Pharmacy School In-State vs. Out of State? Differences?

[John T]

Hello everyone,
I live in California and applied to a variety of in-state schools as well as out of state schools. Apart from costs and networking for a job, what are the differences between going to pharmacy school in california and out of state?

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[DrVader]

I would go to whatever college is the cheapest and which ever state you plan to work in.

 

[John T]

I would go to whatever college is the cheapest and which ever state you plan to work in.

Well, it’s cheaper out of state and I wish to practice in California

 

[Rouelle]

The CPJE is known to be challenging. A California school might better prepare you for it.

 

[John T]

The CPJE is known to be challenging. A California school might better prepare you for it.

Gotcha. Hmmm another aspect to consider.

 

[mfdoom]

I'm from CA but attended an out of state public school. When I got in-state status, it lowered tuition by a good chunk. I didn't think much of it at the time but now that I'm paying off loans, that good chunk of tuition savings is a friggin' godsend because paying off loans is balls. So yeah, retrospectively I would say cost should be a top priority. If you don't attend UCSF or UCSD, you're likely going to be paying 40-60k yearly in tuition alone. COL in CA is also outrageous.

Otherwise, I can't think of any major differences in schooling in-state vs. out of state. I do agree with the above post re: CPJE though; the out of state fail rates this past year were pretty bad. The workaround would be to work for the VA, you can use any state license to practice anywhere.

 

[John T]

I'm from CA but attended an out of state public school. When I got in-state status, it lowered tuition by a good chunk. I didn't think much of it at the time but now that I'm paying off loans, that good chunk of tuition savings is a friggin' godsend because paying off loans is balls. So yeah, retrospectively I would say cost should be a top priority. If you don't attend UCSF or UCSD, you're likely going to be paying 40-60k yearly in tuition alone. COL in CA is also outrageous.

Otherwise, I can't think of any major differences in schooling in-state vs. out of state. I do agree with the above post re: CPJE though; the out of state fail rates this past year were pretty bad. The workaround would be to work for the VA, you can use any state license to practice anywhere.

Thank you for your input! Which out of state school did you attend? Are you working in CA or in that state you went to school to?

Yeah I got into an out of state school that costs 39K a year which is half of the tuition at CA. Yeah I heard about VA work but in reality I would need to take that CPJE for California because ultimately I want to work in CA after graduating. Do you believe in going to pharm school in CA will allow more opportunities in CA since you are doing rotations and making connections in CA as opposed to going out of state?

 

[mfdoom]

I went to school in MD, matched residency back in CA and have been working here since.

If you want to go into retail, staying in CA might be better since you can intern while in school and hopefully get hired into that district once you graduate. If you want to do residency, it might not matter as much if you go out of state, especially if it's a school that's well-established. I saw plenty of CA residency classes with out of state people (but that's anecdotal, n=1, blah blah). This is all based on what I know from a few years ago though; things might be different now that the new schools in CA started graduating their first classes and there are just more pharmacists in general.

 

[John T]

I went to school in MD, matched residency back in CA and have been working here since.

If you want to go into retail, staying in CA might be better since you can intern while in school and hopefully get hired into that district once you graduate. If you want to do residency, it might not matter as much if you go out of state, especially if it's a school that's well-established. I saw plenty of CA residency classes with out of state people (but that's anecdotal, n=1, blah blah). This is all based on what I know from a few years ago though; things might be different now that the new schools in CA started graduating their first classes and there are just more pharmacists in general.

Gotcha. Good to know. Yeah I want to get into clinical/residency. And ultimately work in California. I am in a tough situation because I am accepted to a new California school that will be accredited in 2020. Then I got accepted out of state in Indiana but timid in taking it since it’s out of nowhere and want to get back to California.

 

[MindGeek]

State Specific Exams:
If the state you intend to get licensed in has a state-specific exam other than their respective MPJE then it may be wise to go to a school in that state. Examples include the New York State Part III (Compounding) Exam, the Georgia Practical, and California's CPJE.

