Official 2017-2018 Help Me Rank Megathread [Internal Medicine]

[JustAnotherMedStudent2000]

I really need help and please try not to think this is ridiculous. Honest advice.

My desires: a solid clinical training without being worked to the bone and where starting a family in residency would be possible (I’m a woman, and a tad older), a good chance at a west coast pulm/crit fellowship some day, a place where people are collaborative and kind to one another, where research opportunities are abundant

It may seem that UCSF is the easiest number one, but starting a family with their workload and cost of living intimidates me quite a bit....

My top choices:

UCSF
OHSU
Colorado
UCSD

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[gutonc]

I really need help and please try not to think this is ridiculous. Honest advice.

My desires: a solid clinical training without being worked to the bone and where starting a family in residency would be possible (I’m a woman, and a tad older), a good chance at a west coast pulm/crit fellowship some day, a place where people are collaborative and kind to one another, where research opportunities are abundant

It may seem that UCSF is the easiest number one, but starting a family with their workload and cost of living intimidates me quite a bit....

My top choices:

UCSF
OHSU
Colorado
UCSD

To the bolded above...it should.

You could flip a coin or 3 among those programs and wind up with plenty of PCCM opportunities going forward.

But, unless you're willing to share your cardboard box on a sidewalk in the Mission with both a spouse and a child (and 2 or 3 other homeless people), UCSF is a tough sell from a lifestyle perspective. If your spouse/partner works at Google/Apple/Whatever.com, this will be less of an issue.

 

[JustAnotherMedStudent2000]

I really do appreciate your reply. I’m driving myself crazy with this decision. I’ve never been someone to be even a candidate at a “top anything” and applied to UCSF for “the hell of it” but I have some unique life experience, despite being far less qualified then their standard crew, so they interviewed me.

On the other side, I spend a month at OHSU (which I always had thought of as my reach program) and I absolutely loved everything about it. I guess I’m letting this whole “prestige” factor cloud my judgement, and the people at UCSF we’re nothing short of incredible. And the whole “will I regret it someday” issue

I may do the coin flip

To the bolded above...it should.

You could flip a coin or 3 among those programs and wind up with plenty of PCCM opportunities going forward.

But, unless you're willing to share your cardboard box on a sidewalk in the Mission with both a spouse and a child (and 2 or 3 other homeless people), UCSF is a tough sell from a lifestyle perspective. If your spouse/partner works at Google/Apple/Whatever, this will be less of an issue.

 

[wiloghby]

I spend a month at OHSU (which I always had thought of as my reach program) and I absolutely loved everything about it. I guess I’m letting this whole “prestige” factor cloud my judgement, and the people at UCSF we’re nothing short of incredible. And the whole “will I regret it someday” issue.

sounds like your number 1 is actually OHSU and you know it, but you are giving UCSF tons of respect because "it's a top program".

the prestige of the program is not going to be first on your mind for the next 3 years if you have to deal with financial and family stress for the duration of your residency to make attending the program feasible. As someone with a spouse and similar financial concerns, ALREADY living in a far too expensive city,the stress can be brutal.

Also keep in mind that if you are excited by the potential prestige perks going forward, that 99 percent of non physicians (patients, social circle) will think you went to a state school like UCSF for residency because you couldn't get into Stanford or Yale.

I say this as someone who chased prestige for undergrad and it was not the right place for me and it almost killed me. Just be honest with yourself and trust your gut and not your head.

 

[rokshana]

I really do appreciate your reply. I’m driving myself crazy with this decision. I’ve never been someone to be even a candidate at a “top anything” and applied to UCSF for “the hell of it” but I have some unique life experience, despite being far less qualified then their standard crew, so they interviewed me.

On the other side, I spend a month at OHSU (which I always had thought of as my reach program) and I absolutely loved everything about it. I guess I’m letting this whole “prestige” factor cloud my judgement, and the people at UCSF we’re nothing short of incredible. And the whole “will I regret it someday” issue

I may do the coin flip

ask yourself...when the envelope is opened and its says congratulations you have matched at...! what is your first reaction to it saying UCSF or OHSU?

the one that excites you is the the one that you put #1...because you will get what you need career wise at any of the places on your list.

and really 1, 2, and 3 are really the same thing in the end (my 1-3 flipped around even up to the last day the ROL was due...)

 

[dsk89]

Any help with my list would be appreciated. My priorities are solid training and chances for GI fellowship after residency.

1. Miami
2. GWU
3. UTMB
4. UCSF Fresno


Thank you!

 

[Gray Fox]

I really do appreciate your reply. I’m driving myself crazy with this decision. I’ve never been someone to be even a candidate at a “top anything” and applied to UCSF for “the hell of it” but I have some unique life experience, despite being far less qualified then their standard crew, so they interviewed me.

On the other side, I spend a month at OHSU (which I always had thought of as my reach program) and I absolutely loved everything about it. I guess I’m letting this whole “prestige” factor cloud my judgement, and the people at UCSF we’re nothing short of incredible. And the whole “will I regret it someday” issue

I may do the coin flip

I'm not going into IM, but I was interested in IM for a long time. You can get by living in SF--obviously you won't be living in a 2 bedroom in the Mission, but you can be comfortable across the bridge or in southern SF or make due in a 1 bedroom in SF proper.

I disagree with some posters here. Everyone in medicine (that matters), and most people on the West Coast, know UCSF is A BIG DEAL. It is super prestigious, even to the educated layperson. If you want to do CC on the West Coast, have unlimited access to research, and enjoy a good culture (have friends who train there), you can't go wrong training there. There are so many people I know who would kill to be in your shoes (UCSF has been their dream school for years), so you should go crazy ranking these programs.

I also have friends at IM UCSD, and the housing situation is very reasonable. It's San Diego. It's paradise. I've visited and wanted to stay.

