Radiation Oncology through Osteopathic Route

[breakdancerj]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi All,
As I am preparing to submit all of my applications, I have been doing a lot of research regarding which DO schools foster the greatest chance to be accepted into a Radiation Oncology residency program. I know a lot of people will respond to this by saying that it doesn't matter where you go to school and that you can make whatever you want to have happen as an individual, but I don't really buy it. As I look at match lists over the years, it becomes obvious that there are certain medical schools that foster an environment, be it research, clinical exposure, student organizations, etc to prepare students to become a more attractive applicant for such residency programs. I have found that about 3-4% of Rad Onc residents come from DO schools. Anyone know any Osteopathic schools that seem to have done better than others at placing them? I will be applying to 3 DO schools in addition to UNT and want to make the best choice possible. From what I have found, AZCOM and UNE are the only DO schools that I have been able to find which have placed a Rad Onc in the past few years (and I have not really been able to verify the UNE resident).

 

[FrkyBgStok]

wrong forum. Other than that, there is no radiation oncology for osteopaths.

 

[Brachyury]

Do a search in RadOnce forum; I'm sure you'll find more answers.

Between 2007 and 2011, 0 DOs match into a PGY-1 radonc postion (however, unlike other specialties, Radonc only has a few PGY-1 position, so I wouldn't read too much into this--see pages 29, http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf).

In the first post of this discussion (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813819), there is an excel file of the number of DO students who matched to an ACGME (allopathic) residency for a particular year. In this case, 0 DOs match to PGY-1 radonc positions, but 5 did match to PGY-2 spots

You need to realize a few things:

1. Radonc is a small field: if your school's hospital has a radonc residency program or department, chances are the attendings know many program directors. If you are at a school that does not have its own hospital and you are primarily doing your rotations at community hospitals, you'll want to do away rotations at an academic hospital so you can get a quality LOR.

2. Research is key for radonc: in the 2010 program director survey, 79% of program directors responded that research was a key factor in interviewing applicants (if you read the survey, you'll notice that radonc places more importance on research than any other specialty--http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2010v3.pdf). The reality is that osteopathic schools do not care about research. UNT and UMDNJ do have research, but compared to even the least research heavy allopathic schools, their research is quite limited. Besides, if you want to do clinical research, particualrly in radonc, it's difficult to do it when your med school does not have its own radonc department, let alone its own hospital.

3. Radonc is competitive: when there are more allopathic applicants than spots, it's going to be difficult, but not impossible, to land a residency spot.

 

[DrBowtie]

And why limit yourself to only applying to osteopathic med schools?

 

[breakdancerj]

And why limit yourself to only applying to osteopathic med schools?

I am not limiting myself to only osteopathic med schools. I'll probably apply to about 15 allopathic. However, I still think it is wise to apply broadly and am simply interested in DO schools that might be better equipped to prepare an individual for Rad Onc. Thanks to those who have given constructive feedback.

 

[danzman]

I am not limiting myself to only osteopathic med schools. I'll probably apply to about 15 allopathic. However, I still think it is wise to apply broadly and am simply interested in DO schools that might be better equipped to prepare an individual for Rad Onc. Thanks to those who have given constructive feedback.

Super tough to decide this early that this is what you want to go into, as nearly eveyrone changes their minds. However, this is the only field that I would honestly say that a DO has nearly zero chance of doing, and thus could talk someone out of a DO program.

 

[breakdancerj]

Super tough to decide this early that this is what you want to go into, as nearly eveyrone changes their minds. However, this is the only field that I would honestly say that a DO has nearly zero chance of doing, and thus could talk someone out of a DO program.

Thanks. I am open to the fact that my mind will change which is why I never tell anyone that I absolutely know what I want to do. However, it would stink to cut the option out that I currently like best before even attending medical school. Thanks for your insight. I thought that I saw a Rad Onc match on AZCOM's match list last year, and heard rumor of someone from UNE. However, those are all I have been able to find which does seem that DO's don't have much of a shot at Rad Onc residencies compared to MD's.

 

[danzman]

Thanks. I am open to the fact that my mind will change which is why I never tell anyone that I absolutely know what I want to do. However, it would stink to cut the option out that I currently like best before even attending medical school. Thanks for your insight. I thought that I saw a Rad Onc match on AZCOM's match list last year, and heard rumor of someone from UNE. However, those are all I have been able to find which does seem that DO's don't have much of a shot at Rad Onc residencies compared to MD's.

