Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[AdmiralChz]

This would have been a good question to ask LAST year before you did this, now the question is sort of moot. The big issue is you have been doing no clinical work (and won’t?) for a year prior to starting - most academic programs will probably pass, even with your strong application. You can almost certainly still match, though, but you likely won’t be able to target a metro area to live - apply broadly to low-level academics and community.

Best thing you can do is detail why this happened in your PS, honestly. That way programs know what the deal is.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I agree, you probably should have asked last year--the best route might have been to ask for a leave of absence last year, come back and do MS4 this year that way you would still be applying as a graduating senior. Alas, no sense thinking about the past now.

The no clinical work is a real problem I think, but probably not insurmountable as long as you apply broadly. Do be explicit about what's up with your app in your personal statement.

 

[EastOfSalinas]

Thank you both. Do you think I could get away with applying to 15-20 programs scattered across those cities? +Chicago

 

[Anicetus]

Thank you both. Do you think I could get away with applying to 15-20 programs scattered across those cities? +Chicago

I did almost exactly what you did with worse stats and was successful. You don’t even need Chicago. I was just desperate to go back to a desirable city lol.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Long-time occasional lurker, appreciate the advice I've gotten over the years on here. I'm applying this cycle, and haven't yet made a list of programs to apply to. My (unoriginal) preference is to live in a major, coastal city, and I'm looking for a career in research/industry. Is it unrealistic to narrow the programs I consider to academic university programs in cities like Seattle, SF, LA, NYC, Boston and Philly? I'm wondering how much I should look into programs in areas where I wouldn't want to stay or where I don't have family/friend connections.

School: Top 5

Step 1: mid 250s
Step 2: 270+

Class rank: TBD
AOA: 50% chance? so let's call it A + O
Non-MD Degrees: MS
Clerkships: H in majority including IM, HP in two
Research: 1-2 first author abstracts, 1 first author paper, 1-2 reviews in submission, one as first and one as second, another paper that may be submitted in time as second author, two posters in college
ECs: Ehhhhhhhhh
LoRs: Fine

Thanks!

You’ve got top stats coming from a top 5 school and you’re worried about this? Are y’all serious?

 

[EastOfSalinas]

Idk, I only have real ties to the Northeast and competition among the top 2-3 in each city leaves room for randomness to occur.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Idk, I only have real ties to the Northeast and competition among the top 2-3 in each city leaves room for randomness to occur.

You go to a top 5 med school and have excellent scores with possibility of AOA.

This is a first world problem. This is like a billionaire being concerned if he can afford a first class ticket. Give me a break.

 

[whoknows2012]

Trying to figure out places to apply to! I honestly have no idea where I stand.
I think I'm a below-average applicant when all things are considered.

Med school: MD mid-tier school in Midwest
USMLE Step1: 238
USMLE Step 2: 247
CS: Scheduled to take it in Oct
Clinicals: H's in OB/GYN, Peds, and Psych. HP in IM, surgery, and FM. H in medicine sub-I
Research: Poster presentation on bench/lab research from undergrad. None from med school.
LORs: 4 letters, 3 from IM and 1 from FM. Should be decent.
ECs/volunteer: Interesting work experience during med school for 4 years. Otherwise, pretty insignificant.

I'd like to ideally match at academic IM residency that will leave doors open for fellowship possibilities.
I would prefer to stay in Midwest, but pretty unrestricted geographically.

Here is my list so far...

Indiana: University of Indiana
Iowa: University of Iowa
Ohio: Ohio State, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, University of Toledo, University of Cincinnati
Wisconsin: University of Wisconsin, Medical College of Wisconsin
Minnesota: University of Minnesota, Hennepin County Medical Center
Illinois: UIC, Rush, Loyola, Stroger Cook County
Michigan: Henry Ford
Missouri: St. Louis University, University of Missouri

What are my chances specifically at those programs in Chicago? I'd love to live in a big city at least during residency, but I understand things are more competitive in those places.
I'm thinking of applying to about 40 programs. Any programs I could add more in Midwest? East coast (with no ties)?
Any suggestion would be super helpful!

For academic east coast program that are within reach id add BU, Dartmouth, montefiore, RWJ, Jefferson, Maryland, Georgetown, UVA.

Could also add brown, tufts, temple if you wanted.

Reaches that are worth it IMO but totally up to you as far as how many programs you want apply to.

Bwh, bidmc, mgh, NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, UPenn, Hopkins

I notably cut it off at the mason Dixon line bc I don’t have as much knowledge south of there.

 

[IMed2GI]

Trying to figure out places to apply to! I honestly have no idea where I stand.
I think I'm a below-average applicant when all things are considered.

Med school: MD mid-tier school in Midwest
USMLE Step1: 238
USMLE Step 2: 247
CS: Scheduled to take it in Oct
Clinicals: H's in OB/GYN, Peds, and Psych. HP in IM, surgery, and FM. H in medicine sub-I
Research: Poster presentation on bench/lab research from undergrad. None from med school.
LORs: 4 letters, 3 from IM and 1 from FM. Should be decent.
ECs/volunteer: Interesting work experience during med school for 4 years. Otherwise, pretty insignificant.

I'd like to ideally match at academic IM residency that will leave doors open for fellowship possibilities.
I would prefer to stay in Midwest, but pretty unrestricted geographically.

Here is my list so far...

Indiana: University of Indiana
Iowa: University of Iowa
Ohio: Ohio State, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, University of Toledo, University of Cincinnati
Wisconsin: University of Wisconsin, Medical College of Wisconsin
Minnesota: University of Minnesota, Hennepin County Medical Center
Illinois: UIC, Rush, Loyola, Stroger Cook County
Michigan: Henry Ford
Missouri: St. Louis University, University of Missouri

What are my chances specifically at those programs in Chicago? I'd love to live in a big city at least during residency, but I understand things are more competitive in those places.
I'm thinking of applying to about 40 programs. Any programs I could add more in Midwest? East coast (with no ties)?
Any suggestion would be super helpful!

