Radiology Faculty--Answering Questions/"AMA"

[Donmarza]

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Hi @RadiologyPD

Your really input has been very useful to read thanks. Im an IMG from the UK (lived some time in the US) and I saw you wrote that your program doesnt tend to interview IMGS. was just wondering if you might be able to give me a vague idea of places that tend to be IMG friendly for radiology and whether you think its worth me applying? My stats are below:

UK Grad 2018 - Top 100 global school
Been working in the UK as a doctor since then
Currently a first year radiology resident in UK at a top 10 global university

Top 10% in clinical years
Biochem undergrad where I was top of class with 4 prizes

Step 1: 257
Step 2CK: 260
Step 2CS: Pass first time

National anatomy prize
One published radiology/IM abstract- first author
Will likely have one accepted rads/IM paper by the end of summer as second author
One poster presentation-radiology

Unfortunately no USCE but im getting LORs from doctors at a well-known UK med school/hospital

 

[redalert]

Just curious, sounds like you are at a great place already. Why the move?

Hi @RadiologyPD

Your really input has been very useful to read thanks. Im an IMG from the UK (lived some time in the US) and I saw you wrote that your program doesnt tend to interview IMGS. was just wondering if you might be able to give me a vague idea of places that tend to be IMG friendly for radiology and whether you think its worth me applying? My stats are below:

UK Grad 2018 - Top 100 global school
Been working in the UK as a doctor since then
Currently a first year radiology resident in UK at a top 10 global university

Top 10% in clinical years
Biochem undergrad where I was top of class with 4 prizes

Step 1: 257
Step 2CK: 260
Step 2CS: Pass first time

National anatomy prize
One published radiology/IM abstract- first author
Will likely have one accepted rads/IM paper by the end of summer as second author
One poster presentation-radiology

Unfortunately no USCE but im getting LORs from doctors at a well-known UK med school/hospital

 

[Donmarza]

Just curious, sounds like you are at a great place already. Why the move?

Various family and career reasons. My dad and his extended family live out in the US
I've not lived in the UK my whole life and i find it pretty miserable. Terrible weather, not a huge fan of the culture.
And then career wise the deal for doctors here keeps getting worse. There is a lot of arrogance about how great the system here is but the reality on the ground is completely different.
Pay hasnt been increased in nearly 20 years and was low to begin with.
The only places affordable for anyone to live are increasingly depressing. Im still single but this is not a place I could ever see myself raising a family

I figure going to the US the more decentralized system will allow me to work out a niche that i like, whilst letting me earn enough money to keep a place somewhere on continental Europe when i want to head back for vacation

 

[RadiologyPD]

Hi @RadiologyPD

Your really input has been very useful to read thanks. Im an IMG from the UK (lived some time in the US) and I saw you wrote that your program doesnt tend to interview IMGS. was just wondering if you might be able to give me a vague idea of places that tend to be IMG friendly for radiology and whether you think its worth me applying? My stats are below:

UK Grad 2018 - Top 100 global school
Been working in the UK as a doctor since then
Currently a first year radiology resident in UK at a top 10 global university

Top 10% in clinical years
Biochem undergrad where I was top of class with 4 prizes

Step 1: 257
Step 2CK: 260
Step 2CS: Pass first time

National anatomy prize
One published radiology/IM abstract- first author
Will likely have one accepted rads/IM paper by the end of summer as second author
One poster presentation-radiology

Unfortunately no USCE but im getting LORs from doctors at a well-known UK med school/hospital

A lot depends on whether or not you need visa support.

In this current environment, there are lots of risks to programs for matching residents who need visa support. If you already have a way to be in the US without visa support, you would be highly competitive for many programs, including ours.

Part of the issue is that you need to secure an internship. If you need visa support, I can imagine (but do not know from personal experience) that stand alone internships might be disinclined to take the hassle of getting you visa support to start an internship in the short 3.5 months from match outcome to start of internship. So this might mean you will have to target categorical spots, who might be willing to go to the effort to get you visa support. In the current climate, immigration support is tricky.

 

[Donmarza]

A lot depends on whether or not you need visa support.

In this current environment, there are lots of risks to programs for matching residents who need visa support. If you already have a way to be in the US without visa support, you would be highly competitive for many programs, including ours.

Part of the issue is that you need to secure an internship. If you need visa support, I can imagine (but do not know from personal experience) that stand alone internships might be disinclined to take the hassle of getting you visa support to start an internship in the short 3.5 months from match outcome to start of internship. So this might mean you will have to target categorical spots, who might be willing to go to the effort to get you visa support. In the current climate, immigration support is tricky.

Perfect thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I do need a visa. I can get a green card through my father but would take about 5 years. I guess I will just apply and see what happens. I have some connections in the US that might be able to get me an intern year a bit easier. But I will apply to all the categorical posts that tend to take IMGs.

