RANT HERE thread

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Although, I will also take a farm pig patient >>>>> poorly trained pet pig patient any day. The pet pigs can be such bratty, bitey princesses.
Lots of my experience with pigs is finding these pet pigs wandering the side of the road and taking them into the shelter, then yelling at people all day to make sure the damn pig always has water because it's 80000 degrees in TX and pigs are sensitive to salt toxicity even on a good day

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Although, I will also take a farm pig patient >>>>> poorly trained pet pig patient any day. The pet pigs can be such bratty, bitey princesses.

So far, the only pet pig I have met was debilitated cause she ate a couch up in Chicago and needed exploratory surgery. I have personally not had the joy of a bratty pig yet lol
 
The bull**** that people post about cattle or animals increasing greenhouse gases, is mostly bull****. The amount released by cattle is so minimal compared to numerous other things. It irritates me when people attack an industry that, yes, is somewhat responsible for the increase in greenhouse gas emissions but without the ag industry the world would literally starve to death.

I've been seeing on facebook several posts shared by production medicine friends about how emissions have been mildly to moderately reduced during COVID lockdowns, and how none of that reduction has been due to the reduction of production animals during March, April, and even May. I haven't personally looked too deeply into that, though due to online rotations. But right now is definitely a good time to look at data to really see the effects of ag on climate compared to other factors.
 
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I bet pig producers will give you those pigs for free. Food safety is also a concern. You need proper equipment and handling and cooling facilities to make sure the meat is safe. I would not feed the needy with questionably processed meat.
This. Socioeconomic status is already a public health issue and is risk factor for COVID. We don't need to be poisoning people now, too.
 
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I've been seeing on facebook several posts shared by production medicine friends about how emissions have been mildly to moderately reduced during COVID lockdowns, and how none of that reduction has been due to the reduction of production animals during March, April, and even May. I haven't personally looked too deeply into that, though due to online rotations. But right now is definitely a good time to look at data to really see the effects of ag on climate compared to other factors.

Going to be really hard to tell.

You had some decreased ag production but also people were staying home. So you had a decrease in cars on the roads, buses running, etc, etc.

Going to be impossible to say that the decrease was x over y or y over x.
 
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This. Socioeconomic status is already a public health issue and is risk factor for COVID. We don't need to be poisoning people now, too.

when you stop and think about it, it’s really unfortunate that we live in a world where it’s not as simple as have extra food = feed hungry people...the waste really is a shame.
 
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I've been seeing on facebook several posts shared by production medicine friends about how emissions have been mildly to moderately reduced during COVID lockdowns, and how none of that reduction has been due to the reduction of production animals during March, April, and even May. I haven't personally looked too deeply into that, though due to online rotations. But right now is definitely a good time to look at data to really see the effects of ag on climate compared to other factors.
I'm all for discussing how we can reduce our impact on the environment and on climate change within the veterinary profession. One of the things I think we should prioritize is the absolutely crazy use of plastic and single use items in medical professions in general. Human med fields are way worse about it than us (human medicine is actually responsible for about a tenth of all US greenhouse gas emissions), but being better doesn't exactly make us great.

I think there could also be a bigger push to use more sustainable energy for machines and power use in general in hospitals, increase recycling, focus more on multi-use cleaning items (came across a study recently that even using microfiber towels to clean one kennel and then throwing into the laundry has less environmental impact than using paper towels to clean everything), and get more legislatively involved alongside members of other health professions to communicate with policy makers about why stricter environmental and emissions regulations are important.
 
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One of the things I think we should prioritize is the absolutely crazy use of plastic and single use items in medical professions in general.

My best friend is a medical assistant in rural NE and I brought up how we reuse ET tubes between patients and it blew her mind that we reuse things. Like, we had a long discussion about single use plastics in human vs vet med and how part of it is cost. Our wildlife medical clinic absolutely could not function cost-wise if we had to purchase new ET tubes, red rubbers for tube feeding, etc. for every patient. We would probably go bankrupt in one orphan season. But then you factor in things like catheters that can't be reused and probably aren't recyclable. I have no idea how to improve that to be honest. :/

I also don't know how much is regulations in human medicine leading to single use plastics either.
 
