**Official 2025 OMFS PASS/Interviews/Match/Non-Match**

[omsorbust]

Does anyone know if the transcript needs to be in for the app to be complete or just the letters of rec?

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[gigachadomfs]

Figured I’d post the unmatched list from last year for everyone

 

[pre_dent2000]

DM me

Would you please be able to send me your advice as well? Thank you!

 

[omsorbust]

Does anyone have any insight into Henry Ford's program? There is just one resident with no upper levels, and it seems like no one else was accepted post match. So I have no idea if it's worth sending an app there

 

[OMFSW]

Figured I’d post the unmatched list from last year for everyoneView attachment 391833View attachment 391834

I think quite a few of these may go unmatched again this coming cycle

 

[yurpking]

I think quite a few of these may go unmatched again this coming cycle

Why you thinking that?

 

[OMFSW]

Why you thinking that?

There's a reason most of those programs went unmatched. Applicants are getting more selective every cycle as word gets out about which programs are malignant, weak in certain areas or lack stability. Some of those may be a fluke but I highly doubt its a majority.

 

[omsorbust]

is there a list somewhere of schools that require secondary apps?

 

[FosterWallace]

Did anyone receive a supplemental app for NOVA 6-year? Or info about a supplemental fee? Pass site says they need both

 

[We'reAllGonnaMakeIt]

1. Indiana: In-Person - 10/25 & 10/28 - Call June
2. UF Jacksonville - 10/29 & 11/5 - email
3. Henry Ford - 10/24 & 10/25 - email
4. Case Western - 10/4 - email

 

[gryffindor]

That's a lot of unmatched positions. Back in the day there would be extremely few unmatched spots. Is OMS becoming less sought after as dental students chase things like "work life balance" and "lifestyle"?

 

[Van Der Woude]

The field is changing. Academic OMFS is still pushing MD integrated programs. $$, time, and location are taking an effect.

The standardization of 6 year programs also makes it more academically challenging to obtain especially those in competitive locations. NOLA and Shreveport, while amazing OMFS programs, are definitely less desirable locations as most people live on the east/west coast and those places are hard to transplant. They have a great culture though. Most of the Midwest culture is intelligent transplants. Coastal "competitive" med schools have higher CBSE score requirements which eliminates most dental students but also are more expensive and have more med school requirements and less OMFS experience.

Most dental schools don't teach people "medical school" medicine. I for one believe most medical school is self taught but whatever.

4 year programs are competitive and people with great academics flock to them instead of 6 year programs because $$$ and time. However, not everyone who matches into a 4 year spot is a good academic candidate. I've seen bottom half of the class and <55 cbse match into 4 year spots. Those with no externships and out of GPRs without any internship experience.

Its 100% unfair and spits in the face of real applicants who interned in your hospital, learned your system, and put the work in to travel for externships and not sleep all night just to take some general dentist or dental student with worse grades because they "fit" your programs desire for that year's class.

I went the 6 year route. At the end of the day: 4 year guys entering private practice and not staying in academics are still dentists to the majority of people. There is no standardization amongst them. Some of them are amazing surgeons, don't get me wrong. but some aren't.

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not. There are ****ty dentists. Just like there are ****ty OMS. And it grows tiring explaining LINRIC scores, head and neck spaces, how blood flows in the body, leg compartments and having to deal with made up medicine.

In my residency, I call out my sedation meds. Nurse pushes. The attending is not in the room until the case is almost done in 15 minutes. I cover a children's hospital and get all the kid facial trauma from 3 states. I cover a private hospital and see all the heart transplant patients. I then go to the tertiary care state funded center and see all the GSWs.

The program you go to matters. Your experience matters. The standardization of your field matters. I don't know if OMFS is going in the right direction for the latter.

 

[mangler]

The field is changing. Academic OMFS is still pushing MD integrated programs. $$, time, and location are taking an effect.

The standardization of 6 year programs also makes it more academically challenging to obtain especially those in competitive locations. NOLA and Shreveport, while amazing OMFS programs, are definitely less desirable locations as most people live on the east/west coast and those places are hard to transplant. They have a great culture though. Most of the midwest culture is intelligent transplants. Coastal "competitive" med schools have higher CBSE score requirements which eliminates most dental students but also are more expensive and have more med school requirements.