Anyway, a good problem to have. Don't sell yourself short. If you got an invite, you obviously deserve to be there.

 

[wiloghby]

I disagree with some posters here. Everyone in medicine (that matters), and most people on the West Coast, know UCSF is A BIG DEAL. It is super prestigious, even to the educated layperson. If you want to do CC on the West Coast, have unlimited access to research, and enjoy a good culture (have friends who train there), you can't go wrong training there. There are so many people I know who would kill to be in your shoes (UCSF has been their dream school for years), so you should go crazy ranking these programs

If you read my post carefully, you will note I was referring only to non-medical folks with respect to a lack of understanding of name recognition. Certainly it's not the case if you stay in the Bay Area...but elsewhere? Most of the educated laypeople (friends from undergrad) I have spoken to haven't heard of MGH or BWH. Everyone outside of medicine Ive talked to seems to want to know if Ive heard back from "Ivy league" programs, "John Hopkins" and Cleveland Clinic.

My point is that if you are ranking a program, please do it for how well it fits for you and your career goals. Maybe UCSF is the absolute best fit for your personal, financial, and career goals going forward. Do you need to go to UCSF to get a CC fellowship on the west coast? Maybe...I guess if your next best choice is OHSU and you want to do CC in Los Angeles or San Francisco the answer might be yes?

If UCSF truly felt like a better fit on interview day, then honestly its a moot point as you should be ranking it #1 anyway.

Incidentally, I just interviewed at OHSU and I totally get the allure! I don't interview at UCSF until next week but am very scared of the cost of living going into it. Hopefully, as others have said, the fact that I have a spouse who works a real, non-resident job will help.

 

[Gray Fox]

If you read my post carefully, you will note I was referring only to non-medical folks with respect to a lack of understanding of name recognition. Certainly it's not the case if you stay in the Bay Area...but elsewhere? Most of the educated laypeople (friends from undergrad) I have spoken to haven't heard of MGH or BWH. Everyone outside of medicine Ive talked to seems to want to know if Ive heard back from "Ivy league" programs, "John Hopkins" and Cleveland Clinic.

My point is that if you are ranking a program, please do it for how well it fits for you and your career goals. Maybe UCSF is the absolute best fit for your personal, financial, and career goals going forward. Do you need to go to UCSF to get a CC fellowship on the west coast? Maybe...I guess if your next best choice is OHSU and you want to do CC in Los Angeles or San Francisco the answer might be yes?

If UCSF truly felt like a better fit on interview day, then honestly its a moot point as you should be ranking it #1 anyway.

Incidentally, I just interviewed at OHSU and I totally get the allure! I don't interview at UCSF until next week but am very scared of the cost of living going into it. Hopefully, as others have said, the fact that I have a spouse who works a real, non-resident job will help.

I read your post carefully--that's why I added my thoughts on non-medical folks. In the West Coast, many educated non-medical people know UCSF is very prestigious. I agree with Ivy League branding, but virtually nobody outside of medicine I know from the West Coast (and I live here, so I know many) know about Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic. To them, CC and Mayo have virtually no brand recognition. That's my point. Their institutional brand is very regional, as is UCSF's, but at the end of the day, medicine's opinion matters, and UCSF is among the top 4, Cleveland and Mayo are not. Neither is OHSU.

I completely agree with your 2nd point. Fit is the most important.

@rokshana had the best advice IMO. Every doc has told me the same thing. If you saw UCSF, how would you feel? If you saw OHSU, how would you feel?

 

[wiloghby]

I read your post carefully--that's why I added my thoughts on non-medical folks. In the West Coast, many educated non-medical people know UCSF is very prestigious. I agree with Ivy League branding, but virtually nobody outside of medicine I know from the West Coast (and I live here, so I know many) know about Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic. To them, CC and Mayo have virtually no brand recognition. That's my point. Their institutional brand is very regional, as is UCSF's, but at the end of the day, medicine's opinion matters, and UCSF is among the top 4, Cleveland and Mayo are not. Neither is OHSU.

I completely agree with your 2nd point. Fit is the most important.

@rokshana had the best advice IMO. Every doc has told me the same thing. If you saw UCSF, how would you feel? If you saw OHSU, how would you feel?

yeah I agree. Rokshana has the simplest method...perhaps I'll give it a whirl too.

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[Señor S]

I agree with Ivy League branding, but virtually nobody outside of medicine I know from the West Coast (and I live here, so I know many) know about Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic.

Your non-medical friends have never heard of the Mayo Clinic? Consider having them evaluated for brain damage.

 

[Gray Fox]

Your non-medical friends have never heard of the Mayo Clinic? Consider having them evaluated for brain damage.

Haha. They have the same response to people who don't know UCSF. If it's any consolation, I know Mayo Clinic

 

[gutonc]

I really do appreciate your reply. I’m driving myself crazy with this decision. I’ve never been someone to be even a candidate at a “top anything” and applied to UCSF for “the hell of it” but I have some unique life experience, despite being far less qualified then their standard crew, so they interviewed me.

On the other side, I spend a month at OHSU (which I always had thought of as my reach program) and I absolutely loved everything about it. I guess I’m letting this whole “prestige” factor cloud my judgement, and the people at UCSF we’re nothing short of incredible. And the whole “will I regret it someday” issue

I may do the coin flip

I wasn't lucky enough to get a UCSF IM interview offer, but did get one at OHSU (where I applied on a whim, loved it, ranked it #1, matched there, etc, etc, etc). But I did get to interview there for fellowship. And I absolutely loved it. Wound up ranking it #2 though...just for the COL stuff. Also matched my #1 for fellowship.

FWIW, I don't regret it.