Also wonder whether due to the new ecfmg certification rules for people who haven't passed step 2 cs if there will actually be fewer eligible imgs this year

 

[emdee_inside]

Hello @RadiologyPD and thank you so much for doing this. I had posted in the Radiology forum, FAQ: What are my chances? but thought you might see it better here and was really hoping for some direction. Here is the post:

Posting here for advice. I did not match into a surgical subspecialty (March 2020). After much introspection and discussions, I plan to apply DR (should have applied the first time) for Match 2021. I'm currently delaying graduation to 2021 so I can stay a student and apply as a US Senior (and take 2 DR rotations). I am also really interested in everyone's thoughts about including not matching in my personal statement. Of course, I am happy to explain it in an interview.

Should I use my personal statement as an opportunity to explain why I think I didn't match / what I've learned from the experience? Or should I use it to talk about why I'm interested in DR and why this is a MUCH better fit for my personality and intellectual preferences? There is also an area on ERAS that asks "Was your medical education/training extended or interrupted?" and it's a 534-character text box. Thoughts?

Stats
- Went on 15 interviews last cycle. Made contact with 6 program directors asking for feedback after not matching. All gave positive feedback regarding my interview skills and application. I repeatedly heard "there is nothing that sticks out to me from your file to explain this".
- Medical School: Top 40 NIH-funded.
- Step 1: 250+
- Step 2 CK: 250+
- Step 2 CS: PASS
- Class Rank: Middle of the pack (60-70%ile)
- Letters: 1 DR (strong) + 1 IR (strong) + 1 Outpatient (Family Medicine) + 1 Research (IR)
- 4th year grades: Honors in home surgical subI, away surgical subI, DR, family medicine
- 3rd year grades: Honors in Surgery, Internal Medicine
- Preclinical grades: nothing special
- AOA: No
- Pubs/Posters/Abs TOTAL: 23
- Pubmed Published Journal Articles: 5 (4 surgical specialty + 1 IR)
- Medical School Honors/Awards: 6
- Work Experiences: 4
- Volunteer Experiences: 7
- Research Experiences: 6

Thanks everyone!

 

[CallMeBigJeff]

Hi @RadiologyPD thank you for your innumerable pearls! I've been following this thread since I became interested in Radiology and this thread has been super insightful. I had a question for you pertaining to geography. I am applying DR with fairly competitive stats (260 step 1, AOA, mostly Honors with some high pass, some first author publications, US MD). My school is in the southeast but I am trying to end up at a specific program out west in a state I have no ties to. I was wondering if you thought it would be a good idea to reach out after applications/MSPEs are released this year, to express my interest, or if I should rely on my stats alone to get me an interview. Thank you for taking the time to read this!

 

[RadiologyPD]

Posting here for advice. I did not match into a surgical subspecialty (March 2020). After much introspection and discussions, I plan to apply DR (should have applied the first time) for Match 2021. I'm currently delaying graduation to 2021 so I can stay a student and apply as a US Senior (and take 2 DR rotations). I am also really interested in everyone's thoughts about including not matching in my personal statement. Of course, I am happy to explain it in an interview.

Should I use my personal statement as an opportunity to explain why I think I didn't match / what I've learned from the experience? Or should I use it to talk about why I'm interested in DR and why this is a MUCH better fit for my personality and intellectual preferences? There is also an area on ERAS that asks "Was your medical education/training extended or interrupted?" and it's a 534-character text box. Thoughts?

You have a very strong application. Focus on DR in your PS, I don't see a need to go into the Match stuff...unless there is a red flag you have fixed. Otherwise, no apologies needed.

Hi @RadiologyPD thank you for your innumerable pearls! I've been following this thread since I became interested in Radiology and this thread has been super insightful. I had a question for you pertaining to geography. I am applying DR with fairly competitive stats (260 step 1, AOA, mostly Honors with some high pass, some first author publications, US MD). My school is in the southeast but I am trying to end up at a specific program out west in a state I have no ties to. I was wondering if you thought it would be a good idea to reach out after applications/MSPEs are released this year, to express my interest, or if I should rely on my stats alone to get me an interview. Thank you for taking the time to read this!

If you have a specific program in mind, I'd reach out now. Sooner the better. Even before your application stuff is submitted.

 

[success77]

You have a very strong application. Focus on DR in your PS, I don't see a need to go into the Match stuff...unless there is a red flag you have fixed. Otherwise, no apologies needed.



If you have a specific program in mind, I'd reach out now. Sooner the better. Even before your application stuff is submitted.

What's a safe way to reach out without burning bridges?

 

[RadiologyPD]

What's a safe way to reach out without burning bridges?

Look everyone, finding the right residency isn't like hooking up at a bar, where if you "make a play" for a program, they are going to blacklist you forever if you don't catch them in that special way. As if your pick-up line makes the difference.

If you know there's a "special program" you want, you should reach out and say that you are really interested in the program because of x, y, and z.