Most dental schools don't teach people "medical school" medicine. I for one believe most medical school is self taught but whatever.

4 year programs are competitive and people with great academics flock to them instead of 6 year programs because $$$ and time. However, not everyone who matches into a 4 year spot is a good academic candidate. I've seen bottom half of the class and <55 cbse match into 4 year spots. Those with no externships and out of GPRs without any internship experience.
Its 100% unfair and spits in the face of real surgeons who made a name for themselves in the hospital.

I went the 6 year route. At the end of the day: 4 year guys entering private practice and not staying in academics are still dentists to the majority of people. There is no standardization amongst them. Some of them are amazing surgeons, don't get me wrong. but some aren't.

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not. There are ****ty dentists. Just like there are ****ty OMS. And it grows tiring explaining LINRIC scores, head and neck spaces, how blood flows in the body, leg compartments and having to deal with made up medicine.

In my residency, I call out my sedation meds. Nurse pushes. The attending is not in the room until the case is done in 15 minutes. I cover a children's hospital and get all the kid facial trauma from 3 states. I cover a private hospital and see all the heart transplant patients. I then go to the tertiary care state funded center and see all the GSWs.

The program you go to matters. The standardization of your field matters. I don't know if OMFS is going in the right direction for the latter.

And you think 6 year programs have universally higher standards than 4 year programs?

Can't wait to hear how two years of electives in psych, neurology etc. makes someone a better a surgeon.

I did my non-cat at a big name 6 year program. Some of the graduates could barely take out teeth.

 

[Van Der Woude]

read my post again. I said most don't and the field isn't what most applicants think it is.

Also: I'm sure your hospital attending cares about taking out teeth more than necrotizing fasciitis of the face? nah.

Would you let some dentist who hasn't stayed in academics deal with your nec fasc? I ****ing wouldn't let them touch me or my mother bro.

 

[mangler]

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not.

Is this not you saying 6 year programs have higher standards?

Would you let some dentist who hasn't stayed in academics deal with your nec fasc? I ****ing wouldn't let them touch my mother bro.

What practicing OMS is treating nec fasc by themselves? Every private practice OMS (>90% of all graduates) is referring that **** straight to the nearest major hospital.

 

[Van Der Woude]

i've seen the applicants for our 4 year spots stats vs our 6 year spot stats. the latter hold themselves to a higher academic standard at the bare minimum. Our program also likes non-cats for both spots. clinically we are great at both for the "dental" portion.

but you spent 5 years in residency? you shoulda just done the +1 year for the MD outa school at that rate homie. I know tons of 4 year guys with internships and 4 year attendings (guys in private practice and the leadership around the country) who feel the same way.

money blinds people though. if you had the grades for it and didn't get the MD. money is almost always the reason why.

 

[Prehealthwhatever]

The field is changing. Academic OMFS is still pushing MD integrated programs. $$, time, and location are taking an effect.

The standardization of 6 year programs also makes it more academically challenging to obtain especially those in competitive locations. NOLA and Shreveport, while amazing OMFS programs, are definitely less desirable locations as most people live on the east/west coast and those places are hard to transplant. They have a great culture though. Most of the Midwest culture is intelligent transplants. Coastal "competitive" med schools have higher CBSE score requirements which eliminates most dental students but also are more expensive and have more med school requirements and less OMFS experience.

Most dental schools don't teach people "medical school" medicine. I for one believe most medical school is self taught but whatever.

4 year programs are competitive and people with great academics flock to them instead of 6 year programs because $$$ and time. However, not everyone who matches into a 4 year spot is a good academic candidate. I've seen bottom half of the class and <55 cbse match into 4 year spots. Those with no externships and out of GPRs without any internship experience.

Its 100% unfair and spits in the face of real applicants who interned in your hospital, learned your system, and put the work in to travel for externships and not sleep all night just to take some general dentist or dental student with worse grades because they "fit" your programs desire for that year's class.

