Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[IM2GI]

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When you say inflation do you mean that the average for IM Programs has drastically gone up?

Yes, 240 is the new 230.

 

[dfib slim]

Hello everyone,

Recently took Step 1 and scored 226. I'm ambivalent about my score and wanted advice from those associated with or who anything about California IM Programs. I'm particularly interested in mid-tier programs that can provide solid research as I would love to go into a sub-specialty.

I'm an osteopathic medical student (so I'm obviously not talking about UCSF or UCLA Reagan) with a good amount of research publications, poster presentations, an over-abundance of scholarships, and a stacked CV in terms of extracurriculars.

I know Step 1 isn't everything, so assuming I do alright during 3rd year and hopefully honor my IM rotations, what are my odds and what programs should I realistically consider? Obviously I'll be applying to every program West and East of the Mississippi but I have a strong preference for California!

Thank you in advance.

California is rough for DOs. I applied to like 12 programs with a step score in the 260s. Only got 3 interviews with 1 being a university program. I suggest you rotate at a few to increase your chances.

 

[RIHD88]

B is definitely going to be the limiting factor here as I'm sure you know. I'd probably apply to 60-ish programs including a decent number of community programs as backups. I wouldn't waste my money on the top academic programs in the biggest cities (MGH etc) assuming you both want to end up at the exact same program (as opposed to different programs in the same city, which is something you both should talk about btw).

Some places to consider just off the top of my head:

Dartmouth
Brown
Georgetown
GWU
Maryland
Temple
Jefferson
Drexel
UVa
VCU
Wake Forest
UNC
MUSC
UAB
USC
OHSU
Utah
Colorado
Nebraska
Minnesota
Wisconsin
MCW
Iowa
Mayo
Indiana
UIC
Rush
Loyola
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic

Avoid! Trust me on this one.

 

[Señor S]

Avoid! Trust me on this one.

Care to elaborate?

I'm familiar with the standard SDN line about CC, and while I don't doubt it's true for that particular couples match you could certainly do worse.

 

[RIHD88]

Care to elaborate?

I'm familiar with the standard SDN line about CC, and while I don't doubt it's true for that particular couples match you could certainly do worse.

Depends on what you're looking for from a residency program and what your expectations are from a program's leadership in terms of actually supporting you as a resident, taking feedback on board and functioning in a diplomatic, benevolent manner. Lots of unhappy campers.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Hello everyone,

Recently took Step 1 and scored 226. I'm ambivalent about my score and wanted advice from those associated with or who anything about California IM Programs. I'm particularly interested in mid-tier programs that can provide solid research as I would love to go into a sub-specialty.

I'm an osteopathic medical student (so I'm obviously not talking about UCSF or UCLA Reagan) with a good amount of research publications, poster presentations, an over-abundance of scholarships, and a stacked CV in terms of extracurriculars.

I know Step 1 isn't everything, so assuming I do alright during 3rd year and hopefully honor my IM rotations, what are my odds and what programs should I realistically consider? Obviously I'll be applying to every program West and East of the Mississippi but I have a strong preference for California!

Thank you in advance.

Although I agree with @dfib slim that CA IM programs are very competitive for DOs to match, at WesternU we had about 15 people matching IM positions at CA academic programs (UCI, Loma Linda, UCSF-Fresno and UCR). To my knowledge, the people who matched didn't have nearly as good scores as dfib's. This makes me think that being from the area, or attending a school in CA, gives you a huge leg up in the process.

 

[Jabbed]

🙂

 

[RIHD88]

Bump?

0%

 

[Jabbed]

0%

Pedigree and research are deal breakers?

 

[Animalcules]

Pedigree and research are deal breakers?

Nobody knows. But these programs are historically looking for something that makes you special. This can be research or impressive extracurriculars. Another way into them is straight up inbreeding.

 

[Señor S]

Bump?

Obviously you have a chance and it's worth applying. As mentioned above your total lack of research will hurt you.

 

[RIHD88]

Nobody knows. But these programs are historically looking for something that makes you special. This can be research or impressive extracurriculars. Another way into them is straight up inbreeding.

Looking at the top 4 programs, which one has taken students from lower tier schools with no research?

 

[rd31]

Bump?

I'd say highly unlikely, but worth applying. Lack of research + pedigree probably are the deal breakers here.

 

[bo4344]

Hi friends. I am nearing the end of 3rd year and wanting to go into a categorical IM residency. I have pass in everything (except high pass in surgery... still not sure how this happened). Step 1: 212, yikes, not great, I know. I'm an "AMG" at a non top 50 school.

I also don't want to end up somewhere bonkers for residency.

Can you help me decide which of these programs to include/exclude from my application?

Pennsylvania Hospital
Mayo Arizona
Cedars-Sinai
Hopkins Bayview
Cook County
Mount Sinai SLR
Albert Einstein COM Jacobi
CWRU Metrohealth
Georgetown WHC
Ochsner
Albert Einstein Philadelphia
UPMC Mercy
Houston Methodist
Maimonides BK
NYP BK Methodist
NYP Queens
Mount Sinai Queens

Any other suggestions/recommendations?

I'm also considering a career in primary care so an X+Y schedule would be better as I understand their PC experience is better.

 

[Daodejing]

Hi friends. I am nearing the end of 3rd year and wanting to go into a categorical IM residency. I have pass in everything (except high pass in surgery... still not sure how this happened). Step 1: 212, yikes, not great, I know. I'm an "AMG" at a non top 50 school.

I also don't want to end up somewhere bonkers for residency.

Can you help me decide which of these programs to include/exclude from my application?