Now, if you aren't a competitive candidate, reaching out isn't going to hurt you--they'll blow you off now or later.

If you are approaching being a competitive candidate, or marginal, the reach out could put you into the interview.

If you already are a competitive candidate, the reach out ensures you aren't lost in the shuffle.

So, you might call the PC to see if the PD is receptive to an email introduction to highlight your interest--or, just send the email without the PC (some PCs are awesome, some are rather disorganized and you don't want to leave it in their hands if the latter).

If you are nervous about upsetting someone with a brief introductory message indicating that you're very interested, either (1) you are just being nervous for no reason; or (2) the PD has a stick up his/her *** and you don't need to go there anyway. If you really want to play it safe, reach out to one of the Chief Residents.

Having said all that, don't be that needy applicant, going overboard in the number of communications. Just play it like you would for a job, because quite frankly sometimes you need to reach out to practices in the future when you want a job in a particular place.

 

[Warped Apostle]

This might have been mentioned previously, but any advice to non-traditional applicants switching from other specialties? How do the residency programs review these applications differently?

 

[RadiologyPD]

see first part of post #92

Other than the consideration of how much "funding" you have left from Medicare sources, programs not encumbered by that limitation tend to view applicants from other fields favorably

 

[IwishIwasSmarter]

A few questions.:

1. My step 1/2 scores are 238/250. I am AOA. How does this place in terms of competitiveness for radiology. I only have regional ties to California and the state I went to medical school (Virginia). Should I be concerned about matching and should I dual apply?

2. Also my research is not radiology-based. Does research in general look good or does it have to specifically be research in radiology that is needed for academic programs?

Thank you!

 

[RadiologyPD]

1. My step 1/2 scores are 238/250. I am AOA. How does this place in terms of competitiveness for radiology. I only have regional ties to California and the state I went to medical school (Virginia). Should I be concerned about matching and should I dual apply?

No need to worry. Step scores are fine and AOA is great. Your application doesn't need "regional ties" to be seen as competitive. You will match.

2. Also my research is not radiology-based. Does research in general look good or does it have to specifically be research in radiology that is needed for academic programs?

Does not matter. See post #397.

 

[leanfire]

Hello @RadiologyPD thank you for so much information you are sharing with us. Yet i still have a few questions regarding non US IMG. Since i graduated a few months ago and already passed Step 1 with a score of 240+, i was thinking about the best way of increasing a FMG chances in general, not just my case, for a place in a radiology residency. Most of FMGs have a lot of experience in their current countries, but we usually keep struggling to get USCE and strong LORS. So here are my 2 questions:

1) Are observerships useful for a FMG in hospitals like Brigham and Womens, Beth Israel Medical Center or Massachussets General Hospital? or it wont matter where you do it since most of the residency programs dont count observerships as USCE? Since i'm fully interested in joining a radiology residency program, i want to know if observerships are taken into account when reviewing a FMG application. Moreover, observerships are known to be a reliable source of LORS, without being able to touch a patient. So is it worth the money?

2)There are many agencies providing USCE for FMGs in exchange of thousand of dollars, are they a trustful source of clinical experience? Do residency programs look down on foreing medical graduates that got their experiences with the help of these agencies?

Thank you!

 

[RadiologyPD]

When you are a non US IMG, you need a hook.

That hook can be:
1. research--to show you can execute projects and see them through to completion; also shows you are willing/able to work harder than others to achieve your goals
2. advocate--to get the advocacy of someone who will write an outstanding letter of recommendation, you usually have to work with them on something more than just an observership (i.e., research)
3. exceptional clinical skills--this is rare, usually someone who has already completed a radiology residency in another country and so can essentially step in and do outstanding work from day 1
4. exceptional test taking skills combined with exceptional language skills--to show this, you may need an effective letter of recommendation (in addition to the outstanding step scores)
5. absence of visa hurdles--if you don't need visa support, it's helpful--if you do, then the program worries that there might be an issue outside your control and their control that disrupts you from starting/completing the residency
6. known quantity--if you have done work/research at an institution and are well-liked, this will help

These are all relative to the program's typical applicants.

Keep in mind that since most programs are Advanced (not Categorical), the Advanced program that matches you has to pray that you will get an internship also--otherwise, you are worthless to them because you can't start your residency without completing an internship.

Observership is not on the list because it isn't important, outside of #2. MassGen and Hopkins are IMG factories for research--I can't see doing an observership alone being very useful.

I didn't realize that agencies were charging big money for this. You would have to talk to other IMGs who have been successful, it's certainly not something I have a lot of experience with, but I can't see USCE being very useful other than helping vette your language skills.

 

[RealHumanBean1]

@RadiologyPD Thanks so much for continuing to take the time to answer our questions. I have two of my own, which I'll try to generalize in the hopes of making them more applicable to others reading this thread, but will let you know that I'm a competitive applicant by traditional metrics (Strong STEPs/AOA, clinical honors) for purposes of informing any advice more specific to my situation/that of more competitive applicants.

