Official Diploma Mill List

[owlegrad]

I agree. So we can agree that your diploma mill school should be closed b/c it's not the most highly ranked pharmacy school in your state?

Oh, snap!

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[owlegrad]

You just need something to differentiate yourself from the other applicants. As long as you went to at least a top 69 stripping/gigoloing school, you should be fine. You won't need to put your GPA on your CV but there are some other...um....measurements that might belong there.

In all seriousness though, what do strippers do to put themselves through school?

 

[SHC1984]

We do the same things as folks at the main campus and everyone applies together - no separate application process. The only difference is where we take our exams. Again almost everything is the same as main campus, we just take our exams/labs/etc at our individual campuses.

Okay, then how would UF decide who gets to be in their main campus and who gets to be in the satellite campus? I mean do they just accept an X amount of students and then randomly put people into satellite campus or main campus? Did you get to choose were you wanted to be place at?

 

[SHC1984]

I agree. So we can agree that your diploma mill school should be closed b/c it's not the most highly ranked pharmacy school in your state?

The school I go to isn't a diploma mill. Most people in Georgia regard Mercer and UGA to be the same in quality. They both have been around for over 100 years. (South and PCOM sucks though) I have the stats to get into UGA, but I wanted to live with my aunt for free so I went to Mercer. Also the fact that I am from out of state made Mercer's tuition the same as UGA's for me.

Although some people told me I should have just waited a year and applied to my state school UNC, but I am already too damn old to wait any longer. I definetly would not attend any diploma mill schools on the list in this thread.

 

[owlegrad]

Okay, then how would UF decide who gets to be in their main campus and who gets to be in the satellite campus? I mean do they just accept an X amount of students and then randomly put people into satellite campus or main campus? Did you get to choose were you wanted to be place at?

There is a ranking scheet for you fill out what your preference is. If you don't get your first pick campus, it is your choice wether or not you still want to attend. You interview at the campus you will attend. Transfers between campuses are very rare.

 

[SHC1984]

There is a ranking scheet for you fill out what your preference is. If you don't get your first pick campus, it is your choice wether or not you still want to attend. You interview at the campus you will attend. Transfers between campuses are very rare.

I see, so are most people trying to get into the main campus? is the reputation of one campus better than another? or are they pretty much the same in terms of reputation? Did you put your campus location down on your CV?

 

[owlegrad]

I see, so are most people trying to get into the main campus? is the reputation of one campus better than another? or are they pretty much the same in terms of reputation? Did you put your campus location down on your CV?

It's a mix. A lot of ppl who did undergrad at UCF put Orlando as their preference campus because UCF is in Orlando. Same with some of the other campuses, people who live in those areas put the campus that is closest to them. Many ppl do pick the main campus as their prefernce also. The down side to not going to the main campus is the lack of student health centers, and lack of "main campus" student life. (you know, college town type stuff)

Reputation is the same, I don't distinguish on my CV.

 

[Celticspride58]

I have been going through here and seen quite a bith of bashing against D'Youville.. and lets be honest I am sure that I will have a bias after going to the school and being interviewed I was impressed. It seems like most of you on here who are putting them down are only basing it on the fact that they advertise and make fun of the name of the school. D'Youville is actually quite established as a school in other majors, and are moving in the right direction with pharmacy. I will agree with some posters on here by their def. of what a diplmoa mill is, but it seems that people are basing their judgement on weak facts. I wish I didn't even see this thread and get sucked in, but regardless of where I go to pharmacy school, I wont be worried about where it ranks on this list, more what I learn and what I will do with my degree will be important. This thread seems somewhat odd to me for the basic fact that we ALL on here in this particular section of the forum are wishing to be, or already are pharmacists. We should be happy/ supportive for EVERYONE and ANYONE who is willing enough to put themselves out there and post and say where they are going to school. All this ends up doing is makes perspective readers less ambitious to join or for that matter show their school pride in fear what people may say. If I or ANYONE else chooses to go to D'Youville and we then obtain our degrees and become certified, we are all again in one giant community of pharmacists. Being surrounded by many pharmaicst and knowing many first hand, regardless of where they obtained their degree they have been granted the knowledge and skills to be practicing pharmacists.

Instead of bashing or pointing out schools that are on this so called "Diploma Mill" list, would it hurt to realize that we are supposed to be a joined community?

 

[pharm B]

If I or ANYONE else chooses to go to D'Youville and we then obtain our degrees and become certified, we are all again in one giant community of pharmacists.

I think this is exactly the point many are trying to make. We're one giant community with a growth problem. Some of us want to either limit the growth or let loose the wolves to keep it in check.

The wolves aren't a metaphor. I mean it literally.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The school I go to isn't a diploma mill. Most people in Georgia regard Mercer and UGA to be the same in quality. They both have been around for over 100 years. (South and PCOM sucks though) I have the stats to get into UGA, but I wanted to live with my aunt for free so I went to Mercer. Also the fact that I am from out of state made Mercer's tuition the same as UGA's for me.

Although some people told me I should have just waited a year and applied to my state school UNC, but I am already too damn old to wait any longer. I definetly would not attend any diploma mill schools on the list in this thread.

Nope, sorry. You said one per state. That means your school is O U T. It's much less highly ranked than UGA. I'm sorry you chose poorly when you picked your school.

