Quantcast
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3

Members don't see this ad.
I applied for a Vet Tech full-time positions which says they'll train. The Vet asked me if I'd be willing to volunteer for a while before being hired.

I don't have Vet experience. It seems certification isn't required in Florida.

I'm guessing it's unpaid. Not sure how different it is from a regular job but said I'd gain experience from it.

How different is it from shadowing or sounds like the same? About how many hours is volunteering?
 
Last edited:

dyachei

vet robot pirate zombie
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
15+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
25,550
Reaction score
20,178
I applied for a Vet Tech full-time positions which says they'll train. The Vet asked me if I'd be willing to volunteer for a while before being hired.

I don't have Vet experience. It seems certification isn't required in Florida.

I'm guessing it's unpaid. Not sure how different it is from a regular job but said I'd gain experience.

How different is it from shadowing or sounds like the same?
Ask if it's paid or unpaid. Shadowing implies that you don't actually touch anything, you just observe. Being a tech will be more active.

I often allow shadows. I don't allow unpaid techs (in FL, too).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Cmmore15

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
119
Reaction score
86
I started volunteering at a vet clinic and within a year he offered my a full time paid position. I think it is totally worth volunteering for awhile as long as it is volunteering not just shadowing


KSU c/o 2020!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I started volunteering at a vet clinic and within a year he offered my a full time paid position. I think it is totally worth volunteering for awhile as long as it is volunteering not just shadowing


KSU c/o 2020!!!!

Vet refered to it as Volunteering. How was it like Volunteering?
 
Last edited:

futurevet3

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
91
Reaction score
33
I volunteered at my clinic for about a year before I was hired. My situation was a little different, as I had a graduate Fellowship that gave me a stipend so I was not allowed to have other employment. Even as a volunteer, I was able to do a lot of the same things the employed techs were doing. Since you don't have experience yet, volunteering is definitely something you should consider. Ask if you would be doing the same jobs as an employee, or if there would be restrictions on your job. Volunteering gets you started on getting those experience hours and let's you see what it is like to work at that clinic. Since you aren't employed, you wouldn't be tied down to that clinic if you decide it isn't a good fit for you.
TL;dr YES! Volunteer!!
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I volunteered at my clinic for about a year before I was hired. My situation was a little different, as I had a graduate Fellowship that gave me a stipend so I was not allowed to have other employment. Even as a volunteer, I was able to do a lot of the same things the employed techs were doing. Since you don't have experience yet, volunteering is definitely something you should consider. Ask if you would be doing the same jobs as an employee, or if there would be restrictions on your job. Volunteering gets you started on getting those experience hours and let's you see what it is like to work at that clinic. Since you aren't employed, you wouldn't be tied down to that clinic if you decide it isn't a good fit for you.
TL;dr YES! Volunteer!!

I'm guessing it's non-paid. With the job you'd sign a contract?
 

that redhead

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Contest Winner!
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
11,722
Reaction score
13,017
I would ask them all of these questions.

From your perspective, why volunteer when they say they will train new people? From their perspective, they're giving you experience and getting some free help but also leaving open the job position in case someone with more experience comes along. Either way you get the experience but I don't see why you shouldn't be paid something if they stated they were willing to train.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

futurevet3

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
91
Reaction score
33
I'm guessing it's non-paid. With the job you'd sign a contract?
I have never signed a contract with any job I have had, in a clinic or otherwise, but you would need to ask whast their policies are. I am just saying that volunteering gives you a bit of room to quit when and if you need/want to because you aren't being relied upon and paid to be there for a certain number of hours. If you absolutely need something that will pay you, then you should look elsewhere that will give you a definite yes on a paid position. If not, volunteering is a great opportunity for you to get started on experience hours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I would ask them all of these questions.

From your perspective, why volunteer when they say they will train new people? From their perspective, they're giving you experience and getting some free help but also leaving open the job position in case someone with more experience comes along. Either way you get the experience but I don't see why you shouldn't be paid something if they stated they were willing to train.

