RANT HERE thread

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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My fiancee got laid off due to covid today.

I was pretty sure his position would be not-layoffable.

I have no idea if we can financially make this work.
 
SARdoghandler said:
My fiancee got laid off due to covid today.

I was pretty sure his position would be not-layoffable.

I have no idea if we can financially make this work.
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No real words for it, but just want to say I completely sympathize. My fiance is likely going to be in a similar situation soon and things are really scary right now. If you ever want to vent or talk, my PM box is open. Sorry I cant offer more than that. 🙁
 
finnickthedog said:
Anxiety is stupid. I accidentally poked myself with a clean needle today and I know perfectly well there's no reason to be concerned about it. And yet my brain keeps inventing horrible scenarios by which I get horrible disease and die. What gives, brain? Why are you doing this?
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Chuckling because I poked myself with the needle on a full syringe a few months ago. I had two drugs drawn up so I checked the label. "Oh, it was the hydro... no worries, I take that!" And carried on.
 
sheltermed said:
not really a rant but like

I told this person on a dating app that I'm going to vet school in the fall, and they responded with "oh cool, so you want to be a vet?" and i was like "nah, I just want the student debt"

SO YOU WANT TO BE A VET???????????????????
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little update: they responded with "hey you never know, some people do that to work at zoos and stuff"

o_o
 
sheltermed said:
little update: they responded with "hey you never know, some people do that to work at zoos and stuff"

o_o
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1F596712-7409-4D15-AB16-A0C0CF18D701.png
 
finnickthedog said:
Anxiety is stupid. I accidentally poked myself with a clean needle today and I know perfectly well there's no reason to be concerned about it. And yet my brain keeps inventing horrible scenarios by which I get horrible disease and die. What gives, brain? Why are you doing this?
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i cannot count the number of times i have poked myself with a syringe while attempting to vaccinate wiggly dog. my fingers are fantastic at bleeding, so it very quickly looks like a murder scene if i do nothing about it, and most of the time i'm trying to have a conversation with the owner while keeping them from noticing that i'm dripping blood. it's worse if it's the first of 2 or 3 vaccines and I have to try not to bleed on the pet while still touching it to give more injections.
 
genny said:
i cannot count the number of times i have poked myself with a syringe while attempting to vaccinate wiggly dog. my fingers are fantastic at bleeding, so it very quickly looks like a murder scene if i do nothing about it, and most of the time i'm trying to have a conversation with the owner while keeping them from noticing that i'm dripping blood. it's worse if it's the first of 2 or 3 vaccines and I have to try not to bleed on the pet while still touching it to give more injections.
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A very happy vizsla stabbed himself in the lip on my needle during a quick flu vaccine once. It took longer to make it stop bleeding than the entire appointment :laugh: there was blood everywhere!
 
@Elkhart Have you talked to your supervisor about the way you’re feeling? I think your concerns are valid but if everyone is that busy they may not be aware of the problems you’re dealing with. It’s easy to focus on ourselves and our own job when things get crazy. I don’t think it’s good to stay in a job that isn’t a good fit, but maybe they can help either reassure you you’re doing well and being a help to the team or develop a plan with you to move forward where you don’t feel quite as lost.
 
Elkhart said:
I know I'm likely annoying people by having to ask for help when they're swamped, too.
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No. You are new at this job, which means you get to ask for help a lot. So take that off your worry plate. Along with the worry about taking too long to complete stuff. They are probably very very happy to have the help in a crisis.

As for the routine and structure craving - I think that's a valid concern for you to have about this job. This public health crisis will pass, but there's probably a new one coming at some unpredictable time, which means things will become non-routine and less structured again in the future.
 
Was told today to not come in on my Radiology days anymore until told otherwise since I'm not essential on those days 🙁 Time for a new hobby I can do at home I guess.
 
JaynaAli said:
@Elkhart Have you talked to your supervisor about the way you’re feeling? I think your concerns are valid but if everyone is that busy they may not be aware of the problems you’re dealing with. It’s easy to focus on ourselves and our own job when things get crazy. I don’t think it’s good to stay in a job that isn’t a good fit, but maybe they can help either reassure you you’re doing well and being a help to the team or develop a plan with you to move forward where you don’t feel quite as lost.
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genny said:
No. You are new at this job, which means you get to ask for help a lot. So take that off your worry plate. Along with the worry about taking too long to complete stuff. They are probably very very happy to have the help in a crisis.