 

[PharmD RPh]

Celticspride58;10474813]I have been going through here and seen quite a bith of bashing against D'Youville.. and lets be honest I am sure that I will have a bias after going to the school and being interviewed I was impressed.

Never heard of this school nor do I know anything about it, but I do admire the fact that you're not afraid to take up for it since I've seen it bashed. My first impression is that I have no idea how to say "D'Youville" and it sounds like a school Lil Wayne created.

It seems like most of you on here who are putting them down are only basing it on the fact that they advertise and make fun of the name of the school. D'Youville is actually quite established as a school in other majors, and are moving in the right direction with pharmacy. I will agree with some posters on here by their def. of what a diplmoa mill is, but it seems that people are basing their judgement on weak facts. I wish I didn't even see this thread and get sucked in, but regardless of where I go to pharmacy school, I wont be worried about where it ranks on this list, more what I learn and what I will do with my degree will be important.

Some people on here, myself included would argue that by attending such a program that doesn't seem well regarded, you are already limiting what you can do with your degree you obtain from that school.

This thread seems somewhat odd to me for the basic fact that we ALL on here in this particular section of the forum are wishing to be, or already are pharmacists. We should be happy/ supportive for EVERYONE and ANYONE who is willing enough to put themselves out there and post and say where they are going to school.

I think the point of this thread is to point out to future pharmacists the reputation that some of the "diploma mill" schools have out in the field so that students will be better informed on where to try to attend school. Again, you'll get views from both sides on here from people saying the school you attended doesn't matter while others such as myself believe it does play a factor especially when in a tough job market.

All this ends up doing is makes perspective readers less ambitious to join or for that matter show their school pride in fear what people may say. If I or ANYONE else chooses to go to D'Youville and we then obtain our degrees and become certified, we are all again in one giant community of pharmacists. Being surrounded by many pharmaicst and knowing many first hand, regardless of where they obtained their degree they have been granted the knowledge and skills to be practicing pharmacists.

Instead of bashing or pointing out schools that are on this so called "Diploma Mill" list, would it hurt to realize that we are supposed to be a joined community?

You mean licensed? There is a camaraderie amongst pharmacists, but lets look at this scenario. You attend, graduate and get licensed as a pharmacist at D'Youville. However, when you graduate and incur over 100K in debt, there are no jobs because so many schools have opened and flooded the market with pharmacists. You are 1 out of 50 applicants interviewing for 1 spot. If that were me, I'd be extremely angry. Now you might understand why a lot of people in this forum feel the way they do. Personally I'm not against expansion and opening of new schools as long is its done to keep up with market conditions and needs. Uncontrolled expansion is bad for everyone. And I'll continue to argue that in a market like we are right now, everything you can do to distinguish yourself from other applicants needs to be done... whether that's attending one of highest ranked pharmd programs, have a 4.0 GPA, doing research, having more experience, getting an MBA etc.etc.etc. you gotta do it if you want a job.

 

[Celticspride58]

PharmD RPh

I do see your points that were made throughout.

I feel that arrogance is conveyed however that you say Lil Wayne created the school because you don't know how to say it. That was the point I was trying to make, people are putting it down because they are unfamiliar with such?

I feel that maybe my posts should be avoided and ignored then in regards to your furthur points. I work at a pharmacy currently, family owned, and regardless of where I am to go I have already worked out a deal with the owner to be contracted for when I am done and licensed to work there. I say that with as little ignorance or cockiness as possible. I do truthfully feel that maybe I have a jaded view of how the job market will be since I am blessed enough with having such an opportunity.

The very last point you made about the applying for a job, I feel brings up a valid situation. Maybe my optimism leads me to belive that a situation as such will never occur even though recent stats say otherwise. As much as I would love to sit here and say everyone is going to have an easy time job finding a job, I try to bring reality into the picture and know that it certainly could happen.

The last point I will make in favor of D'Youville is their staff and roation possiblities. The faculty is quite impressive, or to me at least seemed that way. And the IPPE's that were available were right on par with the locations that UB had.

At the end of the day its only my opinion as is everyone elses on here, and I respect each of yours. I just take offense and feel others will when working so hard to get into pharmacy school, and then in turn see it on this "mill" list being bashed for reasons like, "I've never heard or can pronounce" reasons. To be quite honest, being from the Norh East, there are a handful of schools that many consider elite across the country that I was not so familiar with.

 

[PharmD RPh]

PharmD RPh

I do see your points that were made throughout.

I feel that arrogance is conveyed however that you say Lil Wayne created the school because you don't know how to say it. That was the point I was trying to make, people are putting it down because they are unfamiliar with such?

I feel that maybe my posts should be avoided and ignored then in regards to your furthur points. I work at a pharmacy currently, family owned, and regardless of where I am to go I have already worked out a deal with the owner to be contracted for when I am done and licensed to work there. I say that with as little ignorance or cockiness as possible. I do truthfully feel that maybe I have a jaded view of how the job market will be since I am blessed enough with having such an opportunity.

The very last point you made about the applying for a job, I feel brings up a valid situation. Maybe my optimism leads me to belive that a situation as such will never occur even though recent stats say otherwise. As much as I would love to sit here and say everyone is going to have an easy time job finding a job, I try to bring reality into the picture and know that it certainly could happen.