1. I have minimal research: 1 non-Rads project with a abstract/posterior presentation (but no published manuscript) as well as one published Rads opinion piece that isn't "traditional" research. I'm really interested in learning about outside fields and applying that knowledge to Rads in a way that can allow me to explore these other interests (e.g. philosophy, behavioral psychology, personal finance and investing, etc. etc.) and improve the field itself/lives of radiologists in creative, interesting ways (my published piece reflects this). Is this type of research seen as less "valuable" to academic institutions (to which I'm applying predominantly)? Moreover, is having a less defined research interest such as this seen as a negative? And lastly, will applicants without "traditional" publications be seen as unable to follow through?

2. I have no real geographic ties or preferences to any particular region. What I want most is to attend the best program possible that will support me in the exploration of my interests and give me the best education I can get regardless of location. In a way, this translates to a genuine interest in all geographic regions - in both my home region and outside regions. What is the best way to convey this genuine interest? Are programs very receptive to this general explanation - or is it largely unhelpful in that this is something many applicants say despite not meaning?

Thank you again for taking the time to answer all of our questions.

 

[owenwilsonwoah]

@RadiologyPD

I tried searching this thread but had no luck, what are your thoughts on personalizing the personal statement for top choice programs and if also applying outside of a region of your medical school?

best ways to go about this if this is a good idea?

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD Thanks so much for continuing to take the time to answer our questions. I have two of my own, which I'll try to generalize in the hopes of making them more applicable to others reading this thread, but will let you know that I'm a competitive applicant by traditional metrics (Strong STEPs/AOA, clinical honors) for purposes of informing any advice more specific to my situation/that of more competitive applicants.

1. I have minimal research: 1 non-Rads project with a abstract/posterior presentation (but no published manuscript) as well as one published Rads opinion piece that isn't "traditional" research. I'm really interested in learning about outside fields and applying that knowledge to Rads in a way that can allow me to explore these other interests (e.g. philosophy, behavioral psychology, personal finance and investing, etc. etc.) and improve the field itself/lives of radiologists in creative, interesting ways (my published piece reflects this). Is this type of research seen as less "valuable" to academic institutions (to which I'm applying predominantly)? Moreover, is having a less defined research interest such as this seen as a negative? And lastly, will applicants without "traditional" publications be seen as unable to follow through?

2. I have no real geographic ties or preferences to any particular region. What I want most is to attend the best program possible that will support me in the exploration of my interests and give me the best education I can get regardless of location. In a way, this translates to a genuine interest in all geographic regions - in both my home region and outside regions. What is the best way to convey this genuine interest? Are programs very receptive to this general explanation - or is it largely unhelpful in that this is something many applicants say despite not meaning?

Thank you again for taking the time to answer all of our questions.

Answers below in the context of
A. Strong USMLE scores, AOA+, clinical honors: Let's say this is top quintile (80-99th percentile)
B. 2nd quintile candidate (60-80th) percentile
C. Average candidate (40-60th percentile)
D. Below average candidate (below 40th percentile)

1. Minimal research: keep in mind that having done research is a proxy for your ability to do everything you could have to "get ahead" which speaks to motivation. Very few (close to zero) med students are brought in because their research interest is something the program finds "valuable". Maybe for an occasional AI wizard or materials engineer, otherwise no. Programs don't choose residents based on their specific academic interests, they do choose residents who have academic interests because they are brand-enhancing (see earlier posts). Your focus on "improve the lives of radiologists" is dicey--I'd have to see exactly what you mean, it sounds a bit bogus. Don't get me wrong, non-traditional focus can be interesting, but only compelling if it is reflected in some genuine history of doing something with it. Also, be careful with the focus on "personal finance and investing"--if you are interested in teaching radiologists how to manage money, it sounds like you are interested in money--a legitimate interest, but usually not a good predictor for a resident who is going to advance the program brand.
A. No problem; still might be competitive for academic powerhouse, depends on how likeable you come across, and any other intangibles--such as being in a relatively underrepresented group.
B. Unlikely to get a spot at a top 5-8 academic powerhouses--but the programs are probably not a good fit anyway.
C. Larger group of "top" residencies will be out of reach.
D. Research could have been a hook, so need some other hook to get to average program.

2. No geographic ties--a geographic "free agent": See my prior posts--geography most useful to get the interview for bubble candidates.
A. Only helps you because expands your pool of getting the best program. You are already getting an interview at some of the best places. Perfect candidate for Mallinckrodt, Mayo Rochester. Tell them your intention to go to the best program in the interview, no need to write anything about it.
B. Helps you get your best program. Could put this in your personal statement.
C. Helps you get your best program, but you might benefit from letting the best programs in geographically less desirable places know that you are serious about them, so they invite you for interview (i.e., send an interest email early to the places you think are gettable based on your metrics but that might not have selected you for an interview thinking that you would not be interested).
D. Need to let everyone know you are willing to go anywhere, but saying it may not really help.

