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[mehc012]

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Can you save up another 1500 or so? You're likely to run in to a lot of problems with a budget that low, even if you buy something notoriously reliable. Your options will go up quite a bit if you can spend closer to 3k.

Nah, all of my best cars have run me under $2k. You can get a great car in that range.

My last 3 cars have all been under $2k each, and none of them has lasted for less than 5yrs, and all of those have been preemptively retired for rust concerns. (goes in for a routine, but pricey repair, find major rust issues, decide that it won't last long, so it's more cost effective to spend $1500 on a new old car than $800 on the repair when I'll need a new car soon anyway).
I refuse to drive a car that I don't trust...so it's never been a "I hope it starts this morning" or "will it make that road trip?" type situation, ever. Any car I own is one I feel confident driving a few thousand miles in whenever I feel like it.

 

[sinombre]

Nah, all of my best cars have run me under $2k. You can get a great car in that range.

My last 3 cars have all been under $2k each, and none of them has lasted for less than 5yrs, and all of those have been preemptively retired for rust concerns. (goes in for a routine, but pricey repair, find major rust issues, decide that it won't last long, so it's more cost effective to spend $1500 on a new old car than $800 on the repair when I'll need a new car soon anyway).
I refuse to drive a car that I don't trust...so it's never been a "I hope it starts this morning" or "will it make that road trip?" type situation, ever. Any car I own is one I feel confident driving a few thousand miles in whenever I feel like it.

Wow, interesting. Do you think this might be location-dependent?

 

[mehc012]

Between Toyota Corrola and Honda Civic, both of which I've owned, the Corrola is the way to go: cheaper, better gas mileage, better reliability, better service, better experience overall. I'll be selling my 2009 civic for an older, cheaper model Toyota.

Word. Honda I trust, but Toyota I love. My dream car is my old 1989 Toyota Camry wagon (before the AC broke, and maybe, in this fantasy land, the original engine before any wear and tear). Fits everything I own, I can reach the top to put fun toys (canoes, bikes, whatever) up there, not an SUV, actually still made of metal, and not crammed full of annoying, stupid, whiny electronics that make it harder to work around when one friggin circuit decides to break after 20yrs. The extent of technology that I want in my car is power windows, functional AC, the most basic car computer ever, and lightbulbs. Maybe a sunroof 😎

I'll install the sound system myself!

 

[mehc012]

Wow, interesting. Do you think this might be location-dependent?

Yes, in that I lived in two of the worst locations for car longevity - MA and VA - where the roads were FULL of salt. Mostly VA (both for how long I lived there and for how much salt they put on their roads - hint, enough so that the roads were still coated in white salt crystals after the snow melted, dissolved the salt, ran off, froze into black ice, melted, repeated, and finally dried.)

The brand new car which we brought with us from ID, where they just put on chains and drive on top of the ice (aka no salt) completely rusted into a barely-functional piece of junk in a few years because they don't do undercarriage coatings out there (those are standard on the East coast). To be fair, though, it was a Hyundai before Hyundai remembered how to build cars again, so it was junky to begin with. Newest car we owned, first to die, most dramatic death sequence (lost the ability to idle, began overheating, started emitting black smoke from under the hood, GUZZLED oil, crappy linkage = can't differentiate between 1st and 3rd until you try starting, etc...poor thing, all that and it still did whatever we asked it to!)

I will say that it's all about picking the right car, and buying it before your old one dies so there's less pressure. My mom had 18 POS cars in 2½ years because she was dirt-poor and my dad kept bringing home junkers with MAJOR problems saying "I'll fix that for you" and never doing so...this meant that by the time my mom and I were living by ourselves picking out used cars, she had experience with almost every kind of major issue you could encounter and a ridiculously broad range of car makes/models for reference. She knew what she was looking for, and so "picking a good used car" was one of my biggest lessons as a kid.

 

[acslater99]

Wow, Thanks for the advice guys I will look into this.

 

[dudeliness]

Yes, in that I lived in two of the worst locations for car longevity - MA and VA - where the roads were FULL of salt. Mostly VA (both for how long I lived there and for how much salt they put on their roads - hint, enough so that the roads were still coated in white salt crystals after the snow melted, dissolved the salt, ran off, froze into black ice, melted, repeated, and finally dried.)