The last point I will make in favor of D'Youville is their staff and roation possiblities. The faculty is quite impressive, or to me at least seemed that way. And the IPPE's that were available were right on par with the locations that UB had.

At the end of the day its only my opinion as is everyone elses on here, and I respect each of yours. I just take offense and feel others will when working so hard to get into pharmacy school, and then in turn see it on this "mill" list being bashed for reasons like, "I've never heard or can pronounce" reasons. To be quite honest, being from the Norh East, there are a handful of schools that many consider elite across the country that I was not so familiar with.

Sorry if I offended you, just giving honest to goodness first impressions since I have no clue where that school is, but I am a big fan of Lil Wayne... make fun of me all you want.

Most people aren't fortunate enough to have that opportunity and when I went into pharmacy I went into it wanting to own my own store as well. In this part of the country you almost have to do that in smaller towns where chains haven't penetrated the market. I have seen over the years a number of small independents go under too and sell out their files to chains. Not to say that applies to your situation at all because I have no clue where you live or what market conditions are in your part of the country.

As far as the "diploma mill" term... I think this came up because of all the influx in opening of schools that we've seen recently.... there's some good journal articles on it and I don't have the exact stats, but the growth we've seen in # of schools opening over the past 5 years has been unprecedented and cause for concern. Even if you have a job, think about it this way... Supply and demand. Take iPhones for example. The new iPhone is released and cutting edge. Everyone wants it. Demand is high, supply is low. You get one for $300, but check eBay and see that you can sell if for $1000. Compare this to salaries. Supply is high, demand is low and salary may decrease significantly in this scenario, but no one knows for sure just what that might be. We're kinda in gray areas. Again, sorry to poke fun at the name, but you have to admit, its a little unusual.

 

[SHC1984]

Nope, sorry. You said one per state. That means your school is O U T. It's much less highly ranked than UGA. I'm sorry you chose poorly when you picked your school.

Hell, you might be right. I also had several people told me to wait a year for UNC since my stats were high enough for them too. I guess that would have been a better move on my part? UNC is #2 and Mercer is #30 I believe. I don't know what UGA is.

In all seriousness though, I would not mind them closing my school down and only have ONE school per state...if they do that I would just apply to UNC next year and go there. I mean that sounds worth it to me bc one school per state will really help with the saturation problem we are having. I am sure you would much rather have one school per state too!

 

[PharmD RPh]

Hell, you might be right. I also had several people told me to wait a year for UNC since my stats were high enough for them too. I guess that would have been a better move on my part? UNC is #2 and Mercer is #30 I believe. I don't know what UGA is.

I think this can go back to the whole regional thing with knowing reputations in your state or region. Top 30 isn't bad. Bottom 30 is.

 

[SHC1984]

I think this can go back to the whole regional thing with knowing reputations in your state or region. Top 30 isn't bad. Bottom 30 is.

I think anything Top 50 is good...and there really needs to be about 50 schools in this country. There are only 52 dental schools in this country. 50 schools in this country averages to be one school per state. The location of the actual school do not matter but one school per state sounds about enough to meet the demand without any surpluses we are seeing today.

 

[Celticspride58]

Sorry if I offended you, just giving honest to goodness first impressions since I have no clue where that school is, but I am a big fan of Lil Wayne... make fun of me all you want.

Most people aren't fortunate enough to have that opportunity and when I went into pharmacy I went into it wanting to own my own store as well. In this part of the country you almost have to do that in smaller towns where chains haven't penetrated the market. I have seen over the years a number of small independents go under too and sell out their files to chains. Not to say that applies to your situation at all because I have no clue where you live or what market conditions are in your part of the country.

As far as the "diploma mill" term... I think this came up because of all the influx in opening of schools that we've seen recently.... there's some good journal articles on it and I don't have the exact stats, but the growth we've seen in # of schools opening over the past 5 years has been unprecedented and cause for concern. Even if you have a job, think about it this way... Supply and demand. Take iPhones for example. The new iPhone is released and cutting edge. Everyone wants it. Demand is high, supply is low. You get one for $300, but check eBay and see that you can sell if for $1000. Compare this to salaries. Supply is high, demand is low and salary may decrease significantly in this scenario, but no one knows for sure just what that might be. We're kinda in gray areas. Again, sorry to poke fun at the name, but you have to admit, its a little unusual.

Lil Wayne is my man don't get me wrong I love him, but lets be honest thats not too much of a compliment to a school haha.

Yes, I agree the name of the school may be different, but like I said there are some schools on here that I havent heard of that others call quite elite.

You didn't offend me at all, I may not even attend there based on how else everything goes, I just find these newer schools get the crap end of the deal when it comes to people bashing them sometimes. I could see if there was a true premise, like failing to get accred. after years, or students transferring out after x amount of years. I don't know.. I didn't create the school but I just saw the time, effort, and money they were putting into trying to make it a great program and I respect hard work like that.

Nobody needs to apologize on here though, , thats the beauty of a site like this. You get to see different sides.

Even though I didn't agree with some earlier posts by everyone including yours, ha, I do agree with certain points.

