Pharmacy is slowly going down. CVS/WAGs is a true def of modern day slavery. What are our options?

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Modest_anteater said:
I am passionate for the field, that is exactly why I don't care about money/salary for working. I would work as a pharmacist for 7.25 USD an hour and be happy. You on the other hand: "so i can guarantee a high paying job" I think maybe you are the one driven by greed.
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But would you go to school for 6 years at whatever the going rate is today? We'll say $150k.
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wagrxm2000 said:
But would you go to school for 6 years at whatever the going rate is today? We'll say $150k.
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I would never go to school for 6 years. THat is just being dumb IMO. Why get a degree in 6 years when you can get it in 4
 
Modest_anteater said:
I would never go to school for 6 years. THat is just being dumb IMO. Why get a degree in 6 years when you can get it in 4
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Ok just completely ignore the question.

How big of a student loan are you willing to have if you'll be paid $7.25/hour?

You said you'd work for that much.
 
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wagrxm2000 said:
Ok just completely ignore the question.

How big of a student loan are you willing to have if you'll be paid $7.25/hour?

You said you'd work for that much.
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7.25 USD / hour isn't my ideal wage by any means. If I was working for that wage I would be on Income-Based-Repayment of my loans. So it wouldn't really matter if my loans were 100,000 USD or 400,000 USD as they would be paid off at the same time. An more ideal wage would be around 30 USD an hour which would allow me to pay my loans off in 5 years. That is my goal wage 30 USD an hour. Any above it and I will be excited. Below it and I will accept it but won't be elevated. As I said earlier, too many pharmD students feel entitled to a job. That's not how this industry works anymore. It's not the golden years anymore, it's the salt years. A full time, non floating job is a blessing not a guarantee. You have unrealistic expectations if you went into pharmacy to be wealthy or even be middle class. PharmD studies are quickly becoming an oath of poverty.
 
Modest_anteater said:
7.25 USD / hour isn't my ideal wage by any means. If I was working for that wage I would be on Income-Based-Repayment of my loans. So it wouldn't really matter if my loans were 100,000 USD or 400,000 USD as they would be paid off at the same time. An more ideal wage would be around 30 USD an hour which would allow me to pay my loans off in 5 years. That is my goal wage 30 USD an hour. Any above it and I will be excited. Below it and I will accept it but won't be elevated. As I said earlier, too many pharmD students feel entitled to a job. That's not how this industry works anymore. It's not the golden years anymore, it's the salt years. A full time, non floating job is a blessing not a guarantee. You have unrealistic expectations if you went into pharmacy to be wealthy or even be middle class. PharmD studies are quickly becoming an oath of poverty.
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Let's stop making this perfect, if pharmacists only made $7.25/hour, there isn't going to be government assistance in any form.

You will be paying back that loan entirely.

Still think it's worth it?

It's not about entitlement, the market sets the wage. None of these kids, not even yourself would have joined if the salary was $30/hour.
 
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wagrxm2000 said:
It's not about entitlement, the market sets the wage. None of these kids, not even yourself would have joined if the salary was $30/hour.
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I hope the 7.25/hr is an exaggeration. I agree that pharmacy isn’t what it used to be, but I’m still managing (and feel successful) at current wages. Doesn’t mean that I’m set—still beefing up my skills and pursuing other interests in case this profession sinks to a new low
 
Modest_anteater said:
I am passionate for the field, that is exactly why I don't care about money/salary for working. I would work as a pharmacist for 7.25 USD an hour and be happy. You on the other hand: "so i can guarantee a high paying job" I think maybe you are the one driven by greed.
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Hi Aspiring Philanthropist,

We realize that you may be too overwhelmed by the amount of money you are making. As a result, arrangement will be made to transfer your excess income to the account of your favorite charity. Since you would be happy to work for $7.25/hour, We can make arrangements to have you donate (Y - $7.25 ) multiply by the no of hours worked a week to the charity of your choice. ( where Y is your estimated hourly rate after taxes and deductions ). Terms and conditions apply

This way we can fulfill your dream income of $7.25 an hour, help some less privilege people out there make a better life , and relieve you off the excess income you are saddled with. It’s a win-win for all parties involved. Please reply back and let me know your decision.
 