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when you stop and think about it, it’s really unfortunate that we live in a world where it’s not as simple as have extra food = feed hungry people...the waste really is a shame.
I agree. It is a shame.

This whole discussion is making me want to dive further down into a sarcastic internet rant about American politics, but... I am going to go take a practice NAVLE instead. A different sort of pig stress lol.
 
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I agree. It is a shame.

This whole discussion is making me want to dive further down into a sarcastic internet rant about American politics, but... I am going to go take a practice NAVLE instead. A different sort of pig stress lol.

SPF is always open!
 
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Plus, let's just discuss "shooting" a pig.

Have you ever tried to do anything to a pig? And I mean anything. Vaccine, draw blood, just freaking look at them? Give me a pissed off 2# kitten fluff any day over a pig. They will fight and scream to get away.

Pigs also have a very large skull size compared to their brain. A very succinct way to say that shooting them appropriately to qualify as "humane" is not an easy task to do at all. You have to be on target, have good aim and someone who is exceptional at pig restraint to get it done appropriately. To attempt to do this 1200 times over in a building that is full of riled up pigs..... not going to happen.
I read that bolded part and laughed pretty hard, cause it is very true :laugh: yet I have chosen this as my career path.

Captive bolting is not the easiest thing to do. I have seen it go wrong before and it is not a good thing.

Their scream is loud enough that repeat exposure to pig screams can lead to hearing loss.
This is one of the reasons my dad has hearing loss, and honestly I probably do too. You try to wear ear plugs, but sometimes you forget and say it's only one shot I'm giving, but when it happens on a routine basis, it all adds up.

If anyone ever has questions about the pork industry or my personal experiences my PM box is open (or any way you wish to contact me outside of SDN if you know how) and I am willing to talk about anything pig related.
 
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Lots of my experience with pigs is finding these pet pigs wandering the side of the road and taking them into the shelter, then yelling at people all day to make sure the damn pig always has water because it's 80000 degrees in TX and pigs are sensitive to salt toxicity even on a good day
We got a few "Pig at large" cases while I was in clinics and it always made me chuckle a little
 
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One of my two long-term patients on farm animal was a grumpy old potbellied pig with erythema multiforme and a bat**** owner. Seriously preferred medicating the pig to talking to his owner :laugh: but I heard he got more ornery later on as his condition started to improve

I feel like a lot of the pet pigs are probably super extra grumpy because they're so fat and all their joints hurt
 
I've been seeing on facebook several posts shared by production medicine friends about how emissions have been mildly to moderately reduced during COVID lockdowns, and how none of that reduction has been due to the reduction of production animals during March, April, and even May. I haven't personally looked too deeply into that, though due to online rotations. But right now is definitely a good time to look at data to really see the effects of ag on climate compared to other factors.
There was a study a while back claiming that livestock emissions contributed much more to greenhouse gas production than vehicular emissions. The problem was that for livestock emissions they included direct and indirect sources, whereas for vehicles they only included direct emissions (from finished cars) and not things like emissions from the manufacturing process. The authors of the initial paper owned up to the error but it was already out there, so just like vaccines and autism, people ran with it.

The EPA also estimates the total contribution to greenhouse gas emissions of various sectors (I think every year but the most recent one I found was 2018).
And there are suggestions for improving those impacts as well.
 
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I meant to add in there that while methane has more warming potential than CO2, it's hard to make direct comparisons because it also dissipates more quickly. Not sure if there are studies out there that actually look at quantifying impact based on the different gas properties.
 
I bet with enough time we could probably genetically engineer extremely nutrient dense plants to grow on land that isn't built to support crops but like, then people wouldn't want to eat them because GMOs :zip:

I also came across a thing about feeding cows seaweed to reduce emissions. Which I need to look into more because...woah.
 
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I meant to add in there that while methane has more warming potential than CO2, it's hard to make direct comparisons because it also dissipates more quickly. Not sure if there are studies out there that actually look at quantifying impact based on the different gas properties.
I remembered learning about this in several animal science courses. I think this article explains the relative impact and prevalence, as well as main sources. Main Greenhouse Gases | Center for Climate and Energy Solutions
 
There was a study a while back claiming that livestock emissions contributed much more to greenhouse gas production than vehicular emissions. The problem was that for livestock emissions they included direct and indirect sources, whereas for vehicles they only included direct emissions (from finished cars) and not things like emissions from the manufacturing process. The authors of the initial paper owned up to the error but it was already out there, so just like vaccines and autism, people ran with it.

