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Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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Trilt said:
Has to be something in cats owned by vets. The last time Tesla needed a cath she went home with both cephalics and one saph blown (finally got it on the last saph) and had gone through my 20+ year tech and two doctors to get it done. :laugh: I legit cannot remember the last patient we had to hit a third site with besides her, nevermind fourth.
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Blew both cephalics in my Corg trying to get an IVC for meloxicam toxicity tx. Took him to the freaking referral hospital and they put it in his medial saphenous. UGH. It's tough to get blood on him in general (he's pathetic about it too)- some just are that way and it sucks. No one likes having their vein dug around in.
 
DVMDream said:
I personally have a 2-3 stick policy then someone else needs to try. However, some patients really are that difficult to get blood from. Last time I had blood drawn on my cat it took 7 sticks and my cat is a total bitch but was actually cooperating decently. No one tried more than twice and this was with experienced techs and doctors trying to get blood. She just has fat legs and a thin vein. I gave her plenty of breaks in between, calmed her and provided pain control and iced her little legs that night, but sometimes it really is a bitch to get blood. Any reason the student didn't try a jugular stick? Did you ask? It is possible that the student is trying to get clinical skills checked off if Penn does that. I know we had a large list of clinical skills we had to prove we could do before we could graduate. I don't think it was wrong after the third stick to insist that someone else try.
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Thanks -- I appreciate your input 🙂 Your scenario sounds like the best way to deal with what happened in your case or when you have a patient that it's necessary to go through multiple sticks. Now I know a few ways to help make Z feel better if she's in that position again. From how the student mentioned the way she wanted to stick, it seemed that she would be more comfortable doing leg than jugular but you're right I should have asked right then. I'm not 100% but I think those check offs happen during ICVM courses (intro clinical vet med), rather than during clinics, but again, not sure, but now I realize/know to ask next time. I think maybe I thought I would be rude to ask her reasons after already mentioning that Z has a great jug and she immediately following up with wanting to do leg. I'm further saddened that I didn't know the correct way to have done the whole thing or that no one provided guidance -- giving her breaks? Would have probably helped Z and my mental happiness. Provide ice at night? No one mentioned it, but I would have gladly done it and I didn't even realize that hey, ice works for humans, so why not some animals too? Provide pain control? No one seemed concerned about her pain except me, but now I know to ask or to get her some meds or figure out what those methods are when you mention "pain control". Maybe it differs across schools... but frustrating to feel like you're training to be a vet, yet don't know jack about how to actually look after/treat an animal.
 
staff_wielder said:
Thanks -- I appreciate your input 🙂 Your scenario sounds like the best way to deal with what happened in your case or when you have a patient that it's necessary to go through multiple sticks. Now I know a few ways to help make Z feel better if she's in that position again. From how the student mentioned the way she wanted to stick, it seemed that she would be more comfortable doing leg than jugular but you're right I should have asked right then. I'm not 100% but I think those check offs happen during ICVM courses (intro clinical vet med), rather than during clinics, but again, not sure, but now I realize/know to ask next time. I think maybe I thought I would be rude to ask her reasons after already mentioning that Z has a great jug and she immediately following up with wanting to do leg. I'm further saddened that I didn't know the correct way to have done the whole thing or that no one provided guidance -- giving her breaks? Would have probably helped Z and my mental happiness. Provide ice at night? No one mentioned it, but I would have gladly done it and I didn't even realize that hey, ice works for humans, so why not some animals too? Provide pain control? No one seemed concerned about her pain except me, but now I know to ask or to get her some meds or figure out what those methods are when you mention "pain control". Maybe it differs across schools... but frustrating to feel like you're training to be a vet, yet don't know jack about how to actually look after/treat an animal.
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We have clinical competencies that we need to do during 4th year. Venipuncture is a competency, but it doesn’t specify which vein. Like you said, I’m guessing she was just more comfortable taking from the lateral saphenous vs jugular (many people are terrified of jug sticks).
 
Skimble said:
many people are terrified of jug sticks
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I've noticed this while in school and it's super weird to me. People specifically say they avoid the jug cause its scary. Prior to vet school, I drew blood almost exclusively from the jug.
 