I went the 6 year route. At the end of the day: 4 year guys entering private practice and not staying in academics are still dentists to the majority of people. There is no standardization amongst them. Some of them are amazing surgeons, don't get me wrong. but some aren't.

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not. There are ****ty dentists. Just like there are ****ty OMS. And it grows tiring explaining LINRIC scores, head and neck spaces, how blood flows in the body, leg compartments and having to deal with made up medicine.

In my residency, I call out my sedation meds. Nurse pushes. The attending is not in the room until the case is almost done in 15 minutes. I cover a children's hospital and get all the kid facial trauma from 3 states. I cover a private hospital and see all the heart transplant patients. I then go to the tertiary care state funded center and see all the GSWs.

The program you go to matters. Your experience matters. The standardization of your field matters. I don't know if OMFS is going in the right direction for the latter.

Why/how would an applicant with a <55 cbse and bottom of the class as you described have a leg up over other qualified applicants at your program

 

[Van Der Woude]

soft skills. connections. the "PD" like the way he spoke. thats it.

 

[mangler]

Doesn't seem that unfair tbh. Your PD has interviewed hundreds of applicants. I'm sure he knows there's not too much correlation between being a book nerd with a high CBSE and a strong surgical resident either.

 

[Van Der Woude]

My PD looks very disappointed when you ask that guy anything medically related or OMFS related. almost as if he is questioning his decision since the guy can't read a book.

not like we have to pick up his slack or deal with the BS that comes with it when safety gets thrown out the window.

regardless: take care. we will agree to disagree.

 

[gryffindor]

The field is changing. Academic OMFS is still pushing MD integrated programs. $$, time, and location are taking an effect.

The standardization of 6 year programs also makes it more academically challenging to obtain especially those in competitive locations. NOLA and Shreveport, while amazing OMFS programs, are definitely less desirable locations as most people live on the east/west coast and those places are hard to transplant. They have a great culture though. Most of the Midwest culture is intelligent transplants. Coastal "competitive" med schools have higher CBSE score requirements which eliminates most dental students but also are more expensive and have more med school requirements and less OMFS experience.

Most dental schools don't teach people "medical school" medicine. I for one believe most medical school is self taught but whatever.

4 year programs are competitive and people with great academics flock to them instead of 6 year programs because $$$ and time. However, not everyone who matches into a 4 year spot is a good academic candidate. I've seen bottom half of the class and <55 cbse match into 4 year spots. Those with no externships and out of GPRs without any internship experience.

Its 100% unfair and spits in the face of real applicants who interned in your hospital, learned your system, and put the work in to travel for externships and not sleep all night just to take some general dentist or dental student with worse grades because they "fit" your programs desire for that year's class.

I went the 6 year route. At the end of the day: 4 year guys entering private practice and not staying in academics are still dentists to the majority of people. There is no standardization amongst them. Some of them are amazing surgeons, don't get me wrong. but some aren't.

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not. There are ****ty dentists. Just like there are ****ty OMS. And it grows tiring explaining LINRIC scores, head and neck spaces, how blood flows in the body, leg compartments and having to deal with made up medicine.

In my residency, I call out my sedation meds. Nurse pushes. The attending is not in the room until the case is almost done in 15 minutes. I cover a children's hospital and get all the kid facial trauma from 3 states. I cover a private hospital and see all the heart transplant patients. I then go to the tertiary care state funded center and see all the GSWs.

The program you go to matters. Your experience matters. The standardization of your field matters. I don't know if OMFS is going in the right direction for the latter.

Interesting. I had not thought about the debt side of things. Four years of dental school is now outrageously expensive at so many places. I can see how adding 2 more years of medical school tuition doesn't sound attractive anymore. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Ivy.ch]

1. Indiana: In-Person - 10/25 & 10/28 - Call June
2. UF Jacksonville - 10/29 & 11/5 - email
3. Henry Ford - 10/24 & 10/25 - email
4. Case Western - 10/4 - email

DM me if you need any travel tips or a pep talk

 

[HockeyDocOMFS]

Oh god, here we go again with the 4 vs 6 debacle 🥱

There are good 4 year programs and good 6 year programs. Choose the best program and the one that fits your goals. Culture, scope, and location are usually the top 3 most important things for applicants.