The EPA also estimates the total contribution to greenhouse gas emissions of various sectors (I think every year but the most recent one I found was 2018).
And there are suggestions for improving those impacts as well.

Thanks for the links!! :D
 
Plus, let's just discuss "shooting" a pig.

Have you ever tried to do anything to a pig? And I mean anything. Vaccine, draw blood, just freaking look at them? Give me a pissed off 2# kitten fluff any day over a pig. They will fight and scream to get away.

Pigs also have a very large skull size compared to their brain. A very succinct way to say that shooting them appropriately to qualify as "humane" is not an easy task to do at all. You have to be on target, have good aim and someone who is exceptional at pig restraint to get it done appropriately. To attempt to do this 1200 times over in a building that is full of riled up pigs..... not going to happen.
Yes, I regularly process piglets- this involves tail docking, ear notching, vaccinations, & intramuscular iron injection. I also work with adult swine giving them subaural vaccinations, treating foot rot, and performing AI. Your point is valid and I brought up "shooting" a pig because it still seems more humane than what the Iowa farmers did because it would be quicker.
 
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There is nowhere to slaughter pigs currently for all the pigs that need a place to go. There literally isn’t. And there is nowhere to process those carcasses. That literally is the problem. If there were, these pigs would not be wasted. So I don’t see why you keep bringing it up as a solution. There are a lot of people who use smaller operations to just cull one or two animals a year, and they cannot schedule even that for over a year right now.

And when you have thousands and thousands and thousands of pigs stuck in limbo, even if you personally wanted to pick up a few pigs to shoot yourself, it would not be helpful. I bet pig producers will give you those pigs for free. Food safety is also a concern. You need proper equipment and handling and cooling facilities to make sure the meat is safe. I would not feed the needy with questionably processed meat. Have you ever butchered a 300lb carcass? It’s not something you just do in your kitchen.

Just FYI though, working at “a farm” does not equate to working at or remotely understanding how commercial pig operations work. They are a very unique entity... I’m really not interested in debating whether or not “factory farms” are ok so I’m not going to comment further along this train of thought.
Look, I wasn't trying to start an argument. I think we all can agree that at the very least the situation isn't ideal. These types of discussions are important in order for things to change and improve. However, let's not be patronizing because "I only work on a farm."... I never claimed to be some sort of expert, and I am not apologizing for caring about the welfare of pigs. (& I agree, needy people deserve meat that has been properly processed and inspected btw).
 
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Yes, I regularly process piglets- this involves tail docking, ear notching, vaccinations, & intramuscular iron injection. I also work with adult swine giving them subaural vaccinations, treating foot rot, and performing AI. Your point is valid and I brought up "shooting" a pig because it still seems more humane than what the Iowa farmers did because it would be quicker.

I am going to argue that having 1000+ other pigs freaking out around you with repeated loud gun shots going off and no way to get away is not likely to fall under "more humane" sure once it is that pig's "turn" it will be a faster death, but if you are the last pig to go, it is going to be an awful few hours, potentially multiple days before the entire process is over.

I get it, I don't personally like VSD either, but given the limited other options, it was the most humane, available option at the time.
 
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Chewy is sending me emails about discounts on grain-free dog food :grumpy:

You know, they annoy me on the vet side of things.

BUT, I can see why people love them. I ordered a couple cases of cat food for my dying kitten with special dietary needs (per nutritionist needed very specific OTC diets I couldn’t find on the shelf anywhere). So I ordered from chewy and he died the day it arrived. It was like $75 of cat food I didn’t need since all my other cats are on Rx diets, so I emailed them and asked if I could “return” it because he died and attached a picture. They actually had a person email back expressing their sincere condolences, and per their usual policy told us to donate it but gave us a full refund.

