Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[Señor S]

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UNC, Duke, Wake, Vanderbilt, UVA, Emory, U Louisville, UAB, UM Jackson, LSU-NO, USF-tampa, Mayo-Jacksonville, Baylor, UTSW, MUSC, Tulane, UTHSC-San Antonio, UTMB, Miami-miller, medical college of Georgia

Not in my geographical area of interest but either I or my wife have family in these areas: Cleveland clinic, OHSU, case western, (+other ohio schools), colorado, oregon, mayo-arizona, arizona state.

I'd guess you get rejected at Vanderbilt and Duke (although definitely still worth the application), possibly/probably get interviews at UNC, Emory and UTSW and definitely get interviews at all the rest of the Southern ones. OHSU and Colorado are fairly competitive and while I think you're a good candidate for them I would definitely send them an e-mail stressing your ties as they may reject you on the basis that they think you're just spamming applications. I think you'll get interviews at all the rest of your non-Southern ones.

What can I do to improve my application?

In order of importance:

1. Honor IM
2. Gun for AOA as it seems you may still be in the running for this
3. Take CK early (i.e., June/July) and try to do well (>250)

But even without any of that you're still a strong applicant.

 

[tantacles]

I'd guess you get rejected at Vanderbilt and Duke (although definitely still worth the application), possibly/probably get interviews at UNC, Emory and UTSW and definitely get interviews at all the rest of the Southern ones. OHSU and Colorado are fairly competitive and while I think you're a good candidate for them I would definitely send them an e-mail stressing your ties as they may reject you on the basis that they think you're just spamming applications. I think you'll get interviews at all the rest of your non-Southern ones.



In order of importance:

1. Honor IM
2. Gun for AOA as it seems you may still be in the running for this
3. Take CK early (i.e., June/July) and try to do well (>250)

But even without any of that you're still a strong applicant.

I would never suggest taking CK that early unless you have no other good time to take it. I would recommend taking it somewhere between September 1-15 as this way you have a choice of whether you want to submit your score before interviews. If it goes badly, it's a bad choice to take it early as you have no choice in terms of submission - places will see it before you interview.


Large dogs

 

[Señor S]

I would never suggest taking CK that early unless you have no other good time to take it. I would recommend taking it somewhere between September 1-15 as this way you have a choice of whether you want to submit your score before interviews. If it goes badly, it's a bad choice to take it early as you have no choice in terms of submission - places will see it before you interview.

It's a risk but I'd rather take it right after 3rd year when everything is still fairly fresh. I also think that a lot of the higher-end places on OP's list may not invite him without a Step 2 on hand as his Step 1 is probably on the lower end for them.

 

[tantacles]

It's a risk but I'd rather take it right after 3rd year when everything is still fairly fresh. I also think that a lot of the higher-end places on OP's list may not invite him without a Step 2 on hand as his Step 1 is probably on the lower end for them.

That might be right. But if OP bombs step 2, then s/he may have ruined his/her chances at many places that would have liked him/her before. If s/he takes it in September, it's possible to at least temporarily hide that score until interviews come out. If it goes well, you can submit.

The fact is that if you had a mediocre performance on step 1, you're likely to have the same on step 2.


Large dogs

 

[Señor S]

That might be right. But if OP bombs step 2, then s/he may have ruined his/her chances at many places that would have liked him/her before. If s/he takes it in September, it's possible to at least temporarily hide that score until interviews come out. If it goes well, you can submit.

The fact is that if you had a mediocre performance on step 1, you're likely to have the same on step 2.


Large dogs

He's 3/4 for honoring rotations though, so presumably he's done pretty well on shelves. I think it's just a question of which risk do you take? OP will have to decide that for himself.

 

[dicer]

Med school: One of the Univ of Cali's
USMLE Step 1: 239
USMLE Step 2: 245
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: probably bottom quartile
AOA: nope
Grades: Pass in all 3rd year clerkships 🙁, but honors in medicine Sub-I
Research: Currently on a research year in a basic science lab. Have one paper (middle author) and maybe one more in the pipeline, in addition to 2 poster presentations
ECs: Leadership roles in school clubs and free clinic.
LORs: Should be good, hopefully.

I realize I'm probably a middle of the road applicant but what chance do you think I have at schools like Stanford, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, UCD, UW, OHSU, Case, NYU, Cornell, Columbia, UChicago, Northwestern, etc? What type of schools should I set as my target schools?

Thanks!

Edit: I felt like I should clarify that I'd really like to stay on the west coast but would be ok with some strong east coast programs that would give me good training and have a reputation for sending its residents to good fellowships. Please give a brotha some advice or at least some form of tough love or encouragement. Thanks again SDN friends.. You've been here for me since I first decided to go into medicine.

 

[Señor S]

Med school: One of the Univ of Cali's
USMLE Step 1: 239
USMLE Step 2: 245
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: probably bottom quartile
AOA: nope
Grades: Pass in all 3rd year clerkships 🙁, but honors in medicine Sub-I
Research: Currently on a research year in a basic science lab. Have one paper (middle author) and maybe one more in the pipeline, in addition to 2 poster presentations
ECs: Leadership roles in school clubs and free clinic.
LORs: Should be good, hopefully.

I realize I'm probably a middle of the road applicant but what chance do you think I have at schools like Stanford, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, UCD, UW, OHSU, Case, NYU, Cornell, Columbia, UChicago, Northwestern, etc? What type of schools should I set as my target schools?

Stanford, UCLA, UW, Cornell, Columbia, UChicago and NW are major reaches. I don't think you have a shot at any of them.

UCSD, NYU, OHSU are still reach-y but possible. You could get all of them or none of them.