Pennsylvania Hospital
Mayo Arizona
Cedars-Sinai
Hopkins Bayview
Cook County
Mount Sinai SLR
Albert Einstein COM Jacobi
CWRU Metrohealth
Georgetown WHC
Ochsner
Albert Einstein Philadelphia
UPMC Mercy
Houston Methodist
Maimonides BK
NYP BK Methodist
NYP Queens
Mount Sinai Queens

Any other suggestions/recommendations?

I'm also considering a career in primary care so an X+Y schedule would be better as I understand their PC experience is better.

I'd exclude cedars and hopkins bayview. Probably not gonna happen. And apply to a bunch more...a bunch.

 

[anon55]

I'm interested in a few specialties, so I'm trying to judge my competitiveness and narrow my focus as I go through 3rd year and determine what all I can do to help myself. I'm just finishing up my first rotation so I don't have any clinical grades, and while I realize those are a critical part of my application, I was wondering if I have a reasonable shot at the top programs given the fact that I'm at a low-tier MD school with a relative lack of publications? I'm interested in academics, particularly ID.

School: low-tier MD
Step 1: >265
Step 2: N/A
Pre-clinical: all honors
Clinical: N/A
Class rank: top 10%
Research: masters degree, 2 presentations, 2 posters, 2 abstracts
EC's: nothing extraordinary

Any advice is welcome, thanks!

 

[MasterGiraffe]

Hey everyone, looking for some advice on what programs would be a good fit. I am at the beginning of my 4th year, applying to IM, and interested in cardiology fellowship. Most of my family is in Cleveland and would love to stay in or near Cleveland, but also willing to leave for the right program if it would make me competitive to return for fellowship. For me, the most important aspect is the quality of teaching. I am looking for a program that will push me to become a better physician, but it is hard for me to determine what programs really embody this. Thoughts on this and my chances at top programs? Any advice would also be appreciated!

Med school rank: Top 25 MD
USMLE Step 1: 245
USMLE Step 2 CK: TBD (I take this in October)
USMLE Step 2 CS: Pass
Class rank: School does not have any class rank or grades
AOA: TBD
Clerkships: Honors in IM, Surgery, Psych, Neuro, FM, and Peds. High pass in OBGYN. Just finished by IM AI and from the feedback I got it is very likely I will get honors, but still technically TBD.
Research: MS in electrical engineering. 2 papers, 4 conference presentations (I was not the presenter), one conference paper being submitted soon. Two opportunities for a first author publication in the works, but might not be done in time for applications.
LOR: IM Clerkship Director, IM program director/chairman of IM, research PI, possibly 1 other cardiologist/research PI
EC's: Exec board of our student-run free clinic, teaching underprivileged kids, admissions interviewing, health screening for low socioeconomic patients. Also, honors societies and crap from college that probably doesn't count/matter.

Thanks in advance!

 

[medicine.internal1234]

Hey guys,

I'm a 4th year student AMG (not top 20 school) and I am trying to apply for IM residency. I am trying to find out which programs I have the highest chance of receiving interviews from. I am looking to stay on the East Coast of the US, but will also apply to Texas and Chicago area.

I will be honest, I am an average candidate. My Step 1 is 230, Step 2 CK is 228. Will take CS soon. My grades are average as well. However, I do have several abstracts w/ poster and oral presentations. I will be able to get some strong recommendations as well.

Please give me some input. I'm a little lost.

 

[Shark7500]

Med school rank: #35-45 depending on the year
USMLE Step 1: 240
USMLE Step 2: should get it back soon, practice scores mid 250s.
USMLE CS: pending
Class rank: 2nd quartile
AOA/GHHS: No
Grades:

-Honors: IM, Peds, Neuro, OB/Gyn, Psych
-High Pass: none
-Pass: Family, Surgery​

Research:

-Publications: 2x 1st author (1 basic science, 1 review), 1x 4th author (basic science), 1x published abstract (3rd author)
-Patents: 1x provisional patent medical-related device from undergrad
-Presentations: 2 oral presentations (1st auth) + 3-5 poster presentations
-Pending: 2 meta-analyses, 1 retrospective review that will NOT be completed by sept 15​

LOR: IM committee letter written by dept chair, letter from IM clerkship (very good letter but not amazing), and 1 more letter from my AI.
ECs/Leadership: 2 solid state/national leadership positions, some tutoring. No volunteering.
Race: over-represented minority

Here are the programs I would like to apply to:
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
Vanderbilt
UVA
Emory
U Louisville
UAB
U Miami Jackson
LSU-NO
USF-tampa
Mayo-Jacksonville
Baylor
UTSW
MUSC
Tulane
UTHSC-San Antonio
UTMB
Miami-miller
SLU

Out of geographical region interests/reaches (2/2 family ties or cool location):
U Washington
Mayo
Northwestern
tOSU/Case/Cleveland Clinic/Ohio programs
Colorado
Yale

Please feel free to add or remove from this list!