WildZoo said:
I get nervous about em on cats but on a doggo it's my favorite spot
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Weirdly I'm better at them on cats than on dogs (we also had a professor show us how to do easy one-person jug draws on relatively friendly cats last year and it's been a great skill to keep in my back pocket)

but at the shelter the dogs we work with tend to seriously resent the positioning for jug draws vs a cephalic draw, I never really figured out why though. Usually the ones who seem more like they've had an ownership history are better about it than the ones who've mostly been strays
 
vetmedhead said:
Weirdly I'm better at them on cats than on dogs (we also had a professor show us how to do easy one-person jug draws on relatively friendly cats last year and it's been a great skill to keep in my back pocket)

but at the shelter the dogs we work with tend to seriously resent the positioning for jug draws vs a cephalic draw, I never really figured out why though. Usually the ones who seem more like they've had an ownership history are better about it than the ones who've mostly been strays
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I think I did learn how to do jug draws like that but I didn't really get to practice it so now I've forgotten and only remember trying to do it like you would with a dog, which is not super fun for anyone.

I could see it being kind of weird for them, especially if they're not used to being handled, it's not a really natural position.
 
WildZoo said:
I get nervous about em on cats but on a doggo it's my favorite spot
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Same. I typically draw from medial saph on kitties because I just feel like they tend to tolerate it better, but will do jug instead if needed.
 
It’s interesting how much clinic preferences vary. We basically did no jug draws cause they’re more stressful for the cat, but other places it seems pretty standard.
 
WildZoo said:
I think I did learn how to do jug draws like that but I didn't really get to practice it so now I've forgotten and only remember trying to do it like you would with a dog, which is not super fun for anyone.

I could see it being kind of weird for them, especially if they're not used to being handled, it's not a really natural position.
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The one handed is my favorite for smaller kittens. I don't try it on bigger cats because I don't feel that my hands are big enough to get a safe level of control over their head with that particular technique. I do think the baby kitties mind the one handed slightly less since I tend to trick them into the hold as I'm petting their head/face/neck, and it's usually a quick draw so they usually aren't sure what just happened lol
 
Assuming I have a proficient holder, jug sticks all the way dog and cat. I can get either done quickly. If my holder is too nervous or cat too fractious then medial saph. is fine, just not my preference unless for a combo.

For @staff_wielder, definitely three times you are out
 
Caiter92 said:
It’s interesting how much clinic preferences vary. We basically did no jug draws cause they’re more stressful for the cat, but other places it seems pretty standard.
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We do vast majority medial saphenous draws on cats. They generally tolerate it better and it's safer for our staff to do usually
 
StayingPositive2017 said:
Assuming I have a proficient holder, jug sticks all the way dog and cat. I can get either done quickly. If my holder is too nervous or cat too fractious then medial saph. is fine, just not my preference unless for a combo.

For @staff_wielder, definitely three times you are out
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Yes to all of this. I love jug sticks especially on cats. I especially prefer them on old dehydrated cats when their medial saph looks like a thread at least their jug is usually somewhat decent.

I find most cats will sit for them if you are quick and can hit it on your first try.
 
Caiter92 said:
It’s interesting how much clinic preferences vary. We basically did no jug draws cause they’re more stressful for the cat, but other places it seems pretty standard.
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We base it off that cat's comfort - whatever position the cat seems most comfortable with. Some don't mind sitting up for jug draws, some do better when upside down, some tolerate lounging for a medial saphenous instead. And then there are the ones that get gabapentin and come back another day. :vamp:
 
Skimble said:
We have clinical competencies that we need to do during 4th year. Venipuncture is a competency, but it doesn’t specify which vein. Like you said, I’m guessing she was just more comfortable taking from the lateral saphenous vs jugular (many people are terrified of jug sticks).
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Ours specified venipuncture location... you had to get so many from each location.
 
staff_wielder said:
Thanks -- I appreciate your input 🙂 Your scenario sounds like the best way to deal with what happened in your case or when you have a patient that it's necessary to go through multiple sticks. Now I know a few ways to help make Z feel better if she's in that position again. From how the student mentioned the way she wanted to stick, it seemed that she would be more comfortable doing leg than jugular but you're right I should have asked right then. I'm not 100% but I think those check offs happen during ICVM courses (intro clinical vet med), rather than during clinics, but again, not sure, but now I realize/know to ask next time. I think maybe I thought I would be rude to ask her reasons after already mentioning that Z has a great jug and she immediately following up with wanting to do leg. I'm further saddened that I didn't know the correct way to have done the whole thing or that no one provided guidance -- giving her breaks? Would have probably helped Z and my mental happiness. Provide ice at night? No one mentioned it, but I would have gladly done it and I didn't even realize that hey, ice works for humans, so why not some animals too? Provide pain control? No one seemed concerned about her pain except me, but now I know to ask or to get her some meds or figure out what those methods are when you mention "pain control". Maybe it differs across schools... but frustrating to feel like you're training to be a vet, yet don't know jack about how to actually look after/treat an animal.
Click to expand...