As for the routine and structure craving - I think that's a valid concern for you to have about this job. This public health crisis will pass, but there's probably a new one coming at some unpredictable time, which means things will become non-routine and less structured again in the future.
Click to expand...
Thanks, guys. My supervisor talked with me today and told me that he thinks I’m a badass (his words, not mine) and that I’ve been doing an amazing job considering that I am new, I’ve been going through a lot of changes both personally and professionally, and that we’re in largely uncharted waters here. He and a couple other people also (gently) forced me to take a break and eat, despite the time-crunch I had going on, and made sure I actually got to leave on time today, which was super appreciated.

I’ve calmed down a bit and am doing better. Still feeling sort of off, but I think that’s due to my hormones being out of whack right now. Will be calling my doctor tomorrow about getting another prescription since it’s been long enough since my last injection that my lab values would probably be worthless, anyway.
 
Elkhart said:
Thanks, guys. My supervisor talked with me today and told me that he thinks I’m a badass (his words, not mine) and that I’ve been doing an amazing job considering that I am new, I’ve been going through a lot of changes both personally and professionally, and that we’re in largely uncharted waters here. He and a couple other people also (gently) forced me to take a break and eat, despite the time-crunch I had going on and made sure I actually got to leave on time today, which was super appreciated.

I’ve calmed down a bit and feel better. Still feeling sort of off, but I think that’s due to my hormones being out of whack right now. Will be calling my doctor tomorrow about getting another prescription since it’s been long enough since my last injection that my lab values would probably be worthless, anyway.
Click to expand...

A little appreciation goes a long way!

Glad your feeling more positive!
 
Elkhart said:
Never mind; feeling better now.
Click to expand...

I was just about to reply to you... Glad you are feeling better! Eventually, when you have enough experience under your belt, there will be routine and structure even in a crisis situation because you will know exactly what you're doing and you will be good at it.

Don't sweat it right now - you've had an unprecedentedly rough start to your new job. Contribute where you can - I'm sure your office is grateful to have you. 🙂
 
You've got this @Elkhart . It's always tough starting public health jobs in the middle of a crisis, and this isn't even a run-of-the-mill crisis, this is a damn pandemic. You're doing great managing a huge transition and I'm glad your boss and coworkers are recognizing that.

Take some time to shut off and take time to yourself when you get off the clock. No COVID-19 news, no checking about it on Facebook, nothing. Even if it's just for 15-30 mins, it'll help a ton with keeping your mind from tugging at this 24/7 and hopefully help you find more peace and balance during a tough time.

I'm sorry about having a hard time getting your meds - hopefully your doctor will get back to you with getting them soon. I would be sure to express as well that part of why you struggle to get this blood test done right now (on top of everything else) is because you are a responder for this outbreak. Hopefully they will recognize the good work you're doing and help expedite your meds getting to you.
 
vetmedhead said:
You've got this @Elkhart . It's always tough starting public health jobs in the middle of a crisis, and this isn't even a run-of-the-mill crisis, this is a damn pandemic. You're doing great managing a huge transition and I'm glad your boss and coworkers are recognizing that.

Take some time to shut off and take time to yourself when you get off the clock. No COVID-19 news, no checking about it on Facebook, nothing. Even if it's just for 15-30 mins, it'll help a ton with keeping your mind from tugging at this 24/7 and hopefully help you find more peace and balance during a tough time.

I'm sorry about having a hard time getting your meds - hopefully your doctor will get back to you with getting them soon. I would be sure to express as well that part of why you struggle to get this blood test done right now (on top of everything else) is because you are a responder for this outbreak. Hopefully they will recognize the good work you're doing and help expedite your meds getting to you.
Click to expand...
By the way @Elkhart , if anxiety is keeping you from sleeping at night, consider taking some melatonin before you sleep or getting in touch with your psychiatrist about other options to help you get to sleep at night. I know how much worse it gets when routines and sleep especially are disrupted. Take care of yourself and don't be afraid to reach out if you want to commiserate about it with someone else.
 