Questions:
1. My PI is moving to a different institution and got really busy recently. Is it a red flag if I don't get a LOR from her, especially considering the amount of research that I have?
2. I have a feeling that my letters are going to be good, but nothing spectacular. Like, I got great comments and evals throughout third year, but I'm not sure how my attending can write me a glowing letter when I've only worked with them for like 2 weeks inpatient... For internal medicine specifically, how much do LORs get looked at?
3. WAMC at UTSW, Baylor, and Emory? Would these be considered reaches or good target schools for me?
4. I've gained a bunch of weight since I got married / since third year happened. How much, if at all, will being overweight affect my chances? I'm trying to work on it, but it never seems to come off as fast as it gets put on xD

 

[AnalisCanalis]

Med school rank: #35-45 depending on the year
USMLE Step 1: 240
USMLE Step 2: should get it back soon, practice scores mid 250s.
USMLE CS: pending
Class rank: 2nd quartile
AOA/GHHS: No
Grades:

-Honors: IM, Peds, Neuro, OB/Gyn, Psych
-High Pass: none
-Pass: Family, Surgery​

Research:

-Publications: 2x 1st author (1 basic science, 1 review), 1x 4th author (basic science), 1x published abstract (3rd author)
-Patents: 1x provisional patent medical-related device from undergrad
-Presentations: 2 oral presentations (1st auth) + 3-5 poster presentations
-Pending: 2 meta-analyses, 1 retrospective review that will NOT be completed by sept 15​

LOR: IM committee letter written by dept chair, letter from IM clerkship (very good letter but not amazing), and 1 more letter from my AI.
ECs/Leadership: 2 solid state/national leadership positions, some tutoring. No volunteering.
Race: over-represented minority

Here are the programs I would like to apply to:
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
Vanderbilt
UVA
Emory
U Louisville
UAB
U Miami Jackson
LSU-NO
USF-tampa
Mayo-Jacksonville
Baylor
UTSW
MUSC
Tulane
UTHSC-San Antonio
UTMB
Miami-miller
SLU

Out of geographical region interests/reaches (2/2 family ties or cool location):
U Washington
Mayo
Northwestern
OHSU/Case/Cleveland Clinic/Ohio programs
Colorado
Yale

Please feel free to add or remove from this list!

Questions:
1. My PI is moving to a different institution and got really busy recently. Is it a red flag if I don't get a LOR from her, especially considering the amount of research that I have?
2. I have a feeling that my letters are going to be good, but nothing spectacular. Like, I got great comments and evals throughout third year, but I'm not sure how my attending can write me a glowing letter when I've only worked with them for like 2 weeks inpatient... For internal medicine specifically, how much do LORs get looked at?
3. WAMC at UTSW, Baylor, and Emory? Would these be considered reaches or good target schools for me?
4. I've gained a bunch of weight since I got married / since third year happened. How much, if at all, will being overweight affect my chances? I'm trying to work on it, but it never seems to come off as fast as it gets put on xD

1. Unless you are applying for research track this probably does not matter. I mean think about it. Which PI would write a bad letter for a student with whom they have published extensively? It's basically worthless.
2. Everyone has great letters.
3. Good target schools.
4. Don't sweat it.

 

[gutonc]

OHSU/Case/Cleveland Clinic/Ohio programs

OHSU is in Portland, Oregon, not Ohio

 

[Shark7500]

1. Unless you are applying for research track this probably does not matter. I mean think about it. Which PI would write a bad letter for a student with whom they have published extensively? It's basically worthless.
2. Everyone has great letters.
3. Good target schools.
4. Don't sweat it.

That's true. I didn't think of it from the perspective of the residency program. I don't think that the letter could write anything not already demonstrated in my application, especially if the only thing I've done with them is publish.

OHSU is in Portland, Oregon, not Ohio

Good catch! I meant to say tOSU*.

 

[Señor S]

1. Unless you are applying for research track this probably does not matter. I mean think about it. Which PI would write a bad letter for a student with whom they have published extensively? It's basically worthless.
2. Everyone has great letters.
3. Good target schools.
4. Don't sweat it.

Agree. Also if you're considering SLU I would add WashU as well. Maybe UChicago too.

 

[RIHD88]

I'd say not to bother with OHSU. Very average!

That's true. I didn't think of it from the perspective of the residency program. I don't think that the letter could write anything not already demonstrated in my application, especially if the only thing I've done with them is publish.



Good catch! I meant to say tOSU*.

 

[gutonc]

I'd say not to bother with OHSU. Very average!

Bigly.

 

[Syndicate]

US Allopathic Senior, US Citizen
Step 1: 229
Step 2: 262
MS3 Grades: H Medicine, HP Peds/FM/Psych, P Surg/OB
MS4 Grades: H Medicine Sub-I x2
Med School Rank: 30-40
Letters: solid, all medicine
Research: many pubs
No AOA, no Gold Humanism
No extracurrics at all
No years off before or during med school
Top 10 undergrad

List: are these expectations reasonable?

Donating app fee to: MGH, Hopkins Osler, UCSF, Brigham, Mayo Rochester, Duke, WashU, NYP Columbia, Michigan, UTSW, UPenn, UW, Vandy, Stanford, NW, Cleveland Clinic, Emory, NYU, UCLA, UChicago, BID, NYP Cornell, Sinai

Reaches: Mayo Arizona, Mayo Florida, Yale, Pitt, UNC, Baylor, UVA, Colorado, Case, OHSU, UCSD, Iowa, Minnesota, BU, Cedars

Realistic: Roch, UF, Rush, Jefferson, Indiana, Wake, Hopkins Bayview, Tufts, GW, Georgetown, UWisconsin, Temple, Oregon, Cincinnati, Miami, Brown, Harbor UCLA, Montefiore, Maryland, USF, VCU, Loyola, Drexel, Dartmouth, Hofstra

Yes, I realize that's a ton of programs but I'm young, single and don't care where I go geographically. Money and time are not issues either.

Do I have a good shot at matching in my reaches?