Admissions' Preference:
A given school's admission of students may be geared toward in-state students. For example, by charter my private alma mater intended to prepare more pharmacists to serve its city and county. There are only so many pharmacy-seeking students in the 10-county area so this is practically extended to all students in the state. It is implied that out-of-state students will return to their home state, though this is not necessarily true. In my class of 80 there were only 3 out-of-state students. Although the majority of us went to out-of-state schools for undergrad. I'm talking about out-of-state in terms of the state on your permanent address. If you are an in-state resident or even local resident, this could create an easier path for admission. You could look at each school's admission statistics to detect a preference toward in-state students. This is likely reflected in their PharmCAS directory entry as well.

 

[John T]

State Specific Exams:
If the state you intend to get licensed in has a state-specific exam other than their respective MPJE then it may be wise to go to a school in that state. Examples include the New York State Part III (Compounding) Exam, the Georgia Practical, and California's CPJE.

Admissions' Preference:
A given school's admission of students may be geared toward in-state students. For example, by charter my private alma mater intended to prepare more pharmacists to serve its city and county. There are only so many pharmacy-seeking students in the 10-county area so this is practically extended to all students in the state. It is implied that out-of-state students will return to their home state, though this is not necessarily true. In my class of 80 there were only 3 out-of-state students. Although the majority of us went to out-of-state schools for undergrad. I'm talking about out-of-state in terms of the state on your permanent address. If you are an in-state resident or even local resident, this could create an easier path for admission. You could look at each school's admission statistics to detect a preference toward in-state students. This is likely reflected in their PharmCAS directory entry as well.

So you are suggesting that despite the high tuition in California, it will be worth it in the long run if I want to work in CA? Ultimately I wanna do clinical pharmacy/Residency. Also what is your take on new California schools like Marshall B. Ketchum? They will be accredited in 2020. I got accepted here and Manchester University in Indiana.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Gotcha. Good to know. Yeah I want to get into clinical/residency. And ultimately work in California. I am in a tough situation because I am accepted to a new California school that will be accredited in 2020. Then I got accepted out of state in Indiana but timid in taking it since it’s out of nowhere and want to get back to California.

I would stay away from any school that is not accredited.

 

[John T]

I would stay away from any school that is not accredited.

Even if the dean has reputation of establishing accredited schools? So you would choose the out of state school ?

 

[Wickett]

Thank you for your input! Which out of state school did you attend? Are you working in CA or in that state you went to school to?

Yeah I got into an out of state school that costs 39K a year which is half of the tuition at CA. Yeah I heard about VA work but in reality I would need to take that CPJE for California because ultimately I want to work in CA after graduating. Do you believe in going to pharm school in CA will allow more opportunities in CA since you are doing rotations and making connections in CA as opposed to going out of state?

39k a year is way too much cost to go into pharmacy. It's pushing it if you're ONLY taking out loans for tuition, and financial suicide if you also need money for living expenses. If you're family isn't helping to pay, you really are going to be in a debt bind for a long time. If you can't get into a cheaper state school, wait and improve your resume or consider something else. My two cents at least.

 

[BlackDiamond277]

Even if the dean has reputation of establishing accredited schools? So you would choose the out of state school ?

It's a risk that I would be hesitant to take, especially if you have the option to go to a school that is already accredited. Even if the school does become accredited, the fact that it is new and not well-established may make you a less competitive applicant for a job/residency.

 

[John T]

39k a year is way too much cost to go into pharmacy. It's pushing it if you're ONLY taking out loans for tuition, and financial suicide if you also need money for living expenses. If you're family isn't helping to pay, you really are going to be in a debt bind for a long time. If you can't get into a cheaper state school, wait and improve your resume or consider something else. My two cents at least.

If 39k is a lot then my undergraduate college tuition was a lot lol! I’m from Cali and I think 39k is decent. What schools offer cheaper tuition then?

