Nursing School Vs Med School, no comparison.

[Dranger]

I'm am--was rather--an EMT-B. I'm also avid collector of other's experience. An amateur student of labor history. And consider mysef, given my various vantage points, an impeccable marksman for characterizing the political agenda of your profession. I'm also exquisitely well-informed on the tactics of the CNA, having friends involved on both sides of it's masterful political gamesmanship.

It doesn't make me mad that you call me a transporter. How do you think I got around my hospital talking curiously to everyone. It's just that your conclusions are more representative of Zombie groupthink than anything else.

By calling you a transporter I would also be calling myself one. There is nothing wrong with being an EMT-B but the true workhorse of EMS is the paramedic or rare pre-hospital RN (flight/rig variety). Zombie groupthink? Lol not really just observations gained through working and learning.

I get your indignant feelings regarding NP, but there is certainly much misplaced anger displaced towards staff RNs where it shouldn't be. Do you feel the same about CRNAs as well?

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[Siggy]

Well when I have done both I can make that claim right? Besides even when there wasn't a huge push for NP autonomy this forum ( this doesn't happen in real life mind you only on SDN) made a statement in ****ting on nurses for the most trivial of matters. So I find you your disgust regarding me taking a dump on another career path pretty laughable especially when I said a post later that I have been in the field. EMTs-Bs are essentially transporters, does that make you mad?

Would it make you mad if I said that plenty of nurses are basically drug pushing computer workers? After all, the amount of times I've seen calls for relatively innocent labs (the proverbial K of 3.4), vital signs put in without thought (4am SpO2 of 86% without notifying anyone or starting oxygen, or even rechecking and putting in a correct reading if it was wrong), or copying the admission nursing assessment, even though the CHF exacerbation patient hasn't had rales for 3 days and it's still being documented. Because I've seen those actions which indicates that the nurse put no thought into his job in spades, and the hospital I did the vast majority of my rotations at generally has great nurses.

Context, it matters.

 

[Nasrudin]

By calling you a transporter I would also be calling myself one. There is nothing wrong with being an EMT-B but the true workhorse of EMS is the paramedic or rare pre-hospital RN (flight/rig variety). Zombie groupthink? Lol not really just observations gained through working and learning.

I get your indignant feelings regarding NP, but there is certainly much misplaced anger displaced towards staff RNs where it shouldn't be. Do you feel the same about CRNAs as well?

The political base for both is the same. It should be obvious that being one is necessary to be the other. I love studying the CNA because it is a master class in deception and PR that protects a purely Machiavellian use of power. These may seem like separate ventures on the inside. I get that RN's aren't bound by some covenant to support NP's. But I've seen gross managerial misconduct stemming purely from nurses bling allegiance to each other in a tribal manner. It's real.

Nursing aministrators and union negotiators are confederates of the NP movement. And the broad scope of the nursing mythos depicting infallible patient advocacy against the evils of corporate medicine and it's physicians is what holds together not only the rank and file but the entire deceptive public message. The same message that empowers the NP movement to its opponents utter confusion.

 

[Dranger]

Would it make you mad if I said that plenty of nurses are basically drug pushing computer workers? After all, the amount of times I've seen calls for relatively innocent labs (the proverbial K of 3.4), vital signs put in without thought (4am SpO2 of 86% without notifying anyone or starting oxygen, or even rechecking and putting in a correct reading if it was wrong), or copying the admission nursing assessment, even though the CHF exacerbation patient hasn't had rales for 3 days and it's still being documented. Because I've seen those actions which indicates that the nurse put no thought into his job in spades, and the hospital I did the vast majority of my rotations at generally has great nurses.

Context, it matters.

I wouldn't mind nor care if someone just called me a drug pusher because we do push a lot of drugs. Seeing how in critical care RNs order and replace lytes per protocol I would never call about a K for 3.4 but I did have a hard time getting a doc to call back after I asked for Kayexalate or albuterol, when I had a patient getting close to 7. The copy and paste **** for charting is annoying and I make it a point to not copy and past unless I have had the patient a day before and nothing has changed. I noted rhonchi and exp wheezes one day and after a solumedrol taper the patient went back to being diminished from past atelectasis but my coworkers were still copying my earlier assessment. It's frustrating but somewhat understandable with large patient loads you are getting pulled away every 5 seconds to do something else. Luckily in the ICU we only have 1-2 (albeit heavy care) whereas the medical floor has 5-7 patients.