UCI, UCD and Case I think you have a good shot at. You need to add a lot more programs though. USC, Utah and Colorado are West Coast-ish. UIC, Rush and Loyola are in Chicago which I guess you'd be alright living in? In the Northeast you have BU, Tufts, Brown, Monte, Jefferson, Temple, Georgetown and Maryland in the larger cities. Also consider adding more community programs around you.

 

[dicer]

Wow, thanks for the dose of reality..

Is IM more competitive at the top programs than other specialties? The reason I ask is that most of my friends who are current 4th years applying to EM with similar and/or lower stats who received interviews at Stanford, UCSF, UChic, etc... That kind of gave me a dose of hope.

 

[Sartorial]

Wow, thanks for the dose of reality..

Is IM more competitive at the top programs than other specialties? The reason I ask is that most of my friends who are current 4th years applying to EM with similar and/or lower stats who received interviews at Stanford, UCSF, UChic, etc... That kind of gave me a dose of hope.

Maybe not more competitive, but yes, extremely competitive. Competitiveness in EM is very different actually. Prestigious academic programs are generally considered less rigorous training than county / trauma heavy programs.

 

[gutonc]

Wow, thanks for the dose of reality..

Is IM more competitive at the top programs than other specialties? The reason I ask is that most of my friends who are current 4th years applying to EM with similar and/or lower stats who received interviews at Stanford, UCSF, UChic, etc... That kind of gave me a dose of hope.

Top IM programs are as competitive as any Top program in any other specialty.

You also need to realize that a program that is super competitive in one specialty may not be so in another.

To go along with your example, programs that are routinely considered "Top 10" in EM (Carolinas, Cincy, Highland, Hennepin) aren't places most "top" IM applicants have even heard of. Likewise, Columbia, Duke, MGH, BWH, Hopkins, NW are places with mediocre EM programs at best.

So forget what your ENT and radiology friends are talking about.

Also, unless the "one of the UC's" ends with SF or LA, your app is pretty average (not bad...average) for IM. Your research year and pubs may get you a reach interview or 2 but you're not getting all "Top X" offers.

As a person (albeit dated) example:
Mediocre Step scores (average for when I took them)
PhD with pubs
AOA
Mediocre State School
HP on IM and Sub-I
IV offers from: Cornell, MSSM, UW, OHSU, UCLA (Reagan...it was just UCLA back then), UChicago, MGH, WashU
Rejections from: UCSF, Stanford, NW, Columbia, BWH, NYU, Duke

 

[Señor S]

Wow, thanks for the dose of reality..

Is IM more competitive at the top programs than other specialties? The reason I ask is that most of my friends who are current 4th years applying to EM with similar and/or lower stats who received interviews at Stanford, UCSF, UChic, etc... That kind of gave me a dose of hope.

Echoing gutonc, as a guy with a 250 Step 1/265 Step 2, AOA but from a mediocre state school I got rejected from all your "major reaches" plus NYU. IM can be very competitive especially when you're talking about top academic programs in highly desirable locations.

Your regional preferences are totally reasonable and understandable, however if you're considering Case I think it would be worth considering other good academic programs in fly-over country as there are many programs of similar strength in similar/better locations (unless your only criteria is being in a big city; it's kind of hard to tell from your initial list). Also while this board normally advises against aways if you really have your heart set on some of those "major reach" places you might consider doing an away at one or more of them; I doubt your stats would make you an auto-reject and if you were to really shine on a rotation (admittedly easier said than done) I think you'd get some consideration.

 

[Shark7500]

He's 3/4 for honoring rotations though, so presumably he's done pretty well on shelves. I think it's just a question of which risk do you take? OP will have to decide that for himself.

Well, I'm nearing the tail end of my IM clerkship and it looks like I have a pretty good shot at honoring it. From an eval standpoint, I think I'll be solid. Will just have to crush the shelf exam tomorrow. I think I'll definitely take the risk of the early step 2. I have to admit, the "mediocre step 1 == likely mediocre step 2" is quite motivating - Hopefully I can get a score in the 260s if I work hard. Thanks for your input, guys.

Echoing gutonc, as a guy with a 250 Step 1/265 Step 2, AOA but from a mediocre state school I got rejected from all your "major reaches" plus NYU. IM can be very competitive especially when you're talking about top academic programs in highly desirable locations.

Your regional preferences are totally reasonable and understandable, however if you're considering Case I think it would be worth considering other good academic programs in fly-over country as there are many programs of similar strength in similar/better locations (unless your only criteria is being in a big city; it's kind of hard to tell from your initial list). Also while this board normally advises against aways if you really have your heart set on some of those "major reach" places you might consider doing an away at one or more of them; I doubt your stats would make you an auto-reject at any of those places and if you were to really shine on a rotation (admittedly easier said than done) I think you'd get some consideration.

Damn. 250/265/AOA with so many rejections?? IM gets ridiculously competitive at the top...

 

[Señor S]

Damn. 250/265/AOA with so many rejections?? IM gets ridiculously competitive at the top...

Honestly I think my results were a bit abnormal, however all of the other AOA IM people in my class had roughly the same pattern of interviews and rejections. Probably a lack of quality research + school name was what held us back. On the other hand I still got a lot of good interviews and am certainly not crying any blues.

The problem with OP's list is that the places he listed are the top academic programs in the most desirable 4 or 5 cities in the country, a space which is an absolute seller's market; those programs can get pretty much anybody they want. If he wants a shot at a "top-tier place" with a big name--aside from doing aways as I mentioned--I think his luck will be better in places not SF, LA, Seattle, Boston, NYC or Chicago.

BTW a 240 Step 1 is not at all "mediocre." I think it's easy to lose perspective on this board but the truth is most people would kill to have that score.