Should I ask this?
If yes, like this or how to rephrase it: Why shouldn't I be paid if the job advertisement for the Vet Technician position stated willing to train?
 

Jess Monster

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,149
I would suggest brushing up on federal labor laws first.

Then answer these questions:

Is this clinic affiliated with a government/public entity?
Is the clinic a registered non-profit (i.e. a 501(c)3)?
Will you be doing work that other employees are paid to do?
Will the clinic be deriving an immediate advantage from your work?

Depending on how you answer those questions will determine if the clinic is even legally allowed to use you for unpaid labor - that's irrespective of whatever title they might give you, "intern," "trainee," "volunteer," etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

that redhead

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Contest Winner!
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
11,722
Reaction score
13,017
Should I ask this?
If yes, like this or how to rephrase it: Why shouldn't I be paid if the job advertisement for the Vet Technician position stated willing to train?

If he has asked you if you'd be willing to volunteer, I would respond something along the lines of, "I would prefer to take the paid position if you're still willing to train me. However, I understand that training someone from scratch is less desirable than hiring someone with an-already established skill set and would be willing to volunteer to gain the experience." Or however else you want to word it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Cmmore15

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
119
Reaction score
86
Vet refered to it as Volunteering. How was it like Volunteering?
For the veterinarian I work for volunteering simply inferred that it was an unpaid learning position. He let me participate how ever I wanted to and taught me anything I wanted to know. It was his way of seeing what type of worker I was.


KSU c/o 2020!!!!
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I would suggest brushing up on federal labor laws first.

Then answer these questions:

Is this clinic affiliated with a government/public entity?
Is the clinic a registered non-profit (i.e. a 501(c)3)?
Will you be doing work that other employees are paid to do?
Will the clinic be deriving an immediate advantage from your work?

Depending on how you answer those questions will determine if the clinic is even legally allowed to use you for unpaid labor - that's irrespective of whatever title they might give you, "intern," "trainee," "volunteer," etc.

It's a small clinic so I imagine the answers to the first two questions are No. According to my research employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers.
 
Members don't see this ad :)

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
All volunteer opportunities are non-paid?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

twelvetigers

stabby cat
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
18,918
Reaction score
11,207
All volunteer opportunities are non-paid?

Per Merriam-Webster:

Full Definition of volunteer
  1. 1: a person who voluntarily undertakes or expresses a willingness to undertake a service: asa : one who enters into military service voluntarilyb (1) : one who renders a service or takes part in a transaction while having no legal concern or interest (2) : one who receives a conveyance or transfer of property without giving valuable consideration
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Jess Monster

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,149
It's a small clinic so I imagine the answers to the first two questions are No. According to my research employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers.

If you are performing the full duties of a vet tech at a private clinic, you're not a volunteer. You're an unpaid employee and you're entitled to wages. Failure to pay you for your services could open the clinic up to lawsuits and fines.

If they want you to come in to do unpaid training, that could be permissible under the law but there are specific criteria the clinic must meet and you must agree to in order for that arrangement to be legal.

These are the criteria from the Department of Labor that must ALL be met :
  1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment
  2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern
  3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff
  4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded
  5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship
  6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship
Based on what you've written, it sounds unlikely that the clinic would meet the third criterion and possibly one or two other.

Were I you, I would not accept to do this job on a volunteer basis. It's better to negotiate for a lower wage (assuming starting wages are not already minimum wage) to compensate for your lack of skills while you are being trained. It's mutually beneficial to do things that way. You get experience and a paycheck. The clinic gets cheap labor and doesn't break the law.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
Told the veterinarian I prefer the paid position but insists I volunteer. I'm considering contacting other clinics.

Can you suggest anything I should mention when contacting them?
 
Last edited:

battie

U. Illinois
7+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Messages
5,987
Reaction score
10,606
Told the veterinarian I prefer the paid position but insists I volunteer. I'm considering contacting other clinics.

Can you suggest anything I should mention when contacting them?