The brand new car which we brought with us from ID, where they just put on chains and drive on top of the ice (aka no salt) completely rusted into a barely-functional piece of junk in a few years because they don't do undercarriage coatings out there (those are standard on the East coast). To be fair, though, it was a Hyundai before Hyundai remembered how to build cars again, so it was junky to begin with. Newest car we owned, first to die, most dramatic death sequence (lost the ability to idle, began overheating, started emitting black smoke from under the hood, GUZZLED oil, crappy linkage = can't differentiate between 1st and 3rd until you try starting, etc...poor thing, all that and it still did whatever we asked it to!)

I will say that it's all about picking the right car, and buying it before your old one dies so there's less pressure. My mom had 18 POS cars in 2½ years because she was dirt-poor and my dad kept bringing home junkers with MAJOR problems saying "I'll fix that for you" and never doing so...this meant that by the time my mom and I were living by ourselves picking out used cars, she had experience with almost every kind of major issue you could encounter and a ridiculously broad range of car makes/models for reference. She knew what she was looking for, and so "picking a good used car" was one of my biggest lessons as a kid.

Hey this sounds like me growing up! Grew up in northern Michigan and over the course of 7 yrs we went through 35+ cars. I had the pleasure of working on nearly all of them. My dad was a chiropractor and one of his patients was a mechanic. He had a pole barn with a hydraulic lift and $100,000 worth of tools. He had hurt his back so he would just sit in a chair and tell me what to do. Best experience of my life!
But buying junk cars can be VERY expensive. Sure, some of our cars cost us $1, no joke, but 35+ cars gets expensive!

 

[touchpause13]

Anyone know what's a good first car to get for college?

Trying to get it off craigslist and my budget is low, 1500.


thanks 🙂

A saturn. They last 4ever , very low maintance and get good gas milage

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[touchpause13]

Yes, in that I lived in two of the worst locations for car longevity - MA and VA - where the roads were FULL of salt. Mostly VA (both for how long I lived there and for how much salt they put on their roads - hint, enough so that the roads were still coated in white salt crystals after the snow melted, dissolved the salt, ran off, froze into black ice, melted, repeated, and finally dried.)

The brand new car which we brought with us from ID, where they just put on chains and drive on top of the ice (aka no salt) completely rusted into a barely-functional piece of junk in a few years because they don't do undercarriage coatings out there (those are standard on the East coast).

I find it hilarious how warm states freak the **** out over tiny amounts of snow and salt the living **** out of roads. North dakota doesn't salt period and MN barely does.

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[SilentSoldier]

A saturn. They last 4ever , very low maintance and get good gas milage

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Lies and falsehoods. My first car was a Saturn and it was a piece of crap. when it wasn't in the shop for a myriad of issues, it was getting stolen due to how easy it was to break into. The last straw was when the transmission blew on me without warning... In the middle of the freeway. Never again Saturn. Never. Again 😡😡😡

 

[dudeliness]

Lies and falsehoods. My first car was a Saturn and it was a piece of crap. when it wasn't in the shop for a myriad of issues, it was getting stolen due to how easy it was to break into. The last straw was when the transmission blew on me without warning... In the middle of the freeway. Never again Saturn. Never. Again 😡😡😡

Yeah I wasn't gonna say anything, but Saturns are poo

 

[touchpause13]

Wow I really haven't heard of ppl having that bad of experiences before. My fiances is a 96 w/ almost 200k miles and runs perfectly

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[Juan Solo]

Just realized that today is taco Tuesday! Excited!

 

[SilentSoldier]

Just realized that today is taco Tuesday! Excited!

Many summer memories of taco Tuesdays. Margaritas and cervezas mmmmm

 

[Juan Solo]

Many summer memories of taco Tuesdays. Margaritas and cervezas mmmmm

5 o'clock can't come soon enough for margaritas and cervezas

 

[SilentSoldier]

Wow I really haven't heard of ppl having that bad of experiences before. My fiances is a 96 w/ almost 200k miles and runs perfectly

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Mine was a 94 SL1 and terricraptasic. My brother got a 2001 and that one blew on him as well and now collects dust on the driveway.

 

[mehc012]

Hey this sounds like me growing up! Grew up in northern Michigan and over the course of 7 yrs we went through 35+ cars. I had the pleasure of working on nearly all of them. My dad was a chiropractor and one of his patients was a mechanic. He had a pole barn with a hydraulic lift and $100,000 worth of tools. He had hurt his back so he would just sit in a chair and tell me what to do. Best experience of my life!
But buying junk cars can be VERY expensive. Sure, some of our cars cost us $1, no joke, but 35+ cars gets expensive!