Statistically, 6 year program residents will have higher test scores and that’s because medical schools need them to be able to pass step 1. 4 year programs also tend to have more applicants overall due to many factors. Which is more competitive? Who knows and who cares. Both are competitive in their own unique ways.

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

Oh god, here we go again with the 4 vs 6 debacle 🥱

There are good 4 year programs and good 6 year programs. Choose the best program and the one that fits your goals. Culture, scope, and location are usually the top 3 most important things for applicants.

Statistically, 6 year program residents will have higher test scores and that’s because medical schools need them to be able to pass step 1. 4 year programs also tend to have more applicants overall due to many factors. Which is more competitive? Who knows and who cares. Both are competitive in their own unique ways.

Anecdotal, but I got less 4 years and more 6 year interviews with an “average score” on the trail last year and I applied roughly to 70-80% 4 years and the remainder was 6 years.

 

[HockeyDocOMFS]

Anecdotal, but I got less 4 years and more 6 year interviews with an “average score” on the trail last year and I applied roughly to 70-80% 4 years and the remainder was 6 years.

And I’ve heard of others who had the complete opposite experience happen to them. Who cares

 

[J-stripper]

1. Indiana: In-Person - 10/25 & 10/28 - Call June
2. UF Jacksonville - 10/29 & 11/5 - email
3. Henry Ford - 10/24 & 10/25 - email
4. Case Western - 10/4 - email
5. Oklahoma - 10/19 - email 9/10

 

[OMFSW]

The field is changing. Academic OMFS is still pushing MD integrated programs. $$, time, and location are taking an effect.

The standardization of 6 year programs also makes it more academically challenging to obtain especially those in competitive locations. NOLA and Shreveport, while amazing OMFS programs, are definitely less desirable locations as most people live on the east/west coast and those places are hard to transplant. They have a great culture though. Most of the Midwest culture is intelligent transplants. Coastal "competitive" med schools have higher CBSE score requirements which eliminates most dental students but also are more expensive and have more med school requirements and less OMFS experience.

Most dental schools don't teach people "medical school" medicine. I for one believe most medical school is self taught but whatever.

4 year programs are competitive and people with great academics flock to them instead of 6 year programs because $$$ and time. However, not everyone who matches into a 4 year spot is a good academic candidate. I've seen bottom half of the class and <55 cbse match into 4 year spots. Those with no externships and out of GPRs without any internship experience.

Its 100% unfair and spits in the face of real applicants who interned in your hospital, learned your system, and put the work in to travel for externships and not sleep all night just to take some general dentist or dental student with worse grades because they "fit" your programs desire for that year's class.

I went the 6 year route. At the end of the day: 4 year guys entering private practice and not staying in academics are still dentists to the majority of people. There is no standardization amongst them. Some of them are amazing surgeons, don't get me wrong. but some aren't.

Will 4 and 6 still have the same OMS cert and do the same things? Yes. Does that mean we have the same standards: absolutely not. There are ****ty dentists. Just like there are ****ty OMS. And it grows tiring explaining LINRIC scores, head and neck spaces, how blood flows in the body, leg compartments and having to deal with made up medicine.

In my residency, I call out my sedation meds. Nurse pushes. The attending is not in the room until the case is almost done in 15 minutes. I cover a children's hospital and get all the kid facial trauma from 3 states. I cover a private hospital and see all the heart transplant patients. I then go to the tertiary care state funded center and see all the GSWs.

The program you go to matters. Your experience matters. The standardization of your field matters. I don't know if OMFS is going in the right direction for the latter.

Also consider that many applicants actively avoid programs with heavy head and neck services. Both programs you mentioned do a significant amount of head and neck. I know it was a big no for me. And speaking to other residents many regret exposure to it in comparison to wishing they had more exposure to it.

 

[Van Der Woude]

Also consider that many applicants actively avoid programs with heavy head and neck services. Both programs you mentioned do a significant amount of head and neck. I know it was a big no for me. And speaking to other residents many regret exposure to it in comparison to wishing they had more exposure to it.