I'm just an applicant as well, but I would think that you have a very strong chance at all non-NU and UC chicago programs. Couple others I can think of would be UPMC, Beaumont, Maryland

 

[soccerusa]

MS4 here applying to internal medicine. Looking to get some feedback on my list of programs applying to. I am interested in academic program with plans for career in academic heme/onc. I have a heavy bias towards west coast as my whole family is out here.

Are there other programs I should be considering?
How many programs should I be applying to?

I appreciate everyone's assistance. Our dean's office is woefully inept in the advising department.

Update: got AOA today! Not sure if it changes anything though

School: West Coast Top 20
Grades: H in all 3rd year clerkships except HP in neuro, H in medicine wards Sub I and heme/onc Sub I
Boards: 260 Step 1, 265 Step 2 CK, CS pass
AOA: Yes
Research: 2 first author pubs, 1 first author abstract at major meeting, middle author abstract at major meeting, many middle author papers from college research.
Letters: 3rd year medicine attending (should be good), large name heme onc attending from Sub I (will be positive but not that personal), Medicine 4th year sub I wards attending (should be fine, hospitalist with 5-7 yrs experience), Chair's letter
ECs: ehh ... homeless clinic, tutoring, whatever
Personal statement: well written but average

Here is my prelim list (15 programs)

UCSF
Stanford
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UW
MGH
BWH
BIDMC
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
Northwestern
U Chicago

Maybe: WashU/Vandy???

 

[275471]

MS4 here applying to internal medicine. Looking to get some feedback on my list of programs applying to. I am interested in academic program with plans for career in academic heme/onc. I have a heavy bias towards west coast as my whole family is out here.

Are there other programs I should be considering?
How many programs should I be applying to?

I appreciate everyone's assistance. Our dean's office is woefully inept in the advising department.

School: West Coast Top 20
Grades: H in all 3rd year clerkships except HP in neuro, H in medicine wards Sub I and heme/onc Sub I
Boards: 260 Step 1, 265 Step 2 CK, CS pass
AOA: unknown, maybe 50/50 shot
Research: 2 first author pubs, 1 first author abstract at major meeting, middle author abstract at major meeting, many middle author papers from college research.
Letters: 3rd year medicine attending (should be good), large name heme onc attending from Sub I (will be positive but not that personal), Medicine 4th year sub I wards attending (should be fine, hospitalist with 5-7 yrs experience), Chair's letter
ECs: ehh ... homeless clinic, tutoring, whatever
Personal statement: well written but average

Here is my prelim list (15 programs)

UCSF
Stanford
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UW
MGH
BWH
BIDMC
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
Northwestern
U Chicago

Maybe: WashU/Vandy???

Congrats on a great app and a great med school career. I think your goal should be for 10-12 interviews for essentially a 100% chance of match. Reality is you are very unlikely to go past 5 on your rank list. Anyway - my thoughts are you should def be able to get interviews at UCSD/UC Davis/Stanford/BIDMC/Cornell - with maybe at worst 50-50% at the rest which would put you right at 10 interviews. I'd prob recommend applying to 20 programs just to be safe - given your coastal preference I'd consider OHSU, Mt. Sinai, NYU, Hopkins, UNC, Vandy, UVA, Emory - I can't think of many more West coast as I'm not as familiar with those programs. Best of luck!

 

[IMhopeful2019]

Thanks Gutonc, did not realize this was a thread... my bad!

I guess I'll put my stuff in a easier to read format.

DO student
Step 1: 219
Step 2: Pending - Should be at least 235+ I hope
Level 1 5-- something, don't remember
Level 2 630+
Level 2 PE - Passed
No research

Willing to apply broadly, prefer west coast/anything west of kansas , no strong desire for east coast. Any tips on where I would have a shot at?
Would ideally like to keep fellowship opportunities open if possible... GI, cards, Pulmonary/CC, etc

 

[gutonc]

^^
Merged with the WAMC thread.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Alright,
Feeling very bemused by all this, seems extremely difficult to find out how competitive one is,
Especially being a non US-IMG
Would definitely want a university position for IM,
Step 1 - 242
Step 2 CK - 269
Step 2 CS - Pass 1st attempt
Research and Pubs - Zilch, nada
3 months USCE - 1 month at a IM private clinic, 2 months at a Community Hospital in cardio and onc
LORs - should get a minimum of 4 from US docs

So yeah, I'm applying to like 70 University programs. None in the "top 30" Starting at U of Iowa, Kansas, Connecticut and kind of working my way down the list. What do you guys think?

You need more. Those scores are fine but without a good research CV many places won’t give you the time of day.

 

[gutonc]

Alright,
Feeling very bemused by all this, seems extremely difficult to find out how competitive one is,
Especially being a non US-IMG
Would definitely want a university position for IM,
Step 1 - 242
Step 2 CK - 269
Step 2 CS - Pass 1st attempt
Research and Pubs - Zilch, nada
3 months USCE - 1 month at a IM private clinic, 2 months at a Community Hospital in cardio and onc
LORs - should get a minimum of 4 from US docs

So yeah, I'm applying to like 70 University programs. None in the "top 30" Starting at U of Iowa, Kansas, Connecticut and kind of working my way down the list. What do you guys think?

You need more. Those scores are fine but without a good research CV many places won’t give you the time of day.

Meh...I think you'll probably be OK with those numbers. But adding more won't hurt. Also, visa status matters. And beggars can't be choosers, so you should consider some community programs as well. There are plenty of very strong ones out there (many as good or better than some of the lower tier University places that will likely be on your list).

 

[gutonc]

Yeah I just didn't have the time for research, only wrote step 1 in Dec 17' and outside that I had to spend time outside, man was it isolating. It is what is I suppose, I'll try for some mid or lower-tier universities, I think I'll interview well if I get a chance.

When it comes to Community programs. There seem to be about 150 of them or so on Frieda. I've seen a couple of old posts about them were a couple of popular programs are mentioned. Any particular way to navigate which are the better ones?

Start by looking at current resident lists and fellowship match lists. There are a few that pop up routinely as being strong but there are plenty that aren't.