Also I can’t afford to wait another year to apply. Tbh, loans is a must for healthcare professionals. There’s no way out of it. Doctors, pharmacists etc

 

[John T]

It's a risk that I would be hesitant to take, especially if you have the option to go to a school that is already accredited. Even if the school does become accredited, the fact that it is new and not well-established may make you a less competitive applicant for a job/residency.

Do employers really look at that? Or is it more about networking and making relationship with the people you work with on rotations?

 

[BlackDiamond277]

Networking is definitely important, but I've been told that some program directors really do consider what school you're from, especially when they have applicants with similar stats. I also think that 39k for tuition is ridiculous compared to pharmacists salary. Loans are definitely necessary for a lot of people going into pharmacy, but they don't all have to be > 200k.

 

[John T]

Networking is definitely important, but I've been told that some program directors really do consider what school you're from, especially when they have applicants with similar stats. I also think that 39k for tuition is ridiculous compared to pharmacists salary. Loans are definitely necessary for a lot of people going into pharmacy, but they don't all have to be > 200k.

Gotcha. I plan on practicing in Cali so yeah. I feel like out of state schools won’t gear me towards the Cali law test. Really? Why is it ridiculous? I talked to this guy that graduated last year from a Cali school (Touro) and got a job in Cali making 65 an hr.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Given that pharmacy is ultra saturated, employers have their pick of applicants. You don't want to be applying from a position of weakness if you have very strict preferences on where you want to work. Chances are the schools you are considering out of state have no presence in California, and/or the employer has never heard about them nor wants to take a chance when they could just recruit a local graduate.

 

[John T]

Given that pharmacy is ultra saturated, employers have their pick of applicants. You don't want to be applying from a position of weakness if you have very strict preferences on where you want to work. Chances are the schools you are considering out of state have no presence in California, and/or the employer has never heard about them nor wants to take a chance when they could just recruit a local graduate.

So you would choose a Cali school over an out of state school?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Since you're interested in going toward clinical pharmacy I would just pick PA or medicine instead. If you're going for the pay and lifestyle of a clinical pharmacist then I would recommend computer science or engineering. These professions will actually allow you to remain in California, whereas a pharmacist you'll most definitely be forced to settle down and start a new life out of state due to the saturation.

Either way, you're not going to have an easy time finding any job in California once you graduate regardless of the school you go to. You'll most definitely have to work retail 1000+ miles away from your desired place to live, in the middle of nowhere indefinitely.

 

[John T]

Since you're interested in going toward clinical pharmacy I would just pick PA or medicine instead. If you're going for the pay and lifestyle of a clinical pharmacist then I would recommend computer science or engineering. These professions will actually allow you to remain in California, whereas a pharmacist you'll most definitely be forced to settle down and start a new life out of state due to the saturation.

Either way, you're not going to have an easy time finding any job in California once you graduate regardless of the school you go to. You'll most definitely have to work retail 1000+ miles away from your desired place to live, in the middle of nowhere indefinitely.

I already went 100% through this and it’s too late to go back. I’m 26 and plan on being settled at early 30s to start a family after getting a job. I looked into PA and medicine but pharmacy called my name. I don’t mind living somewhere else for now and try to get into California to work. As for jobs, I know a few people that got jobs right after graduating from California pharm schools. Starting 65 an hr. So I think it depends on your profile just like any other job when you apply. To stand out

 

[Apotheker2015]

Even if the dean has reputation of establishing accredited schools? So you would choose the out of state school ?

Here's the deal. I went to a school that has been around for a long time. Top ranked. It was still a $hit $h0w most of the time. I cannot even imagine what things must be like at a school that is not accredited yet.
From the information you have provided here, it is safe to say that your best bet is the less expensive, accredited, out-of-state school. After your first year you can probably appeal your non-resident status; especially if you work and file taxes there. That's what I did. I still ended up with a large bill BUT it was way less than it would have been otherwise. And while rankings do not matter; i.e., going to a top school won't get you a better job, I do believe that going to a solid school will provide you with a solid education. I wasn't even a great student and sometimes I am terrified at the stuff that comes out of the mouths of pharmacists that went to no-name schools. My advice you is - choose wisely.