I did the pain control/icing myself. I don't think for the vast majority of pets that pain control is necessary post-blood draw and given the animal's underlying health status may even be contraindicated. I didn't give my cat an NSAID or anything like that, I had some extra gabapentin that I had already given her prior to her appt because she is a hellion so I gave her some more that night and then I noticed her little hind legs were all bruised up. So I put some ice in a plastic baggie, wrapped that with a paper towel, then had her lay in my lap as I let the ice just rest on her legs that night. Whether it actually helped or not.... don't know. But figured it won't hurt. She managed to stay put for 8 minutes before being done with the "ice on legs" ordeal and took off.
 
to all that commented on Max's eyes, thank you. It was a comfort to know that there is a possible treatment for cataracts; that he would not have to suffer. I was panicking, but your posts helped. Thank you. It was embarrassing that my google skills suck so much. And I did not mean to cause controversy, I apologize.

Our trip went well, we came back to pick up doggos, and discovered that Gracie has ear infection. yuck. at least she is being good with the drops. Max's eyes we are going to watch for now. Not cataracts. He has a "senior appointment" the first part of April, where they will draw blood and check for all the wonderful "old man" things, and do another dental. They also evaluated his back; and gave us a little different medication to use when he starts having pain. They felt it was his old injury, arthritis more than likely. Cold weather makes it act up.

We had come home Thursday--then I managed to kick Max's stairs on the way to the bathroom in the middle of the night. I had thought I had just stubbed my toes, it hurt pretty bad, tho. When my hubby got up to get the day started, I asked him if he would make me an icepack...we turned on the light. My baby pinkie toe was at a 90degree angle to the rest...uh...ok. So, trip to ED. Dislocated, they relocated. That hurt very much bad. Then Max started throwing up...it was not a good day on Friday!!
 
That discussion reminded me of how embarrassed and...guilty? I felt when I took my dog in for his general wellness appointment back in December, and I had to poke him 3 times attempting jugular 🙁 I reflexively aimed for the cephalic at first (easiest to me, esp since my dog is fluffy) but was stopped and told they prefer to attempt jugular first whenever possible. In addition to the neck fluff, his veins were small and very rolly. I already felt judged since I was taking seemingly forever and still missing (with the eyes of several 4th years and the techs on me), but even worse on top of that having to poke my own dog that many times. He was nervous for that whole visit, but a trooper. After my last attempt I think a tech took over for jugular and also didn't get much, so I finally was able to go cephalic and didn't even do very well on that either (lost it, so just got enough for that snap test). I was so embarrassed of the jugular ordeal that I just wanted to get out of there, but of course still had to stay a while for the actual snap test reading and wellness discussion with the doc, haha. In my vet tech program, we had a hard rule of no more than 3 poke attempts per animal per day (I think only 2 attempts for IV catheterization), but that is strictly enforced since they are university-owned and fall under IACUC.
 
Devastating said:
That discussion reminded me of how embarrassed and...guilty? I felt when I took my dog in for his general wellness appointment back in December, and I had to poke him 3 times attempting jugular 🙁 I reflexively aimed for the cephalic at first (easiest to me, esp since my dog is fluffy) but was stopped and told they prefer to attempt jugular first whenever possible. In addition to the neck fluff, his veins were small and very rolly. I already felt judged since I was taking seemingly forever and still missing (with the eyes of several 4th years and the techs on me), but even worse on top of that having to poke my own dog that many times. He was nervous for that whole visit, but a trooper. After my last attempt I think a tech took over for jugular and also didn't get much, so I finally was able to go cephalic and didn't even do very well on that either (lost it, so just got enough for that snap test). I was so embarrassed of the jugular ordeal that I just wanted to get out of there, but of course still had to stay a while for the actual snap test reading and wellness discussion with the doc, haha. In my vet tech program, we had a hard rule of no more than 3 poke attempts per animal per day (I think only 2 attempts for IV catheterization), but that is strictly enforced since they are university-owned and fall under IACUC.
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Just remember that everyone has bad days of getting blood. No one should be hardcore judging you for missing attempts. 🙂 I always feel like people watching makes everything worse that I attempt, no matter what it is. 😛
 
