Quitting

[Farmgurl20]

OP you should not have quit your job before finding another one. If you knew you were quitting why not just stay and work at your pace?

I do have a question, it appears you worked somewhere else before CVS, what happened to that job?

Don't know the drugstore chains' COVID-19 leave policies, but Walmart's COVID-19 leave policy is very permissive. There are techs who have been out since March on self-quarantine leave and you can't get rid of them because they are job-protected.

If you were a Walmart pharmacist and don't care about money you should exploit the **** out of that while looking for a job elsewhere. Or if you are very unethical just fake failing the screening every 10-14 days and collect 100% LOA pay accordingly.

Is this possible for Walmart in California? Or is this country wide ?

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[Sine Cura]

It is nationwide. I'm pretty sure it'll be extended beyond January 31, 2021 at the current rate of spread

https://one.walmart.com/content/dam/us-wire-wm1/documents/company/community/emergency-disaster-preparedness/covid-19/Emergency_Leave_FAQ.pdf

(this is not behind a login)

 

[mentos]

Don't know the drugstore chains' COVID-19 leave policies, but Walmart's COVID-19 leave policy is very permissive. There are techs who have been out since March on self-quarantine leave and you can't get rid of them because they are job-protected.

If you were a Walmart pharmacist and don't care about money you should exploit the **** out of that while looking for a job elsewhere. Or if you are very unethical just fake failing the screening every 10-14 days and collect 100% LOA pay accordingly.

Yeah I would have just taken FMLA or something to have a break while looking for another job.

 

[M0df]

I can't say that I was kicking myself for quitting and I was out of work for more than 2 months. No regrets or second guessing. Pandemic happened and the only regret was being bored at home instead of enjoying myself more productively.

 

[Chrish]

People try to derive pleasure/ personal satisfaction from their jobs. It's good if you have found the job that you love. In fact, I truly envy you if that's the case because I have never felt about work that way. To me, work is just the mean to obtain financial freedom so that I can pursue other interests.

Think of it this way; majority of us get 3 days off a week. Yes, you have to put up with BS for four days, but it also leaves you with lot of downtime where you can completely forget about the job and do whatever the hell you feel like. I mean what other profession allows you to take these many days off and still have a reasonable salary? I know it probably won't last long but I have enjoyed the ride while it lasted.

Bottom-line, work doesn't have to be fun or satisfying; there are other ways to 'enjoy' life and seek fulfilment. It's all about perspective.

 

[M0df]

I completely agree with you. And because work is just there to get to financial freedom, I don't see it as a big deal to quit your job if necessary and delay your retirement by a few months.

I have left 1 job in x number of years. It is not the end of anything. OP will be just fine. He had good enough reasons for him. Congrats.

 

[mentos]

I can't say that I was kicking myself for quitting and I was out of work for more than 2 months. No regrets or second guessing. Pandemic happened and the only regret was being bored at home instead of enjoying myself more productively.

2 months is nothing. You are lucky you got another job so quickly. Some people end up unemployed for years.

 

[allantois]

I have a patient whose daughter graduated pharmacy school, never got a job and is teaching English in China

 

[Farmgurl20]

I have a patient whose daughter graduated pharmacy school, never got a job and is teaching English in China

Probably her parents paid for her school so she has no debt. Also, her parents probably wanted her to go to pharmacy school for prestige reasons.

 

[mentos]

I have a patient whose daughter graduated pharmacy school, never got a job and is teaching English in China

Would have been better off doing 2 years community college + 2 years state college for any bachelor's degree for like $20k.

 

[DH1987]

While I fantasize nearly every single day about quitting, I've decided to only quit under 1 of 3 conditions, assuming that I have 6-12 months of living expenses saved up for an emergency:

1. I've reached a net worth that satisfies the 4% rule (ETA: 8-15 years)
2. There is evidence that my health is declining due to my job
3. I've already found a different job.

Otherwise, I do not think the benefits of quitting outweigh the risks.

 

[HKSZYU]

Not a pharmacist, but congrats OP! I once worked a super toxic corporate job. Quitting it was one of the best days of my life. It felt like a physical weight being lifted, so I can understand your excitement.