Its not even that bad. Nurses split the flap checks with you. If your service doesn't do the flap you aren't even on flap check duty. There is 4-6 non-cats who are there with you so you aren't doing q1h flap checks for 1 week straight and the flap check timing protocols eventually de-escalate and they leave in 1 week.

What's worse, the feeling of not matching and "wasting" another 2 years being a suck up at a program that mistreats you and didn't take you from the start or chilling with people your own age in medical school?

Your attending does most of the procedure in the majority of these places and offers good guidance in minimizing complications. when will you ever have that opportunity again?

the only issue has been living in a place you don't have family for 6 years and giving up 2 years of income and 2-3 years of tuition. Thats the trade off. its hard to convince people who have never had $$$ to do that.

I just think most applicants are kept in the dark about the other side. some programs won't take you unless you are from an ivy league. some programs wont take you if you don't fit their "mold". Its better to apply broadly, extern at cancer programs, etc.

 

[OMFSW]

Its not even that bad. Nurses split the flap checks with you. If your service doesn't do the flap you aren't even on flap check duty. There is 4-6 non-cats who are there with you so you aren't doing q1h flap checks for 1 week straight and the flap check timing protocols eventually de-escalate.

What's worse, the feeling of not matching and "wasting" another 2 years being a suck up at a program that mistreats you and didn't take you from the start or chilling with people your own age in medical school?

Your attending does most of the procedure in the majority of these places and offers good guidance in minimizing complications. when will you ever have that opportunity again?

the only issue has been living in a place you don't have family for 6 years and giving up 2 years of income and 2-3 years of tuition. Thats the trade off. its hard to convince people who have never had $$$ to do that.

I just think most applicants are kept in the dark about the other side. some programs won't take you unless you are from an ivy league. some programs wont take you if you don't fit their "mold". Its better to apply broadly, extern at cancer programs, etc.

Still sounds like a waste of time to me

 

[omsorbust]

Its not even that bad. Nurses split the flap checks with you. If your service doesn't do the flap you aren't even on flap check duty. There is 4-6 non-cats who are there with you so you aren't doing q1h flap checks for 1 week straight and the flap check timing protocols eventually de-escalate and they leave in 1 week.

What's worse, the feeling of not matching and "wasting" another 2 years being a suck up at a program that mistreats you and didn't take you from the start or chilling with people your own age in medical school?

Your attending does most of the procedure in the majority of these places and offers good guidance in minimizing complications. when will you ever have that opportunity again?

the only issue has been living in a place you don't have family for 6 years and giving up 2 years of income and 2-3 years of tuition. Thats the trade off. its hard to convince people who have never had $$$ to do that.

I just think most applicants are kept in the dark about the other side. some programs won't take you unless you are from an ivy league. some programs wont take you if you don't fit their "mold". Its better to apply broadly, extern at cancer programs, etc.

Can you DM me so I can ask you a question

 

[D1Bound]

i've seen the applicants for our 4 year spots stats vs our 6 year spot stats. the latter hold themselves to a higher academic standard at the bare minimum. Our program also likes non-cats for both spots. clinically we are great at both for the "dental" portion.

but you spent 5 years in residency? you shoulda just done the +1 year for the MD outa school at that rate homie. I know tons of 4 year guys with internships and 4 year attendings (guys in private practice and the leadership around the country) who feel the same way.

money blinds people though. if you had the grades for it and didn't get the MD. money is almost always the reason why.

Clinically are you both great at the dental portion? GPs all the time complain about OMS screwing up implant placement. 4 vs 6, it’s all going to come down to the individual provider. I suppose you could look at the board pass rates as a measurement. Slightly different category altogether but military OMS is primarily 4 year trained and we have excellent board pass rates. Many have done AEGDs and worked as a GP for a year.