 

[Anicetus]

Thanks Gutonc, did not realize this was a thread... my bad!

I guess I'll put my stuff in a easier to read format.

DO student
Step 1: 219
Step 2: Pending - Should be at least 235+ I hope
Level 1 5-- something, don't remember
Level 2 630+
Level 2 PE - Passed
No research

Willing to apply broadly, prefer west coast/anything west of kansas , no strong desire for east coast. Any tips on where I would have a shot at?
Would ideally like to keep fellowship opportunities open if possible... GI, cards, Pulmonary/CC, etc

If you’re thinking about those hyper competitive fellowships, you may want to broaden your geography. You’re better off going to a mid tier academic place that’s you’d have a decent shot at somewhere less desirable than going to a low tier academic place.

That being said you’re a reach for the mid tier academic places in your geographic preference (basically most of the university programs) with the exception of Arizona and maybe olive view UCLA. You’ll have to assess how badly you want those fellowships before just settling for community places in a geographic preference.

 

[Square[]]

Alright,
Feeling very bemused by all this, seems extremely difficult to find out how competitive one is,
Especially being a non US-IMG
Would definitely want a university position for IM,
Step 1 - 242
Step 2 CK - 269
Step 2 CS - Pass 1st attempt
Research and Pubs - Zilch, nada
3 months USCE - 1 month at a IM private clinic, 2 months at a Community Hospital in cardio and onc
LORs - should get a minimum of 4 from US docs

So yeah, I'm applying to like 70 University programs. None in the "top 30" Starting at U of Iowa, Kansas, Connecticut and kind of working my way down the list. What do you guys think?

You will easily find a spot at a community program. University program is very unlikely without significant research. The name of your school may play a role (i.e. did UConn previously take people from your med school?). There are plenty of candidates with similar or better scores + publications.

 

[Square[]]

Yeah I mean, thing is, I just didn't have the time for research this year. After interview season begins I'll try to get involved in it, obviously it will be too late for this years match.

My chances for university programs are basically that my high Step scores ( more so CK than step 1 ) will out-compete a US MD grad with mediocre step scores.
There seem to be a ton of Community programs though. Just need one that will land me a fellowship and provide good clinical training.

Always angst. Even just applying for residency and working you can't just appreciate the process. You have to be apprehensive about how competitive you'll be for a fellowship 3 years down the line.
Then again, no one forced me into it...

You are not competing with US MDs. You are competing with other foreign grads.

 

[IMhopeful2019]

If you’re thinking about those hyper competitive fellowships, you may want to broaden your geography. You’re better off going to a mid tier academic place that’s you’d have a decent shot at somewhere less desirable than going to a low tier academic place.

That being said you’re a reach for the mid tier academic places in your geographic preference (basically most of the university programs) with the exception of Arizona and maybe olive view UCLA. You’ll have to assess how badly you want those fellowships before just settling for community places in a geographic preference.

Thanks for the reply! Is there a list or something that I could look at to see what is considered "mid-tier" academics vs "low-tier" academics? It's easy to see the upper tier UCLA/UCSF/UCSD etc etc, and I know they won't take me, but where do I draw the line to start applying and having a shot at interviewing?

 

[Anicetus]

Thanks for the reply! Is there a list or something that I could look at to see what is considered "mid-tier" academics vs "low-tier" academics? It's easy to see the upper tier UCLA/UCSF/UCSD etc etc, and I know they won't take me, but where do I draw the line to start applying and having a shot at interviewing?

“My super official totally non biased list” but really I just found it to be this way for the sole purpose of matching GI/cards fellowships.

Some consider UCSD mid tier, but tends to be harsher with their cutoffs for interviews compared to the other mid tiers.
Mid tier academic:
USC
UCI
UC Davis
Cedars Sinai (debatable due to its academic/community hybrid, but still draws a lot of strong applicants via the name, similarly to the Cleveland clinic effect.)

Low-mid tier:
Harbor-UCLA
Olive view-UCLA
Loma Linda

There aren’t really any low tier academic places in California but the UCLA branch programs are just as competitive as the mid tier ones solely due to location despite what doximity surveys show.

The Kaiser’s and scripps programs aren’t labeled as academic, which by definition make it harder to match academic fellowships, but again scripps green and kaiser LA/SF can be competitive based on location.

 

[IMhopeful2019]

I appreciate your time and the reply! Thank you!

 

[gutonc]

Updated with Step 2/Level 2 scores, LORs, and some more programs. Will I have 10+ interviews with this list, or should I add more community programs? Thanks all for your help.

You'll get more than 10 IVs from that list. You could probably cut out some of the community programs quite honestly. I think you've targeted quite well.

 

[IMhopeful2019]

Updated with step 2, and some schools I am considering. Any advice or help with be appreciated.

DO school, top 1/2 of class
Step 1: 219
Step 2: 246
Level 1: 515
Level 2: 635
No research or significant ECs

Here are some schools I am considering... Do I have a chance at any of these or are these all reaches?

Cali: UC Riverside, UC Irvine, UCSF Fresno, Scripps clinic & mercy, Harbor, Olive View, Loma Linda, Kaisers?
Midwest: Uni of Minnesota, Uni of Kansas, Uni of Missouri-Columbia, St Louis Uni
Texas: UT Medical Branch, UT Austin, Baylor COM, UT health, and Texas Tech Center
Florida: Uni of Miami MIller/Holy Cross, UCF, UF, UF COM Jacksonville, USF, FSU COM


I am also trying to figure out if I need to apply to 40-50+ programs? Or if 25-35 would be safe?

 

[m.d.2019]

Hi everyone. Looking for a little advice on where I might be competitive. I am from an average med school in the Midwest and am looking to stay somewhat close to the Midwest. I will likely pursue a fellowship in the future.
Med school: mid level, Midwest
Step 1: mid 240’s
Step 2: 249 (really wish I had that extra point)
Rank: top 10% (unsure if my school will put this in the MSPE)
Grades: Honors in IM, surgery, neurology, OB, psych. Pass in FM, peds. Expecting Honors in IM Sub-I. (No high pass at my school)
AOA: yes
GHHS: yes
Research: Basically negligible. There’s a minor project I’m helping with, so I’ll avoid a goose egg on ERAS.