Then a few weeks later, they also sent me a beautiful oil painting on canvas of my kitten from the picture with a sympathy card. I felt kinda bad because I’d literally spent $0 with them and they’d essentially given me $75 of cat food plus free shipping. It would explain how they are operating at a loss in hopes of recouping later. I ended up starting to order cat litter from them at the start of the stay at home order because of this.
 
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You know, they annoy me on the vet side of things.

BUT, I can see why people love them. I ordered a couple cases of cat food for my dying kitten with special dietary needs (per nutritionist needed very specific OTC diets I couldn’t find on the shelf anywhere). So I ordered from chewy and he died the day it arrived. It was like $75 of cat food I didn’t need since all my other cats are on Rx diets, so I emailed them and asked if I could “return” it because he died and attached a picture. They actually had a person email back expressing their sincere condolences, and per their usual policy told us to donate it but gave us a full refund.

Then a few weeks later, they also sent me a beautiful oil painting on canvas of my kitten from the picture with a sympathy card. I felt kinda bad because I’d literally spent $0 with them and they’d essentially given me $75 of cat food plus free shipping. It would explain how they are operating at a loss in hopes of recouping later. I ended up starting to order cat litter from them at the start of the stay at home order because of this.
Wow, that is incredibly sweet. And sorry about your kitten :(
 
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You know, they annoy me on the vet side of things.

BUT, I can see why people love them. I ordered a couple cases of cat food for my dying kitten with special dietary needs (per nutritionist needed very specific OTC diets I couldn’t find on the shelf anywhere). So I ordered from chewy and he died the day it arrived. It was like $75 of cat food I didn’t need since all my other cats are on Rx diets, so I emailed them and asked if I could “return” it because he died and attached a picture. They actually had a person email back expressing their sincere condolences, and per their usual policy told us to donate it but gave us a full refund.

Then a few weeks later, they also sent me a beautiful oil painting on canvas of my kitten from the picture with a sympathy card. I felt kinda bad because I’d literally spent $0 with them and they’d essentially given me $75 of cat food plus free shipping. It would explain how they are operating at a loss in hopes of recouping later. I ended up starting to order cat litter from them at the start of the stay at home order because of this.
I figure one of the things they can do with product losses is write them off as a donation for tax purposes?

I’m sorry about your kitty, minner :( I do love that they do things for grieving pet parents a lot
 
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Yeah, I am going to admit I have started to order cat food and litter from Chewy as well. Sad, because I would order directly from Purina, Hill's, or Royal Canin but they only allow veterinary professionals in clinical medicine to order directly from them.

Kind of a bad way to present yourself to someone who does still occasionally recommend your foods despite not being in clinical medicine.
 
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Yeah, I am going to admit I have started to order cat food and litter from Chewy as well. Sad, because I would order directly from Purina, Hill's, or Royal Canin but they only allow veterinary professionals in clinical medicine to order directly from them.

Kind of a bad way to present yourself to someone who does still occasionally recommend your foods despite not being in clinical medicine.
I just got a Royal Canin account approved last week but it may be because I am a specialist. I wonder if your job would qualify? Might be worth a call to their customer care line to ask if you feed RC.

Edit: I’ve used Chewy’s pharmacy because they carry a wider range of products than where I did my residency. Derm wanted us to use bravecto but Winston’s IBD meant we needed a topical and Chewy carried topical bravecto. I have ordered supplies (crates, beds, etc.) from them several times but since they ship via FedEx, I have a horrible time getting my Chewy packages. Nearly every package they send me has to get shipped a second time, which seems awful for their bottom line.
 
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Wow, that is incredibly sweet. And sorry about your kitten :(
I figure one of the things they can do with product losses is write them off as a donation for tax purposes?

I’m sorry about your kitty, minner :( I do love that they do things for grieving pet parents a lot

Thanks. He had a really amazing life albeit how short it was. It was a different kind of devastating with the one year old kitty I’ve had since 6 weeks old than the ancient heart cat that got me through adulthood. Poor thing was not meant to live long, but was surprisingly normal until the very end. And it was a sudden, rush to the ER and euthanize type of situation rather than the beautiful home euthanasia I planned over years for my old cat. My husband was really sad we didn’t get to do the same for this little guy. He totally gets why I am obsessive about providing the best possible euthanasia experiences for my clients now after seeing the difference. He gets why I used to go on my own time unpaid to do house calls.
 