 

[itseasyummk]

Honestly I think my results were a bit abnormal, however all of the other AOA IM people in my class had roughly the same pattern of interviews and rejections. Probably a lack of quality research + school name was what held us back. On the other hand I still got a lot of good interviews and am certainly not crying any blues.

The problem with OP's list is that the places he listed are the top academic programs in the most desirable 4 or 5 cities in the country, a space which is an absolute seller's market; those programs can get pretty much anybody they want. If he wants a shot at a "top-tier place" with a big name--aside from doing aways as I mentioned--I think his luck will be better in places not SF, LA, Seattle, Boston, NYC or Chicago.

BTW a 240 Step 1 is not at all "mediocre." I think it's easy to lose perspective on this board but the truth is most people would kill to have that score.

Just to reiterate this point, I pretty much had the exact same response of no love from any of the aforementioned "major reaches" with similar stats (Step 1 253, Step 2 254, AOA, honors in IM and SubI) and also from a mediocre to lower tier school. I could not agree more that quality of research and school brand name is a bigger factor than most people realize, though I obviously could have done better on Step 2. The only people (other AOAer's) from my institution that truly broke this mold were those from exceptionally diverse backgrounds/circumstances or those who applied to IM-Primary Care.

Just as Senor mentioned tho, their are plenty of good to great programs not in the traditional bigger cities that will show you love and there is always no harm in applying to reaches, but it may be wise to temper ones expectations.

 

[medpride]

Ofcourse imgs match into Florida programs. There are many programs which are img friendly in Florida. I myself interviewed at couple of them. Continue your quest. Good Luck!

 

[Ramo711]

.

 

[235009]

AMG mid-tier school
Step 1: 245
Step 2: TBD
Third Quartile
No extracurriculars to speak of. Might start research but not enough time to really matter when I submit in 6 months

Looking at mid-tier IM:

NY: SUNY downstate, Montefoire, Stonybrook
IL: Rush, UIC, Loyola
DC: Georgetown, George Washington
Northeast: BU, Tufts, Jefferson, Temple
Midwest: SLU, Ohio State, UMinnesota, MCWisconsin hospitals
South: UT Houston, Wakeforest, UMiami/Jackson, UF

I should probably add several community programs?

Almost certainly too late for research at this point. Figure out your geographic preference then make a real list based on that preference rather than living a bunch of programs semi-randomly


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Señor S]

I should probably add several community programs?

Wouldn't be a terrible idea although I'd bet good money on you to match with the list you gave. Agree with MT that it's a bit random though. Do you have any regional preference? Do you have to be in a big city (I'm assuming not given that you listed WF)? There are a bunch of other good places in the areas you mentioned that you'd probably be competitive for: just off the top of my head there's Wisconsin, Indiana, Case Western and Iowa in the Midwest and UVa, UAB, MUSC and Baylor in the South.

 

[TripleOpIMXD]

Hi everyone. I'm a USMD M3 at a low tier TX medical school
Rank: Bottom 1/4 Quartile
STEP I: 220
STEP II: Predicting 230
Research: 1 basic science research publication due in med school

Our school grading is H/P/F
Passes on Pediatrics, OBGYN, IMED, FM, Surgery
Currently on PSYC but expecting a P as well
I have great clinical comments but NBME scores of 10th-30th percentile consistently in all exams which tanked my final grade.

Through the course of the year I was really open to all specialities. However I am starting to be more interested in IMED. Everyone around me going into IM have 230+ STEPs, middle of the road ranking, or H on their IM rotation. I have neither. I was thinking of pursuing fellowship later on. Have I dug myself a big hole?

1) Can I still match into an academic IM program?
2) How bad does a IM NBME score of 10th percentile and a P in IMED look to program directors?
3) Has my bottom 1/4 quartile rank at a low tier school, low IMED final grade, and below average STEP I doomed me for match at urban cities in TX and NY??

I am really anxious and don't know if this is the right decision anymore. Just wanted to hear some feedback. Thanks in advance

 

[TripleOpIMXD]

Hi everyone. I'm a USMD M3 at a low tier TX medical school
Rank: Bottom 1/4 Quartile
STEP I: 220
STEP II: Predicting 230
Research: 1 basic science research publication due in med school

Our school grading is H/P/F
Passes on Pediatrics, OBGYN, IMED, FM, Surgery
Currently on PSYC but expecting a P as well
I have great clinical comments but NBME scores of 10th-30th percentile consistently in all exams which tanked my final grade.

Through the course of the year I was really open to all specialities. However I am starting to be more interested in IMED. Everyone around me going into IM have 230+ STEPs, middle of the road ranking, or H on their IM rotation. I have neither. I was thinking of pursuing fellowship later on. Have I dug myself a big hole?

1) Can I still match into an academic IM program?
2) How bad does a IM NBME score of 10th percentile and a P in IMED look to program directors?
3) Has my bottom 1/4 quartile rank at a low tier school, low IMED final grade, and below average STEP I doomed me for match at urban cities in TX and NY??

I am really anxious and don't know if this is the right decision anymore. Just wanted to hear some feedback. Thanks in advance

BUMP. Anyone?

 

[Señor S]

Hi everyone. I'm a USMD M3 at a low tier TX medical school
Rank: Bottom 1/4 Quartile
STEP I: 220
STEP II: Predicting 230
Research: 1 basic science research publication due in med school

Our school grading is H/P/F
Passes on Pediatrics, OBGYN, IMED, FM, Surgery
Currently on PSYC but expecting a P as well
I have great clinical comments but NBME scores of 10th-30th percentile consistently in all exams which tanked my final grade.

Through the course of the year I was really open to all specialities. However I am starting to be more interested in IMED. Everyone around me going into IM have 230+ STEPs, middle of the road ranking, or H on their IM rotation. I have neither. I was thinking of pursuing fellowship later on. Have I dug myself a big hole?