 

[RadiologyPD]

I tried searching this thread but had no luck, what are your thoughts on personalizing the personal statement for top choice programs and if also applying outside of a region of your medical school?

best ways to go about this if this is a good idea?

Yes, do it. In the personal statement (I believe you can personalize this for each program). Make sure it doesn't come off as disingenuous.

 

[owenwilsonwoah]

Yes, do it. In the personal statement (I believe you can personalize this for each program). Make sure it doesn't come off as disingenuous.

Thank you for the reply!

I plan on having 2-3 sentences about why I want to match outside of my medschool region due to proximity to my SO's family.

Is 2-3 sentences to little?

I want to keep it brief due to PDs having a lot to read.

 

[RadiologyPD]

short and sweet is good

 

[owenwilsonwoah]

@RadiologyPD

apologies for so many questions,

what is the number of LoRs we should submit for programs?

I have seen people recommend 4 letters regardless of what program websites indicate.

Should I upload 4 LoRs to all radiology programs, even if a program states they want 3 letters ( I will submit only three if they say maximum of three)

 

[RadiologyPD]

3 LORs is best if they ask for 3--4th only if it somehow adds something different, which is rare

don't stress about it--if you want to send 4, send 4--but LORs are only as good as the best 1 or 2. I have never run across an application where I thought to myself, "dang, I'm so glad I had that 4th letter, it made a difference"

 

[CallMeBigJeff]

@RadiologyPD is there an optimal time to schedule an interview with your #1? Or does the timing not make a difference? I was fortunate enough to receive an early interview invite to my #1 and having so many options has maxed out my neuroticism. Thank you again for the invaluable insight!

 

[Warped Apostle]

@RadiologyPD could you comment more on the ACGME/medicare funding for radiology residency? I heard that medicare will only pay for a certain number of years of residency. To circumvent this I imagine some programs pay for their own residency spots or possibly payment from a VA. Is this true?

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD is there an optimal time to schedule an interview with your #1? Or does the timing not make a difference? I was fortunate enough to receive an early interview invite to my #1 and having so many options has maxed out my neuroticism. Thank you again for the invaluable insight!

IMO, no meaningful difference in when you interview.

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD could you comment more on the ACGME/medicare funding for radiology residency? I heard that medicare will only pay for a certain number of years of residency. To circumvent this I imagine some programs pay for their own residency spots or possibly payment from a VA. Is this true?

I think I answered your previous question in post #566 in September on this very issue.

See post #92

Some programs do augment any Medicare funding with their own funding to increase the number of spots.

 

[Ho0v-man]

@RadiologyPD

What are your thoughts on letters of interest, a topic already beaten to death? A program near home has sent out invites already and I didn’t make the cut. My med school is out of state and my stats are way above their average so I’m wondering if I’m falling victim to yield protection.

thanks

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD

What are your thoughts on letters of interest, a topic already beaten to death? A program near home has sent out invites already and I didn’t make the cut. My med school is out of state and my stats are way above their average so I’m wondering if I’m falling victim to yield protection.

thanks

There's literally nothing left to say on this subject. Yes, send.

See posts 60, 141, 176, 185, 225, 261, 331, 467, others

 

[RadiologyPD]

Unless the story you are trying to tell is that you are going to be a researcher/academician, premed research is seen as efforts you made to get into medical school, and generally not germane to your residency application. We typically did not weigh this at all in our review of a candidate.

See posts 305, 324, 509 (parenthetically, it seems that if a person deletes a post, the numbering changes, which screws up the numbering references). For most candidates, research during medical school just checks a box about motivation/effort. Research before medical school isn't usually factored in.

The physics nature of your pre-med research might be of some interest if it speaks to your interest in radiology, as it could blossom in some way during residency.

 

[RadiologyPD]

It works.

 

[Bluepineapple3]

How competitive do you feel this cycle is compared to previous ones? Did the virtual nature of interviews change anything in your opinion? Thanks

 

[RadiologyPD]

How competitive do you feel this cycle is compared to previous ones? Did the virtual nature of interviews change anything in your opinion? Thanks

So I know I said it about a year ago, but last year was my last year as PD at my institution. See post #479, quoted below. In order to give the new PD some space, I haven't been involved with our program administration since stepping down after last season's interviews and rank list submission. I haven't seen our program's applicant pool, and I am not involved with our program's interviews this year. Of course, I'm still quite involved in teaching the great residents I have the pleasure to train.

I think I should let people following this thread know that I'm transitioning out of my role at PD over the next few months since that's the way we do things the place I am at. Fresh ideas, fresh leadership...totally makes sense. I'll still be super active training the fantastic residents I'm blessed to work with. I'll still chime in periodically, but at some point I just wont have the positional authority to authentically comment, at which point I'll stop.