Especially cuz when you're buying $1 cars, it's usually cuz every single dollar counts, you know?

I was too young to help work on the cars, but I didn't miss much, because he rarely actually worked on them. To be fair we didn't have a sweet setup like that. My mom'd just drive them until they REALLY REALLY died and then they'd fill the crevices with water and sell them off by weight as scrap metal.

I've heard about everything from the car with the torn frame, to the one with no front seats that she bolted a bucket into, to the one with no heat (in idaho winter) that she lined the dashboard with sterno cans as defrosters and drove around with flaming cans hoping the glass didn't shatter...as well as your usual mix of engine, transmission, and suspension problems!

PS, not to be rude, but aside from the part where he actually couldn't do things, isn't "chiropractor with a bad back" a little bit ironic? Or did you mean that the mechanic with the bad back just told you what to do? That makes a lot lot more sense and I'm going to stop talking now.

 

[IniestaDeMiVida]

AGENT B! Beckham is starting for PSG today. Are you going to watch?!

 

[487806]

Wow I really haven't heard of ppl having that bad of experiences before. My fiances is a 96 w/ almost 200k miles and runs perfectly

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Nooooooo. You're in probation!!! So much for our LGBT debate. 🙁

 

[487806]

AGENT B! Beckham is starting for PSG today. Are you going to watch?!

No sorry. I have class. 🙁

 

[dudeliness]

Especially cuz when you're buying $1 cars, it's usually cuz every single dollar counts, you know?

I was too young to help work on the cars, but I didn't miss much, because he rarely actually worked on them. To be fair we didn't have a sweet setup like that. My mom'd just drive them until they REALLY REALLY died and then they'd fill the crevices with water and sell them off by weight as scrap metal.

I've heard about everything from the car with the torn frame, to the one with no front seats that she bolted a bucket into, to the one with no heat (in idaho winter) that she lined the dashboard with sterno cans as defrosters and drove around with flaming cans hoping the glass didn't shatter...as well as your usual mix of engine, transmission, and suspension problems!

PS, not to be rude, but aside from the part where he actually couldn't do things, isn't "chiropractor with a bad back" a little bit ironic? Or did you mean that the mechanic with the bad back just told you what to do? That makes a lot lot more sense and I'm going to stop talking now.

Yeah, mechanic with a bad back. 😆
Sometimes when writing very long run-on sentences my grammar can be confusing.

I thought I had crazy repair stories but you've got me beat. Bolted buckets for seats and Sterno cans for heat???? Oh my goodness, that's too hick for even me! 😉

 

[Guero]

Word. Honda I trust, but Toyota I love. My dream car is my old 1989 Toyota Camry wagon (before the AC broke, and maybe, in this fantasy land, the original engine before any wear and tear). Fits everything I own, I can reach the top to put fun toys (canoes, bikes, whatever) up there, not an SUV, actually still made of metal, and not crammed full of annoying, stupid, whiny electronics that make it harder to work around when one friggin circuit decides to break after 20yrs. The extent of technology that I want in my car is power windows, functional AC, the most basic car computer ever, and lightbulbs. Maybe a sunroof 😎

I'll install the sound system myself!

Hah, you rule! Marry me.

On a side note, why is touchpause on probation? What the heck happened? She's been nothing but sweet... Did I miss something?

 

[mehc012]

Hah, you rule! Marry me.

On a side note, why is touchpause on probation? What the heck happened? She's been nothing but sweet... Did I miss something?

Heh, find me that car and I just might...as long as you're willing to, you know, actually USE it to DO stuff!

And I have no idea...I'm going to assume it's a remnant from the most committed AFD prank ever until informed otherwise!

 

[mehc012]

Yeah, mechanic with a bad back. 😆
Sometimes when writing very long run-on sentences my grammar can be confusing.

I thought I had crazy repair stories but you've got me beat. Bolted buckets for seats and Sterno cans for heat???? Oh my goodness, that's too hick for even me! 😉

Hold on there, mister...we were NOT "hicks", we were "trailer trash", thank you very much

And then we downgraded to a brand-new Hyundai 😎 I jest, I jest...Hyundai's aren't that bad. But almost...