katashark said:
Just remember that everyone has bad days of getting blood. No one should be hardcore judging you for missing attempts. 🙂 I always feel like people watching makes everything worse that I attempt, no matter what it is. 😛
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Yea this is something people need to understand. I’ve never met anyone who can always hit a vein 100% of the time. I’ve drawn blood from hundreds of animals. Probably into the thousands by now. Some days I hit every vein I try. Some days I miss half of them. When I miss, I just say to the other tech “hey can we swap? I’m having a really off day.” And that’s the end of it. And if I see my coworker struggling and they don’t seem to want to give up, I’ll say “hey do you want me to give it a shot?” At the end of the day we just want to get blood in the tube quickly and without putting the animal through hell to get it. Pride isn’t worth it.
 
I think that episode was kind of a back-down-to-earth/demoralizing moment for me, after I had done really well on an ear venipuncture during a rabbit wet lab in November. The lab animal Dr was impressed and asked me how I did it (vet tech lab animal education ftw!) That felt SOOO awesome and was a great confidence booster, but remembering how I could hit those tiny rabbit vessels became another reason for me to feel embarrassed during that bad day with regular dog venipuncture :laugh: I should start practicing palpating his jugulars in preparation for the next time!

Totally unrelated rant: old news, but I saw reviews people have left on LSU's facebook page. ughhhh, the endless stream of uninformed people who learned about some research from our favorite P-organization and proceed to attack an academic institution over actions/procedures they don't understand. Exactly the reason why I can't share photos from the wet lab I attended last weekend. But you can't really do anything about it because it would either be unprofessional to respond negatively to such people, or rationale would not get through to them anyway. just uuuuuggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
 
Devastating said:
That discussion reminded me of how embarrassed and...guilty? I felt when I took my dog in for his general wellness appointment back in December, and I had to poke him 3 times attempting jugular 🙁 I reflexively aimed for the cephalic at first (easiest to me, esp since my dog is fluffy) but was stopped and told they prefer to attempt jugular first whenever possible. In addition to the neck fluff, his veins were small and very rolly. I already felt judged since I was taking seemingly forever and still missing (with the eyes of several 4th years and the techs on me), but even worse on top of that having to poke my own dog that many times. He was nervous for that whole visit, but a trooper. After my last attempt I think a tech took over for jugular and also didn't get much, so I finally was able to go cephalic and didn't even do very well on that either (lost it, so just got enough for that snap test). I was so embarrassed of the jugular ordeal that I just wanted to get out of there, but of course still had to stay a while for the actual snap test reading and wellness discussion with the doc, haha. In my vet tech program, we had a hard rule of no more than 3 poke attempts per animal per day (I think only 2 attempts for IV catheterization), but that is strictly enforced since they are university-owned and fall under IACUC.
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I have a personal policy of not being the "doctor" or tech for any of my own pets.

It's not that I can't do it, but I'd like to keep my relationship with my animals strictly personal when I can and hate being the one doing "scary" or weird procedures to them. If I were the only one who could do them, sure, but my cat is an absolute dream in clinical settings and in my opinion it's not necessary for me to be anything other than his owner when we're at appointments together.

I find it much less stressful to learn and practice when I'm fully in a care provider role, rather than straddling the line between owner/provider, but maybe that's a personal thing for me
 
Devastating said:
I think that episode was kind of a back-down-to-earth/demoralizing moment for me, after I had done really well on an ear venipuncture during a rabbit wet lab in November. The lab animal Dr was impressed and asked me how I did it (vet tech lab animal education ftw!) That felt SOOO awesome and was a great confidence booster, but remembering how I could hit those tiny rabbit vessels became another reason for me to feel embarrassed during that bad day with regular dog venipuncture :laugh: I should start practicing palpating his jugulars in preparation for the next time!