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Modest_anteater said:
7.25 USD / hour isn't my ideal wage by any means. If I was working for that wage I would be on Income-Based-Repayment of my loans. So it wouldn't really matter if my loans were 100,000 USD or 400,000 USD as they would be paid off at the same time. An more ideal wage would be around 30 USD an hour which would allow me to pay my loans off in 5 years. That is my goal wage 30 USD an hour. Any above it and I will be excited. Below it and I will accept it but won't be elevated. As I said earlier, too many pharmD students feel entitled to a job. That's not how this industry works anymore. It's not the golden years anymore, it's the salt years. A full time, non floating job is a blessing not a guarantee. You have unrealistic expectations if you went into pharmacy to be wealthy or even be middle class. PharmD studies are quickly becoming an oath of poverty.
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Blah, blah, blah...please go troll elsewhere or do something useful/meaningful with your life. Tired of hearing you saying without any actions playing a constant game of "what if"

Or better yet, just create yourself an imaginary friend you can argue with about your nonsense 24/7
 
Chrish said:
At WM salaried floaters do get paid for the mileages (not the driving time) that they drive if it's more than the distance from their home to home-store. Part-timers do get paid for driving time although those positions are exceedingly uncommon.
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When I float, I get paid miles from my door step to the store. None of that “miles from your home store” nonsense.
 
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ImmunoglobulinE said:
Hi Aspiring Philanthropist,

We realize that you may be too overwhelmed by the amount of money you are making. As a result, arrangement will be made to transfer your excess income to the account of your favorite charity. Since you would be happy to work for $7.25/hour, We can make arrangements to have you donate (Y - $7.25 ) multiply by the no of hours worked a week to the charity of your choice. ( where Y is your estimated hourly rate after taxes and deductions ). Terms and conditions apply

This way we can fulfill your dream income of $7.25 an hour, help some less privilege people out there make a better life , and relieve you off the excess income you are saddled with. It’s a win-win for all parties involved. Please reply back and let me know your decision.
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If you read my post my dream income is 30 USD an hour not 7.25...
 
Hey quick question:
Oklahoma just passed a motion that all of their dispensaries for medical MJ will require a pharmacist on premesis.

If Colorado is an indicator, they will be opening a few hundred stores....

What kind of job would that be for a pharmacist? Sounds like a kush gig, pun entirely intended.

What are the licensure implications? Would that look bad on a CV?
 
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RNthenDoc said:
Hey quick question:
Oklahoma just passed a motion that all of their dispensaries for medical MJ will require a pharmacist on premesis.

If Colorado is an indicator, they will be opening a few hundred stores....

What kind of job would that be for a pharmacist? Sounds like a kush gig, pun entirely intended.

What are the licensure implications? Would that look bad on a CV?
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This popped up in my morning news. Stay tuned?
State pharmacy board director allegedly offered job in exchange for controversial medical marijuana rule

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
 
Tried to tell my colleagues in class to go residency route but the $$$$ got to them. Never understood why you would sell out your professional autonomy to go work in an assembly line. I remember when I was a student working retail, the district managers didn't care about how many interventions you made but only how many vaccs you gave, suspensions you flavored, and scripts you processed. You learn all these complex pharmacotherapeutic topics only to become someone's puppet. Not to mention the abuse you get from some of the patients.

I am a current PGY2.. work with a multidisciplinary care team, patients treat me with respect, already got offers on the table making bank (I don't know where the idea that retail makes more than a clinical specialist came from), no weekends, and out by 3 to 4pm. Only making 50k the last 2 years has been worth it.

At the end of my PGY1 there were several applicants that were coming from retail to do a residency. It is extremely difficult because there is the idea that you've lost your clinical knowledge after years in community, but if you've stayed on top of your game you could match, some have.
 