If you can avoid pharmacy school altogether, even better.

 

[Apotheker2015]

I already went 100% through this and it’s too late to go back. I’m 26 and plan on being settled at early 30s to start a family after getting a job. I looked into PA and medicine but pharmacy called my name. I don’t mind living somewhere else for now and try to get into California to work. As for jobs, I know a few people that got jobs right after graduating from California pharm schools. Starting 65 an hr. So I think it depends on your profile just like any other job when you apply. To stand out

P

John T, there is a lot of truth in what stoichiometrist just shared with you. I am not sure you understand the situation the way we do. We are swimming in these waters and it's overcrowded. I graduated in 2015 and the field deteriorated in an exponential manner while I was in school. It seemed like things were fine. I actually graduated with 6 job offers. Then saturation REALLY set in.

No one here is attacking you. If anything we are just being good Samaritans when steering you in a different direction. You won't be a provider. You won't be able to bill for your services. All your recommendations, whether in retail or hospital, are for free and employers are having a hard time justifying our wages. Then you see them pushing for "advances in the pharmacy technician profession", "tech-check-tech", "Medication history pharmacy technicians". What do you think all of that means? The pharmacists who were doing that job won't be doing it anymore.

 

[John T]

P

John T, there is a lot of truth in what stoichiometrist just shared with you. I am not sure you understand the situation the way we do. We are swimming in these waters and it's overcrowded. I graduated in 2015 and the field deteriorated in an exponential manner while I was in school. It seemed like things were fine. I actually graduated with 6 job offers. Then saturation REALLY set in.

No one here is attacking you. If anything we are just being good Samaritans when steering you in a different direction. You won't be a provider. You won't be able to bill for your services. All your recommendations, whether in retail or hospital, are for free and employers are having a hard time justifying our wages. Then you see them pushing for "advances in the pharmacy technician profession", "tech-check-tech", "Medication history pharmacy technicians". What do you think all of that means? The pharmacists who were doing that job won't be doing it anymore.

No I completely understand what you guys are saying. I’m just saying I witnessed people have been able to get jobs up north of Cali. I already expended so much energy into it that’s what I am saying. Plus I don’t plan on doing retail even though people say that’s what people do when they graduate. I have a couple years working in large pharma companies called Baxter/Baxalta/shire and kite Pharma. So industrial is a path for me as well as clinical for hospital. Thanks for the input though!

 

[headortail]

OP, I'm the same as you, except I didn't want to come back to CA (parents own no property here, I preferred to move them somewhere cheaper where I can actually pay off a house in a reasonable amount of time faster). But, life steered me back. I went to school OOS (NYS), cheaper tuition, option of becoming NYS resident after 1 year, cheaper COL, highly ranked school, and they gave me some extra scholarship. After graduation, I matched with a residency in CA so I've been working here ever since.

IMO the only advantage of going to school in-state is networking and the opportunity to intern here (there's no guarantee you'll be picked, but if you do and they like you, they will probably want you back as a resident/potential pharmacist). CPJE was fine, it's not like there's anything in the CPJE that's not taught elsewhere (other than CA law, but as you'll find out law is a SMALL portion of the CPJE, it's not a law exam but rather law/clinical/every other miscellaneous thing under the sun). The only thing I used to study was RxPrep (the NAPLEX portion + CA portion), same with my friend who went to my same school; we passed CPJE without a problem.

If I were you, I'd pick an accredited school that's cheapest, work during school (preferably in a setting you want to be in later, but any job is better than no job), and apply to a LOT of programs when it comes to residency, if you still want to do one at that time. Maybe 15-20 or more, not kidding. Take a rotation off to stay home and apply so you don't have to fly back and forth. That way you have a good chance of matching SOMEWHERE in CA (oh and apply widely all over the state including less desirable locales please), then after residency you can start looking for jobs elsewhere.