1) Can I still match into an academic IM program?
2) How bad does a IM NBME score of 10th percentile and a P in IMED look to program directors?
3) Has my bottom 1/4 quartile rank at a low tier school, low IMED final grade, and below average STEP I doomed me for match at urban cities in TX and NY??

I am really anxious and don't know if this is the right decision anymore. Just wanted to hear some feedback. Thanks in advance

1. Yes
2. Not great although a little more context is needed (namely what's the grade distribution at your school and do they actually disclose your NBME results)?
3. Depends on what you mean by "urban cities" and how set you are on an academic program. If you mean Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, Monte, NYU, UTSW and Baylor then yes, I think your chances are pretty bad. If you mean UTSA and URochester that's probably a different story. Depending on your career/fellowship interests I would apply more broadly though.

 

[TripleOpIMXD]

1. Yes
2. Not great although a little more context is needed (namely what's the grade distribution at your school and do they actually disclose your NBME results)?
3. Depends on what you mean by "urban cities" and how set you are on an academic program. If you mean Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, Monte, NYU, UTSW and Baylor then yes, I think your chances are pretty bad. If you mean UTSA and URochester that's probably a different story. Depending on your career/fellowship interests I would apply more broadly though.

My number one choice in NY is Northshore LIJ. Can't really gauge on the competitive of that IM program. It's like in the middle right? Do you know? For TX I am focused on really UT-Houston. Again, that seems like in the middle? Are you familiar with that program?

I definitely will apply more broadly. Hoping to submit at least 50 apps. Or is that too much? Too less?

Thanks and appreciate it.

 

[Señor S]

My number one choice in NY is Northshore LIJ. Can't really gauge on the competitive of that IM program. It's like in the middle right? Do you know? For TX I am focused on really UT-Houston. Again, that seems like in the middle? Are you familiar with that program?

I definitely will apply more broadly. Hoping to submit at least 50 apps. Or is that too much? Too less?

Thanks and appreciate it.

Honestly don't know much about either of those places. I will say that in your case Step 2 may be a big factor so you really should go all out studying for it (including figuring out why you're doing so poorly on shelves and...not doing that). 50 might be a little much but if you're very concerned with program reputation it might be worthwhile providing it's a well-picked 50.

 

[Salaam]

Hi, I'm an MS3 wanting to go into GIM/PC, so very interested in the PC tracks at various programs.
Med School: top 30 south
STEP I: 260
STEP II: 265
Grades: Pretty split. H: IM, FM, OBGYN, HP: Pedi Sub-I*, P: Pedi, Neuro, Surgery
*thought I was going to apply med-peds at the time. unfortunately you can only do 1 sub-i at my school, so unable to do IM
AOA: nope
Research: 2 pubs (1 first author, 1 second author) non-IM fields
Extracurriculars: MPH, a couple leadership positions, some advocacy work at a couple non-profits

Here's my current list:

Reach: Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, NYU, MGH, BWH, BIDMC, BMC, Penn, Yale, UTSW, BCM

Other: Monte, Tufts, Brown, TJU, Temple, Drexel, MMC, Georgetown, UTHSCA, UTMB, Univ of Arizona, UNM

Any holes in the list? Too top heavy? Should I add more? Thanks!

 

[AnalisCanalis]

Hi, I'm an MS3 wanting to go into GIM/PC, so very interested in the PC tracks at various programs.
Med School: BCM
STEP I: 260
STEP II: 265
Grades: Pretty split. H: IM, FM, OBGYN, HP: Pedi Sub-I*, P: Pedi, Neuro, Surgery
*thought I was going to apply med-peds at the time. unfortunately you can only do 1 sub-i at my school, so unable to do IM
AOA: nope
Research: 2 pubs (1 first author, 1 second author) non-IM fields
Extracurriculars: MPH, a couple leadership positions, some advocacy work at a couple non-profits

Here's my current list:

Reach: Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, NYU, MGH, BWH, BIDMC, BMC, Penn, Yale, UTSW, BCM

Other: Monte, Tufts, Brown, TJU, Temple, Drexel, MMC, Georgetown, UTHSCA, UTMB, Univ of Arizona, UNM

Any holes in the list? Too top heavy? Should I add more? Thanks!

Unless you have any red flags, the "reaches" you listed seem like very reasonable programs with your app.

 

[John Snow]

Hey, Im an MS3 who's now officially decided on IM. I just wanted to know what your opinions are of my preliminary list.

Top 40 US allopathic School in NE
Step 1: 250+
Step 2: will take at the end of Sept.
MS1/2: mix of A's and B's, no honors
MS3: A's so far, no honors, but haven't done IM or gen surg yet
Research: some bench work between M1 and M2, working on a project now that will hopefully get me published before applications
AOA: unlikely
Rank: probably top 40%

List:
Reaches: Dartmouth, Yale, Columbia, MGH, BGW, UTSW, Penn, JHU
Appropriate: UVA, Maryland, Beth Israel, UNC, Mayo, Baylor, Pitt,
Safety: not really sure how to approach this, any suggestions?

I don't have too much of a location preference, but I was wondering what you all thought my chances at schools in TX are? I know UTSW is a reach, but how about Baylor or any other programs?

Thanks!

 

[whoknows2012]

Hey, Im an MS3 who's now officially decided on IM. I just wanted to know what your opinions are of my preliminary list.