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Called my doctor and left a long message explaining the situation. Unfortunately, it looks like the clinic has severely reduced its hours to 8-5 on one day per week only and I couldn’t make it to an appointment even if they were available within a reasonable timeframe. Really, really hoping that she’ll be willing to send in a new one to my pharmacy sooner rather than later, but keeping expectations low. 🙁
 
Elkhart said:
Called my doctor and left a long message explaining the situation. Unfortunately, it looks like the clinic has severely reduced its hours to 8-5 on one day per week only and I couldn’t make it to an appointment even if they were available within a reasonable timeframe. Really, really hoping that she’ll be willing to send in a new one to my pharmacy sooner rather than later, but keeping expectations low. 🙁
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed for you. Maybe they can do a quick telehealth appointment? I know there’s a push for them instead of standard ones. Or at least refill your meds for a couple months until things hopefully calm down.
 
that redhead said:
There was one random person I told I was in vet school and I guess they thought I said "vend school"? And they were like, "...to work on vending machines or something?" 🤣 Yes, that's exactly the career path I am taking and there's a specific educational program for it too.
Click to expand...
"Yeah, you can call me Dr. Pepper"
 
Please don't quote --

My husband's younger brother (college aged kid) was just hospitalized for pneumonia due to presumptive covid-19.

He has had some episodes of respiratory compromise in the past, and their dad is over 70. And, he just traveled through two airports in the US like 2 days ago coming home from school.

I'm really worried right now 🙁

Update: based on phone/text conversations with brother, he's doing ok in the hospital right now and is mostly just bored/lonely
 
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As if the pandemic ravaging through the country wasn’t terrifying enough, I’m terrified for masses who are getting laid off and losing their health insurance who are paycheck to paycheck to begin with, and secondarily I’m terrified of the impending recession.

I don’t want to be a Debbie downer, but for those who have a choice right now, I would seriously rethink enrolling in a super expensive vet school especially the new schools with zero to negative reputation. The last recession was horrible for vets, especially new grads. Look back at the posts in 2009-2014 ish. It was terrible. Once clients have 0 money to spend on their pets, I think the perceived vet shortage will go away real fast as all the clinics who have been dying for associates will no longer be needing them. I’m already seeing clients electing euthanasia or just symptomatic care without diagnostics for their sick pet that may or may not be treatable because “I just got laid off today.” This time around, the number of graduating vets per year is going to be much higher. I remember one job interview when I was told straight up, “the last time I needed to hire an associate 6 years ago, I would have absolutely hired you. But this time around, I have 20 applicants with experience so I will not be offering a spot to a new grad. I’m really sorry.” When it’s that competitive, I’m pretty sure that there will be serious discrimination for those coming out of these new programs. I think it would be naive to think otherwise, no matter how much the school tells you that they are just as good as any other school because of accreditation.
 
Minnerbelle said:
As if the pandemic ravaging through the country wasn’t terrifying enough, I’m terrified for masses who are getting laid off and losing their health insurance who are paycheck to paycheck to begin with, and secondarily I’m terrified of the impending recession.

I don’t want to be a Debbie downer, but for those who have a choice right now, I would seriously rethink enrolling in a super expensive vet school especially the new schools with zero to negative reputation. The last recession was horrible for vets, especially new grads. Look back at the posts in 2009-2014 ish. It was terrible. Once clients have 0 money to spend on their pets, I think the perceived vet shortage will go away real fast as all the clinics who have been dying for associates will no longer be needing them. I’m already seeing clients electing euthanasia or just symptomatic care without diagnostics for their sick pet that may or may not be treatable because “I just got laid off today.” This time around, the number of graduating vets per year is going to be much higher. I remember one job interview when I was told straight up, “the last time I needed to hire an associate 6 years ago, I would have absolutely hired you. But this time around, I have 20 applicants with experience so I will not be offering a spot to a new grad. I’m really sorry.” When it’s that competitive, I’m pretty sure that there will be serious discrimination for those coming out of these new programs. I think it would be naive to think otherwise, no matter how much the school tells you that they are just as good as any other school because of accreditation.
Click to expand...

this post gives me so much anxiety
 
mmmdreamerz said:
this post gives me so much anxiety
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I feel especially bad for the 2021 class. You get the brunt of all of the uncertainty including what will happen to your clinical training. So sorry this situation sucks so badly all around.
 