 

[Dranger]

The political base for both is the same. It should be obvious that being one is necessary to be the other. I love studying the CNA because it is a master class in deception and PR that protects a purely Machiavellian use of power. These may seem like separate ventures on the inside. I get that RN's aren't bound by some covenant to support NP's. But I've seen gross managerial misconduct stemming purely from nurses bling allegiance to each other in a tribal manner. It's real.

Nursing aministrators and union negotiators are confederates of the NP movement. And the broad scope of the nursing mythos depicting infallible patient advocacy against the evils of corporate medicine and it's physicians is what holds together not only the rank and file but the entire deceptive public message. The same message that empowers the NP movement to its opponents utter confusion.

The only way you guys are going to formulate any defense against NP encroachment is to produce studies or meta analysis that show NP outcomes are detrimental to patient care when compared to physicians, anything other than that is simple quibbling on a message board. I am not saying that to chastise you or anything but that is the simple truth especially with Obamacare progressing.

 

[mvenus929]

Poor analogy. Med school admissions is still a $2500 iPad as evidenced by the increasing competition.

Also, this may not be a widespread thing but I know of at least 3 schools who are currently working towards a 1.5yr pre-clinical curriculum. There is also a big LCME change in the works, though I'm not too keen on the details.

There are plenty of schools with a 1.5 year pre-clerkship curriculum. Mine is one of them. But we still take 4 years to get through the whole of med school, because applying for residency takes almost a full academic year, and most people don't know what they want to go into until (near) the end of third year.

There are a handful of schools doing a 3 year degree, but they generally require you to go into a primary care field, which doesn't do the other specialties much good.

 

[Nasrudin]

The only way you guys are going to formulate any defense against NP encroachment is to produce studies or meta analysis that show NP outcomes are detrimental to patient care when compared to physicians, anything other than that is simple quibbling on a message board. I am not saying that to chastise you or anything but that is the simple truth especially with Obamacare progressing.

Here's why that wont happen. It's impossible to study NP's independently. They aren't produced independently. They're grafted on to our corpus feeding off our roots. No NP graduates as a prepared clinician. They learn how to do the job on the job. Most often while being trained by our attendings.

That's why justice is my argument. I'm Rhonda Rousey and like her arm bar not one argument has ever escaped alive when I use it. I tapped the tiger walker with it in seconds.

Failing diplomacy or as adjunct to it. I'm also arguing for bringing no less a devious game than is being brought against us. Which why I focus on their corpus with aggressive body shots.

 

[OCDEMS]

That's interesting and new one on me. I didn't know EMS systems were utilizing paramedics in the community like that. That's how you learn about health care roles. By working in it and talking to people. Something an associates degree at a CC doesn't make you better or worse at.

Yep, if they did try to take nursing jobs, then just like any potential adversary of nursing laterally or from below they would be crushed. And yet nobody seems to attribute the same negative descriptors to them when they do it. For them it's always about patient safety and advocacy somehow.

They're like PR puppies, they can **** everywhere, and still be adored.

Speaking of paramedics, I've long thought that one of the big marketing advantages that RNs have regarding talent is the step-wise fashion of advancement that they've developed. Think about it: once you're an RN, you can essentially work your way slowly toward being an NP. That is not the case in the medical model, where every level requires a separate application and has its own competitive process.

One of the big ways to put a dent in nursing's appeal would be for the medical profession (physicians) to perform more outreach to their brothers and sisters lower down the chain (physician assistants and paramedics). Creating more physician assistant to physician bridges (MCAT + accelerated pathway) and priority admissions for paramedics around the country (2-3 priority spots per entering class of 150-180 at select medical schools) would give people some hope that there is a way to climb the ladder without all of the uncertainty that currently comes with the process. From my experience, nurses don't have this uncertainty. A reasonably bright ASN nurse can be relatively certain that, if he/she applies herself and is willing to fork over the tuition, he/she can gain admission to a BSN or MSN program. One step further and they have their DNP.

Medical school isn't like this. Anyone with a previous career is always taking a big risk when they "go back to school" to be a doctor. The admissions process is incredibly competitive and there are no guarantees, although a smart and well informed applicant has a fairly reasonable chance.

 

[popopopop]

^But then you're taking mid levels away. For good reason, they are mid levels because it's convenient to the circumstances in their lives and they probably don't want all that schooling and responsibilities. For others, there's no substitute for a medical school education. I do agree it's way too easy to get into an MSN program and pass the NP certification.