 

[Señor S]

US Allopathic Senior, US Citizen
Step 1: 229
Step 2: 262
MS3 Grades: H Medicine, HP Peds/FM/Psych, P Surg/OB
MS4 Grades: H Medicine Sub-I x2
Med School Rank: 30-40
Letters: solid, all medicine
Research: many pubs
No AOA, no Gold Humanism
No extracurrics at all
No years off before or during med school
Top 10 undergrad

List: are these expectations reasonable?

Donating app fee to: MGH, Hopkins Osler, UCSF, Brigham, Mayo Rochester, Duke, WashU, NYP Columbia, Michigan, UTSW, UPenn, UW, Vandy, Stanford, NW, Cleveland Clinic, Emory, NYU, UCLA, UChicago, BID, NYP Cornell, Sinai

Reaches: Mayo Arizona, Mayo Florida, Yale, Pitt, UNC, Baylor, UVA, Colorado, Case, OHSU, UCSD, Iowa, Minnesota, BU, Cedars

Realistic: Roch, UF, Rush, Jefferson, Indiana, Wake, Hopkins Bayview, Tufts, GW, Georgetown, UWisconsin, Temple, Oregon, Cincinnati, Miami, Brown, Harbor UCLA, Montefiore, Maryland, USF, VCU, Loyola, Drexel, Dartmouth, Hofstra

Yes, I realize that's a ton of programs but I'm young, single and don't care where I go geographically. Money and time are not issues either.

Do I have a good shot at matching in my reaches?

Definitely (also I wouldn't classify Mayo AZ and FL as "reaches" for you).

 

[RIHD88]

A nice average program for the nice average applicant.

Bigly.

 

[ThePenguin21]

Hi all,

I'm an MS3 at one of the original 5 osteopathic schools
Step 1: 239
COMLEX: 677
First quartile
1 publication in anesthesia before med school
Extracurriculars: On board of directors for a soup kitchen 1st and 2nd year, other normal leadership stuff

I understand the limits of being a DO, but what are my chances at university programs in the midwest - specifically CO, KS, NE, MO, MN, WI, TX, IA, OH? I know Kansas publishes their average step and comlex scores of incoming residents, which is nice. Does anyone know about the others? Is there anything else I should be doing? I have an opportunity to do some case reports, would that provide an edge in my application? Do I have to apply to community programs too? I plan on doing a fellowship and want access to research opportunities. Thanks so much!

 

[gutonc]

Hi all,

I'm an MS3 at one of the original 5 osteopathic schools
Step 1: 239
COMLEX: 677
First quartile
1 publication in anesthesia before med school
Extracurriculars: On board of directors for a soup kitchen 1st and 2nd year, other normal leadership stuff

I understand the limits of being a DO, but what are my chances at university programs in the midwest - specifically CO, KS, NE, MO, MN, WI, TX, IA, OH? I know Kansas publishes their average step and comlex scores of incoming residents, which is nice. Does anyone know about the others? Is there anything else I should be doing? I have an opportunity to do some case reports, would that provide an edge in my application? Do I have to apply to community programs too? I plan on doing a fellowship and want access to research opportunities. Thanks so much!

You won't get any love from CU, Mayo or WashU (based on your geographic preferences). But you're in a pretty good spot for many other programs. Apply and see what happens. 20-30 apps is probably your sweet spot (40 if you really want to stretch it). Don't go nuts.

And take one or the other of the Step 2 exams ASAP.

 

[dfib slim]

Hi all,

I'm an MS3 at one of the original 5 osteopathic schools
Step 1: 239
COMLEX: 677
First quartile
1 publication in anesthesia before med school
Extracurriculars: On board of directors for a soup kitchen 1st and 2nd year, other normal leadership stuff

I understand the limits of being a DO, but what are my chances at university programs in the midwest - specifically CO, KS, NE, MO, MN, WI, TX, IA, OH? I know Kansas publishes their average step and comlex scores of incoming residents, which is nice. Does anyone know about the others? Is there anything else I should be doing? I have an opportunity to do some case reports, would that provide an edge in my application? Do I have to apply to community programs too? I plan on doing a fellowship and want access to research opportunities. Thanks so much!

I suggest looking at the last few years of IM match threads to gauge your competitiveness with respect to your board scores. I would definitely apply to a bunch of community programs as backups and be more picky when deciding which interviews to attend. You should work on getting a LOR from a university program attending as these hold more weight. Feel free to PM me with any other questions.

 

[polylux]

I'm planning on doing this research myself, but is there any chance someone has looked into what academic programs in the mid-to-northeast/CO/CA are DO-friendly and attainable for a 253 step w/ a few posters/case reports and could share their findings? I'm just starting MS-3 and thinking about aways. I'm told a few aways for DO students is a good idea but don't really have a clue on what programs to target.

 

[MasterGiraffe]

Hey everyone, looking for some advice on what programs would be a good fit. I am at the beginning of my 4th year, applying to IM, and interested in cardiology fellowship. Most of my family is in Cleveland and would love to stay in or near Cleveland, but also willing to leave for the right program if it would make me competitive to return for fellowship. For me, the most important aspect is the quality of teaching. I am looking for a program that will push me to become a better physician, but it is hard for me to determine what programs really embody this. Thoughts on this and my chances at top programs? Any advice would also be appreciated!

Med school rank: Top 25 MD
USMLE Step 1: 245
USMLE Step 2 CK: TBD (I take this in October)
USMLE Step 2 CS: Pass
Class rank: School does not have any class rank or grades
AOA: TBD
Clerkships:
Honors in IM, Surgery, Psych, Neuro, FM, and Peds.
High pass in OBGYN.
Honors in IM AI
Research: MS in electrical engineering. 2 papers (with one more about to be submitted), 6 conference presentations/papers (I was not the presenter). Two opportunities for a first author publication in the works, but might not be done in time for applications.
LOR: IM Clerkship Director, IM program director/chairman of IM, research PI, 1 from a cardiologist/research PI
EC's: Exec board of our student-run free clinic, teaching underprivileged kids, admissions interviewing, health screening for low socioeconomic patients. Also, honors societies and crap from college that probably doesn't count/matter.