 

[Rphquitter20]

While I fantasize nearly every single day about quitting, I've decided to only quit under 1 of 3 conditions, assuming that I have 6-12 months of living expenses saved up for an emergency:

1. I've reached a net worth that satisfies the 4% rule (ETA: 8-15 years)
2. There is evidence that my health is declining due to my job
3. I've already found a different job.

Otherwise, I do not think the risk outweighs the benefits.

For me, my mental health is starting to deteriorate or should say already has. Plus I am making easy mistakes at work already. My physical health is on the way.
2. Can't see myself working 10 years with this company or enviroment am currently in... I'll end up like dude in the movie "man on the ledge"
3. Good on emergency find.
4. Everyone is different and life situation is also different. But for me this is the time to make a drastic change or else my employer and the future of pharmacy field will make it for me.

 

[johnpharm01]

Of course no one enjoys being written up or getting fired. But OP has a choice; either work on his skills and step it up so he wouldn't have to go through it or just become numb and do things his way until something else comes up or he gets forced out (he wanted to quit anyways so this outcome should be acceptable).

People have to be realistic here.. Yes it sucks going to the job everyday when you dread it.. You live in certain kind of fear and uncertainty. However, we are in a career that's essentially dead. There are literally no jobs out there even if you are flexible with moving. People talk about how they survived, but let's not kid ourselves, Each year is progressively getting worse than the previous one. You might feel great about yourself for not having to put up with this anymore but when music will stop two months from now on if you still haven't found another job, you will be cursing at yourself.

I know it's not fair but this is the current reality of our profession.

You think "skill" will solve gross understaffing, no support from ownership and management, and combative customers? Try again. The pharmacy I work at fills just as many rxs as the big chains, yet I have triple the tech staff. Also don't get the combative customers and i do get pretty dang good support. Your minimization of the problems in retail pharmacy is simply the lies you tell yourself to keep from leaving.

 

[Chrish]

You think "skill" will solve gross understaffing, no support from ownership and management, and combative customers? Try again. The pharmacy I work at fills just as many rxs as the big chains, yet I have triple the tech staff. Also don't get the combative customers and i do get pretty dang good support. Your minimization of the problems in retail pharmacy is simply the lies you tell yourself to keep from leaving.

Oh trust me I have been doing this for long enough to know what it feels like working at an understaffed pharmacy or place where employees are incompetent.. But pharmacists aren’t the same either. Some are fast and efficient; some are slow and some are border-line OCD.. If you are struggling but your partners aren’t, you do need to re-evaluate your work-methods; what are you doing/ not doing that may be slowing you down? I have seen pharmacists who spend over 15-20minutes giving just one immunization when frankly it shouldn’t take that long. Your techs pull patient’s history. You let them fill out questionnaires. It takes less than a minute to review this paperwork and giving flu shot would take another 5 minutes or less. So, if you are one of the above pharmacists, you have some issues to fix.

If you have that much help at your place, great for you! But vast majority of us don’t have this luxury.

 

[johnpharm01]

Oh trust me I have been doing this for long enough to know what it feels like working at an understaffed pharmacy or place where employees are incompetent.. But pharmacists aren’t the same either. Some are fast and efficient; some are slow and some are border-line OCD.. If you are struggling but your partners aren’t, you do need to re-evaluate your work-methods; what are you doing/ not doing that may be slowing you down? I have seen pharmacists who spend over 15-20minutes giving just one immunization when frankly it shouldn’t take that long. Your techs pull patient’s history. You let them fill out questionnaires. It takes less than a minute to review this paperwork and giving flu shot would take another 5 minutes or less. So, if you are one of the above pharmacists, you have some issues to fix.

If you have that much help at your place, great for you! But vast majority of us don’t have this luxury.

Since when is being "fast" a quality of a good pharmacist? Any state I have worked in disciplines pharmacists for errors, malpractice suits are for errors not long wait times, and I can't say any organization rewards pharmacists for being "fast" Even the big chains don't use the word, I most often heard the term "strong". Your opinion reflects capitulation to corporate pressure instead standing behind a professional work ethic. If you can live with it when the s*** hits the fan. But i have been it a long time too. When the dea investigations, board discipline and lawsuits come to be, pharmacists of you ilk look to displace blame. Perhaps your lack insight into the long term effects of your practice.