My goal is to match to a mid-upper tier university program. I’d also like to eventually be competitive for a solid fellowship. My (tentative) list is below.

Reaches: Vandy, WashU, Northwestern, UChicago, Duke, Pitt (Vandy and WashU are very close to home)
Maybe a reach?: UAB, UMichigan, Emory, UVA.
Unsure: Indiana, Ohio State, Cincinnati, MUSC, UNC, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Louisville, Colorado, Wake, SLU, VCU
Additional options: UT Memphis, Missouri, UMKC, Arkansas, MCG (GA), WVU

- I am particularly interested in my competitiveness for Michigan, UAB, and Vandy.
- Would really appreciate some advice. Thanks so much!

 

[CantStepWell]

Med school rank: Top "50" USWNR (whatever that means) located in the midwest
Step 1: 232
Step 2: 248
AOA/GHHS: lol
Rotations: all honors including Sub-I
Research: 4+ publications
Extracurricular: strong leadership/president of club

Looking to match into an IM university program in the Midwest and East Coast. How many community programs (if any) should I apply to? What are the highest reaches I should aim for? I was thinking Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, UChicago, Michigan, Penn, Duke, WashU but after browsing this forum I'm starting to think these are going to be a waste of time/money to apply.

Where I feel like I can reasonably end up with some luck: Sinai, NYU, Montefiore, Loyola, rush, UIC, Jefferson, Yale, Brown, Emory, UNC, OSU, UWmadison, Case Western.

This is a short list but I feel like I can expand greatly to have at least 30-40 programs; please let know if I should do so. Thanks!!


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[aafisahar]

Med school rank: Top "50" USWNR (whatever that means) located in the midwest
Step 1: 232
Step 2: 248
AOA/GHHS: lol
Rotations: all honors including Sub-I
Research: 4+ publications
Extracurricular: strong leadership/president of club

Looking to match into an IM university program in the Midwest and East Coast. How many community programs (if any) should I apply to? What are the highest reaches I should aim for? I was thinking Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, UChicago, Michigan, Penn, Duke, WashU but after browsing this forum I'm starting to think these are going to be a waste of time/money to apply.

Where I feel like I can reasonably end up with some luck: Sinai, NYU, Montefiore, Loyola, rush, UIC, Jefferson, Yale, Brown, Emory, UNC, OSU, UWmadison, Case Western.

This is a short list but I feel like I can expand greatly to have at least 30-40 programs; please let know if I should do so. Thanks!!


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

what are your goals? hospitalist? PCP? not competitive fellowship (eg endo, id, renal, pall-care)? Any decent university program will be sufficient.

if you want GI/cards/heme-onc, you should aim for the best program. I'd imagine you should be competitive for at least some of the great programs (eg columbia, uchicago, washu).

 

[CantStepWell]

what are your goals? hospitalist? PCP? not competitive fellowship (eg endo, id, renal, pall-care)? Any decent university program will be sufficient.

if you want GI/cards/heme-onc, you should aim for the best program. I'd imagine you should be competitive for at least some of the great programs (eg columbia, uchicago, washu).

I want to keep all doors open at this point. But the programs you listed seem very out of reach after my relatively poor step performances. I guess I’m wondering what reach programs tend to be more forgiving academically and will still allow me to purse competitive fellowships.

 

[soccerusa]

MS4 here applying to internal medicine. Looking to get some feedback on my list of programs applying to. I am interested in academic program with plans for career in academic heme/onc. I have a heavy bias towards west coast as my whole family is out here.

Are there other programs I should be considering?
How many programs should I be applying to?

I appreciate everyone's assistance. Our dean's office is woefully inept in the advising department.

Update: got AOA today! Not sure if it changes anything though

School: West Coast Top 20
Grades: H in all 3rd year clerkships except HP in neuro, H in medicine wards Sub I and heme/onc Sub I
Boards: 260 Step 1, 265 Step 2 CK, CS pass
AOA: Yes
Research: 2 first author pubs, 1 first author abstract at major meeting, middle author abstract at major meeting, many middle author papers from college research.
Letters: 3rd year medicine attending (should be good), large name heme onc attending from Sub I (will be positive but not that personal), Medicine 4th year sub I wards attending (should be fine, hospitalist with 5-7 yrs experience), Chair's letter
ECs: ehh ... homeless clinic, tutoring, whatever
Personal statement: well written but average

Here is my prelim list (15 programs)

UCSF
Stanford
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UW
MGH
BWH
BIDMC
Penn
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
Northwestern
U Chicago

Maybe: WashU/Vandy???

So I'm on a rotation right now and have been discussing applications with all the residents. They all seem to think I should be applying to more programs/more safety programs. When I met with my Dean, he said 15 was fine and that was before I knew I was AOA. Definitely want to make sure I match but I also don't want to spend a bunch of money I don't need to both on the application and on the interviews.

Any other thoughts on how many to apply to? How many interviews to go on?

I know many of those programs are very competitive. I am curious if enough of those are "relative safeties" in comparison to my app that I could be ok with just 15.

Any thoughts always appreciated.

 

[unnumzaan]

So I'm on a rotation right now and have been discussing applications with all the residents. They all seem to think I should be applying to more programs/more safety programs. When I met with my Dean, he said 15 was fine and that was before I knew I was AOA. Definitely want to make sure I match but I also don't want to spend a bunch of money I don't need to both on the application and on the interviews.

Any other thoughts on how many to apply to? How many interviews to go on?

I know many of those programs are very competitive. I am curious if enough of those are "relative safeties" in comparison to my app that I could be ok with just 15.

Any thoughts always appreciated.

You will get interviews at 90-100% of those places.