Look specifically for vet assistant or kennel technician positions. You can look up local job boards to see what positions are open. I used the job board on the local vet tech school's website.
 

pinkpuppy9

Tired DVM
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
5,605
Reaction score
3,938
Should I ask this?
If yes, like this or how to rephrase it: Why shouldn't I be paid if the job advertisement for the Vet Technician position stated willing to train?
If I'm understanding the situation correctly, my concern is that it really sounds you are being asked to complete your training off the books ("volunteering"), then potentially be hired once your training is finished. In my state, that would be illegal. There is an option to pay employees ages 16-19 half of the legal minimum wage during the first 90 days of employement (training), and minors 16-17 can be paid 85% of the legal minimum wage regardless of training status until they hit 18. Other than that, any time you are considered training, you are to be paid accordingly. If you are not under 19, you can't be paid less than minimum wage during training.

I'm trying not to generalize across the field here, but there are clinics out there that abuse the system/pre-vets who need experience and end up getting a lot of free labor out of it. That may not be this clinic's intentions, but it's something I always looked out for. Hell, one of my working interviews was about 6 hours long, and I did a lot of heavy cleaning. Never heard back, but I did hear from friends who applied for the same job that they all did the same thing. This also isn't a problem that is unique to vet med.

There's a difference between someone wanting you to volunteer so he/she can get to know you better before agreeing to hire you (which I still don't entirely agree with) and telling you to volunteer so you can learn the ropes before you are paid. The wording of the latter would probably be illegal. In general, unpaid work in vet clinics can be tricky legally and makes use of loopholes sometimes. Also, interns and volunteers aren't the same thing.

TL;DR-just be careful. If it feels wrong, it probably is.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
If I'm understanding the situation correctly, my concern is that it really sounds you are being asked to complete your training off the books ("volunteering"), then potentially be hired once your training is finished. In my state, that would be illegal. There is an option to pay employees ages 16-19 half of the legal minimum wage during the first 90 days of employement (training), and minors 16-17 can be paid 85% of the legal minimum wage regardless of training status until they hit 18. Other than that, any time you are considered training, you are to be paid accordingly. If you are not under 19, you can't be paid less than minimum wage during training.

I'm trying not to generalize across the field here, but there are clinics out there that abuse the system/pre-vets who need experience and end up getting a lot of free labor out of it. That may not be this clinic's intentions, but it's something I always looked out for. Hell, one of my working interviews was about 6 hours long, and I did a lot of heavy cleaning. Never heard back, but I did hear from friends who applied for the same job that they all did the same thing. This also isn't a problem that is unique to vet med.

There's a difference between someone wanting you to volunteer so he/she can get to know you better before agreeing to hire you (which I still don't entirely agree with) and telling you to volunteer so you can learn the ropes before you are paid. The wording of the latter would probably be illegal. In general, unpaid work in vet clinics can be tricky legally and makes use of loopholes sometimes. Also, interns and volunteers aren't the same thing.

TL;DR-just be careful. If it feels wrong, it probably is.
I'm in my 20's.. Vet basically said it's to get to know me better and to confirm if I can handle the work environment and watch how well I learn. The length depends on this and if I fit in with the team. Also, wants me to do an interview to verify if I'm a good match.

What's the differences between interns and volunteers?
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
If it's illegal I don't really want to volunteer. I'd be willing about a week. What do y'all think?

Wouldn't mind training for a week. I'm guessing volunteer schedule wouldn't be the same. I don't want / like the Kennel position and prefer Technician position vs Assistant. I want to do lab work and be more involved in the helping the pets. Also, because I can find higher paying jobs (not bragging).

The clinic is great and different.

A young High School girl at another clinic where I take my pets was new and the only helper for this one Veterinarian and she's always been a Vet Tech observing surgeries, etc.
 

pinkpuppy9

Tired DVM
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
5,605
Reaction score
3,938
I'm in my 20's.. Vet basically said it's to get to know me better and to confirm if I can handle the work environment and watch how well I learn. The length depends on this and if I fit in with the team. Also, wants me to do an interview to verify if I'm a good match.