Minnerbelle said:
I feel especially bad for the 2021 class. You get the brunt of all of the uncertainty including what will happen to your clinical training. So sorry this situation sucks so badly all around.
Click to expand...

Honestly, haven’t once doubted through the entirety of vet school that I made the right decision...until this week
 
mmmdreamerz said:
Honestly, haven’t once doubted through the entirety of vet school that I made the right decision...until this week
Click to expand...
You still did.

This blows, and our class is going to get the worst of it I think, but I strongly believe it will all be ok in the end.

Even if nothing else, we have medical training and can assist in a public health crisis, so that in of itself may be valuable in the near future.
 
Minnerbelle said:
I feel especially bad for the 2021 class. You get the brunt of all of the uncertainty including what will happen to your clinical training. So sorry this situation sucks so badly all around.
Click to expand...

I'll give props to 2020 at Illinois for not being as fatalistic about this situation to people in my class. They originally had their final rotation block extended by a week and we never stopped hearing about it. But this, they've been pretty cool about it.
 
PippyPony said:
You still did.

This blows, and our class is going to get the worst of it I think, but I strongly believe it will all be ok in the end.

Even if nothing else, we have medical training and can assist in a public health crisis, so that in of itself may be valuable in the near future.
Click to expand...

A concerning aspect to me right now is that there isn’t a clear plan for returning to normal activities yet, so this could go on indefinitely. If things don’t improve, I hope that schools are creating some kind of mechanism to postpone clinical year that will keep students supported but allow them to pursue other activities, whether that’s some kind of work or other degree program that is better suited to a virtual learning environment.

I know for me personally, there may come a point where I’ll feel that my training in vet med is not progressing acceptably and that my education and experience as an epidemiologist will be of greater immediate importance to society. I’m kind of feeling that a little bit now, honestly. It’s been hard working from home on assignments for classes that were “fun electives” a month ago, but now seem rather frivolous and unimportant.
 
PippyPony said:
Even if nothing else, we have medical training and can assist in a public health crisis, so that in of itself may be valuable in the near future.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what a small animal veterinarian is supposed to do in this crisis that is of value... if anything I think it’s abominable that many of us are still using up valuable PPE and medical supplies for elective procedures on dogs/cats.
 
PippyPony said:
You still did.

This blows, and our class is going to get the worst of it I think, but I strongly believe it will all be ok in the end.

Even if nothing else, we have medical training and can assist in a public health crisis, so that in of itself may be valuable in the near future.
Click to expand...

I think by the end of the day I’m tired and pretty negative about the whole situation...constant news and social media doesn’t help. Easier to be positive in the morning after some sleep.
 
I just learned that someone who is incredibly important to me and has been a major part of my life since I was 9 or 10 is in hospice care, and I feel like I just got punched in the gut.

We face-timed for over an hour this morning, but I don't think there's any way that I'll get to see her in person again given the current global situation.

I feel like I can't breathe.
 
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Minnerbelle said:
I’m not sure what a small animal veterinarian is supposed to do in this crisis that is of value...
Click to expand...
I mean...

- Continue to provide emergency care for pets and consider telemedicine for management of ongoing conditions, since during a sustained period of social isolation, the human-animal bond may provide much needed emotional support and structure to the lives of millions of people. There was an uplifting article in the NYT the other day about how animal fostering has surged in recent weeks as people seek out companionship at home.

- Offer emotional support to the human medical community, who are on the precipice of making brutal decisions they have likely not had to make in human health care. As doctors who deal with decisions surrounding life and death on a daily basis and who are trained to consider population health, veterinarians may be the best people to understand the compassion fatigue that is already sweeping across Italy and Spain as doctors are forced to decide which patients to save. So reach out to your human med friends and lend an empathetic ear to their fears and sadness.

- Emphasize the need to follow the guidance of the CDC and WHO, and help family and friends by interpreting the medical basis behind many of these measures and reiterating why it is important.

- Use veterinary medical knowledge to effectively triage our own patients and conserve PPE and equipment where we can, in as safe a manner as possible.