Sure, these are all PGY2 spots. Last year there were no DO PGY1s and 5 PGY2s in Radonc. In all reality 5 is better than DOs fared in Ortho/neurosurg/plastics/ENT, but the difference is that there a lot of ortho spots in the DO world, and a handful of ENT/Neurosurg/plastics spots, while there are no Radonc programs just for DOs. Although my colleagues will give me hell for it, I would tell any applicant to take anyUS MD spot over a DO spot unless there was a specific reason to go to that school(family close by would be a good one etc'). The location of most of the competitive DO residencies are IMHO just terrible. After going through the process, I think getting a spot is the most important thing, but second to that is getting a US MD spot. In other words, I would not put off a year in hopes of getting an MD spot if I had DO one.

 

[FuturePharm21]

to be honest you should try your best at MD schools because radonc is not even offered for osteopathic residencies and so it's going to be EXTREMELY HARD if you go the DO route but if thats all you get, then take it because DO's can be successful and who wants to take MCAT again?

 

[ride85]

I wanted to chim in here with a bit of research I've done on the topic. As a 'likely' student of a D.O. class of 2016, I've done a significant amount of research into the possibility of matching Rad Onc out of an osteopathic program. I've spoken to two osteopathic radiation ocologists about this, as well at the attendings in the rad onc department I work in, and come to these conclusions:

1) Being D.O. will not prevent you from matching to a rad onc residency at most programs. There are definitely residencies that are not going to consider you because they are elitist or ignorant of what a D.O. is. These are the MD Andersons, Yales, Michigans, MSKs and Harvards. These are excellent programs and I mean them no disrespect, but the folks I've talked to have said that they flat out aren't interested in D.O.'s for whatever reason.
2) You must start Rad Onc research early and be productive. Many med students don't realize RT exists until their third year (I'm told) and don't start getting their resume together for that field until then. If you start getting RT pubs out soon and build relationships with places that are likely to consider D.O. applicants, you will immensely strengthen your match application.
3) Osteopathic med students generally aren't interested in Rad Onc which is why so few apply and this is part of the reason you don't have many in the field.

As far as specific schools and programs go, I will share what I know. Both DO Rad Oncs I spoke to went to UNE, though I don't think there is a huge correlation here. One did residency at U of Washington where I'm told there is currently another DO resident, and the other is in the Wayne State program. Both were extremely nice and eager to share their experiences. One is an attending working at a Dana Farber Cancer affiliate and he is a well respected physician and researcher whose research profile is not significantly held back by his degree.

It's impossible to know if I'll still be interested in this very specific field 3-4 years from now when I'm selecting a residency, but I remain completely confident that I will match to a Rad Onc program somewhere if I do as well on my USMLE boards as the other applicants and continue to maintain my work and connections in this field. Feel free to message me if you have questions about this topic.

 

[GoldenPearl]

*Bump*

I would like if people's opinions and perspectives about DOs entering Rad Onc still stand today.

 

[IslandStyle808]

*Bump*

I would like if people's opinions and perspectives about DOs entering Rad Onc still stand today.

It is still a field is incredibly hard to get into whether MD or DO. However, it is still even more so hard for DOs to match into this field. Based on the NRMP PD survey of 2014, only around 45% of programs interview and rank DOs (this number was higher before on the last PD survey around the 60s). However, this seem to be changing though for DOs matching each year.

A previous poster stated that around 5 matched into rad onc from 2007-2011. From 2012-2016, the numbers have risen to 11 matching (12 if you include the physician R match in 2016). It is a substantial increase, but not enough to say the DO bias is lifting just yet. The 2016 match had 5 DOs matching, which is the most in all years.

What is probably causing this change is most likely due to the caliber of students entering DO schools currently. These are people who probably could have gotten into MD schools, but instead went to a DO school (for various reasons). Then there is also the fact that these people also probably are finding various avenues for Rad Onc research, which has helped them tremendously in matching.

This is one of those fields where I don't believe a DO student as to be far more stellar than an MD student to match. In the charting outcomes of 2014, there was at least one DO that matched with a USMLE score of 230-240 (probably more than this if you overlay the DOs on the USMLE chart of independent applicants). So even though the average is a 240, you don't need to have a 250 to have an equal chance against an MD student. The reason why MD students fare better is two things. The first is that programs use DO filters to only look at US MD applicants, so this cuts down the amount of programs looking at DOs. The second is that some MD schools have their own rad onc departments where student can do rad onc research. This is what gives DOs the hardest time.