 

[jeemy99]

1. Indiana: In-Person - 10/25 & 10/28 - Call June
2. UF Jacksonville - 10/29 & 11/5 - email
3. Henry Ford - 10/24 & 10/25 - email
4. Case Western - 10/4 - email
5. Oklahoma - 10/19 - email 9/10
6. UCSF - 11/1 - email 9/12

 

[c.s.Snarl]

How is everyone prepping for interviews? Has anyone found a good thread/link with commonly asked questions on the interview trail specific to OMS? Outside of the generic stuff. A resident at a program I externed at mentioned that their director asks you to run through a R/B/A presentation for thirds as if he was the patient. Any other specific questions anyone has heard about?

 

[Maxillofacial Surgeon]

How is everyone prepping for interviews? Has anyone found a good thread/link with commonly asked questions on the interview trail specific to OMS? Outside of the generic stuff. A resident at a program I externed at mentioned that their director asks you to run through a R/B/A presentation for thirds as if he was the patient. Any other specific questions anyone has heard about?

There's no real way to prepare. Mock interviews with faculty members would be helpful, but any question can be fair game. Some places will try to test your knowledge, some will just try to see what kind of person you are. Just be truthful and honest, and you will be rewarded for it more often than not. At the end of the day, it's about how well you fit the program's definition of what they want their resident to be, and that varies significantly on a school-by-school level. Mock interviews would be nice because it'll help you realize what questions you don't know the answers to. Ontop of this, if you did 6 year, keep in mind that med school interviews will be significantly different than OMS interviews.

 

[Masterus]

Man, the conversations repeat every year. Oral oncology is going to be standardized among a large portion of OMFS programs in the next coming decade or two decades and maybe eventually most of them. There is a paper that shows all oral oncology referrals come from general dentists. That is how omfs has grown to so many programs doing it through rerouting the general dentist referral to the oral surgeon and it the ENT. Sorry, you may not be interested in it but it does make you a better surgeon at the end of the day. If the field overall gets stronger, that is a win.

If you don’t understand why oral surgeons should be doing oral oncology or exposed to it, feel free to DM me or ask. Everyone who has been exposed to it has felt they have gained something from those cases. It is actually crazy how low surgical airway experience is across the board for a specialty that claims to be surgeons and expected to be able to manage airway complications.

In terms of 4 vs 6, it is preference. 6 year programs tend to have stronger research, academic presence, respect in the hospital, on average more programs with wider scope, opportunity for fellowship (they will always rank a 6 over a 4), ability to have a mid level like a PA which can generate income for you and assist in the OR, marketability of an extra degree in certain regions. Advantages of a 4 year is you get to finish 2 years earlier which means earlier earning potential which is a heavy draw for people.

In my opinion, the strongest 6 year programs are stronger than the strongest 4 year programs but there are a lot of mid and weak programs for both. Unless you go to one of the strongest 6 years (the top graduates from those are beasts in academia and private practice), your training between 4 and 6 won’t make a crazy difference.

 

[toothwizzy2]

Anyone who applied to Nova 6yr know if there is a supplemental application/fee? It is mentioned on the PASS program finder but I cant seem to find anything on their website.

 

[LeFort_1]

Anyone who applied to Nova 6yr know if there is a supplemental application/fee? It is mentioned on the PASS program finder but I cant seem to find anything on their website.

I think you have to create an account on their website and apply to the program through that as well. There is supplemental fee at the end of application.

 

[LeFort_1]

I wasn't able to find the supplemental application for Loyola. I only saw on PASS program finder that it is marked as "YES" for supplemental application. Does anyone know where to locate it?

 

[FosterWallace]

I think you have to create an account on their website and apply to the program through that as well. There is supplemental fee at the end of application.

did someone from the program tell you this? and can you link it?

 

[TrueOMS]

Figured I’d post the unmatched list from last year for everyoneView attachment 391833View attachment 391834

Remember. If you guys have an access to unmatched spots over years, you will know why applicants are actively avoiding certain programs and not ranking specific programs. If you do enough research and look up threads on SDN, you will know which programs to avoid. Avoid programs that

-do too much cancer
-make their residents extremely unhappy
-have very malignant faculties
-kick residents out frequently rather than turning them into good residents through proper training. Some programs make their residents resign because kicking them out can cause a lot of HR drama and lawsuit issues

think twice about those programs that you posted above

A lot of rumors that you will hear, stories from externs, tales from old red shirts and gossips that you read on SDN are real. Go somewhere that you will be happy for 4 to 6 years.