- Those of us with a background in public health, epidemiology, research, and lab animal medicine should be prepared to step up in the event that this pandemic continues to ravage the globe at the same rate, thereby decreasing the availability of people who are currently working in those roles. Not to be a fearmonger, but just because COVID-19 exists doesn't mean other diseases agreed to stop infecting people and animals for the time being. So if labs & public health workers are diverted to working on this at a national level, maybe there is something we could do to fill the positions/projects they are leaving behind.

- In a true state of emergency, veterinarians of all subfields are valuable assets because we have at least a basic level of training in incident command, public health, and infection control. We understand what PPE is important, how to maintain sterile fields, how to clean and sterilize equipment, and how to act as leaders of a team. There is discussion amongst our class to offer to help local hospitals/temporary quarantine areas by cleaning/restocking/setting up infectious disease wards if this continues to a point where our human medical colleagues (including nurses, hospital aides, cleaning staff) reach a point of exhaustion and need a break. We obviously can't be the doctors, but we do have medical training and are more knowledgeable, efficient, and safe in medical settings than an average person would likely be.

So, just some ideas. This doesn't even touch on the role of large animal vets at a time like this, when food safety is a paramount concern. And even small animal vets know some things about other species/fields -- I've heard enough of you talk about what you remember from the NAVLE to know that you could dust off that knowledge and beef it up if you truly needed to 😉

Overall, I do think we have a lot of value to provide.
 
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PippyPony said:
I mean...

- Continue to provide emergency care for pets and consider telemedicine for management of ongoing conditions, since during a sustained period of social isolation, the human-animal bond may provide much needed emotional support and structure to the lives of millions of people. There was an uplifting article in the NYT the other day about how animal fostering has surged in recent weeks as people seek out companionship at home.

- Offer emotional support to the human medical community, who are on the precipice of making brutal decisions they have likely not had to make in human health care. As doctors who deal with decisions surrounding life and death on a daily basis and who are trained to consider population health, veterinarians may be the best people to understand the compassion fatigue that is already sweeping across Italy and Spain as doctors are forced to decide which patients to save. So reach out to your human med friends and lend an empathetic ear to their fears and sadness.

- Emphasize the need to follow the guidance of the CDC and WHO, and help family and friends by interpreting the medical basis behind many of these measures and reiterating why it is important.

- Use veterinary medical knowledge to effectively triage our own patients and conserve PPE and equipment where we can, in as safe a manner as possible.

- Those of us with a background in public health, epidemiology, research, and lab animal medicine should be prepared to step up in the event that this pandemic continues to ravage the globe at the same rate, thereby decreasing the availability of people who are currently working in those roles. Not to be a fearmonger, but just because COVID-19 exists doesn't mean other diseases agreed to stop infecting people and animals for the time being. So if labs & public health workers are diverted to working on this at a national level, maybe there is something we could do to fill the positions/projects they are leaving behind.

- In a true state of emergency, veterinarians of all subfields are valuable assets because we have at least a basic level of training in incident command, public health, and infection control. We understand what PPE is important, how to maintain sterile fields, how to clean and sterilize equipment, and how to act as leaders of a team. There is discussion amongst our class to offer to help local hospitals/temporary quarantine areas by cleaning/restocking/setting up infectious disease wards if this continues to a point where our human medical colleagues (including nurses, hospital aides, cleaning staff) reach a point of exhaustion and need a break. We obviously can't be the doctors, but we do have medical training and are more knowledgeable, efficient, and safe in medical settings than an average person would likely be.

So, just some ideas. This doesn't even touch on the role of large animal vets at a time like this, when food safety is a paramount concern. And even small animal vets know some things about other species/fields -- I've heard enough of you talk about what you remember from the NAVLE to know that you could dust off that knowledge and beef it up if you truly needed to 😉

Overall, I do think we have a lot of value to provide.
Click to expand...
Over here in animal control world we are also taking animals owned by COVID-19 victims and housing +/- rehoming them (based on whether the person leaves the hospital...) while they are being treated. Also continuing to do bite and rabies control, plus working with health department to send our PPE their way as necessary
 
Minnerbelle said:
I’m not sure what a small animal veterinarian is supposed to do in this crisis that is of value... if anything I think it’s abominable that many of us are still using up valuable PPE and medical supplies for elective procedures on dogs/cats.
Click to expand...