 

[dyspareunia]

Speaking of paramedics, I've long thought that one of the big marketing advantages that RNs have regarding talent is the step-wise fashion of advancement that they've developed. Think about it: once you're an RN, you can essentially work your way slowly toward being an NP. That is not the case in the medical model, where every level requires a separate application and has its own competitive process.

One of the big ways to put a dent in nursing's appeal would be for the medical profession (physicians) to perform more outreach to their brothers and sisters lower down the chain (physician assistants and paramedics). Creating more physician assistant to physician bridges (MCAT + accelerated pathway) and priority admissions for paramedics around the country (2-3 priority spots per entering class of 150-180 at select medical schools) would give people some hope that there is a way to climb the ladder without all of the uncertainty that currently comes with the process. From my experience, nurses don't have this uncertainty. A reasonably bright ASN nurse can be relatively certain that, if he/she applies herself and is willing to fork over the tuition, he/she can gain admission to a BSN or MSN program. One step further and they have their DNP.

Medical school isn't like this. Anyone with a previous career is always taking a big risk when they "go back to school" to be a doctor. The admissions process is incredibly competitive and there are no guarantees, although a smart and well informed applicant has a fairly reasonable chance.

Speaking as someone who did a career change, I would rather take the risk applying than spend 2 years becoming a paramedic just go have "priority" admission for 2-3 spots at a few medical schools. That's just a huge waste of time and effort to get a minor leg-up in the application process.

 

[mvenus929]

Speaking as someone who did a career change, I would rather take the risk applying than spend 2 years becoming a paramedic just go have "priority" admission for 2-3 spots at a few medical schools. That's just a huge waste of time and effort to get a minor leg-up in the application process.

But there are people who become paramedics and then later decide to become physicians. Such a system would give them a leg up and reward them for their past experiences.

 

[evilbooyaa]

The only way you guys are going to formulate any defense against NP encroachment is to produce studies or meta analysis that show NP outcomes are detrimental to patient care when compared to physicians, anything other than that is simple quibbling on a message board. I am not saying that to chastise you or anything but that is the simple truth especially with Obamacare progressing.

Those studies (produced by Nursing associations) are all flawed, because if there was a patient that the NP didn't know what to do with, the patient was transferred to the physician's group and counted in the physician's stats.

The thing is, getting an IRB to green-light a study that doesn't have MD oversight of NPs would likely be impossible considering how often NPs refer out to the MD in the same field (even in the studies that show 'equivalent outcomes').

Unfortunately, it seems like the only that can happen is that NPs have to get independent practice rights, and either patients start dying more or they don't. But don't spew any BS about producing studies that "show NP outcomes are detrimental to patient care". If you've read the studies that show equivalence, you'll see they are deeply flawed and are only cited by those who cannot properly analyze a study.

 

[OCDEMS]

But there are people who become paramedics and then later decide to become physicians. Such a system would give them a leg up and reward them for their past experiences.

The reality is that there are a surprising number of paramedics who go back to medical school after a successful career in EMS. At my school there are a few. I worked with plenty of medics who would have made excellent physicians, but there just isn't a good system to get them back to school. Like nursing, most program's prerequisite courses tend to not meet the requirements for medical school admissions. The sacrifices required to leave a job, lifestyle, and go to a postbac program are pretty daunting. This isn't unique to paramedics, but it's a shame that such a leap of faith is required of people with such a meaningful exposure to autonomous medical practice. I've heard people argue here before that previous clinical experience is of limited utility, but I think that's short sighted. Sure, being a previous nurse, paramedic, or PA isn't going to make memorizing bulk facts easier, but it has plenty of other tangible benefits. Answering a clinical vignette is much easier when you've done it before. Anatomy is appreciably easier when you have previous exposure to it. There are other advantages. In my experience, all of the clinicians at my school seem to do well.

I'm not saying that the admissions process should be easier, but perhaps a bit more outreach is in order?

 

[popopopop]

^That's why there is a whole non-traditional students sub-forum. I'm a nurse right now, and my search through sdn has taught me to include a convincing argument as to why I'm "abandoning" nursing. It's almost a double-edged sword jumping ship so you better explain it well.