What's the differences between interns and volunteers?
An intern is generally a student/recent student who is trying to develop skills in a specific field. Volunteering is not necessarily a way to develop your career or specific skills and moreso donating your time to a cause. There are more differences than that, but both can be exploited. If you want to get to the legal stuff, you can see if your state has any specific laws about interns/volunteers.

If it's just to get to know you, it might not be outright illegal. Like I said, I think 'volunteering' in a clinic can be borderline illegal in most cases, if not actually illegal in certain situations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
That's because I'm not a student at the moment...
In FL a certificate isn't required and I'm a quick learner who gets along with nearly everyone. I consider an interview should be enough and if they don't like me later on than I could be fired. FL is a state that doesn't require a reason to fire employees.

I'm looking for an employment and this said willing to train.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)

Minnerbelle

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
5,035
Training should still be paid. I would just say that you will accept a paid position and leave it at that, and see if they make an offer for whatever wage they want to offer and see if that's acceptable for you.

There is no reason to negotiate working free for a week or month or whatever. You shouldn't be working for free. If they insist on it, get it in writing, document it, and contact the labor board.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users

chickenlittle

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
312
Reaction score
152
Wouldn't mind training for a week. I'm guessing volunteer schedule wouldn't be the same. I don't want / like the Kennel position and prefer Technician position vs Assistant. I want to do lab work and be more involved in the helping the pets. Also, because I can find higher paying jobs (not bragging).

.....

A young High School girl at another clinic where I take my pets was new and the only helper for this one Veterinarian and she's always been a Vet Tech observing surgeries, etc.

Nobody wants to start in the kennel, but you have to start somewhere. My first veterinary job started off as 20 hrs/wk in the kennel, but once I proved myself I was working 50+ hrs/wk (yay overtime!) and also doing more vet assistant tasks. You have to start somewhere.

A clinic that employs only a single high school student is not somewhere that I would recommend working. That setup screams old-school and outdated practice model and is unlikely to provide a view into quality medicine. (Maybe I'm wrong, but I would consider it very unlikely!)
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
That clinic is one I've seen but now where I applied. I take my pets there but they are really good yet now your typical clinic because they have other more experience personal. I guess that's why they hired the extra help and taught her.

The clinic I'm talking about is a clinic and they focus on the dogs diet too not just their health and they also do acupuncture, etc. How should I tell them?

They are asking for an interview, and volunteering to get to know me, see if I'm competent, and notice if I fit with the team. All of that determines the length of volunteering according to them but if it's illegal I don't want to volunteer. How should I tell them this?

I'd rather be hired and fired if they don't like me. It's a full-time should I ask for a part-time?
What's your typical hourly vet technician rate?
 
Last edited:

Jess Monster

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,149
You never actually stated it, but are you interested in going to vet school in the future? Also, you mentioned that you're in your 20's and not a student at the moment, so do you have a degree or some college already under your belt even if unrelated to animal stuff?
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
You never actually stated it, but are you interested in going to vet school in the future? Also, you mentioned that you're in your 20's and not a student at the moment, so do you have a degree or some college already under your belt even if unrelated to animal stuff?

Yes, in the future but I want to work as a Vet Technician at the moment to determine since it's 7 years to become a Veterinarian. I'd like to become certified as a Vet Technician but I don't know if it's worth it. It's not a requirement in Florida. I'm considering enrolling into Biology...

I'm highly tech-savvy, and I have work experience but not in this field. I've volunteered in the past at non-profits with dogs.
 

Devastating

:ok_hand: 2022
2+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
1,601
Reaction score
1,525
Yes, in the future but I want to work as a Vet Technician at the moment to determine since it's 7 years to become a Veterinarian. I'd like to become certified as a Vet Technician but I don't know if it's worth it. It's not a requirement in Florida. I'm considering enrolling into Biology...

