micro, and I'm very confident in my micro abilities) be sufficient? Or would it be better to compose a DIY post bac? Doing the bachelor's in micro would take me 4 semesters of 6 credit hours, and it would give me a second degree along with taking all science courses.
Another follow up question-would medical schools feel that I didn't challenge myself enough doing part time courses while working full time? I know that a lot of medical schools want to see someone excel in a rigorous science-based track, and that post-bacs are primarily full time.

And thank you so much for this feedback! I really appreciate it!

 

[Ad2b]

could getting a second bachelor's degree

Unless you're using that + PhD as backup plan for not getting into med school, it won't help.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Agreed with Ad2b.

Adcoms can are pretty adept at figuring out why someone took less than a full courseload. It's easy enough to match up dates and timelines. If they see you're working full-time, then two courses at a time are plenty. It's up to you whether or not you want to go full-time with school and quit your job. Based on your previous history, it might work out better for you grade-wise. Or maybe work part-time and take two science classes and an easier, but still looks good on a transcript, class?

 

[blondee_12]

Unless you're using that + PhD as backup plan for not getting into med school, it won't help.

Agreed with Ad2b.

Adcoms can are pretty adept at figuring out why someone took less than a full courseload. It's easy enough to match up dates and timelines. If they see you're working full-time, then two courses at a time are plenty. It's up to you whether or not you want to go full-time with school and quit your job. Based on your previous history, it might work out better for you grade-wise. Or maybe work part-time and take two science classes and an easier, but still looks good on a transcript, class?

I think you both have incredibly valid points.

Thankfully I already hold a wonderful position that has many different advancement opportunities with my current degree. If all else fails, it fails and at that point I lose time, but still gain knowledge and experience toward my current career.

I think, if I could rephrase my question, would getting a second bachelor's degree in say Microbiology be sufficient in lieu of a post bac IF I performed well? Of course, as curbsideconsult pointed out, my recent history would require a lot of thought into this (it is a huge risk!), and I'm not going to be that person saying "I WOULD PULL ALL A'S!" because that isn't necessarily realistic, I'd have to take it semester by semester, as I would for all of the other options. I am more of asking to see if that is just another possibility that I could put on the table so-to-speak.

 

[curbsideconsult]

I think you both have incredibly valid points.

Thankfully I already hold a wonderful position that has many different advancement opportunities with my current degree. If all else fails, it fails and at that point I lose time, but still gain knowledge and experience toward my current career.

I think, if I could rephrase my question, would getting a second bachelor's degree in say Microbiology be sufficient in lieu of a post bac IF I performed well? Of course, as curbsideconsult pointed out, my recent history would require a lot of thought into this (it is a huge risk!), and I'm not going to be that person saying "I WOULD PULL ALL A'S!" because that isn't necessarily realistic, I'd have to take it semester by semester, as I would for all of the other options. I am more of asking to see if that is just another possibility that I could put on the table so-to-speak.

Formal post-bacc/second bachelor's/DIY - it doesn't matter how you get the classes you need. If doing a second bachelor's will be easier for you in terms of getting the courses you want when you want them and other administrative stuff like that, then go for it. The bottom line is to get the prereqs you need. I would not suggest retaking the orgo classes. What's done is done so just move on and maybe try to take some upper level science classes to boost your sGPA.

 

[blondee_12]

Formal post-bacc/second bachelor's/DIY - it doesn't matter how you get the classes you need. If doing a second bachelor's will be easier for you in terms of getting the courses you want when you want them and other administrative stuff like that, then go for it. The bottom line is to get the prereqs you need. I would not suggest retaking the orgo classes. What's done is done so just move on and maybe try to take some upper level science classes to boost your sGPA.

Curbsideconsult, thank you so much for all of your help and advice! I know I'm just bombarding you with questions, and I do apologize for that! I love to have a pretty full picture before making a decision, especially one that will have such an impact on my career and financial situation. I struggle with chemistry, I always have and it has been the downfall for my grades (with the exception of biochemistry, it didn't help that I went through my blood clots and pulmonary infarction while taking the ochem courses). I am with you there, that I need to leave those grades alone and prove that I have other strengths (especially when it comes to biology, math or physics courses).
Another question though: What would the difference be in regards to benefits of a special master's program and a post bac/DIY/second bachelor's? Due to my GPAs, would the SMP not help at all?

 

[curbsideconsult]

Curbsideconsult, thank you so much for all of your help and advice! I know I'm just bombarding you with questions, and I do apologize for that! I love to have a pretty full picture before making a decision, especially one that will have such an impact on my career and financial situation. I struggle with chemistry, I always have and it has been the downfall for my grades (with the exception of biochemistry, it didn't help that I went through my blood clots and pulmonary infarction while taking the ochem courses). I am with you there, that I need to leave those grades alone and prove that I have other strengths (especially when it comes to biology, math or physics courses).
Another question though: What would the difference be in regards to benefits of a special master's program and a post bac/DIY/second bachelor's? Due to my GPAs, would the SMP not help at all?

No need to apologize. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to help out. But I also see it as helping myself out because I'm kind of using this to hone my own skills. We're all going to be mentors some day so I'd like to get better at this advice-giving stuff and I think SDN is a good way to do it because people will call me out and correct me and disagree with me and this is a good way to learn. Anyway, enough about me.