 

[IMreshopeful]

So I'm on a rotation right now and have been discussing applications with all the residents. They all seem to think I should be applying to more programs/more safety programs. When I met with my Dean, he said 15 was fine and that was before I knew I was AOA. Definitely want to make sure I match but I also don't want to spend a bunch of money I don't need to both on the application and on the interviews.

Any other thoughts on how many to apply to? How many interviews to go on?

I know many of those programs are very competitive. I am curious if enough of those are "relative safeties" in comparison to my app that I could be ok with just 15.

Any thoughts always appreciated.

Oh yeah you’re screwed. Better apply to community programs across the board and pray you match

Seriously wtf

 

[Dro133]

I'm a third year at a top 50 US allopathic. Step 1 in the low 240s, no step 2 yet. So far I've received high pass in IM and pass in surgery. I don't expect to honor many of my rotations, to be honest. I have 10+ papers/abstracts/posters.

Do I have a reasonable shot at mid-upper tier academic programs on the west coast? I.e the UC's minus SF, UW, etc. Interested in heme/onc.

 

[gutonc]

I'm a third year at a top 50 US allopathic. Step 1 in the low 240s, no step 2 yet. So far I've received high pass in IM and pass in surgery. I don't expect to honor many of my rotations, to be honest. I have 10+ papers/abstracts/posters.

Do I have a reasonable shot at mid-upper tier academic programs on the west coast? I.e the UC's minus SF, UW, etc. Interested in heme/onc.

Honor your SubI and bump your 2CK by 10-20 points and you're golden. Even with a HP and a similar 2CK, you'll be fine for a lot of strong west coast programs.

 

[aafisahar]

I want to keep all doors open at this point. But the programs you listed seem very out of reach after my relatively poor step performances. I guess I’m wondering what reach programs tend to be more forgiving academically and will still allow me to purse competitive fellowships.

It's tough to say on the outside. I had worse stats and got some good interviews from programs I thought I had no chance at (Umich, WashU) and got shut out from more than a handful of programs I thought I'd get an interview at (UWisconsin, MCW, UIndiana).

 

[EffervescentX]

Med school rank: mid tier US MD
USMLE Step 1: 228
USMLE Step 2: 250
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: Honors IM, IM sub-I, psych, family, OB/gyn, peds. HP surgery
Research: none
LOR: solid

Would like to keep my options for GI/Cards/Heme/onc open as I haven't decided yet.

How competitive am I for mid tier university programs? How many programs should I apply to?

 

[Anicetus]

Med school rank: mid tier US MD
USMLE Step 1: 228
USMLE Step 2: 250
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: Honors IM, IM sub-I, psych, family, OB/gyn, peds. HP surgery
Research: none
LOR: solid

Would like to keep my options for GI/Cards/Heme/onc open as I haven't decided yet.

How competitive am I for mid tier university programs? How many programs should I apply to?

Solid shot at mid tier programs. Are you restricted by location? You may have to choose between career vs location because some mid tier programs will make you have to really gun and fight to get GI. If you’re restricted by location you’ll have to apply to more than just the mid tier programs in those locations.

 

[EffervescentX]

Solid shot at mid tier programs. Are you restricted by location? You may have to choose between career vs location because some mid tier programs will make you have to really gun and fight to get GI. If you’re restricted by location you’ll have to apply to more than just the mid tier programs in those locations.

Not restricted by location. Would it be a good idea to apply to ~50 programs?

 

[m.d.2019]

Hi everyone. Looking for a little advice on where I might be competitive. I am from an average med school in the Midwest and am looking to stay somewhat close to the Midwest. I will likely pursue a fellowship in the future.
Med school: mid level, Midwest
Step 1: mid 240’s
Step 2: 249 (really wish I had that extra point)
Rank: top 10% (unsure if my school will put this in the MSPE)
Grades: Honors in IM, surgery, neurology, OB, psych. Pass in FM, peds. Expecting Honors in IM Sub-I. (No high pass at my school)
AOA: yes
GHHS: yes
Research: Basically negligible. There’s a minor project I’m helping with, so I’ll avoid a goose egg on ERAS.

My goal is to match to a mid-upper tier university program. I’d also like to eventually be competitive for a solid fellowship. My (tentative) list is below.

Reaches: Vandy, WashU, Northwestern, UChicago, Duke, Pitt (Vandy and WashU are very close to home)
Maybe a reach?: UAB, UMichigan, Emory, UVA.
Unsure: Indiana, Ohio State, Cincinnati, MUSC, UNC, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Louisville, Colorado, Wake, SLU, VCU
Additional options: UT Memphis, Missouri, UMKC, Arkansas, MCG (GA), WVU

- I am particularly interested in my competitiveness for Michigan, UAB, and Vandy.
- Would really appreciate some advice. Thanks so much!

Any advice? Thanks everyone

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hi everyone. Looking for a little advice on where I might be competitive. I am from an average med school in the Midwest and am looking to stay somewhat close to the Midwest. I will likely pursue a fellowship in the future.
Med school: mid level, Midwest
Step 1: mid 240’s
Step 2: 249 (really wish I had that extra point)
Rank: top 10% (unsure if my school will put this in the MSPE)
Grades: Honors in IM, surgery, neurology, OB, psych. Pass in FM, peds. Expecting Honors in IM Sub-I. (No high pass at my school)
AOA: yes
GHHS: yes
Research: Basically negligible. There’s a minor project I’m helping with, so I’ll avoid a goose egg on ERAS.

My goal is to match to a mid-upper tier university program. I’d also like to eventually be competitive for a solid fellowship. My (tentative) list is below.

Reaches: Vandy, WashU, Northwestern, UChicago, Duke, Pitt (Vandy and WashU are very close to home)
Maybe a reach?: UAB, UMichigan, Emory, UVA.
Unsure: Indiana, Ohio State, Cincinnati, MUSC, UNC, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Louisville, Colorado, Wake, SLU, VCU
Additional options: UT Memphis, Missouri, UMKC, Arkansas, MCG (GA), WVU

- I am particularly interested in my competitiveness for Michigan, UAB, and Vandy.
- Would really appreciate some advice. Thanks so much!