I'm highly tech-savvy, and I have work experience but not in this field. I've volunteered in the past at non-profits with dogs.
Actually, it only takes 4 years of vet school (assuming not pursuing an advanced specialty, I don't know much about that process though so someone else might explain that better). Unless you are counting undergraduate as part of that number, but even then a degree isn't required for vet school; you can begin applying once you have all the prerequisite courses for the school(s) of your choice, plus of course the additional required stuff like GRE and veterinary experience. If you were to enroll in the Biology department, you could begin working on those courses.

Becoming a certified/licensed Vet Tech is typically a totally separate process, so it's not recommended for someone to do this if you already know you are pursuing vet school. It would be an unnecessary extra step in that case, since it takes 2 years to complete most of those programs and I don't think those courses count towards vet school prerequisites, so not worth it. Working as a non-licensed tech/assistant like you are about to is perfectly fine for gaining vet experience and getting a feel for what the vet field is like. Of course if in the future you decide that you would rather be a Tech than pursue DVM, then becoming certified/licensed would be good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Cmmore15

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
119
Reaction score
86
When I was volunteering for the veterinary clinic it was in my spare time and I didn't have I set schedule. I could come and go as I pleased and participate in any way that I was capable and had the desire to do. It allowed me to hoan my skills and get to know the staff. For me it was a learning experience that I did while I was in school, and I was offered a position as soon as I could keep a regular schedule.
 
Last edited:

WildZoo

Noble Dubz Dictator, Unyeetable Phasing Wolf
Lifetime Donor
7+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
65,164
Reaction score
107,549
If they are expecting you to be there certain days of the week and at certain times then that is not volunteering, it is a job.
I wouldn't say that's true across the board...even actual non-profits sometimes expect their volunteers to stick to an actual schedule
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

katashark

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
2,875
Reaction score
3,175
Yeah or like volunteers for animal rehab. They don't want everyone on one day and no one the rest of the week. Volunteer shifts are definitely a thing. Zoos, science museums, pretty much anywhere you can volunteer, etc all have them.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Cmmore15

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
119
Reaction score
86
I take it back dang...
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)

Minnerbelle

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
5,035
True... That was too broad of an accusation. I suppose I meant that if there are consequences, like being fired or let go for being late or not being there due to an emergency then they were treating it like a job just not paying for it.


KSU c/o 2020!!!!

Volunteering has nothing to do with what is expected of you. Volunteers can so get fired for not being reliable.

It has to do with whether or not someone is taking advantage of you, and the answer is yes if it's for a for profit business., where you are expected to perform the duties of a paid person. That's wage theft.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
Volunteering has nothing to do with what is expected of you. Volunteers can so get fired for not being reliable.

It has to do with whether or not someone is taking advantage of you, and the answer is yes if it's for a for profit business., where you are expected to perform the duties of a paid person. That's wage theft.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I don't want to be taken advantage of.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
How could I get the job? What to tell them?

It's a full-time, should I ask for a part-time?
 

Minnerbelle

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
5,035
How could I get the job? What to tell them?

It's a full-time, should I ask for a part-time?

I think you need to stop negotiating this and that.

You just need to say that you are looking for full time paid employment, and you specifically applied to this job because they said they were willing to train. And see what they say. They either say no, we don't want to hire you unless you will work for free, in which you say **** you, and if you have sufficient evidence in writing file a labor board complaint. Or they say okay, we can offer $x per hour, and you can take it or leave it. If they say well we'll offer you a job after interviewing and training for free, I would say NO to that as well. If you want to do like a few days of working interview to see if it's a good fit, whatever, but I wouldn't do more than that without pay. You can offer to work for minimum wage during a predetermined (and set in writing) period of training time, and at that point they need to either fire you or officially hire you at a minimum of $x wage. Whatever it is you're willing to work for. Make sure everything is written out and explicit. None of this "we'll play it by ear, you'll be done training when we feel like it" business. Unless you're willing to work for minimum wage, that is. But no matter what, you should not be doing anything there without earning at least minimum wage.