 

[JustAnotherMedStudent2000]

I wasn't lucky enough to get a UCSF IM interview offer, but did get one at OHSU (where I applied on a whim, loved it, ranked it #1, matched there, etc, etc, etc). But I did get to interview there for fellowship. And I absolutely loved it. Wound up ranking it #2 though...just for the COL stuff. Also matched my #1 for fellowship.

FWIW, I don't regret it.

Thanks again so much for this advice, from everyone else as well.

I think I’m going to rank OHSU number one, and UCSF number 2. I realize how lucky I am to have such amazing opportunities. For what it’s worth, I got a 220 on step 1 and went to a below average state school for med school.... so I guess I’m proof that anything can happen for anyone .

Anyhow, I may die in an earthquake in either place, so maybe none of this matters much just kidding..... kind of....

 

[ilovecorgis]

Hi everyone! Would appreciate any thoughts on ranking the following 3 programs. A few notes regarding my priorities: 1) strength of overall clinical training 2) want to match into heme/onc (will likely want to stay loco-regional to wherever I did IM residency) 3) and just living in a fun area for whatever time I have off. Would be happy to be in either California or the Southeast (have family in both locations), so that specific factor doesn't bother me between the programs.

UCSD
Baylor
UNC Chapel Hill

Thanks again!

 

[amberkre]

Can anyone help me with these programs? Interested in cardiology. Looking for a program where I can get the best medical training possible (including diverse patient population, pathology, and lectures) and with cool/nice/normal residents, less concerned with time off and scheduling, less concerned with location as long as its northeast (which they all are), very NOT concerned with program name other than importance for fellowship.

Maine Med (portland,ME)
NYMC Westchester Med Center
U Conn
SUNY HSC Brooklyn
Mt. Sinai West/St Lukes
NYP Brooklyn Methodist
Mt Auburn
Lenox Hill
Drexel
NYP Queens
St Vincent (Worcester,MA)
Hofstra Northwell Staten Island

 

[SlowCodeToChina]

How does this look?
Thinking Cards fellowship.

1-2: Baylor vs Emory
3-4: tOSU vs UVA
5: Case Western
6: Wake Forest
7: UAB
8-10: UT Houston vs Brown vs Georgetown
11:VCU
12:USF
13: GWU

 

[CatFactorial]

How does this look?
Thinking Cards fellowship.

1-2: Baylor vs Emory
3-4: tOSU vs UVA
5: Case Western
6: Wake Forest
7: UAB
8-10: UT Houston vs Brown vs Georgetown
11:VCU
12:USF
13: GWU

Can personally attest that one does a boatload of cardiology as a UAB resident (not to say one doesn’t elsewhere on that list). Multiple stints in the CCU and cards consults. Tons of research for residents to do. If you can tolerate Birmingham would recommend it highly.

 

[excimo]

Can anyone help me about these programs? I have done research in GI and want to pursue GI fellowship to continue my interests. Looking for strong research possibilities and clinical training with diverse pathology. While I prefer NE, I really do not have geographical considerations.

Rank 1-3: I really cannot decide between the three. All offer unbelievable possibilities in clinical research and I've identified potential mentors within my field of interests. The residents are super smart and the rotations all seemed reasonable. Their GI match lists are great. Boston, Seattle, and Dallas are all enjoyable city for me.
1. BIDMC: BIDMC is close to my mentor so I can probably continue my current research. Staying in Boston for academic life is stressful.
2. UTSW: The hospital seems to have a lot of resources. Potential mentors in my field of interests. Clinical loads are heavy, and I think the GI division is growing fast. Many matched to their in-house fellowship.
3. UW: Less clinical loads, no X+Y, WWAMI rotations. Possibilities to work with another of my mentor. Residents are happy, and many matched to in-house GI.

Rank 4-6:
4. Ohio State: 8+4 system with a lot of flexibility. Can stay at the same hospital most of the time.
5. UT Houston: Opportunities with TMC.
6. U Massachusetts: Many matched to in-house GI,

Rank 7-8
7. U Connecticut
8. Baylor University: They have strong GI division. John Fordtran is there.

Really appreciate your inputs!

 

[fasteddie911]

Can anyone help me about these programs? I have done research in GI and want to pursue GI fellowship to continue my interests. Looking for strong research possibilities and clinical training with diverse pathology. While I prefer NE, I really do not have geographical considerations.

Rank 1-3: I really cannot decide between the three. All offer unbelievable possibilities in clinical research and I've identified potential mentors within my field of interests. The residents are super smart and the rotations all seemed reasonable. Their GI match lists are great. Boston, Seattle, and Dallas are all enjoyable city for me.
1. BIDMC: BIDMC is close to my mentor so I can probably continue my current research. Staying in Boston for academic life is stressful.
2. UTSW: The hospital seems to have a lot of resources. Potential mentors in my field of interests. Clinical loads are heavy, and I think the GI division is growing fast. Many matched to their in-house fellowship.
3. UW: Less clinical loads, no X+Y, WWAMI rotations. Possibilities to work with another of my mentor. Residents are happy, and many matched to in-house GI.

Rand 4-6:
4. Ohio State: 8+4 system with a lot of flexibility. Can stay at the same hospital most of the time.
5. UT Houston: Opportunities with TMC.
6. U Massachusetts: Many matched to in-house GI,

Rand 7-8
7. U Connecticut
8. Baylor University: They have strong GI division. John Fordtran is there.

Really appreciate your inputs!

I would leave it as is, maybe swap UTSW with UW (personally prefer Seattle over Dallas). BIDMC is strong and you don't have to stick around Boston for fellowship or as an attending.

 

[Animalcules]

I would leave it as is, maybe swap UTSW with UW (personally prefer Seattle over Dallas). BIDMC is strong and you don't have to stick around Boston for fellowship or as an attending.