You are competitive for UAB. Vandy,Michigan are reaches.

Your list is reasonable:
Reach: Vandy, WashU, NW, UC, Duke, Michigan (probably 1-2 IVs)
Targetsitt,Emory,UVA,UAB,Ohio,UNC,Iowa add Case,Minnesota,Utah (probably ~5 IVs)
Safeties: Indy,Cinci,MUSC,Wisconsin,UK,Louisville,Colorado,Wake,VCU,add Cleveland Clinic,MCW

I wouldn't bother applying to some of the programs you've mentioned. You have a solid application, should match with the list above.

 

[gutonc]

You are competitive for UAB. Vandy,Michigan are reaches.

Your list is reasonable:
Reach: Vandy, WashU, NW, UC, Duke, Michigan (probably 1-2 IVs)
Targetsitt,Emory,UVA,UAB,Ohio,UNC,Iowa add Case,Minnesota,Utah (probably ~5 IVs)
Safeties: Indy,Cinci,MUSC,Wisconsin,UK,Louisville,Colorado,Wake,VCU,add Cleveland Clinic,MCW

I wouldn't bother applying to some of the programs you've mentioned. You have a solid application, should match with the list above.

Agree with everything except Wisco and Colorado (and maybe Indy) being safeties. Both are generally more selective than most/all of the programs in the "Target" list.

 

[m.d.2019]

Hi everyone. Looking for a little advice on where I might be competitive. I am from an average med school in the Midwest and am looking to stay somewhat close to the Midwest. I will likely pursue a fellowship in the future.
Med school: mid level, Midwest
Step 1: mid 240’s
Step 2: 249 (really wish I had that extra point)
Rank: top 10% (unsure if my school will put this in the MSPE)
Grades: Honors in IM, surgery, neurology, OB, psych. Pass in FM, peds. Expecting Honors in IM Sub-I. (No high pass at my school)
AOA: yes
GHHS: yes
Research: Basically negligible. There’s a minor project I’m helping with, so I’ll avoid a goose egg on ERAS.

My goal is to match to a mid-upper tier university program. I’d also like to eventually be competitive for a solid fellowship. My (tentative) list is below.

Reaches: Vandy, WashU, Northwestern, UChicago, Duke, Pitt (Vandy and WashU are very close to home)
Maybe a reach?: UAB, UMichigan, Emory, UVA.
Unsure: Indiana, Ohio State, Cincinnati, MUSC, UNC, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Louisville, Colorado, Wake, SLU, VCU
Additional options: UT Memphis, Missouri, UMKC, Arkansas, MCG (GA), WVU

- I am particularly interested in my competitiveness for Michigan, UAB, and Vandy.
- Would really appreciate some advice. Thanks so much!

You are competitive for UAB. Vandy,Michigan are reaches.

Your list is reasonable:
Reach: Vandy, WashU, NW, UC, Duke, Michigan (probably 1-2 IVs)
Targetsitt,Emory,UVA,UAB,Ohio,UNC,Iowa add Case,Minnesota,Utah (probably ~5 IVs)
Safeties: Indy,Cinci,MUSC,Wisconsin,UK,Louisville,Colorado,Wake,VCU,add Cleveland Clinic,MCW

I wouldn't bother applying to some of the programs you've mentioned. You have a solid application, should match with the list above.

Agree with everything except Wisco and Colorado (and maybe Indy) being safeties. Both are generally more selective than most/all of the programs in the "Target" list.

Thanks @MyTachyBradyHeart and @gutonc for the advice. Maybe I can luck into an IV from Michigan and/or Vandy. But otherwise, it seems I am in the neighborhood of where I should be. Although Utah and Minnesota are getting to be a long way from home.

One last question - Are there any other programs you suggest I consider in the target/reach category? Specifically, I am unsure where Rush, Loyola, UIC, LSU, Tulane, Florida, Mayo-jacksonville would fall. But I am all ears for any suggestions. I don't want to overlook anywhere that I might be a good fit. Thanks again for the advice; it is extremely helpful.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks @MyTachyBradyHeart and @gutonc for the advice. Maybe I can luck into an IV from Michigan and/or Vandy. But otherwise, it seems I am in the neighborhood of where I should be. Although Utah and Minnesota are getting to be a long way from home.

One last question - Are there any other programs you suggest I consider in the target/reach category? Specifically, I am unsure where Rush, Loyola, UIC, LSU, Tulane, Florida, Mayo-jacksonville would fall. But I am all ears for any suggestions. I don't want to overlook anywhere that I might be a good fit. Thanks again for the advice; it is extremely helpful.

I don't think you really need any of those programs. But if you were to add some of them, I'd say, Rush, UIC, UF and maybe Tulane (not sure how well they've recovered from Katrina, but haven't really been paying attention). Avoid Miracle Whip and Loyola. If you can live in Baton Rouge, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with LSU, but you've got a great shot at the rest of the places on your list so I don't think you need that on your list.

 

[Harvey Harvardson]

Hey guys, I need a bit of help trimming down my list.. I've currently got 72 programs on my list and I feel like theres a good amount that I can cut out. I'm just looking for a program that will provide good training in a supportive environment with good ancillary staff (I know, I need help taking some NY programs out). I was thinking 50 programs would probably be a reasonable amount for me.

USMLE: Step 1: 243, Step 2: 248
COMLEX: 1: 651: 2: 641
COMLEX PE: passed
LORs: good
SSP
Clinical: All H's except HP in surgery and geriatrics
No research

Here are my programs. I've bolded the ones I plan to apply to for sure (I know they include reaches). I need help trimming out the non-bolded ones!