Does anyone want to share unmatched spots from 2022 and 2021?

 

[dentpinned]

I wasn't able to find the supplemental application for Loyola. I only saw on PASS program finder that it is marked as "YES" for supplemental application. Does anyone know where to locate it?

There isn't one.

 

[Van Der Woude]

Remember. If you guys have an access to unmatched spots over years, you will know why applicants are actively avoiding certain programs and not ranking specific programs. If you do enough research and look up threads on SDN, you will know which programs to avoid. Avoid programs that

-do too much cancer
-make their residents extremely unhappy
-have very malignant faculties
-kick residents out frequently rather than turning them into good residents through proper training. Some programs make their residents resign because kicking them out can cause a lot of HR drama and lawsuit issues

think twice about those programs that you posted above

A lot of rumors that you will hear, stories from externs, tales from old red shirts and gossips that you read on SDN are real. Go somewhere that you will be happy for 4 to 6 years.

Does anyone want to share unmatched spots from 2022 and 2021?

if you as a resident show up on time, do your very job, and don't do drugs, I swear to you: you will survive these cancer programs. everyone is super nice, knowledgeable, and professional.

some programs are malignant and don't do cancer and put you on call for 36 hours straight as a non-cat and still won't take you because of intangibles outside of your control.

 

[stealyoface]

How is everyone prepping for interviews? Has anyone found a good thread/link with commonly asked questions on the interview trail specific to OMS? Outside of the generic stuff. A resident at a program I externed at mentioned that their director asks you to run through a R/B/A presentation for thirds as if he was the patient. Any other specific questions anyone has heard about?

I’ll give you some advice. Be cool and normal. Have answers to the classics like “why omfs?” “Strengths and weaknesses?” “Why our program?” etc. But show some personality and don’t just robotically rattle off answers. This will go a long way. Show interest and general omfs knowledge but really show them that you’re a normal/cool/fun person. They’re looking for people that are dependable and will be enjoyable to be around for 4-6 years

 

[omsorbust]

anyone know where to pay the fee for UAB?

 

[dentpinned]

anyone know where to pay the fee for UAB?

It was REALLY hard to find.... go here How to Apply - School of Dentistry click make payment and then choose your program.

 

[Omfswizzy]

anyone know where to pay the fee for UAB?

Was this requested by the program?

 

[James Trickington]

Hello all,

Current resident at Rochester General Hospital OMFS. (4 year, 2 spots)

I figured since we’re a recent startup I can give some insight on the program for prospective candidates.

Experience so far: Excellent. Program director and attendings have been a pleasure to work with and learn from. Currently we have 2 full time attendings and 2 part time, varying levels of training and experience which is nice. Scope of practice includes heavy dentoalveolar, orthognathic, TMJ, benign path, & cosmetics. Perks of a startup - clinical experience early and often. As first years we cut or are first assist for all OR cases, all clinic sedations (plenty of thirds and implants). It’s a unique experience that is only possible at a new program.

Call schedule: Level 3 trauma center. We take face + tooth call 24/7 365. We do have a good working relationship with our GPR colleagues who field lower acuity tooth calls. Currently we do Q3 (2 cats, 1 non-cat) and take ~1 week at a time. No complaints with our call.

Didactics: Frequent lectures from attendings and adjunct OMFS/orthodontists/pathologists. Focus has been on clinical application of topics and boards preparation.

Location: Rochester, NY. Everything you could need in the city/surrounding area is a 15-20 min drive away, minimal traffic. Underrated food city. Plenty of nice places to live closer to the city and in surrounding suburbs. Lots to do socially: outdoor activities, good bar/brewery scene, decent concert venues nearby, etc. Yes, it does get cold, and it does snow, but no it’s not that bad.

Overall, for those interested in the 4-year track RGH has a lot to offer. If you have any interest in joining a program with good culture and plenty of opportunity to learn/grow, please apply.

Any questions, feel free to message me.

Best of luck to everyone!