Thanks in advance!

Hey sorry for the bump, I just wanted to get some advice as well as be a bit more specific since my original post didn't have specific questions. I also updated the original post with current info.

List of schools:
- MGH
- Johns Hopkins
- Bringham and Womens
- Duke
- Penn
- Michigan
- Northwestern
- Vanderbilt
- U of Chicago
- UPMC
- Cleveland Clinic
- Case Western Reserve University / University Hospitals
- Ohio State

Questions:
1. Does this list seem reasonable at all or am I reaching a lot by listing so many top programs?
2. Is only applying to 13 schools a big risk for me? Should I apply to more?
3. If I should be applying to more, what schools would you suggest that are Midwest / Northeast?
4. What schools are specifically strong in cardiology and cardiology research?

Thanks!

 

[Señor S]

Hey sorry for the bump, I just wanted to get some advice as well as be a bit more specific since my original post didn't have specific questions. I also updated the original post with current info.

List of schools:
- MGH
- Johns Hopkins
- Bringham and Womens
- Duke
- Penn
- Michigan
- Northwestern
- Vanderbilt
- U of Chicago
- UPMC
- Cleveland Clinic
- Case Western Reserve University / University Hospitals
- Ohio State

Questions:
1. Does this list seem reasonable at all or am I reaching a lot by listing so many top programs?
2. Is only applying to 13 schools a big risk for me? Should I apply to more?
3. If I should be applying to more, what schools would you suggest that are Midwest / Northeast?
4. What schools are specifically strong in cardiology and cardiology research?

Thanks!

None of those places is a reach for you however it is a top-heavy list and there's a reasonable chance that you'll end up at whichever of Case/OSU/CC you rank highest. I would add BIDMC, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Yale, WashU and Mayo depending on how you feel about their respective locations. Also for somebody interested in Cards that's applying to Duke and Vanderbilt what about Emory?

 

[anon55]

I'm interested in a few specialties, so I'm trying to judge my competitiveness and narrow my focus as I go through 3rd year and determine what all I can do to help myself. I'm just finishing up my first rotation so I don't have any clinical grades, and while I realize those are a critical part of my application, I was wondering if I have a reasonable shot at the top programs given the fact that I'm at a low-tier MD school with a relative lack of publications? I'm interested in academics, particularly ID.

School: low-tier MD
Step 1: >265
Step 2: N/A
Pre-clinical: all honors
Clinical: N/A
Class rank: top 10%
Research: masters degree, 2 presentations, 2 posters, 2 abstracts
EC's: nothing extraordinary

Any advice is welcome, thanks!

Hate to be that guy who "bumps" his own post, but was just hoping to get some advice on whether my school rank and relative lack of research will hold me back from some of the places I'm interested in, particularly Hopkins, Vandy, Emory, Duke, UVA, UNC, and UAB?

Is there anything I can do in addition to honoring as many rotations as possible and doing well on step 2? Should I attempt to perform additional research? Thanks!

 

[Señor S]

Hate to be that guy who "bumps" his own post, but was just hoping to get some advice on whether my school rank and relative lack of research will hold me back from some of the places I'm interested in, particularly Hopkins, Vandy, Emory, Duke, UVA, UNC, and UAB?

Is there anything I can do in addition to honoring as many rotations as possible and doing well on step 2? Should I attempt to perform additional research? Thanks!

Relative to whom? An MD/PhD?

Being at a low-tier school will probably hurt you (not kill you) at Hopkins and to a lesser extent Vandy and Duke. The others I think you'll be fine at assuming your clinical grades are decent. If you do very well and get AOA then the sky's probably the limit.

More research might be nice but I don't know how likely you are to get anything substantial out of it at that this point; I feel like you've already "checked that box" and that whatever you do additionally is going to be fairly low-end stuff. If you're going to get involved in additional research I would try to do it with IM faculty you can use later as letter writers; ideally, these are people who trained at Hopkins, Vandy, Duke, Emory (i.e. the places you're interested in) within the last 10-15 years.

Also, I would definitely defer Step 2 until late August to give yourself the option to not release the score.

 

[anon55]

Relative to whom? An MD/PhD?

Being at a low-tier school will probably hurt you (not kill you) at Hopkins and to a lesser extent Vandy and Duke. The others I think you'll be fine at assuming your clinical grades are decent. If you do very well and get AOA then the sky's probably the limit.

More research might be nice but I don't know how likely you are to get anything substantial out of it at that this point; I feel like you've already "checked that box" and that whatever you do additionally is going to be fairly low-end stuff. If you're going to get involved in additional research I would try to do it with IM faculty you can use later as letter writers; ideally, these are people who trained at Hopkins, Vandy, Duke, Emory (i.e. the places you're interested in) within the last 10-15 years.

Also, I would definitely defer Step 2 until late August to give yourself the option to not release the score.

Thanks for the reply and advice. I was just looking for advice about what, if anything, (besides clinical honors) I could do to make up for my med school rank for programs that value that. As far as the research, I meant relative to people who apply to some of the places I'm interested in, seems like I continuously hear how productive they are when it comes to publishing, but maybe that's not reality(?). I'll definitely keep Step 2 timing in mind though - that's a good point that I hadn't considered. Thanks again!