UTSW > UW > BIDMC

in terms of strength / autonomy in my opinion

 

[Xurros]

Need some help with my rank list... Interested in heme or GI, have slight northeast bias but open to going anywhere. Need help deciding on where to put Hopkins. I really enjoyed the interview day when I visited and thought it would be my number 2 or 3 after interview day, but the other applicants I've met on the interview trail had negative impressions of the program (some felt it was old-school, others malignant, residents overworked, etc) which is coloring my perception of the program a bit. One other issue with Hopkins for me is safety, as one resident told me that a couple people in the program have been assaulted in the past...

Rank list (in terms of preference without Hopkins, as mentioned above)
1. BWH - Got the gut feeling here. This place was wonderful. Residents very happy and down to earth. Supportive program.
2. Stanford - Liked interview day here, but have concerns about fellowship match as it appears that almost everyone stays there for fellowship, which makes me wonder if people just don't want to leave or if they aren't getting interviews elsewhere
3. Cornell - Really liked what I saw there. Residents appeared be very happy. PD was amazing and very personable. Sloan across the street with fantastic heme/onc match list.

Rest of List:
4. BIDMC - Really strong liver program and affiliation with DFCI (Good for someone like me who is between two specialties). Liked the program administration and residents. Cons: Felt a bit on the cushier side to me, essentially a one hospital system
5. Columbia - Some mixed feelings here. Wonderful opportunities for research/mentorship. Great autonomy. Residents appeared to be a bit tired though and not sure about the area.
6. UCLA
7. Vanderbilt
8. Yale

 

[HatTricks01]

Need some help with my rank list... Interested in heme or GI, have slight northeast bias but open to going anywhere. Need help deciding on where to put Hopkins. I really enjoyed the interview day when I visited and thought it would be my number 2 or 3 after interview day, but the other applicants I've met on the interview trail had negative impressions of the program (some felt it was old-school, others malignant, residents overworked, etc) which is coloring my perception of the program a bit. One other issue with Hopkins for me is safety, as one resident told me that a couple people in the program have been assaulted in the past...

Rank list (in terms of preference without Hopkins, as mentioned above)
1. BWH - Got the gut feeling here. This place was wonderful. Residents very happy and down to earth. Supportive program.
2. Stanford - Liked interview day here, but have concerns about fellowship match as it appears that almost everyone stays there for fellowship, which makes me wonder if people just don't want to leave or if they aren't getting interviews elsewhere
3. Cornell - Really liked what I saw there. Residents appeared be very happy. PD was amazing and very personable. Sloan across the street with fantastic heme/onc match list.

Rest of List:
4. BIDMC
5. Columbia
6. UCLA
7. Vanderbilt
8. Yale

It may be difficult but don’t let other people’s perception of a program influence your impression of it. Everyone is coming from different places, have different thresholds for what they are able to endure, and have different ideas for what they are looking for in a residency. Especially in terms “malignancy,” I’ve found a looooooot of people seem to confuse that word with “hard working.” Too many applicants come into interviews already influenced by the popular opinion of the program, view the program with a lens on, and leave unable to forumalate their own opinion. I only try to gather facts from coapplicants that I may have missed and ignore anything subjective when discussing programs. With that said, I haven’t interviewed at JHH so I can’t speak on it but if you liked it, rank it highly.

As far as Stanford goes, I was also curious about the heavy in house match. Asked specifically about it and was told for Cards and Heme/Onc, a lot of applicants who match internally are PSTP and continue their research at Stanford. And for GI, I spoke to this years GI applicants and 2 different GI faculty who said that their applicants get interviews nationwide but many prefer to stay on the west coast. Their GI match list over the years reflects this. How far exactly down their match lists they end up is the only thing I couldn’t collect.

 

[Xurros]

It may be difficult but don’t let other people’s perception of a program influence your impression of it. Everyone is coming from different places, have different thresholds for what they are able to endure, and have different ideas for what they are looking for in a residency. Especially in terms “malignancy,” I’ve found a looooooot of people seem to confuse that word with “hard working.” Too many applicants come into interviews already influenced by the popular opinion of the program, view the program with a lens on, and leave unable to forumalate their own opinion. I only try to gather facts from coapplicants that I may have missed and ignore anything subjective when discussing programs. With that said, I haven’t interviewed at JHH so I can’t speak on it but if you liked it, rank it highly.

As far as Stanford goes, I was also curious about the heavy in house match. Asked specifically about it and was told for Cards and Heme/Onc, a lot of applicants who match internally are PTSP and continue their research at Stanford. And for GI, I spoke to this years GI applicants and 2 different GI faculty who said that their applicants get interviews nationwide but many prefer to stay on the west coast. Their GI match list over the years reflects this. How far exactly down their match lists they end up is the only thing I couldn’t collect.

Thanks for the response! I did feel that some people were a bit biased already when I spoke with them about Hopkins (probably because of the malignancy reputation and Baltimore), but I did not get a malignant vibe when I went. The PD was great, and the residents acknowledged that they work very hard but were a very friendly bunch. I've talked with some Hopkins students on the trail about their impressions, and I've gotten mixed responses from them (some of them just want to leave because they don't want to live in Baltimore for another X years).

That is good to know about the match at Stanford. I do remember one of the chiefs told me that some residents only apply to California programs for fellowship because they want to stay in California.

 

[DBV]

Thanks for the response! I did feel that some people were a bit biased already when I spoke with them about Hopkins (probably because of the malignancy reputation and Baltimore), but I did not get a malignant vibe when I went. The PD was great, and the residents acknowledged that they work very hard but were a very friendly bunch. I've talked with some Hopkins students on the trail about their impressions, and I've gotten mixed responses from them (some of them just want to leave because they don't want to live in Baltimore for another X years).