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I just got a Royal Canin account approved last week but it may be because I am a specialist. I wonder if your job would qualify? Might be worth a call to their customer care line to ask if you feed RC.

Edit: I’ve used Chewy’s pharmacy because they carry a wider range of products than where I did my residency. Derm wanted us to use bravecto but Winston’s IBD meant we needed a topical and Chewy carried topical bravecto. I have ordered supplies (crates, beds, etc.) from them several times but since they ship via FedEx, I have a horrible time getting my Chewy packages. Nearly every package they send me has to get shipped a second time, which seems awful for their bottom line.

Interesting I have not had any issue receiving packages (knocks on wood). I have only ordered from them twice now so that might change.

Right now I use Purina and they were total bleepity bleep bleepers about how "I don't count" as a veterinary professional and can't order from them. If my cat wasn't already on their food and doing so damn well, I'd try to find something else.
 
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Yeah, I am going to admit I have started to order cat food and litter from Chewy as well. Sad, because I would order directly from Purina, Hill's, or Royal Canin but they only allow veterinary professionals in clinical medicine to order directly from them.

Kind of a bad way to present yourself to someone who does still occasionally recommend your foods despite not being in clinical medicine.

Take on one relief shift at a practice you know and order purina?
 
You know, they annoy me on the vet side of things.

BUT, I can see why people love them. I ordered a couple cases of cat food for my dying kitten with special dietary needs (per nutritionist needed very specific OTC diets I couldn’t find on the shelf anywhere). So I ordered from chewy and he died the day it arrived. It was like $75 of cat food I didn’t need since all my other cats are on Rx diets, so I emailed them and asked if I could “return” it because he died and attached a picture. They actually had a person email back expressing their sincere condolences, and per their usual policy told us to donate it but gave us a full refund.

Then a few weeks later, they also sent me a beautiful oil painting on canvas of my kitten from the picture with a sympathy card. I felt kinda bad because I’d literally spent $0 with them and they’d essentially given me $75 of cat food plus free shipping. It would explain how they are operating at a loss in hopes of recouping later. I ended up starting to order cat litter from them at the start of the stay at home order because of this.

they sent flowers to a client of ours who lost her dog. Their customer service is excellent...I love that you call them and when it rings a human just picks up without like 15 menu options.
 
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Look, I wasn't trying to start an argument. I think we all can agree that at the very least the situation isn't ideal. These types of discussions are important in order for things to change and improve. However, let's not be patronizing because "I only work on a farm."... I never claimed to be some sort of expert, and I am not apologizing for caring about the welfare of pigs. (& I agree, needy people deserve meat that has been properly processed and inspected btw).

I wasn’t trying to be patrionizing, just bringing up that you don’t seem to be understanding how pig operations work given the unrealistic comments you’ve been making about how you think things should have gone. You yourself brought up the fact that you work on a farm to bring credence to your opinions. Vertically integrated poultry and swine operations are very different from other types of farming, and can’t be compared. That’s all I was trying to say. I apologize if it came off the wrong way.

No one is asking you to apologize for caring about the welfare of pigs. But it does peeve me that you seem to think that just because others are not playing the blame game that we don’t care. We are all gut wrenched about this. Like I said in the very beginning, this was not humane. Those pigs deserved better. BUT, I can’t think of and have not heard anyone else come up with a better solution for the present issue. And therefore, I’m not going to condemn the people involved. That does not make me less caring.
 
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I agree that Chewy is a good company; I sent them feedback saying that I didn't feel the current promotions were up to their pet care standards and I hope they can do better in the future.

We order our food directly from royal canin because it's cheaper, but I still buy pretty much all the rest of my pet supplies (litter, fish stuff, many many cat toys) from Chewy because of their excellent customer service and generally good pricing.
 