 

[Señor S]

Thanks for the reply and advice. I was just looking for advice about what, if anything, (besides clinical honors) I could do to make up for my med school rank for programs that value that. As far as the research, I meant relative to people who apply to some of the places I'm interested in, seems like I continuously hear how productive they are when it comes to publishing, but maybe that's not reality(?). I'll definitely keep Step 2 timing in mind though - that's a good point that I hadn't considered. Thanks again!

Honestly I don't think there's anything you can really do to "make up" for your school's reputation; it is what it is, it will hold you back somewhat but you're otherwise an exceptional applicant so most places won't care too much. If you get involved with some really promising research that might be nice but unless it's a first-author paper in NEJM/JAMA I don't think it's going to do much more for you. If you can get a great LoR from somebody who finished residency at JHU or Vandy or Duke 5 years ago that might go a long way at those places. The truth is at the very top everything is a bit of a crapshoot.

I will bet every nickel I've ever made in my life that you at least match at one of UAB/UVa/UNC

 

[Reggie444]

Med school rank: 40s-50s
USMLE Step 1: 217
USMLE Step 2: not taken
Class rank: Somwhere near the bottom
AOA: LOL
Honors: None
Research: A couple of abstracts and presentations
LOR: Pretty good along with good rotation comments

My application is littered with red flags such as extending second year. Just trying to match, Mid-Atlantic, East Coast and Midwest in order of preference. Would appreciate lots of suggestions for programs. Dreams of doing GI, so anywhere I could do a research or have a higher chance at the fellowship would be great, but I know I'm **** tier, would appreciate any help, thank you.

 

[MasterGiraffe]

None of those places is a reach for you however it is a top-heavy list and there's a reasonable chance that you'll end up at whichever of Case/OSU/CC you rank highest. I would add BIDMC, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Yale, WashU and Mayo depending on how you feel about their respective locations. Also for somebody interested in Cards that's applying to Duke and Vanderbilt what about Emory?

Thanks for the help! Yeah it seems like the top end schools are kind of a crap shoot and I understand I might go to my top safety. I will definitely add some of those programs. I specifically stayed away from NYC programs though because I have no desire to live there. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't need to expand my safety school list just in case. Thanks again!

 

[thatguy92]

Hey everyone! Trying to get ready for the upcoming cycle and could use some help on narrowing down my list.

Med school: Midwest DO school
Step1/COMLEX: 259 (734)
Step2/COMLEX: 252 (738)
Class rank: Top 15%
AOA: N/A
Clinicals: no honors system, but all A's in clinicals
Research: small project with 2 posters and a pending publication
LOR: 1 Dept of Medicine (standard), 1 IM Attending which should be solid, 1 Family attending (should also be solid), and looking to get another either from my current SubI or upcoming Pulm elective.
ECs: extensive teaching experience in UG and Medical School; little community service

Looking to apply mostly in urban academic or academic-community hospitals.

Midwest: Rush, Loyola, UIC, Advocate Masonic, Advocate Lutheran, Advocate Christ, UC North Shore, Henry Ford, Stroger, Weiss, MacNeal, Med Coll. of Wisconsin, MSU, U of MN, (should I add U of C and NW or would I be throwing my money away?)

East Coast: PCOM, Drexel, Temple, BU, Tufts, Georgetown, George Washington, Jacobi, Montefiore, Rutgers, SUNY Brooklyn,

Los Angeles: ?

Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Broponinelevation]

Med school: top 30 MD
Step 1: 252
Step 2 CK: 275
Step 2 CS: taking this fall
Class rank: unknown, assuming top quartile given AOA
AOA: Senior AOA + GHHS
Grades: all A's in 3rd year clerkships except 1 B+, top of the class in IM rotation though
Research: did a few presentations, 2 posters, 1 paper in low impact journal, working on a project now that i'd be 3rd author in high impact journal this fall but who knows if that will get submitted before interviews
ECs: meh, nothing impressive
LOR: got a few bigwigs that are nationally known

My wife is going to get her doctorate and we need to be flexible with her applications to various schools. I'm very interested in primary care with the goal of becoming a clinician educator and being involved in academics. trying to stay on the east coast ideally

Short list:
MGH, BWH, BID, Yale, Penn, + PC track for these programs
Pitt, UVA, UNC +PC track, Duke, UAB, UTSW, Wake Forest
+ Case, Northwestern, UC denver +PC (family ties etc)

My questions:
1. Is my list too short? i know the top tier programs are a crapshoot and i want to have options when it comes to ranking time
2. Decent shot at landing one of the north carolina programs? for family and other reasons really interested in UNC and Duke especially

 

[acapnial]

Hey everyone! Trying to get ready for the upcoming cycle and could use some help on narrowing down my list.

Med school: Midwest DO school
Step1/COMLEX: 259 (734)
Step2/COMLEX: 252 (738)
Class rank: Top 15%
AOA: N/A
Clinicals: no honors system, but all A's in clinicals
Research: small project with 2 posters and a pending publication
LOR: 1 Dept of Medicine (standard), 1 IM Attending which should be solid, 1 Family attending (should also be solid), and looking to get another either from my current SubI or upcoming Pulm elective.
ECs: extensive teaching experience in UG and Medical School; little community service

Looking to apply mostly in urban academic or academic-community hospitals.

Midwest: Rush, Loyola, UIC, Advocate Masonic, Advocate Lutheran, Advocate Christ, UC North Shore, Henry Ford, Stroger, Weiss, MacNeal, Med Coll. of Wisconsin, MSU, U of MN, (should I add U of C and NW or would I be throwing my money away?)