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PharmStu587 said:
Tried to tell my colleagues in class to go residency route but the $$$$ got to them. Never understood why you would sell out your professional autonomy to go work in an assembly line. I remember when I was a student working retail, the district managers didn't care about how many interventions you made but only how many vaccs you gave, suspensions you flavored, and scripts you processed. You learn all these complex pharmacotherapeutic topics only to become someone's puppet. Not to mention the abuse you get from some of the patients.

I am a current PGY2.. work with a multidisciplinary care team, patients treat me with respect, already got offers on the table making bank (I don't know where the idea that retail makes more than a clinical specialist came from), no weekends, and out by 3 to 4pm. Only making 50k the last 2 years has been worth it.

At the end of my PGY1 there were several applicants that were coming from retail to do a residency. It is extremely difficult because there is the idea that you've lost your clinical knowledge after years in community, but if you've stayed on top of your game you could match, some have.
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I used to have a 50/50 clinical job and it was more hectic than retail. My current overnight position is fantastic. I wouldn't go back to hospital pharmacy for the world.
 
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PharmStu587 said:
(I don't know where the idea that retail makes more than a clinical specialist came from), no weekends, and out by 3 to 4pm. Only making 50k the last 2 years has been worth it.
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Historically it has been the case that retail makes considerably more than hospital or clinical. I suspect that is still true in most areas, although if you are a PGY2, then you probably chose a lucrative specialty, which can't be compared to just a regular clinical specialist. And if you live in CA, that's completely different from the rest of the country.
 
PharmStu587 said:
Tried to tell my colleagues in class to go residency route but the $$$$ got to them. Never understood why you would sell out your professional autonomy to go work in an assembly line. I remember when I was a student working retail, the district managers didn't care about how many interventions you made but only how many vaccs you gave, suspensions you flavored, and scripts you processed. You learn all these complex pharmacotherapeutic topics only to become someone's puppet. Not to mention the abuse you get from some of the patients.

I am a current PGY2.. work with a multidisciplinary care team, patients treat me with respect, already got offers on the table making bank (I don't know where the idea that retail makes more than a clinical specialist came from), no weekends, and out by 3 to 4pm. Only making 50k the last 2 years has been worth it.

At the end of my PGY1 there were several applicants that were coming from retail to do a residency. It is extremely difficult because there is the idea that you've lost your clinical knowledge after years in community, but if you've stayed on top of your game you could match, some have.
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Making bank? Like how much here...cuz when I hear making bank...I'm thinking mid 6 figs
 
Lnsean said:
Making bank? Like how much here...cuz when I hear making bank...I'm thinking mid 6 figs
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Sigh, it's always relative isn't it? So say the lawyers at the wife's firm who clear $600k on average and $1.3M on good days. They look up to finance and equity management consulting.

By reasonable definitions, we're making bank. It's just that rather than feel well-off, our sense of materialism gains with it, but also, many of the other 95% has lost ground economically. I prefer thinking in terms of what I can get rather than in comparison with others, and on that note, I do make bank even if I only had the civil service salary.

Personally, I'm really surprised that more people don't aspire to be a professional partier, like Department of State prestige positions. It's not about the money, it's about the lifestyle kind of a job.
 
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Lnsean said:
Making bank? Like how much here...cuz when I hear making bank...I'm thinking mid 6 figs
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The sad thing is some people will read this and think you mean mid 100k.

I think anything above 250-300k is making bank. Pretty much double our salary. If you are making 500k plus you should be financially independent within 10-15 years and that's living well. Financially independent doesn't mean living the same lifestyle of course but you could say FU to the job at anytime. My dream would be retiring by 40, doing what I want for money (maybe deep sea fishing, or some type of similar instructor type make my own schedule) and travel. My reality is 56 (the year I turn 57 I can retire in full if no changes, fingers crossed). Could save 200k easy per year after taxes and in 10 years that's 2 million with ZERO investment gain, and that's putting your money under a mattress.
 
I love my job at CVS and my team, and I owe so much of what I have learned to them.
 
PharmStu587 said:
Tried to tell my colleagues in class to go residency route but the $$$$ got to them. Never understood why you would sell out your professional autonomy to go work in an assembly line. I remember when I was a student working retail, the district managers didn't care about how many interventions you made but only how many vaccs you gave, suspensions you flavored, and scripts you processed. You learn all these complex pharmacotherapeutic topics only to become someone's puppet. Not to mention the abuse you get from some of the patients.