 

[M0df]

Chrish... Why draw conclusions that someone sucks at their job. That they are too slow or don't have leadership skills etc. Did I miss something that OP said? He said he didn't like the environment and he would rather walk away for the sake of his health and patients' safety.

 

[Chrish]

Since when is being "fast" a quality of a good pharmacist? Any state I have worked in disciplines pharmacists for errors, malpractice suits are for errors not long wait times, and I can't say any organization rewards pharmacists for being "fast" Even the big chains don't use the word, I most often heard the term "strong". Your opinion reflects capitulation to corporate pressure instead standing behind a professional work ethic. If you can live with it when the s*** hits the fan. But i have been it a long time too. When the dea investigations, board discipline and lawsuits come to be, pharmacists of you ilk look to displace blame. Perhaps your lack insight into the long term effects of your practice.

You can be reasonably fast and still be accurate. I am not telling anyone to idealize pharmacists who keep hitting accept without reviewing the prescriptions. There is no excuse not to read the whole prescriptions or verify the visual content or resolve major drug interactions or not offer counseling on new scripts.

Bottom-line is if you are driving on a highway, you should follow the speed limit but at the same time, you can’t be driving that slow that would block the traffic.. You have to find the balance.

 

[Chrish]

Chrish... Why draw conclusions that someone sucks at their job. That they are too slow or don't have leadership skills etc. Did I miss something that OP said? He said he didn't like the environment and he would rather walk away for the sake of his health and patients' safety.

Most folks who quit the job in the manner OP did, do that because they are struggling at the job. But you are right. I probably shouldn’t assume that.

 

[footfairy]

Since when is being "fast" a quality of a good pharmacist? Any state I have worked in disciplines pharmacists for errors, malpractice suits are for errors not long wait times, and I can't say any organization rewards pharmacists for being "fast" Even the big chains don't use the word, I most often heard the term "strong". Your opinion reflects capitulation to corporate pressure instead standing behind a professional work ethic. If you can live with it when the s*** hits the fan. But i have been it a long time too. When the dea investigations, board discipline and lawsuits come to be, pharmacists of you ilk look to displace blame. Perhaps your lack insight into the long term effects of your practice.

In what professions are you not considered better than your peers if you can produce a larger quantity of the same quality work in a shorter amount of time?

A doctor that can't cover their patient load is going to face discipline, same with the nurse who gives meds off schedule. A mechanic that doesn't finish a job under the insurance contracted labor hours ends up with a lower hourly rate.

Chrish never said corporate is realistic or that Chrish just skips verification and throws pills at patients. This isn't a land of absolutes where the options are fill 1 script per hour while agonizing over fake DURs or fill 200 an hour while slamming the accept button with one hand while stapling bags with the others. It's all on a spectrum and if you're in the bottom fifth you should work towards reaching the median. Just like if you're bottom performing in mistakes or clinical interventions you should look to improve to at least the median.

 

[johnpharm01]

In what professions are you not considered better than your peers if you can produce a larger quantity of the same quality work in a shorter amount of time?

A doctor that can't cover their patient load is going to face discipline, same with the nurse who gives meds off schedule. A mechanic that doesn't finish a job under the insurance contracted labor hours ends up with a lower hourly rate.

Chrish never said corporate is realistic or that Chrish just skips verification and throws pills at patients. This isn't a land of absolutes where the options are fill 1 script per hour while agonizing over fake DURs or fill 200 an hour while slamming the accept button with one hand while stapling bags with the others. It's all on a spectrum and if you're in the bottom fifth you should work towards reaching the median. Just like if you're bottom performing in mistakes or clinical interventions you should look to improve to at

I was almost doubled over laughing when you suggest an md would be disciplined if the don't keep up with their patient load. You know how long people languish waiting to see their doctors? So you boil it down to keeping up with pack. All corporate has to do is push some harder and just like a lemming you are following along.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I was almost doubled over laughing when you suggest an md would be disciplined if the don't keep up with their patient load. You know how long people languish waiting to see their doctors? So you boil it down to keeping up with pack. All corporate has to do is push some harder and just like a lemming you are following along.

Doctors work for corporations now, and can be replaced with mid-levels. I have seen several very competent doctors fired (ie their contracts were not renewed), because they didn't meet the metrics the corporation wanted.