To give you an idea, I did very well in school (summa, Rho Chi), and it took me >50 job applications and 5 interviews to get a job in SoCal after residency. This is with references personally telling me they spoke very highly of me. If that's the kind of thing you are willing to put up with - study your behind off in school to be top of your class, get involved in activities, get a job, then spend a c**p ton of money on applying/flying everywhere to interview, then you may be able to get a job in the field you want in CA...

 

[John T]

OP, I'm the same as you, except I didn't want to come back to CA (parents own no property here, I preferred to move them somewhere cheaper where I can actually pay off a house in a reasonable amount of time faster). But, life steered me back. I went to school OOS (NYS), cheaper tuition, option of becoming NYS resident after 1 year, cheaper COL, highly ranked school, and they gave me some extra scholarship. After graduation, I matched with a residency in CA so I've been working here ever since.

IMO the only advantage of going to school in-state is networking and the opportunity to intern here (there's no guarantee you'll be picked, but if you do and they like you, they will probably want you back as a resident/potential pharmacist). CPJE was fine, it's not like there's anything in the CPJE that's not taught elsewhere (other than CA law, but as you'll find out law is a SMALL portion of the CPJE, it's not a law exam but rather law/clinical/every other miscellaneous thing under the sun). The only thing I used to study was RxPrep (the NAPLEX portion + CA portion), same with my friend who went to my same school; we passed CPJE without a problem.

If I were you, I'd pick an accredited school that's cheapest, work during school (preferably in a setting you want to be in later, but any job is better than no job), and apply to a LOT of programs when it comes to residency, if you still want to do one at that time. Maybe 15-20 or more, not kidding. Take a rotation off to stay home and apply so you don't have to fly back and forth. That way you have a good chance of matching SOMEWHERE in CA (oh and apply widely all over the state including less desirable locales please), then after residency you can start looking for jobs elsewhere.

To give you an idea, I did very well in school (summa, Rho Chi), and it took me >50 job applications and 5 interviews to get a job in SoCal after residency. This is with references personally telling me they spoke very highly of me. If that's the kind of thing you are willing to put up with - study your behind off in school to be top of your class, get involved in activities, get a job, then spend a c**p ton of money on applying/flying everywhere to interview, then you may be able to get a job in the field you want in CA...

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I will definitely consider what you said. How hard was it to land the CA residency?

 

[spacecowgirl]

Do not go into pharmacy unless you can picture yourself in retail. Not saying that is where you'll end up but that's where the vast majority of pharmacists practice. And go to the cheapest accredited school you can. Compound interest is no joke.

 

[John T]

Do not go into pharmacy unless you can picture yourself in retail. Not saying that is where you'll end up but that's where the vast majority of pharmacists practice. And go to the cheapest accredited school you can. Compound interest is no joke.

I can picture myself working there but my goal is working in the hospital or industry. I understand the competition and will work harder than other to make myself a more competitive candidate when the time comes. Even if the school is out of state?

 

[headortail]

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I will definitely consider what you said. How hard was it to land the CA residency?

I didn't particularly want to come back so I only applied to 1 program in CA, of which I matched lol. Overall I applied to 15 programs, interviewed at 6 and ranked all 6.

 

[mfdoom]

As for jobs, I know a few people that got jobs right after graduating from California pharm schools. Starting 65 an hr. So I think it depends on your profile just like any other job when you apply. To stand out

65/hour sounds like a lot - and of course relatively it is, compared to other jobs out there - but be prepared for your net income to be way lower. After taxes, 401k contributions, health insurance, FSA, etc, I end up netting about 49% of my gross income. Loan repayment seems a lot more daunting when you're faced with this. My % might be more on the extreme end, since CA state taxes are high and I'm also throwing a lot of money into retirement, but still, it was a bummer. Especially fresh out of residency, when I was dreaming about making stacks on stacks after finishing...