Totally unrelated rant: old news, but I saw reviews people have left on LSU's facebook page. ughhhh, the endless stream of uninformed people who learned about some research from our favorite P-organization and proceed to attack an academic institution over actions/procedures they don't understand. Exactly the reason why I can't share photos from the wet lab I attended last weekend. But you can't really do anything about it because it would either be unprofessional to respond negatively to such people, or rationale would not get through to them anyway. just uuuuuggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
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I was actually going to say that the one vein I haven’t hit is a rabbit ear. If you can do that, you can definitely hit a dog jugular if you just make sure to breathe and focus. I’ve noticed I always miss jugulars if I hesitate and second guess myself as to where I think it is if it’s not easily palpable. If you’re pretty sure you’re in the right spot, commit. I learned how to draw blood from the jugular on goats and that made it much easier to shrink down for dogs and cats. Just go in next time, take a deep breath, and believe you’re going to do it right. And if you don’t, try again next time.
 
ajs513 said:
I was actually going to say that the one vein I haven’t hit is a rabbit ear. If you can do that, you can definitely hit a dog jugular if you just make sure to breathe and focus. I’ve noticed I always miss jugulars if I hesitate and second guess myself as to where I think it is if it’s not easily palpable. If you’re pretty sure you’re in the right spot, commit. I learned how to draw blood from the jugular on goats and that made it much easier to shrink down for dogs and cats. Just go in next time, take a deep breath, and believe you’re going to do it right. And if you don’t, try again next time.
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Just wait until you get an opportunity to do a horse jugular. It's like drawing blood from a hose and it's fabulous
 
vetmedhead said:
Just wait until you get an opportunity to do a horse jugular. It's like drawing blood from a hose and it's fabulous
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Oh god I know. I’ve never worked with horses, but in my anatomy class we euthanized a horse (already sick/not going to make it through winter) for dissection. The girl who placed the catheter was hesitant of whether or not she was in the right spot. The whole time I was just thinking “right spot? You have 30 inches of ‘spot’ to hit!”
 
ajs513 said:
Oh god I know. I’ve never worked with horses, but in my anatomy class we euthanized a horse (already sick/not going to make it through winter) for dissection. The girl who placed the catheter was hesitant of whether or not she was in the right spot. The whole time I was just thinking “right spot? You have 30 inches of ‘spot’ to hit!”
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Ehhhhhhh
Certain spots are more preferred because it’s further lateral from the carotid and there is not a sheet of cutaneous colli covering it.
 
SkiOtter said:
Ehhhhhhh
Certain spots are more preferred because it’s further lateral from the carotid and there is not a sheet of cutaneous colli covering it.
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Huh. Didn’t know that. Shows how much I actually know about horses!
 
SkiOtter said:
Ehhhhhhh
Certain spots are more preferred because it’s further lateral from the carotid and there is not a sheet of cutaneous colli covering it.
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Also you can get Horner’s Syndrome and damage to the vagus nerve in the carotid sheath! Agree with Ski, it’s not just finding the nearest garden hose and sticking!
 
vetmedhead said:
Just wait until you get an opportunity to do a horse jugular. It's like drawing blood from a hose and it's fabulous
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I remember being in school with almost zero large animal experience when I started clinics and the clinicians were hesitant to have me try to give IV medications since I had only done small animal med before so I was less confident for most things with large animals and I just found that amusing. I ended up doing alllllllllll the sedation for a herd of sheep lap AIs since none of the other students could hit a sheep jug, lol.
 
vetmedhead said:
I have a personal policy of not being the "doctor" or tech for any of my own pets.

It's not that I can't do it, but I'd like to keep my relationship with my animals strictly personal when I can and hate being the one doing "scary" or weird procedures to them. If I were the only one who could do them, sure, but my cat is an absolute dream in clinical settings and in my opinion it's not necessary for me to be anything other than his owner when we're at appointments together.

I find it much less stressful to learn and practice when I'm fully in a care provider role, rather than straddling the line between owner/provider, but maybe that's a personal thing for me
Click to expand...
They encourage us to practice/get involved when we can! (vaccines, venipuncture, etc.). Oddly, I actually was somewhat excited to have the opportunity to draw blood on my own dog, which I had been wondering about ever since I was first learning venipuncture--I can absolutely understand that line of thinking though, especially when it comes to more intense procedures (it was certainly another reason I felt guilty--the feeling that my own pet was experiencing a prolonged stressful event from me). I don't know if I'd be comfortable performing a surgery on my own pet, for example, but hopefully that would only remain a hypothetical situation.