I am a current PGY2.. work with a multidisciplinary care team, patients treat me with respect, already got offers on the table making bank (I don't know where the idea that retail makes more than a clinical specialist came from), no weekends, and out by 3 to 4pm. Only making 50k the last 2 years has been worth it.

At the end of my PGY1 there were several applicants that were coming from retail to do a residency. It is extremely difficult because there is the idea that you've lost your clinical knowledge after years in community, but if you've stayed on top of your game you could match, some have.
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Good for you for going into residency but why talk down and call others a sell out? Patients treat you with respect? You sure those patient will still respect you hearing you say ****s like "i'm better than you b/c i don't work weekend and i'm out by 3 or 4 pm". What kind of ****ty ass residency program lets you out by 3-4? Residents I worked with at Parkland and Dallas VA worked their asses off until 6-7 pm and worked every third weekend.

I'm sure the doctors that you have to kiss ass to will give two ****s about the kind of residency program you went through. Hell, I don't give a fck about your residency and I'm pretty sure I got more degrees, clinical experience and published papers than you. None of my doctor friends have ever boasted about their residency. You're embarrassing yourself by thinking you're better than others.

Somehow I have a feeling you think you're smarter than most RPhs... this will not end well for you. I think you owe an apology.
 
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lord999 said:
Sigh, it's always relative isn't it? So say the lawyers at the wife's firm who clear $600k on average and $1.3M on good days. They look up to finance and equity management consulting.

By reasonable definitions, we're making bank. It's just that rather than feel well-off, our sense of materialism gains with it, but also, many of the other 95% has lost ground economically. I prefer thinking in terms of what I can get rather than in comparison with others, and on that note, I do make bank even if I only had the civil service salary.

Personally, I'm really surprised that more people don't aspire to be a professional partier, like Department of State prestige positions. It's not about the money, it's about the lifestyle kind of a job.
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Owning a well-run independent could get you into making a million a year.
 
ExpressMaiL said:
That isn't easy with a single store but very possible. If they compound, that's a different story.
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Correct. Either a decent size compounding pharmacy or multiple indies could get you into millions. Not common nor easy but very possible.
 
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owlegrad said:
I never worked in or near Miami actually. Anecdotally I’ve heard that Spanish is required just to live in Miami though. ;)
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My uber driver from the airport was basically a Cuban version of my grandma.

I picked up the phone and heard "DONDE ESTAS MI VIDA? YA MERO LLEGO"
 
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VictorOfHungerGames said:
Im working for one right now
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Quite different than being the owner, your stake in the game is nowhere near as much. I'm not saying that you can't, but I am saying that it is definitely the exception. My consulting practice used to have a component of tracking buyouts and failures for certain areas.
 
owlegrad said:
I never worked in or near Miami actually. Anecdotally I’ve heard that Spanish is required just to live in Miami though. ;)
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You should check out Lincoln Road in south beach it's nice. I used to live at the 17th street garage in a used Uhaul cargo van and would go to the Starbucks on Lincoln road to use my laptop and the internet. Then they took out plugs at all the Starbucks but one so all the campers would get into fights over the outlets till I brought a surge protector to share the outlets. Anyone know the deal with all the pretty young girls they pay to stand outside the eateries on Lincoln road near the giant blown up menus?
 
Modest_anteater said:
You should check out Lincoln Road in south beach it's nice. I used to live at the 17th street garage in a used Uhaul cargo van and would go to the Starbucks on Lincoln road to use my laptop and the internet. Then they took out plugs at all the Starbucks but one so all the campers would get into fights over the outlets till I brought a surge protector to share the outlets. Anyone know the deal with all the pretty young girls they pay to stand outside the eateries on Lincoln road near the giant blown up menus?
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What year did they do that? The one on Washington n 12th still had outlets in 2014. I’m pretty sure they still have them today.
And there are pretty young girls with menus asking tourists to come into the restaurants at locations all over that area especially Ocean Drive. The food just looks good, that’s it. Unimpressive. However, Gloria Estefan’s restaurant on Ocean is delicious! The arroz con gris tastes exactly like what you would find in the paladares in Havana, Cuba. And, Cuban flan is always a winner!
 