That is good to know about the match at Stanford. I do remember one of the chiefs told me that some residents only apply to California programs for fellowship because they want to stay in California.

I really wanted to like Hopkins (from baltimore and want to stay) and their residents were cool but they are horribly inefficient and practice low value and high cost care for the sake of med ed. Those were two aspects I don't care for and don't want to encorporate to my future practice.

It is funny how easily perceptions can be shaped though

 

[Animalcules]

I really wanted to like Hopkins (from baltimore and want to stay) and their residents were cool but they are horribly inefficient and practice low value and high cost care for the sake of med ed. Those were two aspects I don't care for and don't want to encorporate to my future practice.

It is funny how easily perceptions can be shaped though

Hahaha, not at Hopkins, but this sounds like a lot of he-said-she-said. If you want high value, low cost care, you should consider leaving the US healthcare system altogether. You won’t be happy here. We are practicing in a no-clue-PET-scan system. Nivo-ipi-nivo-ipi-eculizumab-carT-toculizumab medicine.

 

[DBV]

Hahaha, not at Hopkins, but this sounds like a lot of he-said-she-said. If you want high value, low cost care, you should consider leaving the US healthcare system altogether. You won’t be happy here. We are practicing in a no-clue-PET-scan system. Nivo-ipi-nivo-ipi-eculizumab-carT-toculizumab medicine.

It was my experience there man. Didnt mean to hurt your feelings.

 

[Xurros]

I really wanted to like Hopkins (from baltimore and want to stay) and their residents were cool but they are horribly inefficient and practice low value and high cost care for the sake of med ed. Those were two aspects I don't care for and don't want to encorporate to my future practice.

It is funny how easily perceptions can be shaped though

It's interesting you say that because someone on my interview day actually said that to me when I asked if there were any weaknesses to the program, that the system is a bit inefficient (with the trade-off of autonomy and learning) and that the cost of care is high (i.e. that residents will order every test for a patient presentation for the sake of being thorough, but this is true pretty much at all academic medical centers I think).

 

[Animalcules]

It was my experience there man. Didnt mean to hurt your feelings.

No worries, I have no skin in the game.

 

[fasteddie911]

UTSW > UW > BIDMC

in terms of strength / autonomy in my opinion

What's your opinion based off of? Just curious. I've worked with people who've trained at those programs and they're all excellent docs and had great things to say about their respective programs. They're pretty equivalent programs in the grand scheme of things, it's more a personal decision and 'gut' feeling.

 

[fasteddie911]

It's interesting you say that because someone on my interview day actually said that to me when I asked if there were any weaknesses to the program, that the system is a bit inefficient (with the trade-off of autonomy and learning) and that the cost of care is high (i.e. that residents will order every test for a patient presentation for the sake of being thorough, but this is true pretty much at all academic medical centers I think).

Not every program is like that. Though I know of another big name program where residents order everything, seemingly trying to find rare or interesting cases rather than trying to practice good medicine.

 

[bm2001]

I need help ranking the following:

1. University of Miami-Jackson Memorial vs. Baylor COM
2. UAB
3. Rush
4. University of Illinois Chicago
5. UT Houston
6. USF
7. Ohio State
8. University of Cincinnati
9. UW Madison
10. IU
11. UC Davis

I'm interested in Heme/Onc or Cardiology. I'm a native Spanish speaker which is why I'm attracted to Miami.

In terms of chances into going into a competitive field like Cardiology, how much would it affect me to choose Miami over Baylor?

Thanks

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

I need help ranking the following:

1. University of Miami-Jackson Memorial vs. Baylor COM
2. UAB
3. Rush
4. University of Illinois Chicago
5. UT Houston
6. USF
7. Ohio State
8. University of Cincinnati
9. UW Madison
10. IU
11. UC Davis

I'm interested in Heme/Onc or Cardiology. I'm a native Spanish speaker which is why I'm attracted to Miami.

In terms of chances into going into a competitive field like Cardiology, how much would it affect me to choose Miami over Baylor?

Thanks

I think you'll be fine either way for Miami or Baylor and going into cards. I'd probably have tOSU, UW Madison, and Davis a bit higher than where you have them but you gotta rank them how you like them

 

[ShuperNewbie]

I think you'll be fine either way for Miami or Baylor and going into cards. I'd probably have tOSU, UW Madison, and Davis a bit higher than where you have them but you gotta rank them how you like them

Yeah I agree. It's really not going to affect you very much.

 

[Meridian32]

I really need help and please try not to think this is ridiculous. Honest advice.

My desires: a solid clinical training without being worked to the bone and where starting a family in residency would be possible (I’m a woman, and a tad older), a good chance at a west coast pulm/crit fellowship some day, a place where people are collaborative and kind to one another, where research opportunities are abundant

It may seem that UCSF is the easiest number one, but starting a family with their workload and cost of living intimidates me quite a bit....

My top choices:

UCSF
OHSU
Colorado
UCSD

Hi, I'm a UCSF resident and wanted to say that you can't go wrong with any of these options - they are all fantastic programs and you will come out really well trained and able to do PCCM fellowship on the West Coast from any of them. That said, I do want to say the workload here at UCSF is reasonable. Of course we work hard on inpatient months, but work hour restrictions are taken very seriously and outpatient months are relatively relaxed - as a senior resident, I'm outpatient every other month, and usually get 1.5-2 "research" days/week (free time) in addition to weekends off. Also, the cost of living is high, but we do get paid more than at most other programs due to the housing stipend, and the cost of living is not prohibitive to having kids - there are several residents in the program with kids, including female residents who have had kids during residency. It does help if you have a partner who also works, but we have had residents with multiple kids whose partners were stay-at-home spouses and were able to make it work. The program is also really supportive of families in terms of enabling a reasonable amount of maternity/paternity leave, having a robust jeopardy program to support said leave and letting residents extend their time in program if needed to compensate. Overall, I'm really happy that I ended up here.