 

[Ellie Arroway]

Touchpause & I were both given infractions due to snarking on the CAM forum, I think.

 

[487806]

Touchpause & I were both given infractions due to snarking on the CAM forum, I think.

Good thing I didn't post there.

 

[dudeliness]

Hold on there, mister...we were NOT "hicks", we were "trailer trash", thank you very much

And then we downgraded to a brand-new Hyundai 😎 I jest, I jest...Hyundai's aren't that bad. But almost...

Newer more recent Hyundais are actually but too bad.

And I know all about hicks/trailer trash, but I was never picky enough to preferentially pick one term over the other.

 

[Ellie Arroway]

Good thing I didn't post there.

 

[487806]

😕😕😕

I really didn't. Not sure what proof you have.

 

[mehc012]

Newer more recent Hyundais are actually but too bad.

And I know all about hicks/trailer trash, but I was never picky enough to preferentially pick one term over the other.

I'm assuming you meant 'not' and yeah, you're right there...I think at some point I referenced ours as coming "before Hyundai remembered how to make cars again" or something. Still loved that car...we abused the hell outta it!

I was just giving you crap on the name...I don't think 4yr-old me cared too much! But living in VA gives an ENTIRELY different meaning to 'hick' that involves a lot more redneck than I care to detail

 

[dudeliness]

I'm assuming you meant 'not' and yeah, you're right there...I think at some point I referenced ours as coming "before Hyundai remembered how to make cars again" or something. Still loved that car...we abused the hell outta it!

I was just giving you crap on the name...I don't think 4yr-old me cared too much! But living in VA gives an ENTIRELY different meaning to 'hick' that involves a lot more redneck than I care to detail

Yeah I meant "not". Guess I should spell check more often. 🙄
Growing up in northern Michigan I don't think we understood the nuances of hick vs trailer trash vs whatever. 😀

 

[touchpause13]

Touchpause & I were both given infractions due to snarking on the CAM forum, I think.

This is correct.

Also AgentB id love to continue our lgbtqa debate!

thanks for the support y'all!

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[487806]

Hey Iniesta. Barca and PSG = 2-2!

 

[487806]

This is correct.

Also AgentB id love to continue our lgbtqa debate!

thanks for the support y'all!

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So I relooked carefully into the "sex vs gender" definition, and I believe the definitions are exactly the same. From a sociology textbook:

Sex = biological distinction between males and females.
Gender = an element of culture and refers to personal traits and patterns of behavior that a culture attaches to being female or male.

So, they are equivalent. A society's perception of someone being a woman is in fact a woman. Care to give me a counterexample?

I honestly have no problem with the LGB part. The T and Q are the different story.

 

[touchpause13]

So I relooked carefully into the "sex vs gender" definition, and I believe the definitions are exactly the same. From a sociology textbook:

Sex = biological distinction between males and females.
Gender = an element of culture and refers to personal traits and patterns of behavior that a culture attaches to being female or male.

So, they are equivalent. A society's perception of someone being a woman is in fact a woman. Care to give me a counterexample?

I honestly have no problem with the LGB part. The T and Q are the different story.

🙁 why u have problem wif me 🙁 🙁
I agree a society's perception of someone being a woman is in fact a woman. Your definition does leave out androgynous ppl but w/e if we just want to work w/in the gender binary that's fine. My only cavat is that just because someone looks like a woman does not necessarily mean they were born with (or even have) a vagina
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[487806]

🙁 why u have problem wif me 🙁 🙁
I agree a society's perception of someone being a woman is in fact a woman. Your definition does leave out androgynous ppl but w/e if we just want to work w/in the gender binary that's fine. My only cavat is that just because someone looks like a woman does not necessarily mean they were born with (or even have) a vagina
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See. What's the counterexample?

And is an MtFtM a transgender?

I absolutely refuse to believe the Q is any different from an L or G.

Update: Androgynous people are still part of M/F gender. They have a genetic abnormality.

 

[mehc012]

See. What's the counterexample?

And is an MtFtM a transgender?

I absolutely refuse to believe the Q is any different from an L or G.

Update: Androgynous people are still part of M/F gender. They have a genetic abnormality.

The point is that some people define THEMSELVES as other than straight, L, or G, and LGBTQ groups are accepting of alternate definitions. You are not.