As a result, I don't have any insight into this year's application cycle. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'll still chime in periodically to answer questions from my perspective, but at some point I just won't have the positional authority to comment on new developments, such as selection in the absence of Step 1 scores, etc. I've enjoyed trying to be a resource to everyone, and while I always tried to tell everyone that "n=1" on some of my opinions, the honest truth is that now my opinions are "n=0". Having said that, if there's something that I feel that I am out of step with compared to other programs, I've always tried to be clear about that--those who have read through the multiple posts know those topics (such as my attitude to radiology LORs, or love letters after interviews).

Good luck everyone!

 

[Bluepineapple3]

That’s awesome, thanks for the response I really appreciate it

 

[Dr. USMLE]

I'd like to use my previous research experience and specifically my background in physics as a means of expressing my enthusiasm for the field and to point to is as evidence for why I believe radiology is the best specialty in medicine. I'd also like this argument to possibly give PDs an additional sense of confidence that the CORE exam (given its small physics portion) would be less problematic for a resident in this position given the tough nature of the exam and the what, 15% failure rate?

Is this an argument that might fall flat to you?

It might not fall flat, but honestly it is not very compelling. Physics does not play a major role in daily radiology or even in clinical radiology research.

Most examinees who do not pass the CORE exam actually do not pass because of clinical radiology (rather than the physics component).

 

[owenwilsonwoah]

@RadiologyPD

I understand you are no longer a PD, but I was wondering if you could give some insight into how the virtual nature of this cycle has impacted how a program evaluates an applicant during an interview.

I interviewed at one of my top choices and I felt it could've gone well as I was nervous leading me to ramble on/stutter. Is this a killer for an evaluation of the interview session? or do top programs expect that applicants will be nervous when talking with them?

thank you as always

 

[RadiologyPD]

I understand you are no longer a PD, but I was wondering if you could give some insight into how the virtual nature of this cycle has impacted how a program evaluates an applicant during an interview.

I interviewed at one of my top choices and I felt it could've gone well as I was nervous leading me to ramble on/stutter. Is this a killer for an evaluation of the interview session? or do top programs expect that applicants will be nervous when talking with them?

I'm not sure how to answer your question because, quite frankly, I'm not sure how each institution and their respective interviewers are using the interview to shape their choices. Radiology residency selection committees are comprised of radiologists who generally are not trained to interview for hiring purposes. Despite my efforts to introduce some logic and purpose to the interview process in the program I used to run, I'll be honest and say that most (if not all) of the selection committee was interviewing and making assessments of the interview mainly on the following:
1. Do I like this person/do I want to work with this person?--not something I think can easily be assessed in 15 minutes.
2. Will this person "fit in"--an absolutely horrible question to consider, in my opinion, since it introduces serious issues regarding bias.
3. How easy was it to converse with this person? Do I find this person interesting--a variation of #1

During debrief sessions at the end of the day, the most common comments in support of any particular resident candidate were usually "I really liked that candidate", "I really hit it off with that candidate", "It was so easy to interview that candidate"--and the most common comments against any particular candidate were usually "I couldn't talk to that candidate", "I found that candidate off-putting", "I was so bored with that candidate." To me, this is embarrassing, but this is probably the true state of the radiology residency interview.

Of course, I'm exaggerating a bit--some of what happens in an interview is to see if the person "in person" matches the person "on paper". If you wax poetically about your interest in "pushing the science", then we are going to want to see that your natural inclinations are to ask about or talk about research opportunities, academic support, etc. But my suspicion is that most of the interviews you'll have as a radiology resident applicant are going to be unstructured conversations without any apparent direction or purpose--and for those of you with great credentials, the interview is going to consist of the interviewer "selling" you on the program, the city, the other residents, etc.

The truth of the matter is that most applicants would make perfectly fine radiology residents at most places. So perhaps it makes sense to just make sure the residents that get ranked higher have high "people" skills--can have conversations, can laugh, have good EQ.

Back to your question: It's natural to feel nervous for a high-stakes interview. Many candidates overestimate the extent to which they feel the interaction "was bad". Usually it wasn't that bad, and you are just going to have to trust your personal gut as to whether it was a pure bomb or not. Having said that, it's true that a truly "bad" interaction can make the interviewer not feel that you would "fit in" or would make that person not feel like they "want to spend time" with you. If this happened with every interviewer, it isn't great.

This can get discounted if you have exceptional metrics in other ways. Great letters, great med school performance, great "hooks" can definitely overcome an awkward interview day.

 

[RealHumanBean1]

@RadiologyPD Thanks again for taking the time to answer our questions. I want to ask -

How much does a solid interview move up the typical applicant on your rank list, on average?