 

[johnpharm01]

Doctors work for corporations now, and can be replaced with mid-levels. I have seen several very competent doctors fired (ie their contracts were not renewed), because they didn't meet the metrics the corporation wanted.

Well be a slave to metrics. Come talk to me in 5 years when I retire and after that practice burns you out, but you can't afford to retire and you have compromised your professional standards. It is astounding that there are so many posters that just don't get it. You can go as fast as you want to try to please your employer, but it does little for job security. They won't give you a raise and what they will do is cut staff and raise expectations. When they need to cut employees hours, they will no matter what you did on the past. Good luck it's a downward spiral. Op was right there is no future at CVS. Try and tell me these things aren't true.

 

[Sine Cura]

FWIW I've dealt with multiple BOP complaints this era for untimeliness or cutting people off after closing hours. There's a catchall clause for "obstructing a patient from obtaining a prescription that was legally prescribed" (in California)

The bloodsucking moocher (known as a "customer") is always right. The era of degenerate COVIDiots

 

[BidingMyTime]

Well be a slave to metrics. Come talk to me in 5 years when I retire and after that practice burns you out, but you can't afford to retire and you have compromised your professional standards. It is astounding that there are so many posters that just don't get it. You can go as fast as you want to try to please your employer, but it does little for job security. They won't give you a raise and what they will do is cut staff and raise expectations. When they need to cut employees hours, they will no matter what you did on the past. Good luck it's a downward spiral. Op was right there is no future at CVS. Try and tell me these things aren't true.

Um, why are you taking issue with me? No where did I say metrics were a good thing, or people should be a slave to them. I stated the fact, that doctors will lose their jobs if they don't comply with metrics. That doesn't mean I agree with it, it just means that is the current reality.

 

[johnpharm01]

FWIW I've dealt with multiple BOP complaints this era for untimeliness or cutting people off after closing hours. There's a catchall clause for "obstructing a patient from obtaining a prescription that was legally prescribed" (in California)

The bloodsucking moocher (known as a "customer") is always right. The era of degenerate COVIDiots

There's a big difference between a successful complaint and an unsuccessful complaint. All complaints get investigated, not all rphs get disciplined. When you get complaints because your pharmacy is closed and folks can't get their meds after they drop prescriptions and the hours are clearly posted, it speaks volumes about your workplace.

 

[lord999]

FWIW I've dealt with multiple BOP complaints this era for untimeliness or cutting people off after closing hours. There's a catchall clause for "obstructing a patient from obtaining a prescription that was legally prescribed" (in California)

The bloodsucking moocher (known as a "customer") is always right. The era of degenerate COVIDiots

Have any of those after-hours succeeded? I thought those were dismissed?

 

[footfairy]

Um, why are you taking issue with me? No where did I say metrics were a good thing, or people should be a slave to them. I stated the fact, that doctors will lose their jobs if they don't comply with metrics. That doesn't mean I agree with it, it just means that is the current reality.

I guess he thinks I made up all of those examples? I think he might still be thinking of the healthcare environment of the early part of his career where RPH saturation and mid-level creep/saturation weren't things?

I thought you and I were both very clear to say "If all the targets that measure your worth as an employee are terrible, don't expect to be employed long."

I didn't think that was a groundbreaking or debatable statement.

 

[johnpharm01]

Um, why are you taking issue with me? No where did I say metrics were a good thing, or people should be a slave to them. I stated the fact, that doctors will lose their jobs if they don't comply with metrics. That doesn't mean I agree with it, it just means that is the current reality.

I guess we have two divergent views of reality.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Never thought I would say this, but I'm actually excited to be quitting a job. Usually, most people would be sad or suffer through the hell that is retail pharmacy until they're able to find a better job. Nope, not me. I've nothing lined up, but if I've to go another month with this company I might end-up on benzos. Never thought I would reach this point in my pharmacy career but dang am excited to be quitting..... did I mention that I'm elated to be quitting.

To each his own but not sure quitting cold turkey after a few months was a good idea. Yes, CVS is evil. Yes, CVS is one of the main reasons why our profession is the way it is. But it still is one of the largest companies in the world which may or may not impact your professional future. You always want to end employment in good terms especially when you did nothing wrong. This may be viewed as a red flag on your resume to some employers when you apply for other jobs. Also, you never want to be excited to be quitting a professional job. I would be sad for number of obvious reasons.