I think the only benefits come from whether or not you're disciplined enough to go it alone and if you get into an SMP/post-bacc with good linkages. So if you think you can survive not having an income for at least a year and a half and want to take on the extra loans, you should consider a program with linkages. But those are really tough and even if there are linkages, there's no guarantee because you usually have to be like top 10-20% of the class to qualify.

 

[Nugester]

Since I am in a similar situation (working full-time, doing a free MS, DYI post+bacc while taking the MCAT): if you only had to do one I'd say DYI post-bacc. If you can do two, do both the MS and sprinkle in some post-bacc courses. Key is don't stretch yourself too thin and make sure to get As. Good luck!

 

[blondee_12]

No need to apologize. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to help out. But I also see it as helping myself out because I'm kind of using this to hone my own skills. We're all going to be mentors some day so I'd like to get better at this advice-giving stuff and I think SDN is a good way to do it because people will call me out and correct me and disagree with me and this is a good way to learn. Anyway, enough about me.

I think the only benefits come from whether or not you're disciplined enough to go it alone and if you get into an SMP/post-bacc with good linkages. So if you think you can survive not having an income for at least a year and a half and want to take on the extra loans, you should consider a program with linkages. But those are really tough and even if there are linkages, there's no guarantee because you usually have to be like top 10-20% of the class to qualify.

Oh what a great way to get some practice! You'll be an awesome mentor one day don't you worry!

Thank you so much for all of this wonderful advice! I appreciate it way more than you know!

 

[blondee_12]

Since I am in a similar situation (working full-time, doing a free MS, DYI post+bacc while taking the MCAT): if you only had to do one I'd say DYI post-bacc. If you can do two, do both the MS and sprinkle in some post-bacc courses. Key is don't stretch yourself too thin and make sure to get As. Good luck!

So would you suggest as the DIY post-bacc just getting the second bachelor's degree? If I did that, I would pursue another bachelor's in Microbiology and take all Micro courses, especially because my strengths lie with microbiology and I loved all of the micro topics throughout my biology degree.

I agree with not stretching myself too thin. I think that, especially due to limitations with how many credit hours I can take a semester, it would be better to either the MS or a post-bacc.

You are an amazing human being if you can manage all of that at once! I really hope you get in! If anyone is showing dedication it is you

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Nugester]

So would you suggest as the DIY post-bacc just getting the second bachelor's degree? If I did that, I would pursue another bachelor's in Microbiology and take all Micro courses, especially because my strengths lie with microbiology and I loved all of the micro topics throughout my biology degree.

I agree with not stretching myself too thin. I think that, especially due to limitations with how many credit hours I can take a semester, it would be better to either the MS or a post-bacc.

You are an amazing human being if you can manage all of that at once! I really hope you get in! If anyone is showing dedication it is you

Thank you so much for your advice!

I hope I get in too! Definitely tiring but possible. Once I got the MCAT out of the way, everything is currently a breeze . Anyway, as for the DYI post-bacc: not necessarily getting a second degree (formal) but taking classes that would get you ready for/related to medical school. Like pathology, physiology, hematology, biochemistry, anatomy etc.

 

[blondee_12]

I hope I get in too! Definitely tiring but possible. Once I got the MCAT out of the way, everything is currently a breeze . Anyway, as for the DYI post-bacc: not necessarily getting a second degree (formal) but taking classes that would get you ready for/related to medical school. Like pathology, physiology, hematology, biochemistry, anatomy etc.

I'm lucky that I already received wonderful grades in physiology, anatomy and biochem. My GPA is so low mainly due to gen chem and ochem. I retook a few of these before I wanted to go to medical school just hoping for a better grade, not necessarily for an A. The ochems were a different story due to the blood clots (I have no idea how I even passed them dealing with the hospitalizations and doctors appointments and how rough recovery is). After talking with my university's pre-med adviser, we both agreed that I should just take the grades I received in these courses and focus on more biological science courses.

Hematology would be an awesome course! Especially with my past, I'm fascinated by hematology.

The micro curriculum here actually requires a pathology course, I don't think any other departments offer it, so that's a plus.

What other courses are you taking to increase your science GPA? These are good ideas.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Oh what a great way to get some practice! You'll be an awesome mentor one day don't you worry!

Thank you so much for all of this wonderful advice! I appreciate it way more than you know!

Awww you're making me blush

 

[Nugester]

I'm lucky that I already received wonderful grades in physiology, anatomy and biochem. My GPA is so low mainly due to gen chem and ochem. I retook a few of these before I wanted to go to medical school just hoping for a better grade, not necessarily for an A. The ochems were a different story due to the blood clots (I have no idea how I even passed them dealing with the hospitalizations and doctors appointments and how rough recovery is). After talking with my university's pre-med adviser, we both agreed that I should just take the grades I received in these courses and focus on more biological science courses.

Hematology would be an awesome course! Especially with my past, I'm fascinated by hematology.

The micro curriculum here actually requires a pathology course, I don't think any other departments offer it, so that's a plus.

What other courses are you taking to increase your science GPA? These are good ideas.

Based off Goro's guide to reinvention. Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[Magus5454]

Just going to add on that no matter what you take , get those As. Bs won't help your GPA since you are trying to raise it above 3.0. Pick classes that interest you .