Top 40 US allopathic School in NE
Step 1: 250+
Step 2: will take at the end of Sept.
MS1/2: mix of A's and B's, no honors
MS3: A's so far, no honors, but haven't done IM or gen surg yet
Research: some bench work between M1 and M2, working on a project now that will hopefully get me published before applications
AOA: unlikely
Rank: probably top 40%

List:
Reaches: Dartmouth, Yale, Columbia, MGH, BGW, UTSW, Penn, JHU
Appropriate: UVA, Maryland, Beth Israel, UNC, Mayo, Baylor, Pitt,
Safety: not really sure how to approach this, any suggestions?

I don't have too much of a location preference, but I was wondering what you all thought my chances at schools in TX are? I know UTSW is a reach, but how about Baylor or any other programs?

Thanks!

Remove Dartmouth from your reaches. Also there are about 20 other programs that you would be competitive that you didn't list. Also what is "Beth Israel." Is that BID or BI NYC. If you're set on Texas your options are limited for powerhouse academic programs but there are still several solid training programs. I think it'll be easier to help if you're more specific about what you want out of a program and where you'd like to be, even if location isn't all that important.

 

[John Snow]

Remove Dartmouth from your reaches. Also there are about 20 other programs that you would be competitive that you didn't list. Also what is "Beth Israel." Is that BID or BI NYC. If you're set on Texas your options are limited for powerhouse academic programs but there are still several solid training programs. I think it'll be easier to help if you're more specific about what you want out of a program and where you'd like to be, even if location isn't all that important.

I'm really just looking for a solid University based IM program that won't close any doors for me in terms of fellowships. I'd like them to be ideally in Texas, but anywhere on the East coast is also good. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Señor S]

I'm really just looking for a solid University based IM program that won't close any doors for me in terms of fellowships. I'd like them to be ideally in Texas, but anywhere on the East coast is also good. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

I think you'll match at either Baylor or UTSW if that's what you want. Add UTH, UTSA, UT-Austin, Houston Methodist, Baylor Dallas if you want some safeties in TX.

 

[Redpancreas]

Aiming for a top-mid tier university IM programs in a decent location. In other words, not Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, but tiers under that category.

School: mid-lower tier Midwest.
Step 1: 252
Step 2: Later this year
Research: 2 posters, possible publication upcoming but it's stuck right now in data analysis.
Leadership: Curriculum Committee, IM Interest Group Coordinator
Year 3: P OB/GYN, P Psych, HP Neuro, HP Medicine, H Family, Peds and Surgery remaining.
Years 1-2: bottom 50%, class rank not great
Letters: Will be decent I believe.

WAMCs? I really would love to match somewhere competitive but have been continually let down over this year with missing cut offs and such.


**need to do more research on lists**
My geographical preference is somewhere new but willing to stay put if need be.

Ideas: Beaumont, HFHS, DMC, MSU GR, Michigan, Case, OSU, Cincinnati, Indiana, Rush, Chicago, NW, Mayo, UMinn, UIowa, UWisconsin, MCW, Penn St., UPenn, Temple, UPitt, Jefferson, NYU, Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, Boston U, UVA, UNC, UMaryland, Rutgers, Georgetown, UMiami, some UFlorida's, UTSW, Baylor, some TX I'm missing, probably all the Cali programs UCSD/F/I, Stanford, USC, etc.

Any thoughts?

 

[tantacles]

Aiming for a top-mid tier university IM programs in a decent location. In other words, not Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, but tiers under that category.

School: mid-lower tier Midwest.
Step 1: 252
Step 2: Later this year
Research: 2 posters, possible publication upcoming but it's stuck right now in data analysis.
Leadership: Curriculum Committee, IM Interest Group Coordinator
Year 3: P OB/GYN, P Psych, HP Neuro, HP Medicine, H Family, Peds and Surgery remaining.
Years 1-2: bottom 50%, class rank not great
Letters: Will be decent I believe.
Other factors: I delayed my third year to take an extra 1.5 mos. to take step electively but will make it up with no vacation and creative interview scheduling to graduate on time and doing what counted Y4 elective during M1-2.

WAMCs? I really would love to match somewhere competitive but have been continually let down over this year with missing cut offs and such.


**need to do more research on lists**
My geographical preference is somewhere new but willing to stay put if need be.

Ideas: Beaumont, HFHS, DMC, MSU GR, Michigan, Case, OSU, Cincinnati, Indiana, Rush, Chicago, NW, Mayo, UMinn, UIowa, UWisconsin, MCW, Penn St., UPenn, Temple, UPitt, Jefferson, NYU, Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, Boston U, UVA, UNC, UMaryland, Rutgers, Georgetown, UMiami, some UFlorida's, UTSW, Baylor, some TX I'm missing, probably all the Cali programs UCSD/F/I, Stanford, USC, etc.

Any thoughts?

You have a varied list, and many of the programs you have put down are technically safeties for yourself (Beaumont, DMC, MSUGR, Indiana, Penn State, Jefferson, Rutgers, possibly Miami), and you have a bunch of good targets (Case University Hospitals [don't both applying to Metrohealth], Temple, Minnesota, Iowa, Cincinnati, Maryland, MCW). Your grades will probably rule out may of those top tier schools, but your mix is good enough that I would guess you'd be ok with only the ones on your list right now. If you want to save money, cut out NW, Michigan, Columbia, Cornell, and Sinai, but honestly, that's about $80 is I remember correctly, so might be worth it to keep them just so you have some reaches on your list.