It doesn't look like they have many options either way. Otherwise they wouldn't be playing this stupid game with you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
The wage wasn't shown in the job ad and I know it isn't professional to ask. How long of training do you all consider is appropriate?
I don't love the idea of offering minimum wage (FL $8.22) because I can earn better salary wise working another job (such as $15) yet minimum is better than non-paid and I'd be gaining experience / skills which is what I need. I heard the state minimum salary will raise next year to $10.

Do you mean in writing as in an e-mail or any time of document as evidence or do you mean something signed?

I haven't negotiated yet, want to send them a last plan to be offered pay hopefully. Thus far, it has sound like they want to go by ear.
 

pinkpuppy9

Tired DVM
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
5,605
Reaction score
3,938
The wage wasn't shown in the job ad and I know it isn't professional to ask. How long of training do you all consider is appropriate?
I don't love the idea of offering minimum wage (FL $8.22) because I can earn better salary wise working another job (such as $15) yet minimum is better than non-paid and I'd be gaining experience / skills which is what I need. I heard the state minimum salary will raise next year to $10.

Do you mean in writing as in an e-mail or any time of document as evidence or do you mean something signed?

I haven't negotiated yet, want to send them a last plan to be offered pay hopefully. Thus far, it has sound like they want to go by ear.
I guess it depends. Since you're going for a tech position and have no experience, it could be quite a while before you're flying solo. My vet assistant job had a 3 month training period. I imagine training a someone with no experience to be a tech can take considerably longer than that. The doctor may want you to watch hundreds of blood draws before you even try your first one. Same with catheter placements and other technical skills.

I also don't see why this clinic would want to pay you any more than minimum wage since you have absolutely no experience. There's nothing you can sell to them for a higher wage other than willingness to learn and a set of hands right now. Would you want to pay someone who has no clue how to do the job almost double the legal minimum? Chances are, you're going to have to work your way up in raises. You have no basis to ask for more than the minimum wage, especially since you're going for a tech position. You have no experience, you have no grounds for any negotiation whatsoever. I'd take the minimum wage if I were you and get used to being underpaid in veterinary medicine. To put things in perspective, I was working as an unlicensed tech with several years of experience and was getting $9.50 an hour. Also, I'm pretty sure the FL minimum wage is still $8.05, right? They didn't end up raising it I thought. Not a big deal, just wondering.

I believe Min is referring to your employment contract that would say "Your pay will start out at ____, then increase to ____ after your 6 month training period or when you can demonstrate you have completed your training." At least that's how I've seen things worded. You should be able to have a copy of that in addition to an employee handbook that would outline any training procedures you need to complete. This is assuming this clinic actually does all of these things...I worked at a very small clinic that had no such paperwork.

Just for future reference, every person with a job/applying for one should be very familiar with their state's labor laws. It's your responsibility to know when something illegal is happening, and you have to report that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Jess Monster

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,149
It's not unprofessional to ask what a job pays. A business should state what the pay is either on the job announcement or during the interview - whether they hire you or not. That's an important factor that impacts a job seeker's decision.
 

Minnerbelle

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
5,035
It's not unprofessional to ask what a job pays. A business should state what the pay is either on the job announcement or during the interview - whether they hire you or not. That's an important factor that impacts a job seeker's decision.
Yup. It's unprofessional for a business to not tell a prospective employee what their pay is going to be.

OP, just because you can earn $15/hr doing something else doesn't mean you can earn $15/hr as a vet assistant (and yes that's technically what you are even if they call you a tech because you are not licensed).

A fair wage is unfortunately based on supply and demand. They can demand to pay you as little as you are willing to take, that someone else is not willing to take. You can demand as high a pay from them as they're willing to give, but at a certain point they'll be able to hire someone more attractive with the same amount of money. Attractive as in either more experienced/better applicant or less demanding. It depends on the geographic location, as well as that particular practice culture where the sweet spot in asking wage will be. If licensed techs in your area are earning $15/hr then you're SOL. If this clinic has always had nonlicensed assistants and have always started out with free volunteers, you're probably SOL as well. Unless you want to be taken advantage of, you need to move on. If this clinic has never paid support staff over $12/hr even after years of service, you're also SOL. It helps to look at other job offers in your area for comparable positions and guesstimate based on that what a fair wage would be. The only way to know what they'll offer for sure is for you to state for them what you are willing/not willing to do and ask them to make a formal offer.