 

[PostMatchMachine]

^That's why there is a whole non-traditional students sub-forum. I'm a nurse right now, and my search through sdn has taught me to include a convincing argument as to why I'm "abandoning" nursing. It's almost a double-edged sword jumping ship so you better explain it well.

Shut up, nurse.

 

[popopopop]

^The future of medicine folks.

 

[allojay]

Would it make you mad if I said that plenty of nurses are basically drug pushing computer workers? After all, the amount of times I've seen calls for relatively innocent labs (the proverbial K of 3.4), vital signs put in without thought (4am SpO2 of 86% without notifying anyone or starting oxygen, or even rechecking and putting in a correct reading if it was wrong), or copying the admission nursing assessment, even though the CHF exacerbation patient hasn't had rales for 3 days and it's still being documented. Because I've seen those actions which indicates that the nurse put no thought into his job in spades, and the hospital I did the vast majority of my rotations at generally has great nurses.

Context, it matters.

To answer your question..Yes!

I'm not sure which hospital you work at but 99% of the nurses that i know/ work with would absolutely NEVER CALL a doc for a K that was a 3.4, or an O2 Sat of 86% at 4am. Why? bc that's simply idiotic. For a nurse to do those things, signifies that the nurses you work with are not educated enough. Unless the nurse is a complete buffoon, a pulse ox of 86% is ALWAYS addressed, whether it be administering supplemental O2 or alleviating/ figuring out the cause. Where i work at, the nurses make an attempt to critically think before involving the doc. You claim that the vast majority of the nurses from your rotations are great, but the example you listed previously shows otherwise.

I agree that nurses are drug pushing computer workers. Of course! But you can't say that you yourself, or other docs haven't had charting errors. I remember a scenario where a patient came in with aspiration PNA and had an overt presentation of coarse crackles yet the progress note says clear lung sound bilaterally. Does that mean the doc is incompetent? No. It just shows that Nurses and Docs are ultimately computer workers. With a heavy patient load, the daily stress, and so on; charting mistakes will happen. My point is that docs and nurses make mistakes, yet i agree that a doc's mistakes has a bigger consequence than a nurse's mistake.

 

[Wordead]

^The future of medicine folks.

Have you met the internet yet

 

[popopopop]

^Quit derailing the thread. I'm here to read the discussion and put a perspective in when I can. If we have stricter moderators, pointless comments like that would be deleted. Let's move on.

 

[evilbooyaa]

^Quit derailing the thread. I'm here to read the discussion and put a perspective in when I can. If we have stricter moderators, pointless comments like that would be deleted. Let's move on.

Srs? You make a post to stereotype all of the 'future of medicine' based off one inane comment (by a brand new account [who is a troll] on an anonymous internet forum) and don't expect a snarky response?

This must truly be your first day on the internet. Welcome.

 

[Psai]

^The future of medicine folks.

I find it interesting that the post you replied to was made immediately after yours...

 

[popopopop]

Srs? You make a post to stereotype all of the 'future of medicine' based off one inane comment (by a brand new account [who is a troll] on an anonymous internet forum) and don't expect a snarky response?

This must truly be your first day on the internet. Welcome.

So I can't defend myself? I guess I should ignore your comment to not be a hippocrate. I took offense when he said nurse, because we ALL know the connotation of that due of the thread topic. This whole thread has been mostly about bashing nursing in general. Cut that @#% out about stereotyping. I'm trying to add to the discussion with what little knowledge I have. I have people I agree with and don't agree with in this thread, but it is beneficial to all of us when their stance is clear and logical. Either add something to the discussion or leave, honestly.

 

[Fox800]

Happy certified nurses day.

 

[GadRads]

Reading this lengthy discussion, and knowing my med school class, I'm afraid there isn't much fight in the lot of us to defend our territory. We have too many touchy-feely, PC loving folks in our midst. The same goes for how we respond to healthcare legislation. It seems that anything the oval office dishes out, we grab with open arms and endorse. Because it wouldn't be PC to reject it.

Medical schools emphasize conformity. If you don't conform, they claim you are "unprofessional". Moreover PC nonsense is rife in higher education these days. Don't be too surprised.

 

[MalibuPreMD]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

 

[allojay]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

As much as I've been on the opposition of a certain few on this whole thread, I completely agree that the above link is absolutely ridiculous and quite infuriating. It's very disappointing to see such ignorance from this NP, as she makes it seem that all NP's think that way.

 

[Zenman1]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

Actually you let them drive you crazy. I'd be interested in exactly what drives you nuts about this website.