 

[John T]

65/hour sounds like a lot - and of course relatively it is, compared to other jobs out there - but be prepared for your net income to be way lower. After taxes, 401k contributions, health insurance, FSA, etc, I end up netting about 49% of my gross income. Loan repayment seems a lot more daunting when you're faced with this. My % might be more on the extreme end, since CA state taxes are high and I'm also throwing a lot of money into retirement, but still, it was a bummer. Especially fresh out of residency, when I was dreaming about making stacks on stacks after finishing...

Oh I know that already. It’s going to be something we have to do until we die - taxes. It’s what we have to do haha

 

[PharmtoCS]

No I completely understand what you guys are saying. I’m just saying I witnessed people have been able to get jobs up north of Cali. I already expended so much energy into it that’s what I am saying. Plus I don’t plan on doing retail even though people say that’s what people do when they graduate. I have a couple years working in large pharma companies called Baxter/Baxalta/shire and kite Pharma. So industrial is a path for me as well as clinical for hospital. Thanks for the input though!

Yes, a few people that had to move to BFE Northern California just so they could have a job (most likely in retail). Even they will probably get displaced by the onslaught of students from the new California schools set to graduate this year.

 

[Wickett]

If 39k is a lot then my undergraduate college tuition was a lot lol! I’m from Cali and I think 39k is decent. What schools offer cheaper tuition then?

Also I can’t afford to wait another year to apply. Tbh, loans is a must for healthcare professionals. There’s no way out of it. Doctors, pharmacists etc

All I can say is going 200k plus in debt into an uncertain job market where at best your annual salary will be half your debt load in a high COL and high tax state like Cali isn't the best plan, financially. My debt load coming out was slightly higher than my annual pay and I can't imagine going over that and it making any sense for my future. The ROI just wouldn't be there. If you blindly jump into a huge debt load and think all debts are equal, you're in for a rude awakening. You have to weigh overall debt load and expected pay...the debt load and ROI for an MD student in Georgia isn't the same as a pharmer in Cali.

 

[John T]

Yes, a few people that had to move to BFE Northern California just so they could have a job (most likely in retail). Even they will probably get displaced by the onslaught of students from the new California schools set to graduate this year.

True and industrial pharma jobs. Yes and no. Survival of the fittest right?

 

[Momus]

I know a few retail part time floaters that struggle getting 40 hours, especially around winter months: January-March. Boss won't give change their status to full time because there are not enough hours around. Sometimes they only get 3 days a week sometimes they get 1 day/week. A new hire that finished residency but can't get a job in a hospital had to move to BFE retail just to get a job.

For the new grads, prepare to move to sh1t town and go part time forever in metro. Hiring manager gets stacks of resumes. It's tough out there.

 

[PharmtoCS]

True and industrial pharma jobs. Yes and no. Survival of the fittest right?

I know a few retail part time floaters that struggle getting 40 hours, especially around winter months: January-March. Boss won't give change their status to full time because there are not enough hours around. Sometimes they only get 3 days a week sometimes they get 1 day/week. A new hire that finished residency but can't get a job in a hospital had to move to BFE retail just to get a job.

For the new grads, prepare to move to sh1t town and go part time forever in metro. Hiring manager gets stacks of resumes. It's tough out there.

You hear that?

And pharma jobs are quite difficult to come by. They typically require fellowship which is just about as competitive as landing a residency.

But then again...every damn pre-pharm thinks they're the hardest working and most talented and that with their superior work ethic and intelligence that they won't be affected by saturation.

 

[BlackDiamond277]

Gotcha. I plan on practicing in Cali so yeah. I feel like out of state schools won’t gear me towards the Cali law test. Really? Why is it ridiculous? I talked to this guy that graduated last year from a Cali school (Touro) and got a job in Cali making 65 an hr.