That said, I also want to say that again, you can't go wrong with any of your fantastic options. At this point in training, you should absolutely rank based on personal factors/fit and not "prestige," which becomes completely unimportant once you actually start residency. I bet you'll be happy at any of the programs you listed, and it's totally reasonable to rank OHSU over UCSF, if that's what you end up doing. It's not going to matter in 10 years once you're happily established as a Pulm attending. Good luck!

 

[ac2012]

Hi! Hoping to get some help with rank list orders. I'm currently deciding between GI and Heme-Onc for fellowship. My family is in DC and would prefer to be somewhat close. I want to do residency in a city in the NE that is diverse and also good for singles.

1. Georgetown
2. Montefiore
3. Jefferson
4. Temple
5. UVA
6. VCU
7. Jackson Health-U Miami
8. Cleveland Clinic
9. Rutgers-NJMS
10. Rutgers- New Brunswick
11. Lenox Hill
12. Albert Einstein-Philly
13. NYU Winthrop
14. Inova Fairfax
15. EVMS
16. Jefferson-PC
17. WVU

Having a hard time between Georgetown, Montefiore and Jefferson, the two Rutgers, Jackson vs. Cleveland Clinic, and NYU Winthrop vs Inova Fairfax.

 

[loeffy]

Need some help with my rank list... Interested in heme or GI, have slight northeast bias but open to going anywhere. Need help deciding on where to put Hopkins. I really enjoyed the interview day when I visited and thought it would be my number 2 or 3 after interview day, but the other applicants I've met on the interview trail had negative impressions of the program (some felt it was old-school, others malignant, residents overworked, etc) which is coloring my perception of the program a bit. One other issue with Hopkins for me is safety, as one resident told me that a couple people in the program have been assaulted in the past...

Rank list (in terms of preference without Hopkins, as mentioned above)
1. BWH - Got the gut feeling here. This place was wonderful. Residents very happy and down to earth. Supportive program.
2. Stanford - Liked interview day here, but have concerns about fellowship match as it appears that almost everyone stays there for fellowship, which makes me wonder if people just don't want to leave or if they aren't getting interviews elsewhere
3. Cornell - Really liked what I saw there. Residents appeared be very happy. PD was amazing and very personable. Sloan across the street with fantastic heme/onc match list.

Rest of List:
4. BIDMC - Really strong liver program and affiliation with DFCI (Good for someone like me who is between two specialties). Liked the program administration and residents. Cons: Felt a bit on the cushier side to me, essentially a one hospital system
5. Columbia - Some mixed feelings here. Wonderful opportunities for research/mentorship. Great autonomy. Residents appeared to be a bit tired though and not sure about the area.
6. UCLA
7. Vanderbilt
8. Yale

I would ignore other applicants opinions of a program, it's very personal and subjective and I've heard applicants spread false info about programs (not on purpose), so just ignore them. I wouldn't worry about getting fellowship interviews coming from Stanford, however there is something to be said about having alumni match all over, creating a network of sorts for future alumni/fellowship applicants. BIDMC doesn't seem cush, based on friends who went there, seemed pretty robust through all 3 years, not sure how a one-hospital system makes a difference. I'm not sure I'd consider Cornell hem/onc match as "fantastic" as it's heavily skewed to MSKCC. In the end all those programs will give you solid training and get you into fellowship.

 

[agnes5]

I would ignore other applicants opinions of a program, it's very personal and subjective and I've heard applicants spread false info about programs (not on purpose), so just ignore them. I wouldn't worry about getting fellowship interviews coming from Stanford, however there is something to be said about having alumni match all over, creating a network of sorts for future alumni/fellowship applicants. BIDMC doesn't seem cush, based on friends who went there, seemed pretty robust through all 3 years, not sure how a one-hospital system makes a difference. I'm not sure I'd consider Cornell hem/onc match as "fantastic" as it's heavily skewed to MSKCC. In the end all those programs will give you solid training and get you into fellowship.

That's the same as saying Brigham's heme/onc match isn't really fantastic because it's heavily skewed towards DFCI.

 

[IMdoc2018]

Hi everyone, looking for some thoughts on my list so far. For background, I’m planning for a career in Heme/Onc, unsure if wanting to be involved in academics or not. Would like to do research but not as the main focus of my career (i.e. involved in clinical trials but maintaining a strong clinical practice). I applied very broadly because my wife (non-medical career) and I have no strong desires to be in one particular region, though we’ve been on the east coast our entire lives so far. Here’s my current thoughts.

1-2. UNC vs BIDMC. Really loved my interview days at both. UNC is closer to home and more affordable, but Boston is an amazing city. BIDMC would probably be the best choice for a career in academics (if I decided to go that route), but for clinical training I think both would be excellent. Match lists for UNC are mostly staying at UNC because they seem to want to be there (which would be fine with me), BIDMC matches all over. Struggling with this one.

3-4. Baylor MD Anderson track vs Baylor Categorical. Will probably put the MDACC track ahead, since it seems like a great opportunity to get a head start on clinical onc before fellowship. Curious to hear where their first graduating class from that track is headed. Like Houston as a city.

5. Case Western. Was really impressed with this interview day and Dr. Armitage. Don’t think we would mind Cleveland.

6-8. UVA vs Maryland vs OHSU. Having a tough time here. All seem like excellent places to train with solid reputations. Very different geographically, so I guess that’s the best way to decide? How important is it that UVA only has a clinical cancer center whereas the other two are comprehensive? Would appreciate thoughts.