Honestly if I were in your situation, I'd walk away because this place sounds shady as hell. But that's up to you. How picky you can be depends a bit on how many other opportunities are open to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 

dyachei

vet robot pirate zombie
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
15+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
25,550
Reaction score
20,178
Yup. It's unprofessional for a business to not tell a prospective employee what their pay is going to be.

OP, just because you can earn $15/hr doing something else doesn't mean you can earn $15/hr as a vet assistant (and yes that's technically what you are even if they call you a tech because you are not licensed).

A fair wage is unfortunately based on supply and demand. They can demand to pay you as little as you are willing to take, that someone else is not willing to take. You can demand as high a pay from them as they're willing to give, but at a certain point they'll be able to hire someone more attractive with the same amount of money. Attractive as in either more experienced/better applicant or less demanding. It depends on the geographic location, as well as that particular practice culture where the sweet spot in asking wage will be. If licensed techs in your area are earning $15/hr then you're SOL. If this clinic has always had nonlicensed assistants and have always started out with free volunteers, you're probably SOL as well. Unless you want to be taken advantage of, you need to move on. If this clinic has never paid support staff over $12/hr even after years of service, you're also SOL. It helps to look at other job offers in your area for comparable positions and guesstimate based on that what a fair wage would be. The only way to know what they'll offer for sure is for you to state for them what you are willing/not willing to do and ask them to make a formal offer.

Honestly if I were in your situation, I'd walk away because this place sounds shady as hell. But that's up to you. How picky you can be depends a bit on how many other opportunities are open to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
man, even trained vet techs don't make $15 an hour sometimes in FL.

Also not sure if this place sounds shady or if there is some confusion in how it's being presented. OP needs to ask questions instead of being worried about it being unprofessional
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
man, even trained vet techs don't make $15 an hour sometimes in FL.

Also not sure if this place sounds shady or if there is some confusion in how it's being presented. OP needs to ask questions instead of being worried about it being unprofessional
I'm aware that Vet Techs don't have a high salary. I just meant that I am skilled and can get that salary but as a Vet Technician it's different. I don't know the range of what this clinic and other clinics pay... Wether it's minimum or more.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I guess it depends. Since you're going for a tech position and have no experience, it could be quite a while before you're flying solo. My vet assistant job had a 3 month training period. I imagine training a someone with no experience to be a tech can take considerably longer than that. The doctor may want you to watch hundreds of blood draws before you even try your first one. Same with catheter placements and other technical skills.

I also don't see why this clinic would want to pay you any more than minimum wage since you have absolutely no experience. There's nothing you can sell to them for a higher wage other than willingness to learn and a set of hands right now. Would you want to pay someone who has no clue how to do the job almost double the legal minimum? Chances are, you're going to have to work your way up in raises. You have no basis to ask for more than the minimum wage, especially since you're going for a tech position. You have no experience, you have no grounds for any negotiation whatsoever. I'd take the minimum wage if I were you and get used to being underpaid in veterinary medicine. To put things in perspective, I was working as an unlicensed tech with several years of experience and was getting $9.50 an hour. Also, I'm pretty sure the FL minimum wage is still $8.05, right? They didn't end up raising it I thought. Not a big deal, just wondering.

I believe Min is referring to your employment contract that would say "Your pay will start out at ____, then increase to ____ after your 6 month training period or when you can demonstrate you have completed your training." At least that's how I've seen things worded. You should be able to have a copy of that in addition to an employee handbook that would outline any training procedures you need to complete. This is assuming this clinic actually does all of these things...I worked at a very small clinic that had no such paperwork.

Just for future reference, every person with a job/applying for one should be very familiar with their state's labor laws. It's your responsibility to know when something illegal is happening, and you have to report that.