East Coast: PCOM, Drexel, Temple, BU, Tufts, Georgetown, George Washington, Jacobi, Montefiore, Rutgers, SUNY Brooklyn,

Los Angeles: ?

Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks!

You're probably throwing your money away at U chicago and NW. Your'e definitely throwing your money away at BU, and I don't think I've ever heard of a DO matching at tufts. You should probably do a search on SUNY downstate before you send an app there.

I'd consider adding U Indiana, U Nebraska, Wright State, U cincinnati (all 4 depending on how urban you want it to be). Are programs on the west coast outside of los angeles ok? OHSU, scripps green, uc irvine would be good to consider.

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Med school: top 30 MD
Step 1: 252
Step 2 CK: 275
Step 2 CS: taking this fall
Class rank: unknown, assuming top quartile given AOA
AOA: Senior AOA + GHHS
Grades: all A's in 3rd year clerkships except 1 B+, top of the class in IM rotation though
Research: did a few presentations, 2 posters, 1 paper in low impact journal, working on a project now that i'd be 3rd author in high impact journal this fall but who knows if that will get submitted before interviews
ECs: meh, nothing impressive
LOR: got a few bigwigs that are nationally known

My wife is going to get her doctorate and we need to be flexible with her applications to various schools, plus we will have a newborn so that complicates things as well. I'm very interested in primary care with the goal of becoming a clinician educator and being involved in academics. trying to stay on the east coast ideally

Short list:
MGH, BWH, BID, Yale, Penn, + PC track for these programs
Pitt, UVA, UNC +PC track, Duke, UAB, UTSW, Wake Forest
+ Case, Northwestern, UC denver +PC (family ties etc)

My questions:
1. Is my list too short? i know the top tier programs are a crapshoot and i want to have options when it comes to ranking time
2. Decent shot at landing one of the north carolina programs? for family and other reasons really interested in UNC and Duke especially

I assume the absence of NYC/Baltimore program(s) means that you and your wife have decided to cross those cities off of the list. Otherwise, your list looks very reasonable and you have a great shot at matching at one of those institutions (certainly UNC, Case, Wake Forest, and UAB given your credentials). With that being said, I would add on Vanderbilt and Emory to that list since you are looking at Southeastern programs. Also, WashU would be a good choice as well since you are considering UTSW/UC Denver.

 

[Taddy Mason]

.

 

[TripleOpIMXD]

Med school: Unranked in TX
STEP I: 220
STEP II: 240
Rank: Somewhere in bottom 2 quarters
MS3: Passes in everything including medicine
Research: 1 peer review journal pub in basic sciences, 2 conference presentations (3 total)
No ECs/community service

I have family ties to east coast specifically NY and New Jersey. Lived all life in TX but would like to go to NY.

What are my chances at NYU, Northwell (previously Northshore LIJ), Stony Brook, UMDNJ, and Robert Wood Johnson?

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

US Allopathic Senior, US Citizen
Step 1: 222
Step 2: Unfortunately won't be able to take until the end of Sept. or early Oct.
Preclinical Grades: All pass
MS3 Grades: All pass
Med School Rank: Unranked midwest state school
Class rank: Somewhere in the bottom 2 quarters
AOA: Lol, nope
Research: Yup, but no pubs, abstracts, or presentations
Lots of extracurricular activities and community service
Red flags: Took a LOA during my first rotation of 3rd year due to family reasons which won't allow for any time off in 4th year so I can graduate on time.

Ideally I'd like to end up in an academic residency or solid community program and am planning on pursuing a Pulm/CCM fellowship

I had my wife make a list of places she absolutely would not want to live and used that as a rough guide to make an initial list of 71 programs. Here's what I came up with on my first pass of narrowing it down.

Reach: Colorado, Minnesota, Wisconsin, OHSU

Realistic: UConn, Indiana, Kansas, UMass, Abott Northwestern, Hennepin County, SLU, U Missouri-Columbia, Wake, Iowa, Penn State, Vermont, VCU, Temple, MCW, Nebraska, Rush, Thomas Jefferson, UT Memphis, Drexel, Loyola

Safety: Main Medical Center, Michigan State, Missouri-Kansas City, Wayne State programs, Gunderson, Cook County, Providence Health in Portland, OR.

I'm also considering applying to a few of the combined IM/Psych programs but am still on the fence.

If my list seems random its because I'm pretty open geographically, I just want to stay away from the SW and most of the SE (though I'm willing to make some exceptions with the latter).

Any input as to how my list is in regards to my chances at those programs, or other programs I should consider is greatly appreciated.

Your best shot is to apply to programs with in-house pulm/CC fellowships, as that is the most likely path for you to match into a pulm/CC. Or, do A LOT of research with presentations/publications during residency, which is a stretch given that is not your track record. I would strongly suggest talking to the internal medicine program director or department chair at your home institution and see if there are faculty with connections to low/mid tier internal medicine program who can make calls on your behalf, perhaps even before the interview season, to maximize your chances.

Looking at your list, I would move Jefferson and Iowa to your "reach" category. Truth be told, those 6 programs have strong IM residencies and I doubt you'll get interviews at more than 1 of them. With that being said, I think the rest of your list looks reasonable. You will need to apply to more residencies; I would aim for 30-35 low-mid tier IM residencies in geographically acceptable areas. If you have specific regions in mind, feel free to PM me and I can give additional suggestions.