I also question at what point we are going to have to stop the whole no "non-emergency" appointments. I mean, yes, for the next few weeks that is probably ok, but we can't indefinitely stop spaying and neutering animals (increases certain health risks to keep them intact after a certain age). Can't be leaving ear infections hanging about forever. Eye issues can't wait forever. So on and so forth. There are many things that aren't emergencies but they can't wait. I'd argue with puppy/kitten season coming we can't just not vaccinate these young animals.

At some point, our field is going to have to recognize that we still have to take care of the animals too. This is definitely not a straightforward answer. Yes, PPE definitely needs to be conserved for human medicine right now. But the last predictions I have read from actual epidemiologists and experts in pandemics are saying we are looking at 18 months of this at minimum and we can't stop basic animal care for that extended length of time.

I've also heard of canceling of things like TPLOs, etc and while, yes, that is "elective" waiting for 18 months to do a TPLO is going to make a TPLO rather useless by then.
 
PippyPony said:
I mean...

- Continue to provide emergency care for pets and consider telemedicine for management of ongoing conditions, since during a sustained period of social isolation, the human-animal bond may provide much needed emotional support and structure to the lives of millions of people. There was an uplifting article in the NYT the other day about how animal fostering has surged in recent weeks as people seek out companionship at home.

- Offer emotional support to the human medical community, who are on the precipice of making brutal decisions they have likely not had to make in human health care. As doctors who deal with decisions surrounding life and death on a daily basis and who are trained to consider population health, veterinarians may be the best people to understand the compassion fatigue that is already sweeping across Italy and Spain as doctors are forced to decide which patients to save. So reach out to your human med friends and lend an empathetic ear to their fears and sadness.

- Emphasize the need to follow the guidance of the CDC and WHO, and help family and friends by interpreting the medical basis behind many of these measures and reiterating why it is important.

- Use veterinary medical knowledge to effectively triage our own patients and conserve PPE and equipment where we can, in as safe a manner as possible.

- Those of us with a background in public health, epidemiology, research, and lab animal medicine should be prepared to step up in the event that this pandemic continues to ravage the globe at the same rate, thereby decreasing the availability of people who are currently working in those roles. Not to be a fearmonger, but just because COVID-19 exists doesn't mean other diseases agreed to stop infecting people and animals for the time being. So if labs & public health workers are diverted to working on this at a national level, maybe there is something we could do to fill the positions/projects they are leaving behind.

- In a true state of emergency, veterinarians of all subfields are valuable assets because we have at least a basic level of training in incident command, public health, and infection control. We understand what PPE is important, how to maintain sterile fields, how to clean and sterilize equipment, and how to act as leaders of a team. There is discussion amongst our class to offer to help local hospitals/temporary quarantine areas by cleaning/restocking/setting up infectious disease wards if this continues to a point where our human medical colleagues (including nurses, hospital aides, cleaning staff) reach a point of exhaustion and need a break. We obviously can't be the doctors, but we do have medical training and are more knowledgeable, efficient, and safe in medical settings than an average person would likely be.

So, just some ideas. This doesn't even touch on the role of large animal vets at a time like this, when food safety is a paramount concern. And even small animal vets know some things about other species/fields -- I've heard enough of you talk about what you remember from the NAVLE to know that you could dust off that knowledge and beef it up if you truly needed to 😉

Overall, I do think we have a lot of value to provide.
Click to expand...

that’s all nice and lofty, but let’s be real... we are very much NOT real doctors at all in these contexts and whatever we deal with life/death wise does not compare at all to what the medical community is dealing with right now. My best friends are MDs in the trenches and they do not need me to give them a pep talk about how to deal with life/death decisions.

those in lab animal/research are even less helpful and the most help they can provide is honestly to stop what they’re doing and just divert resources to the human medical field. I can tell you that is exactly my PhD husband is being ordered to do at the medical school he works at. The only people actually helpful are those who are actually doing active research on the subject matter. It’s not like rando scientists can just switch gears and help.

yes large animal and USDA/CDC and possibly army vets may be more important than ever right now (though really mostly just to keep doing their regular jobs), but this idea of your everyday veterinarian swooping in to save the day is not as vet schools make it out to be.
 
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