 

[dyspareunia]

But there are people who become paramedics and then later decide to become physicians. Such a system would give them a leg up and reward them for their past experiences.

So paramedics should be rewarded in the application process? What about PTs, OTs, nurses, etc? All the other mid-levels would be deserving of special treatment if paramedics are.

 

[Gither]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

Her Bio even mentions how she was offered faculty position at uc Davis school of medicine but she declined. In my cv Im going to list every Med school I got an acceptance offer from four years ago and say I declined them cause that's how awesome I am.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

As much as I've been on the opposition of a certain few on this whole thread, I completely agree that the above link is absolutely ridiculous and quite infuriating. It's very disappointing to see such ignorance from this NP, as she makes it seem that all NP's think that way.

As much as I hate to say it, she is NOT in the minority. I have heard many NPs voiced the same nonsense.

 

[cbrons]

NPs and their pseudoscience-based practices are going to be a major problem in the future. NPs like this ( http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html ) drive me absolutely crazy. I was thinking about a career in primary care when I started med school, but competing against such nonsense is not how I envision spending my life.

Big deal, just another ugly hag who didnt have the intellectual horsepower, work ethic, or talent to learn real medicine so she reverted to what all uneducated hacks with self-esteem issues do - homeopathy. My friends you may think scum like this get away with being substandard while receiving an equal amount of respect and admiration from the average ***** but the truth is that most people know the difference. You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[mvenus929]

So paramedics should be rewarded in the application process? What about PTs, OTs, nurses, etc? All the other mid-levels would be deserving of special treatment if paramedics are.

PT and OT have to get at least a masters degree, so I think they should get some benefit as well. Same with PAs. Nurses get a little iffy for reasons mentioned in this thread, the most important of which is the difference in mindset between nursing and medicine. But I have no problem giving other providers with advanced degrees a similar leg up in the process.

 

[DermViser]

I think this would be inflammatory if it were posted in a nursing forum, but I think most med students and physicians have the opinion that our training is more thorough than nurses'.

America is really becoming the country of "equality" where NP's, PA's, and Mid level anesthesia provides, are EQAUL. What ever happened to going to school, working hard and getting ahead. If you want the breadth of knowledge physicians have, and want equal pay, go to school for 8-10 years "some have post bachs, PhD's, Masters," go to residency "minimum 3-7 years" for slave wages, then pass a bunch of board exams, then you can be equal. Everyone wants the easy ride, "it's not fair."

Yeah there seems to be a lot of indoctrination with nurses in a lot of aspects:

 

[DermViser]

Would it make you mad if I said that plenty of nurses are basically drug pushing computer workers? After all, the amount of times I've seen calls for relatively innocent labs (the proverbial K of 3.4), vital signs put in without thought (4am SpO2 of 86% without notifying anyone or starting oxygen, or even rechecking and putting in a correct reading if it was wrong), or copying the admission nursing assessment, even though the CHF exacerbation patient hasn't had rales for 3 days and it's still being documented. Because I've seen those actions which indicates that the nurse put no thought into his job in spades, and the hospital I did the vast majority of my rotations at generally has great nurses.

Context, it matters.

It's easy to be a bad nurse, when you can pretty much blame the resident for your lack of responsibility.

 

[Fox800]

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things...has raging insecurity.

 

[touchpause13]

Hahahahahah. That's like the academia version of driving a monster truck

 

[DocVapor]

Hahahahahah. That's like the academia version of driving a monster truck

You mean like this one?

 

[touchpause13]

I was thinking like that but with truck nuts on the back lol

 

[kendrick lamar]

coming to this thread makes me a bit sad to be in the healthcare field. Although I admit I don't know about the intricate details of the MD/NP problem, I'm a diabetic and go to a clinic where I'm seen every 3 months by the MD and another 3 months by the NP. The MDs respect the role of the nurses and encourage me to utilize their help, esp when I have something specific to address via e-mail or phone call within those 3 months. The nurses also the ones who are designated to train on the continuous glucose monitor and help set up with the insulin pump. The MDs are very specific about other complications related to lab work, diagnosing other issues (thyroid, vitamin D deficiencies), etc. The setup is excellent and most people I know who go to the clinic are satisfied. When I'm in the real world, I see most doctors and nurses pretty happy with each other's role and resource in the care setting. I've considered both NP and MD professions, but I ended up graduating with a pharmacy degree. It's only been in pharmacy school and all these forums, SDN, Allnurses, where there I see the lack of interprofessional unity

 

[Mad Jack]

^Quit derailing the thread. I'm here to read the discussion and put a perspective in when I can. If we have stricter moderators, pointless comments like that would be deleted. Let's move on.