ajs513 said:
I was actually going to say that the one vein I haven’t hit is a rabbit ear. If you can do that, you can definitely hit a dog jugular if you just make sure to breathe and focus. I’ve noticed I always miss jugulars if I hesitate and second guess myself as to where I think it is if it’s not easily palpable. If you’re pretty sure you’re in the right spot, commit. I learned how to draw blood from the jugular on goats and that made it much easier to shrink down for dogs and cats. Just go in next time, take a deep breath, and believe you’re going to do it right. And if you don’t, try again next time.
Click to expand...
Definitely! While in school I hit rabbit ears and a few tiny cat jugulars pretty well. But poor Axl's veins were so damn rolly and hard to find, so I did keep second-guessing myself on the position. In the grand scheme of things, though, I guess I still have had relatively little venipuncture experience compared to someone who's been working in the field for a few years, so I could benefit from getting more jugular practice on a variety of dog shapes and sizes (majority of our program dogs were medium to large).


Hard agree on horse jugulars. Now that one wasn't hard to do successfully in front of people, at least. Large animals ftw :laugh: I think when I first learned horse venipuncture at an externship, I actually went too superficial since I was so used to dogs/cats.
 
vetmedhead said:
Yeah, the main downside of how easy horse jugs are to hit is that in a lot of cases it's equally easy to hit the carotid by mistake

Which is, like, so fabulously bad if you're doing an injection
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I've heard so many horror stories...
 
WildZoo said:
I've heard so many horror stories...
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One of my professors knew somebody who accidentally gave a very expensive client horse I think banamine into the carotid when she was a student and it had a seizure and died from complications related to that. I don't believe that student ended up completing vet school because I think it wasn't the first time she had done something like that
 
I hate the snowy hills and my truck only has 2wd and gets 0 traction even with extra weight. So I put my new chains on that I literally just got-they dont fit 100% right so my mud flaps came off and I'll have to fix those. I for sure missed 7/11 allowed points I could miss on a midterm before failing. I have 2 more exams and a quiz due later this week and more next week. Of course everything club wise has to be happening the last 2 weeks before spring break. Things keep breaking and costing money we dont have. Idk why I try to help most prevets anymore-most dont listen and I'm not sure it's worth the effort reaching the very few people per cycle that actually care about living a life after school compared to all the ones I try and help. I just could really use a day or two hiding not doing anything. At least my fiance made me dinner tonight, thats the only reason I didnt just come home and break down today. It has just been one of those days to say the least...
 
genny said:
Yeah but you really have to try to hit the carotid. As long as you stay away from the danger zone, you’re golden.
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giphy.gif
 
MixedAnimals77 said:
I hate the snowy hills and my truck only has 2wd and gets 0 traction even with extra weight. So I put my new chains on that I literally just got-they dont fit 100% right so my mud flaps came off and I'll have to fix those. I for sure missed 7/11 allowed points I could miss on a midterm before failing. I have 2 more exams and a quiz due later this week and more next week. Of course everything club wise has to be happening the last 2 weeks before spring break. Things keep breaking and costing money we dont have. Idk why I try to help most prevets anymore-most dont listen and I'm not sure it's worth the effort reaching the very few people per cycle that actually care about living a life after school compared to all the ones I try and help. I just could really use a day or two hiding not doing anything. At least my fiance made me dinner tonight, thats the only reason I didnt just come home and break down today. It has just been one of those days to say the least...
Click to expand...
Hugs! :biglove:
This too shall pass. At least nobody died!
 
MixedAnimals77 said:
I hate the snowy hills and my truck only has 2wd and gets 0 traction even with extra weight. So I put my new chains on that I literally just got-they dont fit 100% right so my mud flaps came off and I'll have to fix those. I for sure missed 7/11 allowed points I could miss on a midterm before failing. I have 2 more exams and a quiz due later this week and more next week. Of course everything club wise has to be happening the last 2 weeks before spring break. Things keep breaking and costing money we dont have. Idk why I try to help most prevets anymore-most dont listen and I'm not sure it's worth the effort reaching the very few people per cycle that actually care about living a life after school compared to all the ones I try and help. I just could really use a day or two hiding not doing anything. At least my fiance made me dinner tonight, thats the only reason I didnt just come home and break down today. It has just been one of those days to say the least...
Click to expand...
Sorry you had a rough day mixy. Take some time to yourself to recharge. It'll make you more productive when you go to tackle all the things in life and school later. :biglove:
 
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