Med school: Unranked in TX
STEP I: 220
STEP II: 240
Rank: Somewhere in bottom 2 quarters
MS3: Passes in everything including medicine
Research: 1 peer review journal pub in basic sciences, 2 conference presentations (3 total)
No ECs/community service

I have family ties to east coast specifically NY and New Jersey. Lived all life in TX but would like to go to NY.

What are my chances at NYU, Northwell (previously Northshore LIJ), Stony Brook, UMDNJ, and Robert Wood Johnson?

Unfortunately, your chance at NYU is slim-to-none. You have an ok shot at one of the other institutions you mentioned, but no guarantees. To maximize your chances, you should stress research (which is the strong point in your application) in your personal statement and on interviews. If you are set on being in NY, I would suggest applying to the various community programs in area with academic affiliation (i.e. Jacobi, Beth Israel, etc.)

 

[dandelion1234]

Hi everyone

We just found out about AOA recently, and unfortunately, I wasn't selected.
I have honors in every clinical rotation/elective, Step 1 250+, a lot of extracurriculars (including leadership and community service as well as some research [although no publications]). I received excellent comments in all of my clerkships and I can't think of any red flags that might possibly be on my application.

Will not being selected for AOA hurt my application? I will be applying for IM with the goal of a fellowship in the future and opportunities to do research and teach one day (so am looking to do residency at an academic institution) but I would really like to stay in NYC.

Thank you!

 

[Thegirlfromfenweh]

Hey ya'll!
It's coming around to that time of year again. Any input is appreciated

School is Low to Mid Tier in the NE

Step 1- 242
Step 2- waiting for results
Grades: ~ top quartile
Clinical Grades: Honors IM and OB/GYN, High Pass Peds and Psych, Pass family and surgery
AOA: elections soon
Research: 3 poster presentations (one of which was a QI), 1 conference presentation; plan on finishing 2-3 case reports before next year
Extracurriculars: leadership position in 3 school clubs, 200+ hours of free clinic, teaching, coaching, medical staff at community and sporting events
LOR: Plan on getting letters from 2+ IM physicians

Programs Being Considered
1. Southeast: UNC (#1), Wake, Duke, UVA
2. Northeast: Penn, Jeff, Temple, Einstein PA,
NYP, NYU, Sinai, Einstein NY, LIJ, SUNY Brooklyn, SUNY Stony Brook
Boston Med, Beth Deacon, Tufts, UMass
JHU, UMD

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hi everyone

We just found out about AOA recently, and unfortunately, I wasn't selected.
I have honors in every clinical rotation/elective, Step 1 250+, a lot of extracurriculars (including leadership and community service as well as some research [although no publications]). I received excellent comments in all of my clerkships and I can't think of any red flags that might possibly be on my application.

Will not being selected for AOA hurt my application? I will be applying for IM with the goal of a fellowship in the future and opportunities to do research and teach one day (so am looking to do residency at an academic institution) but I would really like to stay in NYC.

Thank you!

Are you a medical student at one of the big 4 in NYC? If so, you have the best shot at matching into your home institution, followed by decent shot at the others especially if you have mentors who are willing to make calls on your behalf. If you are not a medical student at one of the big 4, then you have a steeper hill to climb as the lack of research and AOA will hurt you. You have a great shot at Monte and the neighboring programs, but the big 4 will be a crapshoot.

Hey guys, wanted your opinions on a quick question

Unranked school in the south
Step 1 245
Step 2 260
AOA
Honors in all classes third year
Several poster presentations at home institution, no publications or national meeting presentations

Money is an issue as well as coordinating interviews with significant other as we plan to move together and check out the cities. Worth applying to Top tier programs in the northeast and west? Or does <250 step 1, no name school, not living in the geographic region, and lack of publications make it not worth it?

Spending a bit more extra money during the application process >>>>> not applying to enough programs or wondering "what if" in the future. With that being said, I would suggest being strategic about which "top programs" you are applying to as you have slim chance of getting interviews from the likes of MGH,BWH,BID,NYP,NYU,Sinai,Penn,JHH,Duke,UCSF,UCLA. However, you should consider upper-mid tier programs like BMC,Monte,Jefferson,UMD,UVA,UNC,USC etc as "realistic reaches" and see if you land interviews at those places. I would suggest adding on more "safeties" like Tufts,Jacobi,NSLIJ,Stonybrook,Temple,Drexel,GW,Georgetown etc.

Hey ya'll!
It's coming around to that time of year again. Any input is appreciated

School is Low to Mid Tier in the NE

Step 1- 242
Step 2- waiting for results
Grades: ~ top quartile
Clinical Grades: Honors IM and OB/GYN, High Pass Peds and Psych, Pass family and surgery
AOA: elections soon
Research: 3 poster presentations (one of which was a QI), 1 conference presentation; plan on finishing 2-3 case reports before next year
Extracurriculars: leadership position in 3 school clubs, 200+ hours of free clinic, teaching, coaching, medical staff at community and sporting events
LOR: Plan on getting letters from 2+ IM physicians

Programs Being Considered
1. Southeast: UNC (#1), Wake, Duke, UVA
2. Northeast: Penn, Jeff, Temple, Einstein PA,
NYP, NYU, Sinai, Einstein NY, LIJ, SUNY Brooklyn, SUNY Stony Brook
Boston Med, Beth Deacon, Tufts, UMass
JHU, UMD

You will probably receive 1-2 interviews (tops) from from the group of Duke, Penn, NYP, NYU, Sinai, BID, JHU etc if your case reports are published. See my post above but you will get interviews to programs like BMC, Tufts, UMD, Monte, NSLIJ, Stonybrook, Jeff, UVA, UNC, and Wake and will match at one of them.