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Feeling like such a dingus today and just need to vent. I’ve been feeling super stressed tying to sell a house, getting ready to move next month, and working ridiculous hours to squirrel away as much money as possible before I start school (I’ve worked since I was 16 so losing my income is super stressful for me). And my husband is overseas and it looks like I won’t see him for a full year due to COVID :(

Anyway, today I was leaving work in my husband’s truck and backed into a kennel tech’s car, denting her bumper. She had parked behind me (not in a spot) and I didn’t see her little car. Of course I felt bad so I went inside, told her what happened, and told her to get an estimate on the repair and I’d pay her cash. About 2 hours later I get a call from a receptionist to come to the hospital because the girl’s mom was filing a police report and they needed to speak with me. So now I don’t only feel bad ... I feel mortified that everyone knows. The cop was cool and told the woman not to file a police report over a dented bumper when he had me on body cam saying exactly what happened.

I can’t guys. I just can’t. My Garmin has sent me literally 3 “relax reminders” today :oops:
 
Feeling like such a dingus today and just need to vent. I’ve been feeling super stressed tying to sell a house, getting ready to move next month, and working ridiculous hours to squirrel away as much money as possible before I start school (I’ve worked since I was 16 so losing my income is super stressful for me). And my husband is overseas and it looks like I won’t see him for a full year due to COVID :(

Anyway, today I was leaving work in my husband’s truck and backed into a kennel tech’s car, denting her bumper. She had parked behind me (not in a spot) and I didn’t see her little car. Of course I felt bad so I went inside, told her what happened, and told her to get an estimate on the repair and I’d pay her cash. About 2 hours later I get a call from a receptionist to come to the hospital because the girl’s mom was filing a police report and they needed to speak with me. So now I don’t only feel bad ... I feel mortified that everyone knows. The cop was cool and told the woman not to file a police report over a dented bumper when he had me on body cam saying exactly what happened.

I can’t guys. I just can’t. My Garmin has sent me literally 3 “relax reminders” today :oops:

Nooooo Engr that sucks so bad! Ugh that's awful that they couldn't just resolve it like normal functioning adults. Just keep swimming, you're so close!
 
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Feeling like such a dingus today and just need to vent. I’ve been feeling super stressed tying to sell a house, getting ready to move next month, and working ridiculous hours to squirrel away as much money as possible before I start school (I’ve worked since I was 16 so losing my income is super stressful for me). And my husband is overseas and it looks like I won’t see him for a full year due to COVID :(

Anyway, today I was leaving work in my husband’s truck and backed into a kennel tech’s car, denting her bumper. She had parked behind me (not in a spot) and I didn’t see her little car. Of course I felt bad so I went inside, told her what happened, and told her to get an estimate on the repair and I’d pay her cash. About 2 hours later I get a call from a receptionist to come to the hospital because the girl’s mom was filing a police report and they needed to speak with me. So now I don’t only feel bad ... I feel mortified that everyone knows. The cop was cool and told the woman not to file a police report over a dented bumper when he had me on body cam saying exactly what happened.

I can’t guys. I just can’t. My Garmin has sent me literally 3 “relax reminders” today :oops:

why did she need to get the police involved? even if she wanted to turn it into insurance, the doesn't require a police presence, esp if you went in and admitted to it
 
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why did she need to get the police involved? even if she wanted to turn it into insurance, the doesn't require a police presence, esp if you went in and admitted to it
She’s in high school and her mom works for the city. The girl was so embarrassed. The cop talked her out of filing a police report, thankfully, because it’s literally just a dent to her bumper.
 
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She’s in high school and her mom works for the city. The girl was so embarrassed. The cop talked her out of filing a police report, thankfully, because it’s literally just a dent to her bumper.

ahhh twas a mom thing. sorry you had a rough day!
 
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@EngrSC a kennel tech at work’s mom side swiped my car at work one day when she came to pick her daughter up. The girl came to me sobbing and apologizing non-stop. It’s an old 2002 Tahoe and I was like eh just forget it. My awesome tech buffed out the scratch on his lunch break for me (Didn’t even ask!) and you can’t even tell. Karma.
 
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@EngrSC a kennel tech at work’s mom side swiped my car at work one day when she came to pick her daughter up. The girl came to me sobbing and apologizing non-stop. It’s an old 2002 Tahoe and I was like eh just forget it. My awesome tech buffed out the scratch on his lunch break for me (Didn’t even ask!) and you can’t even tell. Karma.

Thanks for this :love:
I feel so awful!
 
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