 

[Sine Cura]

There's a big difference between a successful complaint and an unsuccessful complaint. All complaints get investigated, not all rphs get disciplined. When you get complaints because your pharmacy is closed and folks can't get their meds after they drop prescriptions and the hours are clearly posted, it speaks volumes about your workplace.

Yes, it's in an area with a lot of degenerates (didnt i mention sex offenders elsewhere)

Have any of those after-hours succeeded? I thought those were dismissed?

I've gone 5 years without trash whining until now. You still have to waste time showing these customers are *****s

 

[DH1987]

Regarding the speed vs accuracy debate: yes, speed and efficiency IS very important. If you're too slow, you are delaying patient care. Being a pharmacist is a balancing act. Someone said earlier that pharmacists aren't risk takers, but I'd argue that pharmacists do indeed take risks every day, and good ones know what risks to take and what risks to avoid. You need to know what's worth slowing down for and what isn't.

 

[johnpharm01]

Regarding the speed vs accuracy debate: yes, speed and efficiency IS very important. If you're too slow, you are delaying patient care. Being a pharmacist is a balancing act. Someone said earlier that pharmacists aren't risk takers, but I'd argue that pharmacists do indeed take risks every day, and good ones know what risks to take and what risks to avoid. You need to know what's worth slowing down for and what isn't.

Now corporate goals have clinical consequences? How absurd. If you hold onto an rx for days, weeks only because the pharmacy operates poorly that could qualify as delaying care, but I am sorry characterizing a wait time greater than 15 minutes as delaying care is simply ludicrous.

 

[Deja]

Now corporate goals have clinical consequences? How absurd. If you hold onto an rx for days, weeks only because the pharmacy operates poorly that could qualify as delaying care, but I am sorry characterizing a wait time greater than 15 minutes as delaying care is simply ludicrous.

i'm not really sure what you are arguing about anymore lol no one here is saying that the metrics are good or boasting about how fast we can verify and everyone else sucks... but this is the current situation, we get what we get in terms of tech and pharmacist hours.... yes you are lucky because it seems like you work at an independent with double the help but not eveyone is that lucky

 

[VA77]

Just wait until the PBMs clawback your reimbursement based on waiting times.

 

[DH1987]

Now corporate goals have clinical consequences? How absurd. If you hold onto an rx for days, weeks only because the pharmacy operates poorly that could qualify as delaying care, but I am sorry characterizing a wait time greater than 15 minutes as delaying care is simply ludicrous.

Over the course of hundreds/thousands of Rx's, a few minutes here and there can easily add up to someone's script being delayed for hours or even days.

 

[johnpharm01]

i'm not really sure what you are arguing about anymore lol no one here is saying that the metrics are good or boasting about how fast we can verify and everyone else sucks... but this is the current situation, we get what we get in terms of tech and pharmacist hours.... yes you are lucky because it seems like you work at an independent with double the help but not eveyone is that lucky

Posters are making assertions that validate corporate goals. It's one thing to tell those things to the district manager to bs them, it's another to buy into them which seems to be the case here by multiple posters. It's Stockholm syndrome. If I was a new grad like op, I would only take a job at CVS if it was my only offer and then only with the intent of leaving at my next offer. Then again I wouldn't have gone to pharmacy school in the last decade. Then when working there I would try to be liked and put safety first. If I couldn't find a new job within a reasonable time frame I would move on. I would rather suffer the consequences of bad previous decisions then possibly make folks suffer from an error.

 

[johnpharm01]

Over the course of hundreds/thousands of Rx's, a few minutes here and there can easily add up to someone's script being delayed for hours or even days.

Oh ok.

 

[johnpharm01]

Just wait until the PBMs clawback your reimbursement based on waiting times.

Your assertion is based on multiple assumptions none of which hold true.

 

[VA77]

Your assertion is based on multiple assumptions none of which

Your assertion is based on multiple assumptions none of which hold true.

No assumptions here. Already in discussion for ER wait times tied to Medicare reimbursements. Pharmacies are next.