It's ridiculous because the tuition at my school is 20k per year, so to pay 2x more for a (probably worse) education from a non-accredited school just does not make sense to me. Just because one person you talked to got a job making 65 an hour doesn't mean that you will. Plus, that may seem like a lot now, but when you're over 150k in debt w/ just tuition trying to keep up with the high COLA in SoCal, then it's really not.

To put it into perspective, the AACP reported that the average pharmacy student loan debt was ~157k. It included everything- living expenses and tuition. (39k x 4 years = 156,000) So you'd be taking out the total that most students spend on just tuition. That doesn't include rent, gas, books, food, etc... Not to mention that Cali has a much higher cost of living than most other places. AACP also reported that the average pharmacy salary is about $120,000, so let's say at $65/hour x hours/week x 52 weeks = ~ $135,000. So you'd be paying a significantly higher amount of money to make about $15,000 more per year in an area/state that will cost much more to live in and tax the crap out of you.

 

[Apotheker2015]

It's ridiculous because the tuition at my school is 20k per year, so to pay 2x more for a (probably worse) education from a non-accredited school just does not make sense to me. Just because one person you talked to got a job making 65 an hour doesn't mean that you will. Plus, that may seem like a lot now, but when you're over 150k in debt w/ just tuition trying to keep up with the high COLA in SoCal, then it's really not.

To put it into perspective, the AACP reported that the average pharmacy student loan debt was ~157k. It included everything- living expenses and tuition. (39k x 4 years = 156,000) So you'd be taking out the total that most students spend on just tuition. That doesn't include rent, gas, books, food, etc... Not to mention that Cali has a much higher cost of living than most other places. AACP also reported that the average pharmacy salary is about $120,000, so let's say at $65/hour x hours/week x 52 weeks = ~ $135,000. So you'd be paying a significantly higher amount of money to make about $15,000 more per year in an area/state that will cost much more to live in and tax the crap out of you.

65/hour in California = peanuts

 

[John T]

It's ridiculous because the tuition at my school is 20k per year, so to pay 2x more for a (probably worse) education from a non-accredited school just does not make sense to me. Just because one person you talked to got a job making 65 an hour doesn't mean that you will. Plus, that may seem like a lot now, but when you're over 150k in debt w/ just tuition trying to keep up with the high COLA in SoCal, then it's really not.

To put it into perspective, the AACP reported that the average pharmacy student loan debt was ~157k. It included everything- living expenses and tuition. (39k x 4 years = 156,000) So you'd be taking out the total that most students spend on just tuition. That doesn't include rent, gas, books, food, etc... Not to mention that Cali has a much higher cost of living than most other places. AACP also reported that the average pharmacy salary is about $120,000, so let's say at $65/hour x hours/week x 52 weeks = ~ $135,000. So you'd be paying a significantly higher amount of money to make about $15,000 more per year in an area/state that will cost much more to live in and tax the crap out of you.

When did you go to pharm school? and what state?

It was multiple sources that get paid at 65 per hour. I don't see that a lot at all especially living in California. It was just starting for someone that graduated from a pharm school in California. It's a lot hella better than what I am doing now in the biotech industry where opportunities are scarce. It's just a dream of mine since high school and don't plan on stopping to reach my goals.

 

[John T]

65/hour in California = peanuts

A whole lot better than 30 an hour.

 

[John T]

You hear that?

And pharma jobs are quite difficult to come by. They typically require fellowship which is just about as competitive as landing a residency.

But then again...every damn pre-pharm thinks they're the hardest working and most talented and that with their superior work ethic and intelligence that they won't be affected by saturation.

True but it's possible if you are willing to put up with a lot work and have connections. I have a good amount of connections within the biotech industry. Well you gotta have some sort of confidence in anything you do right? How else do people succeed to reach their goals in life. I like how this forum started from discussing about in-state or out of state schools to trying to persuade someone to stop reaching their goals in life lol.

 

[Wickett]

A whole lot better than 30 an hour.