 

[PharmD RPh]

Lil Wayne is my man don't get me wrong I love him, but lets be honest thats not too much of a compliment to a school haha.

Yes, I agree the name of the school may be different, but like I said there are some schools on here that I havent heard of that others call quite elite.

You didn't offend me at all, I may not even attend there based on how else everything goes, I just find these newer schools get the crap end of the deal when it comes to people bashing them sometimes. I could see if there was a true premise, like failing to get accred. after years, or students transferring out after x amount of years. I don't know.. I didn't create the school but I just saw the time, effort, and money they were putting into trying to make it a great program and I respect hard work like that.

Nobody needs to apologize on here though, , thats the beauty of a site like this. You get to see different sides.

Even though I didn't agree with some earlier posts by everyone including yours, ha, I do agree with certain points.

I think you'll see similar issues in most major medical professions. Heck, just the other day I was talking with a medical resident that was bashing Caribbean medical schools and osteopathic programs. I don't want to turn this thread into bashing those types of programs, but you'll see it across all disciplines of healthcare. Nursing has even recently fallen victim as well with crazy amounts of schools opening and I know some nurses complaining about all these "shady" nursing programs.

APhA and I think ASHP have recently published journal articles asking for a reassessment of the current man power demands needed for the pharmacy field. Last time they looked at the amount of pharmacists needed for the future, no one took into account this crappy economy we're in and I think they also assumed the role of the pharmacist would continue to grow. Even with what they estimated, we have way overshot that estimate and all the schools need to back down a little bit.

 

[SHC1984]

I think you'll see similar issues in most major medical professions. Heck, just the other day I was talking with a medical resident that was bashing Caribbean medical schools and osteopathic programs. I don't want to turn this thread into bashing those types of programs, but you'll see it across all disciplines of healthcare. .

I have friends that go to Duke and UNC medical schools. I always hear them bash the DO degree. LOL...MD vs DO

 

[nrsair]

Lil Wayne is my man don't get me wrong I love him, but lets be honest thats not too much of a compliment to a school haha.

I would totally go to a school founded by Lil Wayne. Knowing how to most effectively grow Kush and prepare various formulations of codeine cough syrup (with Sprite or Patron for example) would likely come in handy but may leave us out in the cold for some of the more "respectable" jobs. Associate professors would probably include Tony Yayo, Snoop, Jay Z (in charge of the pharmD/MBA program) and Wiz Khalifa.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I would totally go to a school founded by Lil Wayne. Knowing how to most effectively grow Kush and prepare various formulations of codeine cough syrup (with Sprite or Patron for example) would likely come in handy but may leave us out in the cold for some of the more "respectable" jobs. Associate professors would probably include Tony Yayo, Snoop, Jay Z (in charge of the pharmD/MBA program) and Wiz Khalifa.

 

[Celticspride58]

I would totally go to a school founded by Lil Wayne. Knowing how to most effectively grow Kush and prepare various formulations of codeine cough syrup (with Sprite or Patron for example) would likely come in handy but may leave us out in the cold for some of the more "respectable" jobs. Associate professors would probably include Tony Yayo, Snoop, Jay Z (in charge of the pharmD/MBA program) and Wiz Khalifa.

By far the best/most creative post I have seen since I joined this site...haha how could you forget Dr. Dre though.. I mean he is a Dr? hahah

 

[hckyplyr]

I have been going through here and seen quite a bith of bashing against D'Youville.. and lets be honest I am sure that I will have a bias after going to the school and being interviewed I was impressed. It seems like most of you on here who are putting them down are only basing it on the fact that they advertise and make fun of the name of the school. D'Youville is actually quite established as a school in other majors, and are moving in the right direction with pharmacy. I will agree with some posters on here by their def. of what a diplmoa mill is, but it seems that people are basing their judgement on weak facts. I wish I didn't even see this thread and get sucked in, but regardless of where I go to pharmacy school, I wont be worried about where it ranks on this list, more what I learn and what I will do with my degree will be important. This thread seems somewhat odd to me for the basic fact that we ALL on here in this particular section of the forum are wishing to be, or already are pharmacists. We should be happy/ supportive for EVERYONE and ANYONE who is willing enough to put themselves out there and post and say where they are going to school. All this ends up doing is makes perspective readers less ambitious to join or for that matter show their school pride in fear what people may say. If I or ANYONE else chooses to go to D'Youville and we then obtain our degrees and become certified, we are all again in one giant community of pharmacists. Being surrounded by many pharmaicst and knowing many first hand, regardless of where they obtained their degree they have been granted the knowledge and skills to be practicing pharmacists.

Instead of bashing or pointing out schools that are on this so called "Diploma Mill" list, would it hurt to realize that we are supposed to be a joined community?

At the bottom of your sig, you have seemingly applied to Albany, St. John Fisher, and D'Youville. Now, being that your a New York resident, I assume you know that UB would by and far have the lowest tuition, while also being the best regarded school, out of your listed schools It puzzles me why you didnt apply to UB? Your defending D'Youville of not being a diploma mill, but yet you didnt even attempt to apply to the cheapest in state school, with the best reputation? Doesnt make sense. Explain..........

 

[hckyplyr]

Lil Wayne is my man don't get me wrong I love him, but lets be honest thats not too much of a compliment to a school haha.