If you want to know if you have a realistic shot at rad onc, the answer is no. If you want to know you have a possible shot, then the answer is "depends on your board scores, research, and clinical rotations" then yes its possible.

 

[ljw5757]

It is still a field is incredibly hard to get into whether MD or DO. However, it is still even more so hard for DOs to match into this field. Based on the NRMP PD survey of 2014, only around 45% of programs interview and rank DOs (this number was higher before on the last PD survey around the 60s). However, this seem to be changing though for DOs matching each year.

A previous poster stated that around 5 matched into rad onc from 2007-2011. From 2012-2016, the numbers have risen to 11 matching (12 if you include the physician R match in 2016). It is a substantial increase, but not enough to say the DO bias is lifting just yet. The 2016 match had 5 DOs matching, which is the most in all years.

What is probably causing this change is most likely due to the caliber of students entering DO schools currently. These are people who probably could have gotten into MD schools, but instead went to a DO school (for various reasons). Then there is also the fact that these people also probably are finding various avenues for Rad Onc research, which has helped them tremendously in matching.

This is one of those fields where I don't believe a DO student as to be far more stellar than an MD student to match. In the charting outcomes of 2014, there was at least one DO that matched with a USMLE score of 230-240 (probably more than this if you overlay the DOs on the USMLE chart of independent applicants). So even though the average is a 240, you don't need to have a 250 to have an equal chance against an MD student. The reason why MD students fare better is two things. The first is that programs use DO filters to only look at US MD applicants, so this cuts down the amount of programs looking at DOs. The second is that some MD schools have their own rad onc departments where student can do rad onc research. This is what gives DOs the hardest time.

If you want to know if you have a realistic shot at rad onc, the answer is no. If you want to know you have a possible shot, then the answer is "depends on your board scores, research, and clinical rotations" then yes its possible.

I will be starting at an osteopathic medical school in roughly one month, and radiation oncology is one of the specialties I am most interested in (accompanied by Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine followed by Medical Oncology Fellowship). While I am well aware of the large propensity of opportunities available to D.O.s in my other two top choice specialties, it seems that radiation oncology residency spots are often nearly exclusively granted to M.D.s based primarily on the fact that they have ample opportunities for research within their respective school's department of radiation oncology. Do you have any advice on how a student without a substantial RadOnc research facility at their home institution may go about getting the necessary research experience? I have heard of avenues like independent research or working a summer at the NIH or HHMI, but was hoping to hear from someone who has experience with this directly. Thank you in advance!

 

[IslandStyle808]

I will be starting at an osteopathic medical school in roughly one month, and radiation oncology is one of the specialties I am most interested in (accompanied by Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine followed by Medical Oncology Fellowship). While I am well aware of the large propensity of opportunities available to D.O.s in my other two top choice specialties, it seems that radiation oncology residency spots are often nearly exclusively granted to M.D.s based primarily on the fact that they have ample opportunities for research within their respective school's department of radiation oncology. Do you have any advice on how a student without a substantial RadOnc research facility at their home institution may go about getting the necessary research experience? I have heard of avenues like independent research or working a summer at the NIH or HHMI, but was hoping to hear from someone who has experience with this directly. Thank you in advance!

Unfortunately I don't have too much experience with the field. I still believe the statement I had made one year back. I am finding out more and more that DO students are ill advised about hyper competitive fields.

Coming from a DO school, I would advise using any contact you can get. If you come from an undergrad institution that has a residency in Radiation Oncology, try to see you can get in touch with any doctor who has connections with the program. Try to also look at the radiation oncology society site and see if their are summer opportunities to do research. You can try to contact a nearby MD school as well (next your DO school) and try to see if they are willing to take you in for research. Your school could also have a radiation oncologist as a preceptor and so try to talk with them to see if they know researchers looking for students to help with research. I will be the first to admit it can be very hard to find an research in general outside your institution, but it can be done. If none of these avenues don't work, try to see if you can do oncology research.

Main thing is to get on this early. You don't have to start your research early per say (since you will be in the transition period adjusting to medical school), but I suggest trying to find people early. Because medical school is a giant time sink and you need to budget your time in searching slowly for research opportunities.

I hope this helps somewhat, good luck to you.

 

[trimethylpurine]

Can anyone comment on the difficulty for DOs going into heme/onc vs rad onc?