 

[tantacles]

Hi, I'm an MS3 wanting to go into GIM/PC, so very interested in the PC tracks at various programs.
Med School: BCM
STEP I: 260
STEP II: 265
Grades: Pretty split. H: IM, FM, OBGYN, HP: Pedi Sub-I*, P: Pedi, Neuro, Surgery
*thought I was going to apply med-peds at the time. unfortunately you can only do 1 sub-i at my school, so unable to do IM
AOA: nope
Research: 2 pubs (1 first author, 1 second author) non-IM fields
Extracurriculars: MPH, a couple leadership positions, some advocacy work at a couple non-profits

Here's my current list:

Reach: Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, NYU, MGH, BWH, BIDMC, BMC, Penn, Yale, UTSW, BCM

Other: Monte, Tufts, Brown, TJU, Temple, Drexel, MMC, Georgetown, UTHSCA, UTMB, Univ of Arizona, UNM

Any holes in the list? Too top heavy? Should I add more? Thanks!

If your home program doesn't hate you, it's at the very top a target program for you.

 

[ilovecorgis]

Hi everyone,

Med school: Top 15
Step I: 230
Step II: TBD
Grades: All honors, school doesn't do in-class ranking
AOA: school doesn't have a chapter
Research: 3 published manuscripts, 1 additional submitted. 4 published abstracts, 1 submitted.

My goal is to match into a university program where I might competitive for a heme onc fellowship (in-house program is a plus). Location ideally in west coast or southeast (family ties). I realize I'm not a competitive applicant, but I'd just like to hear any suggestions for programs I might be more competitive for in those regions!

Super reach:
UCSF
Stanford
Duke
UW
Northwestern
Vanderbilt

High-reach + everything else:
UCSD
USC
UCLA
UF
Baylor
UNC-CH
Wake Forest
UVA
Emory
tOSU
Georgetown
Colorado (family ties here)

 

[Señor S]

Hi everyone,

Med school: Top 15
Step I: 230
Step II: TBD
Grades: All honors, school doesn't do in-class ranking
AOA: school doesn't have a chapter
Research: 3 published manuscripts, 1 additional submitted. 4 published abstracts, 1 submitted.

My goal is to match into a university program where I might competitive for a heme onc fellowship (in-house program is a plus). Location ideally in west coast or southeast (family ties). I realize I'm not a competitive applicant, but I'd just like to hear any suggestions for programs I might be more competitive for in those regions!

Super reach:
UCSF
Stanford
Duke
UW
Northwestern
Vanderbilt

High-reach + everything else:
UCSD
USC
UCLA
UF
Baylor
UNC-CH
Wake Forest
UVA
Emory
tOSU
Georgetown
Colorado (family ties here)

I think you'll probably match with that list, thought it would be worth adding more places. VCU and MUSC come to mind in the Southeast; I think you'd be competitive for UAB as well. OHSU on the West Coast. If you're open to the Midwest or even just Chicago then of course there's a bunch more places you could apply to.

Obviously try to do well on Step 2.

 

[osprey099]

Hi everyone, as 3rd year draws to a close, I just wanted to see if you all think I can match into a mid-tier academic IM program. Location is not important for me although I have family ties in mid-atlantic and southeast.

Med school: ranked 30-40
Step 1: 229
Step 2: tbd
MS3 grades: H medicine, family med; HP psych, peds; P obgyn, surgery
MS4 grades: tbd but most likely will have 2 medicine sub-I honors before ERAS
Letters: So far I know I have 1 very strong letter from my 3rd year medicine director who told me he wrote things like "performed better than my senior residents" even though I know it's not true. I will get 2 more from my sub-internships hopefully.
AOA: hell no
Research: 1 first author, 5+ coauthored pubs
Undergrad: top 10 (heard mixed things about where you went to undergrad playing a small role, thoughts?)
Extracurriculars: pretty much none; I didn't do anything during med school

I will be applying to every academic program under the sun and then about 5 or so community programs so at least 80+ applications. Money and time is not an issue. Thoughts?

 

[whoknows2012]

Hi everyone, as 3rd year draws to a close, I just wanted to see if you all think I can match into a mid-tier academic IM program. Location is not important for me although I have family ties in mid-atlantic and southeast.

Med school: ranked 30-40
Step 1: 229
Step 2: tbd
MS3 grades: H medicine, family med; HP psych, peds; P obgyn, surgery
MS4 grades: tbd but most likely will have 2 medicine sub-I honors before ERAS
Letters: So far I know I have 1 very strong letter from my 3rd year medicine director who told me he wrote things like "performed better than my senior residents" even though I know it's not true. I will get 2 more from my sub-internships hopefully.
AOA: hell no
Research: 1 first author, 5+ coauthored pubs
Undergrad: top 10 (heard mixed things about where you went to undergrad playing a small role, thoughts?)
Extracurriculars: pretty much none; I didn't do anything during med school

I will be applying to every academic program under the sun and then about 5 or so community programs so at least 80+ applications. Money and time is not an issue. Thoughts?

You're underselling yourself. Yes lowish step 1 take step 2 early get >250 and you'll definitely match to a solid academic program.

 

[Señor S]

You're underselling yourself. Yes lowish step 1 take step 2 early get >250 and you'll definitely match to a solid academic program.

Agreed. A well selected 30-40 programs would be more than enough, although if you want to throw in a bunch of reaches that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[osprey099]

You're underselling yourself. Yes lowish step 1 take step 2 early get >250 and you'll definitely match to a solid academic program.

So 250+ step 2 and I should be able to get into mid tier academic program. Perhaps places like tufts, Dartmouth, Rochester, Miami, Georgetown? Or are these places more than just "mid tier"?


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[whoknows2012]

So 250+ step 2 and I should be able to get into mid tier academic program. Perhaps places like tufts, Dartmouth, Rochester, Miami, Georgetown? Or are these places more than just "mid tier"?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

All of those places are mid tier and you'd be competitive there right now let alone a 250+ on step 2. If you're able to improve your app a bit due to your great research I think it's possible for you to get some reach interviews.

 

[235009]

So 250+ step 2 and I should be able to get into mid tier academic program. Perhaps places like tufts, Dartmouth, Rochester, Miami, Georgetown? Or are these places more than just "mid tier"?