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Man, the conversations repeat every year. Oral oncology is going to be standardized among a large portion of OMFS programs in the next coming decade or two decades and maybe eventually most of them. There is a paper that shows all oral oncology referrals come from general dentists. That is how omfs has grown to so many programs doing it through rerouting the general dentist referral to the oral surgeon and it the ENT. Sorry, you ma be interested in it but it does make you a better surgeon at the end of the day. If the field overall gets stronger, that is a win.

If you don’t understand why oral surgeons should be doing oral oncology or exposed to it, feel free to DM me or ask. Everyone who has been exposed to it has felt they have gained something from those cases. It is actually crazy how low surgical airway experience is across the board for a specialty that claims to be surgeons and expected to be able to manage airway complications.

In terms of 4 vs 6, it is preference. 6 year programs tend to have stronger research, academic presence, respect in the hospital, on average more programs with wider scope, opportunity for fellowship (they will always rank a 6 over a 4), ability to have a mid level like a PA which can generate income for you and assist in the OR, marketability of an extra degree in certain regions. Advantages of a 4 year is you get to finish 2 years earlier which means earlier earning potential which is a heavy draw for people.

In my opinion, the strongest 6 year programs are stronger than the strongest 4 year programs but there are a lot of mid and weak programs for both. Unless you go to one of the strongest 6 years (the top graduates from those are beasts in academia and private practice), your training between 4 and 6 won’t make a crazy differe

Man, the conversations repeat every year. Oral oncology is going to be standardized among a large portion of OMFS programs in the next coming decade or two decades and maybe eventually most of them. There is a paper that shows all oral oncology referrals come from general dentists. That is how omfs has grown to so many programs doing it through rerouting the general dentist referral to the oral surgeon and it the ENT. Sorry, you may not be interested in it but it does make you a better surgeon at the end of the day. If the field overall gets stronger, that is a win.

If you don’t understand why oral surgeons should be doing oral oncology or exposed to it, feel free to DM me or ask. Everyone who has been exposed to it has felt they have gained something from those cases. It is actually crazy how low surgical airway experience is across the board for a specialty that claims to be surgeons and expected to be able to manage airway complications.

In terms of 4 vs 6, it is preference. 6 year programs tend to have stronger research, academic presence, respect in the hospital, on average more programs with wider scope, opportunity for fellowship (they will always rank a 6 over a 4), ability to have a mid level like a PA which can generate income for you and assist in the OR, marketability of an extra degree in certain regions. Advantages of a 4 year is you get to finish 2 years earlier which means earlier earning potential which is a heavy draw for people.

In my opinion, the strongest 6 year programs are stronger than the strongest 4 year programs but there are a lot of mid and weak programs for both. Unless you go to one of the strongest 6 years (the top graduates from those are beasts in academia and private practice), your training between 4 and 6 won’t make a crazy difference.

I concur. I think flap checks, trachs, and ICU care make a lot of people nervous. Taking care of cancer patients has a lot more pros than cons. Your hands will be significantly better if you have that exposure at a program because you’ll learn how to do surgical airways, you’ll see every bit of head and neck anatomy and how to stay within proper surgical planes, you’ll sew A LOT, you’ll develop the finesse it requires to ligate vessels and assist microsurgery, and your comfort level in transcervical approaches goes up by a lot.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Remember. If you guys have an access to unmatched spots over years, you will know why applicants are actively avoiding certain programs and not ranking specific programs. If you do enough research and look up threads on SDN, you will know which programs to avoid. Avoid programs that

-do too much cancer
-make their residents extremely unhappy
-have very malignant faculties
-kick residents out frequently rather than turning them into good residents through proper training. Some programs make their residents resign because kicking them out can cause a lot of HR drama and lawsuit issues

think twice about those programs that you posted above

A lot of rumors that you will hear, stories from externs, tales from old red shirts and gossips that you read on SDN are real. Go somewhere that you will be happy for 4 to 6 years.

Does anyone want to share unmatched spots from 2022 and 2021?

Everyone’s definition of “too much cancer” is different. The rest of your list is true.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Hit me up if you have any questions about Michigan.