I know you have a "personality score" based on the interview but is the range of personality scores amongst applicants generally large enough for this to make much of a difference? What's your gut feeling on how much a positive interview (interviewee is sociable, easy to talk to, has done a bit of research on the program, and sparks an enjoyable conversation... but is not the epitome of charisma) moves an applicant on your rank list?

Thanks again!

 

[CallMeBigJeff]

@RadiologyPD my apologies for sounding like a broken record, but once again thank you for being such a beacon of knowledge and insight. I have a question about “You’re my #1” emails that I don’t think has been asked before.

Is the optimal time to send one in January, once most interviews are done, or whenever that program is done interviewing? I ask because I interviewed with my #1 very early this season and they wrap up interviews this month. I’m also a 270+ AOA applicant that expressed my interest during my interview, mentioning in case that changes anything. Thank you so much for your time!

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD Thanks again for taking the time to answer our questions. I want to ask -

How much does a solid interview move up the typical applicant on your rank list, on average?

I know you have a "personality score" based on the interview but is the range of personality scores amongst applicants generally large enough for this to make much of a difference? What's your gut feeling on how much a positive interview (interviewee is sociable, easy to talk to, has done a bit of research on the program, and sparks an enjoyable conversation... but is not the epitome of charisma) moves an applicant on your rank list?

Thanks again!

A lot. Most radiology residency applicants are "smart enough" (scores).

To distinguish amongst this group of smart enough applicants, programs look to: (1) clinical grades; (2) hooks; (3) interview.

A track record of doing well in teams and compared to others at school (clinical grades, AOA) helps one move ahead of others who haven't done as well in clinical years or haven't been recognized.

Having a "great interview" moves one ahead of others who interviewed poorly.

Hooks (research, known entity/rotation, internal faculty recommendation, etc) moves one ahead.

Can't say that great interview beats out clinical grades/school honors or hooks when comparing to someone with ok interview, but it catapults the candidate over someone with poor interview.

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD my apologies for sounding like a broken record, but once again thank you for being such a beacon of knowledge and insight. I have a question about “You’re my #1” emails that I don’t think has been asked before.

Is the optimal time to send one in January, once most interviews are done, or whenever that program is done interviewing? I ask because I interviewed with my #1 very early this season and they wrap up interviews this month. I’m also a 270+ AOA applicant that expressed my interest during my interview, mentioning in case that changes anything. Thank you so much for your time!

Optimal time is as soon as you know it. Earlier the better because candidates don't realize that ranking occurs dynamically--once you leave your interview, you have probably been "roughly ranked", which then gets fine tuned as other candidates are revealed.

 

[CallMeBigJeff]

Optimal time is as soon as you know it. Earlier the better because candidates don't realize that ranking occurs dynamically--once you leave your interview, you have probably been "roughly ranked", which then gets fine tuned as other candidates are revealed.

Thank you for the answer, I'll get right to it then! I had no idea, I guess medical students think it'll rub PDs the wrong way if it's too early in the season but I guess it's just the neurotic culture.

 

[Qwerty122]

@RadiologyPD Thanks for doing this, I read through this entire thread in the past few weeks and I had a quick question/clarification that I hope you can answer. Perhaps others in a similar situation might be able to relate as well.

So I go to a "low" ranking MD school, and let's say I have a good step score (250+), decent amount of research (to show I can handle research, rather than a serious full dedication to research), good LORs, good clinical grades, and a unique narrative. You mentioned earlier in one of your posts that you would like to choose residents that "have a career trajectory that could inspire future residents and maintain our brand" and "help us recruit great residents in the future". To what extent will attending a "low" ranking MD school affect me in this regard? Do you think the perceived quality of the program for future applicants will drop if they see someone from a "low" ranking MD school as a resident in the program? If so, what steps would you recommend for students like me to match at these programs (if I remember correctly, aways aren't particularly useful, and stating regional ties for these programs won't really do you much favor)?

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD Thanks for doing this, I read through this entire thread in the past few weeks and I had a quick question/clarification that I hope you can answer. Perhaps others in a similar situation might be able to relate as well.

So I go to a "low" ranking MD school, and let's say I have a good step score (250+), decent amount of research (to show I can handle research, rather than a serious full dedication to research), good LORs, good clinical grades, and a unique narrative. You mentioned earlier in one of your posts that you would like to choose residents that "have a career trajectory that could inspire future residents and maintain our brand" and "help us recruit great residents in the future". To what extent will attending a "low" ranking MD school affect me in this regard? Do you think the perceived quality of the program for future applicants will drop if they see someone from a "low" ranking MD school as a resident in the program? If so, what steps would you recommend for students like me to match at these programs (if I remember correctly, aways aren't particularly useful, and stating regional ties for these programs won't really do you much favor)?