They didn't tell me it's minimum wage. I'm not asking for more. Someone suggest I tell them I'll accept minimum wage vs volunteering, which is better. Should I mention the minimum wage since it's probably that or not much different. I don't know what they pay.

What happens if I report it? I don't like the idea of reporting it. It's a great clinic helping animals. Should I just tell them it's illegal, although they should know right?
 

dyachei

vet robot pirate zombie
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
15+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
25,550
Reaction score
20,178
I'm aware that Vet Techs don't have a high salary. I just meant that I am skilled and can get that salary but as a Vet Technician it's different. I don't know the range of what this clinic and other clinics pay... Wether it's minimum or more.
I wouldn't expect much from a vet job. It's difficult to manage things as a vet owner and often, techs and assistants are paid less than they are worth.

I'm also not sure that reporting this will do much if anything. It's more of a grey area.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
It's not unprofessional to ask what a job pays. A business should state what the pay is either on the job announcement or during the interview - whether they hire you or not. That's an important factor that impacts a job seeker's decision.

I know but sometimes most jobs won't list. I've had interviews where they have told me the salary without asking and others that never mentioned anything about the pay during interviews and I never asked. This didn't have it posted but I have an idea about what it should be.
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
I wouldn't expect much from a vet job. It's difficult to manage things as a vet owner and often, techs and assistants are paid less than they are worth.

I'm also not sure that reporting this will do much if anything. It's more of a grey area.
I would report something but not the kind of person to report this kind of scenario..
 

FLVettrain

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
3
Yup. It's unprofessional for a business to not tell a prospective employee what their pay is going to be.

OP, just because you can earn $15/hr doing something else doesn't mean you can earn $15/hr as a vet assistant (and yes that's technically what you are even if they call you a tech because you are not licensed).

A fair wage is unfortunately based on supply and demand. They can demand to pay you as little as you are willing to take, that someone else is not willing to take. You can demand as high a pay from them as they're willing to give, but at a certain point they'll be able to hire someone more attractive with the same amount of money. Attractive as in either more experienced/better applicant or less demanding. It depends on the geographic location, as well as that particular practice culture where the sweet spot in asking wage will be. If licensed techs in your area are earning $15/hr then you're SOL. If this clinic has always had nonlicensed assistants and have always started out with free volunteers, you're probably SOL as well. Unless you want to be taken advantage of, you need to move on. If this clinic has never paid support staff over $12/hr even after years of service, you're also SOL. It helps to look at other job offers in your area for comparable positions and guesstimate based on that what a fair wage would be. The only way to know what they'll offer for sure is for you to state for them what you are willing/not willing to do and ask them to make a formal offer.

Honestly if I were in your situation, I'd walk away because this place sounds shady as hell. But that's up to you. How picky you can be depends a bit on how many other opportunities are open to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

At $15 I was referring to different jobs not in the Veterinary field. I e-mailed another exotic animal clinic and a hospital but haven't heard back.
 

DVMDream

DVMNightmare
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
39,278
Reaction score
28,822
And I started off making $5.50/hour and after 7 years was barely above $11/hour.

OP, you need to either decide to tell them you need a paying position or you need to walk away. If you want the experience, ask about shadowing. But I wouldn't be going about reporting anything. Just be respectful, tell them you need a paying job at this time and move on from there. Quit dragging out the issue.

And don't expect to make much money.
 

DVMDream

DVMNightmare
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
39,278
Reaction score
28,822
I don't want / like the Kennel position

A young High School girl at another clinic where I take my pets was new and the only helper for this one Veterinarian and she's always been a Vet Tech observing surgeries, etc.

To the first part, we don't always get what we want. If you want veterinary experience, often times it is necessary to start in the kennels and work your way up. I did it. Many others have. It isn't a big deal and if vet med is something you really want, you'll take what experience you can get.

To the second part about the high school girl, that's the clinic that vets run away from and never look back. One assistant is not enough, especially a high school kid with very little to no experience. Hell no.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top