Yes, I agree the name of the school may be different, but like I said there are some schools on here that I havent heard of that others call quite elite.

You didn't offend me at all, I may not even attend there based on how else everything goes, I just find these newer schools get the crap end of the deal when it comes to people bashing them sometimes. I could see if there was a true premise, like failing to get accred. after years, or students transferring out after x amount of years. I don't know.. I didn't create the school but I just saw the time, effort, and money they were putting into trying to make it a great program and I respect hard work like that.

Nobody needs to apologize on here though, , thats the beauty of a site like this. You get to see different sides.

Even though I didn't agree with some earlier posts by everyone including yours, ha, I do agree with certain points.

This doesn't make much sense. You respect a new school opening (1 of how many new schools opening in the past 5 years, 40?) because they are trying to make a great program? UB is a well established school in a small Buffalo area, but 4 years ago St. John Fisher opens its doors 70 minutes from Buffalo. Lets not forget Lecom down in Erie, PA. Now, D'Youville opens it's doors literally 10 minutes from UB? D'Youville's tuition is close to double that of UB's. Its ridiculous. I have no respect for them. Unfortunately, there is a term for D'Youville, its called "Diploma Mill". However, I am familiar with the school and they have other programs like PA and PT that are very well established and have been around for years. However, they should have kept their hands off the pie with respect to pharmacy, instead of add to the current problem.

And not to rag on you or anything, but I seen your post about your 47 PCAT score, and you were still accepted to D'Youville. You can't honestly tell me you believe its a great school by accepting scores like that? You had a good GPA and great work experience, which definately helps, but I think you get my point.

 

[Electrode]

Ad removed by mod staff.

 

[owlegrad]

This doesn't make much sense. You respect a new school opening (1 of how many new schools opening in the past 5 years, 40?) because they are trying to make a great program? UB is a well established school in a small Buffalo area, but 4 years ago St. John Fisher opens its doors 70 minutes from Buffalo. Lets not forget Lecom down in Erie, PA. Now, D'Youville opens it's doors literally 10 minutes from UB? D'Youville's tuition is close to double that of UB's. Its ridiculous. I have no respect for them. Unfortunately, there is a term for D'Youville, its called "Diploma Mill". However, I am familiar with the school and they have other programs like PA and PT that are very well established and have been around for years. However, they should have kept their hands off the pie with respect to pharmacy, instead of add to the current problem.

And not to rag on you or anything, but I seen your post about your 47 PCAT score, and you were still accepted to D'Youville. You can't honestly tell me you believe its a great school by accepting scores like that? You had a good GPA and great work experience, which definately helps, but I think you get my point.

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary

Of course if you want to use the term to mean any new school with high tuition, then by all means be my guest. But that is not what it means.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary

Of course if you want to use the term to mean any new school with high tuition, then by all means be my guest. But that is not what it means.

Stop being so logical and rational!!!

 

[PharmD RPh]

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary

Of course if you want to use the term to mean any new school with high tuition, then by all means be my guest. But that is not what it means.

Owlegrad, while its hard to argue against Webster, I think I can do it... I believe the term "diploma mill" is a slang term that can take on many different meanings to an individual. See exert from urbandictionary: "Fraudulent institutions of higher education, sometimes lacking accreditation, which grant diplomas that are either fake or worthless. Historically a they have not been accredited, but with the increase of online schools, most now are accredited and offer a course load so easy, or based on loosely defined "life experience", so as to render their education valueless."

 

[Jabberwocky12]

I know a lot of places that hand out degrees for little work basically say that some people have most of the knowledge (i.e. life experience) but don't have the credentials to back it up. Albeit this doesn't work for a lot of healthcare professionals, how many people in a business world (or part time job in college) were qualified for a job based on the requirements but someone else got it because they had a degree? And thus, University of Phoenix, DeVry, ITT, etc. were born! A lot of people argue that they teach materials they need to know for a job. I would agree, but a lot of it is stuff you could learn either on your own or at a faster pace that doesn't need a degree.

Some jobs just like to see "BS in Computer Support" rather than "5 years experience fixing PCs"

Pharmacy I consider a little differently though because people can still pass off as competent professionals and still have enough knowledge that you can't just learn through "life experience."

I'll probably edit this post to make a little more sense when I'm not slacking off in my economics class

 

[owlegrad]

Owlegrad, while its hard to argue against Webster, I think I can do it... I believe the term "diploma mill" is a slang term that can take on many different meanings to an individual. See exert from urbandictionary: "Fraudulent institutions of higher education, sometimes lacking accreditation, which grant diplomas that are either fake or worthless. Historically a they have not been accredited, but with the increase of online schools, most now are accredited and offer a course load so easy, or based on loosely defined "life experience", so as to render their education valueless."

I like urbandictionary's definition even more! Really puts emphasis on the "coursework" this is so easy that it is worthless. I also like this, but I know some people have a thing against them so I wasn't gonna mention it.