In general, the "rank" of the medical school is less important than your relative performance at the school. As it turns out, a lot of the highly ranked medical schools aren't as tough on their students in terms of differentiating them--for example, you can't tell from the MSPE if a Stanford medical student is at the top of the class or at the bottom of the class. In some ways, this makes it harder to judge those candidates because you have to rely on other clues to figure out if you are looking at a star or a dud.

But your question is whether the medical school rankings for the residents of the program are important to candidates, and thus influence the "brand" of the residency. As a candidate, you can reflect upon that question to provide your assessment.

To me, to some degree, it does...but I think the analysis is backward. If every resident in the program comes from a medical school that is considered "very low rank", then it's going to affect candidate perceptions of the program--but the program probably has some issues. If every resident comes from a T20 school, it's going to favorably affect candidate perceptions of the program--but the program probably is very good. A very good program can have some outstanding residents who were stars in their low ranked medical school--but those residents got into the program because they were stars.

Your individual metrics trump medical school rank. Top programs are going to highly rank star applicants from mediocre or low ranked medical schools, ranking them higher than average applicants from T20 schools, but those top programs also get star applicants from high ranking medical schools--so their residency class isn't going to be full of low ranked medical school stars.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[RadiologyPD]

Hi @RadiologyPD,
Thank you so much for your contributions in this thread! This is one of the most useful threads I've read in my years on SDN; I think other DR applicants would also agree with this! I see you are no longer PD, but I would love to hear your input on my somewhat unique situation.

Background: I'm currently on a research year (RY) between M3/M4 year-- I'm researching an IM subspecialty, but I will apply to DR. 1 year ago when I applied for the RY, I was considering IM and DR. At the time, I knew I wanted to get significant research experience, and I thought IM research would be helpful in either specialty's application, although I know it's not as useful as DR research. But in the past 3 months I've decided to apply to DR.

You mentioned you had a similar situation; you were considering academic IM before DR, and took a non-DR research year.
My RY is on track to be an average year productivity-wise. Otherwise, my app is average for DR and has no red flags. (Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 250s, average clinical grades). I want to go to an academic DR residency.

My questions are:
1. Overall, how would my RY look to DR PDs/Interviewers? My main concern is that they see my IM RY as possibly showing lack of interest in DR, a late change in interest to DR, or indecisiveness. (It sounds like this RY would be acceptable to you, but do you have any idea if other PDs feel similar?)

2. In order to improve my DR-specific productivity and show interest: if I do DR research with a different doctor/institution, (let's say 3-4 case reports before ERAS), on top of my IM research, would a Rads PD add this into their judgment of my RY productivity? If so, I could go from an average level of productivity (only based on IM research) to a slightly above average level during my RY.

3. My PI is an IM doc who will write me a Research LOR-- would a DR program think less of that versus a DR Research LOR? You mentioned you don't care if our best LOR isn't from a radiologist, but does this also apply to a Research LOR?

Thank you so much, we all appreciate your help! Even N= 1 (or 0!) is helpful.

1. I would not worry about anyone seeing you as a "late interest" in DR. Honestly, I don't think any PDs care about when you found your interest. No one else in my department would care, and our new PD would not care.

2. As I mentioned before, unless you are trying to sell yourself as a researcher, the primary purpose of research as a medical student is to show an ability to complete projects, work in teams, be curious, be motivated. I don't think it hurts to do 1 case report and it might help a little--not sure you need to do 3-4 per se for residency application, BUT if you are interested in eventually being in academics, every paper counts when you seek fellowships and even later when you look for academic promotion in your subsequent jobs (ridiculously and unfortunately, the number of publications is sometimes just as important as the quality).

3. No problem that your PI is IM. He/she knows you best, and will be a good reference.

 

[Dryad8212]

@RadiologyPD As someone who is trying to figure out what may be the best option to match into a mid tier radiology residency program in the future in which way would you point me in having a higher match of matching in the future: Going to a Caribbean medical school or take my acceptance with a DO school. I have acceptances to both. My grades were not good enough to get into an allopathic school.

 

[Goro]

@RadiologyPD As someone who is trying to figure out what may be the best option to match into a mid tier radiology residency program in the future in which way would you point me in having a higher match of matching in the future: Going to a Caribbean medical school or take my acceptance with a DO school. I have acceptances to both. My grades were not good enough to get into an allopathic school.

You can see here what an uphill climb you are facing as an IMG for Rads:

 

[RadiologyPD]

@RadiologyPD As someone who is trying to figure out what may be the best option to match into a mid tier radiology residency program in the future in which way would you point me in having a higher match of matching in the future: Going to a Caribbean medical school or take my acceptance with a DO school. I have acceptances to both. My grades were not good enough to get into an allopathic school.

Speaking with no personal knowledge or experience, I would say DO is substantially better.

The data presented by Goro seems to corroborate this.

 

[Dryad8212]

Speaking with no personal knowledge or experience, I would say DO is substantially better.

The data presented by Goro seems to corroborate this.

I really hate opp though :/. Appreciate it!