Add paying off 250k in loans with interest climbing and 4 years out of the workforce and that 65 isn't that far off from that debt free, uninterrupted 30. And Cali is about to graduate a bunch of additional graduating classes, so you may get that 65/hr but good luck getting 40 hours a week reliably.

Do what ya want, and I'm not saying not to pursue pharmacy if it's really what you want, but paying 39k a year in tuition is just plain dumb when compared to the job prospects. Pharmacy can still be rewarding, but please find a cheaper school. Even if you go out of state, after your first year you can get the in state rate. There are plenty of state schools with tuition in the 15-20k per year range.

 

[John T]

Add paying off 250k in loans with interest climbing and 4 years out of the workforce and that 65 isn't that far off from that debt free, uninterrupted 30. And Cali is about to graduate a bunch of additional graduating classes, so you may get that 65/hr but good luck getting 40 hours a week reliably.

Do what ya want, and I'm not saying not to pursue pharmacy if it's really what you want, but paying 39k a year in tuition is just plain dumb when compared to the job prospects. Pharmacy can still be rewarding, but please find a cheaper school. Even if you go out of state, after your first year you can get the in state rate. There are plenty of state schools with tuition in the 15-20k per year range.

 

[Wickett]

True but it's possible if you are willing to put up with a lot work and have connections. I have a good amount of connections within the biotech industry. Well you gotta have some sort of confidence in anything you do right? How else do people succeed to reach their goals in life. I like how this forum started from discussing about in-state or out of state schools to trying to persuade someone to stop reaching their goals in life lol.

He is just being honest. You're deluded if you think you won't be affected by Cali's recent boom in school openings. And a lot of kids overestimate their ability to distinguish themselves in pharmacy school.....a third of every class will all have the same club officer positions, research and high GPA on their resume that you do, and still not get what they think they'll get on graduation. Once again, pursue pharmacy if you're sure it's your desired career, but don't go 200k+ in debt over it. It really makes no sense.

 

[John T]

Schools at 20k

Add paying off 250k in loans with interest climbing and 4 years out of the workforce and that 65 isn't that far off from that debt free, uninterrupted 30. And Cali is about to graduate a bunch of additional graduating classes, so you may get that 65/hr but good luck getting 40 hours a week reliably.

Do what ya want, and I'm not saying not to pursue pharmacy if it's really what you want, but paying 39k a year in tuition is just plain dumb when compared to the job prospects. Pharmacy can still be rewarding, but please find a cheaper school. Even if you go out of state, after your first year you can get the in state rate. There are plenty of state schools with tuition in the 15-20k per year range.

Pharm school in the 15-20k is scarce or unheard of now. Maybe 20 years ago. I understand what you are saying though.

 

[John T]

He is just being honest. You're deluded if you think you won't be affected by Cali's recent boom in school openings. And a lot of kids overestimate their ability to distinguish themselves in pharmacy school.....a third of every class will all have the same club officer positions, research and high GPA on their resume that you do, and still not get what they think they'll get on graduation. Once again, pursue pharmacy if you're sure it's your desired career, but don't go 200k+ in debt over it. It really makes no sense.

I never said I wouldn’t be affected. I’m just stating facts that I know people personally and on LinkedIn that currently have jobs after graduating from a California PharmD school. It’s harder now but not impossible. I don’t plan I’m just getting a pharm d either.

 

[Wickett]

Schools at 20k


Pharm school in the 15-20k is scarce or unheard of now. Maybe 20 years ago. I understand what you are saying though.

I graduated in 2016....state school. Tuition was 15-20k a year depending on yearly credit load and we were not the only school in my state with tuition at that rate. It's not rare....just go out of Cali for school and look around.

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/top-pharmacy-schools-keeping-degree-costs-down/

 

[John T]

I graduated in 2016....state school. Tuition was 15-20k a year depending on yearly credit load and we were not the only school in my state with tuition at that rate. It's not rare....just go out of Cali for school and look around.

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/top-pharmacy-schools-keeping-degree-costs-down/

Are from that state or did you move out of California? Do you practice there?