I think it is fair to say what most people on this board mean when they say diplomia mill they are thinking of this:

But a real diplomia mill is more like this:

or this:

Or finally (my fav):

 

[owlegrad]

 

[PharmyDude]

Albany College of Pharmacy opened a VT campus where everything is online streamed lectures from the main campus, but to me it just seems like a huge money making scheme. I know all these schools are a business and I think everyone should just go to the cheapest school they get into.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I like urbandictionary's definition even more! Really puts emphasis on the "coursework" this is so easy that it is worthless. I also like this, but I know some people have a thing against them so I wasn't gonna mention it.

I think it is fair to say what most people on this board mean when they say diplomia mill they are thinking of this:

But a real diplomia mill is more like this:

or this:

Or finally (my fav):

Those are good. And I know I'll get people arguing that if they can pass NAPLEX, then how can schools be called a diploma mill? And they have a good point, but IMO when I took NAPLEX it was a joke. We could probably even pass it after 3rd year. I'd like to see something in pharmacy more along the lines with what medicine and dentistry do with the step 1 and 2. Have a step 1 maybe after 3rd year that is NAPLEX based... a multiple choice, standardized exam that just tests basic pharmacy knowledge. Then, have a step 2 after 4th year that is more practical in nature.... maybe a written compounding exam along with real patient cases and a counseling session on random drugs to an actual patient. I just think we need to hold higher standards because in reality I think a lot of schools are just preparing us to pass NAPLEX and not worrying so much on how to critically think about compounding hands on, or doing an MTM case or counseling a patient without using your PDA.

 

[Celticspride58]

At the bottom of your sig, you have seemingly applied to Albany, St. John Fisher, and D'Youville. Now, being that your a New York resident, I assume you know that UB would by and far have the lowest tuition, while also being the best regarded school, out of your listed schools It puzzles me why you didnt apply to UB? Your defending D'Youville of not being a diploma mill, but yet you didnt even attempt to apply to the cheapest in state school, with the best reputation? Doesnt make sense. Explain..........

I didn't apply to UB because the CC I attend does not offer A&P which is a PreReq for UB, therefore making it a school that I could not apply to. With working so much I had to really focus myself on schools that I could apply to that fit my prereqs and sadly UB was not one of those. It didn't come down to money or else I easily would have said UB, without question.

And in regards to your comment about my PCAT score.. I will entirely honest. I wasn't sure if I would even be granted an interview to any pharmacy school with a score like that. I was lucky to have been granted intreviews to all three schools I applied, and so far accepted into one. I feel it is a little ignorant to say that I cant honestly feel they are a good school since they accepted a score like that. When you look around and call and talk to schools about PCAT scores, or even on here, there are plenty that have gotten in with low scores. And not to poke fun at UB since you seem to be quite the fan, but I friend who got a 50 percentile on the PCAT and was admitted to UB, do I think that school is less than stellar? No.

It is ignorant posts like yours about how I can't honestly say that they are a great school since they accepted a PCAT score like mine that bother me. A PCAT score, yes is a big component of the app. process along with the GPA. But those are only two of the components that go into such, and I feel I proved myself in others. I shouldn't have to be defending myself about getting into a school based on a crappy PCAT score, trust me I was aware how poor it was. I don't need someone else going through my old posts that I put up to give hope to others to get into pharmacy school, and use them against me.

 

[OHPharmd08]

NEOUCOM 3
Lecom 3

 

[Celticspride58]

Albany College of Pharmacy opened a VT campus where everything is online streamed lectures from the main campus, but to me it just seems like a huge money making scheme. I know all these schools are a business and I think everyone should just go to the cheapest school they get into.

Not everything is streamed online.. There are a few classes where you go to a room in which there are camera around so you can talk with the professors at the Albany campus, and their lecture is broadcasted live on the big screen in class. With that being said, some classes at the Albany campus have to have theirs shown in the same type of room as well. Its not a money making scheme. For many years now Vermont has been wanting a pharmacy school and been working to have one established. Albany has worked very closely with hospitals, pharmacys, and research labs to make their VT campus a prestige one in the area.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I didn't apply to UB because the CC I attend does not offer A&P which is a PreReq for UB, therefore making it a school that I could not apply to. With working so much I had to really focus myself on schools that I could apply to that fit my prereqs and sadly UB was not one of those. It didn't come down to money or else I easily would have said UB, without question.

And in regards to your comment about my PCAT score.. I will entirely honest. I wasn't sure if I would even be granted an interview to any pharmacy school with a score like that. I was lucky to have been granted intreviews to all three schools I applied, and so far accepted into one. I feel it is a little ignorant to say that I cant honestly feel they are a good school since they accepted a score like that. When you look around and call and talk to schools about PCAT scores, or even on here, there are plenty that have gotten in with low scores. And not to poke fun at UB since you seem to be quite the fan, but I friend who got a 50 percentile on the PCAT and was admitted to UB, do I think that school is less than stellar? No.

It is ignorant posts like yours about how I can't honestly say that they are a great school since they accepted a PCAT score like mine that bother me. A PCAT score, yes is a big component of the app. process along with the GPA. But those are only two of the components that go into such, and I feel I proved myself in others. I shouldn't have to be defending myself about getting into a school based on a crappy PCAT score, trust me I was aware how poor it was. I don't need someone else going through my old posts that I put up to give hope to others to get into pharmacy school, and use them against me.