I don't get it either, but if the distinction is important to someone, who am I to argue it? It in no way affects my life, but it apparently strongly affects those who identify as queer, androgenous, trans, or whatever...so why would I get to define it?

 

[SpaceyWacey]

So I relooked carefully into the "sex vs gender" definition, and I believe the definitions are exactly the same. From a sociology textbook:

Sex = biological distinction between males and females.
Gender = an element of culture and refers to personal traits and patterns of behavior that a culture attaches to being female or male.

So, they are equivalent. A society's perception of someone being a woman is in fact a woman. Care to give me a counterexample?

I honestly have no problem with the LGB part. The T and Q are the different story.

Sorry I know I'm jumping into this blind so if this argument has already been stated I'm sorry. Masculine and feminine are gender categories. Essentially, if a society or a person considers themselves predominantly masculine, and she is biologically female, then her gender does not match her sex. The same can be said for males. If he partakes in what his culture considers feminine (such as going to salons, dressing in more feminine clothes, makeup, etc.) then his SEX is male, but he is feminine (which is considered a gender category).

 

[487806]

The point is that some people define THEMSELVES as other than straight, L, or G, and LGBTQ groups are accepting of alternate definitions. You are not.

I don't get it either, but if the distinction is important to someone, who am I to argue it? It in no way affects my life, but it apparently strongly affects those who identify as queer, androgenous, trans, or whatever...so why would I get to define it?

Yeah I agree that in the political world, laws attacking LGBT rights are absurd... the economy is more important; social issues are not.

Now, I'm honestly really confused here. So, I will present few questions:

1. What's the difference between cis and trans M/F? Are E and Z involved?
2. Is a metrosexual male who defines himself a female a transgender?
3. Why is the feminist movement closely allied with LGBT?
4. How is queer different from L or G?
5. Is anarcho-queer the same as anarcha-feminism?

 

[487806]

Sorry I know I'm jumping into this blind so if this argument has already been stated I'm sorry. Masculine and feminine are gender categories. Essentially, if a society or a person considers themselves predominantly masculine, and she is biologically female, then her gender does not match her sex. The same can be said for males. If he partakes in what his culture considers feminine (such as going to salons, dressing in more feminine clothes, makeup, etc.) then his SEX is male, but he is feminine (which is considered a gender category).

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. The society views someone as male or female because of their biological appearance as such (namely their sex). A metrosexual man isn't female in gender. A tomboy isn't male in gender. I hate to say this, but the distinction between sex and gender only occurred because of the "First World" neoliberal sexual revolution.

 

[touchpause13]

Yeah I agree that in the political world, laws attacking LGBT rights are absurd... the economy is more important; social issues are not.

Now, I'm honestly really confused here. So, I will present few questions:

1. What's the difference between cis and trans M/F? Are E and Z involved?
2. Is a metrosexual male who defines himself a female a transgender?
3. Why is the feminist movement closely allied with LGBT?
4. How is queer different from L or G?
5. Is anarcho-queer the same as anarcha-feminism?

1. cis-M = born a male and identifies as male trans-M = born a female and identifies as female. vice versa for female
2. if you are born male but identify as female you are trans. not sure how you are putting metrosexual into this
3. because a lot of homophobia is associated with misogyny (gay men are viewed as lesser because they are "like women"). also women who sleep with other women have unique issues w/in a patriarchial society which can be addressed by feminism
4. i identify as queer because i feel like L, G, B are too limiting to fully express my sexuality and i want to be able to identify as not straight without have to give my personal sexual history
5.i have no idea what this is.

 

[487806]

1. cis-M = born a male and identifies as male trans-M = born a female and identifies as female. vice versa for female
2. if you are born male but identify as female you are trans. not sure how you are putting metrosexual into this
3. because a lot of homophobia is associated with misogyny (gay men are viewed as lesser because they are "like women"). also women who sleep with other women have unique issues w/in a patriarchial society which can be addressed by feminism
4. i identify as queer because i feel like L, G, B are too limiting to fully express my sexuality and i want to be able to identify as not straight without have to give my personal sexual history
5.i have no idea what this is.

Sorry, 1 doesn't make much sense. Could you clarify?

3. Why would men have a problem with two women sleeping?

4. Q doesn't make sense. It's being redundant.

5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-queer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcha-feminism

I am personally anarcho-totalitarianist.