Cali
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Scripps Mercy
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (LA)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (Oakland)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (SF)
Kaiser Permanente Northern Cali (Santa Clara)
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC/LAC+USC Medical Center program
UCSD
Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green
St Marys Hospital MC
St Mary Medical Center Program
Alameda Health System-Highland Hospital Program
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center
UC Riverside
Arrowhead Regional MC
OPTI West/Hemet Valley Medical Center program
OPTI West/College Medical Center Long Beach Program
OPTI West/West Anaheim Medical Center Program
White Memorial
Huntington Memorial
California Pacific MC
Loma Linda


DC
Georgetown
GWU

Florida
University of Miami Miller school of medicine/holy cross
USF
University of Miami

NC
Carolinas Medical Center Program

NJ
Rutgers NJ medical school program
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
Rutgers NJ medical school/trinitas
St Peter’s University Hospital/Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
New York medical college at St Michael’s Medical Center program
Newark Beth Israel medical center (jersey city) program

NY
Montefiore/albert Einstein (New Rochelle)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein college of medicine (wakefield)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein (moses and weiler)
NYU Winthrop
NY-presbyterian/queens
Coney Island
Flushing hospital
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at mather
Zucker school of medicinie at Hofstra/northwell at lenox hill
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at staten island
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at forest hills
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell
Brooklyn hospital center program
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai/St Lukes-Roosevelts
SUNY
Stony brook
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai (queens)
Icahn school of medicine at mt sinai (Bronx)
Jacobi
Wycoff heighhts

OR
Legacy
OHSU
Providence
Providence/St Vincent

PA
Jefferson
Albert Einstein
PA hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
Drexel
Temple
UPenn
Sidney Kimmel medical college at Thomas Jefferson university/TJUH
Nazareth

WA
Virginia Mason
UW

 

[W19]

Updated with step 2, and some schools I am considering. Any advice or help with be appreciated.

DO school, top 1/2 of class
Step 1: 219
Step 2: 246
Level 1: 515
Level 2: 635
No research or significant ECs

Here are some schools I am considering... Do I have a chance at any of these or are these all reaches?

Cali: UC Riverside, UC Irvine, UCSF Fresno, Scripps clinic & mercy, Harbor, Olive View, Loma Linda, Kaisers?
Midwest: Uni of Minnesota, Uni of Kansas, Uni of Missouri-Columbia, St Louis Uni
Texas: UT Medical Branch, UT Austin, Baylor COM, UT health, and Texas Tech Center
Florida: Uni of Miami MIller/Holy Cross, UCF, UF, UF COM Jacksonville, USF, FSU COM

I am also trying to figure out if I need to apply to 40-50+ programs? Or if 25-35 would be safe?

I would apply to close to 50... Not sure you are competitive for USF, UF and Baylor. Not familiar with California program so I can't comment on them...

 

[lulu09]

Hey guys, I need a bit of help trimming down my list.. I've currently got 72 programs on my list and I feel like theres a good amount that I can cut out. I'm just looking for a program that will provide good training in a supportive environment with good ancillary staff (I know, I need help taking some NY programs out). I was thinking 50 programs would probably be a reasonable amount for me.

USMLE: Step 1: 243, Step 2: 248
COMLEX: 1: 651: 2: 641
COMLEX PE: passed
LORs: good
SSP
Clinical: All H's except HP in surgery and geriatrics
No research

Here are my programs. I've bolded the ones I plan to apply to for sure (I know they include reaches). I need help trimming out the non-bolded ones!

Cali
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Scripps Mercy
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (LA)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (Oakland)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (SF)
Kaiser Permanente Northern Cali (Santa Clara)
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC/LAC+USC Medical Center program
UCSD
Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green
St Marys Hospital MC
St Mary Medical Center Program
Alameda Health System-Highland Hospital Program
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center
UC Riverside
Arrowhead Regional MC
OPTI West/Hemet Valley Medical Center program
OPTI West/College Medical Center Long Beach Program
OPTI West/West Anaheim Medical Center Program
White Memorial
Huntington Memorial
California Pacific MC
Loma Linda


DC
Georgetown
GWU

Florida
University of Miami Miller school of medicine/holy cross
USF
University of Miami

NC
Carolinas Medical Center Program

NJ
Rutgers NJ medical school program
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
Rutgers NJ medical school/trinitas
St Peter’s University Hospital/Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
New York medical college at St Michael’s Medical Center program
Newark Beth Israel medical center (jersey city) program

NY
Montefiore/albert Einstein (New Rochelle)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein college of medicine (wakefield)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein (moses and weiler)
NYU Winthrop
NY-presbyterian/queens
Coney Island
Flushing hospital
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at mather
Zucker school of medicinie at Hofstra/northwell at lenox hill
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at staten island
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at forest hills
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell
Brooklyn hospital center program
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai/St Lukes-Roosevelts
SUNY
Stony brook
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai (queens)
Icahn school of medicine at mt sinai (Bronx)
Jacobi
Wycoff heighhts

OR
Legacy
OHSU
Providence
Providence/St Vincent

PA
Jefferson
Albert Einstein
PA hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
Drexel
Temple
UPenn
Sidney Kimmel medical college at Thomas Jefferson university/TJUH
Nazareth

WA
Virginia Mason
UW

I don't really know DO biases of these programs so I can't really comment in that regard, but just by going based on your Step 1 for Cali and NYC...

Scripps Mercy and Kaiser SC are really weak programs, and I would definitely add CPMC, Valley, UC Riverside, and Loma Linda which are on your unbolded list above.

There are some bad NYC programs on there - Coney Island, Sinai Bronx, Wyckoff. I would probably stick to the main Northwell satellite at Lenox Hill and call it a day. You should definitely apply to Downstate, Stony Brook, Jacobi, and Sinai West (St Luke's-Roosevelt).

I feel you should be able to get into some kind of academic program, just not the superstar ones, so I think you can probably cut out half of the community programs above (a list that includes UW and Penn alongside small community programs in Brooklyn is very odd). I would probably try to figure out from the program lists who has a record of taking DO in weeding out the community programs.

 

[Pseudofed]

Med school rank: Low-tier midwest US MD
USMLE Step 1: 255+
USMLE Step 2: 265+
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: Top 25%
AOA: Yes
Research: Abstracts x 4, case reports, and a weak 4th authorship on a good paper.
LOR: Fair, 1 from university outside midwest.