You're being ridiculous. Those places aren't particularly competitive. For instance Georgetown has several DOs and IMGs. You're basically underselling yourself and overselling the competitiveness of these programs you're calling "mid tier". Your H in medicine will go a long way. Take step 2 early as was suggested. Pick a geographic region and apply to 25-30 programs. No US MD needs to apply to 80+ programs unless they have serious red flags (failing a class/clerkship/step 1, disciplinary action, criminal record).

 

[biffc]

This thread has been very helpful already but I was wanting some more targeted help to my (somewhat) unique situation. Thanks in advance for the help! I plan to pay it forward this time next year. Pardon the length of this post.

I will be couples matching this year with my spouse also going into IM. At this point we are having a difficult time gauging our combined competitiveness even after talking with multiple advisors at our school - no one seems to want to give any sort of concrete answer!

Spouse A
School: Low-Mid tier MD in South
STEP1: High 250s
STEP 2: tbd, hopefully an improvement
Top 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: Mix H and P, roughly equal
MS4 grades: tbd
Letters: Likely will be strong
AOA probably not, GHHS yes
Research: 1 first author basic science; 1-2 middle author clinical IM; ~5 posters over the years, ~5 podiums over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be considered strong and good talking points

Spouse B
School: same
STEP1: ~220
STEP2: tbd, hopefully big improvement
Middle 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: more P than H, but incredible clinical evals
Letters: will be very strong
AOA no, GHHS yes
Research: strong non-IM research with pubs, won research competitions; ~5 posters over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be fantastic

At this point we are looking to probably leave our home state for a new adventure. Somewhere coolish climate-wise (PNW, Mid-Atlantic, Rocky Mountains, wherever really) is on our list but we could be convinced to go wherever we can get the best training and be happy. A strong academic program that takes care of its residents is ideal, as we are undecided but interested in competitive fellowships.

With all of this said, any thoughts on our dynamic and the tier of program (and specific programs) that we might look at? How many to apply to as a couple? Any help is appreciated. Cheers!

 

[235009]

This thread has been very helpful already but I was wanting some more targeted help to my (somewhat) unique situation. Thanks in advance for the help! I plan to pay it forward this time next year. Pardon the length of this post.

I will be couples matching this year with my spouse also going into IM. At this point we are having a difficult time gauging our combined competitiveness even after talking with multiple advisors at our school - no one seems to want to give any sort of concrete answer!

Spouse A
School: Low-Mid tier MD in South
STEP1: High 250s
STEP 2: tbd, hopefully an improvement
Top 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: Mix H and P, roughly equal
MS4 grades: tbd
Letters: Likely will be strong
AOA probably not, GHHS yes
Research: 1 first author basic science; 1-2 middle author clinical IM; ~5 posters over the years, ~5 podiums over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be considered strong and good talking points

Spouse B
School: same
STEP1: ~220
STEP2: tbd, hopefully big improvement
Middle 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: more P than H, but incredible clinical evals
Letters: will be very strong
AOA no, GHHS yes
Research: strong non-IM research with pubs, won research competitions; ~5 posters over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be fantastic

At this point we are looking to probably leave our home state for a new adventure. Somewhere coolish climate-wise (PNW, Mid-Atlantic, Rocky Mountains, wherever really) is on our list but we could be convinced to go wherever we can get the best training and be happy. A strong academic program that takes care of its residents is ideal, as we are undecided but interested in competitive fellowships.

With all of this said, any thoughts on our dynamic and the tier of program (and specific programs) that we might look at? How many to apply to as a couple? Any help is appreciated. Cheers!

Couples matching is very hard to predict!
More often the less strong candidate tends to pull down the stronger candidate.
So reading between the lines a little the answer to your actual question is yes, spouse B will likely hold back spouse A (who I assume is you). You're only as good as your weakest player. Some mid-tiers can be convinced if they really like the stronger candidate though.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Señor S]

This thread has been very helpful already but I was wanting some more targeted help to my (somewhat) unique situation. Thanks in advance for the help! I plan to pay it forward this time next year. Pardon the length of this post.

I will be couples matching this year with my spouse also going into IM. At this point we are having a difficult time gauging our combined competitiveness even after talking with multiple advisors at our school - no one seems to want to give any sort of concrete answer!

Spouse A
School: Low-Mid tier MD in South
STEP1: High 250s
STEP 2: tbd, hopefully an improvement
Top 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: Mix H and P, roughly equal
MS4 grades: tbd
Letters: Likely will be strong
AOA probably not, GHHS yes
Research: 1 first author basic science; 1-2 middle author clinical IM; ~5 posters over the years, ~5 podiums over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be considered strong and good talking points

Spouse B
School: same
STEP1: ~220
STEP2: tbd, hopefully big improvement
Middle 1/3 of class
MS3 grades: more P than H, but incredible clinical evals
Letters: will be very strong
AOA no, GHHS yes
Research: strong non-IM research with pubs, won research competitions; ~5 posters over the years
Extracurriculars: Should be fantastic

At this point we are looking to probably leave our home state for a new adventure. Somewhere coolish climate-wise (PNW, Mid-Atlantic, Rocky Mountains, wherever really) is on our list but we could be convinced to go wherever we can get the best training and be happy. A strong academic program that takes care of its residents is ideal, as we are undecided but interested in competitive fellowships.

With all of this said, any thoughts on our dynamic and the tier of program (and specific programs) that we might look at? How many to apply to as a couple? Any help is appreciated. Cheers!