 

[footfairy]

Posters are making assertions that validate corporate goals. It's one thing to tell those things to the district manager to bs them, it's another to buy into them which seems to be the case here by multiple posters. It's Stockholm syndrome. If I was a new grad like op, I would only take a job at CVS if it was my only offer and then only with the intent of leaving at my next offer. Then again I wouldn't have gone to pharmacy school in the last decade. Then when working there I would try to be liked and put safety first. If I couldn't find a new job within a reasonable time frame I would move on. I would rather suffer the consequences of bad previous decisions then possibly make folks suffer from an error.

Okay let's go with your ideas. If all metrics are completely worthless and finishing your tasks in a timely manner isn't important to you either, how would you, as the person running a pharmacy, qualify the work your employee does? What measuring stick would you grade your employees against in order to separate the wheat from the chaff?

I'm seeing a lot of "everyone is wrong about everything" but I'm not seeing you provide us with your valuable insight into the actually effective ways to evaluate employees.

 

[johnpharm01]

No assumptions here. Already in discussion for ER wait times tied to Medicare reimbursements. Pharmacies are next.

Oh ok, if you can see the future could I please have a couple of winning Powerball numbers for next Saturday's drawing?

 

[johnpharm01]

Okay let's go with your ideas. If all metrics are completely worthless and finishing your tasks in a timely manner isn't important to you either, how would you, as the person running a pharmacy, qualify the work your employee does? What measuring stick would you grade your employees against in order to separate the wheat from the chaff?

I'm seeing a lot of "everyone is wrong about everything" but I'm not seeing you provide us with your valuable insight into the actually effective ways to evaluate employees.

Your generalizations are a distortion,, but let's it put it this way. I believe in taking the time a tasks takes to be completed. Not more, nor less. If this is days due to a clarification or pa so be it or waiting 20 minutes and not 15 for a script. Let's be honest here getting rxs done at the major chains chains is not about getting your work done in a timely fashion. Save the lies for others.

 

[footfairy]

Your generalizations are a distortion,, but let's it put it this way. I believe in taking the time a tasks takes to be completed. Not more, nor less. If this is days due to a clarification or pa so be it or waiting 20 minutes and not 15 for a script. Let's be honest here getting rxs done at the major chains chains is not about getting your work done in a timely fashion. Save the lies for others.

You should consider applying to be a coach for the 2024 presidential debates. Absolute masterclass performance in never answering the question or providing a single useful piece of information.

You've had multiple people provide you with information that refutes your statement and all you can do is make personal attacks. Then, I provide you the opportunity to "show us the way" and this is what you come up with? You should get back to your bridge, some children might get across without paying the toll.

 

[johnpharm01]

You should consider applying to be a coach for the 2024 presidential debates. Absolute masterclass performance in never answering the question or providing a single useful piece of information.

You've had multiple people provide you with information that refutes your statement and all you can do is make personal attacks. Then, I provide you the opportunity to "show us the way" and this is what you come up with? You should get back to your bridge, some children might get across without paying the toll.

Peace be unto you. Good luck with your practice of pharmacy. Congrats OP you made the right decision.

 

[M0df]

I like some measurements of performance. It seems actually better than where this is headed. Now your reviews will be based on behavior and how they influence the health of your patients. In other words, how much your DM and PIC like you.

As far as specific metrics, CVS used to measure how quickly you pick up the phone. Now, you can't get anyone on the phone. Can they bring that back? For all NateRobinsons and Mr. Corporate Pharmacist. What happened to those guys.

 

[PharmDWithaPorscheGT3RS]

Don’t you know that next stimulus check deal gonna get approved any time now

Can't wait for that stimulus check so I can wrap my car in a new color.

 

[lord999]

Yes, it's in an area with a lot of degenerates (didnt i mention sex offenders elsewhere)

I've gone 5 years without trash whining until now. You still have to waste time showing these customers are *****s

I do get it. Having to respond to stupid complaints is a thankless headache.

 

[Sine Cura]

As predicted Walmart extended its COVID leave policy until July 5, 2021 (weird cutoff)

So you could collect your annual bonus in March and then go on level 1 leave immediately to find another job (if you have PTO left) or fake level 2

 

[iamapharmacist]

Just wait until the PBMs clawback your reimbursement based on waiting times.

LOL don't give them ideas! I know these a$$holes lurk on these forums. Just in case you're reading this, PBMs snakes, you are the scum of this earth. You're on the same level of evilness with rapists and politicians. Yup, I said it. Politicians are rapists lol.