I think what the poster about PCAT scores was getting at is that a school that has a 80% PCAT score vs. a school with a 50% average PCAT score would cause a different reputation to be formed against them. Now I don't believe its professional to call someone out over their PCAT score and that information should be kept private IMO. But, I do think reputation of how difficult it is to get into a program, i.e. average PCAT and GPA tell a lot about the quality of student that program will produce on average. There was also a study I posted from University of Iowa that showed a strong significant statistical correlation between PCAT, ACT score and P3 year GPA to higher board scores and higher pass rates on your board exams. So one would argue that a school that accepts on average a 50 percentile score would have a harder time getting applicants to pass boards vs. a 80 percentile school, which would then reflect on its perceived reputation by it's peers.

 

[Celticspride58]

I think what the poster about PCAT scores was getting at is that a school that has a 80% PCAT score vs. a school with a 50% average PCAT score would cause a different reputation to be formed against them. Now I don't believe its professional to call someone out over their PCAT score and that information should be kept private IMO. But, I do think reputation of how difficult it is to get into a program, i.e. average PCAT and GPA tell a lot about the quality of student that program will produce on average. There was also a study I posted from University of Iowa that showed a strong significant statistical correlation between PCAT, ACT score and P3 year GPA to higher board scores and higher pass rates on your board exams. So one would argue that a school that accepts on average a 50 percentile score would have a harder time getting applicants to pass boards vs. a 80 percentile school, which would then reflect on its perceived reputation by it's peers.

I see your point but my score does not reflect the entire schools accepting, that is why it is called an average. My score, certainly will bring down that average but it does not stipulate the entire school to those standards. I feel people often overlook that not every school is looking for someone who aces the PCAT and GPA, yet has no experience in other areas or lacks communication skills.

Higher pass rates on the board are great and I am cetain that there is some correlation, but as soon as you are accepted into a program those scores and GPA's from the past go out the window. It is a fresh new start to continue on the path of learning and really apply yourself more then ever before. I just have a hard time of falling into the trap of thinking that since I didnt do so great on the PCAT, that I will struggle more to pass the boards then someone with an 80 percentile, and my premise on the belief is that from P1 onward, it is a whole new start to what you learn and gives an opportunity to show how much one really does know.

 

[PharmD RPh]

Celticspride58;10476736]I see your point but my score does not reflect the entire schools accepting, that is why it is called an average. My score, certainly will bring down that average but it does not stipulate the entire school to those standards. I feel people often overlook that not every school is looking for someone who aces the PCAT and GPA, yet has no experience in other areas or lacks communication skills.

You're right which is why there is a 3rd component of an interview. Most schools will stratify applicants based on GPA and PCAT to decide who they want to call for an interview. Now they might have a few applicants that stick out from their research, work experience, personal statement or letters of recommendation they'll call for an interview regardless of GPA or PCAT, but the majority fall into the highest "x" amount of students with PCAT and GPA get the interview.

Higher pass rates on the board are great and I am cetain that there is some correlation, but as soon as you are accepted into a program those scores and GPA's from the past go out the window.

Not true. University of Iowa study looked at just PCAT and ACT score which were both taken before you entered pharmacy school and saw that just based on those factors alone they were strong predictors of how you would perform on boards.

It is a fresh new start to continue on the path of learning and really apply yourself more then ever before. I just have a hard time of falling into the trap of thinking that since I didnt do so great on the PCAT, that I will struggle more to pass the boards then someone with an 80 percentile, and my premise on the belief is that from P1 onward, it is a whole new start to what you learn and gives an opportunity to show how much one really does know.

It's good that you're going into this with what seems to be a hard work ethic. GPA is an indicator of work ethic whereas PCAT can be looked at as an indicator of how well someone might perform on standardized exams and retain information, for example the boards.

 

[hckyplyr]

I didn't apply to UB because the CC I attend does not offer A&P which is a PreReq for UB, therefore making it a school that I could not apply to. With working so much I had to really focus myself on schools that I could apply to that fit my prereqs and sadly UB was not one of those. It didn't come down to money or else I easily would have said UB, without question.

And in regards to your comment about my PCAT score.. I will entirely honest. I wasn't sure if I would even be granted an interview to any pharmacy school with a score like that. I was lucky to have been granted intreviews to all three schools I applied, and so far accepted into one. I feel it is a little ignorant to say that I cant honestly feel they are a good school since they accepted a score like that. When you look around and call and talk to schools about PCAT scores, or even on here, there are plenty that have gotten in with low scores. And not to poke fun at UB since you seem to be quite the fan, but I friend who got a 50 percentile on the PCAT and was admitted to UB, do I think that school is less than stellar? No.

It is ignorant posts like yours about how I can't honestly say that they are a great school since they accepted a PCAT score like mine that bother me. A PCAT score, yes is a big component of the app. process along with the GPA. But those are only two of the components that go into such, and I feel I proved myself in others. I shouldn't have to be defending myself about getting into a school based on a crappy PCAT score, trust me I was aware how poor it was. I don't need someone else going through my old posts that I put up to give hope to others to get into pharmacy school, and use them against me.