If we had stricter moderation, SDN wouldn't be a comedy gold mine.

 

[Psai]

Cool story kendrick

 

[Mad Jack]

http://www.autismnti.com/thenpdifference.html

I think I developed autism just by reading that.

 

[Fox800]

I think I developed autism just by reading that.

You must have been vaccinated recently.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

coming to this thread makes me a bit sad to be in the healthcare field. Although I admit I don't know about the intricate details of the MD/NP problem, I'm a diabetic and go to a clinic where I'm seen every 3 months by the MD and another 3 months by the NP. The MDs respect the role of the nurses and encourage me to utilize their help, esp when I have something specific to address via e-mail or phone call within those 3 months. The nurses also the ones who are designated to train on the continuous glucose monitor and help set up with the insulin pump. The MDs are very specific about other complications related to lab work, diagnosing other issues (thyroid, vitamin D deficiencies), etc. The setup is excellent and most people I know who go to the clinic are satisfied. When I'm in the real world, I see most doctors and nurses pretty happy with each other's role and resource in the care setting. I've considered both NP and MD professions, but I ended up graduating with a pharmacy degree. It's only been in pharmacy school and all these forums, SDN, Allnurses, where there I see the lack of interprofessional unity

I would think most physicians or medical students have no issues with the role that NPs play in our healthcare system, but they seem to want to do more everyday and they claim their outcomes are on par with physicians'. They even want to have the privilege to do some 'minor' surgeries.(allnurses.com)

 

[Fox800]

I would think most physicians or medical students have no issues with the role that NPs play in our healthcare system, but they seem to want to do more everyday and they claim their outcomes are on par with physicians'. They even want to have the privilege to do some 'minor' surgeries.(allnurses.com)

I'm concerned with the physicians and medical students that are too apathetic or greedy to care. They either don't give a crap, or are too busy raking it in by employing midlevels.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I'm concerned with the physicians and medical students that are too apathetic or greedy to care. They either don't give a crap, or are too busy raking it in by employing midlevels.

I am concerned about that as well, but when someone has a 250+k student loan that they have to pay back, they sometimes do **** for short term gain even if it might hurt their profession in the long run. I will hire PAs instead of NPs when (or if) I become a physician. I refuse to support one way or the other the ANA political agenda.

 

[Fox800]

 

[evilbooyaa]

It's only been in pharmacy school and all these forums, SDN, Allnurses, where there I see the lack of interprofessional unity

Whatever on the rest of your post. Regarding the bolded, the current attending MDs who currently hire and train NPs aren't complaining on this forum. The people who are angry are the attending physicians of the future, angry that the previous generation sacrificed the future of the profession to make a quick buck.

Of course these same people can't say anything out in the real world because until you become an attending, you have to toe the company line.

And of course the NPs that were initially trained by MDs (who are now training NP armies) want to make more money since they "do the same things" as physicians. They just have to convince Congress that they're either 1) more holistic or 2) cheaper but equal or 3) something else so they get their way. Let's be real though, at the end of the day they all want to be paid the same as a current BC/BE PCP.

 

[Fox800]

Of course these same people can't say anything out in the real world because until you become an attending, you have to toe the company line.

One of my favorite things about medical school. If you speak up against the norm, you're "unprofessional". Even if it's wrong.

 

[kendrick lamar]

I agree and that's obviously understandable. I shouldn't think a nurse should perform minor surgeries nor get paid as much as a physician, especially with the amount of schooling involved.
But I guess I'm just wondering what the consensus NPs should be limited to because as far as my experiences (as a patient), they have been valuable resources for teaching technical stuff (ie: how to use an insulin pump, CGM), dose adjustments and following up with questions once patients in primary care settings for issues doctors themselves admit they don't have the time to go over, but obviously not to the extent that it eliminates the obvious need of having a physician.

and yea, I don't expect people to have a forum in the real world such as this one lmao, but what I mean is that as far as being on rounds or in the clinic went, I usually always had physicians and interns have a reasonably good working relationship with the pharmacists and NPs and often spoke about the value of having them on the team.