My main concern is my low-tier medical school + weak research list. I only have ties to the midwest but am willing, and prefer, to leave it. My struggle is balancing the reach schools with enough "safe" schools for comfort, when I really have no idea what reach vs safe is coming from my program - our students historically stay in the area.

Currently I have:
Reach: Hopkins, Duke, MGH, Brigham, Michigan, WashU, Penn, UCSF
Target: Mayo, UTSW, UWash, Northwestern, BID, UChicago, Stanford, Emory, Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, UNC, Baylor, CU, UVA, BU
Safer: HCMC, Utah, USC (South Carolina), Tufts, Temple, Wake, OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota

Thanks for any input.

 

[Spil022]

Non-US IMG here, need visa.

252/259/pass/2 usce/yog 2016/ no research.

If i apply to 140 programs, how many IVs can i i expect?

And what university (if any) programs do I have chance for IVs?

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hey guys, I need a bit of help trimming down my list.. I've currently got 72 programs on my list and I feel like theres a good amount that I can cut out. I'm just looking for a program that will provide good training in a supportive environment with good ancillary staff (I know, I need help taking some NY programs out). I was thinking 50 programs would probably be a reasonable amount for me.

USMLE: Step 1: 243, Step 2: 248
COMLEX: 1: 651: 2: 641
COMLEX PE: passed
LORs: good
SSP
Clinical: All H's except HP in surgery and geriatrics
No research

Here are my programs. I've bolded the ones I plan to apply to for sure (I know they include reaches). I need help trimming out the non-bolded ones!

Cali
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Scripps Mercy
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (LA)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (Oakland)
Kaiser Permanente Southhern California (SF)
Kaiser Permanente Northern Cali (Santa Clara)
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC/LAC+USC Medical Center program
UCSD
Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green
St Marys Hospital MC
St Mary Medical Center Program
Alameda Health System-Highland Hospital Program
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center
UC Riverside
Arrowhead Regional MC
OPTI West/Hemet Valley Medical Center program
OPTI West/College Medical Center Long Beach Program
OPTI West/West Anaheim Medical Center Program
White Memorial
Huntington Memorial
California Pacific MC
Loma Linda


DC
Georgetown
GWU

Florida
University of Miami Miller school of medicine/holy cross
USF
University of Miami

NC
Carolinas Medical Center Program

NJ
Rutgers NJ medical school program
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
Rutgers NJ medical school/trinitas
St Peter’s University Hospital/Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
New York medical college at St Michael’s Medical Center program
Newark Beth Israel medical center (jersey city) program

NY
Montefiore/albert Einstein (New Rochelle)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein college of medicine (wakefield)
Montefiore medical center/albert Einstein (moses and weiler)
NYU Winthrop
NY-presbyterian/queens
Coney Island
Flushing hospital
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at mather
Zucker school of medicinie at Hofstra/northwell at lenox hill
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at staten island
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell at forest hills
Zucker school of medicine at Hofstra/northwell
Brooklyn hospital center program
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai/St Lukes-Roosevelts
SUNY
Stony brook
Icahn school of medicine at Mt sinai (queens)
Icahn school of medicine at mt sinai (Bronx)
Jacobi
Wycoff heighhts

OR
Legacy
OHSU
Providence
Providence/St Vincent

PA
Jefferson
Albert Einstein
PA hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
Drexel
Temple
UPenn
Sidney Kimmel medical college at Thomas Jefferson university/TJUH
Nazareth

WA
Virginia Mason
UW

It's your money, but there is a difference between reach and dreaming. I would not waste money applying to places like Penn,UCSD,UW; there are also a number of upper mid tier programs in your list that won't look at your application, but they are marginally more justifiable.

I don't mean to be overly harsh. One day (this probably has happened already), a very well qualified DO applicant with multiple publications and stellar resume will think he/she can match at a top 20 institution and end up SOAPing.

Med school rank: Low-tier midwest US MD
USMLE Step 1: 255+
USMLE Step 2: 265+
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: Top 25%
AOA: Yes
Research: Abstracts x 4, case reports, and a weak 4th authorship on a good paper.
LOR: Fair, 1 from university outside midwest.

My main concern is my low-tier medical school + weak research list. I only have ties to the midwest but am willing, and prefer, to leave it. My struggle is balancing the reach schools with enough "safe" schools for comfort, when I really have no idea what reach vs safe is coming from my program - our students historically stay in the area.

Currently I have:
Reach: Hopkins, Duke, MGH, Brigham, Michigan, WashU, Penn, UCSF
Target: Mayo, UTSW, UWash, Northwestern, BID, UChicago, Stanford, Emory, Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, UNC, Baylor, CU, UVA, BU
Safer: HCMC, Utah, USC (South Carolina), Tufts, Temple, Wake, OHSU, Iowa, Minnesota

Thanks for any input.

BID/Stanford/Northwestern fall into the reach category. You have a shot at matching somewhere on your reach list, but it is a total crapshoot and don't be surprised if you don't match or interview there. Since you are applying broadly while avoiding LA/NY, I would add Vanderbilt (reach), Jefferson (target), and Case Western (target, better IM program than Cleveland Clinic). You probably don't need so many safeties. I would take out HCMC (I had to google this one), Temple, Wake (unless you really want to live in Winston-Salem).

Non-US IMG here, need visa.

252/259/pass/2 usce/yog 2016/ no research.

If i apply to 140 programs, how many IVs can i i expect?

And what university (if any) programs do I have chance for IVs?

You should match at a mid-tier university programs who take IMGs. Can give more specific comments if you have an actual list...

 

[polylux]

It's your money, but there is a difference between reach and dreaming. I would not waste money applying to places like Penn,UCSD,UW; there are also a number of upper mid tier programs in your list that won't look at your application, but they are marginally more justifiable.

UCSD interviewed DOs this past cycle at least. I can't speak for Penn or UW though.

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

UCSD interviewed DOs this past cycle at least. I can't speak for Penn or UW though.

DOs haven't matched there in years. Money is just money. OP will apply to programs that he/she wants to. Just giving my 2c