Anecdotal comments like this mean nothing to me without proof. If you want to say that, I can say that I personally work with three D'Youville pre-pharms at my hospital who were just accepted, and their PCAT scores were all in the low 40's. (True story). But like I said in my previous post, my intentions were not to rag on you for a specific PCAT score, I was just trying to make a point about the school. You did have a good gpa and work experience. IMO, work experience such as yours is worth its weight in gold compared to someone with a 4.0, 90+ PCAT, with no exp. I meet so many pharmacy students that are in school, but yet never stepped foot in a pharmacy prior to school rotations. These students seem so apathetic about learning, or getting experience, that I can't help but think of why they are probably going into the profession in the first place?$....But anyways, congrats on the acceptance and I'm sure you'll do just fine with whatever school you decide on.

 

[owlegrad]

I see your point but my score does not reflect the entire schools accepting, that is why it is called an average. ....

I always found it humorous when I was a pre-pharmer and people would say something like, "you need at least an X to get into Y, that is the average for last years incoming class." X could be for GPA, PCAT, w/e. It's like, do you understand what an average is?

 

[PharmD RPh]

I always found it humorous when I was a pre-pharmer and people would say something like, "you need at least an X to get into Y, that is the average for last years incoming class." X could be for GPA, PCAT, w/e. It's like, do you understand what an average is?

True, it is an average, but it gives you an idea of if your stats are in the same ball park.

 

[1ive2die]

Do you think CVS or any other prescription mill pharmacy cares where you got your degree from? The only thing they care about is that you are legally able to practice and can sign 50+ scripts an hour.

By the way, if they had a choice of hiring a top grad from a top school and a grad from a diploma mill that will take a few bucks an hour less in wages you can bet they'll take the diploma mill grad.

 

[Smiles425]

Do you think CVS or any other prescription mill pharmacy cares where you got your degree from? The only thing they care about is that you are legally able to practice and can sign 50+ scripts an hour.

By the way, if they had a choice of hiring a top grad from a top school and a grad from a diploma mill that will take a few bucks an hour less in wages you can bet they'll take the diploma mill grad.

And this is a good thing for the profession because...?????? Sounds like a downward spiral to me. Pretty soon even the so-called "diploma mill" grads would be paid less and less in the scenario you just mentioned.

 

[PharmD RPh]

Do you think CVS or any other prescription mill pharmacy cares where you got your degree from? The only thing they care about is that you are legally able to practice and can sign 50+ scripts an hour.

By the way, if they had a choice of hiring a top grad from a top school and a grad from a diploma mill that will take a few bucks an hour less in wages you can bet they'll take the diploma mill grad.

The way chains are moving, yes they do care and here is why. They want quality graduates because they should make less mistakes and I don't need to explain what a drug error costs a company. We are already seeing the crappy pharmacists get the boot and they only want the best because the better they can staff their store with quality pharmacists the better the bottom line numbers on wall street. This has been proven.

As far as wage goes, you'll never see them pay a few bucks an hour less and kick out the current pharmacist. Turnover is costly to a company and patients don't like new faces in the pharmacy. The better a company can retain it's staff the more experienced they'll get which equals better profits and the more money the company will save from turnover In the past there have been discrimation lawsuits based on pay so companies now pay everyone in the same area equally. If anything we will see salaries level off and maybe decline across the board equally. It kills me when prepharm students post crazy things on here.

 

[owlegrad]

The way chains are moving, yes they do care and here is why. They want quality graduates because they should make less mistakes and I don't need to explain what a drug error costs a company. We are already seeing the crappy pharmacists get the boot and they only want the best because the better they can staff their store with quality pharmacists the better the bottom line numbers on wall street. This has been proven.

As far as wage goes, you'll never see them pay a few bucks an hour less and kick out the current pharmacist. Turnover is costly to a company and patients don't like new faces in the pharmacy. The better a company can retain it's staff the more experienced they'll get which equals better profits and the more money the company will save from turnover In the past there have been discrimation lawsuits based on pay so companies now pay everyone in the same area equally. If anything we will see salaries level off and maybe decline across the board equally. It kills me when prepharm students post crazy things on here.

Could not agree more. Sometimes it does make sense to replace current staff, but doing so to save a few bucks per hour would not be cost justified. The whole concept of getting raises only makes sense if your staff becomes more valuable over time due to experience. If companies actually replaced staff everytime someone was willing to do a job for less, salaries would never rise, because there is always someone willing to do your job for less.

The only small dissension I have with this statement is that it's not always prepharmers trying to sell this idea.

 

[KARM12]

The school you go to does not matter for retail. It will matter if you are interested in clinical positions/residencies.

 

[PharmD RPh]

The school you go to does not matter for retail. It will matter if you are interested in clinical positions/residencies.

It would be interesting to get some numbers on this from currently practicing pharmacists. I'd like to see a poll stated the following

1. Does school you attended help you get a job in retail pharmacy in this current job market, assuming all other factors are somewhat equal?
a. Yes
b. No

2. Did you attend a top 40 Pharmacy school as based on the latest standings from US News and World report: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...raduate-schools/top-pharmacy-schools/rankings

a. Yes
b. No

I'm a newbie and don't know how to do polls!

 

[hckyplyr]

Why was the link posted by "the hippopotamos" removed? I was trying to show someone the link, and its gone??????????

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Why was the link posted by "the hippopotamos" removed? I was trying to show someone the link, and its gone??????????

Because that was a spammer.