9-14. VCU vs Wake Forest vs MUSC vs Rush vs USF vs GW. VCU, WF, and USF all have comprehensive cancer centers (MUSC has clinical) so maybe those are ahead(?), but GW and Rush both have decent reps for IM programs.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[whoknows2012]

Hi! Hoping to get some help with rank list orders. I'm currently deciding between GI and Heme-Onc for fellowship. My family is in DC and would prefer to be somewhat close. I want to do residency in a city in the NE that is diverse and also good for singles.

1. Georgetown
2. Montefiore
3. Jefferson
4. Temple
5. UVA
6. VCU
7. Jackson Health-U Miami
8. Cleveland Clinic
9. Rutgers-NJMS
10. Rutgers- New Brunswick
11. Lenox Hill
12. Albert Einstein-Philly
13. NYU Winthrop
14. Inova Fairfax
15. EVMS
16. Jefferson-PC
17. WVU

Having a hard time between Georgetown, Montefiore and Jefferson, the two Rutgers, Jackson vs. Cleveland Clinic, and NYU Winthrop vs Inova Fairfax.

By reputation alone I’d rank it as far as top 10;

UVA
Jeff
Monte
Georgetown
Cleveland clinic
Miami
Temple
Vcu
Rutgers New Brunswick
NJMS


As far as your preference to be in a big city in NE possibly near family in DC and a city that’s good for singles how you ranked it is pretty fair. I think especially for the top 5 above reputation wise it’s not much of a drop off. The big drop off for you occurs when you go from the strong academic programs to the community programs like Winthrop and Lenox which you almost certainly won’t match at given the solid programs on your list.

 

[TDoc42]

@Xurros I have a similar list if you want to PM me! I'm actually putting Yale much higher and Stanford much lower -- there is strength in some areas at stanford and glaring weaknesses in clinical training in others (e.g. was told by residents and faculty that there were big gaps in ICU, exposure to underserved populations etc. and these are important things for me). I liked baltimore a lot and I'm not sure where these negative impressions of JHH are coming from. I have many friends at hopkins with a variety of interests who are loving it and never felt concerned for their safety. In the end, I agree with @loeffy -- people have different opinions on programs for a variety of reasons but go with what you think would be best for you without taking into account what random internet folks say.

 

[gutonc]

6-8. UVA vs Maryland vs OHSU. Having a tough time here. All seem like excellent places to train with solid reputations. Very different geographically, so I guess that’s the best way to decide? How important is it that UVA only has a clinical cancer center whereas the other two are comprehensive? Would appreciate thoughts.

I won't comment on your list in general (mostly because it's been >10 years since I was in your shoes so any information I have is so outdated that it's irrelevant). But to the issue of varying levels of Cancer Center designation, that is irrelevant to residents, fellows, 98% of attendings (even in Oncology) and pretty much all patients. But it gets administrators massive wood and even bigger bonuses.

I'm currently faculty, and was a resident and fellow at one of those 2 CCC places (the one that got it most recently...OK, fine...OHSU) and when I was a fellow, I asked Dr. Druker (the Cancer Institute director) about becoming a CCC. He very quickly put me in my place about how irrelevant that is with regard to training, patient care and research opportunities.

If you're at all familiar with the Michelin restaurant rating system, it's very similar. To get a single Michelin star, you need to have phenomenal food, presentation, service, etc and an overall experience that leaves customers wanting more. The 2nd star comes when you have things like a single waiter per 1-2 tables, somebody who folds your napkin for you every time you wipe your mouth and a sommelier who will literally stab himself in the eye with a corkscrew if the wine you order isn't to your liking. You get a 3rd star when the bathroom is cleaned every time someone uses it and the kitchen is cleaned and sanitized anytime a dish goes out.

Likewise, to get any sort of NCI cancer center designation, you need to have a high level of clinical care and research activity by your faculty, as well as the relevant support structure to make it happen...and that's what we all hope for. Moving up the Cancer Center designation ladder mostly requires more "support services" which are mostly irrelevant to patient care and definitely irrelevant to anyone actually involved in clinical care of patients.

As an example, the big changes that got OHSU it's CCC designation were a new, pretty outpatient cancer center and a patient/family hotel building that is now a 3 minute walk from the clinic (instead of the 15 minute walk the prior place was).

 

[DerpStore]

Hi would appreciate some help with fine-tuning the top of my list. Interested in academic/research career in onc maybe pulm.

1. UCSF- somewhat worried about COL, but loved the program and the city
2-4. Stanford, Penn, Columbia (leaning towards this order). I loved my interview day at Stanford and Columbia, really liked the residents at both these programs. My concerns are the lack of ICU time at Stanford, especially since I am considering pulm/cc, and NYC seems like a very daunting place to do residency. Grew up in the midwest and am not sure I am ready for the city. Penn I didn't get as great of a gut feeling, and am not as excited about Philly, but it is hard to argue with their academic reputation.
5-6. University of Washington vs University of Chicago... really feel like flipping a coin here. Loved Seattle when I visited and Chicago is great too, both seemed very strong, with great reputations.
7. Duke- wasnt crazy about NC, seemed a little cards focused
8. Mayo- loved it, but... rochester.

I feel very lucky to have interviewed at these places and feel like I really couldn't go wrong with any of them. Am I missing anything the way I have this? Thank you for the help!

 

[TDoc42]

@DerpStore Hey! Nice to see another potential pulm/cc fellow! FWIW I'm also interested in the field and I was told on my stanford interview day that ICU is lacking in their program. A resident also told me that he was initially interested in pulm/cc but then decided to switch fields due to lack of exposure/mentorship opportunities. I think based on your interests you may sacrifice something putting the order you listed, but if all else fits I'm sure you could work out something, maybe just not the caliber experience of other places. Just my two cents, go with what feels right!