B is definitely going to be the limiting factor here as I'm sure you know. I'd probably apply to 60-ish programs including a decent number of community programs as backups. I wouldn't waste my money on the top academic programs in the biggest cities (MGH etc) assuming you both want to end up at the exact same program (as opposed to different programs in the same city, which is something you both should talk about btw).

Some places to consider just off the top of my head:

Dartmouth
Brown
Georgetown
GWU
Maryland
Temple
Jefferson
Drexel
UVa
VCU
Wake Forest
UNC
MUSC
UAB
USC
OHSU
Utah
Colorado
Nebraska
Minnesota
Wisconsin
MCW
Iowa
Mayo
Indiana
UIC
Rush
Loyola
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic

 

[manilamailman2017]

Question regarding resumes and research section:
Is it a good idea to put ongoing research into a section separate from published/completed research?

Not merely to stretch filler with pointless projects. But if there is a significant project that will be published sometime after interview season, would that be warranted to add on the resume? Or save that to discuss during the interview?

 

[Animalcules]

Question regarding resumes and research section:
Is it a good idea to put ongoing research into a section separate from published/completed research?

Not merely to stretch filler with pointless projects. But if there is a significant project that will be published sometime after interview season, would that be warranted to add on the resume? Or save that to discuss during the interview?

Unless it is submitted, do not mention it. If it is submitted, maybe consider it.

 

[PTFoolUS]

Med school rank: Middle third mid-west
USMLE Step 1: 236
USMLE Step 2: taking july
USMLE CS: taking july
Class rank: not assessed, average about HP on preclinical
AOA: prob not

Grades:
-Honors: Pulm elective, Rads elective, anesthesiology, OB GYN, Psych
-High Pass: IM, Surgery
-Pass: Family med
-Pending: FM

Research:
-Publications: 2 Poster presentations, 1 pub pending, 1 case report at national conference competition

LOR: Have 3 lined up, will get 1 more on sub-I
ECs/Leadership: president of local club, involved with various community endeavors, and started a new club for the school that is actually pretty unique and a passion of mine.


I ideally want a solid / upper-middle tier academic program that provides me options for fellowship, but a respectable community program would also be great. I wish I had gotten an honors on IM, but the shelf left me a tad short of the cut off. I don't really have a geographic preference, so my list is pretty large, but I am originally from the Northeast.

Miami-Jackson
RWJ
NJMS
Albert Einstein
Montefiore
Hofstra LIJ
Mt sinai
Presby Cornell
Presby Columbia
NYU
Stony Brook
Vanderbilt
Upenn
Penn Hospital
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Cedars Sinai
LA USC
UCLA
UCLA olive view
UCSD
scripps mercy
scripps green
Uchicago
UIC
Rush
Northwestern
BIDMC
BU
hopkins bayview
U of maryland
emory
Cleveland clinic
Brown
MCW
Georgetown
George Washington
UTSW
Austin-Dell
Baylor

 

[fresnomike]

GL everybody

 

[Señor S]

Med school rank: mid tier MD
USMLE Step 1: 213 - much lower than my practice scores unfortunately 🙁
USMLE Step 2: Not taken yet
Class rank: 50th percentile
AOA: no
Clerkships: all Pass
Research: a few publications, presentations
LOR: solid
EC's: a lot of volunteering, mission work, w/ some leadership positions etc

Basically an average student at an average school with a low Step score 🙁 . Any chance at a university IM program if I get an avg Step 2 score (primarily looking in southern states ie Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Florida, NC, Cali), or should I stick with primarily community IM programs in those states? Any experience/advice with someone in my situation, or how many programs I should be applying to? I'm not sure how much consideration I should give to Freida and their reported step score averages (ie is it a complete waste to apply to IM programs where their stated cutoffs are in the 220s?) I've heard many people get interviews well below the cutoffs, but who knows. Just trying to seek out more people's advice, thanks!

Applications are the cheapest part of this process. Apply broadly. That Freida stuff is incomplete and not reliable. If you apply to every university program in the states you mentioned (minus the obvious no-hope reaches) I think you'll match.

 

[Señor S]

Med school rank: Middle third mid-west
USMLE Step 1: 236
USMLE Step 2: taking july
USMLE CS: taking july
Class rank: not assessed, average about HP on preclinical
AOA: prob not

Grades:
-Honors: Pulm elective, Rads elective, anesthesiology, OB GYN, Psych
-High Pass: IM, Surgery
-Pass: Family med
-Pending: FM

Research:
-Publications: 2 Poster presentations, 1 pub pending, 1 case report at national conference competition

LOR: Have 3 lined up, will get 1 more on sub-I
ECs/Leadership: president of local club, involved with various community endeavors, and started a new club for the school that is actually pretty unique and a passion of mine.


I ideally want a solid / upper-middle tier academic program that provides me options for fellowship, but a respectable community program would also be great. I wish I had gotten an honors on IM, but the shelf left me a tad short of the cut off. I don't really have a geographic preference, so my list is pretty large, but I am originally from the Northeast.

Miami-Jackson
RWJ
NJMS
Albert Einstein
Montefiore
Hofstra LIJ
Mt sinai
Presby Cornell
Presby Columbia
NYU
Stony Brook
Vanderbilt
Upenn
Penn Hospital
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Cedars Sinai
LA USC
UCLA
UCLA olive view
UCSD
scripps mercy
scripps green
Uchicago
UIC
Rush
Northwestern
BIDMC
BU
hopkins bayview
U of maryland
emory
Cleveland clinic
Brown
MCW
Georgetown
George Washington
UTSW
Austin-Dell
Baylor

You'll match with that list. If you're considering Cleveland Clinic definitely add Case Western.

 

[PTFoolUS]

You'll match with that list. If you're considering Cleveland Clinic definitely add Case Western.

Are my reaches such as UCLA, NYU, Cornell, ect reasonable?