Mambo#5 said:
What year did they do that? The one on Washington n 12th still had outlets in 2014. I’m pretty sure they still have them today.
And there are pretty young girls with menus asking tourists to come into the restaurants at locations all over that area especially Ocean Drive. The food just looks good, that’s it. Unimpressive. However, Gloria Estefan’s restaurant on Ocean is delicious! The arroz con gris tastes exactly like what you would find in the paladares in Havana, Cuba. And, Cuban flan is always a winner!
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Only the Starbucks on Lincoln road. The only one of the three that still has outlets is the one near Zara at 412 Lincoln Rd Mall, Miami Beach, Florida has outlets now. At the two other ones they have removed outlets to get rid of campers to make room for tourist and make it more tourist friendly. I didn't like ocean ave. Too many drunks and aggressive people. I don't consider Ocean ave. safe at night.
 
Nothing. Been trying to leave but the degree qualifications don't match anything else
 
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One job opening in my area 150,000 population city.

Floater Rph $60/hour and 32 hours weekly guaranteed !!

I heard 45 people applied already with bunch of new grads
 
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nextyearrx said:
One job opening in my area 150,000 population city.

Floater Rph $60/hour and 32 hours weekly guaranteed !!

I heard 45 people applied already with bunch of new grads
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60/hr, welcome to 2010.

Don't worry, the job goes to one of the interns, DL "friend" or the prettiest one!

Keep your hope up folks.
 
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Momus said:
60/hr, welcome to 2010.

Don't worry, the job goes to the one the interns, DL "friend" or the prettiest one!

Keep your hope up folks.
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do you think it will get to the point where people are bribing the regional manager with cash gifts of 5,000 to 15,000 USD to land their first job floating for 32 hours a week?
 
Robbin said:
This is as real as it gets.
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I respectfully disagree. If my calculations are correct. Saturation is just beginning. By 2020 New grad unemployment will be near 30% (and that's counting floating at 32 hours a week "employed"):laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
I just graduated a few months ago.

Here's my non-residency job outlook assessment in North Texas (about half of our residency applicants matched).

The market is tight. Walmart hardly offered anyone in the graduating class in the immediate area, even some of their top interns had to jump ship. I've just heard now from a contact now that they are only offering at $50 an hour for new graduates in this area from this point forward (can't confirm). Kroger, of course, just carried out a major cut, and their staff pharmacists are down to 32 hours per week -- no new graduates hired. A few floaters hired for Tom Thumb/Albertson's. I think about five people hired for Walgreens, but it's a 30 hours max/floater-type thing. A select few hired directly into hospital after excelling at a small hospital rotation. CVS hired about 10 people from my graduating class in the area. However, they had about 20 interns in my class. They got to pick and choose. I can probably estimate that about 35% of my class is still searching. Overall, not too bad at this point in time. The scary thing is there are there are multiple graduating classes stacking up behind us and multiple new schools opening up in the state.

I'm thankful to have stayed with CVS throughout school as I didn't match for residency. However, I just don't see a good long-term outlook. Retail pharmacy seems to be a shrinking field. The downward pressure on both hours and wages is increasingly palpable. And this is right now, before Amazon has gotten into the field. My focus is to pay off my loans as quickly as possible. Time will determine if I will regret going to pharmacy school. If I can get ten years of 6-figure income, it will have been worth it.

Would I get into pharmacy right now, the way the market is trending? Not unless you are incredibly passionate and know which clinical direction you're going to take. I'm seeing some top interns go without offers. I've seen some very qualified residency applicants go without matching. There are simply too many students coming out (specifically, Texas is being flooded by graduates from other, more saturated states). And technology will continue to shrink the field, especially in the major reservoir of jobs that is retail. It's only going to get worse and worse, so if you go to pharmacy school now, you better have a clinical plan and execute it flawlessly.
 
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