 

[touchpause13]

And is an MtFtM a transgender?

what in the hell is an MtFtM?

I absolutely refuse to believe the Q is any different from an L or G. [/QUOTE}

I don't care what you believe. I'm queer.

Update: Androgynous people are still part of M/F gender. They have a genetic abnormality.

that's a pretty dick-ish thing to say.

 

[487806]

what in the hell is an MtFtM?

I absolutely refuse to believe the Q is any different from an L or G.

I don't care what you believe. I'm queer.

Update: Androgynous people are still part of M/F gender. They have a genetic abnormality.

that's a pretty dick-ish thing to say.

Male-to-Female-to-Male = born a male initially, but later became a female, but soon changed her mind and became a male.

You're awesome. 😍

How? Sorry if that's abrasive, but genetic abnormalities do cause intersex problems.

 

[touchpause13]

Sorry, 1 doesn't make much sense. Could you clarify?

3. Why would men have a problem with two women sleeping? Most men would actually enjoy it.

4. Q doesn't make sense. It's being redundant.

1.
Hello my name is touchpause. I was born female. I possess a vagina and two X chromosomes. I also identify as a female. This makes me cis-female.

This is John. John was also born female. He also possesses a vagina and two X chromosomes. He identifies as male. He is a transman.

3. now you are just being dense. google corrective rape.

4. It's not redundant. Hi I am touchpause. I enjoy the sexual company of both men and women. I also enjoy kink and BDSM. I do not feel comfortable with the title of bisexual because I don't think it fully describes my sexuality and I do not like the negative labels which are associated with it. I identify as queer.

 

[touchpause13]

Male-to-Female-to-Male = born a male initially, but later became a female, but soon changed her mind and became a male.

You're awesome. 😍

How? Sorry if that's abrasive, but genetic abnormalities do cause intersex problems.

thanks babe!

androgynous =/= intersex

and i'm pretty sure MFM isn't a thing... not at least that I have ever heard of

 

[487806]

1.
Hello my name is touchpause. I was born female. I possess a vagina and two X chromosomes. I also identify as a female. This makes me cis-female.

This is John. John was also born female. He also possesses a vagina and two X chromosomes. He identifies as male. He is a transman.

3. now you are just being dense. google corrective rape.

4. It's not redundant. Hi I am touchpause. I enjoy the sexual company of both men and women. I also enjoy kink and BDSM. I do not feel comfortable with the title of bisexual because I don't think it fully describes my sexuality and I do not like the negative labels which are associated with it. I identify as queer.

Okay, now I know what 1 means. I searched 3 = . Okay, #4 makes sense sort of.

 

[487806]

thanks babe!

androgynous =/= intersex

and i'm pretty sure MFM isn't a thing... not at least that I have ever heard of

What the... stupid sociology textbook. Could you clarify? I searched everywhere, and they are equivalent.

 

[SpaceyWacey]

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. The society views someone as male or female because of their biological appearance as such (namely their sex). A metrosexual man isn't female in gender. A tomboy isn't male in gender. I hate to say this, but the distinction between sex and gender only occurred because of the "First World" neoliberal sexual revolution.

Yes that's true, but this 'revolution' arose from the need of certain people to use more appropriate terms to fully express themselves.

I absolutely refuse to believe the Q is any different from an L or G.

I don't care what you believe. I'm queer.

As you can see, that can be pretty insulting. Q is different that L and G, its more expansive and lets people express who they really are.

Hells yea, first time top! (sounds inappropriate I am sorry)

 

[487806]

Yes that's true, but this 'revolution' arose from the need of certain people to use more appropriate terms to fully express themselves.



As you can see, that can be pretty insulting. Q is different that L and G, its more expansive and lets people express who they really are.

Then eliminate L, B and G, and form a TQ society!

 

[touchpause13]

What the... stupid sociology textbook. Could you clarify? I searched everywhere, and they are equivalent.

wikipedia: Androgyny is a term derived from the Greek words ανήρ, stem ανδρ- (anér, andr-, meaning man) and γυνή (gyné, meaning woman), referring to the combination of masculine and feminine characteristics. This may be as in fashion, gender identity, sexual identity, or sexual lifestyle, or it may refer to biological intersex physicality, especially with regards to plant and human sexuality.

It can refer to intersex, but not always