I would put UW over UChicago for pulm/cc--harborview is basically one giant ICU and there's a lot of emphasis on solid/thorough critical care training in the program. I also think Seattle > Chicago because it's super temperate/tons of mountains/water/rainforests etc.

Also, as another small-town midwesterner (born + raised!) who lived in Manhattan and LOVED it, don't let the Big Apple intimidate you! It's a great experience Good luck!

Sorry! Didn't see the onc interest! Cannot speak to that field and relative strengths because I know less, but I'll put another plug in for NYC!

 

[TDoc42]

Sorry! Didn't see the onc interest! Cannot speak to that field and relative strengths because I know less, but I'll put another plug in for NYC!

 

[itsmcv2015]

VCU is an exceptional program. The clinical training is superb. The catchment area covers something like 5,000,000 people and you get transfers from UVA, VTC and 35 other nearby hospitals. The VA that is affiliated with VCU is the leading hospital for cardiology in the VA system and they get transfers/referrals from all over the country. The bread and butter is there, but you see the zebras regularly and as new presentations..not just diagnosed already and transferred. There is more autonomy at that program than most university programs, which is excellent, but there's enough supervision as well. It's not the program for everyone, the culture is not malignant whatsoever, but you have to be able to get along with everyone.

While Richmond is a great place and the VAMC there is decent, the program itself is malignant. Many of the best faculty have retired and the faculty we now have on the floors are less than ideal. We also have major problems with abuse of medical students and interns at the program.

 

[fasteddie911]

Hi everyone, looking for some thoughts on my list so far. For background, I’m planning for a career in Heme/Onc, unsure if wanting to be involved in academics or not. Would like to do research but not as the main focus of my career (i.e. involved in clinical trials but maintaining a strong clinical practice). I applied very broadly because my wife (non-medical career) and I have no strong desires to be in one particular region, though we’ve been on the east coast our entire lives so far. Here’s my current thoughts.

1-2. UNC vs BIDMC. Really loved my interview days at both. UNC is closer to home and more affordable, but Boston is an amazing city. BIDMC would probably be the best choice for a career in academics (if I decided to go that route), but for clinical training I think both would be excellent. Match lists for UNC are mostly staying at UNC because they seem to want to be there (which would be fine with me), BIDMC matches all over. Struggling with this one.

3-4. Baylor MD Anderson track vs Baylor Categorical. Will probably put the MDACC track ahead, since it seems like a great opportunity to get a head start on clinical onc before fellowship. Curious to hear where their first graduating class from that track is headed. Like Houston as a city.

5. Case Western. Was really impressed with this interview day and Dr. Armitage. Don’t think we would mind Cleveland.

6-8. UVA vs Maryland vs OHSU. Having a tough time here. All seem like excellent places to train with solid reputations. Very different geographically, so I guess that’s the best way to decide? How important is it that UVA only has a clinical cancer center whereas the other two are comprehensive? Would appreciate thoughts.

9-14. VCU vs Wake Forest vs MUSC vs Rush vs USF vs GW. VCU, WF, and USF all have comprehensive cancer centers (MUSC has clinical) so maybe those are ahead(?), but GW and Rush both have decent reps for IM programs.

Thanks for the help guys!

I'd put BIDMC first. Friends who went there enjoyed their experience and felt well-trained and they have a solid match list, as they go all over in a variety of programs, plus they have access to DFCI.

 

[Animalcules]

I'd put BIDMC first. Friends who went there enjoyed their experience and felt well-trained and they have a solid match list, as they go all over in a variety of programs, plus they have access to DFCI.

Fully agree, but despite have accesses to Dana Farber, residents don’t seem to match there for fellowship. It may help to get in other places.

 

[Redpancreas]

I need help ranking the following:

1. University of Miami-Jackson Memorial vs. Baylor COM
2. UAB
3. Rush
4. University of Illinois Chicago
5. UT Houston
6. USF
7. Ohio State
8. University of Cincinnati
9. UW Madison
10. IU
11. UC Davis

I'm interested in Heme/Onc or Cardiology. I'm a native Spanish speaker which is why I'm attracted to Miami.

In terms of chances into going into a competitive field like Cardiology, how much would it affect me to choose Miami over Baylor?

Thanks

Very nice list. Congratulations on pulling some very competitive interviews. Since you're attracted to Miami I won't question that choice. I would say that I would consider putting UWisc/IU up higher and Ohio State should be your #3. City life matters, but don't let it be everything.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hi! Hoping to get some help with rank list orders. I'm currently deciding between GI and Heme-Onc for fellowship. My family is in DC and would prefer to be somewhat close. I want to do residency in a city in the NE that is diverse and also good for singles.

1. Georgetown
2. Montefiore
3. Jefferson
4. Temple
5. UVA
6. VCU
7. Jackson Health-U Miami
8. Cleveland Clinic
9. Rutgers-NJMS
10. Rutgers- New Brunswick
11. Lenox Hill
12. Albert Einstein-Philly
13. NYU Winthrop
14. Inova Fairfax
15. EVMS
16. Jefferson-PC
17. WVU

Having a hard time between Georgetown, Montefiore and Jefferson, the two Rutgers, Jackson vs. Cleveland Clinic, and NYU Winthrop vs Inova Fairfax.

Very nice list. Congratulations on the interviews. Unless there's some super huge reason you need to be at Georgetown (you have other programs that make DC accessible) I would actually bump down GT quite a bit. Nothing from GWU, huh?

1. UVA
2. Jefferson
3. Montefiore
4. Temple/VCU
5. Georgetown

I didn't interview at Newark, but NB and I loved it. I'd flip that order but then again I can't truly compare both. I actually liked CCF but it seems you're not too high on it. You'll get mixed opinions and each to his or her own.